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2020 Democratic Party presidential candidates [Bernie Sanders drops out Update#741]

Biden is way past his prime, but do you think the incumbent president is a living example of mental acuity and intellectual prowess ?

How about the last Republican President ? Yet Americans voted for him twice.

And what the hell does it say about the strength of the Bernie revolution if you cannot even beat a corrupt former First Lady and establishment flunkie (Hillary Clinton) and a politician whose best days are 10-20 years behind him (Joe Biden) ?

Trump hasn’t lost it though, not yet. He says some stupid things, but he’s not mentally unstable. Biden on the other hand is a lost cause. Democrats are cruel to let him continue despite clear signs of cognitive decline and illness. They really don’t want Bernie to be the nominee.

Realistically, Trump would beat Bernie too imo, but with Biden as the dem nominee, it will be a walk in the park for Trump.

I think Bernie supporters could’ve attracted more people to vote for Bernie had they not alienated and abused Warren and Yang supporters for the last couple of months. They have no one but themselves to blame for it.
 
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Trump hasn’t lost it though, not yet. He says some stupid things, but he’s not mentally unstable. Biden on the other hand is a lost cause. Democrats are cruel to let him continue despite clear signs of cognitive decline and illness. They really don’t want Bernie to be the nominee.

Realistically, Trump would beat Bernie too imo, but with Biden as the dem nominee, it will be a walk in the park for Trump.

I think Bernie supporters could’ve attracted more people to vote for Bernie had they not alienated and abused Warren and Yang supporters for the last couple of months. They have no one but themselves to blame for it.

Trump is not mentally unstable but he is delusional.. he believes in stuff which has no grounding in facts. He watches these far right tv channels and goes to their websites and really subscribed to their ridiculous conspiracy theories. You can see that with his tweets and whatnot. That’s all he does.

In my opinion, that’s far far more dangerous than being a bit flakey like Biden.
 
Trump is not mentally unstable but he is delusional.. he believes in stuff which has no grounding in facts. He watches these far right tv channels and goes to their websites and really subscribed to their ridiculous conspiracy theories. You can see that with his tweets and whatnot. That’s all he does.

In my opinion, that’s far far more dangerous than being a bit flakey like Biden.

True, Trump is delusional and dangerous, but he'll still beat Joe Biden, make no mistake about that.
 
True, Trump is delusional and dangerous, but he'll still beat Joe Biden, make no mistake about that.
I agree his chances are very bright. It is what it is. Personally Biden or trump it won’t make any difference. A Biden presidency will possibly be bad for the Dems at this point, in my opinion. The damage with trump is already done. US has gone back several years in the last four. From alienating allies to creating very strong divisions within the country, boosting and massaging the alt right to putting serious doubts on climate change, putting our very strong institutions such as the justice department, FBI, intelligence agencies in existential crises, etc..

This is the sort of stuff that can’t be undone unless we have a strong president that brings the unity back for at least the next 12 years.
 
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I don't know, looking at the numbers Biden is pulling in impressive numbers Clinton failed back in 2016.

For example, turn-out in Michigan, one of the key battle-ground states come Nov, was 2.5 times what it was in 2016 and every single county was won by Biden. This means either Hilary was extremely unpopular in 2016 or Trump is very unpopular right now, neither of which is bad for the Biden campaign. Biden also resonates with the middle-class white which will be key for the battle-ground states that despised Hilary last election.

Biden is demolishing Sanders in states he hardly campaigned or even spent money on; for example Washington, Biden and Sanders is neck and neck but Sanders spent 500k on ads versus Biden who reportedly only spent 1k. Biden is essentially running a campaign without spending much money and getting voter-turnout and exceptional numbers from a vast array of demographics. Bernie on the other hand can hardly get the youth turn-out he needs despite offering all these ideas that would benefit them the most.
 
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I agree his chances are very bright. It is what it is. Personally Biden or trump it won’t make any difference. A Biden presidency will possibly be bad for the Dems at this point, in my opinion. The damage with trump is already done. US has gone back several years in the last four. From alienating allies to creating very strong divisions within the country, boosting and massaging the alt right to putting serious doubts on climate change, putting our very strong institutions such as the justice department, FBI, intelligence agencies in existential crises, etc..

This is the sort of stuff that can’t be undone unless we have a strong president that brings the unity back for at least the next 12 years.

Also reshaping the supreme court that will be hard right for the next 40+ years.
Mitch McConnell has been able to ram chosen judges at the federal bench level at record pace.
 
40+ years how?

Can you share any links?

Not completely what you were looking for, but gives you an idea how Trump and Republicans are shaping the Judicial branch.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/12/9/20962980/trump-supreme-court-federal-judges

Reason he said 40+ yeas because federal judges are appointed for life, and average age of Trump appointed judges is less than 50 years. It's probably not 40+ years, but Trump has definitely changed the courts of America for next generation.
 
40+ years how?

Can you share any links?

Appointed for life. Gorsuch & Kavanaugh are in their 40s.
Roberts was appointed Chief Justice when he was 42 I think. That gives him 45 years on the bench unless he dies!

RBG is 86 and in ill health. The only reason she is not retiring is not to give Trump another Supreme court seat that would make the court a lot lop sided 6-3. She is hoping a dem will win the election. If that happens, she will retire ASAP. Otherwise she may have to soldier on for another 4 years!
 
Supreme Court judges are appointed for as long as they are alive, or something like that. Which is just stupid in my opinion.

The executive power cannot remove a Supreme Court Justice as long as they are active. The legislative can impeach them.

They can retire or resign any time the wish.

Only one has been impeached but he was acquitted. (Quick Google search.)
 
Not completely what you were looking for, but gives you an idea how Trump and Republicans are shaping the Judicial branch.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/12/9/20962980/trump-supreme-court-federal-judges

Reason he said 40+ yeas because federal judges are appointed for life, and average age of Trump appointed judges is less than 50 years. It's probably not 40+ years, but Trump has definitely changed the courts of America for next generation.

Thanks for posting the article. That is what I was talking about. Moscow Mitch blocked majority of Obama's federal judges. There were whole appeals court benches that were half empty for 5-6 years and now he has rammed ideologically hard right corporatist 30-40 year olds in those position. These are life appointments.
 
If Trump appoints another Justice, the SC will be conservative for the next 40+ years.
 
Yes.

These conservative SC judges can give a bigger blow to Democrats than Trump himself.

Yeah; the average guy pumping gas has no idea what it meant and why the Democrats opposed the pointing of Kavanaugh and Gorsuch so much.
 
I don't know, looking at the numbers Biden is pulling in impressive numbers Clinton failed back in 2016.

For example, turn-out in Michigan, one of the key battle-ground states come Nov, was 2.5 times what it was in 2016 and every single county was won by Biden. This means either Hilary was extremely unpopular in 2016 or Trump is very unpopular right now, neither of which is bad for the Biden campaign. Biden also resonates with the middle-class white which will be key for the battle-ground states that despised Hilary last election.

Biden is demolishing Sanders in states he hardly campaigned or even spent money on; for example Washington, Biden and Sanders is neck and neck but Sanders spent 500k on ads versus Biden who reportedly only spent 1k. Biden is essentially running a campaign without spending much money and getting voter-turnout and exceptional numbers from a vast array of demographics. Bernie on the other hand can hardly get the youth turn-out he needs despite offering all these ideas that would benefit them the most.

Michigan turnout was about 1.6 million in 2020 vs 1.2 million in 2016. So about 30-33% higher than 2016.

I think the biggest difference between 2016 and 2020 is the change in Mainstream Media. In 2016, MSM had tough questions for Hilary, but they have given a free ride to Biden. No questions in any debates about his lies on South Africa arrest, no questions about bankruptcy bill, no questions how ObamaCare will be affordable in Biden presidency. MSM is giving all the positive media time to Biden, that's why he didn't need to spend any money in most of the states. Trump and Republicans won't give him a free pass.

Look at the narrative from MSM throughout this cycle. October/November, when Bernie was struggling in polls, MSM will Bernie people vote blue no matter who? They kept asking the same question again and again, and I don't think any Bernie surrogate said they won't vote for the Democratic nominee. After Bernie won Nevada, MSM narrative Putin must be smiling in Moscow. Many Democratic elites said if Bernie is the nominee, then we don't think we can endorse/vote for him.

Bernie made a big blunder by not going after Biden earlier. Bernie will probably do that in Arizona debate, but it's too late now.
 
The trend in America used to be you settle where people of similar income to you are.

Now it is replaced by the political and social beliefs that you have.

There are two forms of communication; the mundane and complex along with the sensational and simple. The larger your audience/group, the more they will crave the latter for practical reasons.

That in a nutshell is the reason behind seemingly “idiotic” politics and it’s corresponding media today.
 
The trend in America used to be you settle where people of similar income to you are.

Now it is replaced by the political and social beliefs that you have.

There are two forms of communication; the mundane and complex along with the sensational and simple. The larger your audience/group, the more they will crave the latter for practical reasons.

That in a nutshell is the reason behind seemingly “idiotic” politics and it’s corresponding media today.

I don’t know what you mean by that, but I hardly know anyone who says “this is a conservative community so I’m going to go live there” or “they kinda look like hippies.. It should be fun in this neighborhood”

Most people that I know of look at house prices, schools, employment opportunities, as the key factors
 
I don’t know what you mean by that, but I hardly know anyone who says “this is a conservative community so I’m going to go live there” or “they kinda look like hippies.. It should be fun in this neighborhood”

Most people that I know of look at house prices, schools, employment opportunities, as the key factors

It’s not that there is one or the other.

Both might be the factors for someone looking to move but the ideology comes in when someone wants to move to a new state or location. Whereas economics might be when one wants to move within a county or state.

If it was purely economical, then Southern states have extremely low rents compared to Northern cities. Of course, there is more opportunity in the North but the different groups of people are fairly centralized in the same key locations.
 
It’s not that there is one or the other.

Both might be the factors for someone looking to move but the ideology comes in when someone wants to move to a new state or location. Whereas economics might be when one wants to move within a county or state.

If it was purely economical, then Southern states have extremely low rents compared to Northern cities. Of course, there is more opportunity in the North but the different groups of people are fairly centralized in the same key locations.

I have loved most of my life in the South, and I have no clue what gave you the idea there is more opportunity in the north. People are flocking to Texas from everywhere. Low rent, like you said and plenty of opportunities. I have been living in the north over the last 4 years or so and trust me if people here could easily move to TX or FL, they would.
 
I have loved most of my life in the South, and I have no clue what gave you the idea there is more opportunity in the north. People are flocking to Texas from everywhere. Low rent, like you said and plenty of opportunities. I have been living in the north over the last 4 years or so and trust me if people here could easily move to TX or FL, they would.
More economic opportunity across the board, not specific states. I’ve heard Fresco, Texas making the news due to being the fastest growing county and Florida is a tax-haven.

The North has ALWAYS been stronger economically because the South was a plantation/cash-crop economy while the North was industrialized which resulted in mass exoduses like the Great Migration later on. Also, why the North won because they had greater manpower and weapon production.

I got the idea from a book, “Strangers in Their Own Land”, where the author travelled and interview Southerns and their concerns to better understand the 2016 election results.
 
Michigan turnout was about 1.6 million in 2020 vs 1.2 million in 2016. So about 30-33% higher than 2016.

I think the biggest difference between 2016 and 2020 is the change in Mainstream Media. In 2016, MSM had tough questions for Hilary, but they have given a free ride to Biden. No questions in any debates about his lies on South Africa arrest, no questions about bankruptcy bill, no questions how ObamaCare will be affordable in Biden presidency. MSM is giving all the positive media time to Biden, that's why he didn't need to spend any money in most of the states. Trump and Republicans won't give him a free pass.

Look at the narrative from MSM throughout this cycle. October/November, when Bernie was struggling in polls, MSM will Bernie people vote blue no matter who? They kept asking the same question again and again, and I don't think any Bernie surrogate said they won't vote for the Democratic nominee. After Bernie won Nevada, MSM narrative Putin must be smiling in Moscow. Many Democratic elites said if Bernie is the nominee, then we don't think we can endorse/vote for him.

Bernie made a big blunder by not going after Biden earlier. Bernie will probably do that in Arizona debate, but it's too late now.

Bernie definitely under rated biden
He took Clinton far more seriously

Biden needs to be attacked for his support of subvert Islamic militants in Syria and elsewhere
Sanders doesn't seem the type to bash biden for his religious militant tendencies
 
This would make sense if Biden had a decent chance of winning.

That half insane dude has no chance.

You are reacting to my words but not seeing the reasoning behind it.

I am calling a suicide mission for what it is.

All this logic is good for forums but in an election, having dementia is a deal breaker.

As for Bernie... Didn't hillary destroy trump. In opinion polls only to get owned later on.

And are you basing this on any polling or data ? RCP average has Biden up by 6.5% vs Trump nationwide.

And before you say the polls were wrong in 2016 therefore they're worthless, Trump outperformed his national polls by only 1-2% in 2016. FiveThirtyEight infact reported they were closer to the mark than 2012. Clinton won the popular cote by 2.5m but lost the Electoral College. She lost by 77k in the three key states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

Looking at the facts does help.
 
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And are you basing this on any polling or data ? RCP average has Biden up by 6.5% vs Trump nationwide.

And before you say the polls were wrong in 2016 therefore they're worthless, Trump outperformed his national polls by only 1-2% in 2016. FiveThirtyEight infact reported they were closer to the mark than 2012. Clinton won the popular cote by 2.5m but lost the Electoral College. She lost by 77k in the three key states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

Looking at the facts does help.

She lost MI, WI by 10k votes each. She never ever set foot in those blue firewall states while campaigning and took them for granted.
BTW WI & MI both were controlled by Republican governors and there were questions of slight rigging :P
 
And are you basing this on any polling or data ? RCP average has Biden up by 6.5% vs Trump nationwide.

And before you say the polls were wrong in 2016 therefore they're worthless, Trump outperformed his national polls by only 1-2% in 2016. FiveThirtyEight infact reported they were closer to the mark than 2012. Clinton won the popular cote by 2.5m but lost the Electoral College. She lost by 77k in the three key states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

Looking at the facts does help.

Look bhai....I am not an expert on these number crunching game.

I am just looking at both the candidates and seeing their electability chances.

I have friends (living in USA) who are very involved in politics (like factual - numbers guys) and they too reckon Biden stands no chance.

It's not just them. Many many many others feel the same too.

What's the use of all these stats when you can see one candidate making an ABSOLUTE FOOL of himself even before the debates began.

As far as policy is concerned, I don't see anything great from his side too.

And watching Trump rallies....my GOODNESS...I would be concerned even if Bernie faces him...let alone this joke.

That guy is literally hitting all the right notes while making the audience roar in laughter. I admit, even I laughed. It was super entertaining.

I can't even imagine what he would do to Biden in debates.

It will be a bloodbath.

So let me get this straight:

You are saying that NUMBERS WISE, Biden will surely win.

So in your opinion, if Biden is nominated, he is AS GOOD AS having won the Presidency?

Am I understanding you correctly?
 
Not completely what you were looking for, but gives you an idea how Trump and Republicans are shaping the Judicial branch.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/12/9/20962980/trump-supreme-court-federal-judges

Reason he said 40+ yeas because federal judges are appointed for life, and average age of Trump appointed judges is less than 50 years. It's probably not 40+ years, but Trump has definitely changed the courts of America for next generation.

Appointed for life. Gorsuch & Kavanaugh are in their 40s.
Roberts was appointed Chief Justice when he was 42 I think. That gives him 45 years on the bench unless he dies!

RBG is 86 and in ill health. The only reason she is not retiring is not to give Trump another Supreme court seat that would make the court a lot lop sided 6-3. She is hoping a dem will win the election. If that happens, she will retire ASAP. Otherwise she may have to soldier on for another 4 years!

As others have already mentioned..

But somehow there has been a balance between conservative and liberal voices in the bench. That took a turn for the worse during Bush era and it continued through Obama and now Trump.

For further reading:

https://www.ourpursuit.com/why-supreme-court-nominations-have-become-so-political/

Supreme Court judges are appointed for as long as they are alive, or something like that. Which is just stupid in my opinion.

Ok thanks guys.

Will check it out.
 
Some comments from folks

Also my 67 year old baby boomer father loves Elizabeth Warren and Bernie, he likes joe but says he can’t support someone who can hardly speak coherently and who isn’t running for anything we actually believe in, just “I can win they can’t,” it’s an awful argument and republicans will use it to attack whoever the candidate is for years, **** that disingenuous standpoint.

I don't dislike Biden, Warren, or Sanders, but the chosen one **** from their supporters and this case, the candidate himself, has got to stop. Look how that turned out for Hillary in 2016 or Trump-backed candidates in the past few years.

Your arrogance blinds you

Biden is a disaster. I hope people realize that in time, because the whole Hillary 2.0 thing is a total waste of an opportunity to finally make some needed changes. Can we please just pick a candidate capable of finishing a sentence?

I’ll believe it when I see it. But have yet to meet anyone that actually supports him.

I mean literally this. I do not know where all these Biden supporters are hiding. I get that it’s anecdotal but I have yet to meet a single Biden supporter in the 3 states I’ve lived in in the last couple of years.

Plenty of Bernie and Warren supporters and the occasional Yang or Buttigieg supporter, but I have literally yet to meet a single Biden supporter or even see a single Biden bumper sticker or yard sign in 3 different states.

There's very little solid support for Biden. He's leading in the polling right now because the people being polled are supporting him because he's leading in the polling. "I want the person who has the best chance of beating Trump to win" is what they'll say, citing polls. The further he slips, the more that support house of cards crumbles. All he has offered so far is "I'm the guy who can beat Trump", even though in the general election polls, several candidates are also beating Trump, and the difference between him and his rivals is usually only a few points in his favor, not a blowout.

If Biden gets the nomination, I have a feeling there might be 4 more years of Trump if we don't impeach him first. Biden represents the status quo of Democrats, like Hillary, that got us to this point. I want a progressive Democrat like Warren, who can appeal to more moderates, unlike Sanders.

I think saying Biden is Clinton 2.0 is really lame and frankly isnt even accurate.

There at least 11 reasons dems lost in 2016, only one of those is bc the candidate was bad. I dont think it's fair to just be like "its hillarys fault for 2016 and Biden is Hillary 2.0.

Polling likely voters only in this election climate is completely asinine, and is exactly what got us Trump in the first place, through engendering complacency.

Taken from a neutral source. Or so it looks.

Barring one comment that states we can't equate Biden with Hillary 2.0...NONE support Biden.

Of course, not a proper representation or sample set but this is how I am seeing people talk about Biden generally.
 
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Trump hasn’t lost it though, not yet. He says some stupid things, but he’s not mentally unstable.
A guy who repeatedly tweets that he is "a very stable genius", comes up with juvenile playground nicknames for his opponents, continually self-aggrandises, thinks raking the leaves will prevent wildfires, claims he has better approval ratings than Abe Lincoln (there were no opinion polls during the Civil War last time I checked), claims the Great Lakes have "record deepness" and is generally a pathological liar even about easily refutable matters would count as being mentally unstable wouldn't you say ?

Biden on the other hand is a lost cause. Democrats are cruel to let him continue despite clear signs of cognitive decline and illness. They really don’t want Bernie to be the nominee.
Biden is a ***** who has been wrong on 70% of major issues in my lifetime, and for years has been a bagman for the credit card industry in Delaware. I'm not defending him and would prefer Bernie in a heartbeat. But despite all those flaws Biden is busting Bernie up in nearly every demographic, including crucially over 45s who vote at higher rates than the armchair youth revolutionaries. If the Berniecrat left is serious about winning a national election, they must for once do some introspection and figure why they failed to expand their base instead of blaming DNC, Mossad, CIA, Joe Bloggs etc.

Realistically, Trump would beat Bernie too imo, but with Biden as the dem nominee, it will be a walk in the park for Trump.
So how does that work ? Bernie is getting hammered by mentally deficient Biden in almost every demographic amongst voters of his own party, lost every county of Michigan to Biden despite winning Michigan in 2016, trails Biden amongst older black voters despite Biden's role in the 1994 Crime Bill, youth turnout is either flat or down despite Bernie's overwhelming popularity amongst U25s, and has a smaller lead over Trump than Biden's in the battleground states.

Biden also leads Sanders among swing voters, i.e. the voters who voted Democratic in the 2018 midterm after voting for Trump in 2016. And among swing voters, Biden leads Trump by 12% while Sanders leads Trump by 4%.

But Bernie would be harder to beat and has fewer electability problems ? Right then.

And I agree that Trump still has a strong chance of reelection. I've little faith in Americans doing the right thing in November regardless of who the Dem nominee is - after all they reelected Bush jnr at the height of the Iraq War.

I think Bernie supporters could’ve attracted more people to vote for Bernie had they not alienated and abused Warren and Yang supporters for the last couple of months. They have no one but themselves to blame for it.
Agreed. Turns out screaming corporate shill and Republican-lite at anyone in your party coalition you disagree with you ain't a great strategic move when trying to win a primary.
 
A guy who repeatedly tweets that he is "a very stable genius", comes up with juvenile playground nicknames for his opponents,

Just wanted to point out this part of the post..

You do realize this is one of Trump's greatest strengths right?

This helps him engineer a perception of his opponent in the minds of people.

It's brilliant campaigning.

Unethical? Probably.

But very effective.

This is what is the issue I feel.

The world has moved on. If you wanna beat an enemy, you have to understand their game. No point saying they are doing XYZ when that is what is actually helping them.

Sleepy joe is a PURE campaigning genius.

So simple. Yet so effective in carving up Biden.
 
Just wanted to point out this part of the post..

You do realize this is one of Trump's greatest strengths right?

This helps him engineer a perception of his opponent in the minds of people.

It's brilliant campaigning.

Unethical? Probably.

But very effective.

This is what is the issue I feel.

The world has moved on. If you wanna beat an enemy, you have to understand their game. No point saying they are doing XYZ when that is what is actually helping them.

Sleepy joe is a PURE campaigning genius.

So simple. Yet so effective in carving up Biden.
I think you have this whole thing wrong. He is not helping engineer any perception here. People are not stupid. But they do like good television. That’s all Trump is. He is the shock value, the shock factor .. the “ooh I don’t believe he said that..” factor.

Hope you get the point. Before him, politics in America was based on civility. There was no such name calling or abusing or bullying or flat out lying.

Then along comes trump knowing how to get tv ratings, and he starts using the jerry springer style approach to campaigning and discovered that a vast majority of Americans love it.. because a vast majority is white, uneducated, day time TV watching denomination. It doesn’t matter you put Jesus on the stand and trump have a go at him, they would love it, because he is “not politically correct”
They wouldn’t know what politically correct is even if it but them in their aey ess ess..

So to summarize

1. I don’t think it’s creating any perception. Because the people he does this for, love to hate everyone

2. It’s just a show, and he happens to by chance find the demographic that works for him and loves him.


If he was so smart, we won’t see so many gaffe’s from him. He is the one who kept asking the guy who was debriefing him on his options on Syria “so we can nuke em, right”

Come on, man... you guys give him far too much credit. He is a blithering idiot!
 
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Just wanted to point out this part of the post..

You do realize this is one of Trump's greatest strengths right?

This helps him engineer a perception of his opponent in the minds of people.

It's brilliant campaigning.

Unethical? Probably.

But very effective.

This is what is the issue I feel.

The world has moved on. If you wanna beat an enemy, you have to understand their game. No point saying they are doing XYZ when that is what is actually helping them.

Sleepy joe is a PURE campaigning genius.

So simple. Yet so effective in carving up Biden.

Pocahontas for Warren.

He is not called Teflon Don for nothing. Obama was excoriated by the right wing media (Fox news) for wearing a tan suit! They called it as degrading the office of the presidency :rolleyes
While cheeto can keep on saying blatant lies and juvenile comebacks and all is good. This is the new normal.
 
See that’s my point.. he has a name for everyone.. Republicans and democrats all of them. So these people love it when he roasts them like that.

Lying ted cruz
Crooked Hilary
Sleepy joe
12 crazy democrats (mueller’ s team)
Pocahontas
Etc, etc, etc.

And people who tune into judge Judy or Maury lap it all up.. it’s a shame these people’s eyes been hijacked into voting for the d.ou.che.
 
I think you have this whole thing wrong. He is not helping engineer any perception here. People are not stupid. But they do like good television. That’s all Trump is. He is the shock value, the shock factor .. the “ooh I don’t believe he said that..” factor.

Hope you get the point. Before him, politics in America was based on civility. There was no such name calling or abusing or bullying or flat out lying.

Then along comes trump knowing how to get tv ratings, and he starts using the jerry springer style approach to campaigning and discovered that a vast majority of Americans love it.. because a vast majority is white, uneducated, day time TV watching denomination. It doesn’t matter you put Jesus on the stand and trump have a go at him, they would love it, because he is “not politically correct”
They wouldn’t know what politically correct is even if it but them in their aey ess ess..

So to summarize

1. I don’t think it’s creating any perception. Because the people he does this for, love to hate everyone

2. It’s just a show, and he happens to by chance find the demographic that works for him and loves him.


If he was so smart, we won’t see so many gaffe’s from him. He is the one who kept asking the guy who was debriefing him on his options on Syria “so we can nuke em, right”

Come on, man... you guys give him far too much credit. He is a blithering idiot!

A few point:

1. You are saying the same of what i am saying. Just in a different way. It's all persuasion.

2. Engineering a perception doesn't mean he is showing Biden as someone whom he is not. He is just taking the TRAITS of Biden and creating a narrative out of it. That's engineering a perception.

3. Yes, its all a reality show. Trump knows that.

4. Yes American politics was based on civility. This guy changed it all.

5. As a guy who makes his living persuading people, I can see a master persuader when I see one. His style is unconventional but make no mistake, he is a master of his craft. People in my industry who have been personally responsible for $100s of million to billions in sales acknowledge the persuasion skills of Trump. So no he is not a blithering idiot in every sense. :)
 
See that’s my point.. he has a name for everyone.. Republicans and democrats all of them. So these people love it when he roasts them like that.

Lying ted cruz
Crooked Hilary
Sleepy joe
12 crazy democrats (mueller’ s team)
Pocahontas
Etc, etc, etc.

And people who tune into judge Judy or Maury lap it all up.. it’s a shame these people’s eyes been hijacked into voting for the d.ou.che.

It's a shame but it works.

Wake up and smell the coffee bro.

It works.

Acknowledgement is the first step to fighting this guy.

Crooked Hillary was a HUGE hit.
 
A few point:

1. You are saying the same of what i am saying. Just in a different way. It's all persuasion.

2. Engineering a perception doesn't mean he is showing Biden as someone whom he is not. He is just taking the TRAITS of Biden and creating a narrative out of it. That's engineering a perception.

3. Yes, its all a reality show. Trump knows that.

4. Yes American politics was based on civility. This guy changed it all.

5. As a guy who makes his living persuading people, I can see a master persuader when I see one. His style is unconventional but make no mistake, he is a master of his craft. People in my industry who have been personally responsible for $100s of million to billions in sales acknowledge the persuasion skills of Trump. So no he is not a blithering idiot in every sense. :)

But there is a difference. You are saying he actually convinces people with these names. What I am saying is no that’s not the case. It’s very rare that people will believe what he is saying about his opponents just because he uses comical hand gestures with a smug wry smile on his face when he calls them these names. I would say less than 10% of his base actually buy into it..

But they DO love when he does it.. because it’s so “naughty” .. you know what I mean?
 
But there is a difference. You are saying he actually convinces people with these names. What I am saying is no that’s not the case. It’s very rare that people will believe what he is saying about his opponents just because he uses comical hand gestures with a smug wry smile on his face when he calls them these names. I would say less than 10% of his base actually buy into it..

But they DO love when he does it.. because it’s so “naughty” .. you know what I mean?

Not sure what you mean by convincing here...but the thing is trump is using certain traits of others to create a narrative which is then used to convince his audience what he wants them to believe.

This is nothing new.

It's used in Indian politics too.

Prashant Kishor heavily used "Pappu" to destroy Rahul Gandhi in 2014.

He again used "Rinkiya Ke Pappa" to destroy BJP CM candidate in Delhi last month.

Google that term. They had videos where they just addressed Manoj Tiwari (CM candidate) as Rinkiya Ke Papa to mock him & devalue him as a serious CM candidate and it worked.
 
Naming by itself is not the be all and end all.

But it could be a DEADLY weapon.

Rahul Gandhi too tried "Chowkidar Chor Hai" in 2019 and it backfired. :))
 
It's a shame but it works.

Wake up and smell the coffee bro.

It works.

Acknowledgement is the first step to fighting this guy.

Crooked Hillary was a HUGE hit.

I think you have it ALL wrong here. It is working because of the shock factor and it’s not working for Dems because they are trying to beat him kind of using his tactics and they won’t work. You can’t start derailing everything he does and believe that will help the Dems, NO!

And I refuse to believe this country has stooped to such a level that circus tactics will decide the future.

I am acknowledging what’s working for him, and why.. and I am acknowledging the Dems are failing against him and why.. I can also tell you what would be the right approach. It’s the one adopted by Bernie. You rarely heard him name calling. He has an agenda.. what you need is a strong agenda.. something tangible you can sell the American people. Make them believe you have the better alternative to what trump is selling you. Then stand by it.. the tactics of opposition for the sake of opposition won’t work. I think American people can see through that schtik now.

I think that’s why Biden will fail. And that is why Hilary failed. Bernie would have been good but this country is not ready for his ideas yet.. somehow if you call yourself a socialist or even believe in it a bit, the Establishment will come after you and bury you. And that goes for both republican and Democrat establishment.. the paid for political powers that be. You see them trying to bury AOC all the time. Neither Pelosi, nor Trump likes him.

See we will get some of the same no matter what.. there is paper thin difference.. Bernie failed to sell his message but I truly believe he had the right idea on principle alone.. he is anti establishment like trump but he has ethics and morals.
 
I think you have it ALL wrong here. It is working because of the shock factor and it’s not working for Dems because they are trying to beat him kind of using his tactics and they won’t work. You can’t start derailing everything he does and believe that will help the Dems, NO!

And I refuse to believe this country has stooped to such a level that circus tactics will decide the future.

I am acknowledging what’s working for him, and why.. and I am acknowledging the Dems are failing against him and why.. I can also tell you what would be the right approach. It’s the one adopted by Bernie. You rarely heard him name calling. He has an agenda.. what you need is a strong agenda.. something tangible you can sell the American people. Make them believe you have the better alternative to what trump is selling you. Then stand by it.. the tactics of opposition for the sake of opposition won’t work. I think American people can see through that schtik now.

I think that’s why Biden will fail. And that is why Hilary failed. Bernie would have been good but this country is not ready for his ideas yet.. somehow if you call yourself a socialist or even believe in it a bit, the Establishment will come after you and bury you. And that goes for both republican and Democrat establishment.. the paid for political powers that be. You see them trying to bury AOC all the time. Neither Pelosi, nor Trump likes him.

See we will get some of the same no matter what.. there is paper thin difference.. Bernie failed to sell his message but I truly believe he had the right idea on principle alone.. he is anti establishment like trump but he has ethics and morals.

First of all, COMPLETELY AGREE with you.

Second of all, you seem to have misunderstood me.

Read #678 and #679 for more clarity.

----

Naming cannot win you elections on its own. But it can be a powerful tool to further your agenda.

Trump is a master at creating narrative.
 
First of all, COMPLETELY AGREE with you.

Second of all, you seem to have misunderstood me.

Read #678 and #679 for more clarity.

----

Naming cannot win you elections on its own. But it can be a powerful tool to further your agenda.

Trump is a master at creating narrative.

Ok.. so we agree .. good.
So we agree his name calling is working for him. Fine.

So what do you suggest to combat it? Like you said the first step is acknowledgment and we did that.

The second step is either you do some of the same he does and try to beat him at his own game or you come up with your own strategy. I think we both agree you can’t beat him at his own game.

So what do you do?
 
Ok.. so we agree .. good.
So we agree his name calling is working for him. Fine.

So what do you suggest to combat it? Like you said the first step is acknowledgment and we did that.

The second step is either you do some of the same he does and try to beat him at his own game or you come up with your own strategy. I think we both agree you can’t beat him at his own game.

So what do you do?

Yeah....doing what he does can work if you have the skills to pull it off.

But neither Biden or Bernie can.

So focusing on Trump's screw ups will be safer ground.

A nice touch would be to invalidate Trump's name calling.

For example, Trump calls Bernie as Crazy Bernie.

Bernie could list out all the things Trump promised and failed to do and then end it by saying well you will call me crazy cos I am exposing all your lies and hypocrisy.

Keep doing it for every issue one by one in a debate and end it with the same repetition. I am crazy cos I won't let you get away with this.

People love names. They also love repetition. So it kinda will stick in their minds.

I am searching for a 5 minutes video where Bernie DESTROYS Trump by talking about his lies. I just can't find it. I will try to get it.

---

With all being said, one weakness I find in Dems is that they can get riled up easily. Esp Bernie. When Bloomberg asked Bernie about his 3 homes, the latter got a bit flustered. Trump won't let such opportunities pass. He would LOVE to drag the debate down to the mudsliging level and beat the opponent.

Dunno what Biden is going to do man against Trump (Bernie is all hypotheticals now...Biden is a reality). I don't even understand what the hell he is blabbering these days. His speech is hard to follow. :))

Trump will mock that and end the debate before it even starts I am afraid.
 
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Yeah....doing what he does can work if you have the skills to pull it off.

But neither Biden or Bernie can.

So focusing on Trump's screw ups will be safer ground.

A nice touch would be to invalidate Trump's name calling.

For example, Trump calls Bernie as Crazy Bernie.

Bernie could list out all the things Trump promised and failed to do and then end it by saying well you will call me crazy cos I am exposing all your lies and hypocrisy.

Keep doing it for every issue one by one in a debate and end it with the same repetition. I am crazy cos I won't let you get away with this.

People love names. They also love repetition. So it kinda will stick in their minds.

I am searching for the 5 minutes where Bernie DESTROY Trump by talking about his lies. I just can't find it. I will try to get it.

---

With all being said, one weakness I find in Dems is that they can get riled up easily. Esp Bernie. When Bloomberg asked Bernie about his 3 homes, the latter got a bit flustered. Trump won't let such opportunities pass. He would LOVE to drag the debate down to the mudsliging level and beat the opponent.

Dunno what Biden is going to do man against Trump (Bernie is all hypotheticals now...Biden is a reality). I don't even understand what the hell he is blabbering these days. His speech is hard to follow. :))

Trump will mock that and end the debate before it even starts I am afraid.

You nailed it.

Trump is really good when it comes to psychological battles. This is where Democrats need to step up.
 
Yeah....doing what he does can work if you have the skills to pull it off.

But neither Biden or Bernie can.

So focusing on Trump's screw ups will be safer ground.

A nice touch would be to invalidate Trump's name calling.

For example, Trump calls Bernie as Crazy Bernie.

Bernie could list out all the things Trump promised and failed to do and then end it by saying well you will call me crazy cos I am exposing all your lies and hypocrisy.

Keep doing it for every issue one by one in a debate and end it with the same repetition. I am crazy cos I won't let you get away with this.

People love names. They also love repetition. So it kinda will stick in their minds.

I am searching for a 5 minutes video where Bernie DESTROYS Trump by talking about his lies. I just can't find it. I will try to get it.

---

With all being said, one weakness I find in Dems is that they can get riled up easily. Esp Bernie. When Bloomberg asked Bernie about his 3 homes, the latter got a bit flustered. Trump won't let such opportunities pass. He would LOVE to drag the debate down to the mudsliging level and beat the opponent.

Dunno what Biden is going to do man against Trump (Bernie is all hypotheticals now...Biden is a reality). I don't even understand what the hell he is blabbering these days. His speech is hard to follow. :))

Trump will mock that and end the debate before it even starts I am afraid.

So on one hand you say trump loves to drag the debate down to the mud and then you suggest the same for Dems. I think it is basically playing into his comfort zone. The best I could filter from your post is identifying Trump’s lies and Unkept promises but that is also “talking about him”

I think the best strategy is to focus on the real issues, say something tangible that people will relate to, remember and is important to them. You can talk jobs, economy, healthcare, your idea of how to handle the gun debate, foreign policy (that’s where trump is a dunce and you can easily expose him) and then in addition talk about trump’s lies and promises..

And I think that’s exactly what Bernie has been doing.. exactly that! And yet he is failing!

Why? I just believe it’s the dirty Dem establishment.. all the other candidates dropped out and endorsed Biden. And that is why I am not hoping for a miracle at all. I want trump to win now. Let him get another four years.. he WILL crash and burn.. his hubris, ego and smugness will result in his downfall.
 
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And I think that’s exactly what Bernie has been doing.. exactly that! And yet he is failing!

Why? I just believe it’s the dirty Dem establishment.. all the other candidates dropped out and endorsed Biden

Couldn't agree more with this.

Sunday night will probably be make or break for Biden to win some, if not all, Sanders' voters for November. Bernie has given him a cheat sheet of what's coming at him, now Biden must be 100% prepared to answer questions without any gaffes. If Biden falls flat, then I can see Trump getting four more years in White House.

I want trump to win now. Let him get another four years.. he WILL crash and burn.. his hubris, ego and smugness will result in his downfall.

If Biden wins the general election, the establishment will get all the credit for it. If Biden loses in November, then Bernie and his supporters will get all the blame for the loss.
 
So on one hand you say trump loves to drag the debate down to the mud and then you suggest the same for Dems. I think it is basically playing into his comfort zone. The best I could filter from your post is identifying Trump’s lies and Unkept promises but that is also “talking about him”

Talking about trump lies (pertaining to policies) and policy failures is talking about real issues.

You haven't seen that 5 min video. I will get you. Bernie can trap trump with no way to escape.

I then mentioned about adding a "nice touch" after you present your points.
 
I think the best strategy is to focus on the real issues, ... foreign policy (that’s where trump is a dunce and you can easily expose him)

Trump is a dunce when it comes to foreign policy?

Bush started 2 wars, Afghanistan and Iraq. The Afghanistan war had justification, but Iraq was based on lies.

Obama was part of the group that started 4 wars, Syria, Ukraine, Libya and Yemen. No justification for any one of them.

Trump has started 0 wars, and he is the dunce?

Trump has threatened NATO allies with the objective of getting them to spend 2% of their GDP on defense as they said they would but didn't follow through. The mainstream media screams that he is therefore undermining alliances.

North Korea is a problem that has festered for 30 years. It would have been much easier to solve 20 years ago when it didn't have nukes and missiles. Trump however has come close developing a relationship with its leader, something that no previous President did. The basic issue is that Kim needs guarantees that he will not be overthrown, and he is much more likely to follow through on agreements if he has a relationship.

As for Iran, it was obvious that Obama's agreement was only going to delay and not stop Iran for getting nukes. No easy solutions there, at least Trump hasn't bombed them as the neocons (who were influential in Bush and Obama administrations) would like him to.
 
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Trump is a dunce when it comes to foreign policy?

Bush started 2 wars, Afghanistan and Iraq. The Afghanistan war had justification, but Iraq was based on lies.

Obama was part of the group that started 4 wars, Syria, Ukraine, Libya and Yemen. No justification for any one of them.

Trump has started 0 wars, and he is the dunce?

Trump has threatened NATO allies with the objective of getting them to spend 2% of their GDP on defense as they said they would but didn't follow through. The mainstream media screams that he is therefore undermining alliances.

North Korea is a problem that has festered for 30 years. It would have been much easier to solve 20 years ago when it didn't have nukes and missiles. Trump however has come close developing a relationship with its leader, something that no previous President did. The basic issue is that Kim needs guarantees that he will not be overthrown, and he is much more likely to follow through on agreements if he has a relationship.

As for Iran, it was obvious that Obama's agreement was only going to delay and not stop Iran for getting nukes. No easy solutions there, at least Trump hasn't bombed them as the neocons (who were influential in Bush and Obama administrations) would like him to.

How deluded can one be to think that Trump isn’t a hawk like George Bush and Obama. You do know that drone strikes have increased after Trump became president, right?
 
Trump is a dunce when it comes to foreign policy?

Bush started 2 wars, Afghanistan and Iraq. The Afghanistan war had justification, but Iraq was based on lies.

Obama was part of the group that started 4 wars, Syria, Ukraine, Libya and Yemen. No justification for any one of them.

Trump has started 0 wars, and he is the dunce?

Trump has threatened NATO allies with the objective of getting them to spend 2% of their GDP on defense as they said they would but didn't follow through. The mainstream media screams that he is therefore undermining alliances.

North Korea is a problem that has festered for 30 years. It would have been much easier to solve 20 years ago when it didn't have nukes and missiles. Trump however has come close developing a relationship with its leader, something that no previous President did. The basic issue is that Kim needs guarantees that he will not be overthrown, and he is much more likely to follow through on agreements if he has a relationship.

As for Iran, it was obvious that Obama's agreement was only going to delay and not stop Iran for getting nukes. No easy solutions there, at least Trump hasn't bombed them as the neocons (who were influential in Bush and Obama administrations) would like him to.

Trump has not done anybody any favors .. he has completely alienated us on the international stage. You can see how he is ridiculed by foreign leaders. Nobody likes him because of his child like mentality. You can claim what you want, clothing at straws with the NATO allies spending more, blah blah blah, when mostly NATO is engaged in wars US started! Lol

It is a ridiculous notion.
On the trade front as well, he thinks he has won us a big favor with all the crap surrounding NAFTA, but it’s all smoke and mirrors.

He is being controlled by his son in law to make matters worse in ME with the israel/Palestine situation and seems to be towing the line of Putin most of the time. US was always a world leader at the international stage but now we have basically pulled back from all major issues. We don’t want anything to do with environment protection and we seem to be more interested in kissing dictator phichwarey.. whether it’s Kim’s, Putin’s, or Saudi Royal family’s.

You have to be seriously delusional to think Trump is a foreign policy expert!
 
How deluded can one be to think that Trump isn’t a hawk like George Bush and Obama. You do know that drone strikes have increased after Trump became president, right?

Drone strike casualties are nothing compared to total war casualties. Wars started by Bush have killed over half a million, those by Obama have killed another half a million. How many people have been killed by Trump's drone strikes?

Also, the drone strikes are continuations of wars started by previous Presidents. Trump is simply choosing to continue those wars when he can't end them by means of drones rather than other means.

The point is Trump has got the US out of Syria, and has a plan to get them out of Afghanistan. So Trump's tally for starting wars is -2, for Bush it is +2, and for Obama it is +4.
 
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Bernie Sanders: I Think Biden Can Beat Trump, But I Have The "Stronger" Campaign To Do That

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...ut_were_the_stronger_campaign_to_do_that.html

He is in the brink of LOSING a chance to implement what he stood for his whole life....and yet he doesn't attack Biden and call a spade a spade.

Just cos Dems have a chance to stop Trump.

Whattay guy. :bow:

MORONS will never realize the greatness of this man.
 
Bernie Sanders: I Think Biden Can Beat Trump, But I Have The "Stronger" Campaign To Do That

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...ut_were_the_stronger_campaign_to_do_that.html

He is in the brink of LOSING a chance to implement what he stood for his whole life....and yet he doesn't attack Biden and call a spade a spade.

Just cos Dems have a chance to stop Trump.

Whattay guy. :bow:

MORONS will never realize the greatness of this man.

Corbyn and Sanders are the last two Progressive leaders of developed world, don’t think we will ever have any more after seeing their fate.
 
Corbyn and Sanders are the last two Progressive leaders of developed world, don’t think we will ever have any more after seeing their fate.

They have sown the seeds of revolution.

We won WC 2011 under Dhoni.

But the journey started in 2000 under Ganguly.

Bernie will go down in history books while Trump will be forgotten or mocked. :)
 
They have sown the seeds of revolution.

We won WC 2011 under Dhoni.

But the journey started in 2000 under Ganguly.

Bernie will go down in history books while Trump will be forgotten or mocked. :)

Jimmy Carter is mocked ,Ronald Regan is revered.

Churchil is revered no one even remembers the last truly liberal PM of England.

Only country where Liberal PMs are revered is Canada, luckily they have a bunch of them.

I think Liberals should let conservatives have the politicians and focus on society and judges, we need them to be Liberal.
 
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Corbyn and Sanders are the last two Progressive leaders of developed world, don’t think we will ever have any more after seeing their fate.

Idk about the UK or the rest of the world but the progressive movement in America has grown exponentially since 2016, we have many young up and coming leaders - demographics are changing both in terms of ethnicity and age of eligible voters. Canada is already headed by a pretty decent 'progressive' leader and jagmeet and the NDP have always been progressive, of course his pro-Khaalistan views may be why you don't like him however his agenda for national pharmacare in Canada was on of the most progressive policy proposals they've seen in awhile.

Btw Sanders is only progressive by American standards, by Scandinavian/northern European standards being "progressive" is the default - they already have universal healthcare, paid sick leave, paternity leave, free college, welfare programs etc Even more "conservative" countries like th UK, Japan, Australia, and South Korea already have what Sanders is advocating for.
 
Jimmy Carter is mocked ,Ronald Regan is revered.

Churchil is revered no one even remembers the last truly liberal PM of England.

Only country where Liberal PMs are revered is Canada, luckily they have a bunch of them.

I think Liberals should let conservatives have the politicians and focus on society and judges, we need them to be Liberal.

Actually Carter is now revered, he's grown on people and seen as a humble down-to-earth grandfather type of figure. People widely believe he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and Reagan's treasonous dealing with Iran led to Carter losing the election.
 
Actually Carter is now revered, he's grown on people and seen as a humble down-to-earth grandfather type of figure. People widely believe he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and Reagan's treasonous dealing with Iran led to Carter losing the election.
Not really.

Carter is seen as being weak, having undertaken the hostage crisis and anti-Shah movement (not “Iranian revolution”) during his one term.

As soon as Reagan was elected, Iran began holding negotiations because they saw he was much more hardline.

Reagan developed the Republican image after his wife saw that he was going nowhere as a Democrat. He’s seen as the Godfather of the modern-day Republican Party.

Carter is seen as a grandpa because he’s the oldest surviving president to date.
 
Actually Carter is now revered, he's grown on people and seen as a humble down-to-earth grandfather type of figure. People widely believe he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and Reagan's treasonous dealing with Iran led to Carter losing the election.

You need to come out of your circle and meet more people esp older and middle aged ones, you would be shocked.
Chicago atleast had somewhat Liberal views , Texas does not politically.

Not saying they are bad or something but are conservative views esp wrt politics.
 
Idk about the UK or the rest of the world but the progressive movement in America has grown exponentially since 2016, we have many young up and coming leaders - demographics are changing both in terms of ethnicity and age of eligible voters. Canada is already headed by a pretty decent 'progressive' leader and jagmeet and the NDP have always been progressive, of course his pro-Khaalistan views may be why you don't like him however his agenda for national pharmacare in Canada was on of the most progressive policy proposals they've seen in awhile.

Btw Sanders is only progressive by American standards, by Scandinavian/northern European standards being "progressive" is the default - they already have universal healthcare, paid sick leave, paternity leave, free college, welfare programs etc Even more "conservative" countries like th UK, Japan, Australia, and South Korea already have what Sanders is advocating for.

Pro Khalistani doesn’t mean you don’t condemn the bomber which killed Canadian citizens.

Irrespective I already said Canada is the only place where Liberal leaders are revered also I respect Tom Muclair, have nothing against NDP.
 
Not really.

Carter is seen as being weak, having undertaken the hostage crisis and anti-Shah movement (not “Iranian revolution”) during his one term.

As soon as Reagan was elected, Iran began holding negotiations because they saw he was much more hardline.

Reagan developed the Republican image after his wife saw that he was going nowhere as a Democrat. He’s seen as the Godfather of the modern-day Republican Party.

Carter is seen as a grandpa because he’s the oldest surviving president to date.

Carter's approval has gone up now
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2300

Also I'm not talking about Reagan negotiating with Iran while President, in case you didn't know Reagan was holding back channel meetings with Iran while he was running for President, he promised Iran a better deal than what Carter offered if they waited until he got elected! He bypassed the President of the country, that is treason. He told iran to only deal with him and delayed the release of US hostages, you do not that. That's worse than Trump's collusion with Russia, he undermined America's sovereignty and the President's office. Should've been impeached for that.
 
Carter's approval has gone up now
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2300

Also I'm not talking about Reagan negotiating with Iran while President, in case you didn't know Reagan was holding back channel meetings with Iran while he was running for President, he promised Iran a better deal than what Carter offered if they waited until he got elected! He bypassed the President of the country, that is treason. He told iran to only deal with him and delayed the release of US hostages, you do not that. That's worse than Trump's collusion with Russia, he undermined America's sovereignty and the President's office. Should've been impeached for that.

Carter’s approval rating has gone up now, 50 years after his tenure as president. With time, memories become crystallized. I remember Bush being thought of an idiot and with Trump now, he would be welcomed back by the same people.

Reagan was wrong for doing that but the Iranians ousted him later on with the bombing of the barracks and Iran-Contra affair. All’s well that ends well.

But Reagan is esteemed by Republicans and conservatives everywhere and came just before the religious evangelicals took over completely.
 
Jimmy Carter is mocked ,Ronald Regan is revered.

Churchil is revered no one even remembers the last truly liberal PM of England.

Only country where Liberal PMs are revered is Canada, luckily they have a bunch of them.

I think Liberals should let conservatives have the politicians and focus on society and judges, we need them to be Liberal.

It's not about liberal vs conservative.

It's about what you stand for and what you did viz a viz the external environment you were in.

Dunno much about the guys you posted.

But take a look at India.

1. Manmohan Singh was mocked in 2014. Modi was considered a rockstar. A mere 6 years later, see how things changed. Imagine 50 years from now. It will be a bloodbath. :))

2. Another example. Atal Behari Vajpayee lost his PM in 2004. Yet the history will remember him very very very differently. Already does.

3. Same goes for Narasimha Rao. Congress may not revere him but he (along with Manmohan Singh) changed the trajectory of India FOREVER.
 
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I think the conservative vs liberal debate is ridiculous. Most of the time people want moderation from both sides and that Brings them both pretty much to the center. Very few times has it gone extreme, trump being the exception.

But you have to admit the modern day generation is far more liberal.. in the next 20 years, LGBTQ rights will be touted by both parties alike. So the goal posts keep changing and because of that you may think conservatives are more popular and are revered more but it’s also because their dated thinking keeps changing with time.. the only thing in the US they manage to hold on to and do not allow to change is gun control.

But overall look at how most states are now.. marijuana is legalized, gay marriages are legalized and so on.. liberalism is really winning slowly but surely..
 
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Yeah...the whole left - centre - right scale keeps moving.

A liberal by today's standards might be a conservative 50 years from now.
 
Yeah...the whole left - centre - right scale keeps moving.

A liberal by today's standards might be a conservative 50 years from now.

And vice versa.. in the 50s/60s conservative southerners were mostly pro segregation but now everybody claims they were in favor of the civil rights movement.

The democrat party is the oldest party in the nation and started as a Conservative party but now they have shifted totally. GOP actually had some liberal leanings at first but now they are conservative..

It’s fascinating really. Reminds me how my history professor in Texas years ago used to tell us that it is crucial we don’t lose sight of what has happened in the past and what were the root causes of certain human behaviors and events... rather than just memorizing dates and events. He promised us he would never ask us a question about “at what date did such and such happen...” he was more interested in us understanding critical events and their correlation with society and changing times..
now I see he was right!
 
And vice versa.. in the 50s/60s conservative southerners were mostly pro segregation but now everybody claims they were in favor of the civil rights movement.

The democrat party is the oldest party in the nation and started as a Conservative party but now they have shifted totally. GOP actually had some liberal leanings at first but now they are conservative..

It’s fascinating really. Reminds me how my history professor in Texas years ago used to tell us that it is crucial we don’t lose sight of what has happened in the past and what were the root causes of certain human behaviors and events... rather than just memorizing dates and events. He promised us he would never ask us a question about “at what date did such and such happen...” he was more interested in us understanding critical events and their correlation with society and changing times..
now I see he was right!

Interesting stuff. Haha.

Your history professor was a wise person. Wish I had a history teacher like that. lol.

The true purpose of studying history is to understand and learn from events. Not memorizing some random dates of when wars happened lol.

---

Liberals (who don't change their views) will be conservatives of tom.

Conservatives (who don't change their views) will be ultra conservatives of tom.

Conservatives of today will likely change their views in the future. Conservative of tom would be a liberals of today.
 
Look bhai....I am not an expert on these number crunching game.

I am just looking at both the candidates and seeing their electability chances.

I have friends (living in USA) who are very involved in politics (like factual - numbers guys) and they too reckon Biden stands no chance.

It's not just them. Many many many others feel the same too.

What's the use of all these stats when you can see one candidate making an ABSOLUTE FOOL of himself even before the debates began.
One's social circle isn't an accurate representation of the electorate. We naturally tend to gravitate towards people with similar beliefs and lines of thinking. Outside of the liberal echo chamber, you will find there's many more who would never vote for a democratic socialist. There isn't even a majority of democratic socialists in the Democratic Party let alone the country !

But forget stats or hypotheticals, tell me how the Democrats won the 2018 midterms ? How did they make gains in Trump voting, traditionally GOP held suburbs ? Was it with hard left Berniecrats or more moderate candidates ? The template is ALREADY there.

Now let me address those quotes:

If Biden gets the nomination, I have a feeling there might be 4 more years of Trump if we don't impeach him first. Biden represents the status quo of Democrats, like Hillary, that got us to this point. I want a progressive Democrat like Warren, who can appeal to more moderates, unlike Sanders.
Warren has always underachieved with independents and non-college educated male voters in her own state of Massachusetts. Her support is conentrated amongst educated whites which makes sense since Mass is the US state with the highest share of residents with bachelor’s degrees. But it wouldn't bode well for her in swing states like Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

I mean literally this. I do not know where all these Biden supporters are hiding. I get that it’s anecdotal but I have yet to meet a single Biden supporter in the 3 states I’ve lived in in the last couple of years.

Plenty of Bernie and Warren supporters and the occasional Yang or Buttigieg supporter, but I have literally yet to meet a single Biden supporter or even see a single Biden bumper sticker or yard sign in 3 different states.
Again that's indicative of their social circle. The Biden voters don't make a big drama of bumper stickers, volunteering, phone-banking etc. They aren't the most politically informed voters like the Sanders or Warren folks, and certainly WAY less active on social media. They may not even make up their mind until the day of polling. And guess what ? Those voters represent most of the electorate.

B]So let me get this straight:[/B]

You are saying that NUMBERS WISE, Biden will surely win.

So in your opinion, if Biden is nominated, he is AS GOOD AS having won the Presidency?

Am I understanding you correctly?
No I'm not stating that. I'm stating that in a national race, a self-confessed democratic socialist who struggles with older voters, older black voters, who has failed to turn out even his youth base to the same level as 2016, and has failed to expand his electoral base since 2016 has GREATER electability issues than the man crushing him right now.

Again, I see Biden's flaws too and frankly I think he's been a waste of space in American politics for the last 40 years. My politics are much more aligned with Sanders and Warren, and it's INFURIATING so many brainwashed simpletons in America think universal healthcare, paid sick leave and paid vacation time is some Marxist agenda when nearly ALL other developed countries guarantee them to its citizens. However that's the reality. Most Americans don't want a revolution. They've ALREADY had one in Trump, and want a return to normalcy.
 
One's social circle isn't an accurate representation of the electorate. We naturally tend to gravitate towards people with similar beliefs and lines of thinking. Outside of the liberal echo chamber, you will find there's many more who would never vote for a democratic socialist. There isn't even a majority of democratic socialists in the Democratic Party let alone the country !

But forget stats or hypotheticals, tell me how the Democrats won the 2018 midterms ? How did they make gains in Trump voting, traditionally GOP held suburbs ? Was it with hard left Berniecrats or more moderate candidates ? The template is ALREADY there.

Now let me address those quotes:


Warren has always underachieved with independents and non-college educated male voters in her own state of Massachusetts. Her support is conentrated amongst educated whites which makes sense since Mass is the US state with the highest share of residents with bachelor’s degrees. But it wouldn't bode well for her in swing states like Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.


Again that's indicative of their social circle. The Biden voters don't make a big drama of bumper stickers, volunteering, phone-banking etc. They aren't the most politically informed voters like the Sanders or Warren folks, and certainly WAY less active on social media. They may not even make up their mind until the day of polling. And guess what ? Those voters represent most of the electorate.


No I'm not stating that. I'm stating that in a national race, a self-confessed democratic socialist who struggles with older voters, older black voters, who has failed to turn out even his youth base to the same level as 2016, and has failed to expand his electoral base since 2016 has GREATER electability issues than the man crushing him right now.

Again, I see Biden's flaws too and frankly I think he's been a waste of space in American politics for the last 40 years. My politics are much more aligned with Sanders and Warren, and it's INFURIATING so many brainwashed simpletons in America think universal healthcare, paid sick leave and paid vacation time is some Marxist agenda when nearly ALL other developed countries guarantee them to its citizens. However that's the reality. Most Americans don't want a revolution. They've ALREADY had one in Trump, and want a return to normalcy.

Ok, first of all....you and me both agree that Bernie is better.

Only disagreement is that you say Biden has more electability chances.

Right?

Let's get that out of the way.

One's social circle isn't an accurate representation of the electorate. We naturally tend to gravitate towards people with similar beliefs and lines of thinking. Outside of the liberal echo chamber, you will find there's many more who would never vote for a democratic socialist. There isn't even a majority of democratic socialists in the Democratic Party let alone the country !

I never said my views are SOLELY based on my circle.

In fact, I always play the devil's advocate with them taking an anti-Bernie stance to understand their views better.

Your point about the echo chamber is BANG ON.

If we walk out of the echo chamber, it's clear Biden is going to eaten up by Trump.

Bernie has a lot of support and many dems are voting for Biden NOT COS Bernie is bad...but cos they think Biden stands a better chance against Trump. Nothing about Biden policies. Just that he is more electable. That's the most ******** thing ever.

But forget stats or hypotheticals, tell me how the Democrats won the 2018 midterms ? How did they make gains in Trump voting, traditionally GOP held suburbs ? Was it with hard left Berniecrats or more moderate candidates ? The template is ALREADY there.

It isn't presidential elections tho.

It's like bypolls. Where you vote for MPs but not the main prime minister.

Even in India, combined effort of some parties helped BJP lose bypolls but in the main election, the results were different.

Come Nov this year..people will vote IN or vote OUT Trump. So it's a different ballgame.

No I'm not stating that. I'm stating that in a national race, a self-confessed democratic socialist who struggles with older voters, older black voters, who has failed to turn out even his youth base to the same level as 2016, and has failed to expand his electoral base since 2016 has GREATER electability issues than the man crushing him right now.

Again, I see Biden's flaws too and frankly I think he's been a waste of space in American politics for the last 40 years. My politics are much more aligned with Sanders and Warren, and it's INFURIATING so many brainwashed simpletons in America think universal healthcare, paid sick leave and paid vacation time is some Marxist agenda when nearly ALL other developed countries guarantee them to its citizens. However that's the reality. Most Americans don't want a revolution. They've ALREADY had one in Trump, and want a return to normalcy.

I get you.

But let's forget Bernie for a while.

Let's talk about Biden.

When I mentioned stats and results in 2016 were different, you said:

RCP average has Biden up by 6.5% vs Trump nationwide.

And before you say the polls were wrong in 2016 therefore they're worthless, Trump outperformed his national polls by only 1-2% in 2016. FiveThirtyEight infact reported they were closer to the mark than 2012. Clinton won the popular cote by 2.5m but lost the Electoral College. She lost by 77k in the three key states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

So my question is (and I am TRULY trying to understand):

Why isn't there complete euphoria on how Biden will trash Trump

He is leading by 6.5%.

Seeing videos where they predict Biden will beat Trump when it comes to electoral votes.


Here's what they predicted in 2016

341 for Hillary vs 191 for Trump.

End result

227 for Hillary vs 304 for trump.


How did this happen?

3 questions

1. From the above video, seems like the polls got it COMPLETELY wrong in 2016. So how were they close?

2. If polls are good, then Biden should surely win right?

3. If Biden can't win or will find it tough, do you AGREE that there are other factors in play that will come to the fore in the elections? Right now Bernie is losing to Biden NOT COS he is inferior...many acknowledge he is better but cos they THINK Biden will beat Trump due to some swing states and Biden image with certain sections of the society.

Let me know.
 
If we walk out of the echo chamber, it's clear Biden is going to eaten up by Trump.
Yes you've obviously conducted scientific polling to verify this. So far, we've had your friends in the States, and some internet comments from a "neutral source". What's next, last night's drawing room discussion over chai ?

Look you have your gut instinct and that's fine. I personally think if the economy recovers from the Coronaslump then Trump will be reelected, because like my fellow Brits - many Americans don't give a crap about others until their own pocketbook is hurt.

I think Biden is too soft but nevertheless - these are just our subjective opinions. Nobody can be certain until the race actually happens.

It isn't presidential elections tho.

It's like bypolls. Where you vote for MPs but not the main prime minister.

Even in India, combined effort of some parties helped BJP lose bypolls but in the main election, the results were different.

Come Nov this year..people will vote IN or vote OUT Trump. So it's a different ballgame.
Yes it will be a referendum on Trump but swing voters must have a viable alternative to turn to. The Democrats won the House in 2018 because in those key battleground districts, they presented moderate candidates who could appeal to swing voters who backed Trump in 2016, not hard left Berniecrats.

Again, I am a Berniecrat far more than a Bidencrat, but unlike many others I realise there are limits to the Bernie coalition. You CANNOT win an election on the back of young people only - you DO need to appeal to some Republican voters and moderates. Whether you like him or not, Biden is better placed to do that than a self confessed Socialist. That was the lesson of 2018 which CAN be applied nationally.

Or do you honestly think Bernie can win over Republican leaning independents better than anyone else in the Dem field ? Please answer me this.

So my question is (and I am TRULY trying to understand):

Why isn't there complete euphoria on how Biden will trash Trump

He is leading by 6.5%.

Seeing videos where they predict Biden will beat Trump when it comes to electoral votes.


Here's what they predicted in 2016

341 for Hillary vs 191 for Trump.

End result

227 for Hillary vs 304 for trump.


How did this happen?

3 questions

1. From the above video, seems like the polls got it COMPLETELY wrong in 2016. So how were they close?

2. If polls are good, then Biden should surely win right?

3. If Biden can't win or will find it tough, do you AGREE that there are other factors in play that will come to the fore in the elections? Right now Bernie is losing to Biden NOT COS he is inferior...many acknowledge he is better but cos they THINK Biden will beat Trump due to some swing states and Biden image with certain sections of the society.

Let me know.
Here's the simple answer. The popular vote doesn't automatically translate into Electoral College seats. The EC vote depends on HOW the popular vote is distributed.

Clinton DID win the popular vote in 2016, she won it by 2.8m votes (2.1% of the popular vote) so the national polling wasn't wrong barring a few outlets.

But very rarely, the Electoral College vote renders the popular vote irrelevant if you win the key battleground states (Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina etc). Meaning you can pile up all the votes you want in densely populated, safe blue states like New York and California, or safe red states like Texas and other Southern states - it doesn't mean anything if you lose the swing states.

Clinton crucially underperformed in those key swing states relative to Obama in 2012, in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, narrowly losing to Trump by a combined total of 77,000. Thus, the 2016 result. The previous time that happened was in 2000 when Gore beat Bush by 544,000 but lost Florida and thus lost the Electoral College, and the time before that was 1888 when Grover Cleveland was the victim.

THAT'S why I keep banging on about swing voters and battleground states not just national polls, as Biden leads Trump amongst swing voters by 12%, whereas Sanders' lead over Trump amongst swing voters is within the polling margin of error.
 
CoronaVirus has come for Trumps presidency. The stock market gains are cancelled, his management of this whole situation is atrotious. Worse thing about it is, this virus mainly affects his base, the boomers. If democrats somehow manage to screw this up in november then I won't even know what to believe anymore.
 
Yes you've obviously conducted scientific polling to verify this. So far, we've had your friends in the States, and some internet comments from a "neutral source". What's next, last night's drawing room discussion over chai ?

Look you have your gut instinct and that's fine. I personally think if the economy recovers from the Coronaslump then Trump will be reelected, because like my fellow Brits - many Americans don't give a crap about others until their own pocketbook is hurt.

I think Biden is too soft but nevertheless - these are just our subjective opinions. Nobody can be certain until the race actually happens.


Yes it will be a referendum on Trump but swing voters must have a viable alternative to turn to. The Democrats won the House in 2018 because in those key battleground districts, they presented moderate candidates who could appeal to swing voters who backed Trump in 2016, not hard left Berniecrats.

Again, I am a Berniecrat far more than a Bidencrat, but unlike many others I realise there are limits to the Bernie coalition. You CANNOT win an election on the back of young people only - you DO need to appeal to some Republican voters and moderates. Whether you like him or not, Biden is better placed to do that than a self confessed Socialist. That was the lesson of 2018 which CAN be applied nationally.

Or do you honestly think Bernie can win over Republican leaning independents better than anyone else in the Dem field ? Please answer me this.


Here's the simple answer. The popular vote doesn't automatically translate into Electoral College seats. The EC vote depends on HOW the popular vote is distributed.

Clinton DID win the popular vote in 2016, she won it by 2.8m votes (2.1% of the popular vote) so the national polling wasn't wrong barring a few outlets.

But very rarely, the Electoral College vote renders the popular vote irrelevant if you win the key battleground states (Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina etc). Meaning you can pile up all the votes you want in densely populated, safe blue states like New York and California, or safe red states like Texas and other Southern states - it doesn't mean anything if you lose the swing states.

Clinton crucially underperformed in those key swing states relative to Obama in 2012, in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, narrowly losing to Trump by a combined total of 77,000. Thus, the 2016 result. The previous time that happened was in 2000 when Gore beat Bush by 544,000 but lost Florida and thus lost the Electoral College, and the time before that was 1888 when Grover Cleveland was the victim.

THAT'S why I keep banging on about swing voters and battleground states not just national polls, as Biden leads Trump amongst swing voters by 12%, whereas Sanders' lead over Trump amongst swing voters is within the polling margin of error.

Yes you've obviously conducted scientific polling to verify this. So far, we've had your friends in the States, and some internet comments from a "neutral source". What's next, last night's drawing room discussion over chai ?

Ouch.

Haha.

Fair enough.

Here's the simple answer. The popular vote doesn't automatically translate into Electoral College seats. The EC vote depends on HOW the popular vote is distributed.

Thanks for the answer.

I am aware of how the popular votes - electoral votes difference hence I posted video about the latter.

I get your point about 3 swing states which Hillary lost NARROWLY>

But in your response, you don't QUITE answer my question.

If Biden is leading Trump by 6.5% overall and 12% in swing states, why isn't there EUPHORIA that he will crush Trump?

Why aren't Dems celebrating and Republicans worried as hell? I see the opposite.

Please do let me know.

Or do you honestly think Bernie can win over Republican leaning independents better than anyone else in the Dem field ? Please answer me this.

People move one way or another due to variety of reasons.

Bernie is someone who comes and CHANGES the game. He doesn't promise a bit of change here or there which is how most candidates do. Now you may consider this a disadvantage but it need not be so.

The election game is played on an EMOTIONAL level and not factual level.

If it were the latter, Hillary would have won.

Trump used emotions to win out of nowhere.

Sure, you can dismiss it saying he won just by 77K votes in 3 states but the fact is....he came from SO FAR behind. Nobody gave him a chance before elections.

I have seen Republican leaning people respect Bernie FAR more than Biden.

Check this article where they ask 300 Republicans what they think of Bernie.

All of them said they won't vote for him (nothing surprising cos they are hardcore republicans) but 82 of them chose to answer.

Check out the answers:

https://www.businessinsider.com/new...blicans-like-about-bernie-sanders-2020-2?IR=T

Honesty. Reputation. Caring for people. Etc. Etc.

Guess what?

These are stuff that COULD swing the voters (fringes) once they see the debate of Bernie vs Trump.

Also check out all the talks Bernie did on Fox News (who have been WAYYYY more fairer to him than CNN):


The comments don't seem to mock him or laugh at him. Are you saying ALL of them are Dems?

Take Biden and all you get is mockery and jokes.

These are all rough indicators (not scientific as you would say but can point to certain trends). Hillary before election had a LOT of hate which many ignored).

Bernie appeals to humans on an EMOTIONAL level.

Also don't forget many of the older black voters, some sections of working class voted Biden cos he was more ELECTABLE (they say Bernie is good but they are worried if Bernie will win).

If Bernie is nominated, they would all vote for him in Nov (except the educated suburb professionals taking home 6 figure salary maybe - even in that base, many might).

Whether Bernie will beat Trump or not....is hard to say...but he presents something that Biden doesn't and can't.

HOPE.

Opportunity.

Honesty.

Respect.

See the comments that your OPPONENTS are making about you (link above). That's branding.

He has a MUCH better shot than Biden for these reasons.

If you can't give me a CLEAR CUT I GUARANTEE Biden will 99.9999% win after such a big lead over Trump on all counts, that tells us a lot about stats....doesn't it?

2 weeks back, Biden was all done and dusted. Now he is a candidate for future president of America?

Depending on him is like building a sand castle. All good but one wave is ALL it takes to bring it down.
 
^Excuse all the typos and grammatical mistakes lol.

Yaar I won’t count him out. This would be not about him. He is still a more attractive candidate than Hilary and there are people out there amongst blacks and Latinos who are quiet but will mobilize because of their disenchantment with Trump.

At the end of the day, they only need to flip three/four states.. while it’s an uphill struggle, I think it’s doable..
 
Yaar I won’t count him out. This would be not about him. He is still a more attractive candidate than Hilary and there are people out there amongst blacks and Latinos who are quiet but will mobilize because of their disenchantment with Trump.

At the end of the day, they only need to flip three/four states.. while it’s an uphill struggle, I think it’s doable..

Yeah true.

Logic and numbers point to Biden.

But there's no emotional fire in him.

He can maybe win with corona threat looming.... But all he needs is one mega screw up and he will be made to look like an idiot by trump.

----

Did you see his tweet a while back?

Pandering to get progressives on his side.

Bernie fought for it for 4 decades and this dude suddenly decides to make it part of his policy about 4 hours before the debate.

Plus its still not as good as bernie's plan cos its pete's plan (which he attributes as bernie's :)) ) .

The comments have been scathing.

This is the kind of stuff ppl hate bro.

Disingenuous, lame, spineless politicians who will sell out for the highest bidder.

Hillary had this image which hurt her.

This is why Biden is a ticking time bomb regardless of all the "controlled" support.

By the way [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION], found some Biden supporters on Twitter.
 
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Politics does not require logic or rationale.

It requires a passion and ignites a response.

Biden cannot do either.

In fact, I need a pillow every time I listen because he puts me to sleep.
 
Biden and Sanders tear into Trump over coronavirus response

United States Democratic presidential hopefuls Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders tore into President Donald Trump's handling of the coronavirus outbreak during a Democratic debate on Sunday, offering competing visions of leadership during a widening crisis that has upended the daily lives of Americans.

In their first one-on-one debate, the last two Democratic contenders in the race to face Trump in the November election clashed on the proper approach to the pandemic and other pressing issues, with former Vice President Biden arguing his approach to leadership would get quick results and Vermont Senator Sanders pushing for bigger, more fundamental changes.

Both candidates assailed Trump for his handling of the coronavirus outbreak, saying he had contributed to growing worries by spending weeks minimising the threat before declaring a national emergency on Friday.

The debate, originally scheduled for Phoenix, took place in a Washington studio with no audience, a move made to limit possible exposure to the virus - a sign of how deeply the campaign routine has been reshaped by the global pandemic.

When the two men took the stage, they smiled and shared an elbow bump - abiding by the advice of public health officials to avoid handshakes.

Biden, the frontrunner, recounted his experience as serving in President Barack Obama's administration in dealing with the Ebola outbreak in 2014. He laid out a coronavirus plan to make testing free and widely available, establish mobile sites and drive-through facilities in each state and provide more help for small businesses hurt by the resulting economic slowdown.

He said he was willing to call out the military to help local officials build hospitals and take other necessary relief steps.

"This is like a war, and in a war, you do whatever needs to be done to take care of your people," Biden said.

Sanders suggested the first step in responding to the outbreak would be "to shut this president up right now" because he was undermining the response of public health officials.

"We have got to learn that you cannot lie to the American people. You cannot be less than frank about the nature of the crisis," Sanders said, adding the crisis showed the need for his signature Medicare for All healthcare proposal, which would replace private health insurance with a government-run system.

"Let's be honest and understand that this coronavirus pandemic exposes the incredible weakness and dysfunctionality of our current healthcare system," he said.

Biden has opposed the Medicare for All plan, saying it is too costly and he prefers to build on the Affordable Care Act, known as Obamacare, by adding a public option for those who want it.

"That has nothing to do with the legitimate concern about income inequality in America. That’s real. But that does not affect the need for us to act swiftly and very thoroughly and in concert with all the forces we need to bring to bear," he said.

Biden promises woman VP

Biden, 77, and Sanders, 78, have been forced to cancel public events and step off the campaign trail during the crisis. They said they were taking personal steps to stay healthy - avoiding crowds, washing hands and having their campaign staff work from home.

Biden promised for the first time during the debate to pick a woman as his running mate if he became the Democratic nominee.

"If I’m elected president, my cabinet, my administration, will look like the country, and I commit that I will, in fact, appoint and pick a woman as vice president," Biden said.

Sanders was less willing to commit to picking a woman, saying that "in all likelihood" he would.

The debate came two days before Tuesday's nominating contests in the big states of Ohio, Illinois, Florida and Arizona, where another string of Biden victories would give him a nearly unassailable lead in delegates over Sanders.

But hopes the debate would be a first step towards party unity before the November 3 election against Trump seemed to fade during the showdown, as the two candidates bickered repeatedly over their approach to leadership.

"People are looking for results, not a revolution," Biden said, taking a shot at Sanders' promises to lead a political revolution.

Sanders, a democratic socialist, said his long-standing support for sweeping economic and social reforms was actually proof of his ability to lead and contrasted it with what he said was Biden's sometimes shifting views.

"I don't have to rethink my position," Sanders said. "That's what leadership is."

Both candidates promised to support the eventual nominee, and in a bitter exchange repeated criticism that has come up on the campaign trail before, with Sanders saying Biden was beholden to special interests and Biden accusing Sanders of being too supportive of the gun industry.

Earlier in the day, Biden's campaign courted the progressive supporters of Sanders and Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, who dropped her White House bid earlier this month but has not endorsed anyone, by promising to back a Sanders plan to make public colleges tuition-free to families with incomes of less than $125,000 a year.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ump-coronavirus-response-200315233758673.html
 
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