Will Pakistan ever see a new ATG cricketer emerge?

[mominsaigol]

Now that we are mere hours away from the Pakistan vs Bangladesh test series, A thought occurred to me,

The last time Pakistan had the luxury of seeing an ATG batter retire was Younis Khan who retired from test cricket and all forms of cricket in 2017. It's suffice to say that he was one of the greatest test batsmen to grace the planet.

And while he underachieved in Whiteball, he still captained the 2009 t20 side to victory, Some of his best odi innings in whiteball also come against India and I've seen how clutch he use to be against our rival nation.

Since then Pakistan hasn't really ever had the luxury of feeling that an All time great batter is representing them.

Fakhar Zaman has played ATG innings, but his extreme inconsistency is holding him back and doesn't grant him atg status.

Besides Fakhar Zaman, No one in pakistan has given me the vibe that maybe this batter will retire an ATG. Its the same issue within the bowling department.

i was sure Shaheen Shah Afridi and Naseem Shah would retire as ATG's, but in recent times i guess that just isn't the case

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Honestly speaking not from this lot of players.

The basic reason is inconsistency in performance and poor fitness which won't allow them to prolong their careers to become ATG.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

No.. not anymore. With poor economy and children missing nutrition at early stages.. things are bleak. On top of that a totally corrupt and inefficient board which destroy's talent instead of nurturing them. No one can survive, let alone thrive with PCB. On top of that the corrupt socio political environment within Pakistan stunting growth at all levels. You mat see occasional flashes of brilliance but will soon fade away and there is no consistency.

 

[Rana]

Apparently Babar and Rizwan already are in the Legend’s category @gazza619

 

[Rana]

15 year old Ali Raza is one to look out for

 

[TheSultan]

Until some of these boys have the hunger to win, they’ll never be great in their era, never mind ATG.

Babar has tried to manufacture his greatness by hoodwinking people with his stats, but people aren’t stupid, they can see through that. The fact he hasn’t realised this yet makes him exactly what he thinks everybody else is.

Fakhar generally has the right mindset but his technical issues will stop him for reaching any sort of ATG status.

Shaheen, I was never fully convinced with him from the beginning. However, a 90-92mph shaheen was a handful. Unfortunately that loss in pace and poor recuperation from his injury has rendered him pointless. He’s still picking up some wickets based on reputation but that will go soon too.

Naseem has the right ingredients but he really needs to figure out what type of bowler he wants to be and stick to it.

 

[mominsaigol]

Until some of these boys have the hunger to win, they’ll never be great in their era, never mind ATG.

Babar has tried to manufacture his greatness by hoodwinking people with his stats, but people aren’t stupid, they can see through that. The fact he hasn’t realised this yet makes him exactly what he thinks everybody else is.

Fakhar generally has the right mindset but his technical issues will stop him for reaching any sort of ATG status.

Shaheen, I was never fully convinced with him from the beginning. However, a 90-92mph shaheen was a handful. Unfortunately that loss in pace and poor recuperation from his injury has rendered him pointless. He’s still picking up some wickets based on reputation but that will go soon too.

Naseem has the right ingredients but he really needs to figure out what type of bowler he wants to be and stick to it.

No.. not anymore. With poor economy and children missing nutrition at early stages.. things are bleak. On top of that a totally corrupt and inefficient board which destroy's talent instead of nurturing them. No one can survive, let alone thrive with PCB. On top of that the corrupt socio political environment within Pakistan stunting growth at all levels. You mat see occasional flashes of brilliance but will soon fade away and there is no consistency.

Honestly speaking not from this lot of players.

The basic reason is inconsistency in performance and poor fitness which won't allow them to prolong their careers to become ATG.

Apparently Babar and Rizwan already are in the Legend’s category @gazza619

Whats interesting to note is that the number has drastically decreased over the years.

1970-2012

1) Zaheer Abass
2) Miandad
3) Wasim Akram
4) waqar younis
5) Saqlain + Mushtaq Ahmed
6) Sarfraz Nawaz
7) Younis Khan
8) Inzimam
9) Hanif Mohammad

Amd many more. The funny thing is, The likes of Aamer sohail, Izaj Ahmed, Saleem Malik, Mohammad yousaf were not ATG's but if they batted in this era they'd all look like atg's compared to this current lot.

This shows how badly the standards have fallen, in that batters who were just okay and were considered good but not ATG's, were all miles and Mile's better then today considering chacha, and shadab is our no 5 and no 6.

Even Misbah, Afridi, Kamran Akmal, Umar Akmal, Sharjeel, Fawad Alam, Hafeez, Malik, Haris Sohail etc etc aka extremely extremely medicore players are all miles and Miles superior to Players like rizwan, Chacha, Shadab, Shan Masood, Saim Ayub, Azam Khan, Usman Khan etc etc.

 

[ElRaja]

the system is absolute rubbish, modern cricket is about professionalism and pak has none, however given how these things work, if you implemented such a system today im pretty sure you'd start seeing at least one or two generational talents in 7 or 8 years, over 15 years you could have 5 generational talents of which 1 might become an ATG.

the ecb has excellent pathways and from a population of around 1 million britpaks have two top level players in moeen and rash, and loads of borderline international quality players in rehan, shoaib, saqib, and young talents like hamza sheikh, so its not a question of lack of talent, athleticism, or natural ability.

 

[ElRaja]

Whats interesting to note is that the number has drastically decreased over the years.

1970-2012

1) Zaheer Abass
2) Miandad
3) Wasim Akram
4) waqar younis
5) Saqlain + Mushtaq Ahmed
6) Sarfraz Nawaz
7) Younis Khan
8) Inzimam
9) Hanif Mohammad

Amd many more. The funny thing is, The likes of Aamer sohail, Izaj Ahmed, Saleem Malik, Mohammad yousaf were not ATG's but if they batted in this era they'd all look like atg's compared to this current lot.

This shows how badly the standards have fallen, in that batters who were just okay and were considered good but not ATG's, were all miles and Mile's better then today considering chacha, and shadab is our no 5 and no 6.

Even Misbah, Afridi, Kamran Akmal, Umar Akmal, Sharjeel, Fawad Alam, Hafeez, Malik, Haris Sohail etc etc aka extremely extremely medicore players are all miles and Miles superior to Players like rizwan, Chacha, Shadab, Shan Masood, Saim Ayub, Azam Khan, Usman Khan etc etc.

if you actually look at the dates players made their debuts, wasim, waqar, saeed, inzi, saqlain, yousuf, younis were in a 12 year period from 88 to 00 i think. imran, zaheer and javed were 70s, and hanif was a pioneer.

the only potential atg pak players to have debuted any meaningful time after 2000 were asif and babar, and both havnt fulfilled their promise. that's 2 potential atg in 20 odd years, and no actual atg players.

 

[mominsaigol]

Apparently Babar and Rizwan already are in the Legend’s category @gazza619

Oh yeah I remember he said that Rizwan is an atg allrounder who's an outsider and hasn't achieved his full potential because he is mistreated.

Yes, we mistreated Rizwan by Letting him open when he demanded it, giving him his no 4 spot in odi when he demanded it, made him captain in psl, and made him Pakistan's frontline keeper in all 3 formats,

so much so that we didn't even bother to take any replacement keepers in wc 2023, and trusted him completely,

Gave him category A Contract

and have allowed him to run his mouth on media and twitter 24/7, with him even going so far as to Insult Arshad Nadeem by making Arshad his PFP and confusing Millions of fans on twitter that he is Arshad.

Wow what Mistreatment towards him.

 

[gazza619]

Apparently Babar and Rizwan already are in the Legend’s category @gazza619

By Pakistani current standards, they are the best we got.

 

[mominsaigol]

if you actually look at the dates players made their debuts, wasim, waqar, saeed, inzi, saqlain, yousuf, younis were in a 12 year period from 88 to 00 i think. imran, zaheer and javed were 70s, and hanif was a pioneer.

the only potential atg pak players to have debuted any meaningful time after 2000 were asif and babar, and both havnt fulfilled their promise. that's 2 potential atg in 20 odd years, and no actual atg players.

Asif the bowler or Asif Ali the batsmen? I assume you mean Bowler, and yeah Asif didn't achieve his potential cause umm? He was banned? For spot fixing? That's entirely his fault, although he was ageing even in 2010 so fair point?

Also I disagree with Babar, He was always in the accumulative realm, if Haris sohail wasn't injured with his knee injury, and you gave him no 3, he'd do a better job then bobby.

A potential ATG is Fakhar, He's played multiple actual ATG innings, Infact he's probs played the best wc innings and best chasing innings for pakistan all time.

However he's basically 90% tailender and 10% miracle one hit wonder.

Babar is more so just an accumulative batter who's consistent, but ever since his debut, he never gave you vibes of atg. Even mickey denied it and said fakhar was the X factor and bobby was just no 3 cause he was the one they trusted to bat through.

The whole king stands tall yet again nonsense was started by ramiz raja. Before the gullable got fooled, everyone just viewed Babar azam as mostly just a poor man's version of Hashim Amla lol

 

[mominsaigol]

By Pakistani current standards, they are the best we got.

I'm not gonna argue about current lot, honestly even though I disagree, It's not relevant towards this thread,

But what is relevant is you putting them in legends category so basically dubbing them as ATG's.

What were you thinking?

 

[TheSultan]

One thing that is alarming about our current era is the kamzori.

The are so physically weak. They have the advantage of the bigger bats and t20 culture and they still struggle to clear the fence. What is wrong with them.

Even the likes of Miandad and Malik who weren’t considered power hitters and hardly had the build of power houses and more touch players could hit sixes with the thinner bats.

The fast bowlers start off with natural pace and then slowly fade away like some of the Indians from the 2000-2015 era. And give these guys a red ball and the prospect of bowling 15+ overs in a day and they crumble. What’s wrong with them?

Very dheeley players. They play with limited passion, zeal and have no strength to speak of. How are they expected to reach ATG status.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Asif the bowler or Asif Ali the batsmen?

how can u even imagine Asif Ali's name in this thread lol

 

[mominsaigol]

One thing that is alarming about our current era is the kamzori.

The are so physically weak. They have the advantage of the bigger bats and t20 culture and they still struggle to clear the fence. What is wrong with them.

Even the likes of Miandad and Malik who weren’t considered power hitters and hardly had the build of power houses and more touch players could hit sixes with the thinner bats.

The fast bowlers start off with natural pace and then slowly fade away like some of the Indians from the 2000-2015 era. And give these guys a red ball and the prospect of bowling 15+ overs in a day and they crumble. What’s wrong with them?

Very dheeley players. They play with limited passion, zeal and have no strength to speak of. How are they expected to reach ATG status.

Uhh that's not really related to Power and strength.

It's a timing issue. Malik and Miandad amd yousaf all had excellent timing when trying to clear.

@Rana Observed in the video where Pies were being bowled to the entire unit and our team was miscuing said pies, However yousaf even at his current age was able to clear the fence with ease, and what was observed was how still his head was meaning he had good hand eye coordination + he had excellent footwork.

If you look at Saim Ayub, his shots are hardly if ever from the sweet spot of the bat, most of them are top edges or when he plays his legside flick, the ball is usually at the top half of the bat and not middled properly.

The issue is the current lot just doesn't practise the art of Lofted strokes so how can you clear when you do not possess the skill?

Your most marketed Batsmen aka Babar Azam is being marketed for playing his so called cover drive? Which is a grounded shot.

 

[mominsaigol]

how can u even imagine Asif Ali's name in this thread lol

Brother, I've seen threads where Misbah is taken over Inzimam, and Rizwan is apparently batting at no 4 IN AN ALL TIME PAKISTAN 11 ODI TEAM, Meaning some people think that Rizwan makes it in a team over the likes of yousaf, Younis, Inzi, Miandad and nunerous other atg middle order batters weve had over the years.

I have to be 110% sure

 

[U$ofA]

Whats interesting to note is that the number has drastically decreased over the years.

1970-2012

1) Zaheer Abass
2) Miandad
3) Wasim Akram
4) waqar younis
5) Saqlain + Mushtaq Ahmed
6) Sarfraz Nawaz
7) Younis Khan
8) Inzimam
9) Hanif Mohammad

Amd many more. The funny thing is, The likes of Aamer sohail, Izaj Ahmed, Saleem Malik, Mohammad yousaf were not ATG's but if they batted in this era they'd all look like atg's compared to this current lot.

This shows how badly the standards have fallen, in that batters who were just okay and were considered good but not ATG's, were all miles and Mile's better then today considering chacha, and shadab is our no 5 and no 6.

Even Misbah, Afridi, Kamran Akmal, Umar Akmal, Sharjeel, Fawad Alam, Hafeez, Malik, Haris Sohail etc etc aka extremely extremely medicore players are all miles and Miles superior to Players like rizwan, Chacha, Shadab, Shan Masood, Saim Ayub, Azam Khan, Usman Khan etc etc.

You will notice that the decrease in ATG coincides with Pakistan's decrease in the number of tests played. There in lies the answer. Pakistan will likely never produce a test ATG going forward. Because they will never play enough tests for the players to be considered.

You will need to look at T20's for that. There sure will be some T20 ATG's going forward. Even for that, a lot of things need to change in the back end. To start with, the economy, complete overhaul of the PCB and it's operations. To name a couple.

 

[mominsaigol]

You will notice that the decrease in ATG coincides with Pakistan's decrease in the number of tests played. There in lies the answer. Pakistan will likely never produce a test ATG going forward. Because they will never play enough tests for the players to be considered.

You will need to look at T20's for that. There sure will be some T20 ATG's going forward. Even for that, a lot of things need to change in the back end. To start with, the economy, complete overhaul of the PCB and it's operations. To name a couple.

How can their be some t20 ATG'S going forward? Our t20 team is ironically the weakest.

In odi and test we are weak but in t20 our Tail literally starts from no 3? No 3 to no 7 are all tail enders with players like Usman, Shadab at 5, Chacha at 6. And even Falhar who's downright awful at no 4 amd can't adjust any place besides opening.

I can only see potential atg bowlers in t20 because Pakistani pacers and spinners enjoy this format and love playing leagues around the world.

I don't see any batsmen on this list.

As for economy, Complete overhaul of PCB, and it's operations, it won't happen.

The situation is so bad that the educated youth that is from the middle class typically sends their children to foreign universities and then opts to get a job their rather then return to pakistan.

Almost every single person I've met in my life from pakistan all either study abroad and get a job abroad, or wish to go abroad but fail. But at the very least they try.

I've never come across a single pakistani who wishes to stay in pakistan and contribute because your system is so crap.

The government should be focused on spending money on the youth and fostering a system of entrepreneurship and having money schemes for it. Once you give infrastructure the people will do their job for you.

That's how developed countries succeed. They provide infrastructure for people to build and create and they establish friendly realtions with other foreign countries.

Pakistan neither provides the infrastructure nor does it have friendly relations with its neighbours excluding China, However China is just neutral to pakistan. They aren't exactly friends or helpers by any means.

 

[usman.sandhu]

I doubt we will, PCT fans have fallen into the habit of over-hyping mediocrity, we don't even know what an ATG is!

And our players have no hunger to work on their fitness and skills.. The gap between Pakistan cricket and world cricket is growing at an alarming pace..

Pakistan cricket is in shambles and right now it seems like no one has any desire to arrest the slide...

 

[Rana]

By Pakistani current standards, they are the best we got.

So, do you reluctantly admit Pakistan’s standards are on par with Bangladesh and Zimbabwe?

Why then do you have an issue with A team players getting a long run in the side? You said the Pakistan side isn’t a gulli mohalla team and players like Harris can’t play in it

 

[mominsaigol]

I doubt we will, PCT fans have fallen into the habit of over-hyping mediocrity, we don't even know what an ATG is!

And our players have no hunger to work on their fitness and skills.. The gap between Pakistan cricket and world cricket is growing at an alarming pace..

Pakistan cricket is in shambles and right now it seems like no one has any desire to arrest the slide...

Yeah that's the sad part. The situation is so bad, that people have invented their own made up word, called pakistani atg.

I see this term being used for people like misbah or azhar Ali or Babar or Rizwan where they say these boys are pakistani atg's.

Like what on earth is a pakistani atg? Ryan ten doeshant is a nedtherlands atg and Lamichane is a Nepali ATG by this logic.

You're either an atg in that your value will remembered or you are not. Theirs no in-between.

Even the likes of Yousaf, Saleem Malik, Aamer sohail, Ijaz Ahmed, Shahid Afridi aka players who are 100x better then our current crap lot of usman Khan, Azam Khan, Shadab, Chacha, Nawaz etc Do not fit the ATG bill.

Only players with value such as Imran Khan, wasim akram, Miandad, Saeed Anwar, YK, Zaheer abass, inzi etc fit the bill.

 

[mominsaigol]

So, do you reluctantly admit Pakistan’s standards are on par with Bangladesh and Zimbabwe?

Why then do you have an issue with A team players getting a long run in the side? You said the Pakistan side isn’t a gulli mohalla team and players like Harris can’t play in it

Too much overkill bro, or for better term "Hit the nail right on the head"

But yeah in all seriousness @gazza619 if you guys make the argument that Babar and rizwan are the best we have and that Pakistan's standards are Zimbabwe level(which tbf after losing to NZ c team 2x, Ireland on school boy pitches and USA, they are),

Why do you have an issue with haris or anyone else getting long runs?

Teams like Zimbabwe don't give a kahoot who plays in their team, they haven't since brendon Taylor left because they know full well they ain't capable of competing so they play for fun?

Why are you guys trying to be competitive if the standards have fallen below mediocrity?

 

[Rana]

Too much overkill bro, or for better term "Hit the nail right on the head"

But yeah in all seriousness @gazza619 if you guys make the argument that Babar and rizwan are the best we have and that Pakistan's standards are Zimbabwe level(which tbf after losing to NZ c team 2x, Ireland on school boy pitches and USA, they are),

Why do you have an issue with haris or anyone else getting long runs?

Teams like Zimbabwe don't give a kahoot who plays in their team, they haven't since brendon Taylor left because they know full well they ain't capable of competing so they play for fun?

Why are you guys trying to be competitive if the standards have fallen below mediocrity?

I would assume that he thinks Pakistan cricket team is the gulli Mohalla side in which only players like Babar and Rizwan have a birthright to feature in without question. Maybe he can answer that? He probably won’t and will look to come up with some dumb response like ‘but you want AA as captain’.

 

[TheSultan]

Uhh that's not really related to Power and strength.

It's a timing issue. Malik and Miandad amd yousaf all had excellent timing when trying to clear.

@Rana Observed in the video where Pies were being bowled to the entire unit and our team was miscuing said pies, However yousaf even at his current age was able to clear the fence with ease, and what was observed was how still his head was meaning he had good hand eye coordination + he had excellent footwork.

If you look at Saim Ayub, his shots are hardly if ever from the sweet spot of the bat, most of them are top edges or when he plays his legside flick, the ball is usually at the top half of the bat and not middled properly.

The issue is the current lot just doesn't practise the art of Lofted strokes so how can you clear when you do not possess the skill?

Your most marketed Batsmen aka Babar Azam is being marketed for playing his so called cover drive? Which is a grounded shot.

Of course I agree that there is a skill gap there, but surely someone somewhere in the team can muscle a few. There are plenty of players in world cricket who do not possess the timing of some of the aforementioned, but they can just bludgeon the ball. Mishits are going for 6.

And even if we take that aside, surely someone, somewhere should be able to work at their game to meet the demands of modern cricket ie some of the things you mentioned. If they don’t even have the awareness of that, or the willingness, then there can be no talk of greatness.

I still maintain either way our players are weaklings - they are just wishy washy sportsmen if you can even call
them that

 

[Rana]

@mominsaigol the other thing is, what he claims is basically wrong.

For Pakistan standards, Pakistan’s best white ball cricketers are Fakhar Zaman, Imad Wasim (T20) and Mohammad Amir (T20). There is genuinely no denying this, they are Pakistan’s strongest white ball players who know how to deliver the right kind of performance you need to compete with the big dogs. Imad Wasim is still Pakistan’s best slow bowler in white ball cricket. Go ahead and challenge me on this claim. Amir is still Pakistan’s best white ball pacer, go ahead and prove me wrong! Fakhar Zaman, don’t need to say anything about him. The only guy capable of scoring double tons in ODI cricket for Pakistan. He has scored plenty of big daddy hundreds in ODI against the best teams, in their conditions too.

Pakistan’s best Test cricketers…well tbf Rizwan isn’t the worst in this regard. He’s an alright Test keeper/batsman. But some would argue that Saud Shakeel, Salman Ali Agha and Nauman Ali might actually be your proper players. Babar isn’t too bad, hasn’t been doing great recently. It’s not right to say Babar and Rizwan are the best of the lot. There are plenty of decent performers lol

 

[Buffet]

Last ATG from Pakistan debuted in 80s.

IK - 1971
Miandad - 1975
Wasim - 1984
Waqar - 1989

There were some player with potential but did not have a career to get into ATG league. Akhtar was pretty good but played very little. YK was very good in test but horrible in ODI so not an ATG. Babar is just not there to be in contention. YK played so many gun kncoks to pull his team but I hardly recall Babar taking a lead in doing it. In fact, some oher batsmen dominate the match when Babar has scored some runs. His game is horrible agaisnt spin.

I think playing county cricket helped pakistani players to polish their games. Now, county takes very few players so Pakistan needs to get better in domestic front. Not even ATG is needed, but you need players who who drags his team forward in tough situations by playing some blinders like KP. Just below ATG level will do but Pakistan has been missing such players. Some posters hype Babar, but come on, he is 30 years old with one test ton outside Pakistan.

In 90s, Pakistan had some not so consistent but very good players in team. Having such players would be a start.

 

[mominsaigol]

Of course I agree that there is a skill gap there, but surely someone somewhere in the team can muscle a few. There are plenty of players in world cricket who do not possess the timing of some of the aforementioned, but they can just bludgeon the ball. Mishits are going for 6.

And even if we take that aside, surely someone, somewhere should be able to work at their game to meet the demands of modern cricket ie some of the things you mentioned. If they don’t even have the awareness of that, or the willingness, then there can be no talk of greatness.

I still maintain either way our players are weaklings - they are just wishy washy sportsmen if you can even call
them that

I haven't come across many that mishit and it goes for a 6.

Afridi, Gayle, Pollard? Just a few, mostly people from West Indies.

As for the rest, they may not have timed it perfectly but it is timed, a Mis-hit is something totally different my dude. Eve Travis head and Warner can't mis Hit it for a 6 lol.

Players like Kohli are actually alot weaker them players like Fakhar. Fakhar was military at one point, Whereas while Kohli is super fit and works out, He isn't really muscular, his vegan only diet has clearly held him back from developing that aussie level power but he can clear the boundary with ease.

I do agree that alot of our players like rizwan, Babar, Usman Khan, Irfan Khan niazi are weak as crap, But a player like chacha has more power then someone like kohli, or even quinton de kock for that matter

Chacha has pathani strength and would beat these guys in an arm wrestling match or a bench press competition.

It's just it's clearly a skill issue and why he won't ever reach the levels of qdk in six hitting, I lean what can you do when you can't even hit a full toss for a six, Something that even Yuvi in 2012 who at that time looked anorexic because he was dealing with cancer and clearly was on his death bed, Even that version of Yuvi could dispatch full tosses for a 6

So again skill issue amd lack of practise for lofted strokes, in some cases like babar and rizwan, no practise at all

 

[mominsaigol]

Last ATG from Pakistan debuted in 80s.

IK - 1971
Miandad - 1975
Wasim - 1984
Waqar - 1989

There were some player with potential but did not have a career to get into ATG league. Akhtar was pretty good but played very little. YK was very good in test but horrible in ODI so not an ATG. Babar is just not there to be in contention. YK played so many gun kncoks to pull his team but I hardly recall Babar taking a lead in doing it. In fact, some oher batsmen dominate the match when Babar has scored some runs. His game is horrible agaisnt spin.

I think playing county cricket helped pakistani players to polish their games. Now, county takes very few players so Pakistan needs to get better in domestic front. Not even ATG is needed, but you need players who who drags his team forward in tough situations by playing some blinders like KP. Just below ATG level will do but Pakistan has been missing such players. Some posters hype Babar, but come on, he is 30 years old with one test ton outside Pakistan.

In 90s, Pakistan had some not so consistent but very good players in team. Having such players would be a start.

YK is an atg. Their are different tiers of ATG.

Both David Warner and Ricky Pointing are ATG's but obviously pointing is in a much much higher tier belonging in the class of viv, Sachin etc and often hailed as the 2nd greatest aussie player of all time 2nd only to bradman.

YK cemented atg status by being the best test batter for pakistan all time, being the best captain in t20 and even though he underachived in odi he was gun againat india and the 2000's bikaterals were won due to him and inzi.

The players you mentioned like wasim and waqar are in the upper echelons of ATG, aka the very best of the best, it doesn't detract someone else from being in an atg tier though.

 

[mominsaigol]

@mominsaigol the other thing is, what he claims is basically wrong.

For Pakistan standards, Pakistan’s best white ball cricketers are Fakhar Zaman, Imad Wasim (T20) and Mohammad Amir (T20). There is genuinely no denying this, they are Pakistan’s strongest white ball players who know how to deliver the right kind of performance you need to compete with the big dogs. Imad Wasim is still Pakistan’s best slow bowler in white ball cricket. Go ahead and challenge me on this claim. Amir is still Pakistan’s best white ball pacer, go ahead and prove me wrong! Fakhar Zaman, don’t need to say anything about him. The only guy capable of scoring double tons in ODI cricket for Pakistan. He has scored plenty of big daddy hundreds in ODI against the best teams, in their conditions too.

Pakistan’s best Test cricketers…well tbf Rizwan isn’t the worst in this regard. He’s an alright Test keeper/batsman. But some would argue that Saud Shakeel, Salman Ali Agha and Nauman Ali might actually be your proper players. Babar isn’t too bad, hasn’t been doing great recently. It’s not right to say Babar and Rizwan are the best of the lot. There are plenty of decent performers lol

Fakhar zaman is easily Pakistan's best WB batter.

No one since YK(in test) has come anywhere close to playing ATG knocks besides Fakhar and his achievements include

1) Probs top 5 greatest ever chase score from a pakistani batter all time 193, Although overall razzaq and Inzi in 1992 was superior since inzi had to chase 100 of 12 when he came on and Razzaq was in a tough spot.

2) Best wc 100 from any pakistani batter no question.

3) Highest score from any pakistani batter.

4) Was the one who cemented no 1 t20 rank for pakistan by defeating A Team Australia with 91 of 46, totally dismantling stark and Zampa.

5) Is basically NZ's worst nightmare in odi

6) Dismantled India in an all important CT final

But again as I said, these are the same people who think Misbah > Inzi because Misbah was more consistent.

What these people don't understand is, that comfort zone batters can't win you games because they play for themselves and not according to requirements.

That's why Mohali happened, Because even though RR was a manageable 5.5 when Misbah came in, Misbah ain't ever gonna keep that. He'll still go for his customary

2 of 10, then 7 of 20, then 16 of 30, them 22 of 40, then 30 of 55, then 40 of 70, then 50 of 83.

By the time he's reached it RR is 11 and the other batters have been falling like flies because their forced to attack toncover for this moron.

Rizwan amd Chacha were the same in 2022 Asia cup, rr was a manageable 8 with over 18 overs left to bat and 8 wickets in hand, But chacha will do his customary 5 of 15 and then catching up to a run a ball 30 and getting out, with rizwan doing his customary 50 to 60 of 42 to 50 balls and then getting out.

Urgency and playing according to the situation is something these comfort zone batters cannot do

 

[Buffet]

YK is an atg. Their are different tiers of ATG.

Both David Warner and Ricky Pointing are ATG's but obviously pointing is in a much much higher tier belonging in the class of viv, Sachin etc and often hailed as the 2nd greatest aussie player of all time 2nd only to bradman.

YK cemented atg status by being the best test batter for pakistan all time, being the best captain in t20 and even though he underachived in odi he was gun againat india and the 2000's bikaterals were won due to him and inzi.

The players you mentioned like wasim and waqar are in the upper echelons of ATG, aka the very best of the best, it doesn't detract someone else from being in an atg tier though.

I think it's fine if you see him as an ATG. I personally don't see anyone as an ATG in mutiple format era unless player is great in one and good in another. Anyway, YK was very gritty player and always put very price on his wicket. A top class test batsman. It does not matter if I see him in in ATG bracket, he was a top class test player.

In context of this thread, I don't think Pakistan needs even ATG players, team needs some very good players who can play good cricket according to situation. As you corectly pointed out that the players who can't adapt and always play the same way, irrespective of match situation, are not going to help the team.

 

[mominsaigol]

I think it's fine if you see him as an ATG. I personally don't see anyone as an ATG in mutiple format era unless player is great in one and good in another. Anyway, YK was very gritty player and always put very price on his wicket. A top class test batsman. It does not matter if I see him in in ATG bracket, he was a top class test player.

In context of this thread, I don't think Pakistan needs even ATG players, team needs some very good players who can play good cricket according to situation. As you corectly pointed out that the players who can't adapt and always play the same way, irrespective of match situation, are not going to help the team.

This is going to be long so apologises.
That's fair and I respect your opinion. I feel I should fully explain my viewpoint.

For me to be an ATG BATTER you need to be valuable + consistent.

Someone like Kohli isn't just a random stat padder. He provides value aka being india's greatest chaser or even when batting first, he is fully aware of the pitch, conditions and what needs to be done and what pace he must play (Talking about prime kohli, rn he's aged and not the same ofcourse)

For me the reason pakistan will never get another atg is simply because of mentality.

Want to know why Babar will never be on par with Kohli? It's not because Kohli is naturally more gifted, kohli didn't fall from the sky, he's human like the rest of us.

It's because Kohli saw himself as a chubby failure, and since then he became vegan, Become super fit, Followed a routine which he follows even now, and every single game he made sure to improve. He use to suck at playing outswing and inswing early on in his career, However he improved, he figured it out and hence he now takes his usual 2 steps forwards and cross bats to nullify inswing or takes 2 steps to the right to give himself leeway to play the outswing on the offside.

He was always focused on improving day by day be it sr, Or game awareness or reading spin or genuinely whatever.

Players like babar and Imam and rizwan just don't have that, their comfort zone players. How many times has babar been told to improve his sr, his spin play and his game winning and awareness abilities by fans? And how many times has he responded with some nonsense such as " Well I can't hit 4's all the time, or I am a t20 anchorer, when fakhar bats the game changes"

same with Imam with responses like " I hit a century abh chup or I'm automatic selection" Its been 6 years and imam still cant play the short ball or develop any boundary scoring shots.

That's the difference.

As for Fakhar he has the will to succeed and the right attitude but unlike Kohli he isn't given a suitable environment to do so, Since he's usually shoved aside for Misbah buddies or someone like shan masood is made captain due to nepo factor etc.

During the 1990's all the players from then use to back each other, look to improve and play for the country however even then it faded away.

Saeed Anwar was the ultimate opener but after his daughters death he lost interest, YK was a beast in test but he just wasn't interested in whiteball all that much so didn't take it seriously, even his fielding was sloppy in whiteball despite him being one the best fielders in red ball.

Inzi lost his fitness and didn't care post 2003.

The attitude of the current lot is the worst of all however.

That's really all that their is, These guys just don't have the mentality to improve like Warner, Kohli, Rohit(who even after losing fitness and reactions worked hard to adjust his game and learn the rules of Attacking in PP and actually take the responsibility for captaining his country)

Glenn Maxwell scored a 200 against due to mentality and luck and his experience over 10+ years.

Pakistani players just do not have that ability, which is a shame because in recent times even some afghani players have tried to get put of their comfort zone.

 

[mominsaigol]

Fakhar zaman is easily Pakistan's best WB batter.

No one since YK(in test) has come anywhere close to playing ATG knocks besides Fakhar and his achievements include

1) Probs top 5 greatest ever chase score from a pakistani batter all time 193, Although overall razzaq and Inzi in 1992 was superior since inzi had to chase 100 of 12 when he came on and Razzaq was in a tough spot.

2) Best wc 100 from any pakistani batter no question.

3) Highest score from any pakistani batter.

4) Was the one who cemented no 1 t20 rank for pakistan by defeating A Team Australia with 91 of 46, totally dismantling stark and Zampa.

5) Is basically NZ's worst nightmare in odi

6) Dismantled India in an all important CT final

But again as I said, these are the same people who think Misbah > Inzi because Misbah was more consistent.

What these people don't understand is, that comfort zone batters can't win you games because they play for themselves and not according to requirements.

That's why Mohali happened, Because even though RR was a manageable 5.5 when Misbah came in, Misbah ain't ever gonna keep that. He'll still go for his customary

2 of 10, then 7 of 20, then 16 of 30, them 22 of 40, then 30 of 55, then 40 of 70, then 50 of 83.

By the time he's reached it RR is 11 and the other batters have been falling like flies because their forced to attack toncover for this moron.

Rizwan amd Chacha were the same in 2022 Asia cup, rr was a manageable 8 with over 18 overs left to bat and 8 wickets in hand, But chacha will do his customary 5 of 15 and then catching up to a run a ball 30 and getting out, with rizwan doing his customary 50 to 60 of 42 to 50 balls and then getting out.

Urgency and playing according to the situation is something these comfort zone batters cannot do

@Rana Sorry didn't read the part about imad and amir.

For Imad I agree he's the best slow arm bowler for pakistan, however I think salman Ali Agha has a higher ceiling then imad does but we need to wait and see how agha's career pans out.

But Imad > Nawaz, Usama and Shadab any day, it's a shame that Misbah fandom is against any Decsion or action taken against babar and rizwan lol.

As for Amir, I disagree here. He's our best bowler from 2009 all the way till 2017.

He's kinda a has been now. Naseem is superior to him atm, although it's a shame because it just shows how far we have fallen is naseem is pakistan's benchmark yikes.

 

[Buffet]

This is going to be long so apologises.
That's fair and I respect your opinion. I feel I should fully explain my viewpoint.

For me to be an ATG BATTER you need to be valuable + consistent.

Someone like Kohli isn't just a random stat padder. He provides value aka being india's greatest chaser or even when batting first, he is fully aware of the pitch, conditions and what needs to be done and what pace he must play (Talking about prime kohli, rn he's aged and not the same ofcourse)

For me the reason pakistan will never get another atg is simply because of mentality.

Want to know why Babar will never be on par with Kohli? It's not because Kohli is naturally more gifted, kohli didn't fall from the sky, he's human like the rest of us.

It's because Kohli saw himself as a chubby failure, and since then he became vegan, Become super fit, Followed a routine which he follows even now, and every single game he made sure to improve. He use to suck at playing outswing and inswing early on in his career, However he improved, he figured it out and hence he now takes his usual 2 steps forwards and cross bats to nullify inswing or takes 2 steps to the right to give himself leeway to play the outswing on the offside.

He was always focused on improving day by day be it sr, Or game awareness or reading spin or genuinely whatever.

Players like babar and Imam and rizwan just don't have that, their comfort zone players. How many times has babar been told to improve his sr, his spin play and his game winning and awareness abilities by fans? And how many times has he responded with some nonsense such as " Well I can't hit 4's all the time, or I am a t20 anchorer, when fakhar bats the game changes"

same with Imam with responses like " I hit a century abh chup or I'm automatic selection" Its been 6 years and imam still cant play the short ball or develop any boundary scoring shots.

That's the difference.

As for Fakhar he has the will to succeed and the right attitude but unlike Kohli he isn't given a suitable environment to do so, Since he's usually shoved aside for Misbah buddies or someone like shan masood is made captain due to nepo factor etc.

During the 1990's all the players from then use to back each other, look to improve and play for the country however even then it faded away.

Saeed Anwar was the ultimate opener but after his daughters death he lost interest, YK was a beast in test but he just wasn't interested in whiteball all that much so didn't take it seriously, even his fielding was sloppy in whiteball despite him being one the best fielders in red ball.

Inzi lost his fitness and didn't care post 2003.

The attitude of the current lot is the worst of all however.

That's really all that their is, These guys just don't have the mentality to improve like Warner, Kohli, Rohit(who even after losing fitness and reactions worked hard to adjust his game and learn the rules of Attacking in PP and actually take the responsibility for captaining his country)

Glenn Maxwell scored a 200 against due to mentality and luck and his experience over 10+ years.

Pakistani players just do not have that ability, which is a shame because in recent times even some afghani players have tried to get put of their comfort zone.

It can all change if some one from Pakistani makes it big in international stage due to top class fitness and improving the game. It may set the example for others. I am not as pessimistic as many posters here.

I also think that having a good domestic set up may throw more world class players and if competition is higher then some players will try to raise the bar and improve. I don't follow Pakistani domestic so not familiar with names, but I find it surprising that in random T20/ODI games Pakistan plays pretty much full strength team. That may be time to give a long rope to new players. I mean not just 2-3 games. They should be backed for 15-20 games and play at fixed position. I find no full time spinner very puzzling for Pakistan. Yes, wickets are flatter there, but Pakistan always had some good spinners.

It's failure of set up in my opinion. Not saying that ATG players will emerge easily but I feel system in place is not set up to bring the best out of Pakistani top 30-40 players. Also due to lack of good system the top 30-40 may be the actual top 30-40. I was extremely dissapointed to see Pakistan intentionally making roads agaisnt Eng/Aus in home tests due to being afraid of losing. I think Rameez was the top man at that time. He talks all the good stuff as commentator but he was the main person in PCB back then. I suspect main reason was his big push to inflate Babar's stature by boosting his average, but fans are not that stupid. Everyone will simply look at how you play at different times and how you do outside Pakistan.

Pakistan's population is large and cricket is main sports so I think issue is simply the set up. Even posters here knows many problems and share it time to time. Despite all issues, Pakistan has decent amount of funding for cricket but my guess will be money not being used efficiently. It's just my guess because I am not familair with Pakistani domestic set up.

Once domestic set up is run professioanlly, things will get better with time. I see no reason for Pakistani not producing ATG in future. Mentality of players will change once set up is run differently.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Not seeing anyone coming in the next decade or so. Pakistan's future is also not looking good with eh upcoming players and hacks like Haseebullah, haris, Tayyab Tahir who failed against club-level teams as well, also include Usman Khan in the list.

ATG is a big ask. Maybe we can say that good players who can play some notable games in their career. In this way, Fakhar Zaman is way ahead of many.

 

[mominsaigol]

Not seeing anyone coming in the next decade or so. Pakistan's future is also not looking good with eh upcoming players and hacks like Haseebullah, haris, Tayyab Tahir who failed against club-level teams as well, also include Usman Khan in the list.

ATG is a big ask. Maybe we can say that good players who can play some notable games in their career. In this way, Fakhar Zaman is way ahead of many.

May my OP set the bar too high. I think anyone reading this can also wonder if we will get players like Fakhar Zaman or Aamer sohail or Izaj Ahmed or Saleem malik etc etc again.

Aka not ATG players but solid players who are proper cricketers and turn the team into a competent cricket force.

I mean if you logically look at things, England from 2017 to 2019, besides Butler none of their players are ATG.

Roy and Hales/Bairstow ain't Atg, Joe Root is not an atg for whiteball only for Test, Morgan can be considered an atg captain but defo not an atg player, stokes is not an atg

Infact alot of their players like Phil Salt, James vince are not ATG either

But they all get the job done and are brilliant cricketers in their own right.

Pakistan use to have such players, ijaz Ahmed, Aamer sohail, Yousaf are not ATG but they were fine batters in their own right.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Saim Ayub is the truth.
He is the one who can be the next Rizwan for Pakistan.

 

[gazza619]

@Rana @mominsaigol , I have absolutely no issue in giving other players a long rope but they need to perform in domestic cricket and on A tours first. We can’t give new guys a chance just for the sake of if. You put garbage in, you will get garbage out results. We already saw the embarrassment which Azam Khan has caused to the beautiful game of cricket.

Babar Azam & M Rizwan are easily the best performers for Pakistan in the last 5 years, and we must truly respect that!

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Naseem Shah could be one

 

[LordJames]

Not unless there is a fundamental change in Pakistani society and not just PCB.

Sports has moved beyond individual talent and there is a lot of science involved in excellence, we are still in the dark ages of looking at "Talent Hunts" and a few good showings at PSL.

The Pakistani society as a whole keeps on looking at Messiahs and Magic but India has shown that a good professional and dedicated program (like MRF Pace Academy) can deliver excellent Pacers when the program is sustained for a few years with science and proper management.

Didn't the world used to mock India & their pacers just 2 decades ago.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Yes, we are long overdue. PCB has always been badly run and we still managed to produce ATGs in the past.

A generational talent will emerge within the next 12 months.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Naseem Shah could be one

if he remains fit in future which i dont think so

 

[mominsaigol]

@Rana @mominsaigol , I have absolutely no issue in giving other players a long rope but they need to perform in domestic cricket and on A tours first. We can’t give new guys a chance just for the sake of if. You put garbage in, you will get garbage out results. We already saw the embarrassment which Azam Khan has caused to the beautiful game of cricket.

Babar Azam & M Rizwan are easily the best performers for Pakistan in the last 5 years, and we must truly respect that!

Babar 2022 averaged 17 and sr below 100 in both asia cup and world cup

Babar 2023 averaged 40 sr 80, Sounds good until you realise the entire team did better then he did with the exception of Imam in stats. Saud and chacha dis worse in avg but higher in sr and understand as they bat at 5 and 6 and not 3.

Babar 2024, again top scorer sure due to opening, top avg sure. Crapola sr.

Babar test for past 2 years avg of 23

Babar in 2023 outperformed by saud, Agha, Abdullah, Rizwan and Fakhar.

Babar in 2022 outperformed by everyone including HARIS LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Bas karo bhai bas karo

 

[shaz619]

Fakhar Zaman will get there, I personally rate him as a top 10 all time ODI batter, it’s his misfortune that he is playing for Pakistan, but despite the odds he delivers in 90% of crunch situations and that’s on top of the high of CT 17 so early in his career. I think he frustrates a lot of people with the inconsistency now, but his perception will age better.

Shaheen I think might finish as a Pakistani great potentially, surely he should get 200+ wickets in both Tests and ODI’s…..his bowling IQ and attitude have regressed recently, though the latter has a lot to do with the backstage shenanigans.

Naseem still has time and plays with passion, but I guess the hype has worn down.

Abrar Ahmed could be that guy, but is being asked to take a back seat. Maybe be should get either a Lankan or Bangladeshi passport so he can get the much needed Phull Sapport.

 

[shaz619]

I think it's fine if you see him as an ATG. I personally don't see anyone as an ATG in mutiple format era unless player is great in one and good in another. Anyway, YK was very gritty player and always put very price on his wicket. A top class test batsman. It does not matter if I see him in in ATG bracket, he was a top class test player.

In context of this thread, I don't think Pakistan needs even ATG players, team needs some very good players who can play good cricket according to situation. As you corectly pointed out that the players who can't adapt and always play the same way, irrespective of match situation, are not going to help the team.

You’re entitled to that view but when you look at the sort of players and especially those pushed as potential ATG’s who perform for Pak now, then Younis Khan’s legend just grows, he is severely missed by the side, not so much by the neighbours; but when you look at how much they’ve lost since he retired, that’s vindication of his greatness imo.

 

[mominsaigol]

You’re entitled to that view but when you look at the sort of players and especially those pushed as potential ATG’s who perform for Pak now, then Younis Khan’s legend just grows, he is severely missed by the side, not so much by the neighbours; but when you look at how much they’ve lost since he retired, that’s vindication of his greatness imo.

People who give credit to Misbah forget that it was YK in UAE who turned every single game from a draw into a win.

I'm not taking credit away from Misbah, Test os the one format I don't mind him in, Even during his horrible coaching stint he managed to regain wins in UAE with azhar Ali.

But azhar Ali and Misbah and Asad Shafiq were not doing anyone favours with 100 of 300 balls. It was only YK going to town on every Side that showed up on uae

 

[shaz619]

People who give credit to Misbah forget that it was YK in UAE who turned every single game from a draw into a win.

I'm not taking credit away from Misbah, Test os the one format I don't mind him in, Even during his horrible coaching stint he managed to regain wins in UAE with azhar Ali.

But azhar Ali and Misbah and Asad Shafiq were not doing anyone favours with 100 of 300 balls. It was only YK going to town on every Side that showed up on uae

When he got going man was a nightmare for the opposition, the chewing of gum, the ice in his veins during the 90’s or 190’s and just that will / drive to go to town for Pak’s success home/away, it was a sight to behold. YK went through a great deal of adversity in his personal life and I think that also helped mould him. And that sense of authentic pride and passion for his country, it’s so fake now from these guys twerking on twitter etc I agree, Misbah owes him everything, especially the reputation which he does his best to damage now

 

[mominsaigol]

When he got going man was a nightmare for the opposition, the chewing of gum, the ice in his veins during the 90’s or 190’s and just that will / drive to go to town for Pak’s success home/away, it was a sight to behold. YK went through a great deal of adversity in his personal life and I think that also helped mould him. And that sense of authentic pride and passion for his country, it’s so fake now from these guys twerking on twitter etc I agree, Misbah owes him everything, especially the reputation which he does his best to damage now

Misbah was extremely lucky he had YK. Without YK, many top test sides would have either beaten Misbah or Drawn.

The 2 test cricketers who were a revelation were sarfi and YK.

YK single handidely won games however sarfraz's 100 againat Australia in 2014 and his 96 knock against sri lanka in that 4 day test match saved the game.

Asad Shafiq was only going for a draw against sri lanka and the Australia game would have also been a draw.

With the exception of Misbah's fastest test century and Azhar's triple century, Most of their centuries came off 300 balls with these 2 numbnuts batting for 2.5 days.

They aimed for draws, As I said we are very very lucky to find these 2 who turned games from a draw into a win.

This is why I laugh when people on this forumn have told me that Babar in the middle order and rizwan in the lower order are better thrn YK and Sarfi in test especially during 2014-2016 era.

Hahahahahahahaha nice joke

 

[Ab Fan]

Younis is a Pakistani great and not ATG. His record outside Asia is mediocre, averaging 39 in SWENA.

Pakistan have produced 4 ATG cricketers in their history:-

Top tier - Imran, Wasim
Lowe tier - Miandad, Waqar

 

[BouncerGuy]

If shaheen plays for Pakistan and not for personal gains, he could be one of the top guys who can be ATG in the future but atm he is busy in lobbying and showing the worst attitude on the field.

 

[mominsaigol]

If shaheen plays for Pakistan and not for personal gains, he could be one of the top guys who can be ATG in the future but atm he is busy in lobbying and showing the worst attitude on the field.

Thank God everyone has not completly lost it.

Every rizwam thread has been bumped and I was sure he'd get mentioned here.

Shukar, one thread that's Rizzu free

 

[Bhaijaan]

Saim, Saud from batting - Guaranteed future ATGs

 

[kron]

People who give credit to Misbah forget that it was YK in UAE who turned every single game from a draw into a win.

I'm not taking credit away from Misbah, Test os the one format I don't mind him in, Even during his horrible coaching stint he managed to regain wins in UAE with azhar Ali.

But azhar Ali and Misbah and Asad Shafiq were not doing anyone favours with 100 of 300 balls. It was only YK going to town on every Side that showed up on uae

Younis khan is one of the best ever. No doubt.

Misbah is underrated in tests. He got Pakistan to number 1 in tests. He made them strong at home. Competed in England and nz. struggled in aus and SA but atleast his teams were more competitive.

 

[mominsaigol]

Younis khan is one of the best ever. No doubt.

Misbah is underrated in tests. He got Pakistan to number 1 in tests. He made them strong at home. Competed in England and nz. struggled in aus and SA but atleast his teams were more competitive.

He is underrated but he had YK which is a massive advantage.

People have no clue how good YK was in test.

 

[kron]

He is underrated but he had YK which is a massive advantage.

People have no clue how good YK was in test.

Younis khan is like the Pakistani version of dravid.

 

[sweep_shot]

Babar may end up being the best Pakistani batter of all time. He already has almost 4000 Test runs and almost 6000 ODI runs. He is not even 30.

 

[mominsaigol]

Younis khan is like the Pakistani version of dravid.

He's superior. Dravid was a wall. YK single handidely won games with a much crappier squad, Dravid batted with atg

 

[sweep_shot]

Babar may end up being the best Pakistani batter of all time. He already has almost 4000 Test runs and almost 6000 ODI runs. He is not even 30.

I meant in term of statistics.

Best Pakistani batters are obviously Younis Khan, Javed Miandad, Inzamam, Saeed Anwar, Hanif Muhammad, and Zaheer Abbas.

 

[Bhaijaan]

He's superior. Dravid was a wall. YK single handidely won games with a much crappier squad, Dravid batted with atg

Dravid was much better than Younis in tests as well as ODIs.

 

[Kroll]

Apparently Babar and Rizwan already are in the Legend’s category @gazza619

He saw the light after bigging up Iftimania, there's hope yet.

 

[Kroll]

The way the game is played now, Pak cricket has been left behind. Can't produce ATG's in that environment.

 

[offstump]

Pakistan plays tons of test cricket this season. We might see someone emerge, Saud seems the most likely to cement himself as a possible middle order bed rock.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Rizwan is slowly becoming an ATG wicket keeper batter. He has already left behind Sarfraz in this format - who was Pakistan's best ever WK Batter before Rizwan.

 

[Hitman]

Dravid was much better than Younis in tests as well as ODIs.

UAE Khan averages less than 40 outside Asia.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

He's superior. Dravid was a wall. YK single handidely won games with a much crappier squad, Dravid batted with atg

That's wrong
There is a mountain of difference between their away performances.
But let's leave the personal stats away for some time

There was a time when Younis batted with Mohd Yousuf (avg 52), Inzamam Ul haq (avg 49) and that was easily Pakistans greatest ever batting line-up

At that time he always looked inferior to both Inzi and Yousuf, you can check their records if you don't believe me.

This assumption of Khan being better because he didn't have atgs is a myth coz he did have a great support at one time but his performance wasn't better.

 

[jnaveen1980]

ATG (actor) Rizwan

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Saim, Saud from batting - Guaranteed future ATGs

Well, not sure about Saim but yeah Saud Shakeel will surely end up as one of the greats in Test cricket for Pakistan.

 

[Kianig89]

ATG is a forgone story, but one cannot look beyond RizBar as best players for Pakistan during last decade and half.

 

[Buffet]

That's wrong
There is a mountain of difference between their away performances.
But let's leave the personal stats away for some time

There was a time when Younis batted with Mohd Yousuf (avg 52), Inzamam Ul haq (avg 49) and that was easily Pakistans greatest ever batting line-up

At that time he always looked inferior to both Inzi and Yousuf, you can check their records if you don't believe me.

This assumption of Khan being better because he didn't have atgs is a myth coz he did have a great support at one time but his performance wasn't better.

YK was very gritty batsman and put a high price on his wickets, but his game was not really suitable for outside Asia.

YK did very well when playing alongside MoYo/Inzzi in Asia, but outside Asia performance was poor when playing alongside MoYo/Inzzi.

Anyway, a top class batsman for me because he maximized his game in Asia and always put a very high price on his wicket.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Dravid was much better than Younis in tests as well as ODIs.

In ODIs yes Dravid was better but in Test YK stands equal to dravid

 

[mominsaigol]

Dravid was much better than Younis in tests as well as ODIs.

In odi yes, Test hell no

 

[Cricket Warrior]

In odi yes, Test hell no

YK batting average is 31 in ODIs.. and in Test more than 52!

 

[usman.sandhu]

If shaheen plays for Pakistan and not for personal gains, he could be one of the top guys who can be ATG in the future but atm he is busy in lobbying and showing the worst attitude on the field.

Have you seen Shaheen's performances in the 2023 ODI World Cup and 2024 T20 World Cup? He got smashed by literally everyone, dispatched to all parts of the ground...

Surely he cannot be an ATG..

 

[Buffet]

In ODIs yes Dravid was better but in Test YK stands equal to dravid

YK was king of asia but outside asia not so much. Dravid was a top performer outside Asia and even then he had issues in SA. Not the only reason but one of the reasons Dravid gets rated below SRT.

Now if it's only in Asia then YK was a much better performer. Take a look at Asia vs outside Asia.


Outside Asia:



In Asia:

 

[Buffet]

Have you seen Shaheen's performances in the 2023 ODI World Cup and 2024 T20 World Cup? He got smashed by literally everyone, dispatched to all parts of the ground...

Surely he cannot be an ATG..

Bolwers can improve so getting smashed in 2 WC is not the end.

Having said that, I agree with you that he does not look like having ATG potential based on what he has done so far. Normally, players with ATG potential do well in tough away series to change games and get noticed early in their career. I don't recall anyone except IK, who was ordinary bowler in early career, but turned out to be an ATG bowler.

 

[mominsaigol]

Bolwers can improve so getting smashed in 2 WC is not the end.

Having said that, I agree with you that he does not look like having ATG potential based on what he has done so far. Normally, players with ATG potential do well in tough away series to change games and get noticed early in their career. I don't recall anyone except IK, who was ordinary bowler in early career, but turned out to be an ATG bowler.

Bowlers can get smashed yes, however shaheen even in his prime wasn't as great as people thought he was.

He got belted by Australia In 2019, Belted by Dhawan in 2019 etc etc.

In his prime, he had that one killer inswing early on and rohit sharma in particular struggled big time against that.

However excluding that alot of batters like kohli never struggled and almost every Tom dick and Harry belted him after those 3 to 4 overs were up excluding minnows like Bangladesh.

He was a God awful middle and death over bowler with full pitchers or half trackers.

And even in his prime left handers like warmer or Dhawam never struggled against him si he that killer inswing was only effective against right handers.

That 2019-2021 shaheen atg was overrated to begin with. It was foolish to think he was bumrah tier just because Shaheen was ranked no 1 by icc, in the same way it's foolish to think Babar is on par with kohli just because icc ranks him.no 1

 

[Bhaijaan]

In odi yes, Test hell no

In ODIs, yes.
In Tests, absolutely yes.
Dravid is a legend in tests.

 

[mominsaigol]

In ODIs, yes.
In Tests, absolutely yes.
Dravid is a legend in tests.

All om gonna say is, Glenn mcgrath 4-8, Turned India into a joke that day. Looking at you Mr Wall

 

[Bhaijaan]

In ODIs yes Dravid was better but in Test YK stands equal to dravid

No he does not.
There maybe a minority in Pakistan that might think so. Globally Dravid is revered as a test cricket legend and among the greatest #3 ever.

 

[Bhaijaan]

All om gonna say is, Glenn mcgrath 4-8, Turned India into a joke that day. Looking at you Mr Wall

Don’t want to be disrespectful to Yoni bhai but comparing him to Dravid is stretching it.

Dravid is test batting royalty.