4 Muslims playing cricket for England but.....

[Saj]

some still say that Muslims in Britain donot integrate into British society.

Thoughts on this rather touchy subject?

 

[MrBrownstone]

4 examples are nothing. You have to look at the much wider society.

 

[Dios]

Not really an example of integrating. They are getting handsomely rewarded for playing for England.

 

[Slog]

The real sign would be when they are at the top level in sports like rugby and soccer which wasnt the main sport in their country of origin

 

[Slog]

Though looking from the outside with only a fleeting look it does seem Zafar Ansari and to some extent, Moeen Ali are pretty well integrated.

Saj Mahmood and Adil Rashid look like the types with little integration in mainstream British society

 

[Abdullah719]

Though looking from the outside with only a fleeting look it does seem Zafar Ansari and to some extent, Moeen Ali are pretty well integrated.

Saj Mahmood and Adil Rashid look like the types with little integration in mainstream British society

How so?

 

[TSA321]

The real sign would be when they are at the top level in sports like rugby and soccer which wasnt the main sport in their country of origin

Many have reached the top level in other sports such as boxing & martial arts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Muslims#Sport

 

[Slog]

Many have reached the top level in other sports such as boxing & martial arts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Muslims#Sport

True

 

[Slog]

How so?

Just the general vibe they give. Like who they are hanging out with. Their interviews and who they get along with in the team.

It's just the impression I get. May be totally off.

 

[Thivagar]

There is a reason why they are playing the game at the highest level. How often do you see a person from the sub continent pursuing a career in professional sports abroad ?

Out of topic but are all 4 first gen Brits ?

 

[Rayyman]

There is a reason why they are playing the game at the highest level. How often do you see a person from the sub continent pursuing a career in professional sports abroad ?

Out of topic but are all 4 first gen Brits ?

Yea, they are actually born and raised English.

 

[Rayyman]

Adil Rasheed is always talking to Moeen Ali.

 

[Bilal7]

These four will be a catalyst for more Muslim-Brits integrating into English society. Practicing, visible Muslim role-models are great to see.

Amir Khan is another decent role-model but with controversy off the field.

 

[PakLFC]

If the were not doing well people would say "being the largest minority there are no Muslim's playing for England in a game they are crazy about!" Now that they are playing still it's not enough to please most people, damned if you do and damned if you don't". The Muslim's just can't win no matter what they do. Even if one day England has a team of 11 Muslim's that seems possible people will still make veiled attacks on them. To make it better I think all of them who are giving India a run around are off Pakistani ethnicity!

 

[Thivagar]

Adil Rasheed is always talking to Moeen Ali.

Because they are bowling partners, they set up batsmen together. One turn one way and the other turn the other way. Their meticulous plan requires both of them to work together. It is less because their muslims and more to do with teamwork.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Just goes to show that in 2016 Britain you are judged on your ability/skill-set and not your skin colour or race.

 

[blue_champion]

That proves that nothign can hold you down in the western countries as long as you have the skill....but here is the question how many of these players would be ok if England cricket tomorrow has a Alcoholic beverage company as the sponsor?

 

[Slog]

That proves that nothign can hold you down in the western countries as long as you have the skill....but here is the question how many of these players would be ok if England cricket tomorrow has a Alcoholic beverage company as the sponsor?

they can do what Amla does i guess?

 

[Slog]

These four will be a catalyst for more Muslim-Brits integrating into English society. Practicing, visible Muslim role-models are great to see.

Amir Khan is another decent role-model but with controversy off the field.

why doesnt nasser hussain get same love from muslim community or desi community?

 

[blue_champion]

they can do what Amla does i guess?

I don't really agree with that either...Diageo is one of the biggest distilleries in the world and I am sure there are a significant among of employees belonging to the Muslim religion,does that make them bad-muslims?

If you have a sponsor means,he is the one pumping the money to your employer..if it affects your "morals","religions","ethics" than quit it.

Anyways it is only a hypothetical scenario...on topic good to see Asian players integrated into the British team and to add Mills and Jordan,England is truly a multi-cultural team...respect to secular democracies like India.England etc which give everyone a shot as long as they are talented.

 

[shaz619]

This whole need to integrate is just incredibly narrow minded, most people get along just fine not trying to be something they are not; however there are Indian people who come across as coconuts that go out of their way to please white folk but suck ups rarely get respect.

Brum in particular is a place where people of all races, creeds and religions get along just fine, am not sure what people mean when they emphasise the need for "integration" it's the sought of rhetoric UKIP use to recruit more followers and incite hate crime, people are going on like all non English origin folk in the UK are terrorists, admittedly it didn't look great on us when Indians sold out wembley 10x over to support an Extremist like Modi but beyond that there's not much to write about

 

[shaz619]

why doesnt nasser hussain get same love from muslim community or desi community?

Growing up in an inner city which probably had the highest % of first gen immigrants from the subcontinent I can confirm that we all were big supporters of Nasser Hussain and just loved his flamboyance to go alone with those performances with the bat

 

[Pakistanian]

They're just 4 Britons of Pakistani descent, I don't think mentioning their religion is important. Arabs and Iranians have so much pride, they wouldn't go around calling their athletes "Muslim athletes".

I remember Usman Khawaja's interview a few years back when the Aussie media was hyping him as the "first Muslim to play for Australia" and Usman responded by saying religion was very personal for him and that calling him "the first Pakistan-born cricketer to play for Australia" would be more appropriate.

 

[troodon]

Integration to me means following the traditions or accepting the traditions of the host country. Not to forget, marrying the host country people and adopting their ways.

I don't think any of the Muslim players in England team does the above. Its not just Muslims. Most immigrants from subcontinent hold on to their traditions, religion very dearly. Most marry their own people. If they cannot find someone like them, they import brides/grooms from their native country. These people tend to live in communities that also have people from the same country of origin and hardly attend any parties/events that host countries organize.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Integration to me means following the traditions or accepting the traditions of the host country. Not to forget, marrying the host country people and adopting their ways.

I don't think any of the Muslim players in England team does the above. Its not just Muslims. Most immigrants from subcontinent hold on to their traditions, religion very dearly. Most marry their own people. If they cannot find someone like them, they import brides/grooms from their native country. These people tend to live in communities that also have people from the same country of origin and hardly attend any parties/events that host countries organize.

Can you name these traditions you talk of? Otherwise it's a lame statement.

 

[Bilal7]

Integration to me means following the traditions or accepting the traditions of the host country. Not to forget, marrying the host country people and adopting their ways.

I don't think any of the Muslim players in England team does the above. Its not just Muslims. Most immigrants from subcontinent hold on to their traditions, religion very dearly. Most marry their own people. If they cannot find someone like them, they import brides/grooms from their native country. These people tend to live in communities that also have people from the same country of origin and hardly attend any parties/events that host countries organize.

Uh, no. Integration means following the laws of the country, learning the language, history, geography, picking up some social etiquettes and being a contributor to the country's success. You can do all this while being a practicing Muslim.

I don't really agree with that either...Diageo is one of the biggest distilleries in the world and I am sure there are a significant among of employees belonging to the Muslim religion,does that make them bad-muslims?

If you have a sponsor means,he is the one pumping the money to your employer..if it affects your "morals","religions","ethics" than quit it.

Anyways it is only a hypothetical scenario...on topic good to see Asian players integrated into the British team and to add Mills and Jordan,England is truly a multi-cultural team...respect to secular democracies like India.England etc which give everyone a shot as long as they are talented.

It really doesn't matter what your opinions on this is. Just because they play for England doesn't mean they have to let go of who they are as people. The whole reason why people move to countries like England and Canada is so that they can live their lives the way they want to without worrying about anyone else. England offers these Muslim cricketers the freedom to practice their religion and that is what they are doing.

 

[Bilal7]

why doesnt nasser hussain get same love from muslim community or desi community?

I personally am a big fan of Hussain and consider him the best commentator on the game today. As for everyone else, I don't think most know that he's Muslim.

 

[Pakistanian]

why doesnt nasser hussain get same love from muslim community or desi community?

I'm a big nas fan, both the player and announcer.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Canada has a multi cultural cabinet. Does it really mean when it comes to deep down society as a whole? Nope

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Inshallah very soon we will see 11 English brothers representing the Queen

 

[QazzarFan]

I personally am a big fan of Hussain and consider him the best commentator on the game today. As for everyone else, I don't think most know that he's Muslim.

Pretty sure he's Muslim by name only. English in every other aspect.

 

[Bilal7]

Canada has a multi cultural cabinet. Does it really mean when it comes to deep down society as a whole? Nope

I'm not sure what you're talking about but Canada is the most inclusive, tolerant and multi-cultural country in the world. The current Cabinet and Parliament is a result of that.

Pretty sure he's Muslim by name only. English in every other aspect.

Can't say either way. Heard nothing about his personal life, which is good in a way as it allows us all to focus on his perfect analysis and commentary without any distractions.

 

[Dios]

Nasser Hussain is half Indian/half white and is married to a white woman. His children's names are Joel, Jacob and Layla.

 

[troodon]

Uh, no. Integration means following the laws of the country, learning the language, history, geography, picking up some social etiquettes and being a contributor to the country's success. You can do all this while being a practicing Muslim.

What you are saying is only financial integration. The real cultural integration can only happen when you follow host country 's customs, traditions and marry them.

Otherwise, you can be a law abiding citizen. But hardly integrated in the society.

 

[Thivagar]

What you are saying is only financial integration. The real cultural integration can only happen when you follow host country 's customs, traditions and marry them.

Otherwise, you can be a law abiding citizen. But hardly integrated in the society.

That is subjective. Who gets to define what is "integration" ? Don't let the Western define terms. You have tons of retirees from the west living in SL, I don't see them wearing SL clothes, speaking local language and practice local traditions.

 

[street cricketer]

why doesnt nasser hussain get same love from muslim community or desi community?

Nasser is muslim/desi by just name. I think he is a non practising muslim while he hardly ever talks about his roots despite being born in India (though he has acknowledged it quite a few times). He is 100% British in almost everything.

Think the question should be how many British muslims/British asians support England in cricket or any other sport. I feel Moeen Ali is a well integrated player, while Khawaja is the closest Aussie counterpart to Nasser imo (irrespective of whether he is religious or not, he looks 100% Australian to me).

It's funny but I don't know if it's an issue unique to Britain. There are many people of desi descent in South Africa and they all always look 100% south african to me irrespective of their religion, ditto with the West Indies. Maybe it's a case of which generation desi you are and integration happening because of them being there over a long time.

 

[Muhammad10]

Nasser is muslim/desi by just name. I think he is a non practising muslim while he hardly ever talks about his roots despite being born in India (though he has acknowledged it quite a few times). He is 100% British in almost everything.

Think the question should be how many British muslims/British asians support England in cricket or any other sport. I feel Moeen Ali is a well integrated player, while Khawaja is the closest Aussie counterpart to Nasser imo (irrespective of whether he is religious or not, he looks 100% Australian to me).

It's funny but I don't know if it's an issue unique to Britain. There are many people of desi descent in South Africa and they all always look 100% south african to me irrespective of their religion, ditto with the West Indies. Maybe it's a case of which generation desi you are and integration happening because of them being there over a long time.

Not sure I get your point? Personally, I'm not really able to differentiate between the level of "integration" of Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid compared to that of, say, Hashim Amla and Imran Tahir.

Also, what exactly does looking "100%" Australian or "100%" South African mean? That's a rather ambiguous term.

 

[Thivagar]

Nasser is muslim/desi by just name. I think he is a non practising muslim while he hardly ever talks about his roots despite being born in India (though he has acknowledged it quite a few times). He is 100% British in almost everything.

Think the question should be how many British muslims/British asians support England in cricket or any other sport. I feel Moeen Ali is a well integrated player, while Khawaja is the closest Aussie counterpart to Nasser imo (irrespective of whether he is religious or not, he looks 100% Australian to me).

It's funny but I don't know if it's an issue unique to Britain. There are many people of desi descent in South Africa and they all always look 100% south african to me irrespective of their religion, ditto with the West Indies. Maybe it's a case of which generation desi you are and integration happening because of them being there over a long time.

Khwaja seems like he mostly grew up around White Australians and his fiance is White as well. Moeen Ali may have grew up in an immigrant dominated area where people tend to embrace their culture, language and religion a bit more. There are semi-westerners and they tend to lean a bit towards the either side of the spectrum, mostly falling somewhere in between depends whether they were born here or whether they migrated here at a younger age. You can find many Desis born abroad that only have desi friends. Even 2nd generation Jamaicans are like this in UK and Canada. Since Desi population is so spread out in the US, the American desis are mostly white washed in US. Aussie Desis are whitewashed as well.

 

[street cricketer]

Not sure I get your point? Personally, I'm not really able to differentiate between the level of "integration" of Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid compared to that of, say, Hashim Amla and Imran Tahir.

Also, what exactly does looking "100%" Australian or "100%" South African mean? That's a rather ambiguous term.

Isn't that the same what I said too. I said that Moeen Ali looks well integrated to me. He looks very British to me.

Anyway I wasn't referring to the players, but more about the people living there. It's a sensitive issue and I understand that there are different definitions for integration. What appears as integration to me does not necessarily mean the same to someone else, so it's more of a case of subjective opinion. In my opinion, integration of someone with the mainstream society means he must feel one with the community and not feel alienated which might lead to an "us vs them" scenario. He must feel british or Australian or south African or whatever country he is residing in. You don't want a situation where the immigrants and their children don't identify with the culture of the country they're living in. Sure, that doesn't mean you have to ditch your culture where you or your parents come from. But that also doesn't mean that you should never mingle and be like oil in water.

The reason I compared British and South African desis is because you find a lot of British Asians (of all nationalities) not supporting England and worse some even rooting against their team. They would rather support the country of the origin of their parents/grand parents rather than the country they were born in. When Moeen Ali said that British asians should support England rather than India or Pakistan or Bangladesh, he got booed by the British Indians which was very sad. But you don't quite see that with the Saffer desis. That gives me the impression that the Saffer desis look "more integrated" to me than their British or Australian counterparts. Again, it's only a sport and different people support different teams, so it's daft to say that they aren't integrated with the British society at all. But it's also a matter of perception and the Saffer desis imo appear better integrated than the rest, obviously because they have been around in SA or the Carribean for much longer and much more generations than say England or Australia. Anyway I understand that this is a sensitive issue for many and people may not necessarily agree with me here, like I said, it's more of a subjective opinion.

 

[street cricketer]

Khwaja seems like he mostly grew up around White Australians and his fiance is White as well. Moeen Ali may have grew up in an immigrant dominated area where people tend to embrace their culture, language and religion a bit more. There are semi-westerners and they tend to lean a bit towards the either side of the spectrum, mostly falling somewhere in between depends whether they were born here or whether they migrated here at a younger age. You can find many Desis born abroad that only have desi friends. Even 2nd generation Jamaicans are like this in UK and Canada. Since Desi population is so spread out in the US, the American desis are mostly white washed in US. Aussie Desis are whitewashed as well.

Yup, Khawaja rarely gives you the impression that he is a desi at all. He looks like the Australian Nasser Hussain to me. Speaking of Nasser, do you know that he was born in Chennai. His father is tamil but he will hardly look like one.

 

[Bilal7]

What you are saying is only financial integration. The real cultural integration can only happen when you follow host country 's customs, traditions and marry them.

Otherwise, you can be a law abiding citizen. But hardly integrated in the society.

You speak like a Trump supporter. In Canada - and places like England, South Africa and Australia I presume - you can have your own cultural identity and still be pretty well integrated into society, which by the way is made up of bunch of different cultures in the abovementioned countries.

 

[the Great Khan]

Integration to me means following the traditions or accepting the traditions of the host country. Not to forget, marrying the host country people and adopting their ways.

I don't think any of the Muslim players in England team does the above. Its not just Muslims. Most immigrants from subcontinent hold on to their traditions, religion very dearly. Most marry their own people. If they cannot find someone like them, they import brides/grooms from their native country. These people tend to live in communities that also have people from the same country of origin and hardly attend any parties/events that host countries organize.

Moeen ali's grandma was white english so that throws your racist idea out of the window. ANd no your definition of integration is bunkum. Maybe a RSS version but not what most people in Britain think integration is..(other than right wing **** who want everyone to be like them)

 

[the Great Khan]

What you are saying is only financial integration. The real cultural integration can only happen when you follow host country 's customs, traditions and marry them.

Otherwise, you can be a law abiding citizen. But hardly integrated in the society.

I think you have described perfectly the difference between those people who are civlised (live and let live, acceptance over mere tolerance, unity instead of division) and the uncivilised ( want everyone to be just like them or they hate them)..

 

[Slog]

Khwaja seems like he mostly grew up around White Australians and his fiance is White as well. Moeen Ali may have grew up in an immigrant dominated area where people tend to embrace their culture, language and religion a bit more. There are semi-westerners and they tend to lean a bit towards the either side of the spectrum, mostly falling somewhere in between depends whether they were born here or whether they migrated here at a younger age. You can find many Desis born abroad that only have desi friends. Even 2nd generation Jamaicans are like this in UK and Canada. Since Desi population is so spread out in the US, the American desis are mostly white washed in US. Aussie Desis are whitewashed as well.

agree. with Adil rashid it def seems that he grew up in a heavy immigrant community and majority people in his friends circle and one he interacts with are desis. Like there seems a genuine chance that him or moeen ali to some extent will get along well with pakistanis just because they are Pakistanis

with guys like khwaja and nasser hussain it def seems there is none of that and when they interact with pakistanis or indians there is unlikely to be any commonality with the desis

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

agree. with Adil rashid it def seems that he grew up in a heavy immigrant community and majority people in his friends circle and one he interacts with are desis. Like there seems a genuine chance that him or moeen ali to some extent will get along well with pakistanis just because they are Pakistanis

with guys like khwaja and nasser hussain it def seems there is none of that and when they interact with pakistanis or indians there is unlikely to be any commonality with the desis

Nasser Hussain and Moeen Ali are both products of Britain even though they might have very different upbringings. That is life in a multicultural society, I don't know why we feel it necessary to expect everyone to fall under certain categories just because they have a Muslim name. Do we judge Christians or Sikhs in this manner?

 

[Energetic]

I would love to see a Muslim who plays for the English football team, rugby team, tennis etc. that's what really counts. Cricket means nothing since it's an Asian sport anyway.

 

[MenInG]

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.

 

[USaqaf]

4 Muslims playing for England in no way means Muslims in general have integrated.
Long way to go.

 

[sweep_shot]

Integration is slightly overrated; each individual is different. Even within same community, you are likely to find different people with different lifestyles.

As long as the person is not doing anything illegal/bad, I don't think anyone should care a lot whether or not someone is "integrated".

 

[The_Odd_One]

The only thing it shows is how tolerant and accepting are Non-Muslim countries.

If you have a good skill-set, you will get the same opportunities as anyone else.