4 years on - the lack of planning to replace Younis Khan and Misbah-ul-Haq

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnThisDay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnThisDay</a> in 2017. The end of an era as Misbah-ul-Haq & Younis Khan retired from international cricket with Pakistan winning a historic & thrilling Test series against W Indies with 1 over to spare. The victory was Pakistan's first ever Test series win in the Caribbean <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/ITdeiJLisE">pic.twitter.com/ITdeiJLisE</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1393096547945127937?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 14, 2021</a></blockquote>
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[MenInG]

Sad that to this day since 2017, we are yet to find a player who is as dependable as these 2.

Whilst Azhar Ali has had his moments, the only one closest to their replacement in recent times has been Fawad Alam but we know that his shelf life is limited.

The Asad Shafiq side of things in this regard seems to be a no-go.

So where do we stand, 4 years after #MISYOU ?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Sad that to this day since 2017, we are yet to find a player who is as dependable as these 2.

Whilst Azhar Ali has had his moments, the only one closest to their replacement in recent times has been Fawad Alam but we know that his shelf life is limited.

The Asad Shafiq side of things in this regard seems to be a no-go.

So where do we stand, 4 years after #MISYOU ?

The sad thing is people still call Misbah a dud (and obviously the root cause of all evil in the world) and Younis a flat track bully.

 

[Junaids]

I respectfully disagree with the entire premise.

From 2012-2017 Misbah and Younis CAUSED endless defeats in SENA.

Misbah was just completely rubbish - in his supposedly best series, in England, he was outperformed by Asad Shafiq and Sami Aslam.

By the time he got to Australia Misbah was out-batted across an entire series by…..Mohammad Amir.

Younis Khan was almost as rubbish: in almost every SENA series he delivered one century and five failures. In England in 2016 Pakistani people remember his century on a flat Oval deck but forget that his jumping around at the crease made him a laughing stock.

Pakistan would have done MUCH better in 2012-17 if they had dumped Younis and Misbah and selected Fawad Alam and Umar Akmal.

 

[Junaids]

The sad thing is people still call Misbah a dud (and obviously the root cause of all evil in the world) and Younis a flat track bully.

Because in SENA in 2012-17 THEY WERE!

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Fawad is an apt replacement as far as Asia+WI+Zim is concerned.

We put a little too much faith in Asad Shafiq thinking he would graduate to the level Younis did in 2005 but he showed time and again he was never going to be that guy.

Haris Sohail is the only one given a fare chance and he did well in UAE and Pak but looked like a non-cricketer in England(fitness concers, mental strain, could be anything)

Azhar doesn't want to move up to the opening spot and seems to have lost the slight edge he had as an opener.

Babar has been playing tricks 4 years into his test career still. Shows immense class but gives away his wicket softly without any repeatable pattern.

I feel for Kamran Ghulam, Saud Shakeel, Usman and others who are likely to be among the perennial run scorers in domestic cricket without getting much taste of international cricket till it's too late (a bit like Fawad)

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Because in SENA in 2012-17 THEY WERE!

The 2013 SA tour had bowler oriented wickets. Misbah did poor. Younis managed okay. Not many of SA batters were among the runs either in that series.
Misbah had a good series in England 2016. A tone setting century and a couple of fifties isn't a bad thing. Younis was out of form but made up for it with his double.
Australia was undoubtedly Misbah's bane in Test cricket, Younis although did okay.
Pakistan have historically done poorly in Aus and SA.

In one sided series like the NZ 2016, Aus 2016-17 and SA 2013, it only tells us how poor the whole team was not only 2 individuals.

Don't think we would have done better without them in that period with players who have never played in those conditions before.

 

[Barragan]

Yeah, should blame it on the management for backing the wrong guys!!

When you back guys with 36 and 38 FC averages, then this is what you get.

You had at least 4 or 5 guys (Fawad, Haris, Akmal, Salahuddin etc) with 45+ FC averages, but the ones with the lowest were backed.

Azhar as an opener was the right move from the beginning and removing shafiq at least 5 years earlier for one of them above would have made a massive difference.

 

[Manzy2599]

I respectfully disagree with the entire premise.

From 2012-2017 Misbah and Younis CAUSED endless defeats in SENA.

Misbah was just completely rubbish - in his supposedly best series, in England, he was outperformed by Asad Shafiq and Sami Aslam.

By the time he got to Australia Misbah was out-batted across an entire series by…..Mohammad Amir.

Younis Khan was almost as rubbish: in almost every SENA series he delivered one century and five failures. In England in 2016 Pakistani people remember his century on a flat Oval deck but forget that his jumping around at the crease made him a laughing stock.

Pakistan would have done MUCH better in 2012-17 if they had dumped Younis and Misbah and selected Fawad Alam and Umar Akmal.

Fawad alam maybe but no way umar akmal would’ve outperformed YK and Misbah in SENA. You’ve seriously underrated YK here. Even in the twilight of his career he went and scored valuable runs in SENA and actually won/helped draw tests which they were expected to lose. He’s the only batsman to have a century in all 11 countries that have hosted test cricket and vs each opponent. Yes he had his weaknesses but he’s Pakistan greatest test batsman by far. His conversion rate was excellent and was one of the only players who maintained a 50+ average in all 4 test innings. Till 2016 his career average was 54 but dropped to 52 when he retired which was understandable cause it was obvious they were giving him a farewell series to get to 10K runs. That is a great achievement considering he was more limited than the other “talented” batsman that came out of pak but outperformed them cause of his determination and hardwork. Something Umar akmal can only dream of.

 

[Major]

Asad Shafiq never suited th role of a middle order batsmen. He was good at the no.6 position, and he did get us runs in Australia.

In the middle order we needed somone who could build us innings. Azhar Ali was a 50 avg player, its sad that he dropped to the 40s.

I think Rizwan and Babar might have replaced these two. But we still need a player who can score you thsoe big hundreds like Younis or Lara did.

Azhar can stay at the wicket but cant score you the runs. Babar and Rizwan dont realy go the big score aftert getting a 100.

 

[Mamoon]

Babar and Haris were earmarked as their replacements and they were immediately drafted in the playing XI.

However, Babar has proved to be an extremely overrated player who is weak player of spin and also lacks temperament. He is not the world, class champion batsman that Pakistani fans think.

Haris is a more refined Test player than Babar but he does not have the fitness to last in this format.

Azhar hit a purple patch in 2016-17 and he was expected to take the mantle from Younis and establish himself as a match-winning Test batsman, but his form deteriorated alarmingly between 2018 and 2020.

Shafiq remained the same batsman with or without those two, but his inconsistency became a greater talking point because he was no longer able to hide behind Younis and Misbah.

Perhaps Fawad should have played every Test after their retirement. He is now too old and on his last legs, but his presence in the middle-order could have prevented those humiliating series defeats to Sri Lanka and New Zealand in the UAE in 2018.

Younis and Misbah should not be grouped together. Although Misbah was a very solid Test batsman who rarely got out cheaply, he did not have the ability to score big hundreds and double-hundreds like Younis.

Misbah the Test batsman was and is easily replaceable, but Pakistan is clearly struggling to replace the 50+ average batting of Younis and the concentration levels, fitness and skill against spin bowling to score those big hundreds and double-hundreds.

 

[MesonK]

Mafia backed selectors destroyed Fawads career otherwise he was the true heir to Younis Dynasty.

Right now what PCB needs to do is to ...

1) Make domestic as competitive as possible with green wickets so that FC records give you the real idea.

2) Selection should be based on deep data analysis like for a batsman

- Who scored highest against lowest averaging bowlers.
- Which side of the wicket most runs were scored
- How many dropped chances, edges etc
- Rely upon deep stats for selection. Enough with the cheap opinions. Opinions destroy sports, deep stats save it.

3) Put a ban on selecting players without them having 1-2 FC seasons behind them. Enough with these Musa Khans, Naseem Shahs and Dhani like knee jerk selections.

4) Pity selections should be banned too.

 

[Mohsin Kazmi]

Mafia backed selectors destroyed Fawads career otherwise he was the true heir to Younis Dynasty.

Right now what PCB needs to do is to ...

1) Make domestic as competitive as possible with green wickets so that FC records give you the real idea.

2) Selection should be based on deep data analysis like for a batsman

- Who scored highest against lowest averaging bowlers.
- Which side of the wicket most runs were scored
- How many dropped chances, edges etc
- Rely upon deep stats for selection. Enough with the cheap opinions. Opinions destroy sports, deep stats save it.

3) Put a ban on selecting players without them having 1-2 FC seasons behind them. Enough with these Musa Khans, Naseem Shahs and Dhani like knee jerk selections.

4) Pity selections should be banned too.

Even when Fawad was selected by 'mafia backed selectors' Misbah didn't give him the chance in playing XI when he was the captain. Also, what mafia are you referring to?

 

[Mohsin Kazmi]

Babar and Haris were earmarked as their replacements and they were immediately drafted in the playing XI.

However, Babar has proved to be an extremely overrated player who is weak player of spin and also lacks temperament. He is not the world, class champion batsman that Pakistani fans think.

Haris is a more refined Test player than Babar but he does not have the fitness to last in this format.

Azhar hit a purple patch in 2016-17 and he was expected to take the mantle from Younis and establish himself as a match-winning Test batsman, but his form deteriorated alarmingly between 2018 and 2020.

Shafiq remained the same batsman with or without those two, but his inconsistency became a greater talking point because he was no longer able to hide behind Younis and Misbah.

Perhaps Fawad should have played every Test after their retirement. He is now too old and on his last legs, but his presence in the middle-order could have prevented those humiliating series defeats to Sri Lanka and New Zealand in the UAE in 2018.

Younis and Misbah should not be grouped together. Although Misbah was a very solid Test batsman who rarely got out cheaply, he did not have the ability to score big hundreds and double-hundreds like Younis.

Misbah the Test batsman was and is easily replaceable, but Pakistan is clearly struggling to replace the 50+ average batting of Younis and the concentration levels, fitness and skill against spin bowling to score those big hundreds and double-hundreds.

Agree with most of your points but calling Babar an overrated player is really unfair. Babar may not be as good a player of spin as Younis was but he's not weak against them either. Case in point - World cup knock vs NZ where ball was turning square and even Kane was bowling like Murali

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I respectfully disagree with the entire premise.

From 2012-2017 Misbah and Younis CAUSED endless defeats in SENA.

Misbah was just completely rubbish - in his supposedly best series, in England, he was outperformed by Asad Shafiq and Sami Aslam.

By the time he got to Australia Misbah was out-batted across an entire series by…..Mohammad Amir.

Younis Khan was almost as rubbish: in almost every SENA series he delivered one century and five failures. In England in 2016 Pakistani people remember his century on a flat Oval deck but forget that his jumping around at the crease made him a laughing stock.

Pakistan would have done MUCH better in 2012-17 if they had dumped Younis and Misbah and selected Fawad Alam and Umar Akmal.

Now you're just offering revisionist history my friend.

Under Misbah's captaincy Pakistan won a series in New Zealand and drew in England. They did lose a test match in New Zealand and a series each in South Africa and Australia under his captaincy, but can you name one captain under whom Pakistan have won a series in either of those countries? On top of that, he finally won us a series in West Indies, something none of the supposedly 'great' captains that preceded him in the last 25 years could do.

And Pakistan's dominant UAE run under Misbah is something worth applauding. Even during the 90s and 2000s which are so heavily romanticized by people here, Pakistan regularly lost series at home eventhough they had a fairly good-great team. Under Misbah, they made their adopted home into a fortress.

As captain Misbah's record speaks for itself: Not only is he the most successful test captain but he also lead from the front: averaging of 51.39 in 56 test matches spanning 7 years.

You can choose to cherry pick his failures, particularly the torrid final tour of Australia. But Misbah's legacy will live on whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. He took a mediocre team rocked by the spot-fixing saga, that couldn't even play its home matches at home and he took them to the top of the ICC Test Rankings.

 

[Farabi]

Yeah, should blame it on the management for backing the wrong guys!!

When you back guys with 36 and 38 FC averages, then this is what you get.

You had at least 4 or 5 guys (Fawad, Haris, Akmal, Salahuddin etc) with 45+ FC averages, but the ones with the lowest were backed.

Azhar as an opener was the right move from the beginning and removing shafiq at least 5 years earlier for one of them above would have made a massive difference.

THIS! If a batsman isn’t even averaging 50+ domestically against inferior bowling, what chance does he have of doing so internationally?
Azhar, Asad performed to their potential, which was 40 average in FC. Rest was conjecture: “they will raise their game”.

Like you said, the only guy averaging more than 50 in FC was Fawad and he should have been there since 2010 because he’s in the same league as Younis and above Misbah.
Haris was injured and his fitness issues prevented him from succeeding.
Akmal, less said the Better.
The guy that’s truly been under utilized is Usman S. He’s a solid solid batsman averaging 48 over 10 years —> that’s a lot of data. He should have made the team ahead of Saud. He averaged 81 at the n3 slot last season.
You can now add Kamran Ghulam to this list, as well as as Saud and Saad Ali.
Salman Ali Agha is also special because of his crazy SR of 70.

 

[Markhor]

THIS! If a batsman isn’t even averaging 50+ domestically against inferior bowling, what chance does he have of doing so internationally?
Azhar, Asad performed to their potential, which was 40 average in FC. Rest was conjecture: “they will raise their game”.

Like you said, the only guy averaging more than 50 in FC was Fawad and he should have been there since 2010 because he’s in the same league as Younis and above Misbah.
Haris was injured and his fitness issues prevented him from succeeding.
Akmal, less said the Better.
The guy that’s truly been under utilized is Usman S. He’s a solid solid batsman averaging 48 over 10 years —> that’s a lot of data. He should have made the team ahead of Saud. He averaged 81 at the n3 slot last season.
You can now add Kamran Ghulam to this list, as well as as Saud and Saad Ali.
Salman Ali Agha is also special because of his crazy SR of 70.

Salahuddin was treated criminally - makes his debut at Headingley of all places and is not seen again.

Both Inzamam and M Wasim have said they want him to improve his SR which is absurd given Azhar's FC SR is slightly lower (43 vs 44).

 

[UzmanBeast]

I don't think I have seen a better player of spin in Pakistan since Younis Khan retired. He is probably our greatest ever player of spin. Misbah was dependable because he'd get you that 50 when half the team was back in the pavilion. I see shades of Misbah in Rizwan, though Rizwan is far more elegant and performs in all conditions by the looks of it.

The problem was that Babar Azam and Haris Sohail, like many suggested as the replacements for Misbah and Younis, never solidified their spots through performances. There is a massive hole in our team in the middle order because we are missing a guy like Younis, who could score huge hundreds. Our batsmen lack the conversion of a 100 to a 200, and that has constantly proven to be a downfall in our cricket.

Pakistan need to identify a player to replace Azhar from now, and it should either be Saud Shakeel or Kamran Ghulam. Azhar has been a good player for us in the past, he has served Pakistan Cricket without any controversy, but the management should really ask him to consider retirement after this upcoming WTC cycle is over.

 

[MesonK]

Even when Fawad was selected by 'mafia backed selectors' Misbah didn't give him the chance in playing XI when he was the captain. Also, what mafia are you referring to?

I do not know how much you follow Pakistani cricket. There are corrupt groups who back their favorites to be played in the team and keep the more deserving players out. They have voices in corrupt media as well.

Recent case is of Rizwan who is arguably the best in the world in his category right now but media section backed by Mafia from Karachi are constantly trying hard to get Sarfaraz in the team who even at his best was not even half the player Rizwan is (and I am from Karachi).

 

[Saj]

Very tough to replace such players, as Sri Lanka have found with Jayawardene and Sangakkara.

The thing was, both Misbah and Younis were scoring runs right up to their retirement and that made it difficult to drop them. What could have been handled better was perhaps other options being tried in some of the lesser series, but that didn't happen.

 

[Farabi]

I do not know how much you follow Pakistani cricket. There are corrupt groups who back their favorites to be played in the team and keep the more deserving players out. They have voices in corrupt media as well.

Recent case is of Rizwan who is arguably the best in the world in his category right now but media section backed by Mafia from Karachi are constantly trying hard to get Sarfaraz in the team who even at his best was not even half the player Rizwan is (and I am from Karachi).

I am from Karachi as well. I agree that Karachi-based media show bias for Karachi-based players. But I see it more as a reaction to strange selection practices.
Whenever you think about the best domestic players who were ignored in their prime, Karachi-based players like Fawad, Khurram, Khalid, Tanvir, and Tabish are mentioned. Yes there are non-karachi based players like Sadaf, but it should not be a mystery that majority are from Karachi. This obviously feeds the fears and insecurities, specially given the political context.
In a like/dislike and favoritism culture, it could be an advantage to have the same culture and speak the same language as PCB and coaches. Where there is smoke, there is fire...

 

[MesonK]

I am from Karachi as well. I agree that Karachi-based media show bias for Karachi-based players. But I see it more as a reaction to strange selection practices.
Whenever you think about the best domestic players who were ignored in their prime, Karachi-based players like Fawad, Khurram, Khalid, Tanvir, and Tabish are mentioned. Yes there are non-karachi based players like Sadaf, but it should not be a mystery that majority are from Karachi. This obviously feeds the fears and insecurities, specially given the political context.
In a like/dislike and favoritism culture, it could be an advantage to have the same culture and speak the same language as PCB and coaches. Where there is smoke, there is fire...

Karachi Mafia (4-5 guys only) only supports certain urdu speaking players in Karachi even though half of the city is made of other ethnicities.

You wont see the same amount of passion that they show for TTF Sarfaraz, for other Karachi based players that are of none urdu speaking origin. Examples are Sohail Khan, Tanvir, Mir hamza, Usama Mir etc. Sohail Khan was discarded from side after a superb England series where he was the reason we drew the series. He was kept in and out and now he is what 37 ? They think the best in the world Rizwan should be kicked out of the team so that they can fit their talentless Sarafarz in, but they didnt host any show for Sohail Khan who was easily among top 2 of our best bowlers in WC 2015.

Also, this very same mafia did not talk about Fawad Alam at his prime or now about Hasnain who will probably be kicked out soon from the national side. Both are urdu speaking players which tells you the reality of these mafia men, they are very corrupt people who do not care about anything else other than money itself.

(btw I am half urdu speaking, karachi born and raised)

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Very tough to replace such players, as Sri Lanka have found with Jayawardene and Sangakkara.

The thing was, both Misbah and Younis were scoring runs right up to their retirement and that made it difficult to drop them. What could have been handled better was perhaps other options being tried in some of the lesser series, but that didn't happen.

Pakistan may not have found replacements for Misbah and Younis but I would argue that we are in a much better place than Sri Lanka. Or West Indies for that matter who are yet to find a middle-order trio like Sarwan-Lara-Chanderpaul all these years later.

 

[Farabi]

Karachi Mafia (4-5 guys only) only supports certain urdu speaking players in Karachi even though half of the city is made of other ethnicities.

You wont see the same amount of passion that they show for TTF Sarfaraz, for other Karachi based players that are of none urdu speaking origin. Examples are Sohail Khan, Tanvir, Mir hamza, Usama Mir etc. Sohail Khan was discarded from side after a superb England series where he was the reason we drew the series. He was kept in and out and now he is what 37 ? They think the best in the world Rizwan should be kicked out of the team so that they can fit their talentless Sarafarz in, but they didnt host any show for Sohail Khan who was easily among top 2 of our best bowlers in WC 2015.

Also, this very same mafia did not talk about Fawad Alam at his prime or now about Hasnain who will probably be kicked out soon from the national side. Both are urdu speaking players which tells you the reality of these mafia men, they are very corrupt people who do not care about anything else other than money itself.

(btw I am half urdu speaking, karachi born and raised)

I am also half urdu speaking, karachi born and raised. I don't believe in regionalism. The best 11 should play on merit.
That said, I have personally seen Karachi media has continuously raised the voice for Khurram Manzoor, Sohail Khan Fawad Alam and Sarfaraz. I actually credit the "mafia" for bringing Fawad into the team. He had no chance otherwise.
There are so many Karachi-based player ignored who bully in domestic cricket, obviously you are not going to hear the noise for every single player. I think Sarfaraz's case must be understood in context. His case got highlighted when he was ignored during the 2010-2015 period when Sarfaraz was at his peak and performing regularly in domestic cricket yet the Akmals were taking turns. He just sort of became the "face" of the karachi-based media campaign. However, the media hasn't really caught on to the fact that Sarfaraz is no longer the best keeper batsman in Pakistan after emergence of Rizwan. Rizwan also didn't really take his chances until last year.
To be honest, I would not put Hasnain in the same league as Fawad, Khurram, Tanvir, Mir Hamza. Former is already with the team at a young age and has gotten fair chances for the performances he has shown to date. The latter has heaps of domestic performances over a long period and were ignored during their prime and never really got the chances they deserved to cement their spots.

 

[MesonK]

I am also half urdu speaking, karachi born and raised. I don't believe in regionalism. The best 11 should play on merit.
That said, I have personally seen Karachi media has continuously raised the voice for Khurram Manzoor, Sohail Khan Fawad Alam and Sarfaraz. I actually credit the "mafia" for bringing Fawad into the team. He had no chance otherwise.
There are so many Karachi-based player ignored who bully in domestic cricket, obviously you are not going to hear the noise for every single player. I think Sarfaraz's case must be understood in context. His case got highlighted when he was ignored during the 2010-2015 period when Sarfaraz was at his peak and performing regularly in domestic cricket yet the Akmals were taking turns. He just sort of became the "face" of the karachi-based media campaign. However, the media hasn't really caught on to the fact that Sarfaraz is no longer the best keeper batsman in Pakistan after emergence of Rizwan. Rizwan also didn't really take his chances until last year.
To be honest, I would not put Hasnain in the same league as Fawad, Khurram, Tanvir, Mir Hamza. Former is already with the team at a young age and has gotten fair chances for the performances he has shown to date. The latter has heaps of domestic performances over a long period and were ignored during their prime and never really got the chances they deserved to cement their spots.

You answered your own argument. Tanvir, Mir Hamza, Sohail Khan were never supported by Karachi Mafia even though they were karachiites on simple fact that they are not Urdu speakings. Sarfaraz is not being backed right now against Rizwan because of his 2010-2015 domestic performance. Mafia men on media dont argue about that, they usually come up with cheap tactics like pushing the agenda that rizwan should be sent down the order so that he gets less bowls to play big innings and then they can push in proven con Sharjeel or TTF Sarfaraz in. Sarafarz doesnt deserve to be in the squad yet they are persistent. They would not talk about anyone other than few of their favorite ones. Hasnain will be kicked out in favor or Haris Rauf yet you would not see these men talk for Hasnain.

Few days ago some guy was asking Rashid Lateef how can Sarfraz fit in the team ROFL and Lateef was constantly saying that Rizwan has proven he is world class champion player please stop this nonsense yet the anchor guy kept asking if Sarafaraz can play purely as a batsmen in middle order LOL. I can post stats of our karachi boy Sarafarz to prove how great he is or ever was.

And Fawad was not selected on anyones voice. We have to give Misbah this credit that Misbah put Fawad back in the system when he became selector.

 

[Saj]

Pakistan may not have found replacements for Misbah and Younis but I would argue that we are in a much better place than Sri Lanka. Or West Indies for that matter who are yet to find a middle-order trio like Sarwan-Lara-Chanderpaul all these years later.

Yes with Fawad there, Azhar Ali still hanging around and Babar Azam there too.

But who knows maybe the situation could have been even better with some better planning.

 

[Shazzam]

Misbah is already replaced by Babar, Younus Khan is replaced by Fawad Alam. If both of them fail we got Rizwan.

 

[Farabi]

You answered your own argument. Tanvir, Mir Hamza, Sohail Khan were never supported by Karachi Mafia even though they were karachiites on simple fact that they are not Urdu speakings. Sarfaraz is not being backed right now against Rizwan because of his 2010-2015 domestic performance. Mafia men on media dont argue about that, they usually come up with cheap tactics like pushing the agenda that rizwan should be sent down the order so that he gets less bowls to play big innings and then they can push in proven con Sharjeel or TTF Sarfaraz in. Sarafarz doesnt deserve to be in the squad yet they are persistent. They would not talk about anyone other than few of their favorite ones. Hasnain will be kicked out in favor or Haris Rauf yet you would not see these men talk for Hasnain.

Few days ago some guy was asking Rashid Lateef how can Sarfraz fit in the team ROFL and Lateef was constantly saying that Rizwan has proven he is world class champion player please stop this nonsense yet the anchor guy kept asking if Sarafaraz can play purely as a batsmen in middle order LOL. I can post stats of our karachi boy Sarafarz to prove how great he is or ever was.

And Fawad was not selected on anyones voice. We have to give Misbah this credit that Misbah put Fawad back in the system when he became selector.

Wow! Misbah is top of the list for wasting Fawad's entire career. Misbah was very well aware of Fawad's exceptional performances in domestic cricket because Misbah regularly played FC cricket. How come Misbah never game Fawad a single chance when he was the all-powerful captain for 7 years?

The media had a HUGE role in this and rightly so. When Misbah became the coach, the media never failed to ask questions about non-selection of Fawad, specially because Pak test outfit was struggling and needed help. Misbah kept Fawad on the bench and wasted another year for Fawad. Fawad finally got his chance after Haris Sohail pulled out of the Eng tour due to concerns about the ongoing coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic. Thank GOD! The rest is history.

Also, Sarfaraz's selection has nothing to do with media. Sarfaraz scored ton of runs in domestic cricket, regained fitness, and he also looked in great form in the PSL 6 - he was one of the top 5 run scorer with an avg of 37 and SR of 144. Based on his recent form, he makes the team in the Middle order. He was played in each of the T20s deciders as a desperate measure because the middle order batsmen like Danish and Asif failed to impress and the team was desperate to win. This had nothing to do with "media pressure".

I personally like Rizwan as opener. But may people dont and its got nothing to do with karachi mafia. most of the PP fans on here and cricket pundits who are NOT karachi "mafia" also want Rizwan in middle-order. Just look at T20 line-ups posted in PP, its usually Fakhar/Sharjeel as opener.

 

[daytrader]

Wow! Misbah is top of the list for wasting Fawad's entire career. Misbah was very well aware of Fawad's exceptional performances in domestic cricket because Misbah regularly played FC cricket. How come Misbah never game Fawad a single chance when he was the all-powerful captain for 7 years?

That blame is misplaced. We had a settled middle order before Misbah and YK retired, Asad Shafiq was also performing then. It was tough for Fawad to break into the team. Similar to how Misbah himself was kept out when we had Mo Yo and Inzi in the middle order. If anything the selectors of then are to be blamed. Misbah deserves credit for selecting him now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes with Fawad there, Azhar Ali still hanging around and Babar Azam there too.

But who knows maybe the situation could have been even better with some better planning.

For me, the blunder was putting all the eggs in the Azhar-Asad basket. Azhar Ali has done well but not lived up to the expectations that most had from him especially during his peak when he was averaging 47 at the top of the order. Whereas Asad Shafiq ended up being a terrible investment considering how badly his career fell off a cliff once Misbah Younis left.

 

[Farabi]

That blame is misplaced. We had a settled middle order before Misbah and YK retired, Asad Shafiq was also performing then. It was tough for Fawad to break into the team. Similar to how Misbah himself was kept out when we had Mo Yo and Inzi in the middle order. If anything the selectors of then are to be blamed. Misbah deserves credit for selecting him now.

This is literally the laziest excuse given busted so many times. Under Misbah, Shoib Malik, Umer Akmal and Faisal Iqbal have also been part of the Pakistan’s test squads through 2010-2015. Babar made his debut in the middle order under Misbah’s captaincy. Also must be said Asad was also a Misbah’s punt that never really paid off. Misbah is also responsible for punting on Asad and not letting Fawad even close to the squad throughout his captaincy and kept Fawad on the bench for an entire year as coach this is coming from a Misbah fan

 

[Barragan]

THIS! If a batsman isn’t even averaging 50+ domestically against inferior bowling, what chance does he have of doing so internationally?
Azhar, Asad performed to their potential, which was 40 average in FC. Rest was conjecture: “they will raise their game”.

Like you said, the only guy averaging more than 50 in FC was Fawad and he should have been there since 2010 because he’s in the same league as Younis and above Misbah.
Haris was injured and his fitness issues prevented him from succeeding.
Akmal, less said the Better.
The guy that’s truly been under utilized is Usman S. He’s a solid solid batsman averaging 48 over 10 years —> that’s a lot of data. He should have made the team ahead of Saud. He averaged 81 at the n3 slot last season.
You can now add Kamran Ghulam to this list, as well as as Saud and Saad Ali.
Salman Ali Agha is also special because of his crazy SR of 70.

Haris was definitely unfortunate with injuries, but the other 3 would have easily been averaging 45+ right now.

 

[Farabi]

Misbah preferred Chachu over Fawad FYI let that sink in

 

[Saj]

For me, the blunder was putting all the eggs in the Azhar-Asad basket. Azhar Ali has done well but not lived up to the expectations that most had from him especially during his peak when he was averaging 47 at the top of the order. Whereas Asad Shafiq ended up being a terrible investment considering how badly his career fell off a cliff once Misbah Younis left.

Especially the Asad basket.

He was really shown up after he couldn't hide behind Misbah and Younis which he had done for several years.

 

[daytrader]

Misbah preferred Chachu over Fawad FYI let that sink in

Chachu only played one match under Misbah

 

[daytrader]

This is literally the laziest excuse given busted so many times. Under Misbah, Shoib Malik, Umer Akmal and Faisal Iqbal have also been part of the Pakistan’s test squads through 2010-2015. Babar made his debut in the middle order under Misbah’s captaincy. Also must be said Asad was also a Misbah’s punt that never really paid off. Misbah is also responsible for punting on Asad and not letting Fawad even close to the squad throughout his captaincy and kept Fawad on the bench for an entire year as coach this is coming from a Misbah fan

Again that's misplaced blame and just a dig at Misbah. He wasn't a selector or headcoach. As captain he can only play the players selected. Misbah being a non confrontational personality wasn't going to take on management when selection wasn't his job. There's many others to blame for Fawad's exclusion during this period, including the Karachi media lobby. Dont forget Asad Shafiq is also from Karachi and the lobby supported him and the likes of Khurram Manzoor over Fawad.

 

[Farabi]

Again that's misplaced blame and just a dig at Misbah. He wasn't a selector or headcoach. As captain he can only play the players selected. Misbah being a non confrontational personality wasn't going to take on management when selection wasn't his job. There's many others to blame for Fawad's exclusion during this period, including the Karachi media lobby. Dont forget Asad Shafiq is also from Karachi and the lobby supported him and the likes of Khurram Manzoor over Fawad.

If you really think Misbah had no say on who gets selected for Pakistan squad during his very successful tenure as captain, then I rest my case.
It’s no secret that media and fans have been pushing Fawad’s case since time immemorial. As time went on, Fawad’s runs kept mounting and the voices grew louder. Inzi continued to be grilled about Fawad’s exclusion but he kept “sweeping” it under the rug. Misbah’s hand was forced by a very loud media and he too dragged his feet preferring Chachu, a failed Asad and Haris. It was Haris’ injury that literally left no options.
No body is saying fawad was ignored because of his city. But questions must be asked about why it’s usually Karachi’s top performers who become the targets more often. That’s all. Trust building will start will accepting the very obvious truth.

 

[Rana]

Sad that to this day since 2017, we are yet to find a player who is as dependable as these 2.

Whilst Azhar Ali has had his moments, the only one closest to their replacement in recent times has been Fawad Alam but we know that his shelf life is limited.

The Asad Shafiq side of things in this regard seems to be a no-go.

So where do we stand, 4 years after #MISYOU ?

Might as well try the Kamran Ghulam and Saud Shaqeel combo. These two could be the way to go for a decade. But you never know with Pakistan cricket, things can go down south within days for players!

 

[Rana]

A dependable XI

Abid Ali
Azhar Ali
Kamran Ghulam
Fawad Alam
Mohammad Rizwan
Saud Shaqeel
Faheem Ashraf
Nauman Ali
Hassan Ali
Sajid Khan
Shaheen Afridi

Looks like Babar doesn’t make it, and probably replaces Abid or Azhar if Pakistan truly want to be real!

 

[hitthestump]

Misbah is already replaced by Babar, Younus Khan is replaced by Fawad Alam. If both of them fail we got Rizwan.

I agree. The Pakistan middle order looks completely settled for the next two years. They aren't performing as dependably as MisYou but that is a very hard feat to replicate.

The question to ask in the context of the thread is if we had MisYou available today would we be up at 4th in the rankings?

Personally i doubt it. I don't think we're missing them as badly as SL are missing their big guns. We're still a middling nation with MisYou or Fawad/Babar.

 

[ahmadharis1]

Fawad Alam and Usman Salahuddin should have been slotted at 4 and 5 immediately after MisYou retired

 

[Junaids]

In one sided series like the NZ 2016, Aus 2016-17 and SA 2013, it only tells us how poor the whole team was not only 2 individuals.

Don't think we would have done better without them in that period with players who have never played in those conditions before.

But Australia in 2016 was not a one-sided series.

In the First Test Pakistan lost by 39 runs, and only because they were bowled out for 142 in the First Innings with Misbah and Younis as always scoring less runs than Mohammad Amir.

In the Second Test Pakistan DECLARED in the First Innings and only lost because they failed to bat out 54 overs in the Second Innings. Another Test in which Mohammad Amir outscored Younis and Misbah.

I don’t know why people insist on inventing stories that Younis and Misbah were successful Test batsmen in their forties.

They were a pair of UAE Dead Track Specialists who failed in the following number of innings in their final SENA tours from 2012 onwards:

Younis Khan: failed in 19 innings out of 23.

Misbah: failed in 18 innings out of 21.

 

[ads101]

Think Babar will eventually become as good as them. Both Misbah and Younis really started piling on the runs late 20s/30s so Babar has time. Babar probably would have been that level earlier but shorter formats are priority in cricket these days, we hardly play tests anymore or have a big fan following in Pakistan for them.

Haris had potential to get to that status and I think would have done if not for injuries and poor fitness.

The rest I don’t think have the ability too. YK and Misbah didn’t really struggle to at all to average around 50 in domestic. The guys we have do except for Haris and Fawad, it’s mostly just one or two good seasons, mid 40 average. Fawad simply doesn’t have the technique which hurts him, but he probably would have gotten away with it more when he was younger. I think he might have averaged 50 younger but feels like one of those players who would go downhill due to age as he can’t fall back on that technique.

But really the biggest reason we can’t replace these two is that they prioritised test cricket. All the good batsmen in Pakistan prioritise shorter formats including Babar. Same with bowling too. It’s difficult to be equally good over all formats, maybe only Kohli really achieves that.

 

[Farabi]

But Australia in 2016 was not a one-sided series.

In the First Test Pakistan lost by 39 runs, and only because they were bowled out for 142 in the First Innings with Misbah and Younis as always scoring less runs than Mohammad Amir.

In the Second Test Pakistan DECLARED in the First Innings and only lost because they failed to bat out 54 overs in the Second Innings. Another Test in which Mohammad Amir outscored Younis and Misbah.

I don’t know why people insist on inventing stories that Younis and Misbah were successful Test batsmen in their forties.

They were a pair of UAE Dead Track Specialists who failed in the following number of innings in their final SENA tours from 2012 onwards:

Younis Khan: failed in 19 innings out of 23.

Misbah: failed in 18 innings out of 21.

Yup! Interesting read. Though what rarely gets mentioned is how much Pakistan’s bowling performed on the last 2 tours in Aus. Batting overall still put runs on the board most often than not, but bowling never looked like getting 20 wickets anytime during the last 2 tours in Aus.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

But Australia in 2016 was not a one-sided series.

In the First Test Pakistan lost by 39 runs, and only because they were bowled out for 142 in the First Innings with Misbah and Younis as always scoring less runs than Mohammad Amir.

In the Second Test Pakistan DECLARED in the First Innings and only lost because they failed to bat out 54 overs in the Second Innings. Another Test in which Mohammad Amir outscored Younis and Misbah.

I don’t know why people insist on inventing stories that Younis and Misbah were successful Test batsmen in their forties.

They were a pair of UAE Dead Track Specialists who failed in the following number of innings in their final SENA tours from 2012 onwards:

Younis Khan: failed in 19 innings out of 23.

Misbah: failed in 18 innings out of 21.

that 490 run chase doesn't work like that. Even if we had scored 242 instead of 142, Aus would have batted more overs to give us a similar target. The thing that we somehow found ourselves in the match wasn't due to the failure in the first innings. It was some miraculous batting that we were able to come 40 runs close to winning the game. But we didn't, so no real coulda woulda shoulda.

 

[daytrader]

I don’t know why people insist on inventing stories that Younis and Misbah were successful Test batsmen in their forties.

They were a pair of UAE Dead Track Specialists who failed in the following number of innings in their final SENA tours from 2012 onwards:

Younis Khan: failed in 19 innings out of 23.

Misbah: failed in 18 innings out of 21.

Wow really impressed with your selective use of stats! Using your criteria of matches played in SENA during this period, our best batter was Azhar averaging 42. Guess what though YK was 2nd best with an avg of 38. Misbah's 5th on the list. These numbers are not as bad as you make it seem for players in their 40s. Also there's no shame in winning at home and MisYou ensured that we made UAE a fortress hence why we reached the #1 ranking. Without those two it wouldn't have been possible. To put things in perspective, we haven't won a series in any of the SENA nations since 34 years.

 

[daytrader]

If you really think Misbah had no say on who gets selected for Pakistan squad during his very successful tenure as captain, then I rest my case.
It’s no secret that media and fans have been pushing Fawad’s case since time immemorial. As time went on, Fawad’s runs kept mounting and the voices grew louder. Inzi continued to be grilled about Fawad’s exclusion but he kept “sweeping” it under the rug. Misbah’s hand was forced by a very loud media and he too dragged his feet preferring Chachu, a failed Asad and Haris. It was Haris’ injury that literally left no options.
No body is saying fawad was ignored because of his city. But questions must be asked about why it’s usually Karachi’s top performers who become the targets more often. That’s all. Trust building will start will accepting the very obvious truth.

Again he wasn't a selector and it's unfair to solely blame him. Let me ask you a question based on the following contemporary analogy.

There are 3 renowned COVID 19 vaccines; Pfizer, Moderna and Astrazeneca. Everyone knows about the blood clot reactions that are possible with Astrazeneca. Now say your region was getting vaccinated and it was your turn. You go to the clinic and they give you an Astrazeneca jab because your government could only procure those. Hypothetically speaking, God forbid you get a blood clot reaction. Who would you blame?

A. Yourself for getting the jab
B. Your government for choosing Astrazeneca
C. Astrazeneca the manufacturers

 

[Junaids]

Wow really impressed with your selective use of stats! Using your criteria of matches played in SENA during this period, our best batter was Azhar averaging 42. Guess what though YK was 2nd best with an avg of 38. Misbah's 5th on the list. These numbers are not as bad as you make it seem for players in their 40s. Also there's no shame in winning at home and MisYou ensured that we made UAE a fortress hence why we reached the #1 ranking. Without those two it wouldn't have been possible. To put things in perspective, we haven't won a series in any of the SENA nations since 34 years.

That’s my whole point about geriatric batsmen outside Asia, which Fawad Alam and Azhar Ali are proving for me.

Younis used to maintain an average of 38 as an old man in SENA but the following way:

5 and 15
15 and 25
150 and 38

When your key batsmen are reaching 50 once in 6 innings you have a major problem.

And Misbah and Younis reached 50 just SEVEN times in their final FORTY FOUR innings in SENA.

People laugh at Umar Akmal, but his record in Australia and New Zealand in Tests was:

129 and 75
46 and 52
51 and 27
49 and 49
8 and 15

So
UMAR AKMAL
2 innings under 15
0 innings between 16 and 25
1 innings between 26 and 39
3 innings between 40 and 49
3 innings between 50 and 99
1 innings over 100

Whereas Misbah’s record against the same opposition in 2016 was:

31 and 13
4 and 5
11 and 0
18 and 38

MISBAH
5 innings under 15
0 innings between 16 and 25
2 innings between 26 and 39
0 innings between 40 and 49
0 innings between 50 and 99
0 innings over 100

And Younis against the same opposition away scored:

2 and 0
11 and 0
0 and 65
21 and 24
175 and 13

Obviously Misbah was just rubbish.

But Younis bloated his average with one big score, while his real record was:

YOUNIS
6 innings under 15
2 innings between 16 and 25
0 innings between 26 and 39
0 innings between 40 and 49
1 innings between 50 and 99
1 innings over 100

 

[Junaids]

I'm a little bit shocked by the silence of high quality posters like [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] and [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] in response to the devastating figures that I have set out relating to their final Test tours of Australia and New Zealand:

SCORES UNDER 15 - OUTRIGHT FAILURES
Umar Akmal 2 in 10 innings - 20%
Misbah 5 in 7 innings - 71%
Younis Khan 6 in 10 innings - 60%

SCORES BETWEEN 16 and 39 - NARROW FAILURES
Umar Akmal 1 in 10 innings - 10%
Misbah 2 in 7 innings - 29%
Younis Khan 2 in 10 innings - 20%

SCORES BETWEEN 40 and 49 - NARROW PASSES
Umar Akmal 3 in 10 innings - 30%
Misbah 0 in 7 innings - 0%
Younis Khan 0 in 10 innings - 0%

SCORES BETWEEN 50 and 99 - SUCCESSFUL INNINGS
Umar Akmal 3 in 10 innings - 30%
Misbah 0 in 7 innings - 0%
Younis Khan 1 in 10 innings - 10%

SCORES OVER 100 - BIG INNINGS
Umar Akmal 1 in 10 - 10%
Misbah 0 in 7 innings - 0%
Younis Khan 1 in 10 innings - 10%


FAILURE RATE:
Umar Akmal 30%
Misbah 100%
Younis Khan 80%

PASS RATE
Umar Akmal 70%
Misbah 0%
Younis Khan 20%

 

[Savak]

Lol Misbah is not being missed in any shape or form. That I can guarantee you

 

[Cric1234]

Umar Akmal has been our best test batsman in the last 5 years Saud was also a decent prospect but hasn’t been developed.

Together these two with Babar should have formed the core of the middle order with Azhar opening until retirement and Fawad being replaced aswell soon.

We don’t have the talent available currently to waste the batsmen we’ve got that’s what happened expect another transition period soon.

Unfortunately more losses will happen in SENA and we won’t be getting more tests and the popularity will continue to decline to get more tests and more viewership the team has to Improve and be capable of beating the best teams overseas not just at home.

 

[Farabi]

Again he wasn't a selector and it's unfair to solely blame him. Let me ask you a question based on the following contemporary analogy.

There are 3 renowned COVID 19 vaccines; Pfizer, Moderna and Astrazeneca. Everyone knows about the blood clot reactions that are possible with Astrazeneca. Now say your region was getting vaccinated and it was your turn. You go to the clinic and they give you an Astrazeneca jab because your government could only procure those. Hypothetically speaking, God forbid you get a blood clot reaction. Who would you blame?

A. Yourself for getting the jab
B. Your government for choosing Astrazeneca
C. Astrazeneca the manufacturers

Are you kidding me? Misbah has been the most powerful character in the last decade. He was a powerful captain, then leader in "cricket" committee, then coach/selector. He should not be allowed to walk away clean from ignoring Fawad Alam, arguably the greatest injustice of Pak cricket. Everyone knows Misbah was mostly picking his squads.
To burst your bubble, Haroon Rashid did give Fawad Alam to Misbah in 2015-2016 period. Misbah still did not pick Fawad in the 11 and picked chachu in the England series in 2016. Fawad was dropped later.
Misbah repeated the same shambolic act against Aus in 2020 as coach/selector ignoring Fawad and picking Chachu.
Haroon Rashid, himself Karachi-based, also picked Khurram Manzoor, the other ignored guy.

 

[Farabi]

Chachu only played one match under Misbah

3 matches. 1 match under Misbah the captain vs Eng in 2016, and 2 matches vs Aus under Misbah coach/selector

 

[daytrader]

Are you kidding me? Misbah has been the most powerful character in the last decade. He was a powerful captain, then leader in "cricket" committee, then coach/selector. He should not be allowed to walk away clean from ignoring Fawad Alam, arguably the greatest injustice of Pak cricket. Everyone knows Misbah was mostly picking his squads.
To burst your bubble, Haroon Rashid did give Fawad Alam to Misbah in 2015-2016 period. Misbah still did not pick Fawad in the 11 and picked chachu in the England series in 2016. Fawad was dropped later.
Misbah repeated the same shambolic act against Aus in 2020 as coach/selector ignoring Fawad and picking Chachu.
Haroon Rashid, himself Karachi-based, also picked Khurram Manzoor, the other ignored guy.

It's true that Misbah has been given different roles through the decade but that doesn't mean he was the most powerful at all times through the decade. He did well in each role he was assigned.

1. He was made captain after our most embarrassing moment in cricket history. His role was to bring stability to the dressing room and for the team to carry itself respectably - not selection politics. During his period as captain we did not have any major controversies, so full marks to him for fulfilling his role as envisioned.
2. The cricket committee's job was to review the performance of the team management. After our poor showing at the 2019 WC, we needed change and this was decided not just by Misbah but the entire committee.
3. As coach and selector he has selected Fawad and is giving him ample opportunities

 

[Saj]

I'm a little bit shocked by the silence of high quality posters like @Saj and @MenInG in response to the devastating figures that I have set out relating to their final Test tours of Australia and New Zealand:

But who really does well for Pakistan in NZ, Aus in Tests there. Very few do.

Younis and Misbah were the backbone for many years of that Test team. In fact they bailed Pakistan out of trouble more often than not whilst the other batsmen hung on to their coat tails.

 

[Saj]

Fawad Alam and Usman Salahuddin should have been slotted at 4 and 5 immediately after MisYou retired

Yes that is a fair point.

Asad was always going to struggle once the cover of Misbah and Younis was no longer there for him.

 

[Farabi]

It's true that Misbah has been given different roles through the decade but that doesn't mean he was the most powerful at all times through the decade. He did well in each role he was assigned.

1. He was made captain after our most embarrassing moment in cricket history. His role was to bring stability to the dressing room and for the team to carry itself respectably - not selection politics. During his period as captain we did not have any major controversies, so full marks to him for fulfilling his role as envisioned.
2. The cricket committee's job was to review the performance of the team management. After our poor showing at the 2019 WC, we needed change and this was decided not just by Misbah but the entire committee.
3. As coach and selector he has selected Fawad and is giving him ample opportunities

Misbah was in a position of power. There’s no doubt he did a good job as captain. I am actually his fan.
But just because Misbah was a good captain, it doesn’t mean every decision he made was right. He is also responsible for not giving Fawad the chances that he deserved, first as captain and later as coach.

 

[Farabi]

Also, don’t forget that Fawad made a come back in place of Haris in Eng because Haris pulled out last min due to Covid. Fawad was never Misbah’s first-choice 11. Fawad was very lucky that Babar got injured during NZ tour and Fawad got to play in Babar’s place. Every test was Fawad’s last and he made it count in NZ against all odds.
Then, Mohammad Wasim dropped Haris Sohail altogether creating a permanent slot for Fawad

 

[mastimasti]

Sad that to this day since 2017, we are yet to find a player who is as dependable as these 2.

Whilst Azhar Ali has had his moments, the only one closest to their replacement in recent times has been Fawad Alam but we know that his shelf life is limited.

The Asad Shafiq side of things in this regard seems to be a no-go.

So where do we stand, 4 years after #MISYOU ?

This is always interesting from an outsiders perspective because it's clear that Azhar and Asad were being built as the MisYou replacements with the hope that Babar would step up also. Yet Azhar and worse, Asad's form dropped off almost completely. What was the issue? Coaching? Management? The fact that they were also 30+?

What of all that wasted time for Fawad? Or the inability to pick someone like Usman Salahuddin into the side, a guy I have heard a lot about with consistent domestic performances but barely any chances in the international side?

Poor, unprofessional management in my book.

 

[Saj]

Some players step out of the shadows, others fall by the wayside when they are needed the most.

Sadly we didn't have players who stepped out of the shadows or we didn't pick the right players.

Poor management really.

 

[Junaids]

But who really does well for Pakistan in NZ, Aus in Tests there. Very few do.

Younis and Misbah were the backbone for many years of that Test team. In fact they bailed Pakistan out of trouble more often than not whilst the other batsmen hung on to their coat tails.

It's in black and white in the post I put above:

Umar Akmal 70% succeeded in Australia/NZ, 30% failed
Misbah 100% failed
Younis Khan 20% succeeded, 80% failed.

I would add that Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan did very nicely too.

 

[daytrader]

It's in black and white in the post I put above:

Umar Akmal 70% succeeded in Australia/NZ, 30% failed
Misbah 100% failed
Younis Khan 20% succeeded, 80% failed.

I would add that Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan did very nicely too.

Sure but even with his 70% success in Aus/NZ, he still only averages a mere 35 in tests! He's no where as good as you're making him seem and definitely not in the class of Misbah and YK, no matter how many selective stats you use

 

[Saj]

It's in black and white in the post I put above:

Umar Akmal 70% succeeded in Australia/NZ, 30% failed
Misbah 100% failed
Younis Khan 20% succeeded, 80% failed.

I would add that Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan did very nicely too.

Does that make Umar Akmal a better Test batsman than Misbah and Younis?

 

[Junaids]

Does that make Umar Akmal a better Test batsman than Misbah and Younis?

Younis Khan is the GOAT Pakistan batsman.

But Umar Akmal was a far superior Test batsman to Misbah. He played 1 Test in Asia, but averaged 36 on the basis of performances in Australia, England and New Zealand.

The term Flat Track Bully was the perfect epithet for Misbah, a mediocre batsman who could score big runs on dead tracks which nullified all except spin bowlers.

Even in Misbah’s supposedly redemptive series in England in 2016, he ended up lower down the batting averages than Sami Aslam, Azhar Ali, Younis Khan and even Asad Shafiq.

 

[Major]

Umar akmal better test batsmen than misbah and younis?

Yup i have heard it all

 

[shaz619]

Umar akmal better test batsmen than misbah and younis?

Yup i have heard it all

Misbah was good at defending the ball and playing within his extreme deficiencies

 

[Major]

I'm a little bit shocked by the silence of high quality posters like [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] and [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] in response to the devastating figures that I have set out relating to their final Test tours of Australia and New Zealand:

SCORES UNDER 15 - OUTRIGHT FAILURES
Umar Akmal 2 in 10 innings - 20%
Misbah 5 in 7 innings - 71%
Younis Khan 6 in 10 innings - 60%

SCORES BETWEEN 16 and 39 - NARROW FAILURES
Umar Akmal 1 in 10 innings - 10%
Misbah 2 in 7 innings - 29%
Younis Khan 2 in 10 innings - 20%

SCORES BETWEEN 40 and 49 - NARROW PASSES
Umar Akmal 3 in 10 innings - 30%
Misbah 0 in 7 innings - 0%
Younis Khan 0 in 10 innings - 0%

SCORES BETWEEN 50 and 99 - SUCCESSFUL INNINGS
Umar Akmal 3 in 10 innings - 30%
Misbah 0 in 7 innings - 0%
Younis Khan 1 in 10 innings - 10%

SCORES OVER 100 - BIG INNINGS
Umar Akmal 1 in 10 - 10%
Misbah 0 in 7 innings - 0%
Younis Khan 1 in 10 innings - 10%


FAILURE RATE:
Umar Akmal 30%
Misbah 100%
Younis Khan 80%

PASS RATE
Umar Akmal 70%
Misbah 0%
Younis Khan 20%

for gods sake, stop posting selective stats here.

Umar avg in Australia: 33
Umar avg in ENgland:24
Umar avg in NZ: 63
Umar Avg in UAE: 4
Umar avg in West indies: 41
Umar avg in Zimbabwe :15

Younis In aus:50
Younis in Bang:100
Younis in ENgland: 50
Younis in india:76
Younis in Pak:59
Younis in NZ:43
Younis in Sa: 32
Younis in UAE;55
Younis in SL:45
Younis in WI:22
Younis in ZIm:73

 

[Saj]

Umar Akmal was a far superior Test batsman to Misbah

I thought I had read everything regarding Pakistan cricket, but this is a new one.

 

[Cric1234]

I thought I had read everything regarding Pakistan cricket, but this is a new one.

You might have but this is close to the truth Misbah played 51 out of 75 tests in UAE and Asia Umar Akmal played 1 innings in similar conditions.

Had Misbah played more in SENA maybe 15 more let’s say his average would be 43-44 most likely and had Umar Akmal played similar matches to this he could average more and at a much better strike rate.

 

[daytrader]

You might have but this is close to the truth Misbah played 51 out of 75 tests in UAE and Asia Umar Akmal played 1 innings in similar conditions.

Had Misbah played more in SENA maybe 15 more let’s say his average would be 43-44 most likely and had Umar Akmal played similar matches to this he could average more and at a much better strike rate.

What logic is this. It's all hypothetical as there's no stats to back this. In this case we should revert to FC cricket - where Misbah averages higher, has a higher top score and % wise scored more centuries in innings played. Misbah being a better test batter is a no brainer. No amount of selective stats or what if scenarios can change that

 

[Saj]

You might have but this is close to the truth Misbah played 51 out of 75 tests in UAE and Asia Umar Akmal played 1 innings in similar conditions.

Had Misbah played more in SENA maybe 15 more let’s say his average would be 43-44 most likely and had Umar Akmal played similar matches to this he could average more and at a much better strike rate.

I don't need any stats, or any details of who played where, to know that Misbah-ul-Haq was on a different level to Umar Akmal as a Test batsman.

 

[Shazzam]

You might have but this is close to the truth Misbah played 51 out of 75 tests in UAE and Asia Umar Akmal played 1 innings in similar conditions.

Had Misbah played more in SENA maybe 15 more let’s say his average would be 43-44 most likely and had Umar Akmal played similar matches to this he could average more and at a much better strike rate.

Umar Akmal had a much higher ceiling than Misbah he just never had the brains to continue. Misbah was average batsmen that made most of his limited ability. This guy is easily replaceable where as the true Legend in Younus Khan is not.

 

[daytrader]

Umar Akmal had a much higher ceiling than Misbah he just never had the brains to continue. Misbah was average batsmen that made most of his limited ability. This guy is easily replaceable where as the true Legend in Younus Khan is not.

If his ceiling was that much higher we would see the stats in FC cricket. Misbah might be average in LOIs but he was a beast in the longer formats, Akmal doesn't even come close

 

[Cric1234]

Umar avg in Australia: 33
Umar avg in England:24
Umar avg in NZ: 63
Umar avg in West indies: 41

Misbah avg in Australia: 16
Misbah avg in England: 40
Misbah avg in NZ: 37
Misbah avg in West Indies: 64

UAE and Asia Umar never played bar 1 innings no Misbah isn’t on another level to Akmal in tests the strike rate of Akmal is far superior to Misbah.

 

[Cric1234]

What logic is this. It's all hypothetical as there's no stats to back this. In this case we should revert to FC cricket - where Misbah averages higher, has a higher top score and % wise scored more centuries in innings played. Misbah being a better test batter is a no brainer. No amount of selective stats or what if scenarios can change that

Haris and Fawad also have a better FC average than Akmal but he’s a better test batsman then them not just that Umar could’ve had the best ever average and strike rate combination in the history of Pakistan cricket in test cricket.
if you add the average and strike rate up unless somebody had a strike rate above 70 in tests in the past.

 

[Junaids]

I don't need any stats, or any details of who played where, to know that Misbah-ul-Haq was on a different level to Umar Akmal as a Test batsman.

Misbah was on a different level to Umar Akmal as a Test batsman.

Ask Shane Bond, or Mitchell Johnson.

Misbah was at a vastly INFERIOR level to Umar Akmal.

That’s why he kept being dropped in series which Umar Akmal played through (viz Third Test in Australia, 2010).

The thing is, Misbah padded his average by playing on dead bounceless wickets in the UAE and against a school-quality West Indies attack.

Whereas Umar Akmal only ever played 1 Test in Asia.

 

[daytrader]

Haris and Fawad also have a better FC average than Akmal but he’s a better test batsman then them not just that Umar could’ve had the best ever average and strike rate combination in the history of Pakistan cricket in test cricket.
if you add the average and strike rate up unless somebody had a strike rate above 70 in tests in the past.

It's test cricket not LOIs, strike rates are secondary. Primary goal is to score lots of runs and occupy the crease for a long period.

And yes Haris and Fawad are also better test batters

 

[daytrader]

Misbah was on a different level to Umar Akmal as a Test batsman.

Ask Shane Bond, or Mitchell Johnson.

Misbah was at a vastly INFERIOR level to Umar Akmal.

That’s why he kept being dropped in series which Umar Akmal played through (viz Third Test in Australia, 2010).

The thing is, Misbah padded his average by playing on dead bounceless wickets in the UAE and against a school-quality West Indies attack.

Whereas Umar Akmal only ever played 1 Test in Asia.

But both played FC cricket in Pakistan, so what's the excuse there

 

[Junaids]

But both played FC cricket in Pakistan, so what's the excuse there

Yes, what is Misbah’s excuse?

Because Umar Akmal hit centuries in the last two QEA domestic First Class finals.

 

[Shazzam]

If his ceiling was that much higher we would see the stats in FC cricket. Misbah might be average in LOIs but he was a beast in the longer formats, Akmal doesn't even come close

Anyone that knows cricket knows Umar Akmal had loads of talent that he never fully utilized due to his lack of brains. His celling was much higher than Misbah. Which is why Misbah failed to score many big daddy hundreds. I'll go as far as to say that Misbah the batsmen is overrated by some fans.