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World Chess Championship 2018: Magnus Carlsen (NOR) vs Fabiano Caruana (USA)

Swashbuckler

Swashbuckler

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Too tight to call, Carlsen has declined a lot since his 2012-14 heights and looking vulnerable this year. Fabi is having his best year till date and only a win away from displacing the Viking from top spot. Will Carlsen win his 4th WCC and tie with Alekhine, Steinitz in the all time list or will USA get its first World Champion after Fischer's glorious triumph in 1972 Reykjavik?

If you are a chess fan you can't miss this one. London is where GOAT Garry Kasparov fell to Kramnik's Berlin Defence in one of the greatest upsets of all time, 18 years back. Will London be Carlsen's Waterloo too?

Fun start in game 1, a Sicilian Rossolimo which is kinda unexpected at the start :broad. Thought they would play quieter lines and test the waters.
 
Fantastic recovery by Caruana in game 1. Should boost his confidence.
 
I've gone back to watching Tal games, this is like 2 old engines going at it. Looks like they've never heard of the word risk, safest of safe play only.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
I've gone back to watching Tal games, this is like 2 old engines going at it. Looks like they've never heard of the word risk, safest of safe play only.
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Too much at stake here, I feel 12 games are too less, ideally should be a 16 game WC. Almost always in the first few games the players try to test each other's prep and a short match becomes even shorter. Also the elite have become quite invulnerable in classical format thanks to engines. Still Carlsen should have converted game 1, match scenario would have turned very different but alas he has lost his killer instinct which made him so powerful a few years back.

Russian super coach GM Sergei Shipov suggested playing the tiebreaks first and then giving winner of that draw odds in the classical portion. I think that is a terrific idea because then at least one player will have to take risks in classical. But I fear FIDE will do something stupid and reduce time controls in the future to induce more errors. Just like test cricket, classical chess may face heat from shorter formats which is a tragedy.
 
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Swashbuckler said:
Scandal erupts in World Chess Championship showdown


Basically a short clip of Caruana's training has been revealed by St Louis Chess Club. It showed his seconds, reading material and a laptop screen with opening analysis. Some heads need to roll in his camp. This might be a huge psychological turning point in the match.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/scandal-erupts-in-world-chess-championship-showdown/news-story/df456c70fdb280f0c757c75e401759e3
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I believe this happened before the 4th game, which was drawn.
 
Napa said:
I believe this happened before the 4th game, which was drawn.
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Yes before G4. They were asked about it in the post game press conference. Caruana declined to answer, Carlsen said he was yet to see it. Come to think of it, what if it is a double bluff by Team Fabi to misguide the Norwegian camp?
 
Swashbuckler said:
Yes before G4. They were asked about it in the post game press conference. Caruana declined to answer, Carlsen said he was yet to see it. Come to think of it, what if it is a double bluff by Team Fabi to misguide the Norwegian camp?
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All kinds of psychological ploys are attempted, so I would not be surprised if this was a misdirection by Team Fabi. No harm in having Carlsen waste mental energy wondering "should I think about the book he was reading or not?".
 
Didn't follow most of the WCC because I was following Tata Steel Chess Kolkata. Brilliantly organized, Nakamura won rapid section while Anand beat Naka in a playoff to clinch the blitz portion. Yesterday saw a stunning comeback by Vishy (soon to turn 49 !!!) to win the title in front of a packed Indian crowd, some high quality entertaining games for blitz standards. Praggnanandhaa (beat Karjakin with black) and Nihal made impressive super tournament debuts, future of Indian chess is bright. Now I can watch the title bout in peace.
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] did you subscribe to the official site of the Championship or just watching on chess24/chess.com/chessbomb? Asking because I don't know if it is worth it, many are saying the coverage is poor. But I want to see the body language of the players, so undecided.
 
Napa said:
All kinds of psychological ploys are attempted, so I would not be surprised if this was a misdirection by Team Fabi. No harm in having Carlsen waste mental energy wondering "should I think about the book he was reading or not?".
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The more interesting thing is that the identity of the seconds has been revealed. Also the laptop screen's zoomed portion must have given Team Carlsen some idea about the opponent's opening strategy.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Finished a morning run, got myself an Americano and the newspaper and then I see this on <a href="https://twitter.com/CNN?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@CNN</a>, between golf and tennis. But some say it isn't news. <a href="https://t.co/Paq7kAFnm9">pic.twitter.com/Paq7kAFnm9</a></p>— Olimpiu G. Urcan (@olimpiuurcan) <a href="https://twitter.com/olimpiuurcan/status/1062874683157110784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Big psychological moment in the match: Fabiano Caruana understandably declines to comment on the laptop screen video mishap. Magnus Carlsen brings down the house. <a href="https://t.co/524ZePhAHk">pic.twitter.com/524ZePhAHk</a></p>— Olimpiu G. Urcan (@olimpiuurcan) <a href="https://twitter.com/olimpiuurcan/status/1062403808645414912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This morning a 2-minute clip from one of Caruana's training camps was uploaded on YouTube (now deleted). It featured various activities, chess included. Viewers could also see a laptop screen with a ChessBase file laid open. The greatest intel blunder in chess history or a hoax? <a href="https://t.co/nwHL75M2cC">pic.twitter.com/nwHL75M2cC</a></p>— Olimpiu G. Urcan (@olimpiuurcan) <a href="https://twitter.com/olimpiuurcan/status/1062334344193175552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Swashbuckler said:
Didn't follow most of the WCC because I was following Tata Steel Chess Kolkata. Brilliantly organized, Nakamura won rapid section while Anand beat Naka in a playoff to clinch the blitz portion. Yesterday saw a stunning comeback by Vishy (soon to turn 49 !!!) to win the title in front of a packed Indian crowd, some high quality entertaining games for blitz standards. Praggnanandhaa (beat Karjakin with black) and Nihal made impressive super tournament debuts, future of Indian chess is bright. Now I can watch the title bout in peace.
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] did you subscribe to the official site of the Championship or just watching on chess24/chess.com/chessbomb? Asking because I don't know if it is worth it, many are saying the coverage is poor. But I want to see the body language of the players, so undecided.
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I don't subscribe but just follow it on chessbomb. I suppose it really depends upon level of interest. Watching the players live is for those with a lot of interest.
 
Swashbuckler said:
The more interesting thing is that the identity of the seconds has been revealed. Also the laptop screen's zoomed portion must have given Team Carlsen some idea about the opponent's opening strategy.
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Unless Caruana rented those GMs to appear in his video clip and is really using someone other GMs. That would be a great fake, worthy of a future World Chess Champion :)
 
Swashbuckler said:
Didn't follow most of the WCC because I was following Tata Steel Chess Kolkata. Brilliantly organized, Nakamura won rapid section while Anand beat Naka in a playoff to clinch the blitz portion. Yesterday saw a stunning comeback by Vishy (soon to turn 49 !!!) to win the title in front of a packed Indian crowd, some high quality entertaining games for blitz standards. Praggnanandhaa (beat Karjakin with black) and Nihal made impressive super tournament debuts, future of Indian chess is bright. Now I can watch the title bout in peace.
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] did you subscribe to the official site of the Championship or just watching on chess24/chess.com/chessbomb? Asking because I don't know if it is worth it, many are saying the coverage is poor. But I want to see the body language of the players, so undecided.
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Thanks for mentioning the blitz part of Tata Steel, went and checked it out. Very nice to see Anand triumph. Naka is especially well known for his blitz prowess.
 
Napa said:
I don't subscribe but just follow it on chessbomb. I suppose it really depends upon level of interest. Watching the players live is for those with a lot of interest.
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Follow it on chess24, much better than chessbomb IMO. Svidler and Grischuk are providing excellent commentary.

Napa said:
Unless Caruana rented those GMs to appear in his video clip and is really using someone other GMs. That would be a great fake, worthy of a future World Chess Champion :)
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I don't think it is fake because Rustam Kasimdzhanov, Leinier Dominguez, Cristian Chirila and Alejandro Ramirez who were shown in the original clip seconded him in the Berlin Candidates. Rustam has been his main second for 2 years now. Interesting thing is Kasimdzhanov is Caruana's team captain, Peter Heine Nielsen is Carlsen's team captain. Both of them were long time seconds of Anand assisting him in his 2008, '10 and '12 title matches against Kramnik/Topalov/Gelfand. In that sense Anand's shadow looms large over this match and some of his opening ideas may feature. If there is something to exploit based on those laptop screen lines you can bet Peter will exploit to the maximum since he and Rustam were colleagues for many years.

Napa said:
Thanks for mentioning the blitz part of Tata Steel, went and checked it out. Very nice to see Anand triumph. Naka is especially well known for his blitz prowess.
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Should have seen it live, was an astonishing comeback after a so-so 1st half. Yesterday he scored 7.5/9 and tied with Naka before crushing him in the playoff. He must thank little Prag who did the difficult job of holding Naka with black in the final round. You can try chesstv (Trent, Tania commentating) or here is the best clip (Chessbase India) I could find on Youtube about the finishing portion of yesterday.
 
Swashbuckler said:
Follow it on chess24, much better than chessbomb IMO. Svidler and Grischuk are providing excellent commentary.



I don't think it is fake because Rustam Kasimdzhanov, Leinier Dominguez, Cristian Chirila and Alejandro Ramirez who were shown in the original clip seconded him in the Berlin Candidates. Rustam has been his main second for 2 years now. Interesting thing is Kasimdzhanov is Caruana's team captain, Peter Heine Nielsen is Carlsen's team captain. Both of them were long time seconds of Anand assisting him in his 2008, '10 and '12 title matches against Kramnik/Topalov/Gelfand. In that sense Anand's shadow looms large over this match and some of his opening ideas may feature. If there is something to exploit based on those laptop screen lines you can bet Peter will exploit to the maximum since he and Rustam were colleagues for many years.



Should have seen it live, was an astonishing comeback after a so-so 1st half. Yesterday he scored 7.5/9 and tied with Naka before crushing him in the playoff. He must thank little Prag who did the difficult job of holding Naka with black in the final round. You can try chesstv (Trent, Tania commentating) or here is the best clip (Chessbase India) I could find on Youtube about the finishing portion of yesterday.
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Will try chess24. Thanks again for the information and your thoughts :)
 
Game 5 draw, now Carlsen will have 2 consecutive whites. Only good news so far is the absence of Berlins.
 
Another draw, really hope Carlsen goes for a win in the next 2 with white cuz these 30 move draws are getting boring
 
Another draw but at least it was nerve wracking. Grischuk's commentary was gold. Hope second half has more fight.
 
Swashbuckler said:
Another draw but at least it was nerve wracking. Grischuk's commentary was gold. Hope second half has more fight.
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Guramishvilli is way out of her league with Grischuk and Svidler, she kept suggesting moves that got shot down instantly :)))
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Guramishvilli is way out of her league with Grischuk and Svidler, she kept suggesting moves that got shot down instantly :)))
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Yeah I mean strength-wise she is way below their league but I enjoy her presence. She asks a lot of questions that pass the minds of players below master level. Leave it to those 2 and I am pretty sure they will talk Greek and Latin and stuff will fly over our heads. Sometimes a person like Sopiko can bring the average viewer's pov across to those 2 who then can slow down, or go into more detail to explain to the audience at large.

In the 2014 World Championship, Sopiko and Svidler gave commentary with Nepo joining in for a couple of rounds. That Sopiko was out of place because she mostly would keep mum, but with added experience of working with chess24 she has become a better commentator and learnt to bring something new to the table. I actually think she is doing a fantastic job.
 
Swashbuckler said:
Yeah I mean strength-wise she is way below their league but I enjoy her presence. She asks a lot of questions that pass the minds of players below master level. Leave it to those 2 and I am pretty sure they will talk Greek and Latin and stuff will fly over our heads. Sometimes a person like Sopiko can bring the average viewer's pov across to those 2 who then can slow down, or go into more detail to explain to the audience at large.

In the 2014 World Championship, Sopiko and Svidler gave commentary with Nepo joining in for a couple of rounds. That Sopiko was out of place because she mostly would keep mum, but with added experience of working with chess24 she has become a better commentator and learnt to bring something new to the table. I actually think she is doing a fantastic job.
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Would love to see Nepo join, Carlsen has had problems against him and he almost won Russia the Olympiad recently only for Ding Liren and co. to go on a rampage
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Would love to see Nepo join, Carlsen has had problems against him and he almost won Russia the Olympiad recently only for Ding Liren and co. to go on a rampage
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Nepo is a fun player, want to see him fight for the title one day, he is stylistically the opposite of Carlsen, a gifted tactician. I think Nepo and Karjakin are giving Russian commentary along with Shipov, Potkin etc. Anish Giri is joining chess24 broadcast later on, MVL will be with chess.com while Kasparov, Kramnik, Anand and Leko will join the St Louis guys. Many choices for us viewers but I think I will stick with the one that has Grischuk.
 
Swashbuckler said:
Nepo is a fun player, want to see him fight for the title one day, he is stylistically the opposite of Carlsen, a gifted tactician. I think Nepo and Karjakin are giving Russian commentary along with Shipov, Potkin etc. Anish Giri is joining chess24 broadcast later on, MVL will be with chess.com while Kasparov, Kramnik, Anand and Leko will join the St Louis guys. Many choices for us viewers but I think I will stick with the one that has Grischuk.
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Giri must be loving all the draws :P

I'll take a gander at the St. Louis coverage, a dream team of analysts that
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Giri must be loving all the draws :P

I'll take a gander at the St. Louis coverage, a dream team of analysts that
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I have a nagging suspicion that the day Giri joins the commentary panel (G9 replacing his wife), we will get a decisive result :P. That will be the ultimate troll move of this otherwise boring match, imagine the memes and reactions if that were to happen !!!

St Louis coverage involves Jen, Yasser, Maurice with a special guest every day. During day 1 I saw Kasparov for 40 minutes, yesterday Anand joined for 30 odd minutes and he said he will join for later rounds or tie break if applicable. Yasser said that Leko will tune in today and I am looking forward to that segment because he is an excellent analyst. The reason chess24 is better is because in St Louis coverage the special guests don't stay for the whole show. And it is torture listening to Jen's voice or Maurice's hyper excited reading of engine lines with zero insight, literally Yasser has to carry the show every time.
 
Swashbuckler said:
I have a nagging suspicion that the day Giri joins the commentary panel (G9 replacing his wife), we will get a decisive result :P. That will be the ultimate troll move of this otherwise boring match, imagine the memes and reactions if that were to happen !!!

St Louis coverage involves Jen, Yasser, Maurice with a special guest every day. During day 1 I saw Kasparov for 40 minutes, yesterday Anand joined for 30 odd minutes and he said he will join for later rounds or tie break if applicable. Yasser said that Leko will tune in today and I am looking forward to that segment because he is an excellent analyst. The reason chess24 is better is because in St Louis coverage the special guests don't stay for the whole show. And it is torture listening to Jen's voice or Maurice's hyper excited reading of engine lines with zero insight, literally Yasser has to carry the show every time.
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Seems like Caruana is trying to get a win before the curse of Giri strikes :P

P.S. Grischuk is hilarious :)))
 
in_cutter said:
Where can this be watched?
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Best is https://chess24.com/en, it is free and has expert commentary by high class GMs, also the evaluation is decent (but not best). Use it along with http://analysis.sesse.net/ which is a Norwegian supercomputer with very deep analysis. I prefer the combo of live commentary of chess24 and engine evaluation of sesse. The only thing you will be missing is the live video of players but don't fret about that, it is available only in the official site and costly, with poor coverage, technical snags and simply not worth it now that we are in the finishing stages.

Some of the twitter handles you can follow are:
https://twitter.com/olimpiuurcan
https://twitter.com/TarjeiJS
https://twitter.com/GMjtis
https://twitter.com/chess24com
https://twitter.com/chesscom
https://twitter.com/ChessBase

This should suffice because they will share relevant match articles, opinions, reports, videos, GIFs, Norwegian broadcast (NRK, VG etc) links, player reactions, anecdotes etc.

I hope this will be enough. In case you want more I am happy to oblige you with a few more links :).
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Seems like Caruana is trying to get a win before the curse of Giri strikes :P

P.S. Grischuk is hilarious :)))
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Another draw :69:, huge opportunity missed by Caruana. 4 to go and then rapid/blitz tie breaks where Magnus is an overwhelming favorite.
 
9th consecutive draw, breaks the record of Kasparov vs Anand, 1995 which started with 8 draws. Going out on a limb and saying that Carlsen has declined a lot and won't stay world champ for long even if he scrapes through here, he has lost the patience and killer instinct that made him so great in the 2012-15 period.

Of course in speed chess he reigns supreme but classical is the real deal like test cricket and he is just first among equals right now. Maybe losing this title will do him more good in the long run. Kasparov played some sparkling chess after the London debacle, Kramnik was resurrected after losing the Battle of Bonn, even Vishy had a mini revival in his mid 40s after losing in Chennai. The weight of the crown can sometimes be too heavy for the bearer, same with MC who is playing stale chess at the moment.

A world champion should show more inspiration, after all the world of chess takes the cue from his style and the opening choices and trends are reflected in the wider community at large. Even Fabi has failed to seize the moment, a potential world champ must look to take the initiative and not be so conservative during the moment of truth. Unless these 2 light some sparks in the remaining 3 rounds this match will be a huge letdown. Kramnik-Leko and Anand-Gelfand had more decisive games than this borefest, let that sink in.
 
Tense position now, Magnus has a dangerous kingside attack developing. Anish Giri is an annoying commentator [MENTION=139190]Adijazz1706[/MENTION], speaks too fast and talks over Svidler :sanga. Today both Kasparov and Anand will join the St Louis coverage, that should be worth watching.
 
Swashbuckler said:
Tense position now, Magnus has a dangerous kingside attack developing. Anish Giri is an annoying commentator [MENTION=139190]Adijazz1706[/MENTION], speaks too fast and talks over Svidler :sanga. Today both Kasparov and Anand will join the St Louis coverage, that should be worth watching.
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Kasparov was laying into Carlsen with his unimaginative play earlier, he should be happy now. Also, did I mention Grischuk is really funny? :)))
 
Final stretch now, only 2 games to go before the tiebreaks. Caruana can become the 1st ever player to become world champion without winning a single classical game. In theory there can be a champion without getting a single win including rapid/blitz provided he gets black in the Armageddon game. Hope it doesn't happen, will make a mockery of our beautiful game. There have been 16 undisputed world champions in the last 132 years starting from Steinitz and I am sorry Caruana doesn't deserve to enter that prestigious club without winning a single classical game, even Euwe's fluke victory over Alekhine was digestible. I will stay neutral the next 2 days but if it goes to TB hope Magnus crushes the living daylights out of the Italian American.
 
The world championship tilt between Magnus Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana will be decided in a quickfire tie-breaker after Monday’s Game 12 ended in a draw that shocked onlookers in light of the champion’s advantages in position and time and left the best-of-12-games match in a historic 6-all deadlock.

Magnus Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana draw in Game 12 – live!
Read more
The latest bloodless result, the 12th draw between the world’s top two players in as many contests, ensured the €1m ($1.14m) showdown in London will go down as the first title match in which no decisive results were managed in the recognized 132-year history of world championship play.

“I was a bit surprised by the draw offer,” the 26-year-old Caruana said. “I can never be better (than move 31). And I don’t really have any active ideas. If anything, black is better. At least I thought was over the worst of it. I thought it was much more dangerous a few moves ago.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ship-game-12-carlsen-caruana?CMP=share_btn_tw
 
Cowardly decision by Magnus today, never seen anything like this in a World Championship match, Caissa will not be pleased. The worst title match I have ever seen in my life, neither of them deserves to wear the Laurel wreath on Wednesday. Never been this much disgusted with the chess world in a long time.
 
Worst part is that in 2020 one of these cowards will be still there playing the Championship match. For the mugfest they have exhibited the past fortnight they must be dismissed from at least the next 2 cycles, but no we will get to see the abomination of one of these two staying as Champ for the next 2 years. It isn't like they are old, both are in their 20s and at their prime, if not peak. Drawmaster Leko and 45 year old Gelfand had more stomach than these young superstars, never mind the past greats.

Never trust ELO in this age of rating inflation, Carlsen will never ever be near Kasparov in the GOAT race, frankly it is insulting. Lucky bum must thank the skies that he had to face an aged weakened declining generation in his peak years and his very own weak millennial generation which he can't seem to dominate that well. Contrast that to what Garry had to face between 1985 to 2005, and he still maintained domination over all his great rivals at their peak/prime (including 3 certified ATGs and at least 2 other worldly geniuses just short of ATG tag). He ain't no Kasparov and Caruana definitely ain't no Fischer no matter how hard the Western media tries, they can hoodwink the casuals but the real followers of the game will know better.
 
I am 99.99% sure that this is the only instance of a title match featuring ZERO decisive games in the classical portion. Western press and Carlsen ******* lost their marbles when middle aged Anand and Gelfand had a mere 2 decisive games in 2012, Moscow and similar disgust was expressed after Kramnik-Leko in 2004, Brissago. Expecting pin drop silence or some weird justification in the aftermath of this farce, after all 1st time in over 100 years that both participants are from the West and their honour must be defended at all costs.
 
Swashbuckler said:
Worst part is that in 2020 one of these cowards will be still there playing the Championship match. For the mugfest they have exhibited the past fortnight they must be dismissed from at least the next 2 cycles, but no we will get to see the abomination of one of these two staying as Champ for the next 2 years. It isn't like they are old, both are in their 20s and at their prime, if not peak. Drawmaster Leko and 45 year old Gelfand had more stomach than these young superstars, never mind the past greats.

Never trust ELO in this age of rating inflation, Carlsen will never ever be near Kasparov in the GOAT race, frankly it is insulting. Lucky bum must thank the skies that he had to face an aged weakened declining generation in his peak years and his very own weak millennial generation which he can't seem to dominate that well. Contrast that to what Garry had to face between 1985 to 2005, and he still maintained domination over all his great rivals at their peak/prime (including 3 certified ATGs and at least 2 other worldly geniuses just short of ATG tag). He ain't no Kasparov and Caruana definitely ain't no Fischer no matter how hard the Western media tries, they can hoodwink the casuals but the real followers of the game will know better.
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Magnus isn't anywhere near the 2 Ks or Kapa. I'd prefer to watch someone like Tal or Nezhy play 100 games rather than see any of these again. Why oh why would you pffer a draw being 40 mins vs 9 mins up on the clock :facepalm:
 
Swashbuckler said:
Worst part is that in 2020 one of these cowards will be still there playing the Championship match. For the mugfest they have exhibited the past fortnight they must be dismissed from at least the next 2 cycles, but no we will get to see the abomination of one of these two staying as Champ for the next 2 years. It isn't like they are old, both are in their 20s and at their prime, if not peak. Drawmaster Leko and 45 year old Gelfand had more stomach than these young superstars, never mind the past greats.

Never trust ELO in this age of rating inflation, Carlsen will never ever be near Kasparov in the GOAT race, frankly it is insulting. Lucky bum must thank the skies that he had to face an aged weakened declining generation in his peak years and his very own weak millennial generation which he can't seem to dominate that well. Contrast that to what Garry had to face between 1985 to 2005, and he still maintained domination over all his great rivals at their peak/prime (including 3 certified ATGs and at least 2 other worldly geniuses just short of ATG tag). He ain't no Kasparov and Caruana definitely ain't no Fischer no matter how hard the Western media tries, they can hoodwink the casuals but the real followers of the game will know better.
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Just fyi, Kasparov vs Karpov is 21-19, hardly dominance. I don't like to see 'the constricter' being unfairly maligned as someone way behind Kasparov as a player, particularly seeing Linares 1994 where Anatoly was unstoppable. It was closer than most remember between the 2 Ks
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Magnus isn't anywhere near the 2 Ks or Kapa. I'd prefer to watch someone like Tal or Nezhy play 100 games rather than see any of these again. Why oh why would you pffer a draw being 40 mins vs 9 mins up on the clock :facepalm:
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I had ordered nice takeaway and was settling into a nice space to enjoy a thrilling finale. It had everything going, an exciting unbalanced position, heavy pieces and a high chance of decisive result with all that crazy time trouble for Caruana. Literally nothing to lose for Magnus, at least play out the 40 damn moves !!!! I mean what on Earth was that, how can a World Champion not have the heart to decide a classical world title match in the classical format when the opportunity presents itself so favorably? Giri, Grishcuk and Svidler named their top 5 players of all time in the previous game while commentating and all had Magnus in their list, they might have to reconsider it now.
 
Wow! What a shocker! Caruana was in a slightly worse position, under time pressure and Carlsen offers up the draw? - unbelievable!!

The only reasoning I can provide is that Carlsen was losing his nerves.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Just fyi, Kasparov vs Karpov is 21-19, hardly dominance. I don't like to see 'the constricter' being unfairly maligned as someone way behind Kasparov as a player, particularly seeing Linares 1994 where Anatoly was unstoppable. It was closer than most remember between the 2 Ks
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I am aware of the K-K matches and Karpov's impressive tournament run from 1975-85. I have the highest respect for the boa constrictor as a chess master. But I could never warm up to him. The way he got the title in 1975 via forfeit, the influence of Kremlin/KGB in his title matches against Korchnoi, the circumstances in which 1984 match was called off, the robbery in Lausanne, 1998. Maybe I am biased when assessing him but somehow I could never put him in the Kasparov league. He had a great record against GK but as in all contests, match ups matter and he was a difficult opponent for Kasparov due to his playing style and mental invulnerability against the particular opponent. Kasparov didn't dominate Karpov in the matches but overall he got the job done and was more impressive in super tournament runs as well as the fact that he was number 1 from 1985 to 2005, every single week. When I was talking about domination I was implying across all facets including ideas, creativity, popularity, influence, opening theory development and not just H2H or title matches. I never meant to disrespect Karpov, I respect all the greats and Karpov is the top tier of those very greats :).

Linares 1994 is one of my all time favorite tournaments in the same status as Linares 1999, Wijk Aan Zee 2001, Las Palmas 1996 and Candidates 2013. Before the tournament GK commented that the winner should call himself best in the world and the 40+ ex champion Karpov delivered his greatest tournament triumph. His win over young Topalov in that edition is one of my most favourite games, it was his very own 'Immortal' and deserves to be in contention for the GOAT chess game.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Just fyi, Kasparov vs Karpov is 21-19, hardly dominance. I don't like to see 'the constricter' being unfairly maligned as someone way behind Kasparov as a player, particularly seeing Linares 1994 where Anatoly was unstoppable. It was closer than most remember between the 2 Ks
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Also, Kasparov is 12 years younger than Karpov. So it is quite possible that if they had been of the same age, Karpov would have been ahead in the head to head. Can't really compare two players so different in age merely based on their head to head, just like one can't do the same for Anand and Carlsen.
 
Swashbuckler said:
I am aware of the K-K matches and Karpov's impressive tournament run from 1975-85. I have the highest respect for the boa constrictor as a chess master. But I could never warm up to him. The way he got the title in 1975 via forfeit, the influence of Kremlin/KGB in his title matches against Korchnoi, the circumstances in which 1984 match was called off, the robbery in Lausanne, 1998. Maybe I am biased when assessing him but somehow I could never put him in the Kasparov league. He had a great record against GK but as in all contests, match ups matter and he was a difficult opponent for Kasparov due to his playing style and mental invulnerability against the particular opponent. Kasparov didn't dominate Karpov in the matches but overall he got the job done and was more impressive in super tournament runs as well as the fact that he was number 1 from 1985 to 2005, every single week. When I was talking about domination I was implying across all facets including ideas, creativity, popularity, influence, opening theory development and not just H2H or title matches. I never meant to disrespect Karpov, I respect all the greats and Karpov is the top tier of those very greats :).

Linares 1994 is one of my all time favorite tournaments in the same status as Linares 1999, Wijk Aan Zee 2001, Las Palmas 1996 and Candidates 2013. Before the tournament GK commented that the winner should call himself best in the world and the 40+ ex champion Karpov delivered his greatest tournament triumph. His win over young Topalov in that edition is one of my most favourite games, it was his very own 'Immortal' and deserves to be in contention for the GOAT chess game.
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Fischer is to blame for forfeiting after FIDE and Karpov refused to give in to his stupid 'First to 10 wins' demand which could've led to 50+games being played. You call Lausanne a robbery due to Anand not having enough rest before the match and hence being tired, and in the same post call 1984 cancellation bad for Karpov even though he was having health problems (lost like 25 pounds) in a 5 month long match against a young opponent 12 years his junior. What gives?
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Fischer is to blame for forfeiting after FIDE and Karpov refused to give in to his stupid 'First to 10 wins' demand which could've led to 50+games being played. You call Lausanne a robbery due to Anand not having enough rest before the match and hence being tired, and in the same post call 1984 cancellation bad for Karpov even though he was having health problems (lost like 25 pounds) in a 5 month long match against a young opponent 12 years his junior. What gives?
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1. I am not faulting Karpov for the 1975 title. Just the way he got it without overthrowing the sitting champ was weird. I can't think of a similar instance for any other world champion. It wasn't his fault but because of circumstances beyond his control there will always be a question mark attached to the title.

2. Lausanne was a robbery to placate Karpov because Kremlin had disowned the world champion Kasparov because of his hostile anti Russia stance during the Chechen war. A brutal 128 player KO followed by the match within 48 hours against the well rested Russian wasn't fair. Anand was an unfortunate victim, he was a far better player at that point of time but lost in the tie breaks.

3. 1984 match was called off because Kremlin wanted to protect the Russian against the outspoken outsider rebel. Karpov said in the pres conference that he wanted to continue the match as did Kasparov. It was Campomanes, the Soviet stooge who took orders from above to stop the match. Like in case of Lausanne the decision benefited only Karpov, story of his career, always getting the extra help from above. No wonder he was called Kremlin's darling back then, no way would their golden boy ever be touched come what may.

What is your opinion about Korchnoi-Karpov rivalry? The KGB held Korchnoi's wife and son hostage during the 1978 World Championship match. A KGB colonel even admitted later that the plan was to assassinate the defector (Korchnoi) and kill his family if he were to beat Karpov. How was Karpov not favored? How can any human being play a match under such stress. Karpov has always been a wilful puppet for Russian state and hence even after his top level career, he has made it big in business and politics without any struggle.
 
Swashbuckler said:
1. I am not faulting Karpov for the 1975 title. Just the way he got it without overthrowing the sitting champ was weird. I can't think of a similar instance for any other world champion. It wasn't his fault but because of circumstances beyond his control there will always be a question mark attached to the title.

2. Lausanne was a robbery to placate Karpov because Kremlin had disowned the world champion Kasparov because of his hostile anti Russia stance during the Chechen war. A brutal 128 player KO followed by the match within 48 hours against the well rested Russian wasn't fair. Anand was an unfortunate victim, he was a far better player at that point of time but lost in the tie breaks.

3. 1984 match was called off because Kremlin wanted to protect the Russian against the outspoken outsider rebel. Karpov said in the pres conference that he wanted to continue the match as did Kasparov. It was Campomanes, the Soviet stooge who took orders from above to stop the match. Like in case of Lausanne the decision benefited only Karpov, story of his career, always getting the extra help from above. No wonder he was called Kremlin's darling back then, no way would their golden boy ever be touched come what may.

What is your opinion about Korchnoi-Karpov rivalry? The KGB held Korchnoi's wife and son hostage during the 1978 World Championship match. A KGB colonel even admitted later that the plan was to assassinate the defector (Korchnoi) and kill his family if he were to beat Karpov. How was Karpov not favored? How can any human being play a match under such stress. Karpov has always been a wilful puppet for Russian state and hence even after his top level career, he has made it big in business and politics without any struggle.
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I didn't mention Korchnoi because I agree with you there, I was just curious as to why the health argument that applirs to Anand vs Karpov doesn't work for Karpov vs Kasparov
 
Adijazz1706 said:
I didn't mention Korchnoi because I agree with you there, I was just curious as to why the health argument that applirs to Anand vs Karpov doesn't work for Karpov vs Kasparov
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It is not just health argument, it is also a question of preparation. Let us leave aside the health argument in 1984 (even though Karpov said in the PC that he was willing to play and that the decision had come from elsewhere). Both those titans were locked in battle for many days and were prepared for each other. Here Anand had literally no time to prepare and was flown into Switzerland at short notice with no chance to formulate a match strategy. Those couple of days would have been spent in prize ceremony, travel, phone calls, euphoria etc. Meanwhile Karpov was sitting quietly observing the KO tournament and devising a match strategy based on likely winners, Anand was a runaway favorite (beast in KO format in his youth days) and surely Karpov would have followed him keenly. Anand's opening ideas would have been exposed in the tournament giving Karpov a clearer picture about the likely course of Anand's approach to the match.

I believe that even with a week's period to prepare the outcome would have been very different. I have read a few articles and books about that period of chess history and every single GM including pro Karpov Russians considered the Indian as the champion of that edition. In the prize ceremony Anand was cheered and clapped while Karpov's name was met with pin drop silence, this was even reported in 'New in Chess' by Dirk Jan ten Guezendam and confirmed later by Leontxo Garcia.

If you are familiar with Mark Dvoretsky (passed away recently) you will know him as one of the leading voices and most objective persons in the chess world. He said ' A colossal and undeserved handicap. At present and it is not only my view that Anand is far stronger than Karpov and he would surely have been successful if the play had been on equal terms. Karpov has legally become world champion but in the eyes of almost all the chess players he effectively isn't.' A week later in Wijk aan Zee Anand and Kramnik finished joint 1st while Karpov finished in the bottom half. It was again confirmed in Linares that year when Anand finished clear 1st ahead of Kasparov, Kramnik, Shirov, Ivanchuk, Topalov and Svidler in one of the strongest super tournaments of all time. Anand incidentally won the Chess Oscar in both 1997 and 1998, so that Karpov loss sticks like a sore thumb during his first creative peak phase.

I respect Karpov greatly man, in fact I believe he is the most under rated chess champion of all time. But it is equally true that he was the establishment man, never did he have to face any adversity in his playing career. To some extent even Kramnik fits that bill, he has never won a candidates or qualifying round to get a title match. Both are similar personalities and exhibit a certain political inclination that endears them to the Russian establishment which also happens to run FIDE. Bias is expected but it was excessive during USSR times which the likes of Botvinik and Karpov enjoyed to the fullest. I don't entirely fault them because of the prevailing political climate and status of chess for Soviets/Russians. But when it comes to rating greatness, those who came up from outside the system (Fischer) or those who went against the Russian establishment (Kasparov, Korchnoi) deserve some extra credit points.
 
Swashbuckler said:
It is not just health argument, it is also a question of preparation. Let us leave aside the health argument in 1984 (even though Karpov said in the PC that he was willing to play and that the decision had come from elsewhere). Both those titans were locked in battle for many days and were prepared for each other. Here Anand had literally no time to prepare and was flown into Switzerland at short notice with no chance to formulate a match strategy. Those couple of days would have been spent in prize ceremony, travel, phone calls, euphoria etc. Meanwhile Karpov was sitting quietly observing the KO tournament and devising a match strategy based on likely winners, Anand was a runaway favorite (beast in KO format in his youth days) and surely Karpov would have followed him keenly. Anand's opening ideas would have been exposed in the tournament giving Karpov a clearer picture about the likely course of Anand's approach to the match.

I believe that even with a week's period to prepare the outcome would have been very different. I have read a few articles and books about that period of chess history and every single GM including pro Karpov Russians considered the Indian as the champion of that edition. In the prize ceremony Anand was cheered and clapped while Karpov's name was met with pin drop silence, this was even reported in 'New in Chess' by Dirk Jan ten Guezendam and confirmed later by Leontxo Garcia.

If you are familiar with Mark Dvoretsky (passed away recently) you will know him as one of the leading voices and most objective persons in the chess world. He said ' A colossal and undeserved handicap. At present and it is not only my view that Anand is far stronger than Karpov and he would surely have been successful if the play had been on equal terms. Karpov has legally become world champion but in the eyes of almost all the chess players he effectively isn't.' A week later in Wijk aan Zee Anand and Kramnik finished joint 1st while Karpov finished in the bottom half. It was again confirmed in Linares that year when Anand finished clear 1st ahead of Kasparov, Kramnik, Shirov, Ivanchuk, Topalov and Svidler in one of the strongest super tournaments of all time. Anand incidentally won the Chess Oscar in both 1997 and 1998, so that Karpov loss sticks like a sore thumb during his first creative peak phase.

I respect Karpov greatly man, in fact I believe he is the most under rated chess champion of all time. But it is equally true that he was the establishment man, never did he have to face any adversity in his playing career. To some extent even Kramnik fits that bill, he has never won a candidates or qualifying round to get a title match. Both are similar personalities and exhibit a certain political inclination that endears them to the Russian establishment which also happens to run FIDE. Bias is expected but it was excessive during USSR times which the likes of Botvinik and Karpov enjoyed to the fullest. I don't entirely fault them because of the prevailing political climate and status of chess for Soviets/Russians. But when it comes to rating greatness, those who came up from outside the system (Fischer) or those who went against the Russian establishment (Kasparov, Korchnoi) deserve some extra credit points.
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Botvinnik might even have won against Petrosian if he was allowed a rematch, the guy would've been much more renowned if he played more regularly in tournaments instead of showing up rusty in WCCs.
 
People actually discuss this? To each their own I guess...
 
Slog said:
People actually discuss this? To each their own I guess...
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Well the World Championship is a prestigious event and the winners are more popular and globally well known than the elite cricketers, so why not? And they are remembered decades or in some cases even centuries after they die. We don't discuss normal chess tournaments, just this one event which takes place once in 2 years. There are actually threads here which spread anger, gloom and negativity, this one at least is neutral and won't affect anyone's mind in a bad way, those interested like to discuss and those that are uninterested skip this thread, everyone happy :).
 
Swashbuckler said:
Well the World Championship is a prestigious event and the winners are more popular and globally well known than the elite cricketers, so why not? And they are remembered decades or in some cases even centuries after they die. We don't discuss normal chess tournaments, just this one event which takes place once in 2 years. There are actually threads here which spread anger, gloom and negativity, this one at least is neutral and won't affect anyone's mind in a bad way, those interested like to discuss and those that are uninterested skip this thread, everyone happy :).
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Haha i didnt mean it negatively. I just didnt know it was an actual thing to analyze it as fans.

Pretty cool in a way
 
Carlsen stomps his rival in the rapid playoff 3-0 and wins his 4th World Chess Championship Crown, jumps above Kramnik and now tied with Alekhine and Steinitz. Botvinik, Anand are at 5 while Karpov, Kasparov, Lasker have 6. Can see MC win more than 6 but to be regarded as GOAT he needs to do more. Anyway a boring match was saved by the exciting tie breaks and excellent commentary by the c24 team (Sasha the expert=:don confirmed), commiserations to Caruana and I think this isn't the last we have seen of the young man in a title clash. Like all chess fans I acknowledge the extension of Carlsen's reign for 2 more years, nothing more and nothing less.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It's FINALLY over!<br><br>Magnus Carlsen defeats Fabiano Caruana and retains his world title ♟️<a href="https://t.co/mo87oQGhrK">https://t.co/mo87oQGhrK</a> <a href="https://t.co/baGrr4zSIS">pic.twitter.com/baGrr4zSIS</a></p>— Sports Illustrated (@SInow) <a href="https://twitter.com/SInow/status/1067847749499084800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 28, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
World Championships should be timeless, concluding them with rapid just kills the point.

Congrats to Magnus, but it simply isn't the same when he couldn't win a single classical game.
 
The Norwegian was absent when the World Chess Federation (FIDE) held an online Nations Cup between Russia, United States, Europe, China, India and a Rest of the World team.

Yet the 29-year-old has launched his own tour on the back of the Magnus Carlsen Invitational held earlier this month.

“The Invitational was a lot of fun and we heard great feedback from the players, our broadcast partners and the viewers,” Carlsen said in a statement.

The Invitational will serve as the first leg of his new tour.

There will be three more “majors” before a grand final in August featuring winners of the individual tournaments, the organisers said.

“While physical chess tournaments and sports are still either cancelled or postponed, bringing an entire chess tour online is what I feel is right for chess now,” Carlsen added.

Chess tournaments have been disrupted amid the coronavirus outbreak.

The Candidates Tournament, one of FIDE’s flagship events, had to be halted midway through in March, while the Chess Olympiad had to be postponed to 2021.

Carlsen, Hikaru Nakamura, Ding Liren, and Iranian prodigy Alireza Firouzja — who were the top four in the first leg — will join eight new players in the tour’s next event, Lindores Abbey Rapid Challenge, which starts on Tuesday.
 
Anyone following the Candidates? Today is the final round with 4 players in the hunt: Gukesh, Nakamura, Nepomniachtchi and Caruana. One of the best candidates tournaments going down the wire.
 
Swashbuckler said:
Anyone following the Candidates? Today is the final round with 4 players in the hunt: Gukesh, Nakamura, Nepomniachtchi and Caruana. One of the best candidates tournaments going down the wire.
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Do you play chess?

What is your rating if you don’t mind me asking?
 
cricketjoshila said:
Gukesh qualifies by winning the candidates tournament.
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I don't follow the chess scene, congratulations to Gukesh.

Indian chess scene has been so good ever since Anand. With time it will only continue to become bigger and better.
The biggest enemy of Indian chess scene is Instagram/Youtube reels. Hopefully the parents of the smart and talented kids don’t let them fall for that crap.
 
big_gamer007 said:
I don't follow the chess scene, congratulations to Gukesh.

Indian chess scene has been so good ever since Anand. With time it will only continue to become bigger and better.
The biggest enemy of Indian chess scene is Instagram/Youtube reels. Hopefully the parents of the smart and talented kids don’t let them fall for that crap.
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Gukesh
Pragg
Vidit

3 players in the candidates tournament.

Gukesh at 17 will be the youngest to play for the world championship.
 
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