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2019 World Cup to put an end to a lot of debates regarding players and teams

Kohli The King of Chase

Kohli The King of Chase

Local Club Captain
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Runs
2,572
I have been reading a lot of threads regarding players' level and their comparison, and also about Countries.

A big stage is just over an year away.

No one can have an excuse this time saying that X team didn't play against Y team, so XYZ batsmen was able to score, or ABC bowler was able to get wickets.

In the upcoming WC, each team has to play against all remaining 9 teams.

And no minnows (apart from Afghanistan), to increase ur stats.

No team can win a TITLE by winning just 4 matches(CT). #Pakistan 2017

No one can enter the Knock out stage by just defeating poor teams/ by fluke. #Bangladesh WC 15, CT 17


Some of the debates which could end are,

Player comparison:

1.Bumrah vs Hassan vs Fizz
2.Chahal vs Shadab vs Rashid
3.Faheem vs Pandya
4.Sarfraz vs Mushfiqur
5.Smith vs Williamson vs Root

Individual players

1.Kohli a choker
2.Bhubneshwar has improved
3.Fakhar a hack
4.Tamim the 2nd best Asian opener
5.Babar the 2nd best Asian batsman
6.Dhoni will not lose games for his team
7.Amir brings his A game when the stakes are high
8.Rohit, Amir's bunny
9.Williamson in Fab 4
10. Babar scores only against WI and SL


Country comparison:

1.India vs Pakistan bowling attack
2.Bangladesh / Pakistan the 2nd best Asian side
3.Pakistan are strong enough to beat India (without a FLUKE)


Country:

1.Pakistan has improved in LOIs
2.BAN has improved in LOIs
3.Afghanistan has improved
4.England have the best batting line up



I am not being biased here. I just wrote what I can remember. You can also add further Comparisons if u wish.

Note:
1.Please don't quarrel.
2.Give ur opinion
3.Debate.
4.If the opposite person disagrees, then agree to disagree.
 
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how can the 2019 possibly change the fact Rohit has become Amir's bunny and looked an absolute dud.

You also can't base opinions on one tournament like most PPer's do based on ct 2017, this is harsh
 
zain7077 said:
how can the 2019 possibly change the fact Rohit has become Amir's bunny and looked an absolute dud.

You also can't base opinions on one tournament like most PPer's do based on ct 2017, this is harsh
Click to expand...

This is not my opinion. General opinions of P P members. I added what all I have see here.
 
With this format of the World Cup truly the best team will win and India will get exposed they don't have the bowling attack to do well
 
Fully expecting Fakhar Zaman and Babar Azam to dominate World Cup 2019.
 
Round robin format is the best, a true test of World Champions, just like in 1992 when Pakistan won!

I think this time, England have the best chance.

Just hope the weather doesn't ruin it!
 
Excellent post by OP and can see this thread be filled until the end of the WC when all these claims/predictions/developments will be settled.

Because of the nature of this format Pakistan will have to punch above their weight to make it in to the semis, won't be easy but you can't write them off especially in England. If they can get past the group stage I back them to go all the way however it is going to be a tough task to beat any of the likes of Aus, SA, NZ, England and India when I can only see one match winner with the bat. Fakhar Zaman needs more support from the other end.

Having said all that a lot can change as we've seen with Australia who will possibly be without their super duo batsmen.
 
Ends the debate that Pakistan can't chase (haha I hope).
Ends the debate that Pakistan can't beat India in a WC.
Confirms that Pakistan has the best bowling line up in the World.
Confirms that Pakistan is the best Asian tournament team in recent years.
 
Babar Azam:

ODI stats
Against Windies

Matches 6
Runs 514
Best 125*
Average 102.80
Centuries 4

Against Sri Lanka

Matches 8
Runs 350
Highest 103
Average 58.33
Centuries 2
Half-centuries 1

Career Figures

Matches 41
Runs 1789
Highest 125*
Average 51.11
Centuries 7
Half-centuries 7
 
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backfootpunch said:
Excellent post by OP and can see this thread be filled until the end of the WC when all these claims/predictions/developments will be settled.

Because of the nature of this format Pakistan will have to punch above their weight to make it in to the semis, won't be easy but you can't write them off especially in England. If they can get past the group stage I back them to go all the way however it is going to be a tough task to beat any of the likes of Aus, SA, NZ, England and India when I can only see one match winner with the bat. Fakhar Zaman needs more support from the other end.

Having said all that a lot can change as we've seen with Australia who will possibly be without their super duo batsmen.
Click to expand...

Interesting why you back Fakhar so much but don’t back Babar to succeed.
 
Consistency will be rewarded. I see India, England, NZ in the semis. Australia used to be an easy SF pick but not anymore. The format doesn't suit Pakistani Young guns unfortunately as it requires a team to win atleast 5 or 6 games. Pak will break the streak though. This team is fearless and doesn't carry old wounds but are very inexperienced.

England will be favorites. They don't have any glaring weakness. India has been the tournament team in the last few years. They will reach SF easily. NZ always punches above it's weight in WC. They also have a very good team. This being his last WC, I think AB will take the Saffers to atleast SF. The rest of the order would be Aussies, Pak, BD, SL, Afg, WI
 
babajee said:
Interesting why you back Fakhar so much but don’t back Babar to succeed.
Click to expand...

As mentioned recently he won't succeed if he continues to be:

1. Milestone focused - this holds more significance for him than the team's requirements whether it be raising the run rate in a run chase or helping his team reach an above par scar

2. Thin as bones - He doesn't have the power game to go up the gears and raise his SR when required. This is evident by his low SRs of 80 in Eng (without a half century) and Aus. Needs to develop muscle mass, so not only he can hit more sixes but also drive the ball more powerfully.

3. Mental midget - some players can raise their game when the stakes are higher and you can see this from their body language (like with Amir and so far with Fakhar) whether they relish the occasion or show fear of failure. Babar falls into the latter.

There are also other technical issues in his game for e.g. suspect against spin - to compound his batting ability even further.

Fakhar Zaman during the NZ ODI seris was let down because of the constant barrage of wickets at the other end (including Babar who was awful) but was still the shining light during a dark series for the side.
 
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backfootpunch said:
As mentioned recently he won't succeed if he continues to be:

1. Milestone focused - this holds more significance for him than the team's requirements whether it be raising the run rate in a run chase or helping his team reach an above par scar

2. Thin as bones - He doesn't have the power game to go up the gears and raise his SR when required. This is evident by his low SRs of 80 in Eng (without a half century) and Aus. Needs to develop muscle mass, so not only he can hit more sixes but also drive the ball more powerfully.

3. Mental midget - some players can raise their game when the stakes are higher and you can see this from their body language (like with Amir and so far with Fakhar) whether they relish the occasion or show fear of failure. Babar falls into the latter.

There are also other technical issues in his game for e.g. suspect against spin - to compound his batting ability even further.

Fakhar Zaman during the NZ ODI seris was let down because of the constant barrage of wickets at the other end (including Babar who was awful) but was still the shining light during a dark series for the side.
Click to expand...

1) Milestone focused... isn’t every great batsman? It’s the hunger for runs that pushes you for success.

2) He can accelerate definitely... IIRC he was on 50 off like 75 balls against Australia then got to his century off 109 balls. Also he has been working on power hitting and we have seen this in PSL

3) Actually his subdued nature is beneficial because it help him under pressure... he’s not a fiery character who will wilt when the going gets tough. Quite similar to Fakhar imo.

He’s not the best player of spin but he’s more than decent in limited overs. It’s only in test matches where he’s struggled to negotiate the likes of Herath.

The only problem in Babar’s ODI game are his slow starts. If he can fix that he will be one of the greatest Pakistani batsmen of all time.
 
It will not end all debates, because we are yet to analyze the knocks and the bowling, we don't know yet whether Kohli will score a hundred in the semi final after being dropped twice, etc.

You also cannot know if x player will be injured.
 
2019 will be the year of Asif Ali.......Mark this post (He will help us bring the Cup home in a substantial way!)
 
CricFan2012 said:
It will not end all debates, because we are yet to analyze the knocks and the bowling, we don't know yet whether Kohli will score a hundred in the semi final after being dropped twice, etc.

You also cannot know if x player will be injured.
Click to expand...

That's why I said it could, not WILL.

And not all atleast 6/10 debates would be settled
 
Nice work [MENTION=145950]Kohli, The King of Chase[/MENTION]. A very level-headed poster.

The WC' 19 is the most exciting I believe since the 99' Cup.
No surprise that it is being held in ENG, which produces entertaining pitches for viewing.

My top FOUR: NZ, AUS, IND, PAK.

SF 1: IND v. PAK
SF 2: NZ v. AUS

FINAL: PAK v. AUS. A rematch of the 99' Final.

This time, PAK bowls first and gets AUS under 150. Sarfraz and Talat help chase down the total after an early hiccup.

Player of the Tournament: V. Kohli (400+ runs)
 
ManFan said:
Nice work [MENTION=145950]Kohli, The King of Chase[/MENTION]. A very level-headed poster.

The WC' 19 is the most exciting I believe since the 99' Cup.
No surprise that it is being held in ENG, which produces entertaining pitches for viewing.

My top FOUR: NZ, AUS, IND, PAK.

SF 1: IND v. PAK
SF 2: NZ v. AUS

FINAL: PAK v. AUS. A rematch of the 99' Final.

This time, PAK bowls first and gets AUS under 150. Sarfraz and Talat help chase down the total after an early hiccup.

Player of the Tournament: V. Kohli (400+ runs)
Click to expand...

Thank you for the complement
 
pakistani pride said:
All the top teams have strong teams. On the day during a BIG ICC KO game 9 out of 10 times they will bottle it.
Click to expand...

Well, since 2013, England have been in the CT Final, and WorldT20 Final - admittedly bottled it on both occasions, but there is no denying the England squad are improving in ICC tournaments.

Personally I think the only weakness in the ODI squad is Anderson, he is in the twilight of his career.
 
Pak always does well in England. I expect them to lose in the Semis this time.

India also has a great chance to make it to Semis and could lose there to Aus or England.
 
R3verse Swing said:
Well, since 2013, England have been in the CT Final, and WorldT20 Final - admittedly bottled it on both occasions, but there is no denying the England squad are improving in ICC tournaments.

Personally I think the only weakness in the ODI squad is Anderson, he is in the twilight of his career.
Click to expand...

Anderson does not play anymore in their ODI unit. They have Stokes, Woakes, Wood, Rashid, Ali.

England always choke no matter if it is SF's or Finals. I am hoping PAK faces them in either of the two because they cannot handle the pressure and that too at home.

A home team on a winning streak has too much pressure to perform. NZ in 92', NZ in 15', PAK in 87'. Very rarely do you see a home team continuously win in a tournament as big as the WC. Only example I can think of, is INDIA in 11'.
 
Lot of posters here be ready for some humble pies by the end of 2019 wc.

Everyone please be here. Don't quit PP.

Just a banter.

On a serious note, I am eagerly waiting for the FAHEEM VS PANDYA to end atleast.

It's already reached 1000 + posts..lol
 
Kohli said:
Lot of posters here be ready for some humble pies by the end of 2019 wc.

Everyone please be here. Don't quit PP.

Just a banter.

On a serious note, I am eagerly waiting for the FAHEEM VS PANDYA to end atleast.

It's already reached 1000 + posts..lol
Click to expand...

Pandya will outperform Faheem in runs and wickets.

But Fahim will hold the Cup in his hands. :asif
 
R3verse Swing said:
Well, since 2013, England have been in the CT Final, and WorldT20 Final - admittedly bottled it on both occasions, but there is no denying the England squad are improving in ICC tournaments.

Personally I think the only weakness in the ODI squad is Anderson, he is in the twilight of his career.
Click to expand...

Anderson who?????
 
Kohli said:
Lot of posters here be ready for some humble pies by the end of 2019 wc.

Everyone please be here. Don't quit PP.

Just a banter.

On a serious note, I am eagerly waiting for the FAHEEM VS PANDYA to end atleast.

It's already reached 1000 + posts..lol
Click to expand...

Faheem vs Pandya will end up like Kohli vs Umar

(Faheem = Kohli, Pandya = Umar)

Already the signs are clear.
 
rhony said:
Consistency will be rewarded. I see India, England, NZ in the semis. Australia used to be an easy SF pick but not anymore. The format doesn't suit Pakistani Young guns unfortunately as it requires a team to win atleast 5 or 6 games. Pak will break the streak though. This team is fearless and doesn't carry old wounds but are very inexperienced.

England will be favorites. They don't have any glaring weakness. India has been the tournament team in the last few years. They will reach SF easily. NZ always punches above it's weight in WC. They also have a very good team. This being his last WC, I think AB will take the Saffers to atleast SF. The rest of the order would be Aussies, Pak, BD, SL, Afg, WI
Click to expand...

please dont jinx us!..
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
2019 will be the year of Asif Ali.......Mark this post (He will help us bring the Cup home in a substantial way!)
Click to expand...

He will not be the part of WC squad i guess.. i dont think he is odi material.. we have all of the odi xi spots fixed since haris comeback and inclusion of hussain talat..

Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarf
Hussain
Malik
Shadab
Faheem
Amir
Hasan
Junaid/usman

this is the best xi i think.. i dont think he'll be able to find a place in this team..
 
rhony said:
Naa. I feel it and I will standby that comment. It won't be a phainty like in CT final but the streak will be broken
Click to expand...

logically speaking, it will be kohli or nothing.. if we somehow manage to get kohli out, game will be ours.. if this happens, then streak will break otherwise india will smash us all around the park..
 
rhony said:
Woakes at 29 is at the twilight of his career? He's their best all rounder now considering Stokes isn't bowling much
Click to expand...

I was thinking of Anderson in his twilight! Confused with Tests! It happens! I am older than 29! :)
 
Excellent thread from one of my liked Indian posters which I could probably count on 3 fingers lol

It's true alot of debates will surely be ended but there will be a few who still find excuses on either side if things don't go their way. Even though I don't agree with this format because of the teams that are missing out but without a doubt this will be the marquee world cup absolutely best team will win. However there is one downside to all this, imagine if Pak India is rained off or England India or England Australia (basically the high profile competitive games) then it definitely will be a farce. Let's hope weather holds up in England.
 
Kohli said:
I have been reading a lot of threads regarding players' level and their comparison, and also about Countries.

A big stage is just over an year away.

No one can have an excuse this time saying that X team didn't play against Y team, so XYZ batsmen was able to score, or ABC bowler was able to get wickets.

In the upcoming WC, each team has to play against all remaining 9 teams.

And no minnows (apart from Afghanistan), to increase ur stats.

No team can win a TITLE by winning just 4 matches(CT). #Pakistan 2017

No one can enter the Knock out stage by just defeating poor teams/ by fluke. #Bangladesh WC 15, CT 17


Some of the debates which could end are,

Player comparison:

1.Bumrah vs Hassan vs Fizz
2.Chahal vs Shadab vs Rashid
3.Faheem vs Pandya
4.Sarfraz vs Mushfiqur
5.Smith vs Williamson vs Root

Individual players

1.Kohli a choker
2.Bhubneshwar has improved
3.Fakhar a hack
4.Tamim the 2nd best Asian opener
5.Babar the 2nd best Asian batsman
6.Dhoni will not lose games for his team
7.Amir brings his A game when the stakes are high
8.Rohit, Amir's bunny
9.Williamson in Fab 4
10. Babar scores only against WI and SL


Country comparison:

1.India vs Pakistan bowling attack
2.Bangladesh / Pakistan the 2nd best Asian side
3.Pakistan are strong enough to beat India (without a FLUKE)


Country:

1.Pakistan has improved in LOIs
2.BAN has improved in LOIs
3.Afghanistan has improved
4.England have the best batting line up



I am not being biased here. I just wrote what I can remember. You can also add further Comparisons if u wish.

Note:
1.Please don't quarrel.
2.Give ur opinion
3.Debate.
4.If the opposite person disagrees, then agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

You said: "No team can win a TITLE by winning just 4 matches(CT). #Pakistan 2017"

Pakistan team did literally the same in 1992 (if you exclude the minnows SL and Zim matches). 1992 format was same as 2019. How can that not happen again? Why is 4/8 matches winner a worthy WC champion but not 4/5 won not a worthy CT champion?
 
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great thread by a great poster.. WC 19 will surely settle all of the arguments as that will be the biggest stage.. but hope rain dont spoil all the fun.. i fear weather will not be that good in england in summer.. may be a team or two will suffer the same fate as of aus in ct17..
 
England, India and newzealand will be in the top four for sure.. the competition for the fourth spot will be between pak, aus and saff.. aus won't have warner and smith.. saffers are chokers.. em fancying the chances of pakistan to go through..
 
We will be going into WC with the following world class players.

Remember it takes 6 world class players to win the trophy.

Babar Azam
Fakhar Zaman
Sarfraz Ahmed
Imad Wasim
Shadab Khan
Mohammed Amir
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
We will be going into WC with the following world class players.

Remember it takes 6 world class players to win the trophy.

Babar Azam
Fakhar Zaman
Sarfraz Ahmed
Imad Wasim (u sure?)
Shadab Khan
Mohammed Amir
Click to expand...

add hussain talat and haris sohail too.. both are potiental match winners..
 
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Flat_Track_Bully said:
We will be going into WC with the following world class players.

Remember it takes 6 world class players to win the trophy.

Babar Azam
Fakhar Zaman
Sarfraz Ahmed
Imad Wasim
Shadab Khan
Mohammed Amir
Click to expand...


Fakhar
Babar
Hasan
Shadab
Amir

These are our world class players
 
If Pak want to win the World cup they're going to have to drop batsmen that have poor averages and SR's, before I used to disregard those stats but players like Fakhar have proved me wrong. Ever since he made his debut in the CT we literally won the cup because of him; we had Shehzad opening for us before him. In addition, I don't think it would be too hard to tweak the batting lineup a little but we should push Babar to open and his SR would improve vast amounts when he's scored a 50. The lower order looks pretty good and Malik is definitely a good option at 6 as he's in the form of his life.
 
ExplicitAI said:
If Pak want to win the World cup they're going to have to drop batsmen that have poor averages and SR's, before I used to disregard those stats but players like Fakhar have proved me wrong. Ever since he made his debut in the CT we literally won the cup because of him; we had Shehzad opening for us before him. In addition, I don't think it would be too hard to tweak the batting lineup a little but we should push Babar to open and his SR would improve vast amounts when he's scored a 50. The lower order looks pretty good and Malik is definitely a good option at 6 as he's in the form of his life.
Click to expand...

If we...
1) get rid of Hafeez and Malik
2) Have a top order of FZ, Haris, Babar
3) Talat and Asif at #’s 6 and 7.

We have an incredible chance at winning all the way.
 
ManFan said:
If we...
1) get rid of Hafeez and Malik
2) Have a top order of FZ, Haris, Babar
3) Talat and Asif at #’s 6 and 7.

We have an incredible chance at winning all the way.
Click to expand...

Talat ain’t a #6 batsman imo. He’s a more dynamic accumulator like an Eoin Morgan type batsman.
 
This innings has begun promisingly with a few calculated slogs and a few well-timed drives. 50 up already and looking good for 3 figures.
 
ManFan said:
If we...
1) get rid of Hafeez and Malik
2) Have a top order of FZ, Haris, Babar
3) Talat and Asif at #’s 6 and 7.

We have an incredible chance at winning all the way.
Click to expand...

Me personally I think Hafeez has no place in the team due to him not bowling but Malik is one of the best experienced players in the world, he should hang up his boots after the world cup and maybe the T20 World cup. He has it in him to be part of a world cup winning team.
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
We will be going into WC with the following world class players.

Remember it takes 6 world class players to win the trophy.

Babar Azam
Fakhar Zaman
Sarfraz Ahmed
Imad Wasim
Shadab Khan
Mohammed Amir
Click to expand...

Looking at ths list seems u have pretty low standard to classify someone as a world-class
 
I just remembered that the World Cup next year will be in JUNE!!! Not March!
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
We will be going into WC with the following world class players.

Remember it takes 6 world class players to win the trophy.

Babar Azam
Fakhar Zaman
Sarfraz Ahmed
Imad Wasim
Shadab Khan
Mohammed Amir
Click to expand...

I'd love to know how you define world class. Fakhar? Shadab? Sarfaraz? Imad? For me, playing consistently well for a good period across the world is one criteria that the player must satisfy. I can think of Hasan and Amir as two world class players in Pak team and Fakhar, Babar are the two potential ones.
 
nextover666666 said:
With this format of the World Cup truly the best team will win and India will get exposed they don't have the bowling attack to do well
Click to expand...

India without good bowling attack took 60 + wickets in WC'2015 IIRC, may be BCCI brought all the WC'15 wickets from Billion $ contract amount :facepalm:
 
Kashmirilion said:
Excellent thread from one of my liked Indian posters which I could probably count on 3 fingers lol

It's true alot of debates will surely be ended but there will be a few who still find excuses on either side if things don't go their way. Even though I don't agree with this format because of the teams that are missing out but without a doubt this will be the marquee world cup absolutely best team will win. However there is one downside to all this, imagine if Pak India is rained off or England India or England Australia (basically the high profile competitive games) then it definitely will be a farce. Let's hope weather holds up in England.
Click to expand...

Don't think they have reserve days for group matches ? What about Knockout games...!
 
babajee said:
1) Milestone focused... isn’t every great batsman? It’s the hunger for runs that pushes you for success.

2) He can accelerate definitely... IIRC he was on 50 off like 75 balls against Australia then got to his century off 109 balls. Also he has been working on power hitting and we have seen this in PSL

3) Actually his subdued nature is beneficial because it help him under pressure... he’s not a fiery character who will wilt when the going gets tough. Quite similar to Fakhar imo.

He’s not the best player of spin but he’s more than decent in limited overs. It’s only in test matches where he’s struggled to negotiate the likes of Herath.

The only problem in Babar’s ODI game are his slow starts. If he can fix that he will be one of the greatest Pakistani batsmen of all time.
Click to expand...

Firstly being milestone focused like how Babar is doesn't help the team, the way he slows down in his 90s and when he's nearing his hundred before reaching 90 isn't ideal for Pakistan. Yes everyone wants to score tons but not at the expense of the team winning. If you notice the way Babar celebrates excessively over his milestones ( be it a 50 or 100), it doesn't bother him if the team is in a losing position. Also note his open frustration of missing out on a hundred in the 2nd T20I (during and after the game) even though Pakistan clinched another win. This reaction paints a clear picture that not only he is a selfish batsman but also lacks the self belief of scoring a ton in T20Is against the better sides.

It's good you bring up the ton he scored in Aus because that is a perfect definition of a "match losing selfish innings" since he decided to play for himself in a 350+ run chase. The runs up to his half century were scored at a Misbah-esque rate and by then the run rate had climbed to 9-10 rpo, so his ton was useless.

If you were also to look at his career strike rate from the time he debuted it's a downward spiral - actually approaching 80 the way he's going! No world class batsman in the current era has a SR of low 80s. To go back to the last game, if you have faced that many deliveries in glorious batting conditions with small boundaries against a poor bowling attack, what excuse do you have for him only scoring 97? Forget about the likes of Kohli, AB and etc, even the likes of Dhawan, Amla and etc would have scored around 120 if they survived that many deliveries.

Also notice the difference in the first tour of NZ with the mid 90s SR + solid average to his stats in the recent tour and compare this series performances with Fakhar's.

Fakhar and Babar are very different mentally in the middle. The former is courageous and has the self belief to be able to absorb the pressure and take risks for the greater good of the team whereas the latter lets the pressure accumulate because of his lack of self belief against the better sides (Aus, SA, NZ and Eng). Bashing WI and SL doesn't make you world class it's the minimum you expect for a batsman who is world class (or working towards).

It is obvious who the best batsman is in the side and no one currently in the squad comes close atm. Babar is a just an above average ODI batsman at best - in other words somewhere between borderline international and world class standard.

Hope this enlightens you.
 
Kohli said:
I have been reading a lot of threads regarding players' level and their comparison, and also about Countries.

A big stage is just over an year away.

No one can have an excuse this time saying that X team didn't play against Y team, so XYZ batsmen was able to score, or ABC bowler was able to get wickets.

In the upcoming WC, each team has to play against all remaining 9 teams.

And no minnows (apart from Afghanistan), to increase ur stats.

No team can win a TITLE by winning just 4 matches(CT). #Pakistan 2017

No one can enter the Knock out stage by just defeating poor teams/ by fluke. #Bangladesh WC 15, CT 17


Some of the debates which could end are,

Player comparison:

1.Bumrah vs Hassan vs Fizz
2.Chahal vs Shadab vs Rashid
3.Faheem vs Pandya
4.Sarfraz vs Mushfiqur
5.Smith vs Williamson vs Root

Individual players

1.Kohli a choker
2.Bhubneshwar has improved
3.Fakhar a hack
4.Tamim the 2nd best Asian opener
5.Babar the 2nd best Asian batsman
6.Dhoni will not lose games for his team
7.Amir brings his A game when the stakes are high
8.Rohit, Amir's bunny
9.Williamson in Fab 4
10. Babar scores only against WI and SL


Country comparison:

1.India vs Pakistan bowling attack
2.Bangladesh / Pakistan the 2nd best Asian side
3.Pakistan are strong enough to beat India (without a FLUKE)


Country:

1.Pakistan has improved in LOIs
2.BAN has improved in LOIs
3.Afghanistan has improved
4.England have the best batting line up



I am not being biased here. I just wrote what I can remember. You can also add further Comparisons if u wish.

Note:
1.Please don't quarrel.
2.Give ur opinion
3.Debate.
4.If the opposite person disagrees, then agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

I see it still hurts but India only played 1 more match to win CT2013 and 3 of those matches were D/L or reduced, the final being a t20...great way to win a 50 over tournament lol

Nice troll thread too, constantly talking about flukes and stuff.

fact is, one tournament can not prove everything and it can not disprove everything, what it can do is show us (if the tournament is good enough) who are, by the law of averages, the best teams around.

As things are shaping up now, it is Engand's tournament to lose, with Pak and Ind the second best favourites and Aus always turn up for tournament so they have a shout. NZ will be competitive as always.
 
backfootpunch said:
Firstly being milestone focused like how Babar is doesn't help the team, the way he slows down in his 90s and when he's nearing his hundred before reaching 90 isn't ideal for Pakistan. Yes everyone wants to score tons but not at the expense of the team winning. If you notice the way Babar celebrates excessively over his milestones ( be it a 50 or 100), it doesn't bother him if the team is in a losing position. Also note his open frustration of missing out on a hundred in the 2nd T20I (during and after the game) even though Pakistan clinched another win. This reaction paints a clear picture that not only he is a selfish batsman but also lacks the self belief of scoring a ton in T20Is against the better sides.

It's good you bring up the ton he scored in Aus because that is a perfect definition of a "match losing selfish innings" since he decided to play for himself in a 350+ run chase. The runs up to his half century were scored at a Misbah-esque rate and by then the run rate had climbed to 9-10 rpo, so his ton was useless.

If you were also to look at his career strike rate from the time he debuted it's a downward spiral - actually approaching 80 the way he's going! No world class batsman in the current era has a SR of low 80s. To go back to the last game, if you have faced that many deliveries in glorious batting conditions with small boundaries against a poor bowling attack, what excuse do you have for him only scoring 97? Forget about the likes of Kohli, AB and etc, even the likes of Dhawan, Amla and etc would have scored around 120 if they survived that many deliveries.

Also notice the difference in the first tour of NZ with the mid 90s SR + solid average to his stats in the recent tour and compare this series performances with Fakhar's.

Fakhar and Babar are very different mentally in the middle. The former is courageous and has the self belief to be able to absorb the pressure and take risks for the greater good of the team whereas the latter lets the pressure accumulate because of his lack of self belief against the better sides (Aus, SA, NZ and Eng). Bashing WI and SL doesn't make you world class it's the minimum you expect for a batsman who is world class (or working towards).

It is obvious who the best batsman is in the side and no one currently in the squad comes close atm. Babar is a just an above average ODI batsman at best - in other words somewhere between borderline international and world class standard.

Hope this enlightens you.
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No way was he ever going to chase 350+ against that Aussie attack singlehandedly. Kohli wouldn’t either. So his innings was bound to be match losing.

Babar has only failed in one series against top teams and that was this tour of NZ. But you can’t use that to say he lacks the self belief against better sides:

If you take out his SL and WI bashing then he averages 39.40 at a strike rate of 81 which includes the worst series of his life he just had in NZ. Without that series he averages 47.70 at 85 against the top teams (Aus, NZ, SA, India, England).

He is not a minnow basher. The only problem in his approach at the moment is the amount of dot balls he consumes up front in ODIs which he does against every opposition. I think pushing him up to open will probably benefit him a lot as the majority of the time when he has come in at number 3 he has had to steady the ship due to an early wicket.
 
babajee said:
No way was he ever going to chase 350+ against that Aussie attack singlehandedly. Kohli wouldn’t either. So his innings was bound to be match losing.

Babar has only failed in one series against top teams and that was this tour of NZ. But you can’t use that to say he lacks the self belief against better sides:

If you take out his SL and WI bashing then he averages 39.40 at a strike rate of 81 which includes the worst series of his life he just had in NZ. Without that series he averages 47.70 at 85 against the top teams (Aus, NZ, SA, India, England).

He is not a minnow basher. The only problem in his approach at the moment is the amount of dot balls he consumes up front in ODIs which he does against every opposition. I think pushing him up to open will probably benefit him a lot as the majority of the time when he has come in at number 3 he has had to steady the ship due to an early wicket.
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I wouldn't write off Kohli in chasing, I don't know if you know but in all of India's 3 x 350+ successful run chases he has tons, where in 2 of these he scored the fastest ton for an Indian in ODIs (52 balls) and 115 off 66 balls. If we extend the filter slightly to 330+ successful run chases by India he has 4 tons out of these 5 matches including a 183 against Pakistan in the Asia Cup. Kohli on his day can chase 350-400.
Babar on the other hand still hasn't scored a ton in a successful run chase because he always flops when Pakistan are tasked with chasing anything over 250 let alone 350 loool! He's played enough games to establish himself now. The excuse of he's still young or still finding his feet are no longer acceptable. I don't expect him to be at his peak but I expect progress. The trend of his decreasing strike rate is enough to say he isn't progressing.

His record in Australia and England are not great - the stats of the former tour was boosted by a selfish hundred and even after his 5 ODIs his SR was 80-82. Also he's played enough games in England (10) but has yet to score a 50 with his SR is just as bad. It is clear he struggles against top teams particularly outside the SC.

Bringing him to open with Fakhar may not be a bad idea as he loves to drive the ball in the v region so he could settle into his innings more freely but if he doesn't find the gaps it will be an Shehzad-esque innings. That's the risk v reward that will come into play with this move but since there is no established partner for Fakhar I don't mind this experiment. If hypothetically the move helps Babar and therefore for Pakistan, who would you bat at 3? Would it be Talat like in T20Is atm or Haris Sohail however I don't think he is good enough for LOIs.
 
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[MENTION=143775]backfootpunch[/MENTION] I know of that statistic, however in those chases Kohli has had assistance each time. He hasn’t scored more than 50% of the teams runs.

E.g in that England game Jadhav scored 120. Against Australia, Dhawan scored a century.

These chases have all been in the subcontinent as well and the attack hasn’t been as good as Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins. IIRC Kohli averages in the 20s against Starc :))

Babar isn’t as bad as Shehzad in playing out dot balls.. :facepalm: When he’s set he’s a fluid strike rotator.
 
babajee said:
[MENTION=143775]backfootpunch[/MENTION] I know of that statistic, however in those chases Kohli has had assistance each time. He hasn’t scored more than 50% of the teams runs.

E.g in that England game Jadhav scored 120. Against Australia, Dhawan scored a century.

These chases have all been in the subcontinent as well and the attack hasn’t been as good as Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins. IIRC Kohli averages in the 20s against Starc :))

Babar isn’t as bad as Shehzad in playing out dot balls.. :facepalm: When he’s set he’s a fluid strike rotator.
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Let's be honest Kohli played the biggest hand when he scored a ton from 52 balls and the other was also at 200 SR as well (115 off 66 balls). If he was Pakistani we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Chasing 350 is tough wherever it be and to do it twice with tons at 200 SR well that's just unreal, doesn't get much better than that. Successful 350+ run chases are rare so it has to be admired whether it be in Asia or outside Asia.

As for your point with Starc that is just one bowler proves my point that I made last week that some posters on here go out of their way to slag off a player because of who they represent.

Also I never compared him to Shehzad, read again what I posted. I said if he struggles to find the gaps as an opener in the powerplay he will end up scoring a Shehzad-esque innings.
 
backfootpunch said:
Let's be honest Kohli played the biggest hand when he scored a ton from 52 balls and the other was also at 200 SR as well (115 off 66 balls). If he was Pakistani we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Chasing 350 is tough wherever it be and to do it twice with tons at 200 SR well that's just unreal, doesn't get much better than that. Successful 350+ run chases are rare so it has to be admired whether it be in Asia or outside Asia.

As for your point with Starc that is just one bowler proves my point that I made last week that some posters on here go out of their way to slag off a player because of who they represent.

Also I never compared him to Shehzad, read again what I posted. I said if he struggles to find the gaps as an opener in the powerplay he will end up scoring a Shehzad-esque innings.
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Obviously, they are sensational innings by Kohli. However chasing 350+ is a team effort and one or two players will hardly do it by themselves.

I’m not slagging off Kohli, I’m just using his example because he is the GOAT chaser.

The fact that Babar scored a 100, even if you say it is selfish, against arguably the best pace trio in the world is a testament to his quality as a batsman.

I don’t think he will struggle to find the gaps - his shots will be more likely to pierce the field imo and he can play lofted strokes.
 
backfootpunch said:
Let's be honest Kohli played the biggest hand when he scored a ton from 52 balls and the other was also at 200 SR as well (115 off 66 balls). If he was Pakistani we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Chasing 350 is tough wherever it be and to do it twice with tons at 200 SR well that's just unreal, doesn't get much better than that. Successful 350+ run chases are rare so it has to be admired whether it be in Asia or outside Asia.

As for your point with Starc that is just one bowler proves my point that I made last week that some posters on here go out of their way to slag off a player because of who they represent.

Also I never compared him to Shehzad, read again what I posted. I said if he struggles to find the gaps as an opener in the powerplay he will end up scoring a Shehzad-esque innings.
Click to expand...

Take a look at the batting stats that series, Faulkner and Bailey in particular. Should give a better picture of what was happening there
 
CW19 will start in Ramadan - if that adds anything to Pakistan's chances :)
 
shaz619 said:
I was looking forward to his response to you, but I guess the fella has gone for a quick bite :amir
Click to expand...

He responded in Post #10 - I got a notification saying so - but then he edited it away for some reason :msd :))
 
"Pakistan are strong enough to beat India (without a FLUKE)"

Biggest win in bilateral ODIs, over a sample size of over a hundred games, yet it's a fluke. Shabash ji.
 
A 180-run hammering can never be a fluke. Pakistan has a very good chance of beating India at the WC, thus breaking the streak.
 
Excellent thread idea! I hope everyone here will have the integrity to swallow their smack-talk over the next 15 months, if their predictions don't come to fruition. Conversley, people should make very carefully calculated statements.

Btw, not fair to label Afghanistan as minnows. They made the top 10 WC fair and square, and at one stage probably had only a 1% chance of qualifying. They may not be a favorite to win, but the way the Qualification system is, every team richly deserves to be here.

One could even say that teams like Scotland deserved to be here, but cruelly missed out.
 
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