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‘India’s fast bowling reminds me of '80s West Indies’ : Brian Lara

Sachin136

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Speaking from his experience of having watched India’s attack operate in the Caribbean earlier this year, former West Indies batsman Brian Lara said that the current Indian fast bowling attack takes him back to the golden years of West Indies cricket, likening Virat Kohli’s pace battery to the West Indies attack of the ‘80s and ‘90s.

India travelled to the islands for a full tour in August this year and beat them in all three formats, sweeping the T20Is 3-0, winning the two completed one-day internationals, and then winning both games in the two-Test series.

It was yet another demonstration of why India have held on to the No.1 spot in the MRF Tyres ICC Test Team Rankings for the last three years, with much of their success stemming from the excellence of their imperious bowling attack.

Since Kohli took over as full-time captain at the start of 2015, India have averaged 25.12 per wicket – the best among all the Test-playing nations in the world. Of the 900 Test wickets they have taken under Kohli, fast bowlers have accounted for 418 of them. Moreover, their strike-rate of 51.8 is the best for any team to have played 10 or more Tests during this period, after South Africa.

"The Indian outfit - batting, bowling and fielding - is exceptional," Lara said at an event in Mumbai. "I thought their fast bowlers were sometimes unplayable [during the recent Test series in the West Indies]. So starting with that, you've got to give India credit with where their cricket is. They're at a very high point.

"Unbelievable. I saw them in the West Indies and I must say, what I was accustomed to in the past, in the '90s and early part of the 21st century, this is a little bit exceptional, this is pretty special.

"When you look at the quality - [Mohammed] Shami, [Jasprit] Bumrah, [Umesh] Yadav, they are unbelievable. And the guys that you have on the sidelines, it reminds me a little bit of what the West Indies had back in the '80s and '90s… the reserve strength is very important in assessing a team's ability. If your reserve strength is very good - Bhuvi [Bhuvneshwar Kumar] and all these guys are sitting on the sidelines - then it means that your attack is quality.”

I saw them [India's fast bowlers] in the West Indies and I must say, what I was accustomed to in the past, in the '90s and early part of the 21st century, this is a little bit exceptional, this is pretty special.

Lara further said that India are on their way to becoming a truly quality Test side that is capable of matching the all-conquering dominance of Steve Waugh and Ricky Ponting’s Australia, and Clive Lloyd’s West Indies.

"We all know the Indian team was not the most respected when they travelled. They were very respected at home, but now India on a world stage, anywhere they play, is a force to be reckoned with.

"Well, those teams dominated world cricket… the West Indies in the '70s and '80s, the Australians in the '90s and the early part of the 21st century. India has that capability. Obviously at home, they are very strong, they've always been very, very strong.

"They're now travelling well, they're playing abroad and beating oppositions, which is great. World cricket is a lot more competitive now, Australia, South Africa and England. So India will have to do it over a period of time, dominating all teams to be considered. But they are definitely a top cricketing nation at the moment."

https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/1455131
 
This is the greatest Asian Test team of all time, and it has the potential to be the third best after West Indies and Australia.
 
This is the greatest Asian Test team of all time, and it has the potential to be the third best after West Indies and Australia.


Still a long way to go yet but they have definitely made some strides towards greatness
 
This Indian bowling attack is not anywhere close to 80's Windies attack. Lara must be trying to get an IPL contract or something.
 
This Indian bowling attack is not anywhere close to 80's Windies attack. Lara must be trying to get an IPL contract or something.

He didn't say it was. He said that it reminds him of the great Windies attack. He should know, he must've seen them as a kid growing up.
 
He didn't say it was. He said that it reminds him of the great Windies attack. He should know, he must've seen them as a kid growing up.

The reason why Indian attack looks good is because other teams have regressed. Indian attack is not at invincible level.
 
The reason why Indian attack looks good is because other teams have regressed. Indian attack is not at invincible level.

Thats true of almost every ATG attack. In any case, the bowlers need to be judged against the bastmen of their era and not other bowlers. On that front, I could argue batting standards far exceed those from the ear Windies dominated.
 
This Indian bowling attack is not anywhere close to 80's Windies attack. Lara must be trying to get an IPL contract or something.

Lara is a legend of the game. One of the greatest to grace the field. Contracts come to him.

I could understand if he was some avg player from some associate or minnow team who would be struggling to get a contract.
 
Lara is a legend of the game. One of the greatest to grace the field. Contracts come to him.

I could understand if he was some avg player from some associate or minnow team who would be struggling to get a contract.

Not all legends make great coaches. Maradona was a legend but he is a horrible coach.

Also, Lara seems like a selfish guy. He batted for almost 3 days just so he could score 400*. I don't think he would be a good coach.
 
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Lara's stint as cricket expert in India is working well. :smith
 
Not all legends make great coaches. Maradona was a legend but he is a horrible coach.

Also, Lara seems like a selfish guy. He batted for almost 3 days just so he could score 400*. I don't think he would be a good coach.

Coaching is not the only contract players get.
 
Lara reminds me of Pele. Put a mic in-front of him and he'll try to say something many in his profession wouldn't, unfortunately for them there's a reason for that.
 
There is no way West Indies had anyone remotely close to the standard of Ashwin/Jadea. Their best spinner was Roger Harper who was distinctly average at best.
 
No way! Indian attack is no way near the West Indian one of the 80's era.
 
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The reason why Indian attack looks good is because other teams have regressed. Indian attack is not at invincible level.

By the same account Ind and Nzl of back then were no where as good as they are today. They were super weak.

Eng and Aus were big teams then as they are today. Qualitatively how are the 80s Aussies and English better than current era England and Aussies?

Srilanka didn’t played test cricket then and neither did South Africa.

India has infact smashed Srilanka who humiliated both Pakistan and South Africa. The same South Africa that clean swept Pakistan in a one sided series.

So technically the only team that regressed since the WI attack era are Pakistan but India don’t play Pakistan anyways.

By the way not taking anything away from the WI side of the 80s, they are an ATG side. Just trying to put some context to your comment.
 
This is the greatest Asian Test team of all time, and it has the potential to be the third best after West Indies and Australia.

Lol

They are not even close to Grame Smiths South Africa

And no, it isn't the greatest Asian test team of all time. They couldn't bear SA in SA, got smacked in England, only won in Aus due to Smith and Warner being banned. What exactly makes them special?

They are a good team, not great, merely good.
 
india are an elite team. they make other teams look fodder. Hence it appears like test cricket is declining. It isn't a weak era. Players are far fitter and stronger than ever before. Advancement in technology and nutrition has improved the international physical standards to play the modern game.

west indies played against a weak indian, new zeland team at the time. Same could also be said that they looked better than what they really were.

Truth is we don't know and it's impossible to compare. In fact it was a weaker era in the past due to Asian teams being behind in term so fitness levels. Now it's evened out and we can see how good india, pakistan are. Pakistan is still rebuilding but they will always be a dangerous side. Bangladesh are just pure cannon fodder unfortunately. They just suck.
 
Lol

They are not even close to Grame Smiths South Africa

And no, it isn't the greatest Asian test team of all time. They couldn't bear SA in SA, got smacked in England, only won in Aus due to Smith and Warner being banned. What exactly makes them special?

They are a good team, not great, merely good.

rofl they would destroy Grande Smith's team at home. Graeme Smith's team lost at home to englsnd, australia twice and drew a few times as well. India absolutely dominates and crushes teams at home. Away record will improve. 29 wins in 31 matches.

This team is incredibly special. 11 series wins at home in a row. No other team achieve this feat.

It is by far the greatest Asian team of all time, the GOAT home/fortress winners of all time and the third greatest team of all time.
 
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india are an elite team. they make other teams look fodder. Hence it appears like test cricket is declining. It isn't a weak era. Players are far fitter and stronger than ever before. Advancement in technology and nutrition has improved the international physical standards to play the modern game.

west indies played against a weak indian, new zeland team at the time. Same could also be said that they looked better than what they really were.

Truth is we don't know and it's impossible to compare. In fact it was a weaker era in the past due to Asian teams being behind in term so fitness levels. Now it's evened out and we can see how good india, pakistan are. Pakistan is still rebuilding but they will always be a dangerous side. Bangladesh are just pure cannon fodder unfortunately. They just suck.

That West Indian bowlers struggled on pitchces that didn't help. In 1983 India got thrashed on a spicy wicket at green park. In the next Test, Sunil Gavaskar thrashed them all over the park and scored a Test 100 in 94 balls against the pace quartet. Any time pitch was not helpful they were toothless. Infact Holding took a dig at Gavaskar for playing well only on good batting wickets. You could say the same about their bowlers who did well only on helpful wickets. In the 1997 test series where India failed to chase 120 so many blatant noballs were not called by home umpires. They overstepped by some distance. They were terrfic. even the back up. But apart from Marshall i don't see anyone else that is so much better than the current crop like Rabada, Steyn etc.
 
Another thing. those days tailenders were real tailenders. There was a match in 1975/76 India declared at 306/6 as they were scared of bowlers getting injured by hostile bowling by West Indians. These days you cannot easily take 10 wickets. With no day to rest in between it is even harder . Add the workload in other formats, it is a completely different ball game. Current West Indian bowlers are as good as most of the old ones. Roach is definitely more skilled than many of the WI fast bowlers from the 80s. Taylor, Edwards they had been as hostile as the bowlers from the 80s. How about Archer. Marshall, Ambrose two guys that i respect a lot. They are cut above. Even now we have seen on pitches which had bounce they could roll out teams. (vs England, vs Pakistan)
 
rofl they would destroy Grande Smith's team at home. Graeme Smith's team lost at home to englsnd, australia twice and drew a few times as well. India absolutely dominates and crushes teams at home. Away record will improve. 29 wins in 31 matches.

This team is incredibly special. 11 series wins at home in a row. No other team achieve this feat.

It is by far the greatest Asian team of all time, the GOAT home/fortress winners of all time and the third greatest team of all time.

HAHAH, again with the boasting.
 
Kaafi logo ko mirchi lagi hain yeha :)

Not long ago, Lara used to be a legend on this forum. Better than Sachin.
Today, he makes statements to get contracts! Irony died a thousand times today ;p
 
already won in australia. only saffers left. englund too. Except india actually decimates teams at home unlike Graeme Smith's saffers.

Yep, Graeme went overseas and decimated them in their own back yards for almost a DECADE :steyn

There is a term for India, HTB. Enjoy it while it lasts.
 
Jeez the salt in here.

He just said they "reminded" him of the Windies attack. He did not say they are as good as them.

Probably because they're are all right armers and are quick ,strong and tall (Ishant and Umesh are quite tall) made him think so. They've been simply brilliant in the last 3 years since the 2016 home season. Lara has absolutely no reason to suck up to anyone.
 
Yep, Graeme went overseas and decimated them in their own back yards for almost a DECADE :steyn

There is a term for India, HTB. Enjoy it while it lasts.

and lost to englund and ausyralia at home rofl. I would take home domination with zero series losses over some away wins and losing at home like Graeme Smith's saffers lel. Smith's saffers are a great side. I never denied that but they aren't beating kohli's team away or even drawing. Good luck.
 
Jeez the salt in here.

He just said they "reminded" him of the Windies attack. He did not say they are as good as them.

Probably because they're are all right armers and are quick ,strong and tall (Ishant and Umesh are quite tall) made him think so. They've been simply brilliant in the last 3 years since the 2016 home season. Lara has absolutely no reason to suck up to anyone.
umesh is built like a brick. one of the strongest bowlers around. nortje is another one. ngidi is fat lol.
 
and lost to englund and ausyralia at home rofl. I would take home domination with zero series losses over some away wins and losing at home like Graeme Smith's saffers lel. Smith's saffers are a great side. I never denied that but they aren't beating kohli's team away or even drawing. Good luck.

You got that wrong, lol. It's undefeated away for a DECADE and SOME home losses. Good luck.
 
You still lost at home though?? a few were draws too. You can say they are a great touring side. Not a GOAT home team like kohli's india. Good luck.

What is the slur for "away track bully"? Does no such thing exist? That's because it has no negative connotation. It is something much sought after. Unlike, HTB. Good luck.
 
Yep, Graeme went overseas and decimated them in their own back yards for almost a DECADE :steyn

There is a term for India, HTB. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Agree, that staffers team was very strong home and away, specially away, India r a decent strong team, as for Lara lol, don't know what he's been saying but no way this Indian attack is comparable to Windies 80's 90's, in fact Australian attack of 90's and definitely pakistan of 90's was much stronger
 
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Agree, that staffers team was very strong home and away, specially away, India r a decent strong team, as for Lara lol, don't know what he's been smoking but no way this Indian attack is comparable to Windies 80's 90's, in fact Australian attack of 90's and definitely pakistan of 90's was much stronger

They were strong away but not at home. saffers of smith. India are not decent strong. They are extremely strong especially at home and are good away.
 
So which Indian bowlers are as good as them::::
Andy Roberts, Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Colin Croft,Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh and Curtly Ambrose

Are Bumra, Shami, Yadab, Kumar and Pandia are same category of them?
 
What is the slur for "away track bully"? Does no such thing exist? That's because it has no negative connotation. It is something much sought after. Unlike, HTB. Good luck.

you lost several series at home and drew at home too. India never lost at home at all under kohli and have never lost a game when they have won the toss. home and away included.
 
So which Indian bowlers are as good as them::::
Andy Roberts, Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Colin Croft,Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh and Curtly Ambrose

Are Bumra, Shami, Yadab, Kumar and Pandia are same category of them?

I expect Pakistan fans to know the difference between "getting reminded of" and actually comparing.

Many posters (Pak) here have said in the past that Shaheen/Amir and Hasan Ali remind them of Wasim and Waqar respectively. Now tell me, are they as good as the 2 W's ?
 
So which Indian bowlers are as good as them::::
Andy Roberts, Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Colin Croft,Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh and Curtly Ambrose

Are Bumra, Shami, Yadab, Kumar and Pandia are same category of them?

bumrah is better than every bowler in that list. Those bowlers bowled in bowler friendly era for one. They dint have to play as many games and they dint have to play t20.
Current bowlers are far fitter and there are no more tail enders.
 
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bumrah is better than every bowler in that list. Those bowlers bowled in bowler friendly era for one. They dint have to play as many games and they dint have to play t20.
Current bowlers are far fitter and there are no more tail enders.

By your logic Bumra is the greatest fast bowler in the history if he retires now so Shami, Kumar, Pandia, Yadab are one of the greatest
 
I expect Pakistan fans to know the difference between "getting reminded of" and actually comparing.

Many posters (Pak) here have said in the past that Shaheen/Amir and Hasan Ali remind them of Wasim and Waqar respectively. Now tell me, are they as good as the 2 W's ?

Exactly!!!!
 
By your logic Bumra is the greatest fast bowler in the history if he retires now so Shami, Kumar, Pandia, Yadab are one of the greatest

shami is a world class bowler. kumar is also a world class bowler. Those west indian quatro are better than them 2 but not bumrah. bumrah is a GOAT talent.
 
you lost several series at home and drew at home too. India never lost at home at all under kohli and have never lost a game when they have won the toss. home and away included.

The toss statistic is pointless to this discussion. It's just another boast which indicates more about the toss than the actual team. We've had this discussion already.
 
bumrah is better than every bowler in that list. Those bowlers bowled in bowler friendly era for one.

You didn’t see any of them, I think. They bowled at batters with tighter defensive techniques than those of today, and who were better at avoiding bouncers.

Bumrah is quick and accurate but I am not sure that he could displace any of those guys.

That action is an injury waiting to happen and I am surprised he got this far.
 
The toss statistic is pointless to this discussion. It's just another boast which indicates more about the toss than the actual team. We've had this discussion already.

it actually matters alot. Because back then india dint prepare square turners or low bouncing flat wickets for touring south african sides. hence the close games, draws away from home etc. south africa always tailored their pitches for the pace attack they possess.

Anyway it doesn't matter. At the end of the day kohli won 11 tests at home in a row and broke a record. This is a great side and are just as good if not better than Smith's saffers.
 
rofl they would destroy Grande Smith's team at home. Graeme Smith's team lost at home to englsnd, australia twice and drew a few times as well. India absolutely dominates and crushes teams at home. Away record will improve. 29 wins in 31 matches.

This team is incredibly special. 11 series wins at home in a row. No other team achieve this feat.

It is by far the greatest Asian team of all time, the GOAT home/fortress winners of all time and the third greatest team of all time.

Graeme Smith’s team was beaten at home by probably the best England side in the last forty years, at a time when Donald had retired and Steyn had not come through.

BTW, Australia had a home and away winning streak of sixteen tests, twice.

India lost 4-1 to the weakest England batting line in history.
 
You didn’t see any of them, I think. They bowled at batters with tighter defensive techniques than those of today, and who were better at avoiding bouncers.

Bumrah is quick and accurate but I am not sure that he could displace any of those guys.

That action is an injury waiting to happen and I am surprised he got this far.

Different era. different training, nutriton, conditioning.

game lasts longer and players play more games due to t20. Lots of factors need to be considered. pitch conditions and the strength of teams at the time were different. They definitrly played in bowling friendly conditions at the time.

bumrah, cummins, rabada are just as good as every one of Those great bowlers in the past. past is always glorified for some reason. Yet players are actually much fitter, stronger and faster now.
 
it actually matters alot. Because back then india dint prepare square turners or low bouncing flat wickets for touring south african sides. hence the close games, draws away from home etc. south africa always tailored their pitches for the pace attack they possess.

Anyway it doesn't matter. At the end of the day kohli won 11 tests at home in a row and broke a record. This is a great side and are just as good if not better than Smith's saffers.

Again downplaying your earlier boasting. Until India starts winning away from home, they will always stay a "decent" side.
 
Again downplaying your earlier boasting. Until India starts winning away from home, they will always stay a "decent" side.

They are literally 2 wins away from doing just that. But they don't even have to achieve those fears when they can dominate at home for so long. No other team has been able to do it. So that's enough to overtake Smith's saffers anyway.

and lol at decent side. They are the GOAT home track team of all time. kings of defending their fortress.
 
Graeme Smith’s team was beaten at home by probably the best England side in the last forty years, at a time when Donald had retired and Steyn had not come through.

BTW, Australia had a home and away winning streak of sixteen tests, twice.

India lost 4-1 to the weakest England batting line in history.

Smith's team lost several times and drew twice at home too. so yea it matters in this debate.

India lost due to selection bias. won't happen again when they actually pick the right players. Either way they will blank them at home to return the favour.
 
They are literally 2 wins away from doing just that. But they don't even have to achieve those fears when they can dominate at home for so long. No other team has been able to do it. So that's enough to overtake Smith's saffers anyway.

and lol at decent side. They are the GOAT home track team of all time. kings of defending their fortress.

I can only cringe at these ramblings. It's not enough to overtake Smith's team, no matter how you phrase it.
 
I can only cringe at these ramblings. It's not enough to overtake Smith's team, no matter how you phrase it.

winning at home and extending their winning streak lol is not good enough? it's more than enough. Winning away is just a bonus. Like I said 2 series wins away from being the GOAT TEAM of all time let alone Smith's saffers who are probably 4th.

if they finish with an unbeaten streak at home that's more than enough to overtake Smith's saffers. All they need to do is merely compete with england away to seal it. A draw there and a draw in s.africa would be more than adequate.

When no other team is able to dominate at home like they have, it clearly indicates that this indian side is special and a possible GOAT candidate team.
 
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winning at home and extending their winning streak lol is not good enough? it's more than enough. Winning away is just a bonus. Like I said 2 series wins away from being the GOAT TEAM of all time let alone Smith's saffers who are probably 4th.

if they finish with an unbeaten streak at home that's more than enough to overtake Smith's saffers. All they need to do is merely compete with england away to seal it. A draw there and a draw in s.africa would be more than adequate.

When no other team is able to dominate at home like they have, it clearly indicates that this indian side is special and a possible GOAT candidate team.

I'm sorry, so India is already the 3rd best team in history?
 
I'm sorry, so India is already the 3rd best team in history?

above Smith's saffers for sure and yes why not.

The so called GOAT England team which was btw filled with south Africans lel lost at home too and simply weren't that dominant. Their peak was too short.

India of 2003- 2009 were also better than that English team. In fact india from 2003-2009 was only slighlty inferior to Smith's south africa. This indian side is far better than them so yea I would put them ahead of Smith's saffers.
 
They were strong away but not at home. saffers of smith. India are not decent strong. They are extremely strong especially at home and are good away.

I actually bro rate India as a good side, currently the best test team around, but the current era is deficient of many quality bats, who have Hugh issues with seam and swing, even this Indian line up bar kholi were badly exposed by England bowlers in seaming conditions, which suggests that they are in fact flat track bullies like many are, which I include Warner in to that as well, as for bowling Indian attack it's good but let's not get carried away please
 
I actually bro rate India as a good side, currently the best test team around, but the current era is deficient of many quality bats, who have Hugh issues with seam and swing, even this Indian line up bar kholi were badly exposed by England bowlers in seaming conditions, which suggests that they are in fact flat track bullies like many are, which I include Warner in to that as well, as for bowling Indian attack it's good but let's not get carried away please

t20 is the reason for that. Players play too many games. doesnt mean they aren't as talented as the past great who played in bowling friendly era. Teams are as good and as fit as ever.
 
t20 is the reason for that. Players play too many games. doesnt mean they aren't as talented as the past great who played in bowling friendly era. Teams are as good and as fit as ever.

So basically you do agree that batsman of this era have Hugh tecnical issues with the moving ball, sports science is obviously well advanced so players now are fitter to play all formats, but having seen cricket from mid 80,s onwards I can definitely confidently say the players from 80,s- 90's are far superior, both skill wised and mentally much tougher, these current so called super stars are pampered
 
So basically you do agree that batsman of this era have Hugh tecnical issues with the moving ball, sports science is obviously well advanced so players now are fitter to play all formats, but having seen cricket from mid 80,s onwards I can definitely confidently say the players from 80,s- 90's are far superior, both skill wised and mentally much tougher, these current so called super stars are pampered

I am not sure if you have seen guys like Krish Srikkanth who was the highest run getter in one of the most bowler friendly world tournament ever (1985 benson hedges). Same way Shastri also topped the charts. Neither of them were comfortable against moving ball. Infact Srikkanth had one of the most agricultural technique one can see. He thrashed the WI bowlers all over when he clicked. Someone like Chetan chauhan (who never scored a 100 as an opener) survived so long as an opener for India. He would not have found a place even for his state in this era. I disagree with your statement having seen the guys from the 80s. Every team had one or two world class batsman.But they also had so many dud batsmen. In the neutral umpire era, third umpire era, T20 era, bouncer restrictioin era these bowlers would have struggled a lot more. Even as late sa in 1992 Australian pitches were bowler friendly. Keeper would stand yards behind the wicket at Perth. You don't see that behavior in any of the Australian pitches these days. Pitches got flatter a while ago. Lords is a batsman's paradise these days. They rely on clouds. Only pitches that got some spice is SA pitches.

80bFDPD.jpg


In this

Marshall 79 wickets in 15 tests
Garner 73 wicket in 13 tests
Holding 43 wickets in 10 tests

all the wickets came against Australia/England home and away. Pitches were spicier in all 3 places. Engladn was very weak. Blanked 10-0 by West Indies in back to back series.

Come to present now (2018)

Bumrah 48 wicets in 9 tests
Shami 47 wickets in 12 tests
Ishant 41 wickets in 8 tests

On spicier wicket i would say Windies bowling could be lethal. But on flat wickets with very little movement, bounce, pace like you see these days many current crop of bowlers (not just Indian bowlers) would do better job than them. Because i have seen the same Windies bowlers struggle on flat pitches. They were faster by comparison. Not as fast as the current bowlers. Infact many teams lacked genuine pace. WI was the only one that had. England designed a bowling machine to negotiate the fast bowling of that era. Think about current era nad how many bowl over 145k effortlessly.
 
I am not sure if you have seen guys like Krish Srikkanth who was the highest run getter in one of the most bowler friendly world tournament ever (1985 benson hedges). Same way Shastri also topped the charts. Neither of them were comfortable against moving ball. Infact Srikkanth had one of the most agricultural technique one can see. He thrashed the WI bowlers all over when he clicked. Someone like Chetan chauhan (who never scored a 100 as an opener) survived so long as an opener for India. He would not have found a place even for his state in this era. I disagree with your statement having seen the guys from the 80s. Every team had one or two world class batsman.But they also had so many dud batsmen. In the neutral umpire era, third umpire era, T20 era, bouncer restrictioin era these bowlers would have struggled a lot more. Even as late sa in 1992 Australian pitches were bowler friendly. Keeper would stand yards behind the wicket at Perth. You don't see that behavior in any of the Australian pitches these days. Pitches got flatter a while ago. Lords is a batsman's paradise these days. They rely on clouds. Only pitches that got some spice is SA pitches.

View attachment 96103


In this

Marshall 79 wickets in 15 tests
Garner 73 wicket in 13 tests
Holding 43 wickets in 10 tests

all the wickets came against Australia/England home and away. Pitches were spicier in all 3 places. Engladn was very weak. Blanked 10-0 by West Indies in back to back series.

Come to present now (2018)

Bumrah 48 wicets in 9 tests
Shami 47 wickets in 12 tests
Ishant 41 wickets in 8 tests

On spicier wicket i would say Windies bowling could be lethal. But on flat wickets with very little movement, bounce, pace like you see these days many current crop of bowlers (not just Indian bowlers) would do better job than them. Because i have seen the same Windies bowlers struggle on flat pitches. They were faster by comparison. Not as fast as the current bowlers. Infact many teams lacked genuine pace. WI was the only one that had. England designed a bowling machine to negotiate the fast bowling of that era. Think about current era nad how many bowl over 145k effortlessly.

the best most sensible post ever made on PP. it's hard to comprehend for most delusional nostalgic people here though. If anything the w.indies Quattro are overrated. We have never seen them on flat wickets and in a batting friendly environment. Current crop of bowlers are just as good if not better. Just like how india under kohli is superior to Smith's saffers.
 
So basically you do agree that batsman of this era have Hugh tecnical issues with the moving ball, sports science is obviously well advanced so players now are fitter to play all formats, but having seen cricket from mid 80,s onwards I can definitely confidently say the players from 80,s- 90's are far superior, both skill wised and mentally much tougher, these current so called super stars are pampered

I would say bowling standards are far superior now. Batting at the time was far more difficult due to less restrictions and no protection. However teams lacked fitness levels and they also played shorter games back then. Players now are just far more well rounded and balanced. Majority of the players currently play on batting friendly wickets hence they are more accustomed to playing on such tracks rather than spicy ones that offer swing movement etc. Players now actually possess more shot making ability compared to the past era's. The workload is just far too much as they have so many commitments like franchise leagues, t20 and this unfortunately won't allow them enough time to adapt to test scenarios in time. Most teams that tour don't even play many practice games like in the past. Should they ditch t20 and focus entirely on test cricket and odi, then I can guarantee you the current crop will be far superior in every facet of the game. Game has evolved. No longer can unfit players make it into the team due to talent alone. There are some exceptions but those are usually abberarions than the norm. Except for pakistan ofcourse. Those boys seem to love munching on curry too much. Maybe if they actually change their diet they can start winning in tests cricket again. That's why I respect misbah. Great captain. He set high fitness standards and that's the reason why they achieved world number 1 status in tests even though it only lasted for a short while.

Pakistam are always loaded in talent. World class domestic structure but at the moment their fitness standards are lagging behind. The moment they fix this serious issue, I have no doubt that they would be a top 1-3 side again. They can never be counted out though. Pakistani players have this knack of performing when it matters like a champion team. True embodiment of a cornered tiger that can decimate any team on their day. Even to this day, I don't fear any team as much as I fear pakistan in important games. They are my second favourite team along with saffers.
 
Not even close.

As for kohli vs graeme smiths team.
Smith's team is still ahead bcoz of being unbeaten away from home which is a bigger achievement than home dominance.
If kohlis team draws/wins the next two series in New Zealand anf Australia then they will be on par with smiths team.
 
OTT statement but off late I've been hearing a lot of OTT praise for Smith's side. What did that side do exactly to deserve any such praise? I don't remember them winning a series in India and definitely remember them losing a few at home. Heck, didn't India draw in SA when Smith and co. were at their peak?
 
I am not sure if you have seen guys like Krish Srikkanth who was the highest run getter in one of the most bowler friendly world tournament ever (1985 benson hedges). Same way Shastri also topped the charts. Neither of them were comfortable against moving ball. Infact Srikkanth had one of the most agricultural technique one can see. He thrashed the WI bowlers all over when he clicked. Someone like Chetan chauhan (who never scored a 100 as an opener) survived so long as an opener for India. He would not have found a place even for his state in this era. I disagree with your statement having seen the guys from the 80s. Every team had one or two world class batsman.But they also had so many dud batsmen. In the neutral umpire era, third umpire era, T20 era, bouncer restrictioin era these bowlers would have struggled a lot more. Even as late sa in 1992 Australian pitches were bowler friendly. Keeper would stand yards behind the wicket at Perth. You don't see that behavior in any of the Australian pitches these days. Pitches got flatter a while ago. Lords is a batsman's paradise these days. They rely on clouds. Only pitches that got some spice is SA pitches.

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Marshall 79 wickets in 15 tests
Garner 73 wicket in 13 tests
Holding 43 wickets in 10 tests

all the wickets came against Australia/England home and away. Pitches were spicier in all 3 places. Engladn was very weak. Blanked 10-0 by West Indies in back to back series.

Come to present now (2018)

Bumrah 48 wicets in 9 tests
Shami 47 wickets in 12 tests
Ishant 41 wickets in 8 tests

On spicier wicket i would say Windies bowling could be lethal. But on flat wickets with very little movement, bounce, pace like you see these days many current crop of bowlers (not just Indian bowlers) would do better job than them. Because i have seen the same Windies bowlers struggle on flat pitches. They were faster by comparison. Not as fast as the current bowlers. Infact many teams lacked genuine pace. WI was the only one that had. England designed a bowling machine to negotiate the fast bowling of that era. Think about current era nad how many bowl over 145k effortlessly.

Also keep in mind Indian fast bowlers also have to share wickets with 2 of the best modern day spinners in the world, one of them who is the fastest to 300 and the other the fastest left armer to 200. The other 4 line ups did not have a single spinner or atleast anyone of note.

That makes the Indian trio's achievement that much sweeter
 
You didn’t see any of them, I think. They bowled at batters with tighter defensive techniques than those of today, and who were better at avoiding bouncers.

Bumrah is quick and accurate but I am not sure that he could displace any of those guys.

That action is an injury waiting to happen and I am surprised he got this far.

We had 50 years of advances in sports science, fitness and analytics. India with 1.3 billion people and Bangladesh with 160 million people became major cricket playing countries, adding a lot of competition and increasing the quality of players. But despite all this, you think that the quality of today's players has actually deteriorated (even though the opposite happens in most other sports)?
 
the best most sensible post ever made on PP. it's hard to comprehend for most delusional nostalgic people here though. If anything the w.indies Quattro are overrated. We have never seen them on flat wickets and in a batting friendly environment. Current crop of bowlers are just as good if not better. Just like how india under kohli is superior to Smith's saffers.

Except that it isn't correct.

WI did not beat England 10-0 in 1984, they beat England 5-0. The other 5-0 win was in 1986/87. The pitches in England were not "spicy" - the sun shone all summer and they were all flat - WI chased down 330 to win at Lord's for the loss of one wicket. England were not "very weak" as they immediately proceeded to beat India in India, without Botham.

That's the trouble with us delusional nostalgic people - some of us were actually there for some of those matches, so we have informed opinion, not just based on spreadsheets.
 
OTT statement but off late I've been hearing a lot of OTT praise for Smith's side. What did that side do exactly to deserve any such praise? I don't remember them winning a series in India and definitely remember them losing a few at home. Heck, didn't India draw in SA when Smith and co. were at their peak?

Perhaps you should read up on it before calling it OTT:

"Until they were swept away on a Nagpur dust bowl last week, South Africa had gone a stunning nine years undefeated in a Test series away from home, though India has put the visitors well and truly to bed in the past month.

Only the champion West Indies outfits of the 1980s and an Australian team featuring the greatest batsman the world has ever seen can be mentioned in the same breath."

Source: https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricke...y/news-story/085b670d13e50a5dd52dc6b6b3d208e4

This coming from the Aussies of all people.
 
Not even close.

As for kohli vs graeme smiths team.
Smith's team is still ahead bcoz of being unbeaten away from home which is a bigger achievement than home dominance.
If kohlis team draws/wins the next two series in New Zealand anf Australia then they will be on par with smiths team.

I am very sure they will do
 
Perhaps you should read up on it before calling it OTT:

"Until they were swept away on a Nagpur dust bowl last week, South Africa had gone a stunning nine years undefeated in a Test series away from home, though India has put the visitors well and truly to bed in the past month.

Only the champion West Indies outfits of the 1980s and an Australian team featuring the greatest batsman the world has ever seen can be mentioned in the same breath."

Source: https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricke...y/news-story/085b670d13e50a5dd52dc6b6b3d208e4

This coming from the Aussies of all people.

Sorry but not losing sadly doesn’t equate to winning. Former is good, latter is spectacular and deserves praise in my book.
 
The current Indian test team is horribly underrated on PP. No team has won 11 home series in a row. After those great Australian and West Indies team, how many teams have been number 1 for 3 years or so?

I would say if they top the rankings for another couple of years or so ( which is likely, they will be up there for one of the Asia’s greatest team.
 
The current Indian test team is horribly underrated on PP. No team has won 11 home series in a row. After those great Australian and West Indies team, how many teams have been number 1 for 3 years or so?

I would say if they top the rankings for another couple of years or so ( which is likely, they will be up there for one of the Asia’s greatest team.

This is the weakest South African team in my lifetime
The weakest Sri Lankan team in my lifetime
Australia seem to getting the best out of limited players

It’s only really New Zealand and England that can challenge India and both have better bowling attacks on paper than India

The West Indies team that blew Pakistan in the world cup is the best West Indies bowling attack I’ve seen since ambrose and walsh were joined by dillon


Russell,cottrell and Thomas should really go on to better things
And then u have Gabriel, Edwards and roach in the back ground
 
It's an excellent bowling attack but not sure how it reminds Lara of WI attack- an OTT statement this.

Bumrah, Ishant and Shami are the top pacers for India while at home, Ishant gets replaced by Umesh or they would go with even more spinners.

India are unbeatable at home, and have defeated weaker Aus, SL and WI teams.

However, everyone should accept that they lost to a strong SA side in SA in 2018 tour, the quartet pace attack, a fresh de Villiers, opening pair of Elgar-Markram and Amla at 3 with Faf being captain. The same SA side defeated a strong Australian side 3-1 next month only.

England loss had a lot to do with toss, Indian batsmen struggle vs Sam Curran and some other poor performances, Ashwin threw one game for India, openers were poor throughout while Rahane also showed no good signs.

NZ is a strong side, I think India aren't winning there as well. But India will beat NZ comprehensively at home even though they are strong now.

So, we need more performances away from home to be mentioned as the greatest team after WI of 80s and Australia of 00s.
 
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No it doesn't, our boys have been phenomenal for the last 2 years but that WI team did it for a decade and a half, one set replaced the other seamlessly and bench strength was always awesome. No comparison presently.

Lara seems to have a grudge against the 80s West Indies team, I often see him underrate that team and find faults.
 
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This is the weakest South African team in my lifetime
The weakest Sri Lankan team in my lifetime
Australia seem to getting the best out of limited players

It’s only really New Zealand and England that can challenge India and both have better bowling attacks on paper than India

The West Indies team that blew Pakistan in the world cup is the best West Indies bowling attack I’ve seen since ambrose and walsh were joined by dillon


Russell,cottrell and Thomas should really go on to better things
And then u have Gabriel, Edwards and roach in the back ground

You must be very young if this is the weakest SL team in your lifetime. They beat Pakistan in the UAE (which no other team could do before them), Australia at home, and SA in SA (which no Asian team had done before).
 
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