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Would the result of the T20 World Cup final been different if Shaheen Afridi had not been injured?

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MenInG

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Tendulkar and Vaughan both think this injury had an impact. Your thoughts?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Congratulations England on winning your 2nd <a href="https://twitter.com/T20WorldCup?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@T20WorldCup</a>. 🏆<br>Fantastic achievement. 👏🏻 <br><br>It was a closely fought final and would’ve been even more interesting had Afridi not been injured.<br><br>What a roller coaster of a World Cup. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/T20WorldCupFinal?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#T20WorldCupFinal</a> <a href="https://t.co/1rNyFO7L7T">pic.twitter.com/1rNyFO7L7T</a></p>— Sachin Tendulkar (@sachin_rt) <a href="https://twitter.com/sachin_rt/status/1591769576697909248?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Have to say the <a href="https://twitter.com/iShaheenAfridi?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@iShaheenAfridi</a> Injury had a major impact on the outcome of the game .. Pakistan have once again been brilliant to watch .. they being so much to the world game .. �� <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ICCT20WorldCup2022Final?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ICCT20WorldCup2022Final</a></p>— Michael Vaughan (@MichaelVaughan) <a href="https://twitter.com/MichaelVaughan/status/1591757356861648897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
No, 41 runs 29 balls with liam livingstone, curran, woakes, chris jordan all to come
Stokes was already there with moin

They still would have chased it.
 
It would have gone to the last over and funny things do happen oen then but it was 80% in England favor even at that point
 
Sarwar89 said:
No, 41 runs 29 balls with liam livingstone, curran, woakes, chris jordan all to come
Stokes was already there with moin

They still would have chased it.
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Listen to Saj in this analysis he did for BBC today

He says that Pakistan were looking very sharp around that time and things could have easily gone our way

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 40%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/96w477" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Well, I think it wouldn't have made a big difference even if he had bowled because he is generally quite poor at the death overs. But yes, with him bowling the match would definitely have got to the last few balls and be more tense and exciting.
 
No. We didn’t have enough runs on the board to begin with. Besides, Shaheen is not very good at the death anyway.
 
Enfland would still had won but a panic would had settled in as Stokes was playing a match losing inning and that 6 and a 4 off iftikhar over changed the momentum back to England. Shaheen has learnt from his phainty last year, and has been bowling well even in his second spell as hewas becoming more and more match fit.
 
If he picked Ben Stokes in that over, it could have been tricky. If not, it wouldn't have mattered much
 
The next over from Waseem was expensive the fast bowlers have conceded runs in different knockout matches towards the end the same thing would’ve happened unless 2-3 wickets fell quickly.
 
Unfortunate injury curtailed his spell.Finish would have been tighter,but considering the manner England in the end cruised home in a waltz ,I doubt it would have turned the result of the game.
 
PakPremi said:
Enfland would still had won but a panic would had settled in as Stokes was playing a match losing inning and that 6 and a 4 off iftikhar over changed the momentum back to England. Shaheen has learnt from his phainty last year, and has been bowling well even in his second spell as hewas becoming more and more match fit.
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Fair asessment.appreciate.
 
Mamoon said:
No. We didn’t have enough runs on the board to begin with. Besides, Shaheen is not very good at the death anyway.
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You're right! Leaked a lot of runs (sixes) in last year semi against Australia and then went for plenty against Kohli and Hardik in the opening game. In both games we were in a winning position.

I think he has a lot to learn to become a lethal bowler. I hate people hyping him up and even comparing him to Akram. So, far he is great with swinging the new ball with pace. But he has to realize very soon top teams with know how to counter this threat.

I just hope success doesn't get into his head and he keeps on learning. It's rare for Pakistani players....only time will tell.
 
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England were still favourites...
But Pakistan would have been favourites with 20 more runs in the board.

However those saying NO with certainty are forgetting that conditions the game was played in..
The wicket had bounce and seam and batters were playing and missing regularly to both Rauf and Naseem.
England rode their luck by not nicking off to those deliveries...
 
It would have gone to the last over, and anything would be possible then. Those were key 11 deliveries at the end missed. And they hit iftikhar out the ground, and took the whole momentum after that over.
 
Xoib said:
It would have gone to the last over and funny things do happen oen then but it was 80% in England favor even at that point
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That's exactly what the bookmakers odds were at the end of 15th over.
 
greatest said:
You're right! Leaked a lot of runs (sixes) in last year semi against Australia and then went for plenty against Kohli and Hardik in the opening game. In both games we were in a winning position.
l
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You cannot judge his performance of India game, that was his first match after almost two months of not playing cricket and he was bowling gingerely not to aggravate his injury.
 
Wasim was the loose end, Shaheen may have brought it to the last over, a wicket here and there and England would/could/should have panicked, but this is another one of those ifs where we would never know for sure. In the end we have the solace we played well, we tried our best even with the low total and weren't rolled over by the mighty England. Ifti gave 15 in 5 balls and that changed the complexion, Wasim sprayed after that, had it been 8 runs in last 5 balls, who would know what would have happened.
 
pakistan didnt have enough runs, also no guarantees shaheen if fit would have taken wickets or kept runs down..He did his best.
 
Pakistan is a mentally weak team. They would have found a way to lose today even if they had scored 180 or if England needed 15 off the last over.

England would have found a way to score more runs in the middle-orders if the target was steeper.
 
Mamoon said:
No. We didn’t have enough runs on the board to begin with. Besides, Shaheen is not very good at the death anyway.
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India weren't in the final so not sure who the "we" is your talking about..

We didn't have enough on the board but in t20 you don't necessarily need to bowl a side out..you just need to tactically hold them off then strike regular blows..its was a close match because we made it a close match..you piyara desh got smashed to smithereens by the same team..lol
 
Mamoon said:
Pakistan is a mentally weak team. They would have found a way to lose today even if they had scored 180 or if England needed 15 off the last over.

England would have found a way to score more runs in the middle-orders if the target was steeper.
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Nah..mentally weak teams get smashed by ten wickets like yours did.
 
Well, going by what happened against Wade and Kohli not too long ago in much more difficult situations than the one England had…

I think we know what the result would have been
 
Shaheen can be a bottler in pressure situations ie the T20 2021 WC SF against Wade.
 
With the kind of batting fire power England had in the tank at that point, dont think SSA getting injured/not injured would have made a difference.

Pak lost the match when they could only make 31 of the last 5 overs.
 
Eng would still be the favs but the game would've gone down to the last over and anything could've happened from that point
 
It didn't help, but we would have probably lost anyway. No fault of the bowlers, they did a sterling job, just wasn't enough runs to defend against a top level international team. That England were still fighting to win two overs from the end was testament to Pakistan's bowling quality.
 
I don’t think you can compare to last year as this was a completely different pitch. Shaheens harmless delivery to Moeen was a dot. England were struggling.

Eng may still have won, but one thing is for sure it would have been a very tight game. But it is what it is. This was always the risk playing Shaheen in this World Cup.

I just hope the selfishness of the team management and selection panel hasn’t ruined a potentially great career. Knee injuries as I’ve said multiple times are no joke for a fast bowler.

Very few fast bowlers last very long after that, and even if they do they will be injury prone for the rest of their career. I hope I’m wrong, but if Shaheen does play another 5-7 years, he may very soon have to re-invent himself and utilise his height and bowling a hard length than the quick swing bowler he was.
 
Sarwar89 said:
No, 41 runs 29 balls with liam livingstone, curran, woakes, chris jordan all to come
Stokes was already there with moin

They still would have chased it.
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They may well have but it killed the dream dead right there.
I was always believing 92 would repeat itself until that point .
We were at the stage where Shaheen was ( n my head/hopes/dreams) about to replicate Wasim Akrams 2 wickets in 2 balls to rip the game WIDE OPEN
 
English batsmen looked nervous. Afridi's 11 extra balls would have made a difference imo or atleast run them close. Pressure does strange things to ya.
 
Game would’ve been on. We’ve seen before in t20 world cups of teams losing games with 7 off 6 or something. Things got close Vs India in the Asia cup on both occasions too. BD Vs India as well in the 2016 WC too.

And boundaries were hard to hit Vs tight bowling. Anything could’ve happened.

It also means we would have less garbage being bowled.

England were nervous throughout the game. Wides, no balls, Stokes especially. Anything coulda happened.
 
RexRex said:
English batsmen looked nervous. Afridi's 11 extra balls would have made a difference imo or atleast run them close. Pressure does strange things to ya.
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Just saw your post. Yep. You already said what I wanted to say.

11 deliveries is a lot of opportunities with the way he was going.

I just hope his career is safe. Reinjuring something that isn’t fully healed is tough.
 
bala977 said:
With the kind of batting fire power England had in the tank at that point, dont think SSA getting injured/not injured would have made a difference.

Pak lost the match when they could only make 31 of the last 5 overs.
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England attack is an average bowling attack. Can't believe Pakistan put up only 138 against them. Zimbabwe bowlers bowled faster than them. On that pitch Pakistan had a much much superior pace attack compared to England. Conditions helped seam bowling. Moment there is some pace on the pitch Pakistan batting is seriously found wanting. Zimbabwe/India/England all matches happened either at Perth or MCG.

If Pakistan bowlers had bowled to pakistan batsmen on this pitch they would have been all out under 100.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
England attack is an average bowling attack. Can't believe Pakistan put up only 138 against them. Zimbabwe bowlers bowled faster than them. On that pitch Pakistan had a much much superior pace attack compared to England. Conditions helped seam bowling. Moment there is some pace on the pitch Pakistan batting is seriously found wanting. Zimbabwe/India/England all matches happened either at Perth or MCG.

If Pakistan bowlers had bowled to pakistan batsmen on this pitch they would have been all out under 100.
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Stop crying!they might have an average bowling attack according to you! But in this world cup they have bowled great and hardly conceded many runs
 
jnaveen1980 said:
England attack is an average bowling attack. Can't believe Pakistan put up only 138 against them. Zimbabwe bowlers bowled faster than them. On that pitch Pakistan had a much much superior pace attack compared to England. Conditions helped seam bowling. Moment there is some pace on the pitch Pakistan batting is seriously found wanting. Zimbabwe/India/England all matches happened either at Perth or MCG.

If Pakistan bowlers had bowled to pakistan batsmen on this pitch they would have been all out under 100.
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Eng have bowled well throughout this WC.

They bowled well even in semis to restrict India to 168 on a flat wicket with short boundaries
 
7sins said:
Stop crying!they might have an average bowling attack according to you! But in this world cup they have bowled great and hardly conceded many runs
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This sam curran is a pie chucker. You will see in the next world cup.
 
Ashmal said:
Eng have bowled well throughout this WC.

They bowled well even in semis to restrict India to 168 on a flat wicket with short boundaries
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That was more due to our notorious top order who went slow even against other sides. it was not because it was England. Mostly SKY made up for us.
 
Definitely had an impact . Pakistan were right back in the game . England had scored 50 in the power play and in the next 9 overs they had mustered only 45 runs and had played and missed numerous times .

41 of 29 with your best bowler at the helm we definitely were in with a shot . England nearly choked it .
 
England needed 41 off 29 balls when Shaheen went off and Shaheen had 11 of those balls left to bowl.

It could have gone either way but Iftikhar finishing off Shaheen's over went for 13 runs.

Key moment in the match.
 
What [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] said...Pakistan were going to take this long..OT was very nervy..the ifti over kill3d it...end of..sad but doesn't matter..we bowled like legends..young nassem made them stand up..I'm just happy we saw two brit Pakistanis win and Pakistan play like we know they can..good WC..
 
pak were twenty (at least) short, shaheen or no shaheen, england would have gotten there.
 
Pakistan might've had a chance, and I think the game probably would've gone to the last over, but imo England still wins 9 times out of 10. They had an absurd amount of batting depth in their lower order (their number 11 Rashid has a first class century!).
 
Pretty poor excuse to hide incompetency considering Saheen''s upfront 2 overs are most lethal and he's best bowler in those 2 but in Death bowling he isn't any better than a average bowler, Didn't wade smashed him, Didn't kohli smashed him ,he was smashed a many time in death overs ,Just a pretty ordinary in death overs.

England can excuse as well what if Topley, Mark wood have played ? Pakistan wouldn't crossed 100.

Just face saving excuse that doesn't have any weightage but just a coping mechanism.
 
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About the topic 41 in 5 overs is easy for batting line up with depth. Should be run of the mill chase for a side like England with or without shaheen.
 
Death overs and Shaheen? Not sure about it. He mostly gets thrashed.

8 runs per over with so many wickets. Eng would have taken it even with bowlers who actually bowl well in death overs.
 
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I don’t think it would have made a difference.Pakistan did not score enough runs.They needed a score of 170 to have a chance.
 
The deficit was 12 runs, easily achieavable with 1 or 2 big overs. Injury or not. Pakistan were 20 runs short of the result.
This is all due to captain who will not budge from the opening spot. He knows team needs a total to build and yet he still won't take calculated risk to send someone like Shan or even Nawaz to open to make an impact in the powerplay.
He always hides behind excuses but never admits his own failings.
He has no attacking mentality either as a captain, there was no slip, no 3rd man, england easily found boundaries and they stopped ours easily too.

Difference between a target of 138 and 150 that is all down to the slow starts and he has not learnt a single lesson from his mistakes its been 3 tournaments now and we have lost due to the batting at the top.
Haris is young, its his first final he was due to fail and it came today...
 
England were still big favourites but it denied everyone except England fans of a fantastic spectacle.

Shaheen is an x-factor player and could have got a breakthrough and made it very interesting.

I thought Nawaz not being able to bowl due to the fact that there was always a left hander at the crease was a bit of a factor.

He might have been able to sneak in a tight over or two but other than the opening stand there was never an opportunity for him to bowl. It would take a brave/foolish captain to bowl him at Buttler/Hales in the power play.
 
Unfortunately we can't win finals. Mentally we aren't capable with the current leadership. Even 180 we all know we somehow would have lost it. England were nervous Dhoni or Imran would have ate them up but we have a nervous schoolboy as captain. Babar as captain doesn't have the authority or luck to win us a trophy.
 
nads_rocks said:
The deficit was 12 runs, easily achieavable with 1 or 2 big overs. Injury or not. Pakistan were 20 runs short of the result.
This is all due to captain who will not budge from the opening spot. He knows team needs a total to build and yet he still won't take calculated risk to send someone like Shan or even Nawaz to open to make an impact in the powerplay.
He always hides behind excuses but never admits his own failings.
He has no attacking mentality either as a captain, there was no slip, no 3rd man, england easily found boundaries and they stopped ours easily too.

Difference between a target of 138 and 150 that is all down to the slow starts and he has not learnt a single lesson from his mistakes its been 3 tournaments now and we have lost due to the batting at the top.
Haris is young, its his first final he was due to fail and it came today...
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No no Babar is perfect give him another 10 years......
 
Yes, I agree. Anything could have happened,even a Pakistani win.
 
England would still have won it even if Shaheen had bowled his remaining overs. It s not as if Shaheen has never given away boundaries. England's long batting line would have got the runs. It was the right thing to take Shaheen off instead of making him bowl possibly causing a much greater injury. I assume Shaheen will be out of the England test series.
 
Babar should have gone for the kill with 2 slips after buttlers wicket, he should have aimed to get as many wickets as possible and should have bowled out Shaheen, Rauf and Naseem when there was enough movement, swing, pace, bounce on the wicket.

Naseem finally found the right length on the wicket after Rauf told him to avoid pitching the ball up and up aim for the just short of a length

Am sick and tired of Babars defensive, scared of losing, being on the backfoot captaincy, this is the third big game his captaincy has cost us, he has had 2-3 years in the job, that's more than enough evidence to show how one has captained in pressure situations and what one's ceiling is as captain
 
Shaheen needs to also avoid being one dimensional, he needs to develop the outswinger with the new ball, all he does is bring the ball back into the right hander and with the passage of time quality teams will do their homework on him and plan a counter strategy against him, he also doesn't use his height to his advantage which is criminal given the pace, bounce of the MCG and Perth.
 
Savak said:
Shaheen needs to also avoid being one dimensional, he needs to develop the outswinger with the new ball, all he does is bring the ball back into the right hander and with the passage of time quality teams will do their homework on him and plan a counter strategy against him, he also doesn't use his height to his advantage which is criminal given the pace, bounce of the MCG and Perth.
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Lol Shaheen bowling like this for last 2-3 years teams/batsmen still can't pick him as of yet. And do remember in this world cup Shaheen wasn't fully fit if he was fully fit he would have been bowling over 140 and swinging it in.
 
Talking about the turning point of the World Cup final, batting legend Gavaskar opined that Pakistan were already 15-20 runs short against England. “I don’t think so, as they didn’t have enough runs on the board. They were around 15-20 runs short. Had they got to 150-155, they would have had a better chance and their bowlers would have had a bit of a cushion,” Sunil Gavaskar told India Today.

“But I don’t think the 10 deliveries that Shaheen didn’t bowl would have made that much of a difference. Maybe Pakistan would have got another wicket, but England would still have won,” Gavaskar added. Speaking to reporters after the match, Pakistan captain Babar admitted that his side was 20 runs short with the bat in the final. The Pakistan skipper also asserted that Shaheen's injury shifted the match in England's favour.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...-have-got-another-wicket-101668350494867.html
 
It could have been a lot more interesting finish. But England still had an advantage.

Pakistan lost the plot in pitch and conditions assessment. Pakistan should have concentrated on getting 155 by placing the ball in the gaps rather than aiming for clearing big MCG boundaries with blind slogging.

I believe we need a better strategist in the coaching staff. We lost the match against India because of being one pacer short. And then again our planning department got it wrong in this match.
 
It had a huge impact imo.

Shaheen's injury was a big psychological boost for England. They immediately knew they now had the cushion of 2 finger spin overs and were not going to lose.
 
Pakistan lost the match when they were asked to bat first as they don't have any strategy whenever they bat first like how much to score in PP, how much to get in first 10 overs or what should be the suitable target. As usual the Openers played 18 dot balls in power play, after 6 overs Pak was 39/1 and then after 10th over the score was 68/2. Only in 11th over Shan showed intent and got 16 runs which took the score to 84/2 and that was the only time it was looking like Pak is controlling the game.

In 12th over Babar threw his wicket and in 13th Iftikhar threw his wicket after wasting 6 balls and then rest of the batters literally surrendered during 17-20 over. Although Pak bowlers got some crucial wickets, but overall it was one sided affair as Eng never allowed Pak to boss the game. Babar's SR in this WC was 93.23 and Rizwan SR was 110.06 and this has really hurt approach of rest of the batters. Playing 18 dot balls in PP, Iftikhar playing maiden over in WC final, extremely poor strike rotation caused panic.

Babar, Rizwan, Shan & Iftikhar will perform well in ODIs but not in T20I
 
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Buffet said:
Death overs and Shaheen? Not sure about it. He mostly gets thrashed.

8 runs per over with so many wickets. Eng would have taken it even with bowlers who actually bowl well in death overs.
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I know what you are saying but this wasn't a flat track. Ball was doing something and Shaheen in place of Iftikhar would have made things interesting. In fact it was Iftikhar's over where the game became one sided in favour of England.
 
Let's look at numbers.

Before Shaheen's injury, they were at 67% if I recall correctly. Without him, after Iftikhar's over, they were be at 90+%.

No harm in admitting it made a massive difference. Just like no harm in admitting England were favorites.

Just that Pakistan weren't out of it.

Also to say England has firepower to come ignores the fact that this pitch and the ground size impacted powerhitters quite a bit on either side. There were only 3 sixes in a score of 280. Even 4's were few. Otherwise Buttler would have been closer to his India game self.
 
Buffet said:
Death overs and Shaheen? Not sure about it. He mostly gets thrashed.

8 runs per over with so many wickets. Eng would have taken it even with bowlers who actually bowl well in death overs.
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It wasn't a usual T20 pitch.

Going by past stats is irrelevant here as I am sure you wouldn't find Eng scoring only 45/1 in 9 overs during middle phase of a T20....in the past.

Strange things can happen in a final.

Eng would still be the favs to win but the game would have gone down to the wire.
 
In a video shared by Dawn, Imran Khan said that Shaheen could have made the difference in those two overs, but his injury changed the scenario for Pakistan.

"I used to tell my team to fight till the last bowl. Try your best. But when the result comes and you have given your best, then it is God’s will. But what is not in your hands […] the way Shaheen Afridi was injured, no one can do anything about that. And unfortunately it happened at a time when the match was at a very important stage and Shaheen could have made a difference. I am not saying that we could have won but it was at a time when the game could have been changed," he said.

The team had suffered a blow when pace spearhead Shaheen Afridi was injured after landing awkwardly on his knee while taking a catch to dismiss England batter Harry Brook, an impact that forced him to abort his spell in the 15th over.
 
No, SSA injury didnt make a difference. For me 2 things decided the game- Babars dismissal and Naseems poor 1st over.
 
We love a good excuse.

All England needed were a six and two fours, and they were going to find it regardless of who was bowling.

Pakistan lost the match when they limped to a woefully below par total.
 
Two overs of waseem jr were also left that many are ignoring.

Shaheen is not good at death. Maybe that over could had gone well, but waseem jr would hd been attacked either way along shaheen in the last over.

You have to give credit to stokesz he was very sober to the fact that just because naseem was bowling dots, he didnt try to swing the bat wildly.
 
Major said:
Two overs of waseem jr were also left that many are ignoring.

Shaheen is not good at death. Maybe that over could had gone well, but waseem jr would hd been attacked either way along shaheen in the last over.

You have to give credit to stokesz he was very sober to the fact that just because naseem was bowling dots, he didnt try to swing the bat wildly.
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Wasim Jr with his slinging action only bowls Yorkers, he is not very effective with the bouncers. The captain should have packed the off side field against him and encouraged the batters to hit across the line to his full pitched yorkers to maximize the changes of bringing an LBW into play.
 
Yes of course it had a huge impact on the match, The pakistani fast bowlers like haris and shah were bowling really well, haris 4 overs were great and didnt give away too many runs and naseem shahs last 2 overs were SUPERB, high quality bowling without any reward, and a lot of pundits agree with me on this.

The match was in the BALANCE, had he picked up the wicket of stokes it would have set up panic in the ranks, it is a world cup final after all, even stokes match winning innings was a scratchy 52 off 49 deliveries.
 
Shoaib Akhtar

"When your main bowler becomes unfit, then it creates problem for you"

"Shaheen (Afridi) was never fully fit, but we cannot put the entire blame on him as he bowled well in the past 2-3 matches."

"But this is World Cup final. Even if the leg breaks. Whatever happens, happens. Just keep running and do something. But this was not in our fortune."

"When you numb your feet, the pain is not felt. Yes, you are risking the career of the young man. It is a World Cup final, whether you can risk or not that you have to think as a captain. It is a tough decision"

https://sports.ndtv.com/t20-world-c...0-wc-final-3520903#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories
 
Match would have been over in before 19th over had Shaheen bowled. Its good that he got injured and Pak atleast dragged the match to 19th over..It was Shaheen only who got Wade back in form who tonked him like anything and finished the match in his over only ,which was 19th over of the AUS innings last year T20 WC..
 
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