A brace, band to ensure the bowler doesn't bend beyond 15 degrees?

[Savak]

Is there any band or brace out there which a bowler can wear under his full to half sleeves shirt to best ensure his elbow, arm doesn't bend beyond 15 degrees. I believe this will go a long way towards ensuring the bowlers are bowling within the rules.

 

[Bilal7]

This can only be implemented at the grassroots. Bowlers already have to worry about their line, length, wides, no-balls, pace, swing, seam and spin. Wearing such a brace would be one more thing they have to worry about and would be unfair on bowlers who have clean actions.

The should simply test different bowlers each month to ensure that they are all bowling cleanly. For the first such test, they should select Ashwin.

 

[Varun]

The should simply test different bowlers each month to ensure that they are all bowling cleanly. For the first such test, they should select Ashwin.

Is this because you have a particular hunch that he chucks, or just for revenge value since he's an Indian?

Don't mind if it's the latter, it's pretty natural. But pretty curious.

 

[aloo paratha]

Wouldn't make sense, how would you catch a ball?

 

[MenInG]

why penalize and hamper honest bowlers?

 

[CricFan2012]

Is this because you have a particular hunch that he chucks, or just for revenge value since he's an Indian?

Don't mind if it's the latter, it's pretty natural. But pretty curious.

If you've been on forums you'd know for sure it's the latter, Ashwin looks clean to me, he was the one that started this crackdown on chucking cheaters.

 

[Mamoon]

The should simply test different bowlers each month to ensure that they are all bowling cleanly. For the first such test, they should select Ashwin.

Once again, the umpires are only going to report bowlers who they deem suspect. They are not going to report Ashwin because a section of bitter Pakistani fans.

Secondly, the naked eye continues to prove to be a decent judge of whether a bowler is chucking or not. Majority of the bowlers that the umpires have suspended have proved to be over the limit, and if a bowler doesn't appear to anywhere close to the limit (for e.g. Ashwin), it means that he is well within the limits.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Can we please get over this obsession with Ashwin, it has nothing to do with our own issues.


If if people belive there is a conspiracy what are you gonna do about it ? It is what it is and doesnt impact us. We arent gonna play a test with India anytime soon, and Ashwin is getting worse in limited overs, so we should hope he keeps playing against us.

 

[Bilal7]

Is this because you have a particular hunch that he chucks, or just for revenge value since he's an Indian?

Don't mind if it's the latter, it's pretty natural. But pretty curious.

Once again, the umpires are only going to report bowlers who they deem suspect. They are not going to report Ashwin because a section of bitter Pakistani fans.

Secondly, the naked eye continues to prove to be a decent judge of whether a bowler is chucking or not. Majority of the bowlers that the umpires have suspended have proved to be over the limit, and if a bowler doesn't appear to anywhere close to the limit (for e.g. Ashwin), it means that he is well within the limits.

It's not even about Ashwin, I mentioned him mostly out of jest. Both of you are familiar with the long debates that went on here on the subject.

However, it should not be up to the umpires. All bowlers should be tested at least once every few years to ensure no one is slipping through the cracks. Plenty of people resent the fact that Ajmal was allowed to bowl until 2014 but to ensure that something like that does not happen again, regular tests of all international bowlers are necessary.

If a bowler looks innocent, then it is in his best interest to have it proven beyond doubt.

 

[Bilal7]

Ashwin is the only bowler you has admitted to purposely going over the 15 degrees limit, by the way. Unlike some of the other guys who were simply bowling naturally, he bent the rules knowing that it was illegal. So he has a history of being sneaky.

 

[Varun]

Ashwin is the only bowler you has admitted to purposely going over the 15 degrees limit, by the way. Unlike some of the other guys who were simply bowling naturally, he bent the rules knowing that it was illegal. So he has a history of being sneaky.

In hindsight you can say that he was following the rules of the time, and that it was for the greater good.

 

[Mamoon]

It's not even about Ashwin, I mentioned him mostly out of jest. Both of you are familiar with the long debates that went on here on the subject.

However, it should not be up to the umpires. All bowlers should be tested at least once every few years to ensure no one is slipping through the cracks. Plenty of people resent the fact that Ajmal was allowed to bowl until 2014 but to ensure that something like that does not happen again, regular tests of all international bowlers are necessary.

If a bowler looks innocent, then it is in his best interest to have it proven beyond doubt.

Why waste money on testing bowlers that don't appear to be chucking? It doesn't make any sense. The ICC is only going to test bowler who might be over the limit, and that is what the umpires are doing - they are reporting bowlers with doubtful actions.

 

[Mamoon]

The conspiracy is not going to end with Ashwin getting reported. If he is found to have a legal action after going through the process, the new conspiracy will be that the ICC does not have the power to ban India's premier spinner.

Some people will only be satisfied if Ashwin gets banned.

 

[ahmedzee]

This can only be implemented at the grassroots. Bowlers already have to worry about their line, length, wides, no-balls, pace, swing, seam and spin. Wearing such a brace would be one more thing they have to worry about and would be unfair on bowlers who have clean actions.

The should simply test different bowlers each month to ensure that they are all bowling cleanly. For the first such test, they should select Ashwin.

I actually agree with you. This pick and choose method doesn't work. Either all bowlers who enter the International circuit are tested, or no one is tested.

In the 90s, when Murli was called out as a chucker, ICC at that time tested the world's top bowlers, such a McGrath, Walsh, Wasim, etc. They were informed that someone like McGrath had a bend of more than 5 degrees. Hence why they introduced the 15 degree rule for fast bowlers and 5 degree rule for spinners.
How can we guarantee that is not the case these days?

 

[sshakir411]

Giving the umpire a danda is a better option. Smack the bowler when he chucks and hopefully the bowler won't show up for the next game or learn to bowl with a straight arm.

 

[Hasan123]

Ashwin has been playing international cricket for nearly a decade, India got rid of Ojha when he deemed to be chucking. I'm sure if Ashwin was more than 15 degrees he would have been called. PP experts can keep on crying on about him being over 15 degrees but until he's called by an umpire they have no case.

 

[Savak]

Fools have hijacked and diverted my thread. My question was that is there a small band or brace Hafeez can wear under his full sleeve shirt during a match which will help ensure that his arm, elbow does not bend beyond 15 degrees Celcius, this is the perfect solution to ensure and guarantee that he will not break the rules and that he can give us a guaranteed 10 economical overs or guaranteed 4 economical overs with a bonus wicket or two which will be immensely beneficial for the team.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Everyone will be bowling like Bumrah then. You need to bend your elbow before straightening to bowl. This cannot be implemented as you'd be restricting 99% of the bowlers.

 

[Savak]

Everyone will be bowling like Bumrah then. You need to bend your elbow before straightening to bowl. This cannot be implemented as you'd be restricting 99% of the bowlers.

This is only for Hafeez and anyone with a suspect bowling action.

 

[shaz619]

This can only be implemented at the grassroots. Bowlers already have to worry about their line, length, wides, no-balls, pace, swing, seam and spin. Wearing such a brace would be one more thing they have to worry about and would be unfair on bowlers who have clean actions.

The should simply test different bowlers each month to ensure that they are all bowling cleanly. For the first such test, they should select Ashwin.

100% agree, it would stop that HTB from intentionally chucking whenever he feels like it and then going back to bowling legally so it does't seem like he's committing a crime

 

[Chief Destroyer]

This is only for Hafeez and anyone with a suspect bowling action.

It's no different for them. They're already limited bowling legally and this would further limit elasticity. They wouldn't last two games with these restrictions.

 

[bujhee kom]

Once again, the umpires are only going to report bowlers who they deem suspect. They are not going to report Ashwin because a section of bitter Pakistani fans.

Secondly, the naked eye continues to prove to be a decent judge of whether a bowler is chucking or not. Majority of the bowlers that the umpires have suspended have proved to be over the limit, and if a bowler doesn't appear to anywhere close to the limit (for e.g. Ashwin), it means that he is well within the limits.

The extension of this logic is that as Junaid Khan has not been called, he does not chuck. Yet you seem to have a grudge against the man. I am happy to leave it to the umpires. I accept that Taskin chucked, for me the fault was obvious.

 

[Mamoon]

The extension of this logic is that as Junaid Khan has not been called, he does not chuck. Yet you seem to have a grudge against the man. I am happy to leave it to the umpires. I accept that Taskin chucked, for me the fault was obvious.

It is difficult to catch chucking pacers, and Junaid did not play much international cricket during the period when his chucking was at its peak (i.e. 2015/16). His action has improved these days, but he remains a mediocre bowler.

 

[Acricfan]

I did see an article about some college students in Pakistan, who developed an arm band which detects the angle of an arm. It is something that can be done, but implementing something like that at the international level would be a stretch.

 

[Bilal7]

I actually agree with you. This pick and choose method doesn't work. Either all bowlers who enter the International circuit are tested, or no one is tested.

In the 90s, when Murli was called out as a chucker, ICC at that time tested the world's top bowlers, such a McGrath, Walsh, Wasim, etc. They were informed that someone like McGrath had a bend of more than 5 degrees. Hence why they introduced the 15 degree rule for fast bowlers and 5 degree rule for spinners.
How can we guarantee that is not the case these days?

Exactly. It is especially concerning because Ajmal was found to be bowling legally under the old testing methods but then was alleged to be 40 degrees over the limit on the new test. How do we know that the new standards are not as unfair as the original 5 degrees one? Every bowler should be tested.

The conspiracy is not going to end with Ashwin getting reported. If he is found to have a legal action after going through the process, the new conspiracy will be that the ICC does not have the power to ban India's premier spinner.

Some people will only be satisfied if Ashwin gets banned.

Definitely not me. If Ashwin is tested and found to be legal, I'll never speak of it again. I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories, unlike you.

Why waste money on testing bowlers that don't appear to be chucking? It doesn't make any sense. The ICC is only going to test bowler who might be over the limit, and that is what the umpires are doing - they are reporting bowlers with doubtful actions.

How much money is being wasted on each test? There are enough testing facilities all over the world and even if each test is expensive, that's nothing compared to upholding the integrity of the game.

Saeed Ajmal was not called for five years and people like you were crying foul in every thread. This sudden trust in the umpires is surprising.

 

[jeetu]

4 to 6 small motion capture sensor should do the trick but it could increase the cost and delay factor.

 

[Convict]

Bowling in a brace would be really uncomfortable.

Actually what if you need to throw the ball while fielding?

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

6 months ago or somewhere there abouts, a bunch of blokes from the NED University in Karachi developed an arm bad (made of cloth with attached motion sensors) that would essentially pin point whether a bowler would be flexing his elbow above 15 degrees during the delivery stride.

Never got to know entirely what happened later on. That was a pretty neat idea and could've been improved as a feature that might make into real time international cricket. Does anyone know what might've happened to that??

 

[Mamoon]

Definitely not me. If Ashwin is tested and found to be legal, I'll never speak of it again. I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories, unlike you.

How much money is being wasted on each test? There are enough testing facilities all over the world and even if each test is expensive, that's nothing compared to upholding the integrity of the game.

Saeed Ajmal was not called for five years and people like you were crying foul in every thread. This sudden trust in the umpires is surprising.

Don't take things personally. Not everything is about you, but there are people on this forum who genuinely believe that this crackdown on chucking is a BCCI conspiracy to derail Pakistan cricket. These people will only be satisfied if Ashwin gets banned.

Secondly, once again, the ICC do not have to test every Tom, Dick and Harry because of a few bad apples. We know that there are only a few bad apples because contrary to popular belief, the human eye is very reliable in spotting blatant chuckers and those who are borderline.

The umpires have a good track-record with spotting chuckers because the majority of chuckers have been spotted and apart from one or two, every bowler that they have reported has been guilty.

The sudden trust in umpiring is not surprising because the ICC have finally upped their game when it comes to eliminating chuckers. They were lax for years, any system that allows a hideously blatant chucker like Ajmal to bowl with his old action is clearly faulty.

However, things have changed now and they have become serious about this issue. They are not going to test bowlers whose actions are not deemed suspect because a few Pakistani fans are unwilling to accept that Ajmal and Hafeez are chuckers.

The only thing that the ICC need to sort out now is to deal with people like Hafeez who have found a way to bend the system. He chucks when he wants -> gets reported -> fails the test -> gets a soft suspension -> passes the test -> starts bowling again -> and then chucks when he wants. Rinse and repeat.

Repeat offenders like him - who clearly know what they are doing - should be banned from bowling for at least 2 years. Ajmal would have done the same but unfortunately for him, he was just terrible with a legal action. However, he chucked quite often in the PSL whenever he got thrashed.

 

[Stallion__]

Doesn't sound practical. A bowler can have a legal action either bowling with a straight or bent arm. He just can't extend his elbow beyond 15 degrees. A brace has to detect the exact instance when a bowler's arm reaches the level of his shoulder in his delivery stride. From there on it can only allow the bowler to extend his arm up to 15 degrees. If such device is ever made, it will be very expensive.