Will Pakistan get Covid vaccines from India?

[Napa]

The vaccine powerhouse - India makes about 60% of vaccines globally - has also begun shipping millions of free doses to friendly neighbours in the region, in what is being described as "vaccine diplomacy".

Unsurprisingly, Pakistan is not a recipient. The two nuclear-armed rivals have fought three wars since gaining independence from Britain in 1947, with the last war between them taking place in 1971. They came to the brink of war in 2019 over the disputed territory of Kashmir.

Pakistan plans to inoculate at least 70% of its 220 million people against Covid free of cost. Regulators have given emergency use approval for three candidates - the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, the China-made Sinopharm and Russian-developed Sputnik V. Another China-made vaccine CanSino Biologics is in final clinical trials in Pakistan. The country has recorded more than 530,000 infections, and 11,514 deaths from the infection so far.

For starters, China has pledged to donate 500,000 doses of the Sinopharm to Pakistan, and the first batches are expected to arrive at the weekend. "This is nothing. We will need a lot more vaccines," Usman Ghani of Sindh Medical Stores, a leading Karachi-based importer of vaccines, told me.

...

Despite the fraught relations, pharmaceutical trade between the two countries has been stable. In 2018, Pakistan's pharma imports from India were estimated at more than $62m (£45m). Some 60-70% of active ingredients contained in medicines sold in Pakistan are imported from India.

More importantly, almost 90% of vaccines administered in Pakistan come from India, according to Mr Ghani. Indian vaccines, he adds, are "world-class, affordable and shipping is easy". Most of these vaccines are distributed through Pakistan's state-funded immunisation programme which targets 14 million new-borns and pregnant women every year. The children are given jabs against 10 diseases while mothers are inoculated against tetanus.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-55838132

If Pakistan is already getting vaccines from India for other diseases, I do not see why they should not get Covid vaccines too. The Chinese offer of 0.5 million vaccines is obviously insufficient given Pakistan's goal of immunizing 154 million (70% of 220 million).

 

[Bigboii]

don't see any reason not to, they are more transparent with their vaccine procedures than the Chinese so not a lot of safety issues
Maybe Modi not agreeing to it? but its such a good propaganda tool I doubt he'll refuse
we already are taking their medicine supplies so a precedent is there
So there are no cons imo that I can see tbh (except for me getting annoyed at joshilla boasting and chest thumping )

 

[Napa]

don't see any reason not to, they are more transparent with their vaccine procedures than the Chinese so not a lot of safety issues
Maybe Modi not agreeing to it? but its such a good propaganda tool I doubt he'll refuse
we already are taking their medicine supplies so a precedent is there
So there are no cons imo that I can see tbh (except for me getting annoyed at joshilla boasting and chest thumping )

I think as Pakistan already is supplied with vaccines from India, the Indian government should not object. However, as long as there is a shortage of Covid vaccines, the Indian government may not allow its export to Pakistan. Good opportunity though for India to make an effort to improve relations with Pakistan. The vulnerable section of all countries (older with preexisting conditions) need the vaccine ASAP, the young have a less pressing need.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Would be nice if it happened - for everyone concerned. However I imagine the chinese will be able to ramp up production soon enough and Pakistan will probably just go to them for more vaccines.

China say they can produce 2 billion vaccines this year.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1213557.shtml

 

[Napa]

Would be nice if it happened - for everyone concerned. However I imagine the chinese will be able to ramp up production soon enough and Pakistan will probably just go to them for more vaccines.

China say they can produce 2 billion vaccines this year.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1213557.shtml

Global Times is a mouthpiece of the Chinese government. I wouldn't believe everything they say. Also, apparently in the Brazilian trials their vaccine was only 50.4% effective, which is not good enough in my opinion.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Global Times is a mouthpiece of the Chinese government. I wouldn't believe everything they say. Also, apparently in the Brazilian trials their vaccine was only 50.4% effective, which is not good enough in my opinion.

Yeah fair point.

However if the numbers below are accurate then it will probably take 12 months just to meet domestic demand. The current vaccine gifts to various countries are a nice bit of diplomacy but the government’s main responsibility is to their own citizens - vaccinate Indians before thinking of exports IMO.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-55571793

 

[Romali_rotti]

I hope India will supply Pakistan with the vaccines, this can form a small bridge to mending the relationships between the countries, for the time being...

 

[Varun]

don't see any reason not to, they are more transparent with their vaccine procedures than the Chinese so not a lot of safety issues
Maybe Modi not agreeing to it? but its such a good propaganda tool I doubt he'll refuse
we already are taking their medicine supplies so a precedent is there
So there are no cons imo that I can see tbh (except for me getting annoyed at joshilla boasting and chest thumping )

Joshilabot is adding the "Lmao Pakistan had to beg India with folding hands to get rid of Covid" to his algorithm as we type...

 

[cricketjoshila]

Imran and Modi should make sure this happens. Life saving vaccine should not be held hostage to the diplomatic situation between the two countries.

Pakistan already imports Indian vaccines, so importing more shouldn't be an issue.

May be this will actually kickstart a new era in Indo Pak relationship.

 

[cricketjoshila]

don't see any reason not to, they are more transparent with their vaccine procedures than the Chinese so not a lot of safety issues
Maybe Modi not agreeing to it? but its such a good propaganda tool I doubt he'll refuse
we already are taking their medicine supplies so a precedent is there
So there are no cons imo that I can see tbh (except for me getting annoyed at joshilla boasting and chest thumping )

Atleast read my views before making up your mind.

If Pakistan asks India for the vaccines and India refuses, i will be very disappointed as an Indian and will be the first one to criticize Modi.

 

[gani999]

Joshilabot is adding the "Lmao Pakistan had to beg India with folding hands to get rid of Covid" to his algorithm as we type...

When are you Indian leftist 'liberals' going to develop some objectivity?

No straight thinking, decent Indian, irrespective of political leaning, would be happy if India refused vaccines to Pakistan. No one would boast about it either. India already supplies a lot of other vaccines to Pakistan.

Straight thinking and decent are the operative words here, not things one would associate with Indian leftist 'liberals' nowadays sadly.

You lot have a long way to go before you can become a credible opposition to Modi. The quicker you step out of the Rahul Gandhi school of thought, the better, both for you and India.

 

[ahsan17]

When are you Indian leftist 'liberals' going to develop some objectivity?

No straight thinking, decent Indian, irrespective of political leaning, would be happy if India refused vaccines to Pakistan. No one would boast about it either. India already supplies a lot of other vaccines to Pakistan.

Straight thinking and decent are the operative words here, not things one would associate with Indian leftist 'liberals' nowadays sadly.

You lot have a long way to go before you can become a credible opposition to Modi. The quicker you step out of the Rahul Gandhi school of thought, the better, both for you and India.

He's right though. There are plenty of trolls from India that are already mocking Pakistan for approving the AstraZeneca vaccine, because there's a good chance that even though the vaccine is British, it will be manufactured in India. I have seen a sh*t ton of them thus far. And yes they may not be straight thinking and decent, but Varun never said anything about that.

 

[big_gamer007]

Joshilabot is adding the "Lmao Pakistan had to beg India with folding hands to get rid of Covid" to his algorithm as we type...

I don't think you understand how IT cells work, if BJP will be exporting vaccines to Pakistan, the IT cell memos will read will shumanity comes first, it's good India is sending vaccine as CoVID threatens entire world etc etc
So the guys working in IT cell will spam.online social media with comments based on that.

If BJP had refused to send vaccines to Pakistan, then the memos will say this is good decision as we won't help a country which kills our soldier, they should first end terrorism etc etc

So these IT cell workers posts would have been different.

 

[Hornbill]

Vaccine is manufactured by a private firm they will sell it to Pakistan like other India based pharmaceutical companies but there are already plenty of pre-orders from other countries so it's better to depend on other countries which can supply vaccines at the earliest.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Imran and Modi should make sure this happens. Life saving vaccine should not be held hostage to the diplomatic situation between the two countries.

Pakistan already imports Indian vaccines, so importing more shouldn't be an issue.

May be this will actually kickstart a new era in Indo Pak relationship.

Lol really? Even if Bhartiya Gunda Party wants to have peaceful relationship with Pakistan in future they can't do it openly. Their political agendas revolve around Pakistan and Indian muslims. They have nothing to show when it comes to development and economy.

 

[Greenstorm]

We should avoid taking it from India. No point in buying from enemy country.

Moreover, we won't hear the end of it from Indians. Even on this forum, Indians mock Pakistanis because a few of them are treated in Indian hospitals.

 

[Hornbill]

Global Times is a mouthpiece of the Chinese government. I wouldn't believe everything they say. Also, apparently in the Brazilian trials their vaccine was only 50.4% effective, which is not good enough in my opinion.

people in India have to take a particular vaccine without knowing its efficacy and interim safety

 

[cricketjoshila]

Novavax's CovaVax and Johnson and Johnson's vaccines too would be manufactured in India. CovaVax likely to available by June.

I sincerely hope that India is in a position to provide the vaccines to Pakistan, if needed.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Vaccine is manufactured by a private firm they will sell it to Pakistan like other India based pharmaceutical companies but there are already plenty of pre-orders from other countries so it's better to depend on other countries which can supply vaccines at the earliest.

All covid vaccines from India will need Govt's approval to be exported. If Pakistan asks, a few million doses can be provided on a urgent basis like it was given to Brazil.

 

[MenInG]

India will do what's best for it.

If it means to punish Pakistan for whatever reason they deem fit - they will do. We can cry as much as we like.

 

[Romali_rotti]

If it means to punish Pakistan for whatever reason they deem fit - they will do.

I sincerely hope that wont be the case here, this is a humanitarian crisis.. IMO PM Modi will use this to his advantage and release the vaccine supplies to Pakistan, if any it will strengthen his image even more in front of the world..

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Atleast read my views before making up your mind.

If Pakistan asks India for the vaccines and India refuses, i will be very disappointed as an Indian and will be the first one to criticize Modi.

If this is a humanitarian issue then it needs to be India who offers the vaccine, Pakistan is not going to ask for it. India is already distributing the British vaccines to other countries in the region, so there is no reason why they can't offer to Pakistan. As has been pointed out, they are already selling pharmaceuticals to Pakistan.

 

[RajBan]

Tremendous opportunity to have a diplomatic handshake in positive sense. However in case there is a government to government understanding on sending vaccines to Pakistan, I hope a section of media and online posters show humility and does not try to score points. That will be the lowest of lows if that happens. If one wants to help somebody at moments of distress , then it should be done without any vanity and showoff.

 

[Bigboii]

Atleast read my views before making up your mind.

If Pakistan asks India for the vaccines and India refuses, i will be very disappointed as an Indian and will be the first one to criticize Modi.

You really want me to go ahead post all of your posts where you are boasting/chest thumping about Pakistan gov coming to it's knees to india, it's gov and buying life saving drugs from Indian pharmaceutical companies

What should make me think if a guy can go absolutely ballistic in boasting about life saving drugs than that same guy won't have those views about something as normal as covid vaccine

I am pretty sure lots of posters who have been here for a while can attest to what I am talking about if they don't suffer from "gajni" syndrome

Sorry for being blunt but I don't expect any half decent thing to come out of your mouth due to your track record and it has nothing to do with your right wing leanings most on here are like that but I don't expect them to stoop to low levels and boast about Pak gov begging for life saving drugs for serious illnesses like cancer or other such serious conditions

 

[CanadianG00se]

If this is a humanitarian issue then it needs to be India who offers the vaccine, Pakistan is not going to ask for it. India is already distributing the British vaccines to other countries in the region, so there is no reason why they can't offer to Pakistan. As has been pointed out, they are already selling pharmaceuticals to Pakistan.

Those countries have placed an order which is why they got the supplies. You don’t expect India to go on knock on Pakistan’s door be like hey you want vaccine? Pakistan need to ask since they are the one who needs it, not the other way around.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Tremendous opportunity to have a diplomatic handshake in positive sense. However in case there is a government to government understanding on sending vaccines to Pakistan, I hope a section of media and online posters show humility and does not try to score points. That will be the lowest of lows if that happens. If one wants to help somebody at moments of distress , then it should be done without any vanity and showoff.

Especially as both vaccines are actually British drugs being mass produced in India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Those countries have placed an order which is why they got the supplies. You don’t expect India to go on knock on Pakistan’s door be like hey you want vaccine? Pakistan need to ask since they are the one who needs it, not the other way around.

If you read the OP it says specifically that India has been shipping millions of vaccines free to neighbouring countries as part of vaccine diplomacy efforts. Do you understand the meaning of diplomacy?

 

[RajBan]

Especially as both vaccines are actually British drugs being mass produced in India.

Regardless of whether it is an output of British research or indigenous effort, I will absolutely hate if this becomes an event of demonstrating upmanship.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Pakistan wont ask india for Covid Vaccine, we already have other 3 better options available .... thanks but no thanks.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Regardless of whether it is an output of British research or indigenous effort, I will absolutely hate if this becomes an event of demonstrating upmanship.

Great opportunity for India to show some leadership credentials in the region actually.

 

[Bewal Express]

I think India should vaccinate its own. IA PK will be fine

 

[CanadianG00se]

If you read the OP it says specifically that India has been shipping millions of vaccines free to neighbouring countries as part of vaccine diplomacy efforts. Do you understand the meaning of diplomacy?

Dude they shipped millions of free vaccine on top of the actual order they placed. Countries like BD and Nepal have placed an order(and already paid for). Indian govt added couple million doses free on top of that order they placed. OP have not provided entire details about those ‘free doses’. Indian government have always supplied life saving drugs to Pakistan, so I see no reason why they will turn down Pakistan’s request, should they make one.
Beside as someone posted, Pakistan is getting better options mainly from China, so I guess it’s a win-win.

 

[Local.Dada]

You really want me to go ahead post all of your posts where you are boasting/chest thumping about Pakistan gov coming to it's knees to india, it's gov and buying life saving drugs from Indian pharmaceutical companies

What should make me think if a guy can go absolutely ballistic in boasting about life saving drugs than that same guy won't have those views about something as normal as covid vaccine

I am pretty sure lots of posters who have been here for a while can attest to what I am talking about if they don't suffer from "gajni" syndrome

Sorry for being blunt but I don't expect any half decent thing to come out of your mouth due to your track record and it has nothing to do with your right wing leanings most on here are like that but I don't expect them to stoop to low levels and boast about Pak gov begging for life saving drugs for serious illnesses like cancer or other such serious conditions

Let me ask you a basic question.

If India gives Vaccines to Pakistan, does it hurt your ego or does it hurt Pakistan’s?

I personally think there is nothing wrong in asking help and 100% sure India will reciprocate. If you remember Sushma Swaraj had issued medical visas for some Pakistani kids during the height of the tension as well.

I think people sitting in western countries are dissecting and judging this because they have their vaccines, so they can make decisions on what Pakistan can and cannot do.

If your biggest concern is Joshila’s chest thumping then I guess we are good.

 

[Local.Dada]

Pakistan wont ask india for Covid Vaccine, we already have other 3 better options available .... thanks but no thanks.

Lol, better donors you mean?

Sometimes ego shouldn’t come in the way and Imran Khan and army folk can get vaccinated in England,USA etc, what about the common folk?

Anyway let’s see how Pakistan handles this.
Good luck for the greater good

 

[saeedhk]

Ideally, Pakistan should buy it from India but given Pakistan’s inflated ego and constant fear mongering with regards to India, it would never buy vaccines from India.

Hats off to India for giving out vaccines to its neighbours for free!

 

[Bigboii]

Let me ask you a basic question.

If India gives Vaccines to Pakistan, does it hurt your ego or does it hurt Pakistan’s?

I personally think there is nothing wrong in asking help and 100% sure India will reciprocate. If you remember Sushma Swaraj had issued medical visas for some Pakistani kids during the height of the tension as well.

I think people sitting in western countries are dissecting and judging this because they have their vaccines, so they can make decisions on what Pakistan can and cannot do.

If your biggest concern is Joshila’s chest thumping then I guess we are good.

You do know that my point about Joshilla was a joke right? The laughing emoji pretty much summed it all up...

The second part was more focused on him sort of denying that he likes to indulge chest thumping when it comes to life saving drugs but his chest thumping doesn't change my view whatsoever ever I still think it's good for Pak to take the vaccines from India

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think India should vaccinate its own. IA PK will be fine

Agree. can see already from this thread that it will end up being a political football used to score points.

"Pakistan MUST ask us if they want our charity!!"

Nah, just keep the British vaccine and look after your own people, Pakistan will manage from other sources thanks.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India will do what's best for it.

If it means to punish Pakistan for whatever reason they deem fit - they will do. We can cry as much as we like.

It will be extremely unfortunate if India refuses to provide vaccines to pakistan, despite Pakistan's request.

As an Indian i would be disappointed at such an event.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If this is a humanitarian issue then it needs to be India who offers the vaccine, Pakistan is not going to ask for it. India is already distributing the British vaccines to other countries in the region, so there is no reason why they can't offer to Pakistan. As has been pointed out, they are already selling pharmaceuticals to Pakistan.

All foreign exports has been under a govt to govt deal, where a foreign govt has officially asked for vaccine doses. There has been no commercial exports yet.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You really want me to go ahead post all of your posts where you are boasting/chest thumping about Pakistan gov coming to it's knees to india, it's gov and buying life saving drugs from Indian pharmaceutical companies

What should make me think if a guy can go absolutely ballistic in boasting about life saving drugs than that same guy won't have those views about something as normal as covid vaccine

I am pretty sure lots of posters who have been here for a while can attest to what I am talking about if they don't suffer from "gajni" syndrome

Sorry for being blunt but I don't expect any half decent thing to come out of your mouth due to your track record and it has nothing to do with your right wing leanings most on here are like that but I don't expect them to stoop to low levels and boast about Pak gov begging for life saving drugs for serious illnesses like cancer or other such serious conditions

Please do find those posts. Unless those posts are in two contexts:

1. To posters saying India wants to destroy pakistanis or India hasn't accepted pakistan as nation.

2. To posters who said Imran did it right by banning all trade.

This is a humanitarian crisis, biggest the world has faced in probably a century. I will be damned if i say its a chest thumping opportunity.

Yes i feel good that India is in a position to help many countries with vaccine dosages, but more than pride, it gives a feeling of relief.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You do know that my point about Joshilla was a joke right? The laughing emoji pretty much summed it all up...

The second part was more focused on him sort of denying that he likes to indulge chest thumping when it comes to life saving drugs but his chest thumping doesn't change my view whatsoever ever I still think it's good for Pak to take the vaccines from India

If your issue is any of my posts, i am sorry for that. But this is a life and death scenario, its not a question of your ego or my pride.

 

[Varun]

When are you Indian leftist 'liberals' going to develop some objectivity?

No straight thinking, decent Indian, irrespective of political leaning, would be happy if India refused vaccines to Pakistan. No one would boast about it either. India already supplies a lot of other vaccines to Pakistan.

Straight thinking and decent are the operative words here, not things one would associate with Indian leftist 'liberals' nowadays sadly.

You lot have a long way to go before you can become a credible opposition to Modi. The quicker you step out of the Rahul Gandhi school of thought, the better, both for you and India.

Can you not take a joke?

Looks like politics has consumed your life, like it has many others.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

All foreign exports has been under a govt to govt deal, where a foreign govt has officially asked for vaccine doses. There has been no commercial exports yet.

Is it a humanitarian issue or a business one? I can never quite tell depending on which post of yours I am reading.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Is it a humanitarian issue or a business one? I can never quite tell depending on which post of yours I am reading.

Presently the govt is giving the vaccines to countries asking for it at free of cost and on a emergency basis. Its a sort of grant.

Later on countries can decide to order from the companies involved.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Actually worth clicking on the link to read the full article in the OP as Napa has posted selective excerpts ( due to space limits no doubt) and it is clear that the piece is written addressing the battle for regional influence between China and India. The topic it seems has more political connotations than some on here are admitting.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Beside as someone posted, Pakistan is getting better options mainly from China, so I guess it’s a win-win.

Sweet lord, look after my Pakistani brothers, god knows what's in store with the China Vaccine, we already know the effects of the Virus that originated in China..

 

[Romali_rotti]

Ideally, Pakistan should buy it from India but given Pakistan’s inflated ego and constant fear mongering with regards to India, it would never buy vaccines from India.

Hats off to India for giving out vaccines to its neighbours for free!

I feel India has missed a trick here, they should have offered Vaccines to Pakistan also while they offered it to rest of its neighbors. Would have looked great on the international scene...

 

[Napa]

people in India have to take a particular vaccine without knowing its efficacy and interim safety

The Indian created Covaxin vaccine hasn't passed phase 3 trials, however has passed phase 1 and phase 2 trials which involve hundreds of people given the vaccine. So I won't say that that nothing is known about its safety, rather not enough is known about its safety to satisfy Western regulators.

The largest vaccine producer of the world, Serum Institute of India is producing the Astra-Zeneca vaccine which has passed trials to the satisfaction of British health authorities.

 

[Napa]

We should avoid taking it from India. No point in buying from enemy country.

Moreover, we won't hear the end of it from Indians. Even on this forum, Indians mock Pakistanis because a few of them are treated in Indian hospitals.

Would you advocate stopping the vaccination of Pakistani children too? As the article says, 90% of vaccines being used in Pakistan come from India.

Really, the animosity between India and Pakistan benefits no one. There is much to be gained by cooperation between people who ethnically are a lot closer to each other than they are to the rest of the world.

 

[Napa]

He's right though. There are plenty of trolls from India that are already mocking Pakistan for approving the AstraZeneca vaccine, because there's a good chance that even though the vaccine is British, it will be manufactured in India. I have seen a sh*t ton of them thus far. And yes they may not be straight thinking and decent, but Varun never said anything about that.

A country of over a billion people is likely to have over a million or even ten million trolls. However, trolls do not represent the people of any country.

 

[Napa]

Especially as both vaccines are actually British drugs being mass produced in India.

Too bad for the British that they can't manufacture it themselves and it has to be manufactured in India. Yes, the British developed it, so credit to them. Also credit to India for manufacturing it. The vaccine is therefore possible by the joint efforts of both countries.

Also, while the Astra vaccine was developed in Britain, the Covaxin vaccine was developed in India.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

If 90% of vaccines in Pakistan already come from India, I dont see why Pakistan would have a problem getting the vaccine of Covid from India.

 

[ahsan17]

Too bad for the British that they can't manufacture it themselves and it has to be manufactured in India. Yes, the British developed it, so credit to them. Also credit to India for manufacturing it. The vaccine is therefore possible by the joint efforts of both countries.

Also, while the Astra vaccine was developed in Britain, the Covaxin vaccine was developed in India.

Nobody thinks iPhones are a joint effort between US and China just because it is mostly manufactured in China.

 

[ahsan17]

Going back to the topic, I am not sure I quite understand in concrete terms Pakistan getting vaccines from India. The only vaccine India can offer is their own Covaxin vaccine, which AFAIK is only being used in India at the moment. The other vaccines such as AstraZeneca are not India's product, so the only way India can offer other vaccines is if it buys them and then donates them. It doesn't own those vaccines, so even if it manufactures them it doesn't control where it gets distributed to. I am not sure how it's donating to other countries - is it their own vaccine or its buying AstraZeneca vaccine and donating them?

 

[Napa]

Nobody thinks iPhones are a joint effort between US and China just because it is mostly manufactured in China.

China not only gets credit for becoming a huge manufacturing base for US firms, but has also gained a huge amount of wealth, prestige and power for being the manufacturing base.

US gets a lot of criticism and has also been weakened as a result.

 

[Napa]

Going back to the topic, I am not sure I quite understand in concrete terms Pakistan getting vaccines from India. The only vaccine India can offer is their own Covaxin vaccine, which AFAIK is only being used in India at the moment. The other vaccines such as AstraZeneca are not India's product, so the only way India can offer other vaccines is if it buys them and then donates them. It doesn't own those vaccines, so even if it manufactures them it doesn't control where it gets distributed to. I am not sure how it's donating to other countries - is it their own vaccine or its buying AstraZeneca vaccine and donating them?

Serum Institute of India, the world's largest vaccine producer, is producing the AstraZeneca vaccine. As Serum Institute of India is an Indian company with its manufacturing based in India, you can bet that the Indian government has a say in who gets those vaccines.

Not only AstraZeneca, but Serum Institute of India will also produce vaccines developed by two US firms Novavax and Codagenix.

 

[ahsan17]

Serum Institute of India, the world's largest vaccine producer, is producing the AstraZeneca vaccine. As Serum Institute of India is an Indian company with its manufacturing based in India, you can bet that the Indian government has a say in who gets those vaccines.

Not only AstraZeneca, but Serum Institute of India will also produce vaccines developed by two US firms Novavax and Codagenix.

But is India buying the AstraZeneca vaccine and donating it to other countries, or doing the same with Covaxin?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

China not only gets credit for becoming a huge manufacturing base for US firms, but has also gained a huge amount of wealth, prestige and power for being the manufacturing base.

US gets a lot of criticism and has also been weakened as a result.

Made in China is usually viewed as something of poor quality. I dont think they have any prestige, at least not in the west.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Going back to the topic, I am not sure I quite understand in concrete terms Pakistan getting vaccines from India. The only vaccine India can offer is their own Covaxin vaccine, which AFAIK is only being used in India at the moment. The other vaccines such as AstraZeneca are not India's product, so the only way India can offer other vaccines is if it buys them and then donates them. It doesn't own those vaccines, so even if it manufactures them it doesn't control where it gets distributed to. I am not sure how it's donating to other countries - is it their own vaccine or its buying AstraZeneca vaccine and donating them?

Aztrazeneca vaccine is produced in India by Serum Institute. Already SL BD Nepal Bhutan Maldives Brazil Oman Mauritius etc have received the India produced vaccine as a free grant from the Govt of India. Some of them have also made orders to Indian companies.

Johnson's Covid vaccine will be produced in India by Biological E.

Novavax's vaccine will also be produced by Serum Institute.

So India has a lot of options other than covaxin.

 

[Greenstorm]

Would you advocate stopping the vaccination of Pakistani children too? As the article says, 90% of vaccines being used in Pakistan come from India.

Really, the animosity between India and Pakistan benefits no one. There is much to be gained by cooperation between people who ethnically are a lot closer to each other than they are to the rest of the world.

We should look for non Indian suppliers and manufacturers.

Cooperation of Humans is good (ethnicity makes no difference) but it is naive and foolish to cooperate with a nation that boycotts your sports teams/artists, that sends kulbhushans to kill your children and that actively engages in isolating your country.

All this drama by Indians has nothing to do with sympathy or any genuine care for Pakistanis. Rather it is a silly attempt at one upmanship, to remind Pakistanis that unlike them ,shining India is producing vaccines, come beg for it.

 

[ahsan17]

Aztrazeneca vaccine is produced in India by Serum Institute. Already SL BD Nepal Bhutan Maldives Brazil Oman Mauritius etc have received the India produced vaccine as a free grant from the Govt of India. Some of them have also made orders to Indian companies.

Johnson's Covid vaccine will be produced in India by Biological E.

Novavax's vaccine will also be produced by Serum Institute.

So India has a lot of options other than covaxin.

The Serum Institute is just the manufacturer, yes? They are just the contractor manufacturing the product, kind of like how Foxconn is for Apple. So did GoI buy those doses from AstraZeneca and ship them to other countries for free?

 

[ahsan17]

We should look for non Indian suppliers and manufacturers.

Cooperation of Humans is good (ethnicity makes no difference) but it is naive and foolish to cooperate with a nation that boycotts your sports teams/artists, that sends kulbhushans to kill your children and that actively engages in isolating your country.

All this drama by Indians has nothing to do with sympathy or any genuine care for Pakistanis. Rather it is a silly attempt at one upmanship, to remind Pakistanis that unlike them ,shining India is producing vaccines, come beg for it.

This is the most likely explanation. Given the absolute hate for Pakistan we have seen in the last few years, that is most likely. You are already seeing them pretending that AstraZeneca vaccine is their own, LOL.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If 90% of vaccines in Pakistan already come from India, I dont see why Pakistan would have a problem getting the vaccine of Covid from India.

Quite clearly Covid vaccines are considered to have bigger political and PR clout than the other 90% pharmaceuticals you are talking about. You can see it even in the nationalist grandstanding in this thread.

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan battles tsunami of Covid-19 patients with few vaccines in sight

(CNN)Keeping vigil outside the hospital ward in Karachi, Daniyal Ameen watched his father breathing through a ventilator via a live video link from the intensive care unit (ICU).

He came every day to see his father, 73-year-old Muhammad Ameen, as he spent weeks on oxygen battling Covid-19. The video link was set up at the private South City Hospital in Karachi to enable relatives to feel closer to their loved ones in the ICU, as visits inside that facility are prohibited.
The screen is the closest Ameen has come to seeing his father for about 18 months. The 33-year-old flew back to Pakistan from his home in Melbourne, Australia, when his dad was hospitalized.

"Seeing him on a screen like that was pretty traumatizing for me," said Ameen. "We told him that yes, I am here, and I want to see him healthy and smiling back again."

But Ameen's father didn't survive. Instead, he became one of thousands of Pakistanis to die from the virus.

Daniyal Ameen and his father, Muhammad Ameen, at the Australian Open in 2020. Muhammad passed away from Covid-19 after being on a ventilator for two weeks in the ICU of South City Hospital in Karachi.
For many countries struggling in the Western world as winter cases surge, the arrival of vaccines has provided a light at the end of the tunnel. But in places like Pakistan, that tunnel remains in near darkness.

"The vaccine is not here in this country for the foreseeable future," says Dr. Nashwa Ahmad, Coordinator of Covid Services and Research and Development at South City Hospital.

"That means our health care workers still have to continue to do their jobs, (and) endless hours, without the protection of the vaccine.

"A vaccine would definitely have given us the additional boost we needed to continue on with fighting the disease."

The hospital has been overwhelmed with "a tsunami of patients," Ahmad says. The three Covid-19 ICU wards are full, and more patients are waiting in ambulances outside.

"We are full, we have patients waiting, we have families who are suffering, we have patients at home, sick patients at home, patients who are on oxygen, we just don't have space in hospitals," she says.



A sign at South City Hospital, a private hospital in Karachi which has stopped taking Covid-19 patients as all its ICU beds are full.

So far, Pakistan has officially recorded more than half a million cases of Covid-19, and more than 11,600 related deaths -- although health officials tell CNN that testing is not sufficient to reflect the true picture.

Pakistan has secured 1.2 million doses from China's Sinopharm, with 500,000 expected to arrive this weekend, but they will barely make a dent in vaccinating the country's population of 216 million.

Health workers in major cities are due to start receiving shots next week, and negotiations are underway for vaccines from other manufacturers, says Asad Umar, the chief of the National Command and Operations Centre.

Pakistan's health minister confirmed this week that his country will also receive 17 million doses of AstraZeneca's coronavirus vaccine in 2021.
About 6 million of those doses are expected in the country in March with the remaining batches following in the second quarter of the year.

....
...

For Daniyal Ameen in Karachi, the option of paying for his family to receive vaccines abroad is an attractive prospect.

As well as losing his father to Covid-19, his mother was also hospitalised with the coronavirus, although she has since recovered.

"If there is an opportunity for me to get myself or my family vaccinated, of course I'm going to get that," he says. "Whatever it takes to do that, because I have seen that very personally that all my family members were affected by Covid."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/30/asia/coronavirus-vaccine-divide-pakistan-dst-intl-hnk/index.html

----------------------------------

With such a situation, it's idiotic to even debate about the source of the vaccine. Every single person will do whatever it takes to save their loved ones. Some may have the means to go outside to take it, but it is not an option for everyone. This debate is non-sense.


Pakistan has so far not ordered vaccine in big numbers. The best chance to get some vaccine will be via the COVAX initiative which is reserved for the poorest 20% of the world population. US committed 4B for this in Dec. I wish they had done it earlier. Other 2.4B commitments came immediately. Funding is not a huge issue anymore for COVAX. It's a question of scaling the manufacturing to get vaccine quickly.

Simply getting vaccines to the top 15-20% most vulnerable population will save tons of life. Hopefully, Pakistan can get a large supply later this year. It will need a minimum of 50-60 M of doses to make a huge dent in this pandemic. COVAX will provide 15-17M to Pakistan. It needs at least another 40M doses. Getting it from China, India or UK is not relevant. Getting it quickly is the only relevant aspect here. Pakistani elite may get their hands on small initial doses, but that's not going to help others.

I also expect richer countries to start donating extra vaccine which they have bought in advance. Many don't need that many doses. China is slow to ramp up production. Hopefully, they do ramp up quickly to supply as well. The world needs as many sources as possible right now and we need them quickly.

It will be great to see at least 50% of the world's population vaccinated this year.

 

[Buffet]

Not every country makes everything and that's why we have international trade. India is also not making vaccines without help from outside. They are buying raw materials from China.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not every country makes everything and that's why we have international trade. India is also not making vaccines without help from outside. They are buying raw materials from China.

Everything is possible if the intent is sincere and you don't want to make political capital out of it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The Serum Institute is just the manufacturer, yes? They are just the contractor manufacturing the product, kind of like how Foxconn is for Apple. So did GoI buy those doses from AstraZeneca and ship them to other countries for free?

They are not contract manufacturers. They have bought the rights to produce as many dosages as they want and to sell to anyone they want. Aztrazeneca isnt the owner of the doses produced by SII.

SII has a deal with Government of India to supply millions of doses on priority.

The covax alliance have ordered 200 plus 900mn doses from SII, but those will only be supplied after the govt of India has got their quota.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is the most likely explanation. Given the absolute hate for Pakistan we have seen in the last few years, that is most likely. You are already seeing them pretending that AstraZeneca vaccine is their own, LOL.

Aztrazeneca has sold the rights to SII. So whatever SII produces is SII's and not of Aztrazeneca.

Even majority of vaccines that Covax will get, will come from Indian manufacturers.

If pakistan is willing to take it from Covax, why not directly from India?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistan battles tsunami of Covid-19 patients with few vaccines in sight

(CNN)Keeping vigil outside the hospital ward in Karachi, Daniyal Ameen watched his father breathing through a ventilator via a live video link from the intensive care unit (ICU).

He came every day to see his father, 73-year-old Muhammad Ameen, as he spent weeks on oxygen battling Covid-19. The video link was set up at the private South City Hospital in Karachi to enable relatives to feel closer to their loved ones in the ICU, as visits inside that facility are prohibited.
The screen is the closest Ameen has come to seeing his father for about 18 months. The 33-year-old flew back to Pakistan from his home in Melbourne, Australia, when his dad was hospitalized.

"Seeing him on a screen like that was pretty traumatizing for me," said Ameen. "We told him that yes, I am here, and I want to see him healthy and smiling back again."

But Ameen's father didn't survive. Instead, he became one of thousands of Pakistanis to die from the virus.

Daniyal Ameen and his father, Muhammad Ameen, at the Australian Open in 2020. Muhammad passed away from Covid-19 after being on a ventilator for two weeks in the ICU of South City Hospital in Karachi.
For many countries struggling in the Western world as winter cases surge, the arrival of vaccines has provided a light at the end of the tunnel. But in places like Pakistan, that tunnel remains in near darkness.

"The vaccine is not here in this country for the foreseeable future," says Dr. Nashwa Ahmad, Coordinator of Covid Services and Research and Development at South City Hospital.

"That means our health care workers still have to continue to do their jobs, (and) endless hours, without the protection of the vaccine.

"A vaccine would definitely have given us the additional boost we needed to continue on with fighting the disease."

The hospital has been overwhelmed with "a tsunami of patients," Ahmad says. The three Covid-19 ICU wards are full, and more patients are waiting in ambulances outside.

"We are full, we have patients waiting, we have families who are suffering, we have patients at home, sick patients at home, patients who are on oxygen, we just don't have space in hospitals," she says.

View attachment 106633

A sign at South City Hospital, a private hospital in Karachi which has stopped taking Covid-19 patients as all its ICU beds are full.

So far, Pakistan has officially recorded more than half a million cases of Covid-19, and more than 11,600 related deaths -- although health officials tell CNN that testing is not sufficient to reflect the true picture.

Pakistan has secured 1.2 million doses from China's Sinopharm, with 500,000 expected to arrive this weekend, but they will barely make a dent in vaccinating the country's population of 216 million.

Health workers in major cities are due to start receiving shots next week, and negotiations are underway for vaccines from other manufacturers, says Asad Umar, the chief of the National Command and Operations Centre.

Pakistan's health minister confirmed this week that his country will also receive 17 million doses of AstraZeneca's coronavirus vaccine in 2021.
About 6 million of those doses are expected in the country in March with the remaining batches following in the second quarter of the year.

....
...

For Daniyal Ameen in Karachi, the option of paying for his family to receive vaccines abroad is an attractive prospect.

As well as losing his father to Covid-19, his mother was also hospitalised with the coronavirus, although she has since recovered.

"If there is an opportunity for me to get myself or my family vaccinated, of course I'm going to get that," he says. "Whatever it takes to do that, because I have seen that very personally that all my family members were affected by Covid."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/30/asia/coronavirus-vaccine-divide-pakistan-dst-intl-hnk/index.html

----------------------------------

With such a situation, it's idiotic to even debate about the source of the vaccine. Every single person will do whatever it takes to save their loved ones. Some may have the means to go outside to take it, but it is not an option for everyone. This debate is non-sense.


Pakistan has so far not ordered vaccine in big numbers. The best chance to get some vaccine will be via the COVAX initiative which is reserved for the poorest 20% of the world population. US committed 4B for this in Dec. I wish they had done it earlier. Other 2.4B commitments came immediately. Funding is not a huge issue anymore for COVAX. It's a question of scaling the manufacturing to get vaccine quickly.

Simply getting vaccines to the top 15-20% most vulnerable population will save tons of life. Hopefully, Pakistan can get a large supply later this year. It will need a minimum of 50-60 M of doses to make a huge dent in this pandemic. COVAX will provide 15-17M to Pakistan. It needs at least another 40M doses. Getting it from China, India or UK is not relevant. Getting it quickly is the only relevant aspect here. Pakistani elite may get their hands on small initial doses, but that's not going to help others.

I also expect richer countries to start donating extra vaccine which they have bought in advance. Many don't need that many doses. China is slow to ramp up production. Hopefully, they do ramp up quickly to supply as well. The world needs as many sources as possible right now and we need them quickly.

It will be great to see at least 50% of the world's population vaccinated this year.

Majority of Covax supply will come from India. So ultimately India made vaccines will find its way into pakistan. Unless ofcourse they refuse any covax vaccine that has been produced in India. So its only sensible that they get it directly from India.

 

[Buffet]

Majority of Covax supply will come from India. So ultimately India made vaccines will find its way into pakistan. Unless ofcourse they refuse any covax vaccine that has been produced in India. So its only sensible that they get it directly from India.

It could be a cost issue and not much to do with not taking from India. COVAX is free for the poorest 20% of the population in the world and it could be subsidized for others as well. I don't think everything is about India Pakistan politics here.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It could be a cost issue and not much to do with not taking from India. COVAX is free for the poorest 20% of the population in the world and it could be subsidized for others as well. I don't think everything is about India Pakistan politics here.

India is giving away millions of doses free. Already many countries have received them. Long before Covax.

 

[Buffet]

Some trickle of orders flowing, but it's for elite sections,

-----------------------

Pakistan orders vaccines for parliamentarians, staff and families



Islamabad: Pakistan’s Senate Deputy Chairman Saleem Mandviwalla has announced that an order of 200,000 vaccines for COVID-19 has been placed to administer to parliamentarians, staff members of the Senate and their families.

In an interview with a private news channel, the deputy chairman said the order has been placed through the embassy of China in Pakistan.

He said that he had asked Dr Faisal Sultan, Special Assistant to the Prime Minister (SAPM) on Health if the government was unable to decide and procure, the private sector should be allowed to acquire it.

Dr Sultan made it clear the government had already given approval and the private sector could procure, he said. Therefore, we have placed an order for the Chinese vaccines for the Senate members, staff and parliamentarians, he said.

Pakistan has so far approved three coronavirus vaccines — the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, the vaccine developed by Chinese state-owned firm China National Pharmaceutical Group (SinoPharm) and Russian-developed Sputnik V.

Meanwhile, coronavirus cases have reportedly increased in the government-run colleges across Karachi, according to official data.

The first among the colleges with the highest number of COVID-19 cases is the Sir Syed Government Girls College where about 58 staff members have tested positive.

Shaheed-e- Millat Girls College comes second with 21 staff members getting infected with COVID-19.

Recently, three districts in Karachi reported 100 per cent increase in the coronavirus positivity rate in the past week, Sindh Health Department said Friday. The province’s health department said the spike in coronavirus positivity rates can be attributed to the fact that people have quit following the Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs).

Pakistan’s parliamentary secretary for Health has revealed that China has assured to supply COVID-19 vaccine before the end of January.

Chinese government has assured that it will supply 500,000 vaccines to Pakistan by January 31, said Dr Nausheen Hamid adding in the first phase, frontline health workers will be administered vaccine shots.

So far, we have registered more than 300,000 health workers in the country.

46 deaths, 1,644 new cases in 24 hours

Pakistan’s cases of COVID-19 surged to 541,031 with 1,644 new cases in the last 24 hours. Similarly, with 46 fatalities in the same period, Pakistan’s toll due to COVID-19 has reached 11,560. According to the National health ministry’s portal, there are 2,133 critical cases of COVID-19 in the country while after 43,381 tests in one day, the country reported 32,726 active cases and 2,167 patients recovered in this period. Pakistan’s total recoveries from COVID-19 have reached 496,745.

https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/pak...arliamentarians-staff-and-families-1.76826835

------------------------

Most of the deals around the world have been Gov to Gov. Given the private sector in Pakistan is getting involved, I think vaccine supply will increase with time. Private sectors will also have fewer issues with the source of vaccine. I am not sure that's the case even with the Pakistani government.

I have not seen any report of the Pakistani government placing a big order outside of the subsidized COVAX pipeline. So it could be simply a cost issue and nothing to do with politics here. Hopefully, COVAX increases the allotment for all countries.

 

[Buffet]

India is giving away millions of doses free. Already many countries have received them. Long before Covax.

India is doing a fine job here and it will build goodwill. Nothing wrong with that. Kudos for that. But the total gifted amount of vaccine is not going to make a huge dent in most countries. Something like COVAX will make an actual dent with 8-10B money behind it. The world needs 2-3B doses at a subsidized rate and it will help if there are 4-5 cheap alternatives is in place. Any single vaccine won't be enough to cover it. I am hoping for JNJ to produce 1B this year because it is a cheap enough dose with no extreme storage requirement. That will make it easy to distribute in developing countries. Hopefully, China can scale it as well.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India is doing a fine job here and it will build goodwill. Nothing wrong with that. Kudos for that. But the total gifted amount of vaccine is not going to make a huge dent in most countries. Something like COVAX will make an actual dent with 8-10B money behind it. The world needs 2-3B doses at a subsidized rate and it will help if there are 4-5 cheap alternatives is in place. Any single vaccine won't be enough to cover it. I am hoping for JNJ to produce 1B this year because it is a cheap enough dose with no extreme storage requirement. That will make it easy to distribute in developing countries. Hopefully, China can scale it as well.

JNJ vaccine will be made in India by a company Biological E around 400mn doses. So hopefully it will be distributed by 2nd quarter.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Aztrazeneca has sold the rights to SII. So whatever SII produces is SII's and not of Aztrazeneca.

Even majority of vaccines that Covax will get, will come from Indian manufacturers.

If pakistan is willing to take it from Covax, why not directly from India?

How do you know they aren't willing to take directly from India?

 

[Giannis]

It's funny and ironic how the BBC is pushing for Pakistan to get vaccines from India - its biggest adversary, a country it has a significant trust deficit with yet at the same time they fear monger about Russia and China and the west shouldn't trust their vaccines; it's like Pakistan's interests and concerns don't matter but the west are justified to have their own.

 

[Buffet]

fear monger about Russia and China and the west shouldn't trust their vaccines;

A vaccine has to complete phase 3 and openly publish data to gain trust and approval by regulators in different countries.

Forget about the west, Russians themselves are not trusting it. Politics has its place, but if your loved one's life is at risk, you are not going to just go by politics. That's why there was huge pushback of Trump's attempt to push the vaccine before the phase 3 trial. Indians are pushing one local vaccine before finishing the phase 3 trial and that's not going to make locals trust the vaccine. You need to have phase 3 done and share the data.

I am comfortable taking the Russian or Chinese vaccine as long as phase 3 trial data is peer reviews just like any other vaccine.

 

[Buffet]

Astra is still not approved in the US despite the US ordering it 300M doses in advance. Delay is not due to being Chinese or Russian. It is simply regulators following protocols. Different countries will have different protocols before approving it. It is not about the west or east.

 

[ahsan17]

They are not contract manufacturers. They have bought the rights to produce as many dosages as they want and to sell to anyone they want. Aztrazeneca isnt the owner of the doses produced by SII.

SII has a deal with Government of India to supply millions of doses on priority.

The covax alliance have ordered 200 plus 900mn doses from SII, but those will only be supplied after the govt of India has got their quota.

So they have licensed AstraZeneca's vaccine. In Pakistan case, all the contracts are directly with the manufacturer, with the exception of Covax. So those vaccines could be manufactured in India, Nigeria, Ghana, Uruguay for all it matters.

That does remind - there was a thread while back that AstraZeneca vaccines would also be produced in Pakistan and BD. Perhaps Pakistan could leverage those vaccines for its own population.

 

[Buffet]

How do you know they aren't willing to take directly from India?

Reasons may have nothing to do with politics,

----------------------

....

....

The federal government had approved AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine for emergency use in Pakistan. The Sindh Medical Stores representative said the registration had been done by Drap but his company could not get documentary approval from the authority (Drap) till date and even vaccine price could not be fixed. “However, we are not in a hurry as we could not get any guaranty from the supply line.

“As AstraZeneca vaccine is being prepared in India so India will get the vaccine first and then or meanwhile it will be given to Covax. Moreover, countries such as Nepal, Bhutan and Bangladesh have already paid in advance to get the vaccine,” he said.

....

“We have very cordial relations with Serum Institute of India and we would try our best to procure it as early as possible,” he added.

....

https://www.dawn.com/news/1602655/oxford-vaccine-may-cost-around-6-in-pakistan

--------------------------------------------