‘I was a made a scapegoat for England’s Test defeats,’ says Moeen Ali

[MenInG]

Moeen Ali believes he had cruelly become a scapegoat for England's shortcomings before he stepped away from Test cricket last summer.

The 60-Test veteran is looking for a return to the five-day game in the near future, saying he hoped it would come "very soon".

Yet Moeen has revealed his frustration at being singled out for criticism at times when his overall contribution has not justified the scrutiny.

His most recent Test was the Ashes opener against Australia at Edgbaston in August, when the tourist scored a 251-run victory.

Spinning all-rounder Moeen took three wickets in the match but scored just a duck and four with the bat.

He asked for a hiatus from Tests later in the English summer, which meant he missed the tour of New Zealand and the current trip to South Africa.

Describing himself as feeling "burnt out" at the time, Moeen said: "There have been days I've had not so good games but I feel like sometimes it's easy to point the finger at me.

"It did get to me and that was probably one of the reasons why I felt like I needed to step back from Test cricket in particular."

Speaking to the BBC Asian Network, Moeen said: "It's not something people would normally do, especially when you've just won the World Cup, you're playing in the Ashes - I was doing quite well before that.

"Obviously I had a very bad game against Australia in the Ashes and then rightfully I got dropped, but it was almost like it was all my fault and like I've not been good enough for a while and not done anything for two years - but I have.

"I bat number eight and if I don't score runs it's all my fault? It's difficult sometimes."

Moeen, who has made five Test hundreds and boasts 181 five-day wickets, may come back into contention for England's home series against West Indies and Pakistan, describing the England and Wales Cricket board as "amazing in terms of support".


https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cric...asy-to-point-finger-at-me/article30578508.ece
"They've just said, 'Whenever you're ready, mate. We'll be here for you'," Moeen said. "Hopefully very soon I'll be back."

 

[Mamoon]

Out comes the victim card.

He has been shockingly poor for a quite some time now and regularly bottled under pressure. He was the clear weak-link and was probably the last player of the World Cup winning side to earn the medal.

It is clear that he doesn’t have the mentality or the attitude to be a world class player.

 

[Abdullah719]

‘I was a made a scapegoat for England’s Test defeats,’ says Moeen Ali

Spoiler

Moeen Ali has claimed he was made a scapegoat for England’s Test failings when he was in the side and he is not ready to make his return after taking a break from cricket’s long form.

The all-rounder stepped away from the red-ball game following England’s decision not to renew his central contract last September and has since taken on white-ball commitments around the world. That includes signing a contract to play in the Pakistan Super League, a tournament that overlaps with England’s two-Test series in Sri Lanka in March.

Moeen said he will decide whether to make himself available for the series during the white-ball leg of the tour of South Africa and, expanding on his column for the Guardian last month, the 32-year-old on Thursday said his decision to take a break from red-ball cricket was driven by burnout and having the finger of blame regularly pointed in his direction.

“A lot of the time if we lose I feel I am one of the first guys to get the blame for it,” he told the BBC’s Cricket Social. “I found, yes, there have been days when I have not had good games but I feel sometimes it is easy to point the finger at me.

“It did get to me and that was one of the reasons why I needed to step back from Test cricket. I felt like I was drained from it all. I do think that but I have got to become a stronger person as well.

“A lot of people could see I probably needed a break. I felt fatigued and burnt out. I needed this break to recharge my batteries and work on a few things and just find that hunger and love for the game again. It’s been great.”

Asked whether he would return for the tour of Sri Lanka, where Moeen took 18 wickets at 24.50 in his last Test series in late 2018, he said: “I’m going to go to South Africa now for the one-day stuff and I’ll probably decide there, speak to a few people … I’ll definitely come back when I feel ready.

“England – the ECB – have been amazing in terms of support and they fully understand where I’m coming from. There’s no timeframe. When I’m ready I’ll come back for sure. I know I’ve got to fight for my spot and earn my spot again, which I’m looking forward to.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jan/16/england-moeen-ali-scapegoat-test-cricket

 

[Manunited18]

I agree completely, who apart from stokes has consistently performed in the last year or 2, the test team been very inconsistent

 

[Hasan123]

You weren't made a scapegoat. You were given plenty of chances and you were dropped for not performing. Take some responsibility for once.

 

[Shoaib88]

Pathetic players usually come up with pathetic excuses, he must be friend of akmals

 

[Nikhil_cric]

No. You were dropped because you were not in the best XI at the world cup and ruined the balance of the side. England were better off playing all 5 bowlers and your batting was pretty useless too. Also you are a choker unlike stokes.

 

[Gilly]

I imagine every single player thinks they are unfairly treated. Better off keeping it to yourself.

 

[Manunited18]

You weren't made a scapegoat. You were given plenty of chances and you were dropped for not performing. Take some responsibility for once.

Moin has taken responsibility, remember that's his career, and since his exclusion from red ball contract he has to think of his future, England managment wanted him back for the South Africa and Sri Lanka series but moin is rightfully questioning his position and has to seek other ways to earn as it is a short career

 

[Manunited18]

I imagine every single player thinks they are unfairly treated. Better off keeping it to yourself.

Hes had to come out and say something, England had him in their plans for South Africa and Sri Lanka yet he was axed from the red ball contract so he's stating what he thinks

 

[FreePalestine]

If you guys who are denigrating him for this are from the UK, and have a south asian background, I really don’t understand where you are coming from. Surely you would have seen that Moeen Ali was never allowed to play cricket in his own way. He was always the one who was asked to move or change his role to accommodate others. His batting deteriorated over time in intl cricket, but actually he has won a lot of games with bat and ball for England despite this inconsistency in his team role.

Also his main point was that every time England lost, he was villified by the press. If you do some research into this, you will find it to be completely true. He always was the first to be hammered by the press, even if he had just been the man of the series in the series just before. It was because he is of south asian descent, that all kinds of conscious and unconscious bias was thrown his way from the media, from sky experts and from the broader cricketing community here in England.

Despite all this constant pressure, Ali never really complained, always tried to stay optimistic and perform wherever possible, but the expectations were always unrealistically high, and the daggers were always out, waiting for a failure.

Thankfully experts are now finally starting to discuss his treatment - people like Vikram Solanki and Alec Stewart have acknowledged the truth of all these complaints, so it is not just Moeen Ali who feels it.

There is a huge problem with how South Asian cricketers in the UK are treated in the cricketing system. They make up like 25% of the local cricket economy, close to 50% of the amateur game, but are very rarely picked up for professional cricket by coaches. Moeen Ali’s treatment is a high profile example of a broader societal injustice for South Asian members of the English cricketing community. Even the ECB has recognized this now.

Moeen Ali deserves your support and backing.

 

[minamino]

There are a lot of South Asian cricketers in England. In fact, The south Asian people is a big reason why cricket is still alive in the UK. Moeen Ali should stop playing the victim card here.

 

[Hasan123]

Moin has taken responsibility, remember that's his career, and since his exclusion from red ball contract he has to think of his future, England managment wanted him back for the South Africa and Sri Lanka series but moin is rightfully questioning his position and has to seek other ways to earn as it is a short career

He an average player who gets way too much hype.

 

[jaisan]

A top order batsman who bowls decent off spin in domestics was selected as frontline spinner who batted at 8

 

[jaisan]

Was always asking too much from the player. Still he performed the role for 60 tests is admirable

 

[FreePalestine]

There are a lot of South Asian cricketers in England. In fact, The south Asian people is a big reason why cricket is still alive in the UK. Moeen Ali should stop playing the victim card here.

I don’t think you understood my point. There are a lot of South Asians in the amateur game, but very, very few make it to the professional game. It goes from like 50% of the amateur game to single fingers in the professional (county) game. So the most rational reason for this shortfall, since the numbers are so high, is structural discrimination. The ECB themselves made a documentary about it that was on Sky a year or so ago and they are trying to change these structural imbalances by getting more coaches from South Asian descent and greater community engagement in schools. So this is a recognized problem. It is not about playing the ‘victim’ card.... that is quite a basic and incorrect understanding of the situation.

 

[Mamoon]

A top order batsman who bowls decent off spin in domestics was selected as frontline spinner who batted at 8

He has played 7 matches in the top-order in Test cricket and has averaged 14 with zero half-centuries.

In ODIs, he averages 25 after 21 matches in the top-order if you exclude the hundred against Scotland.

In 6 T20Is, he averages 24 while batting in the top-order.

In summary: Moeen has been given 38 matches in the top-order across formats and he has proved that he is not good enough.

He clearly does not or did not deserve to bat up the order ahead of the likes of Cook, Root, Bairstow, Roy, Hales etc.

In fact, considering his inconsistent batting, bog average bowling and terrible performances away from home especially with the ball, he should consider himself lucky to have played 60 Tests and 100+ ODIs so far.

 

[volcyz]

He is so mentally scared of Aus it’s not funny

Getting dropped was for his own good.

Should never play against Aus again, he’s like a walking wicket and can’t contain runs.

 

[Mamoon]

It is ironic to see people accuse the system of discriminating against him, when the only reason he has been hyped and has a small section of fans is because of his ethnicity and profile.

 

[MenInG]

It is ironic to see people accuse the system of discriminating against him, when the only reason he has been hyped and has a small section of fans is because of his ethnicity and profile.

Stop bringing his ethnicity in this. No where has he ever mentioned his ethnicity but seems you need to bring that in to further your own personal agenda against anyone of Pakistani origin.

Fact is that many Asians in England do find him a role model and that is something to be proud of and not to look down upon.

 

[silentkiller187]

The media will always treat ethnic minority brits different from their Caucasian counter parts, from Rugby to football to cricket, this is not surprising. Jofra Archer is next, better recored than jimmy anderson and broad since he started playing, 3 five wicket hauls in his first 5 or 6 tests but yet we are constantly told his body langauge is not right or he is not trying hard enough not putting the effort in etc.

 

[Robert]

Given that he played sixty tests and 101 ODIs he has hardly been first to get the blame.

He was dropped due to a total collapse in form.

 

[Robert]

It is ironic to see people accuse the system of discriminating against him, when the only reason he has been hyped and has a small section of fans is because of his ethnicity and profile.

He isn't "hyped", he is valued. He averages more that 30 with the bat with five attractive hundreds and has been England's best spinner for some years.

 

[MenInG]

The media will always treat ethnic minority brits different from their Caucasian counter parts, from Rugby to football to cricket, this is not surprising. Jofra Archer is next, better recored than jimmy anderson and broad since he started playing, 3 five wicket hauls in his first 5 or 6 tests but yet we are constantly told his body langauge is not right or he is not trying hard enough not putting the effort in etc.

He needs to perform - that's all there is to it.

 

[Robert]

The media will always treat ethnic minority brits different from their Caucasian counter parts, from Rugby to football to cricket, this is not surprising. Jofra Archer is next, better recored than jimmy anderson and broad since he started playing, 3 five wicket hauls in his first 5 or 6 tests but yet we are constantly told his body langauge is not right or he is not trying hard enough not putting the effort in etc.

That's ecause we all know how effective he can be and it is frustrating when he bowls at 82 mph.

We thought about Harmison exactly the same way. It's frustrating to see these guys waste their opportunities.

 

[James]

Disagree with Moeen, he has played 60 Tests and 100 ODIs. The fans always had a lot of time for him, he was popular in the dressing room, and the selectors gave him loads of chances, continuing to openly back him even when his form deserted him.

When Moeen finally took his break, he was batting so abysmally and bowling so harmlessly that he was surely on the verge of being dropped anyway.

There is arguably circumstantial evidence of structural racism affecting the careers of some British Asians who have played cricket for England, I’m thinking Owais Shah as an example - but this has not happened in Moeen’s case IMHO.

 

[silentkiller187]

That's ecause we all know how effective he can be and it is frustrating when he bowls at 82 mph.

We thought about Harmison exactly the same way. It's frustrating to see these guys waste their opportunities.

i dont think its an excuse, especially when you look at the way the media talk up Sam curran as the next big thing but archer does not try hard enough etc etc, archer has a much better record then curran already. can see the media vilification go the same way they did with raheem sterling

 

[Robert]

i dont think its an excuse, especially when you look at the way the media talk up Sam curran as the next big thing but archer does not try hard enough etc etc, archer has a much better record then curran already. can see the media vilification go the same way they did with raheem sterling

You mean vilification when Sterling wasn’t delivering? Nobody says anything now he is scoring every game.

Archer looks like Malcolm Marshall one match then gives a military medium display in the next. While it is true that the skipper doesn’t handle him well, Archer should be more consistent in his attitude.

 

[silentkiller187]

You mean vilification when Sterling wasn’t delivering? Nobody says anything now he is scoring every game.

Archer looks like Malcolm Marshall one match then gives a military medium display in the next. While it is true that the skipper doesn’t handle him well, Archer should be more consistent in his attitude.

No i mean the vilification pre world cup when he was being slandered for shopping in primark and then again when he bought his mum a house, had nothing to do with what was going on on the pitch, he was scoring while these stories were printed and they only stopped after all the public outcry.

But this is a cricket thread so i will stay on topic, maybe the fact that his skipper is giving him mixed signals and has definitely not handled him well at all is the reason for the dip in his attitude, maybe he has realised he needs to do more than his peers to fit in or get a good story in the paper, or maybe he has realised when he has an off day as all humans have the media will get the daggers out for him but when broad or anderson do there is no issue with it.

 

[Cric_lover4487]

I think arrival of allrounders Stokes and Woakes killed his career. I don’t feel his exclusion has to do with him being not white. He is English version of Raina. Can hit slogs and bowl bit of spin.

 

[silentkiller187]

Moeen is not talking about him being excluded because of his race, the point he is making is when he had an off day the media would amplify this if you listen or read the whole interview, in comparison to some of his collegues who could go missing in games and nothing would be said of it.

 

[hitthestump]

One comment from Moeen has been taken way out of proportion here.

Anyone who knows him knows he is a very cool and relaxed individual. Very pious. If he's saying he's been hard done by it's because he's genuinely feeling it. Comparisons to the Akmal's are out of line here.

 

[FreePalestine]

He needs to perform - that's all there is to it.

Don’t think you’ve got this one right MenInG though usually I agree with you. Especially since [MENTION=137868]silentkiller187[/MENTION]’s example, which you did not mention directly. He said ‘Jofra Archer is next, better record than Jimmy Anderson and broad since he started playing, 3 five wicket hauls [...] yet we are constnatly told his body language is not right or he is not trying hard enough not putting the effort in etc.’ And you responded by saying, ‘He needs to perform’. But the point being made about Archer was that he is performing! Better than England’s ATG’s did at the beginnings of their careers and even now. So your response doesn’t make sense, I don’t think, since the point is that despite his performing at a very, very high level, he is still told ‘he is not trying hard enough’ ‘his body language is not right’ etc. How do you explain that?

 

[FreePalestine]

One comment from Moeen has been taken way out of proportion here.

Anyone who knows him knows he is a very cool and relaxed individual. Very pious. If he's saying he's been hard done by it's because he's genuinely feeling it. Comparisons to the Akmal's are out of line here.

Thank you. People are misunderstanding the situation by saying otherwise. Moeen is not a drama queen or an attention hogg, so when he says something like this (which is rare), don’t try to stick the knife in further as British media already tend to do.

 

[silentkiller187]

Thank you. People are misunderstanding the situation by saying otherwise. Moeen is not a drama queen or an attention hogg, so when he says something like this (which is rare), don’t try to stick the knife in further as British media already tend to do.

Another example of people jumping on the bandwagon and bashing before actually listening to or reading what was said.

 

[HitWicket]

That's ecause we all know how effective he can be and it is frustrating when he bowls at 82 mph.

We thought about Harmison exactly the same way. It's frustrating to see these guys waste their opportunities.

Broad and Anderson also both average better than him since he debuted as well.

 

[silentkiller187]

Broad and Anderson also both average better than him since he debuted as well.

I would hope so aswell since they are probably up there with Englands ATG against someone who has only played 4/5 tests

 

[PakPremi]

Stop bringing his ethnicity in this. No where has he ever mentioned his ethnicity but seems you need to bring that in to further your own personal agenda against anyone of Pakistani origin.

Fact is that many Asians in England do find him a role model and that is something to be proud of and not to look down upon.

Top post

 

[silentkiller187]

Broad and Anderson also both average better than him since he debuted as well.

Anderson has only played 2 test matches in this period, Broad has played two games less and has a 0.03 better average then archer, so not sure what point your trying to make here?

 

[HitWicket]

Anderson has only played 2 test matches in this period, Broad has played two games less and has a 0.03 better average then archer, so not sure what point your trying to make here?

That "better recored than jimmy anderson and broad since he started playing" isn't a very genuine statement.

 

[silentkiller187]

That "better recored than jimmy anderson and broad since he started playing" isn't a very genuine statement.

hes got more wickets then both of them so depends what record you want to look at. Him and broad have played similar number of games in this period, broad has a average of 27.37 archer has 27.40 broad has 29 wickets archer has 30 , more wickets than jimmy aswell. Then point im trying to make is he is being criticised for lacking effort not trying whatever but why is the same not being said about broad or any of the other bowlers he is outperforming.

 

[barah_admi]

Out comes the victim card.

He has been shockingly poor for a quite some time now and regularly bottled under pressure. He was the clear weak-link and was probably the last player of the World Cup winning side to earn the medal.

It is clear that he doesn’t have the mentality or the attitude to be a world class player.

Bottled it? He took a hat trick to give England a test win over South Africa and had plenty of other top performances, so much so that he took over 30 test wickers in a calendar year and also has scored plenty of useful runs. At one time, England's lower order included Stokes and Ali who were their two most important players across formats.

In fact, he was a far more important test cricketer and as an off spinner averaged under 30, even last year 2019 when he was out of form he was still averaging less than 30.

Plus, as per always, you don't seem to read what is written...there have been several headlines quoting the "scapegoat" term and yet, if you read what he actually said, he speaks about being one of the first to be blamed. I cant see his actual word being scapegoat. He is simply stating he felt singled out, which he often was, although others played just as bad if not worse in some of those instances. He also goes on to state the ECB has been largely supprtive of him...have you read that?

I mean, the guy is Pakistani and Muslim so it is difficult for you to be honest about him. I know it is hard for you.

 

[Mamoon]

Bottled it? He took a hat trick to give England a test win over South Africa and had plenty of other top performances, so much so that he took over 30 test wickers in a calendar year and also has scored plenty of useful runs. At one time, England's lower order included Stokes and Ali who were their two most important players across formats.

In fact, he was a far more important test cricketer and as an off spinner averaged under 30, even last year 2019 when he was out of form he was still averaging less than 30.

Plus, as per always, you don't seem to read what is written...there have been several headlines quoting the "scapegoat" term and yet, if you read what he actually said, he speaks about being one of the first to be blamed. I cant see his actual word being scapegoat. He is simply stating he felt singled out, which he often was, although others played just as bad if not worse in some of those instances. He also goes on to state the ECB has been largely supprtive of him...have you read that?

I mean, the guy is Pakistani and Muslim so it is difficult for you to be honest about him. I know it is hard for you.

Apart from his two purple patches at home in 2016 and 2017, he has always been an average player and was never in the same league as Stokes.

He is lucky to have played 60 Tests because that is about half too many for a player of his mediocre talents.

In fact, the number of Test caps reflect how poor England have been in terms of producing a quality Test spinner post Swann.

The bottom-line is that Moeen is average in all three departments and has not shown the ability to perform under pressure.

He is rightfully dropped from the team and at the age of 32-33, he probably does not have much left in the tank.

I do not want to comment on his background any further because the mods said so, even though it is quite obvious what Moeen is trying to imply. Anyway, authority needs to be respected.

 

[barah_admi]

Apart from his two purple patches at home in 2016 and 2017, he has always been an average player and was never in the same league as Stokes.

He is lucky to have played 60 Tests because that is about half too many for a player of his mediocre talents.

In fact, the number of Test caps reflect how poor England have been in terms of producing a quality Test spinner post Swann.

The bottom-line is that Moeen is average in all three departments and has not shown the ability to perform under pressure.

He is rightfully dropped from the team and at the age of 32-33, he probably does not have much left in the tank.

I do not want to comment on his background any further because the mods said so, even though it is quite obvious what Moeen is trying to imply. Anyway, authority needs to be respected.

So he has gone from "bottling" it to now being good in two years 2016/17. You are joke.

 

[Mean&Green]

Lol you were ***** no wonder an admirer of ***** players picked you again in his IPL team. It’s hilarious how kohli has an eye for picking the worst players possible he will regret picking moeen Ali this season again mediocre player who will fire once in 10 games typical Pakistani genes

 

[Mamoon]

If Moeen happens to play 100 Tests for England, it would make him one of the worst cricketers in history to reach that mark.

He clearly doesn’t have a leg to stand on as far moaning about mistreatment is concerned. He is actually a very lucky player. Far better cricketers around the world have played less Test cricket than him.

 

[Mamoon]

So he has gone from "bottling" it to now being good in two years 2016/17. You are joke.

Good only at home, that too for two summers only. We have seen his bottling away from him and during two World Cup (2015, 2019).

You can call me a joke, but let me tell you a joke as well: there are people who actually think Moeen is a quality player.

Now that is what I call a joke.

 

[Minnowbasher]

Moeen bhai Pakistan ke liye khel lo. Humme off spinning all rounder chaye hai.

 

[Mamoon]

Lol you were ***** no wonder an admirer of ***** players picked you again in his IPL team. It’s hilarious how kohli has an eye for picking the worst players possible he will regret picking moeen Ali this season again mediocre player who will fire once in 10 games typical Pakistani genes

In spite of having Kohli, de Villiers, Rahul as well as Gayle and Starc in the past, RCB are yet to win the IPL.

Perhaps it has to do with their tendency to pick too many garbage players like Moeen. They need to find better support players.

 

[Robert]

I think arrival of allrounders Stokes and Woakes killed his career. I don’t feel his exclusion has to do with him being not white. He is English version of Raina. Can hit slogs and bowl bit of spin.

Moeen outbatted and outbowled Stokes on the last tour of India. I am not sure that Woakes will play for England again, now Curran has emerged.

He just needs his confidence back. My side for SL in March is:

Burns (capt.)
Sibley
Denly
Root
Pope
Stokes
Moeen
Foakes
Curran
Archer / Wood
Leach

I'd give Broad that tour off.

Could drop Denly, move everyone else up and play Archer and Wood together.

 

[FreePalestine]

Moeen outbatted and outbowled Stokes on the last tour of India. I am not sure that Woakes will play for England again, now Curran has emerged.

He just needs his confidence back. My side for SL in March is:

Burns (capt.)
Sibley
Denly
Root
Pope
Stokes
Moeen
Foakes
Curran
Archer / Wood
Leach

I'd give Broad that tour off.

Could drop Denly, move everyone else up and play Archer and Wood together.

Interesting. Burns as captain by SL series? Dream on, my friend! I agree with your team. Is Rashid not playing test cricket anymore? I would take Broad along. Probably play him ahead of Curran...

 

[octavian]

What a typical desi thing to say.

Even if you were, this is only going to make things worse. Moeen should just stay quiet and score some runs - which he rarely did for England in the latter part of his career - to get back in the side.

 

[Itachi]

One comment from Moeen has been taken way out of proportion here.

Anyone who knows him knows he is a very cool and relaxed individual. Very pious. If he's saying he's been hard done by it's because he's genuinely feeling it. Comparisons to the Akmal's are out of line here.

Pious? What religion has to do with this? Just because a person is religious, he may doesn't get a free pass in a national team?

Or are you implying religion played a role in his removal?

 

[FreePalestine]

It’s like talking to a brick wall

 

[barah_admi]

Good only at home, that too for two summers only. We have seen his bottling away from him and during two World Cup (2015, 2019).

You can call me a joke, but let me tell you a joke as well: there are people who actually think Moeen is a quality player.

Now that is what I call a joke.

So he went from bottling it to have two good seasons to now only bottling it away from home....pick one but I know it is difficult when a human being is disingenuous.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

England also don't need two all-rounders in test cricket. Stokes has proven to be the superior all-rounder and he will play over moeen.

 

[Robert]

England also don't need two all-rounders in test cricket. Stokes has proven to be the superior all-rounder and he will play over moeen.

In SENA. I would back Moeen to score more runs in India because he has a better technique against spin. You can't just keep slog-sweeping and reverse-sweeping good spinners for six on turning surfaces. Play both Moeen and Stokes both there.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

In SENA. I would back Moeen to score more runs in India because he has a better technique against spin. You can't just keep slog-sweeping and reverse-sweeping good spinners for six on turning surfaces. Play both Moeen and Stokes both there.

Moeens bowling was rubbish in India. And anyway, you just can't play 2 all-rounders in test cricket . The current combination is fine . England need 4 extremely good bowlers for India -2 quicks and 2 spinners. All-rounders won't make much difference.

 

[sindhiboy]

moeen is no doubt lucky to play that many tests but his bowling has massively improved

but in the last few years, he has bowled really well overseas and at home.
not only took wickets in sri lanka but also took many in the west indies a year ago where the wickets were not suited for spin.he can bowl in all conditions, if his batting comes off its a bonus, but he is mainly a spinner.

but with the emergence of jack leach and dom bess, i think moeen is now done. he was rightly dropped considering the amount of chances he got, but it seems he was dropped just as he hit some form.

the fact that joe denly provided massive breakthroughs for england last test shows eng dont need moeen at all and they have the spin department covered.

 

[FreePalestine]

I think big problem for Moeen is his performance in Aus tours have been pretty poor. May still be the best spinner in the country (apart from Simon Harmer), but Leach should probably be given a go on the next Aus tour.

If Moeen makes a comeback should be as a batting all rounder, with weight of domestic runs behind him, being given a set position in the lineup. Atm, he could still play as a second spinner in Asian, Caribbean conditions. He is pretty useful in England as well.. but may want to give Leach more opportunities when he recovers.

He was a very good player, and was definitely treated unfairly by the media and the team management to a large extent.

 

[Manunited18]

moeen is no doubt lucky to play that many tests but his bowling has massively improved

but in the last few years, he has bowled really well overseas and at home.
not only took wickets in sri lanka but also took many in the west indies a year ago where the wickets were not suited for spin.he can bowl in all conditions, if his batting comes off its a bonus, but he is mainly a spinner.

but with the emergence of jack leach and dom bess, i think moeen is now done. he was rightly dropped considering the amount of chances he got, but it seems he was dropped just as he hit some form.

the fact that joe denly provided massive breakthroughs for england last test shows eng dont need moeen at all and they have the spin department covered.

The reason he played so many tests was because after swann retired the cupboard was bare regarding spin options, and he didn't disgrace himself

 

[Mamoon]

So he went from bottling it to have two good seasons to now only bottling it away from home....pick one but I know it is difficult when a human being is disingenuous.

So he bottles more often than not, and that makes him a bottler. Let’s not talk about who is disingenuous and who isn’t.

Everyone knows why people like you will go to any lengths to defend this mediocrity.

 

[Manunited18]

I think big problem for Moeen is his performance in Aus tours have been pretty poor. May still be the best spinner in the country (apart from Simon Harmer), but Leach should probably be given a go on the next Aus tour.

If Moeen makes a comeback should be as a batting all rounder, with weight of domestic runs behind him, being given a set position in the lineup. Atm, he could still play as a second spinner in Asian, Caribbean conditions. He is pretty useful in England as well.. but may want to give Leach more opportunities when he recovers.

He was a very good player, and was definitely treated unfairly by the media and the team management to a large extent.

Who performed in Australia?, moins biggest issue been is he's had no clarity in his role in the team, as a batsman he was like a yo yo, up and down the order which in the end effected his confidence, but as for his bowling he was the leading wicket taker in 2019 in test cricket when he got the axe

 

[Robert]

Who performed in Australia?, moins biggest issue been is he's had no clarity in his role in the team, as a batsman he was like a yo yo, up and down the order which in the end effected his confidence, but as for his bowling he was the leading wicket taker in 2019 in test cricket when he got the axe

Not quite, he was leading wicket taker in the twelve months up to the point of being dropped, not the calendar year. Rabada was well ahead of him in 2019.

I agree about yo-yoing up and down the order. I would put him at seven or eight in England and six in India, as he plays spin well.

He might not get back in though. The Zummerzet zpin twinz (see what I did there?) Leach and Bess may bowl in SL in tandem.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

England have better players. That's it. If Ali wanna come back to definite XI he has to perform and selectors won't ignore him.

PS: In this thread it is very obvious that some people are obsessed with Moeen Ali.

 

[Manunited18]

Not quite, he was leading wicket taker in the twelve months up to the point of being dropped, not the calendar year. Rabada was well ahead of him in 2019.

I agree about yo-yoing up and down the order. I would put him at seven or eight in England and six in India, as he plays spin well.

He might not get back in though. The Zummerzet zpin twinz (see what I did there?) Leach and Bess may bowl in SL in tandem.

Im impressed by Bess, looks to have a tough character as for leach hope he recovers well from this serious illness

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Moin Ali is not a bad player - but certainly not top class. Certainly cannot make it into the team on his batting or his bowling alone.

He had a chance to develop his bowling and take it to the next level, like Lyon and such. But he hasn't shown the gumption to invest time in things like developing his craft.

He can still be a good option for England - but only as you'd play a 70th minute substitute in football - when the main players are resting, not working out or injured.

 

[Manunited18]

England have better players. That's it. If Ali wanna come back to definite XI he has to perform and selectors won't ignore him.

PS: In this thread it is very obvious that some people are obsessed with Moeen Ali.

Moin has made himself unavailable as of late, root wanted him for South Africa can't srilanka, but his central contract been terminated so he had to open his options up for the loss of earnings, he is playing t20 formats around the world, this thread is about opinions, yours, mine, or anyone else's will make no difference to the issue, so the word obsession is wrong

 

[Manunited18]

Moin Ali is not a bad player - but certainly not top class. Certainly cannot make it into the team on his batting or his bowling alone.

He had a chance to develop his bowling and take it to the next level, like Lyon and such. But he hasn't shown the gumption to invest time in things like developing his craft.

He can still be a good option for England - but only as you'd play a 70th minute substitute in football - when the main players are resting, not working out or injured.

The cupboard looks bare regarding the top quality spin department

 

[Mean&Green]

In spite of having Kohli, de Villiers, Rahul as well as Gayle and Starc in the past, RCB are yet to win the IPL.

Perhaps it has to do with their tendency to pick too many garbage players like Moeen. They need to find better support players.

That and the luck and set up involved around these franchises play a huge part. Mumbai Indians have the best set up they take proper care of their players have a sound management it makes sense since they are the richest. But teams like rcb are already under the scanner the owner has fled the country malia or something he lives in uk now etc. I don’t know who still owns the team I also think kohli has part shares in it. Anyways it’s mostly on the set up and management in these leagues you can have the best of players but still not win. Quetta gladiators are a proof of that in psl they don’t have the big names but are the most consistent team where Karachi and Lahore always go for the big names but since their management is paindu they end up getting thrashed. Brisbane heat is another example of RCB.

 

[ElRaja]

reflects poorly on moeen, he averages 35 in first class cricket and had 5 hundreds in his first 40 tests. he does not deserve a free ride in the batting order.

if i was the captain i would want every player in my team to feel responsible to contribute in every way, if i was his captain i wouldnt want him back tbh.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I think moeen should count himself lucky that he got so many matches based on hit and miss performances. I mean when he was good he could be very good but he was mostly mediocre. He also got a lot of positive press coverage solely due to his heritage and appearance.

For a player that overall is no more than decent he had plenty of opportunities and should not be complaining.

 

[Dulex9]

His bowling has improved leaps and bounds.

However he has played a lot of cricket for England.

 

[barah_admi]

So he bottles more often than not, and that makes him a bottler. Let’s not talk about who is disingenuous and who isn’t.

Everyone knows why people like you will go to any lengths to defend this mediocrity.

So he bottles more often than not, apart from being England's highest test wicket taker with a sub 30 average and a match winning hat trick. Plus a record breaking century in ODIs and terrific, match winning performances which made him lauded by his own captain and by the entire ECB management. But I assume you know more.

So, let us confirm, you have backed away from your original statement and now he is only a some time bottler...like any athlete in history. Got it.

 

[Mamoon]

So he bottles more often than not, apart from being England's highest test wicket taker with a sub 30 average and a match winning hat trick. Plus a record breaking century in ODIs and terrific, match winning performances which made him lauded by his own captain and by the entire ECB management. But I assume you know more.

So, let us confirm, you have backed away from your original statement and now he is only a some time bottler...like any athlete in history. Got it.

Do you have trouble reading? He bottles more often than not, and that doesn’t make him a some time bottler. It makes him a regular bottler.

He has played 60 Tests and apart from two home summers, he has nothing to show for.

His record against the vast majority of sides is ordinary with both bat and ball, and Australia in particular has exposed him for the mental midget that he is.

The reason why he got to play 60 Tests is because England couldn’t find a Test class specialist spinner post Swann, and they stuck with a bits and pieces player like Moeen who can bat and bowl a bit.

The same management that backed him have now booted him out, and his replacement has taken a 5-fer in South Africa which he cannot achieve in his dreams.

 

[Mamoon]

British Asians either can’t play cricket or they turn out to be mental midgets, and then their fans play the victim card and cry about discrimination.

Moeen
Ramprakash
Kabir Ali
Bopara
Panesar
Samit Patel
Shahzad
Solanki
Owais Shah
Sajid Mahmood
Haseeb Hameed

All of them got opportunities to play for England but proved to be failures. Nasser Hussain and Adil Rashid are the only two success stories.

However, Nasser was a success because of his leadership. As a pure batsman, he was decent at best. Rashid is just a decent Limited Overs spinner, that is it.

Saqib Mahmood is untested yet, but if history is anything to go by, it won’t be wise to pin your hopes on him.

Instead of wallowing in self-pity, British Asian cricketers and their fans need to wonder why they cannot succeed at the top level.

They need to work on their mentality and skills instead of blaming the ECB who have given them fair opportunities.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

British Asians either can’t play cricket or they turn out to be mental midgets, and then their fans play the victim card and cry about discrimination.

Moeen
Ramprakash
Kabir Ali
Bopara
Panesar
Samit Patel
Shahzad
Solanki
Owais Shah
Sajid Mahmood
Haseeb Hameed

All of them got opportunities to play for England but proved to be failures. Nasser Hussain and Adil Rashid are the only two success stories.

However, Nasser was a success because of his leadership. As a pure batsman, he was decent at best. Rashid is just a decent Limited Overs spinner, that is it.

Saqib Mahmood is untested yet, but if history is anything to go by, it won’t be wise to pin your hopes on him.

Instead of wallowing in self-pity, British Asian cricketers and their fans need to wonder why they cannot succeed at the top level.

They need to work on their mentality and skills instead of blaming the ECB who have given them fair opportunities.

Monty did well. Bit unfair to group him with the rest.

 

[Mamoon]

Monty did well. Bit unfair to group him with the rest.

Far better bowler than Moeen but ultimately not good enough to sustain his place in the side. He was leagues below Swann and by the time Swann was done, Panesar was also finished as a bowler.

 

[ManFan]

Crying because he is lazy and not committed.

Remarkably gifted but refused to work because he was the only half-way decent spinner England had who could also bat.

 

[barah_admi]

Do you have trouble reading? He bottles more often than not, and that doesn’t make him a some time bottler. It makes him a regular bottler.

He has played 60 Tests and apart from two home summers, he has nothing to show for.

His record against the vast majority of sides is ordinary with both bat and ball, and Australia in particular has exposed him for the mental midget that he is.

The reason why he got to play 60 Tests is because England couldn’t find a Test class specialist spinner post Swann, and they stuck with a bits and pieces player like Moeen who can bat and bowl a bit.

The same management that backed him have now booted him out, and his replacement has taken a 5-fer in South Africa which he cannot achieve in his dreams.

You are just back tracking yet again, so he goes from being a bottler to having two purple patches to being a bottler again. You said he could never win England I game, I gave you several instances...then you complained it only happened at home. What is your criteria exactly?

(Only good at home but Englands best bowler in an impressive series win in SL)

Heck, if we go back to your original post I clearly exposed you to not having even read interview, where he clearly states the ECB was always supportive of him, supported his decision to have time away from tests and he never (As far as I can see in the article on the GUardian and the other one posted her) use the word scapegoat. Can you find it for me?

You are imposing your own delusions and weaknesses onto your posts on this forum. Your next post is shameful...I wonder if you will make a list of all the failures from white cricketers in the 90s and 00s?