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75 years on, how is Pakistan doing?

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Saj

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75 years today since independence.

How as a nation is Pakistan doing?

Has independence served its purpose?

What's holding Pakistan back as a nation?

What are the positives and negatives of Pakistan?

How's its future looking?
 
75 years! That's a long time yet teh nation still acts 'new'. It hasn't really matured as it should.

Too busy focusing on one-upmanship with India to its own detriment
 
Look, we haven't completely failed as a nation. It's just that we have shaped our identity in the wrong way. The world thinks of us a "terrorist nation". We do not get tourism or investment in our country because most countries view us as dangerous and unstable.

It is too late now. But I wonder if after partition, Pakistan had chosen to become a secular country where all minorities would be respected, etc. Our economy would be atleast 20 times bigger, we would have tourism and investment in our country.

I'm afraid, the future looks even worse. With leaders like Imran Khan being the common man's choice. We are about to fall back into the 1980's.
 
There were ups and downs.

I think biggest achievement for Pakistan was to get nuclear weapon. It means countries may think twice before trying to mess with Pakistan. Nuke is a very good deterrent.

They did good in hockey and cricket; multiple world titles.

America's war on terror and USSR's Afghanistan invasion probably derailed Pakistan's growth a lot. TTP and Balochistan issues need to be fixed.

Alliance with China is another key highlight.
 
Pakistan's biggest achievement is that it has not collapsed in spite of all the adversities. Its a roller coaster ride for them.
 
Sher Khan said:
Look, we haven't completely failed as a nation. It's just that we have shaped our identity in the wrong way. The world thinks of us a "terrorist nation". We do not get tourism or investment in our country because most countries view us as dangerous and unstable.

It is too late now. But I wonder if after partition, Pakistan had chosen to become a secular country where all minorities would be respected, etc. Our economy would be atleast 20 times bigger, we would have tourism and investment in our country.

I'm afraid, the future looks even worse. With leaders like Imran Khan being the common man's choice. We are about to fall back into the 1980's.
Click to expand...

I think the bigger fear is that convicted criminals have been given charge of the country

But all this is temporary.

So great hopes for the future.
 
MenInG said:
I think the bigger fear is that convicted criminals have been given charge of the country

But all this is temporary.

So great hopes for the future.
Click to expand...

Except the vast bulk of its existence has been lunatics, criminals and the army. Very hard to reshape this trajectory
 
Speaking with relatives in Pakistan, they are not optimistic about the future which is very worrying.

They feel the country especially politically is heading in the wrong direction.
 
Its a failed nation and will collapse completely one day. My biggest regret was coming back and throwing away a secured life. My advice to every Pakistani would be that if you ever get a chance to run away from this crap country, take the first flight and dont look back.

The country doesnt care for its people, its not for the poor. No politician cares or understands the problem that are faced by the masses and no one is gonna fix them.

Our politicians, no matter who, dont care and just want the power. Some want attention, some want to further improve their business, others still want to stay relevant and keep on funding the life style they have got.

No one cares for the people, we are just puppets acting out for them and will be disposed of when not needed. We are only required when there is a need for the politicians.

The gap between the rich and poor is increasing and will keep on increasing. People are after the glamour life they see on tv or social media.

Our politicians haven't lived the mohalla life or know how people live. There are a few but once they get the power they dont do anything to make life better.

I have countless examples from my life here where i saw how poor or even the middle class are not even treated as human beings.

I gave examinations for a govt job few months ago, the place where these examinations take place are in govt schools. I went to a primary school, middle school and even a govt collage. What surprised me that in these schools/collages there was not even a single AC. They had old ceiling fans that ran and gave humid air in the month of may. It made me really angry that the ministry that is incharge of these schools, the politicians that made these schools all sit in AC rooms, while students who are the country's future have to live a tough life. No one cares here.

Because normal room temperature for kids in govt school is a govt cost, while politicians with no education can enjoy luxuries kids are not allowed to fulfill their needs.

If anyone of you ever lived in Islamabad, i will like to tell you the hypocrisy of the whole system.
F6 and F7 are considered as the very posh areas of Islamabad. Everyone that lives there are rich people that can afford the high living cost there. Over there, inside F6 and F7, there are Govt schools and Govt Collages for boys and Girls. A govt collage and school exists in every sector of Islamabad. Now the thing that I always think is that people belonging from the upper class or middle upper class even dont send their children to govt schools, especially people of f6 and f7, they send them to private schools/collages. So basically, these institutes are there for 2 kind of people. The first are most probably the children of domestic workers taht work in the houses of F6 and F7 and than the second kinds are the ones that live in outside areas of posh Islamabad sectors and are from middle or lower class or are from Rawalpindi. They probably have to travel all the way there to get education.

Had the govt maintained quality education in there govt schools atleast, only than maybe the posh area students would had used them aswell.

But thats the point, the difference is just increasing and both income groups are developing as separate groups in society.

its a joke of a country that has nothing to offer. Unless you are a business man, a politician, commissioned army official or a Civil Servant above 18 grade, there is nothing for you in this country
 
Congratulations to all Pakistani & Indian Ppers for 75 yrs of independence. And for all Pakistanis i wish you guys to be truly independent from all kinds of dependence you had for the first 75 years- Bristish, American, Chinese &/or IMF.
 
Saj said:
Speaking with relatives in Pakistan, they are not optimistic about the future which is very worrying.

They feel the country especially politically is heading in the wrong direction.
Click to expand...

Unless army starts behaving , no hope for the future of Pakistan .
 
In Mohammad Rizwan's words:

"We should look at ourselves first and what we're doing instead of looking towards our prime minister, MNAs, and MPAs. We need to make ourselves better."
 
Congratulations to Pakistan. I think it's beyond that stage where it will balkanize - which was a prediction in the early years after independence.

With that said, the Cold War didn't do it any favours. Coupled with the quasi-military setup it is lagging behind the rest of South Asia in several metrics. Let's see what happens in the years ahead.
 
After 75 years, proudly standing at number 140 on the scale of corruption and dishonesty, we NEVER were ONE nation.
NO ONE cares for this country.

Everyone is on their own, and everyone wants to loot and steal as much he/she can on his/her own level.
Everyone wants to accumulate, whether halal or haram, doesn't matter.

May be there are perhaps 5% honest people left?

Rest of 95% are munafiqs who make sure to fill up the mosques on Jumma prayers and they have Pakistan to rank world # 2 in Hajj attendance, but in their day to day life, you got nothing but haram khores, rishwat khores, chores, liars, cheaters, dhoka baaz, those who take away rights of others, and those who do injustice to others as if there is no God and there won't be any accountability. It's just norm of the day in a country that is supposedly created on the name of Islam.

Take a look at all the money wasted on Azaadi celebration, did ONE person even think that all this money wasted could've been donated to flood victims in Karachi? This celebration are laughable and ironic. As they say, "G@#d mein dumm nahi, hum kisi sey kumm nahi"

As I usually say, Azaadi is like a loaded gun. If you give it to a monkey, it will shoot itself in the foot.

The brutal question is, did this modern day Pakistani nation deserve freedom and Azaadi?
Absolutely not, in my opinion.


Had Qaid-e-Azam been alive today, I am sure he would be banging his head against the walls.
 
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A friend of mine has just returned from a holiday in Pakistan. He was there for 4 weeks and travelled to Karachi, Islamabad, Lahore, Multan and Faisalabad.

He spoke at length to me about his trip but his main points were the levels of corruption throughout the country, from the airport, the police, shops, government offices. In addition the dog eat dog culture where people will do anything for money and cheat anyone for money. In addition he spoke about the lack of law and order and how there was a total lack of accountability from anyone in responsible positions.
 
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Saj said:
A friend of mine has just returned from a holiday in Pakistan. He was there for 4 weeks and travelled to Karachi, Islamabad, Lahore, Multan and Faisalabad.

He spoke at length to me about his trip but his main points were the levels of corruption throughout the country, from the airport, the police, shops, government offices. In addition the dog eat dog culture where people will do anything for money and cheat anyone for money. In addition he spoke about the lack of law and order and how there was a total lack of accountability from anyone in responsible positions.
Click to expand...

Under this current imported government full of crooks, Pakistan has quickly reverted to what it was before PTI took over.

When IK came to power, I visited. I was stopped by police, asking me where I was from. I told them a tourist to see Naya Pakistan, they understood no bribe was going to be paid, so smiled and asked me to drive off.

There are a lot of issues but what Pakistan has now , even the UK, US dont, a true democratic movement where the public realise PTI are not sellouts or puppets of the elites.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Saj said:
A friend of mine has just returned from a holiday in Pakistan. He was there for 4 weeks and travelled to Karachi, Islamabad, Lahore, Multan and Faisalabad.

He spoke at length to me about his trip but his main points were the levels of corruption throughout the country, from the airport, the police, shops, government offices. In addition the dog eat dog culture where people will do anything for money and cheat anyone for money. In addition he spoke about the lack of law and order and how there was a total lack of accountability from anyone in responsible positions.
Click to expand...

KingKhanWC said:
Under this current imported government full of crooks, Pakistan has quickly reverted to what it was before PTI took over.

When IK came to power, I visited. I was stopped by police, asking me where I was from. I told them a tourist to see Naya Pakistan, they understood no bribe was going to be paid, so smiled and asked me to drive off.

There are a lot of issues but what Pakistan has now , even the UK, US dont, a true democratic movement where the public realise PTI are not sellouts or puppets of the elites.
Click to expand...

Imported Hakoomat, PDM, PTI, IK etc ,,,, these are all small fish in the pond of alligators. Rampant corrupt and dishonesty is also part of almost every third world country. So it's also bitter pill that we have swallow.

But after 75 years when your top army brass has turned loose on it's own people, then I don't think such nation deserve freedom.

As I usually say, we have proved it with 200% surety that, under 100 and billions of dollars of national debt after 75 years, and with every single institution being totally broken and corrupt to the core, and the entire country looking like a huge trash pile with no gas, power, petrol, clean drinking water, no health care system, absolutely no justice, sky rocketing inflation, explosive population growth and exponential rate of drying up resources, - THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT NEED FREEDOM!

It's in their own benefit that this country is taken over by China. This is in the best interest of 220 million people of Pakistan.
And don't worry about your Islam under the Chinese rule. 95% of you, don't have any.

And I say it again on your face - you do NOT need freedom and Azaadi. It's just not good for you. You can't handle it.
 
Those of you in the UK, tune into BBC4 now - Dangerous Borders - A journey through Pakistan and India.

Emotional viewing.
 
One thing I have noticed this independence day (through media/social media/family etc) is that people are finally starting to have a reality check about the state of Pakistan and there seem to be some real discussions going around about the true history and the current situation. Definitely a breath of fresh air from the usual propaganda about the country being a nuclear state and the people being an ‘azeem quom’. Hopefully this realization spreads and brings better things in the future. Seems like some tough times ahead though.
 
Colorblind Genius said:
Imported Hakoomat, PDM, PTI, IK etc ,,,, these are all small fish in the pond of alligators. Rampant corrupt and dishonesty is also part of almost every third world country. So it's also bitter pill that we have swallow.

But after 75 years when your top army brass has turned loose on it's own people, then I don't think such nation deserve freedom.

As I usually say, we have proved it with 200% surety that, under 100 and billions of dollars of national debt after 75 years, and with every single institution being totally broken and corrupt to the core, and the entire country looking like a huge trash pile with no gas, power, petrol, clean drinking water, no health care system, absolutely no justice, sky rocketing inflation, explosive population growth and exponential rate of drying up resources, - THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT NEED FREEDOM!

It's in their own benefit that this country is taken over by China. This is in the best interest of 220 million people of Pakistan.
And don't worry about your Islam under the Chinese rule. 95% of you, don't have any.

And I say it again on your face - you do NOT need freedom and Azaadi. It's just not good for you. You can't handle it.
Click to expand...

TBH the country has never really had freedom. It’s really just been dictatorships or sham democracies run by a small number of elites serving their own interests.
 
Gayle_Force said:
TBH the country has never really had freedom. It’s really just been dictatorships or sham democracies run by a small number of elites serving their own interests.
Click to expand...

Currently under $100 billions of debt, no body, ABSOLUTELY NO BODY, has any plan, or even the foggiest of ideas as how to turn things around and pay off this astronomical debt that is bound to a spiral decline into a bankruptcy.

Everyone is after power and/or money. NO ONE cares about the country.

We are perhaps the world’s most unthankful and dumbest herd of clowns as a nation when it comes to putting any value or worth on Freedom and independence.

Under the kanjar panna of celebration, our hypocrisy and sheer stupidity is exposed on 14th August every year.

I don’t think I have ever been more disappointed than what I see n feel as to how we have absolutely screwed it up as a nation.
 
Colorblind Genius said:
Currently under $100 billions of debt, no body, ABSOLUTELY NO BODY, has any plan, or even the foggiest of ideas as how to turn things around and pay off this astronomical debt that is bound to a spiral decline into a bankruptcy.

Everyone is after power and/or money. NO ONE cares about the country.

We are perhaps the world’s most unthankful and dumbest herd of clowns as a nation when it comes to putting any value or worth on Freedom and independence.

Under the kanjar panna of celebration, our hypocrisy and sheer stupidity is exposed on 14th August every year.

I don’t think I have ever been more disappointed than what I see n feel as to how we have absolutely screwed it up as a nation.
Click to expand...

To be honest, even America has trillions of Dollars (over 30-trillion) of debt. Almost all countries have debts.
 
sweep_shot said:
To be honest, even America has trillions of Dollars (over 30-trillion) of debt. Almost all countries have debts.
Click to expand...

America can print trillions of dollars anytime they want, and pay off ALL their debt. They have the printing machine. Did you ever stop to think about it?
 
Colorblind Genius said:
Currently under $100 billions of debt, no body, ABSOLUTELY NO BODY, has any plan, or even the foggiest of ideas as how to turn things around and pay off this astronomical debt that is bound to a spiral decline into a bankruptcy.

Everyone is after power and/or money. NO ONE cares about the country.

We are perhaps the world’s most unthankful and dumbest herd of clowns as a nation when it comes to putting any value or worth on Freedom and independence.

Under the kanjar panna of celebration, our hypocrisy and sheer stupidity is exposed on 14th August every year.

I don’t think I have ever been more disappointed than what I see n feel as to how we have absolutely screwed it up as a nation.
Click to expand...

Yep i feel your pain, Pakistan is definitely in a tough situation
 
SpiritOf1903 said:
75 years! That's a long time yet teh nation still acts 'new'. It hasn't really matured as it should.

Too busy focusing on one-upmanship with India to its own detriment
Click to expand...

Pakistan has managed to lose half its population and its most fertile land - East Pakistan.

1. Pakistan now has a GDP of $348 trillion. The former East Pakistan has a GDP of $397 trillion.
2. Pakistan has a life expectancy of 67.43. The former East Pakistan has a life expectancy of 72.87.
3. Pakistan has a literacy rate of 59.1%. The former East Pakistan has a literacy rate of 76%.

Basically, the best thing that has happened to half of Pakistan is leaving Pakistan.

Pakistan itself - the former West Pakistan - is an absolute unmitigated failure.
 
I have said it numerous times in the past over the last decade; Pakistan is a lost cause.

They are bankrupt, have went for an IMF bailout a record number of 24 times.

Their military is the cause for this, they need to live the life of luxury, educate their kids overseas and get overseas citizenships and luxury homes.

Till Pakistan becomes a country that has an army and not army that has country, this will be Pakistan's fate.

I do not see any light at the end of tunnel, the final nail in the coffin will be a Chinese controlled Pakistan which is where it seems to be heading.

Meanwhile keep selling the liberate Kashmir and Indian boogey man theory going, which will keep the citizens of Pakistan brainwashed so military can control all the finances and dictate terms to its public...

A god damn shame, that Portrait of Jinnah's back of the head is a telling image, the disappointment he would have felt, had he seen what is Pakistan today from what he envisioned.
 
I think Pakistan failed to capitalize the Digital Revolution (also known as the Third Industrial Revolution). It did great during green revolution. It was all good, in fact it hand upper hand till early 1990s. Same would have been fate of Indian economy had India too solely relied on North Indian agricultural driven economy. Indian Punjab used to be richest state and its capital Chandigarh had the highest HDI in India, today it's relinquishing in mid tier. South Indian states made immense contribution in India's success. It's not that Punjabis on both side lack ability when it comes to digital world, Hotmail inventor (sabeer bhatia), Intel Pentium chip founder (vinod dham), father of fiber optic (Narinder Singh Kapani). Punjabis have dispelled the myth of South Indian dominance of the I.T. phenomenon. Anyone interested more can read 'The Horse That Flew: How India's Silicon Gurus Spread Their Wings'. Indian government never viewed North Indians in same manner, people are ridiculed as paindoos and unparh, only good as farmers.

In Pakistan biggest concern according to me is millions of kids who are out of school, which is a ticking time bomb.
 
When you let a country be run by the people who are least qualified and fit to run it - that is clerics and soldiers - you will get ridiculously poor outcomes for your country.

Currently Pakistan's Human Development Index places it a pathetic 154th out of 189 nations in the world. It's worse than Cameroon or Zimbabwe, let alone India (131st) and Bangladesh (133rd).

Pakistan needs to separate religion from the identity and running of the country and needs to treat its Army with the contempt and disrespect that it deserves. Then the country might be able to develop and at least enter the Top 150 countries out of 189 in the world.
 
Junaids said:
When you let a country be run by the people who are least qualified and fit to run it - that is clerics and soldiers - you will get ridiculously poor outcomes for your country.

Currently Pakistan's Human Development Index places it a pathetic 154th out of 189 nations in the world. It's worse than Cameroon or Zimbabwe, let alone India (131st) and Bangladesh (133rd).

Pakistan needs to separate religion from the identity and running of the country and needs to treat its Army with the contempt and disrespect that it deserves. Then the country might be able to develop and at least enter the Top 150 countries out of 189 in the world.
Click to expand...
Loool, 'let alone' 131/133 out of 189?!.

A whopping 22/3 places higher in the lower echelons of 189
 
The biggest issue to me aside from all the other military this, corruption this, etc: it all starts at home. As a nation, we have all accepted the the ethical and moral abyss as the norm. It is the simple things that show your moral fiber. We do not do them.

Nobody thinks its their duty to keep their streets and cities clean, for example. It is considered ok to cut corners, not form a line or cut in line, dont observe fundamental laws of the society, etc. It all begins at home.
 
Stewie said:
The biggest issue to me aside from all the other military this, corruption this, etc: it all starts at home. As a nation, we have all accepted the the ethical and moral abyss as the norm. It is the simple things that show your moral fiber. We do not do them.

Nobody thinks its their duty to keep their streets and cities clean, for example. It is considered ok to cut corners, not form a line or cut in line, dont observe fundamental laws of the society, etc. It all begins at home.
Click to expand...

I think for that to happen you need rules and enforcement that apply equally to everyone regardless of stature and power. Otherwise, the ethical person will always be left behind in any society.
 
Gayle_Force said:
I think for that to happen you need rules and enforcement that apply equally to everyone regardless of stature and power. Otherwise, the ethical person will always be left behind in any society.
Click to expand...

Well that wont happen, not in Pakistan. I guess therein lies the problem. I guess we are destined for teetering on the edge of failure or about to fail, then.
 
Stewie said:
Well that wont happen, not in Pakistan. I guess therein lies the problem. I guess we are destined for teetering on the edge of failure or about to fail, then.
Click to expand...

Yep there really is no quick fix. I think the first step is for the country to finally pick a identity and direction and then create a path forward. New experiments every three - four years need to stop.
 
Gayle_Force said:
Yep there really is no quick fix. I think the first step is for the country to finally pick a identity and direction and then create a path forward. New experiments every three - four years need to stop.
Click to expand...

As we are finding out now, they are/were no experiments. Basically the military establishment pulling the strings from behind the scenes. They keep pushing and pulling different people/parties who do their bidding.
 
Stewie said:
As we are finding out now, they are/were no experiments. Basically the military establishment pulling the strings from behind the scenes. They keep pushing and pulling different people/parties who do their bidding.
Click to expand...

Would love to find out the different faces and names behind all the manuvers in Pakistan. Just need 1 whisperer who can break it down what the military's policy is and what are they trying to achieve.
 
The problem with Pakistan now is that the elites or upper middle class who control the country have their kids and or atleast 1 member of their family abroad and don't really get too bothered by the daily dramas that go on. It just does not effect them or their pockets. It is all entertainment for them. Unfortunately, it is the poor who will suffer and nothing will change until this poor class rises and kicks out the elites for good.

How Maryam Nawaz and her ilk are still in the country is beyond me. When I see her runaway from the country along with others like bilawal bhutto will I have any hope for Pakistan.
 
Stewie said:
As we are finding out now, they are/were no experiments. Basically the military establishment pulling the strings from behind the scenes. They keep pushing and pulling different people/parties who do their bidding.
Click to expand...

Establishment is the one doing experiments, Sometimes they want to make Pakistan a religious state than when that gets out of hand they force in moderation. Sometimes they feel that corruption should be taken out than they change their mind and make an under trial person PM.
 
sjahmed23 said:
Would love to find out the different faces and names behind all the manuvers in Pakistan. Just need 1 whisperer who can break it down what the military's policy is and what are they trying to achieve.
Click to expand...

Its almost always the head honcho (COAS) and the close cronies of the COAS who are in charge. They make merry, and reap significant financial benefits and govern through corrupt so called electables who also like to make merry and loot and plunder the nation. The establishment consists of all these people. The names are no secret, through each era we knew who these people were. This should not take a "whistleblower" so to speak. It goes all the way back to Zia, and then whoever were the Chiefs after he bit the big one. And through the years the rotating games with PML-N and PPP of course. Also balochistan and MQM are always in the pockets of the military as well. Whenever they want the current government dethroned, they call on these two cards to throw the balance off. Its a very tired old game now, you just have to pay attention and you can see it quite clearly.
 
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