4 years, 3 Test series and still Pakistan and England are neck-and-neck in England

[Junaids]

2016 - The Misbah-Younis-Sami Aslam - Yasir team
England 2 Pakistan 2

2018 - The Sarfraz - Shadab- Faheem - Abbas team
England 1 Pakistan 1

2020 - The Azhar with oldies and kids with a missing 21-30 generation team
First Test - England won by 3 wickets
Second Test - Match Drawn.

It's extraordinary how evenly matched Pakistan and England are in England. Not in the UAE, obviously, where the last two series were:

Pakistan 3 England 0
Pakistan 2 England 0

But in England the teams are literally too close to call.

I think they have similar strengths and weaknesses. Each has a couple of top batsmen and a couple of top bowlers, supported by an army of interchangeable average players - who can really separate out Burns and Shan Masood, for example?

Overall, though, I attribute Pakistan's better results in England to them arriving early and preparing seriously. It was a big thing to Mickey Arthur for the 2016 and 2018 tours, and the pandemic left Misbah with no choice.

But look at how the other major teams did on their last two tours of England:

2019: England 2 Australia 2
2018: England 1 Pakistan 1, England 4 India 1
2017: England 3 South Africa 1
2016: England 2 Pakistan 2
2015: England 3 Australia 2, England 1 New Zealand 1
2014: England 3 India 1
2013: England 2 New Zealand 0, England 3 Australia 0

So overall:
England 8 Australia 4
England 3 New Zealand 1
England 7 India 2
England 4 Pakistan 3 (so far)
England 3 South Africa 1

I cannot emphasise enough just how important acclimatisation is!

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

It makes me happy looking at India's record and arrogant Indians think they are the best.India's record same everywhere in SENA countries

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan generally do well in England. Pitches in England suit Pakistani pacers.

 

[Junaids]

Pakistan generally do well in England. Pitches in England suit Pakistani pacers.

There is a simple reason why Pakistan under-perform in Australia and South Africa.

If I take you back twenty-odd years:

1989-90: Australia 1 Pakistan 0 Drawn 2
1994-95: South Africa 1 Pakistan 0
1997-98: South Africa 1 Pakistan 1 Drawn 1
1999-2000: Pakistan almost levelled the series at Hobart.

Pakistan used to do well in the southern hemisphere. But in the last decade they have stopped arriving early to acclimatise, and played the Misbah way, namely:

1. Arrive late, after playing pointless matches in Asia
2. Only pick 3 pace bowlers.
3. Cripple Yasir Shah with leg-side fields.
4. Place the slip cordon too deep.
5. Select old batsmen who can't handle the extra lift.

I remember at the start of the decade when in junior cricket Josh Hazlewood and Babar Azam were peers, as were Quinton De Kock and Ehsan Adil.

But Pakistan's youngsters are getting blocked on their way through, and the team keeps trying to play in Australia and South Africa as if they are in Asia.

 

[deep82]

It makes me happy looking at India's record and arrogant Indians think they are the best.India's record same everywhere in SENA countries

This is why Pakistan as a cricket nation and as a country can never progress if they feel happy for India failures and jealous of its success.

As for results, we have been very happy being No.1 in test cricket for 6 years out of 10 years last decade. I will take that irrespective of SENA or not.

 

[Mamoon]

So you are now giving Pakistan credit for a washed out Test match?

The only reason we are not 2-0 down after 2 Test is because of rain, and if it does not play spoilsport in the next Test, we will end up 2-0 down.

The capability of this side and its mentality should have been clear to you after day 4 of the first Test, and yes we saw what the “young” bowlers did.

 

[Slog]

So you are now giving Pakistan credit for a washed out Test match?

The only reason we are not 2-0 down after 2 Test is because of rain, and if it does not play spoilsport in the next Test, we will end up 2-0 down.

The capability of this side and its mentality should have been clear to you after day 4 of the first Test, and yes we saw what the “young” bowlers did.

You are either incredibly biased or naive to think that the game isn’t atleast even Stevens at this point. Pakistan literally made three chances in handful of overs. The score on the board is more than competitive in these conditions

 

[Slog]

This is why Pakistan as a cricket nation and as a country can never progress if they feel happy for India failures and jealous of its success.

As for results, we have been very happy being No.1 in test cricket for 6 years out of 10 years last decade. I will take that irrespective of SENA or not.

Lol Pakistan as a cricket nation is arguably ahead of India if not at similar levels historically speaking. Just look at heads to head for context.

 

[Mamoon]

You are either incredibly biased or naive to think that the game isn’t atleast even Stevens at this point. Pakistan literally made three chances in handful of overs. The score on the board is more than competitive in these conditions

The only reason Pakistan hopped on one leg to 236 is because of the interruptions. Without the rain, we would have been all out for a below par total in 3 or 4 sessions, with England starting their innings on day 2 instead of day 4.

 

[pratiktc]

The last good team that went to Eng was 2016 when there were actually decent batsmen in team who could stand up under pressure.

Since then it is just hoping that Eng plays at 50% level and Pak bowlers deliver at 150% level to compete.

With these washed up old batsmen, Pak will now not even challenge Eng. Even first test was anomaly.

Even with bat it is Pak bowlers who show more fight than batsmen in this series

 

[Slog]

The only reason Pakistan hopped on one leg to 236 is because of the interruptions. Without the rain, we would have been all out for a below par total in 3 or 4 sessions, with England starting their innings on day 2 instead of day 4.

You are clutching at straws. If anything Pakistan had a good partnership going and Babar Azam was looking golden before he was interrupted by a rain break and his rhythm broke. So perhaps Pakistan would have put up bigger score if no rain interruptions.

 

[deep82]

Lol Pakistan as a cricket nation is arguably ahead of India if not at similar levels historically speaking. Just look at heads to head for context.

Classic Pakistan fan reply. Living in 90's in 2020.

Majority of Pakistan fans just doesn't want to come out of 90's era. Granted you were in top 3 team in 90's and way better than India. But the fact India Pakistan played truck load of matches in late 80's and 90's and Pakistan best overlaps with India's worst. Now we have hardly any matches between teams in last 10 years when India is at absolute best and Pakistan arguably at worst. India would have easily catched up with Pakistan. Take a look at T20 head to head for example which were played in last 10 years or another example of Indian catching up with Windies in last 20 years.

 

[Slog]

Classic Pakistan fan reply. Living in 90's in 2020.

Majority of Pakistan fans just doesn't want to come out of 90's era. Granted you were in top 3 team in 90's and way better than India. But the fact India Pakistan played truck load of matches in late 80's and 90's and Pakistan best overlaps with India's worst. Now we have hardly any matches between teams in last 10 years when India is at absolute best and Pakistan arguably at worst. India would have easily catched up with Pakistan. Take a look at T20 head to head for example which were played in last 10 years or another example of Indian catching up with Windies in last 20 years.

The reply was perfect for your frankly stupid post since it showed you your place. Pakistan doesn’t need to progress beyond India as a cricket nation because it isn’t behind in the grand context. You brought you ‘can never progress’ which makes no sense in this context.

In any case the comparison isn’t even stupid to begin with. Firstly Pakistan obviously naturally will compare itself to other asian countries performances in England. Secondly, India has been one of the top international test sides post 2013-14 so it is natural to measure your performance against theirs in the same conditions

 

[deep82]

The reply was perfect for your frankly stupid post since it showed you your place. Pakistan doesn’t need to progress beyond India as a cricket nation because it isn’t behind in the grand context. You brought you ‘can never progress’ which makes no sense in this context.

In any case the comparison isn’t even stupid to begin with. Firstly Pakistan obviously naturally will compare itself to other asian countries performances in England. Secondly, India has been one of the top international test sides post 2013-14 so it is natural to measure your performance against theirs in the same conditions

Ok I can see your intellectual level when you say Pakistan doesn't need to progress beyond India. Guess what India is a top team and Pakistan is a middle table team for good 10 years. So if you want to move ahead as a cricket nation, you need to move ahead of India.

Obviously truth hurts and I can see that in your post. I never talk about performance vs England to begin with. I only reply to a stupid post of a user being happy on India's record rather than on Pakistan good record.

Also, relax you are not good enough to put anywhere in its place.

 

[Junaids]

It has been fascinating to watch the English Sky TV coverage during the rain breaks.

Even I recognise that for most of the last 15 years India has been a better Test team than Pakistan, albeit mainly at home.

But the Sky coverage really has showcased what those of us who grew up in England all know. Whether you are me, or Mike Atherton or David Lloyd or Nasser Hussain, for most of us Pakistan are our second favourite international team after our own country.

The reasons are similar to those why Newcastle United were so popular under Kevin Keegan.

You never know which Pakistan will turn up - the very powerful one or the bunch of incompetent clowns.

But more than any team in the world they often can put out an attack which is powerful in any conditions.

if you think of the 2019 World Cup, Pakistan were clowns against the West Indies and Afghanistan. And yet they were capable of performances against both finalists - England and New Zealand - which no other team could manage at any point in the tournament.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] sees the clown shows, and he is right. But you would think that England had smashed Pakistan at Old Trafford. They didn't - the weaker team squeaked home in the fourth innings after losing most of the match up to that point. (Thanks largely to Pakistan's fetish for non-performing seniors being selected).

 

[Invincible Gujjar]

This is why Pakistan as a cricket nation and as a country can never progress if they feel happy for India failures and jealous of its success.

As for results, we have been very happy being No.1 in test cricket for 6 years out of 10 years last decade. I will take that irrespective of SENA or not.

Who cares man? As long as India is losing it's making me and many others happy. India is no top team they are HTBs.LOL what success India have?How many world cups have India won? How many test series in the foreign conditions? How many world t20is? India has achieved nothing.India is not good enough.

 

[Mesozoic]

Lol Pakistan as a cricket nation is arguably ahead of India if not at similar levels historically speaking. Just look at heads to head for context.

I know any int'l game is a big game especially when it's India vs Pakistan but if you ask any casual Indian fan to choose between a superior H2H (with mostly bilateral wins) and an invincible 12-0 record in WCs (that includes a final, SF and a QF ) , you know what they'll pick. I'm pretty sure even most Pakistanis know what they'll prefer.

 

[Slog]

Ok I can see your intellectual level when you say Pakistan doesn't need to progress beyond India. Guess what India is a top team and Pakistan is a middle table team for good 10 years. So if you want to move ahead as a cricket nation, you need to move ahead of India.

Obviously truth hurts and I can see that in your post. I never talk about performance vs England to begin with. I only reply to a stupid post of a user being happy on India's record rather than on Pakistan good record.

Also, relax you are not good enough to put anywhere in its place.

Aww someone got hurt.

Also. “Not good enough to put anywhere on its place” what’s this anywhere? How do you put anywhere in place

 

[Slog]

I know any int'l game is a big game especially when it's India vs Pakistan but if you ask any casual Indian fan to choose between a superior H2H (with mostly bilateral wins) and an invincible 12-0 record in WCs (that includes a final, SF and a QF ) , you know what they'll pick. I'm pretty sure even most Pakistanis know what they'll prefer.

Lol predictable Indian fans. Anyways we’re talking about test cricket here too. Pakistan has better record in Pakistan and in India. Get on with the thread.

 

[Mesozoic]

Lol predictable Indian fans. Anyways we’re talking about test cricket here too. Pakistan has better record in Pakistan and in India. Get on with the thread.

Fair enough.

 

[Mamoon]

You are clutching at straws. If anything Pakistan had a good partnership going and Babar Azam was looking golden before he was interrupted by a rain break and his rhythm broke. So perhaps Pakistan would have put up bigger score if no rain interruptions.

The only straw clutching that I see is people assuming that these third class mediocrities with a pathetic captain would have dominated the proceedings.

Looks like people didn’t learn anything from the previous Test. This team is a joke.

 

[Slog]

Fair enough.

In any case I’m not even calling India an inferior team so I don’t know why you were all offended in the first place.

 

[Slog]

The only straw clutching that I see is people assuming that these third class mediocrities with a pathetic captain would have dominated the proceedings.

Looks like people didn’t learn anything from the previous Test. This team is a joke.

The only straw clutching is from the guy who predicted whitewashes in 2016 and 2018...

 

[deep82]

There is no counter argument from your side on " Pakistan doesn't need to progress beyond India"...you conveniently choose to ignore it.

End of discussion from my side. Over to something more important.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

The OP contains facts, actual facts, yet some people are still delusional enough to downplay facts. Tall about sick minds...

Any other captain instead of Azhar Ali would have won the 1st test. Even Naseem Shah would have done a better job than Azhar.

Heck, I believe without a skipper we could have won that game

I am so angry at Azhar Ali.

 

[Mamoon]

It has been fascinating to watch the English Sky TV coverage during the rain breaks.

Even I recognise that for most of the last 15 years India has been a better Test team than Pakistan, albeit mainly at home.

But the Sky coverage really has showcased what those of us who grew up in England all know. Whether you are me, or Mike Atherton or David Lloyd or Nasser Hussain, for most of us Pakistan are our second favourite international team after our own country.

The reasons are similar to those why Newcastle United were so popular under Kevin Keegan.

You never know which Pakistan will turn up - the very powerful one or the bunch of incompetent clowns.

But more than any team in the world they often can put out an attack which is powerful in any conditions.

if you think of the 2019 World Cup, Pakistan were clowns against the West Indies and Afghanistan. And yet they were capable of performances against both finalists - England and New Zealand - which no other team could manage at any point in the tournament.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] sees the clown shows, and he is right. But you would think that England had smashed Pakistan at Old Trafford. They didn't - the weaker team squeaked home in the fourth innings after losing most of the match up to that point. (Thanks largely to Pakistan's fetish for non-performing seniors being selected).

Pakistan is significantly weaker than England. Only Babar and Yasir would make it into the England XI.

And the “stronger” team would have never managed to squeak home like the “weaker team” at Old Trafford. You can write laurels about the potential of Shadab and Faheem, but never in a million years would they play the type of innings Woakes did in that situation.

Similarly, no bowling attack would surrender like Shaheen, Naseem and Abbas did in those conditions while defending that total.

That match brutally exposed Pakistan and its lack of capability. England had a collective mare with several key players underperforming and their wicket-keeper shelling chances, but they still managed to win.

Everything was stacked against England in that Test. From the toss to the conditions to individual performances, but they still managed to win because of superior ability in all three departments.

 

[Junaids]

The only straw clutching that I see is people assuming that these third class mediocrities with a pathetic captain would have dominated the proceedings.

Looks like people didn’t learn anything from the previous Test. This team is a joke.

Look at the opposition!

This is the lifetime century output of the England batsmen:

Rory Burns 2
Dom Sibley 2
Zak Crawley 0
Joe Root 17
Ollie Pope 1
Jos Buttler 1 in 45 Tests

This a wafer-thin England batting line-up (which is why they are so closely matched given that Azhar and Asad and Fawad are passengers too).

You talk as if Pakistan is pathetically weak while England are powerful.

But the England team of Anderson and Broad and Woakes has failed to win the last 4 Test series v Pakistan - they are currently standing at Played 11, Won 4, Drawn 1, Lost 8.

 

[Mamoon]

The only straw clutching is from the guy who predicted whitewashes in 2016 and 2018...

You don’t need to clutch at straws to conclude that Pakistan is garbage.

Things were different in 2016, and we were lucky to play only 2 Tests in 2018.

The problem is that there is a huge disconnect between how Pakistani fans see this team and what the actually capability of this team is, and then the likes of Junaids make it worse by feeding on our delusions.

If only we were half as good and talented as we think we are.

 

[Mesozoic]

In any case I’m not even calling India an inferior team so I don’t know why you were all offended in the first place.

Why would I be lol ? There was nothing offensive in what you said.

I was just pointing it out how the H2H isn't really a "be all and end all" especially when you have the kind of record that India has at world events. But yeah Test cricket, Pakistan claim to be ahead as of now.

 

[Slog]

You don’t need to clutch at straws to conclude that Pakistan is garbage.

Things were different in 2016, and we were lucky to play only 2 Tests in 2018.

The problem is that there is a huge disconnect between how Pakistani fans see this team and what the actually capability of this team is, and then the likes of Junaids make it worse by feeding on our delusions.

If only we were half as good and talented as we think we are.

Pakistan has been unbeaten against England for almost 10 years. It makes total sense for Pakistan to be optimistic having won 2 series and drawn 2 in this period and lost a total of 3 matches.

The optimism is totally warranted based on recent historical results. If we had a record where we were losing 3-4 tests every england tour then your pessimism would be warranted.

 

[Junaids]

Pakistan is significantly weaker than England. Only Babar and Yasir would make it into the England XI.

Burns aged 30 with 2 centuries in his life.
Sibley with 2 centuries.
Crawley with a First Class average of 30.51 and 3 centuries in 73 matches.
Pope with 1 century in his life.
Buttler with 6 centuries in 108 First Class matches.

You could make constructive criticisms of underperforming players, like Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq.

But when you then start hyping the mediocre also-rans in the opposition as if they were good, you just undermine the good points that you have to make.

I've been watching England for 45 years. And this is the worst batting line-up that we have had in that time. It's Stokes plus Root plus a prayer. And Stokes has gone home to Christchurch.

 

[Mamoon]

Look at the opposition!

This is the lifetime century output of the England batsmen:

Rory Burns 2
Dom Sibley 2
Zak Crawley 0
Joe Root 17
Ollie Pope 1
Jos Buttler 1 in 45 Tests

This a wafer-thin England batting line-up (which is why they are so closely matched given that Azhar and Asad and Fawad are passengers too).

You talk as if Pakistan is pathetically weak while England are powerful.

But the England team of Anderson and Broad and Woakes has failed to win the last 4 Test series v Pakistan - they are currently standing at Played 11, Won 4, Drawn 1, Lost 8.

The last four series includes the following:

2012, 2015 and 2016. Those three series have nothing to do with this team. We got away with it in 2018 because we only played 2 Tests.

It is pointless to aggregate the century output in this fashion because a lot of these players have not played enough.

For example, it is not hard to see that Pope is three levels above Shafiq and will definitely score more hundreds by the end of his career.

England is not an invincible side at the moment and the batting is certainly not that great, but what you fail to recognize is that Pakistan is barely hovering above Sri Lanka and Bangladesh territory and is a long, long way from becoming a top 4 side.

You lay the framework for Pakistan winning a series in Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and England every time and how Pakistan will make it to the WTC final, but then we all see what happens in the end, and I can guarantee you right now that Pakistan will not get a whiff of the WTC final.

The reality of this team is the following:

We only have one quality batsman who is yet to peak.

We only have one quality fast bowler (Shaheen) who is yet to peak.

We only have one quality spinner who has peaked already and is getting carried by his experience.

That is it for us.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan has been unbeaten against England for almost 10 years. It makes total sense for Pakistan to be optimistic having won 2 series and drawn 2 in this period and lost a total of 3 matches.

The optimism is totally warranted based on recent historical results. If we had a record where we were losing 3-4 tests every england tour then your pessimism would be warranted.

There is no point in looking at history because teams don’t stay constant. There is nothing common between this team and that of 2010, and the 2016 side was much stronger as well.

If Australia becomes a minnow and Pakistan becomes a top side, you would back Pakistan to win irrespective of our record in Australia over the last 2 decades.

England is stronger than Pakistan at the moment, and this is one of the weakest Pakistan sides ever. So the so-called pessimism is warranted, and it has only been fueled after the day 3 and day 4 disaster-class at Old Trafford.

 

[Mamoon]

Burns aged 30 with 2 centuries in his life.
Sibley with 2 centuries.
Crawley with a First Class average of 30.51 and 3 centuries in 73 matches.
Pope with 1 century in his life.
Buttler with 6 centuries in 108 First Class matches.

You could make constructive criticisms of underperforming players, like Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq.

But when you then start hyping the mediocre also-rans in the opposition as if they were good, you just undermine the good points that you have to make.

I've been watching England for 45 years. And this is the worst batting line-up that we have had in that time. It's Stokes plus Root plus a prayer. And Stokes has gone home to Christchurch.

Stokes and Root both failed to get fifties in the first Test and we lost. What does that tell you about England’s batting capability compared to Pakistan’s?

Cricket is a game of character, something that we lack in abundance. England have won an impressive amount of home Tests from very dire positions, and it is mainly their weak batting that pulls through.

Another factor that you don’t consider is depth. Woakes is primarily picked for his bowling, but he bats better than Shadab and Faheem and is probably on par with Rizwan.

Broad is half the batsmen he was 10 years ago, but he is still miles ahead of Pakistani tail-enders.

Pope has a higher ceiling than every Pakistani batsman minus Babar.

Buttler is a better batsman than Rizwan.

We can go on.

 

[Junaids]

Stokes and Root both failed to get fifties in the first Test and we lost. What does that tell you about England’s batting capability compared to Pakistan’s?

Cricket is a game of character, something that we lack in abundance. England have won an impressive amount of home Tests from very dire positions, and it is mainly their weak batting that pulls through.

Another factor that you don’t consider is depth. Woakes is primarily picked for his bowling, but he bats better than Shadab and Faheem and is probably on par with Rizwan.

Broad is half the batsmen he was 10 years ago, but he is still miles ahead of Pakistani tail-enders.

Pope has a higher ceiling than every Pakistani batsman minus Babar.

Buttler is a better batsman than Rizwan.

We can go on.

Depth? Depth, you say?

Adil Rashid and Jos Buttler both gave up red ball cricket. Then Chief Selector Ed Smith asked them to play for the Test team.

Mohammad Amir is in exactly the same boat. Let's call it "The Imran Khan of the Seas".

But Pakistanis conflate a boy's game with some kind of national duty, and even though he's sitting in the pavilion with the Test team, Mohammad Amir Has To Be Treated As If He Was Dead. He Is A Traitor.

Pakistan has that depth. No Test team in the world would select Chris Woakes over Mohammad Amir - not even England.

But Amir Must Be Punished Because He Is a Traitor.

Shadab Khan Must Be Punished Because He Does Not Bow Down To Azhar and Shafiq and Yasir.

Umar Akmal Had To Be Punished Because He Was A Dumb Flash Git.

Nobody has any depth currently - look what happened to Australia when they had a year without Smith and Warner.

But Pakistan specialises in trying to teach good players a lesson, then whining when the meek and mild losers who get picked instead lose.

 

[Giannis]

So you are now giving Pakistan credit for a washed out Test match?

The only reason we are not 2-0 down after 2 Test is because of rain, and if it does not play spoilsport in the next Test, we will end up 2-0 down.

The capability of this side and its mentality should have been clear to you after day 4 of the first Test, and yes we saw what the “young” bowlers did.

Okay but we almost won the 1st test, we had half their batting line up dismissed with about 140+ runs needed to win.

 

[Thulsa]

Okay but we almost won the 1st test, we had half their batting line up dismissed with about 140+ runs needed to win.

I recall a recent India v England test series. When they were last in England and they lost but the matches were very close. The comments here were along the lines of “it’s the result that matters”.

What’s different now?

Pakistan did a lot better in the majority of the 5 days but lost because they could not sustain their performance - and that’s despite England having a bad series with some of their worst bowling and fielding.

This test has seen rain play havoc and that’s enough to ‘conclude’ that both teams are even? Clueless.

Everything has gone Pakistan’s way - abnormal conditions, winning both tosses and catching England off their game. And you still lost.

That’s not ‘even Stevens” - that’s lopsided.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I never understand the hoopla around mohd Amir in tests.

Bhuvi kumar
Avg-26.1
Away average-26
Mohd amirs
Avg -30.5
Away avg -30.
Apart from that Bhuvi is twice the batsman Amir is in tests.
Amir will always live under the shadow of Bhuvneshwar kumar .

Actually The improved version of Ishant is a much better bowler than both of them.


Bumrah>shami>Ishant>Bhuvi>amir(in tests)

 

[Ahmed216]

So you are now giving Pakistan credit for a washed out Test match?

The only reason we are not 2-0 down after 2 Test is because of rain, and if it does not play spoilsport in the next Test, we will end up 2-0 down.

The capability of this side and its mentality should have been clear to you after day 4 of the first Test, and yes we saw what the “young” bowlers did.

This post shows you dont know much about cricket. 236 is a good score on this pitch.
Yes pak cricket in last decade hasn't been great and that suits ur negativity.
I presume most of the ppl on this forum think of u as some sort of megalomaniac

 

[Mamoon]

This post shows you dont know much about cricket. 236 is a good score on this pitch.
Yes pak cricket in last decade hasn't been great and that suits ur negativity.
I presume most of the ppl on this forum think of u as some sort of megalomaniac

I don’t know how much I know about cricket, but I know this Pakistan team like the back of my hand.

That is why I knew England would be favorites if they could restrict Pakistan to 150-160 in the third innings of the first Test, while others were doing bhangra over Pakistan’s win after the first two innings.

This team is full of crap with no resilience. Beating them is a piece of cake once you shift momentum.

 

[Mamoon]

Okay but we almost won the 1st test, we had half their batting line up dismissed with about 140+ runs needed to win.

We didn’t almost win the first Test. England nearly lost the first Test because almost all their best players went missing. However, in spite of that, they managed to win the match because they are a better side with stronger mentality.

 

[Varun]

I never understand the hoopla around mohd Amir in tests.

Bhuvi kumar
Avg-26.1
Away average-26
Mohd amirs
Avg -30.5
Away avg -30.
Apart from that Bhuvi is twice the batsman Amir is in tests.
Amir will always live under the shadow of Bhuvneshwar kumar .

Actually The improved version of Ishant is a much better bowler than both of them.


Bumrah>shami>Ishant>Bhuvi>amir(in tests)

I know right? Luckiest 30-averaging bowler throughout his career to get an entire nation's fame and adulation.

 

[Mamoon]

Depth? Depth, you say?

Adil Rashid and Jos Buttler both gave up red ball cricket. Then Chief Selector Ed Smith asked them to play for the Test team.

Mohammad Amir is in exactly the same boat. Let's call it "The Imran Khan of the Seas".

But Pakistanis conflate a boy's game with some kind of national duty, and even though he's sitting in the pavilion with the Test team, Mohammad Amir Has To Be Treated As If He Was Dead. He Is A Traitor.

Pakistan has that depth. No Test team in the world would select Chris Woakes over Mohammad Amir - not even England.

But Amir Must Be Punished Because He Is a Traitor.

Shadab Khan Must Be Punished Because He Does Not Bow Down To Azhar and Shafiq and Yasir.

Umar Akmal Had To Be Punished Because He Was A Dumb Flash Git.

Nobody has any depth currently - look what happened to Australia when they had a year without Smith and Warner.

But Pakistan specialises in trying to teach good players a lesson, then whining when the meek and mild losers who get picked instead lose.

Amir retired from Test cricket voluntarily. No one put a gun to his head. If he wants to play Test cricket again, he needs to publicly renounce his retirement.

PCB are under no obligation to knock on his door and beg him to reconsider his decision.

Shadab was part of the team that lost the first Test. His disgusting shot in the first innings was a major reason why Pakistan were not able to bat England out of the game.

Umar Akmal had to be punished because his career was only going downhill. He had a stellar Test debut in New Zealand in 2009, but his decline started right after that Test.

He consistently played reckless shots and kept throwing his wicket away. Like Suresh Raina, he never had genuine Test match potential. However, he could have been a limited overs great, but he threw that away as well because of his idiocy.

By “depth”, I am talking about deep batting lineups and not number of personnel at our disposal. England has only one genuine tail-ender (Anderson) and even he can survive, while our tail starts with Shadab.

 

[Indiafan]

It makes me happy looking at India's record and arrogant Indians think they are the best.India's record same everywhere in SENA countries

india has been the best touring side to Australia for a long time. In the decade of 2000s they were best by a long shot. But good to see your india obsession not letting you sleep at night

 

[Giannis]

I know right? Luckiest 30-averaging bowler throughout his career to get an entire nation's fame and adulation.

The fame and adulation stems from his rookie year (2009-10) when he blew up on the scene, stats aren't everything. Even to this day the rookie version of Amir would be considered a far more dangerous bowler than buhneswar kumar. Probably more people know Amir than Kumar around the world, that rookie year was legendary.

 

[Varun]

The fame and adulation stems from his rookie year (2009-10) when he blew up on the scene, stats aren't everything. Even to this day the rookie version of Amir would be considered a far more dangerous bowler than buhneswar kumar. Probably more people know Amir than Kumar around the world, that rookie year was legendary.

Helped by the fact that nobody had analyzed him yet, and he was bowling in the dampest conditions in England seen for decades.

It's like Ashwin taking wickets on bunsen burners in India.

PS: Even after that rookie year and at the time of his ban, he averaged 29 something.

 

[Varun]

Also, more people know Amir than Kumar, but that has something to do with the former's misdemeanor and not particularly his bowling.

 

[Junaids]

Amir is still a genius in English conditions.

Averaged 21 in the 2018 Test series.

Massacred India in the Champions League Final.

Took 5-30 v Australia last year.

 

[Manunited18]

The England v pakistan test series over the past decades have always facinated me because of a real ding dong battle, it's what real test cricket is about, passion, skill , highs and lows, having watched alot of tests up and down the country in the last 30+ years I've Come to the conclusion that pakistan have been a formidable outfit on these shores.

 

[Manunited18]

Amir retired from Test cricket voluntarily. No one put a gun to his head. If he wants to play Test cricket again, he needs to publicly renounce his retirement.

PCB are under no obligation to knock on his door and beg him to reconsider his decision.

Shadab was part of the team that lost the first Test. His disgusting shot in the first innings was a major reason why Pakistan were not able to bat England out of the game.

Umar Akmal had to be punished because his career was only going downhill. He had a stellar Test debut in New Zealand in 2009, but his decline started right after that Test.

He consistently played reckless shots and kept throwing his wicket away. Like Suresh Raina, he never had genuine Test match potential. However, he could have been a limited overs great, but he threw that away as well because of his idiocy.

By “depth”, I am talking about deep batting lineups and not number of personnel at our disposal. England has only one genuine tail-ender (Anderson) and even he can survive, while our tail starts with Shadab.

Please stop this "we" nonsense, this is coming from a England fan , your just trolling or you purely have hatred for everything related to pakistan. Theres no constructive criticism in your posts and its basically a bitter pill for you to swallow when ever they do well

 

[PakPremi]

The only straw clutching that I see is people assuming that these third class mediocrities with a pathetic captain would have dominated the proceedings.

Looks like people didn’t learn anything from the previous Test. This by is a joke.

Previous test was dominated by these third class mediocrities. As for this test Pak was the team to lose most from the rain due to batsmen having to restart again and again, and English bowlers getting plenty of rest and coaching staff time to analyse batsmens weaknesses during breaks.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Last 4 years, away tests

India 9 won, 9 lost, W/L 1.0
Sri Lanka 7 W, 9 L, W/L 0.8
Aus 5 W, 8 L, W/L 0.65
England 8 W, 14 L, W/L 0.65
SA 4 W, 9 L, W/L 0.45
Pak 4 W, 13 L, W/L 0.3
WI 3 W, L 10, W/L 0.3
NZ 1 W, 10 L, W/L 0.1
BD 1 W, 13 L, W/L 0.07

As an Indian fan, I will take this any day. Definitely could do better in England but I will never highlight one particular country because we have done well over there.

 

[Abdullah]

The only reason Pakistan hopped on one leg to 236 is because of the interruptions. Without the rain, we would have been all out for a below par total in 3 or 4 sessions, with England starting their innings on day 2 instead of day 4.

Oh my.

The above just proves that you get joy out of being a nuisance. It is readily accepted by one and ALL in cricket that coming on and off the wicket unexpectedly, and knowing you could be out there for another 5 minutes, 2 minutes, 10 minutes etc before rain or bad light,is much more disconcerting for the batting team than it is for the bowling team. Batting is always most difficult when starting out. Also the interruptions allow the best bowlers to bowl more overs as spells are broken up.

Totally sums you up

 

[PakPremi]

Last 4 years, away tests

India 9 won, 9 lost, W/L 1.0
Sri Lanka 7 W, 9 L, W/L 0.8
Aus 5 W, 8 L, W/L 0.65
England 8 W, 14 L, W/L 0.65
SA 4 W, 9 L, W/L 0.45
Pak 4 W, 13 L, W/L 0.3
WI 3 W, L 10, W/L 0.3
NZ 1 W, 10 L, W/L 0.1
BD 1 W, 13 L, W/L 0.07

As an Indian fan, I will take this any day. Definitely could do better in England but I will never highlight one particular country because we have done well over there.

Pakistan does not get enough test matches away to groom it players to varying conditions, even A tours are limited.
There is no doubt Pakistan team is not up to mark yet, but after getting rid of few seniors and having atleast adequate and performing captain results will improve. There are many promising younsters eithee playing or waiting for opportunities like Saheen, Naseem, Rizwan, Haider Ali, Zafar G, etc.

 

[tyron_woodley]

There is a simple reason why Pakistan under-perform in Australia and South Africa.

If I take you back twenty-odd years:

1989-90: Australia 1 Pakistan 0 Drawn 2
1994-95: South Africa 1 Pakistan 0
1997-98: South Africa 1 Pakistan 1 Drawn 1
1999-2000: Pakistan almost levelled the series at Hobart.

Pakistan used to do well in the southern hemisphere. But in the last decade they have stopped arriving early to acclimatise, and played the Misbah way, namely:

1. Arrive late, after playing pointless matches in Asia
2. Only pick 3 pace bowlers.
3. Cripple Yasir Shah with leg-side fields.
4. Place the slip cordon too deep.
5. Select old batsmen who can't handle the extra lift.

I remember at the start of the decade when in junior cricket Josh Hazlewood and Babar Azam were peers, as were Quinton De Kock and Ehsan Adil.

But Pakistan's youngsters are getting blocked on their way through, and the team keeps trying to play in Australia and South Africa as if they are in Asia.

same can be said about india. Look at India's record in England in the 200 era till about 2010.

india drew twice away and won once iirc. Why? india arrived early and practiced for county games, then proceeded to play county teams and had a friendly twst match vs west indies etc before playing England.

Indian players post 2010 seldom play county, nor do they practice vs county teams prior to playing the official tests etc. Hence we see the poor record. India can't be faulted as they have a far too busy schedule. India have to play more t20 and odi and tests than any other team.

Plus all indian top players have to be on the field in all formats as they drive up stadium attendance numbers so fatigue is a major factor.

The moment india start to take England seriously and play county again, I am 100% sure india will win away comfortably. India just don't have the time.

 

[Giannis]

Helped by the fact that nobody had analyzed him yet, and he was bowling in the dampest conditions in England seen for decades.

It's like Ashwin taking wickets on bunsen burners in India.

PS: Even after that rookie year and at the time of his ban, he averaged 29 something.

You're wrong on so many levels. Amir started his career in the 2009 T20 world cup, his bowling impressed everyone around the world, he played an instrumental role in Pakistan winning the title despite being a 17 year old making his debut and the pitches weren't damp, in fact there were some really flat wickets in that tournament. He then went on the tour to Sri Lanka, being one of Pakistan's best bowlers in the tests, after that he went to the champions trophy and played an important role in Pakistan beating India and later Pakistan almost beating Australia trying to defend a low total, Amir did really take many wickets in the semifinal against NZ but his batting in the death overs helped Pakistan put up something on the board to defend, in fact a part from his bowling his batting in the tail was also being recognized as a strength and that comes from drive and passion for the game, Amir gave his all when played but I guess that could be cause he was so young. After the champions trophy, Pakistan hosted NZ in the UAE and Amir played a big role in the series with both bat and ball, in fact I remember in the 3rd match which Pakistan lost by 6 runs, they only got so close because Amir and Ajmal put on a big partnership, there were chants of making Amir captain because how he played, while he wasn't batsman that performance was a testament to his will and dedication.

Afterwards Pakistan toured NZ and Australia and he was the best bowler on those tours besides Asif - they made up the Two As. This actually debunks your assertion that opponents "didn't have enough time to analyze Amir" because Pakistan spent a whole 3 months in Oz and Amir was still able to roll them over when he played them a few months later in England. Before that series, Amir also played in the T20 world cup in the west indies where the wickets are flat, he bowled really well in that entire tournament and I remember he took like 5 wickets in one over against Australia, and then there was his last test series which came against England - you could argue that the conditions were "damp" and he "unfamiliar" to them thus he "exploited" those factors but that ignores that the series was 4 matches long, by the 3rd or 4th test England would've figured him out and the conditions in the second half of the English summer aren't exactly damp either. Overall Amir was definitely rookie of the year 2009/10 and that's what people will always remember him for.

 

[tyron_woodley]

This is why Pakistan as a cricket nation and as a country can never progress if they feel happy for India failures and jealous of its success.

As for results, we have been very happy being No.1 in test cricket for 6 years out of 10 years last decade. I will take that irrespective of SENA or not.

and india will get back the number 1 as soon as these so called top sides tour india. Just wait.

 

[Rana]

This England side will be like Shawarma in the UAE for our side

 

[Varun]

and india will get back the number 1 as soon as these so called top sides tour india. Just wait.

Wait, we are not the #1 anymore??

 

[tyron_woodley]

The reply was perfect for your frankly stupid post since it showed you your place. Pakistan doesn’t need to progress beyond India as a cricket nation because it isn’t behind in the grand context. You brought you ‘can never progress’ which makes no sense in this context.

In any case the comparison isn’t even stupid to begin with. Firstly Pakistan obviously naturally will compare itself to other asian countries performances in England. Secondly, India has been one of the top international test sides post 2013-14 so it is natural to measure your performance against theirs in the same conditions

That's like saying Djokovic is greater than nadal as he has a superior h2h. nadal still has more grand slams. Until djoker beats or matches his grand slam record, it doesn't matter what the h2h says.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Wait, we are not the #1 anymore??

no Aussies are number 1. I think we are 3rd or 4th because the world test series rankings factors historical rankings for the past 4 years.

 

[Rana]

Lol at one @ssclown fighting tooth and nail to prove England is superior to Pakistan.

They should have lost the 1st Test. They would have lost this Test.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pakistan have managed to save their minnow level tag only on the basis of their performance in England.

If we look at their performance in subcontinent, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa, it has been utterly mediocre.

They have failed to win test series against mid-tier teams like New Zealand, Sri Lanka and Windies at home. They have failed to deliver anything better than minnow level performance in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand in past 8-9 years.

The superiority in performance over England is the only saving grace and thanks to their fast bowlers who keep getting changed after every season, Amir, Asif or Abbas but none of them have managed to even take 200 test wickets in their entire career.

There is no doubt that Pakistan will keep producing those exciting talents because they produce such fast bowlers in every street of Pakistan but as long as the lack of and mismanagement of Pakistan cricket team and their setup continues, they will struggle to convert a Naseem Shah into a Waqar Younis. That genuine talent will ensure that Pakistan remain an unpredictable side and better than minnow level but far from a top 2-3 test or ODI side.

 

[topspin]

The only reason Pakistan hopped on one leg to 236 is because of the interruptions. Without the rain, we would have been all out for a below par total in 3 or 4 sessions, with England starting their innings on day 2 instead of day 4.

Rain hurts the rhythm of the batsmen more than the bowlers in favourable bowling conditions.

 

[Junaids]

same can be said about india. Look at India's record in England in the 200 era till about 2010.

india drew twice away and won once iirc. Why? india arrived early and practiced for county games, then proceeded to play county teams and had a friendly twst match vs west indies etc before playing England.

Indian players post 2010 seldom play county, nor do they practice vs county teams prior to playing the official tests etc. Hence we see the poor record. India can't be faulted as they have a far too busy schedule. India have to play more t20 and odi and tests than any other team.

Plus all indian top players have to be on the field in all formats as they drive up stadium attendance numbers so fatigue is a major factor.

The moment india start to take England seriously and play county again, I am 100% sure india will win away comfortably. India just don't have the time.

India need to be more professional and to prepare properly.

They are already below even NZ in the Test rankings, and have hardly anyone under 30 in their Test team apart from Bumrah who is already in steep decline.

I’m pretty sure you and every other Indian would sell your right kidney to have Shaheen Shah Afridi and Naseem Shah coming through.

I’m English and I’m incredibly envious!

 

[Varun]

I’m pretty sure you and every other Indian would sell your right kidney to have Shaheen Shah Afridi and Naseem Shah coming through.

I’m English and I’m incredibly envious!

Oh please give us a break with the latest "17 year old" duo who will fade away by the time they turn "18" only to be replaced by another bunch of 17-year olds.

I suppose we should always be envious of what will never reach its full potential.

 

[Junaids]

Pakistan have managed to save their minnow level tag only on the basis of their performance in England.

If we look at their performance in subcontinent, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa, it has been utterly mediocre.

They have failed to win test series against mid-tier teams like New Zealand, Sri Lanka and Windies at home. They have failed to deliver anything better than minnow level performance in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand in past 8-9 years.

Last 8-9 years?

If you exclude India against Australia minus their best two batsmen.....

NZ 2 India 0
NZ 1 India 0
SA 2 India 1
England 4 India 1
England 3 India 1
Australia 2 India 0
Australia 4 India 0

 

[Junaids]

Oh please give us a break with the latest "17 year old" duo who will fade away by the time they turn "18" only to be replaced by another bunch of 17-year olds.

I suppose we should always be envious of what will never reach its full potential.

Are you kidding, or are you so nationalistic that you believe that?

I’m well aware that Naseem is 19, not 16.

But have you processed what Shaheen and Naseem are?

Shaheen is what Starc would be if he wasn’t so dumb.

Naseem is the reincarnation of Fred Trueman. As in, second best fast bowler who ever lived. Even Michael Vaughan makes that precise comparison.

To get both emerging at the same time is a once in a century event. It’s that special.

 

[Mamoon]

Rain hurts the rhythm of the batsmen more than the bowlers in favourable bowling conditions.

Nothing hurts the rhythm of our so-called batsmen more than the demons in their own heads. I don’t see why I should give them concession when they deserve any concession.

If it wasn’t raining, the wheels would have come off due to a stupid shot or maybe some brain dead running.

 

[Indiafan]

Are you kidding, or are you so nationalistic that you believe that?

I’m well aware that Naseem is 19, not 16.

But have you processed what Shaheen and Naseem are?

Shaheen is what Starc would be if he wasn’t so dumb.

Naseem is the reincarnation of Fred Trueman. As in, second best fast bowler who ever lived. Even Michael Vaughan makes that precise comparison.

To get both emerging at the same time is a once in a century event. It’s that special.

See posts like these are where I think your veneer of subtly breaks and I feel you are mostly trolling on this site. But its very well done I must say

 

[Mamoon]

Lol at one @ssclown fighting tooth and nail to prove England is superior to Pakistan.

They should have lost the 1st Test. They would have lost this Test.

England is a vastly superior side at least outside Asia.

If it doesn’t rain, England will make 2-0 in the next Test.

 

[Mamoon]

Are you kidding, or are you so nationalistic that you believe that?

I’m well aware that Naseem is 19, not 16.

But have you processed what Shaheen and Naseem are?

Shaheen is what Starc would be if he wasn’t so dumb.

Naseem is the reincarnation of Fred Trueman. As in, second best fast bowler who ever lived. Even Michael Vaughan makes that precise comparison.

To get both emerging at the same time is a once in a century event. It’s that special.

5 years later, Pakistan will still be 6th or 7th with the superior version of Starc and the second coming of Trueman not moving any mountains or lifting any trees.

It will be the usual Indian, Australian, English, New Zealand, South African pacers topping the charts.

We have been sold this dream before. I was told in 2014-15 that we will have a world beating side in 4-5 years, and here we are in 2020, proudly carrying the torch of mediocrity.

 

[tyron_woodley]

India need to be more professional and to prepare properly.

They are already below even NZ in the Test rankings, and have hardly anyone under 30 in their Test team apart from Bumrah who is already in steep decline.

I’m pretty sure you and every other Indian would sell your right kidney to have Shaheen Shah Afridi and Naseem Shah coming through.

I’m English and I’m incredibly envious!

I really don't want either shaheen or naseem. bumrah is the best bowler in the world. I agree our other top bowlers are old like bhuvi and shami and ishant are 29 plus. However they still have a few years left. India will unearth some new gems sooner or later anyway. You can have your shaheen.

 

[Manunited18]

and india will get back the number 1 as soon as these so called top sides tour india. Just wait.

Tell you something the standards of test teams are of such that it makes test cricket exiting because if the flaws in every test team, take them away of their comfort zones and there you expose mediocrity in general

 

[topspin]

Nothing hurts the rhythm of our so-called batsmen more than the demons in their own heads. I don’t see why I should give them concession when they deserve any concession.

If it wasn’t raining, the wheels would have come off due to a stupid shot or maybe some brain dead running.

I'll give you a good example. Babar was well set and then after the rain break he receives a rip snorter by Broad. You could argue a well set Babar would have had a higher chance of getting through that somehow without being dismissed.

Also an interval like that keeps the bowlers fresh.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I really don't want either shaheen or naseem. bumrah is the best bowler in the world. I agree our other top bowlers are old like bhuvi and shami and ishant are 29 plus. However they still have a few years left. India will unearth some new gems sooner or later anyway. You can have your shaheen.

Obviously,Bumrah>>Shaheen.
Actually bumrah is the best bowler in the world in all three formats.
No indian would give bumrah away for Shaheen or Naseem.

 

[Manunited18]

Obviously,Bumrah>>Shaheen.
Actually bumrah is the best bowler in the world in all three formats.
No indian would give bumrah away for Shaheen or Naseem.

I rate the Indian test attack, it's quality even though it's a ageing attack, whilst bumrah is good in all formats I rate shami as your complete test bowler, his skill set is amazing.

 

[Ab Fan]

Last 8-9 years?

If you exclude India against Australia minus their best two batsmen.....

NZ 2 India 0
NZ 1 India 0
SA 2 India 1
England 4 India 1
England 3 India 1
Australia 2 India 0
Australia 4 India 0

This is the case with every top team if you exclude one series for all.

However, on an overall level, last 10 years performance:-

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...2010;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

Country by W/L ratio:-

India - 1.79
South Africa - 1.51
Australia- 1.43
England- 1.23
New Zealand- 1.10
Pakistan- 1.00
Sri Lanka- 0.79
West Indies - 0.53

 

[Varun]

Naseem is the reincarnation of Fred Trueman. As in, second best fast bowler who ever lived. Even Michael Vaughan makes that precise comparison.

To get both emerging at the same time is a once in a century event. It’s that special.

Yeah, yeah. 10/10 for trolling.

 

[Manunited18]

Last 8-9 years?

If you exclude India against Australia minus their best two batsmen.....

NZ 2 India 0
NZ 1 India 0
SA 2 India 1
England 4 India 1
England 3 India 1
Australia 2 India 0
Australia 4 India 0

Good god some sound beatings there