Advice about moving to Pakistan

[homesick]

Lately I have had this strong infatuation with moving to Pakistan as life here seems morbid, monotonous, and pointless at times. Sure there is financial security..you eat and sleep and pay your bills..but is that all? Life in Pakistan has more flavor from what I have observed and is not as stressful or monotonous..plus what status are muslims going to hold in the U.S in the next 10 years as economy worsens and people are looking for scapegoats...any thoughts experiences?

 

[lahori]

Can you give some more background about yourself? Are you single/married/have kids etc. ? Also whether you're employed/self-employed, and what's your occupation. And finally what's your immigration status in the US or are you US citizen. Answers to these questions are fairly important in giving advice about moving to Pakistan.

ps. I'm also considering a similar move in the next few yrs.

 

[Saudi]

Lately I have had this strong infatuation with moving to Pakistan as life here seems morbid, monotonous, and pointless at times. Sure there is financial security..you eat and sleep and pay your bills..but is that all? Life in Pakistan has more flavor from what I have observed and is not as stressful or monotonous..plus what status are muslims going to hold in the U.S in the next 10 years as economy worsens and people are looking for scapegoats...any thoughts experiences?

You'll have plenty of time to ponder over the purpose of life when the electricity goes out or you are waiting in line for CNG.

But in all seriousness there are certainly places you can live in that are comparable to Western cities, and are quite secure as well. I am thinking mainly of certain localities in Islamabad and Lahore. I'd live there myself but the problem for me personally is quite frankly that salaries are not comparable at all with Western countries. Unless you're a businessman good luck in trying to maintain a luxurious lifestyle. I make more as a trainee in the Middle East than I would as a fully qualified and experienced manager in Pakistan.

 

[homesick]

Lahori..well I am married 2 kids...U.S citizen..employed..descent job..close family all here...cousins here as well..but don't feel like staying here forever...there seems to be this atmosphere of stress here and i can't quite point out what it is exactly..atmosphere of anxiety..I can stay here at my current job and retire with it and live normally..but that sound very constricted and colorless...i am in the health field...Lahori how about yourself?

 

[Runner Up]

Despite the problems Pakistan facing these days it is still the best place to live provided you have reasonable amount of money and your own home at some safe place like Bahria Town Lahore / Islamabad. Wish it was in Karachi too but anyway I am quite happy here MashaAllah. Once Pakistan is out from this war, it has a lot of potential to fix the economy issues. In case you find it difficult to understand what I am trying to say, do read my signature

 

[Garuda]

Lahori..well I am married 2 kids...U.S citizen..employed..descent job..close family all here...cousins here as well..but don't feel like staying here forever...there seems to be this atmosphere of stress here and i can't quite point out what it is exactly..atmosphere of anxiety..I can stay here at my current job and retire with it and live normally..but that sound very constricted and colorless...i am in the health field...Lahori how about yourself?

Not discouraging you against Pakistan but

reading your post (especially the bold part) I will suggest you to go on a long vacation. Come back and you will feel better.

 

[Mian Hassan]

i am planning to do same i have set up a Call centre in Pakistan now just waiting for it to make some money so I can leave the UK start a new life in Pakistan I also want the current situation to change a bit

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Not discouraging you against Pakistan but

reading your post (especially the bold part) I will suggest you to go on a long vacation. Come back and you will feel better.

This is a better suggestion . Take a long vacation in Pakistan .See how you like it before you make the big decision . We tend to romanticize things when thing back .

 

[homesick]

Yeah that's true. I do want to be in touch with the ground realities there. I have to have a secure income, ideally coming from the u.s, and whatever I am able to earn in Pakistan can be a bonus. I wouldn't want to rely on Pakistan 100% to make my income. Only If i could secure an income of $1000 dollars a month coming from the U.S, plus whatever I do in Pakistan should allow me to live very comfortably.

 

[Garuda]

Yeah that's true. I do want to be in touch with the ground realities there. I have to have a secure income, ideally coming from the u.s, and whatever I am able to earn in Pakistan can be a bonus. I wouldn't want to rely on Pakistan 100% to make my income. Only If i could secure an income of $1000 dollars a month coming from the U.S, plus whatever I do in Pakistan should allow me to live very comfortably.

First of all comfortably is a very relative term.

Your comfort will depend on your income (and previous savings) along with

1. How old are your kids and their future expenses.
2. Pakistan doesn't have a social security and hence you need to save enough for yourself and your partner (if you want to live in Pakistan forever after your retirement).
3. Healthcare in Pakistan will not be like western countries. So you may need to spend on costly private hospitals or fly abroad (God forbid if you need).
4. Looking at Pakistan's current situation, you need to calculate the risk if you want your kids to be exposed (there are kids who live in Pakistan but as a person who has an option to raise his kids in USA, you have to think from that angle).

5. last but not the least. You are homesick but you need to assess your children too. What impact it will have for them. Are they happy to move with you ? Do you think it will be good for them to complete their education in Pakistan (if they are in school/college now) ? Would they want to come back to USA once their education is over to make their career.

All of the above do not have a single answer. It will be different for different person.

Many people do move back to their native countries and have successful move. So nothing wrong in it. Just don't rush in.

 

[Khaleefa]

Yeah that's true. I do want to be in touch with the ground realities there. I have to have a secure income, ideally coming from the u.s, and whatever I am able to earn in Pakistan can be a bonus. I wouldn't want to rely on Pakistan 100% to make my income. Only If i could secure an income of $1000 dollars a month coming from the U.S, plus whatever I do in Pakistan should allow me to live very comfortably.

lol ahahhahahahahhaha

Isn't that the dream of almost every migrated desi? I used to have this dream about 8 years ago. Still get this dream once in a while. This is a phase of life we all go thru.

One thing you and I will agree for sure that "Agar apnay mulk kay halaat achay houn tou kone kambakht bahir jaata hai"?

There are certain factors to the idea of moving back to Pakistan and then every person reacts and perceives differently. In my personal opinion, living here for a longer period of time and having kids here is like "sher kay muu ko insaani khone lagnay wali baat". You find it very hard to resist.

Lemme tell you a couple of incidents,

1. There was an imam of one of the masjids in New Jersey. A really nice guy. He went to Pakistan four times and each time before leaving, he promised himself that he will not come back. Guess what? He came back all four times.

2. A close friend of mine (married with three kids) knew it was hard to move back to Pakistan but he tried it anyway. It didn't work for the first time so he came back but didn't give up. In the next try, he bought a house in Pakistan for 90 Lakhs (7 years ago that was), booked a full size int'l shipping container from here and filled it with All American furniture, latest electronics, top class kitchen appliances, big screen TVs, carpets, toys, video games, exercise machines,, I mean you name it and he had all the stuff to furnish his house). He moved back and could not live for more than a year. Sold everything and came back.

3. This is a family member. He owns several businesses in New York and I think his net worth is over $20 million. Has three grown up kids between the age 20 and 26. He went to Islamabad and bought a house for 10 corore cash. This was the biggest and the best house in that sub-division. He moved back, lived there for about a year. Then he came back only by himself and let the family stay there. The plan was, he would travel back n forth while the family will be settled in Islamabad. Only after 2 years, the kids move back as well. You talk about $1000.00 income a month from U.S? He was way a head of the game and was getting 10 times more from the U.S. That house is currently available for sale, let me know if you are interested.


I think you should count your blessings and enjoy the security of your kids here. Yes, there is no guarantee anywhere but you always look at probabilities and make wise decisions. Pakistan offers a lot of incentives but the security situation and environment is just not good enough to move back.
Your focus should be giving your kids a good balance of deeni and dunyavi education so it equips them for the future which seems quite tough for our kids, and plus this education should help them become good human beings before becoming doctors, engineers, scholars, Molanas, Hafiz Qurans or anything else.

You can also spend sometime with tableegh Jamaat. It will give you a lot of peace and will open up quite a few doors.

and finally, if you still want to move then do it sooner than later cuz once the kids grow up here, they won't settle in Pakistan.

And yeah, another dream that runs along in this phase with moving back to Pakistan is moving to Gulf or Saudi Arabia. Do u get that one too?

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

lol ahahhahahahahhaha

Isn't that the dream of almost every migrated desi? I used to have this dream about 8 years ago. Still get this dream once in a while. This is a phase of life we all go thru.

One thing you and I will agree for sure that "Agar apnay mulk kay halaat achay houn tou kone kambakht bahir jaata hai"?

There are certain factors to the idea of moving back to Pakistan and then every person reacts and perceives differently. In my personal opinion, living here for a longer period of time and having kids here is like "sher kay muu ko insaani khone lagnay wali baat". You find it very hard to resist.

Lemme tell you a couple of incidents,

1. There was an imam of one of the masjids in New Jersey. A really nice guy. He went to Pakistan four times and each time before leaving, he promised himself that he will not come back. Guess what? He came back all four times.

2. A close friend of mine (married with three kids) knew it was hard to move back to Pakistan but he tried it anyway. It didn't work for the first time so he came back but didn't give up. In the next try, he bought a house in Pakistan for 90 Lakhs (7 years ago that was), booked a full size int'l shipping container from here and filled it with All American furniture, latest electronics, top class kitchen appliances, big screen TVs, carpets, toys, video games, exercise machines,, I mean you name it and he had all the stuff to furnish his house). He moved back and could not live for more than a year. Sold everything and came back.

3. This is a family member. He owns several businesses in New York and I think his net worth is over $20 million. Has three grown up kids between the age 20 and 26. He went to Islamabad and bought a house for 10 corore cash. This was the biggest and the best house in that sub-division. He moved back, lived there for about a year. Then he came back only by himself and let the family stay there. The plan was, he would travel back n forth while the family will be settled in Islamabad. Only after 2 years, the kids move back as well. You talk about $1000.00 income a month from U.S? He was way a head of the game and was getting 10 times more from the U.S. That house is currently available for sale, let me know if you are interested.


I think you should count your blessings and enjoy the security of your kids here. Yes, there is no guarantee anywhere but you always look at probabilities and make wise decisions. Pakistan offers a lot of incentives but the security situation and environment is just not good enough to move back.
Your focus should be giving your kids a good balance of deeni and dunyavi education so it equips them for the future which seems quite tough for our kids, and plus this education should help them become good human beings before becoming doctors, engineers, scholars, Molanas, Hafiz Qurans or anything else.

You can also spend sometime with tableegh Jamaat. It will give you a lot of peace and will open up quite a few doors.

and finally, if you still want to move then do it sooner than later cuz once the kids grow up here, they won't settle in Pakistan.

And yeah, another dream that runs along in this phase with moving back to Pakistan is moving to Gulf or Saudi Arabia. Do u get that one too?

Friend of mine is in transition to do that right now .He got a job offer as an accountant . I myself am considering it but i have heard way too many stories about racism in he gulf region . Do you know anyone who has done it ? .What was their experience ?

 

[lahori]

Lahori..well I am married 2 kids...U.S citizen..employed..descent job..close family all here...cousins here as well..but don't feel like staying here forever...there seems to be this atmosphere of stress here and i can't quite point out what it is exactly..atmosphere of anxiety..I can stay here at my current job and retire with it and live normally..but that sound very constricted and colorless...i am in the health field...Lahori how about yourself?

Your situation is something I would dream of having dude. You are very lucky! My case is, I'm married , first kid on the way, both of us have no one here. Our parents, siblings, relatives , everyone is in Lahore / Islamabad. So I cannot understand what exactly is your concern to move back?

For me , the chief reason to go back is because both our parents are there, and this is the time when you want to be in close proximity in case God forbid something happens and you are there to attend to them.

Another reason is that raising children in the west is more challenging than in Pakistan. Sure in Pakistan these days, the mod squad parade will try everything to lead your kid to the wrong path, but this is 10x worse in the west, especially the US high school system.

Finally there are the little things which add up, like there is a lot more happening in Pakistan, so many activities to do, so many great places to eat, Pakistani culture, etc.

Then of course there are tons of negatives which will give you stress like you would never experience in the west. Just simple things like paying the utility bill becomes a hassle which you never could have imagined. Lack of electricity, lack of CNG, water, gas, all the basic stuff, horrendous traffic. Those kind of things add up too and in the negative bucket.

At the end of the day, you have to keep a long term mindset and ask yourself, what exactly is the single biggest reason you want to move, and can it be justified? And ask yourself what will happen if you don't move.

Reading your post, it appears you are mostly stressed and have anxiety, but can it be cured with , as someone else pointed out, a nice long family vacation? Change of lifestyle? Think about these things before making the jump.

Also you didn't mention where you are planning to move? Places like Karachi tend to be a lot more unsafe than places like Islambad and Lahore.

 

[Looney]

You will need 100 000 rupees per month to live a nice , comfortable life with kids . If you have money , Paksitan is a great place to live .

 

[AZ]

^ 1 lakh bohot kum hai Looney, that was the case a decade back not anymore.

 

[Khaleefa]

Friend of mine is in transition to do that right now .He got a job offer as an accountant . I myself am considering it but i have heard way too many stories about racism in he gulf region . Do you know anyone who has done it ? .What was their experience ?

Again, different people different experiences.

The two I know are,

1. A friend's brother completed his residency in Internal Medicine from Michigan and worked for another two years as a hospitalist in Detroit. He was on the look during this time and found a job in Riyadh. He moved with family 4 years ago, I haven't been in touch with my friend for a while so don't know what's the situation. This guy strived to uphold the religious values and was keen to move to Saudi so I assume he is still there. He was also born and raised in Qatar so I think he was well versed with living in Arab social setup.


2. The late father (May Allah bless him) of my elder brother's friend went to Saudia as Chemistry professor for a 2 year contract, and came back to U.S. after 22 years. We met him a couple of times and he said he wish if he could live there more. All of his kids were U.S. Citizens but were raised in Saudi. He just kept renewing his contract till he retired from Madina University and finally moved back to U.S.

There is another case where a friend of mine lived in Saudi as a kid. According to him racism does exist and he has heard that it has gone worse in modern day Saudi youth but then it's almost everywhere. Usually you are not bothered if you are a little patience and use common sense. I guess there is no such thing as perfect place in the world to live. There will be pros and cons, peaks and valleys, challenges and incentives no matter where you live. It's then up to you as what do you wanna gain at the expense of what?

I think the challenge is permanent residency that is almost impossible to get in Saudi. No matter what professional u r and no matter how long you live there and no matter how many of your kids are born there and perhaps no matter if you are married to a Saudi woman, you cannot get Saudi Citizenship or a permanent residency status. So you will HAVE to come back some day.

The other challenge in Saudi is the college education of kids which is usually taken care of by sending the kids to U.S. or Europe. This friend also told me that weather wise the area of "Taif" is good as it's a hill station type geography and weather remains mild.

I am sure Saudis are planning to achieve a long term goal to have all of their jobs reserbed only for Saudi citizens. They plan to have zero foreign workers in the country. Many of their policy makers have indicated this but I guess it will take quite a long time.


In my phase of dreaming, I also looked into Malaysia my second home program,

 

[Black Zero]

Move to Mississauga, ON. you wont feel home sick.

 

[Looney]

^ 1 lakh bohot kum hai Looney, that was the case a decade back not anymore.

Aap burger haiN aap ke standards bare oonchay haiN

As far as I know , 1 lakh abhi bhi acha hai middle class lifestyle ke liye , not including the rent .

 

[Looney]

Move to Mississauga, ON. you wont feel home sick.

Good advice ! Basically anywhere in GTA , you will not miss Pakistan Too many South Asians , especially in the last years , the Pakistan population has really gone up here . You will not miss the food , Nihari , kababs , tikkay , you name it .

 

[Khaleefa]

Good advice ! Basically anywhere in GTA , you will not miss Pakistan Too many South Asians , especially in the last years , the Pakistan population has really gone up here . You will not miss the food , Nihari , kababs , tikkay , you name it .

bhayya... ye Toronto waghera k jungalaat tou abhi abhi abaad huvay hain ... U.S. mein ye desi khana peena dugni tigni tadaad mein milta hai aur hur jagga milta hai. 8 maheenay ki sardi ko kia kareh aadmi GTA mein?

 

[ahmedzee]

Good advice ! Basically anywhere in GTA , you will not miss Pakistan Too many South Asians , especially in the last years , the Pakistan population has really gone up here . You will not miss the food , Nihari , kababs , tikkay , you name it .

LOL...GTA wasn't like that when I moved there, but now whenever I go there from Alberta, I feel like I am in Pakistan. LOL!!
Specially Mississauga!!!!

 

[ahmedzee]

bhayya... ye Toronto waghera k jungalaat tou abhi abhi abaad huvay hain ... U.S. mein ye desi khana peena dugni tigni tadaad mein milta hai aur hur jagga milta hai. 8 maheenay ki sardi ko kia kareh aadmi GTA mein?

8 mahine nahi ab sirf 2 mahine sardi hoti hai GTA mein...
GTA is the warmest area of Canada. Poor place didn't get winter in 2 years, until this month. lol

 

[Runner Up]

If there are no Paan ki peek on the streets / walls plastic bags with full of garbage here and there on the streets then you cannot make it feel like Pakistan

 

[Looney]

Go to Gerrard , Albion , area around Iqbal and you will find all that . My uncle , who lives in Kansas asked me what I do if I have trouble finding halal food when I `m hungry . We were in the Yonge Dundas area , so I told him , just look at this street , the main downtown area ! Every 3rd restaurant is Halal .

 

[Khaleefa]

Go to Gerrard , Albion , area around Iqbal and you will find all that . My uncle , who lives in Kansas asked me what I do if I have trouble finding halal food when I `m hungry . We were in the Yonge Dundas area , so I told him , just look at this street , the main downtown area ! Every 3rd restaurant is Halal .

Ask your uncle to visit Olive Cafe, 9510 James A Reed Rd Kansas City, MO 64134 if he hasn't been to it yet.
Their freshly cooked Shawarma, Gyro and lentil soup are pretty awesome.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

a close family member has done this , kind of like a retirement and is loving it

Alot of people move to spain or miami etc for similar reasons

 

[insaaniyat]

advice about moving to pakistan

Not discouraging you against Pakistan but

reading your post (especially the bold part) I will suggest you to go on a long vacation. Come back and you will feel better.

Lol. Good advice. Once he goes there he sure will be homesick for USA.

 

[Legend Killer]

Lol i am not sure why everyone is scaring the OP, Pakistan is not some unlivable hell like some of you are making it out to be.

Yes life in pakistan might not be as comfortable as the west but i personally know a couple of families who moved to Pakistan after living in Toronto for awhile and they settled in quite nicely there . In fact InshAllah i along with my family also plan on moving back to Pakistan after i complete my education.

 

[ahmedzee]

My dad always say one thing:

Retirement lo, Pakistan Jao, chota rakho

 

[shaz619]

I am only 21 and still have quiet a few years to go at university and i am having the same dreams as all you guys!!! the biggest reason why i want to escape the UK which is more or less similar to the USA is because i am frightened to death of bringing up my children here, although i am so grateful for the security and oppourtunity available here i wouldn't want my children to get use to the culture and environment here it really does drive one away from the deen and the core fundamentals of islam, i mean they would go to mosque and learn here and stuff but even then i think it's never enough as you would know compared to being bought up in a culture and enviroment which embraces islam in every corner you turn............

So what do you guys think? what could the alternatives be?

And @ the OP, there are many factors you will need to consider especially when you have chilldren, their education is vital and you do not want to hamper it in any shape or form.

 

[Khaleefa]

I am only 21 and still have quiet a few years to go at university and i am having the same dreams as all you guys!!! the biggest reason why i want to escape the UK which is more or less similar to the USA is because i am frightened to death of bringing up my children here, although i am so grateful for the security and oppourtunity available here i wouldn't want my children to get use to the culture and environment here it really does drive one away from the deen and the core fundamentals of islam, i mean they would go to mosque and learn here and stuff but even then i think it's never enough as you would know compared to being bought up in a culture and enviroment which embraces islam in every corner you turn............

So what do you guys think? what could the alternatives be?

And @ the OP, there are many factors you will need to consider especially when you have chilldren, their education is vital and you do not want to hamper it in any shape or form.

lol my young friend. You are in for a shocking surprise.
Last time when I visited Pakistan (2004) and looked at the TV and general "mahole" of the society I thanked God that my children are not raised here.
The situation for kids in Pakistan has changed to point that u would not want your kids be raised there. I guarantee you that raising kids with good Islamic and moral values is easier in USA then in Pakistan. Wahaan Ka mahole ab Itna change hogaya hai k u r better off staying here.

And I am talking about 2004, imagine what will it be like you are ready to move to Pakistan?
I still believe USA is the best country in world to live and raise your family with good morals. Even from Islamic prospective you can raise your kids with a good balance of both worlds so not only they become loyal and productive citizens to the United States but also good practical Muslims as well.

THAT "mahole" is long gone from Pakistan that existed when u and I left. So don't strive for it.

 

[shaz619]

lol my young friend. You are in for a shocking surprise.
Last time when I visited Pakistan (2004) and looked at the TV and general "mahole" of the society I thanked God that my children are not raised here.
The situation for kids in Pakistan has changed to point that u would not want your kids be raised there. I guarantee you that raising kids with good Islamic and moral values is easier in USA then in Pakistan. Wahaan Ka mahole ab Itna change hogaya hai k u r better off staying here.

And I am talking about 2004, imagine what will it be like you are ready to move to Pakistan?
I still believe USA is the best country in world to live and raise your family with good morals. Even from Islamic prospective you can raise your kids with a good balance of both worlds so not only they become loyal and productive citizens to the United States but also good practical Muslims as well.

THAT "mahole" is long gone from Pakistan that existed when u and I left. So don't strive for it.

Although i have always dreamt of raising a family in pakistan etc given the situation there you are right it would be best to stay in the UK instead which is where i was born and raised but if it wasn't pakistan then maybe saudi arabia or morroco or malaysia (one of the islamic countries) as one of the posters pointed out, but i here arabs are racist so i don't know about moving there and also citizenship can be hard to obtain there.

The problem here is that we may well raise our children with good islamic values etc and everything but western culture always rubs off on them and there is always a risk and i think another factor which makes me feel strongly on moving away from the west is personal experience and experiences around me which has created a negative image of the future but like you said it does not always have to be that way and i am sure of that but there is always a risk.

 

[Rizwan25]

Grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[prakash]

I still believe USA is the best country in world to live and raise your family with good morals. Even from Islamic prospective you can raise your kids with a good balance of both worlds so not only they become loyal and productive citizens to the United States but also good practical Muslims as well.

Well said. Having lived in India, Singapore and USA, I can say USA is far better place to raise your family.

FYI Thousands of Indians have gone / are going back to India because the salary in India is high and comparable to the West. This mini exodus from US to India started when the Indian salaries started moving up, abundance of IT related jobs, improving living standards. I know so many Indians (Hindus, Muslims and Christians) who moved back to India and doing very well. When the security situation changes/improves in Pakistan, I bet lot more Pakistanis will move back to Pakistan.

Regarding your itch to go back, we call it X+1 syndrome, where you postpone your decision to go back by a year, and next year you postpone again and it goes on.

 

[Khaleefa]

Well said. Having lived in India, Singapore and USA, I can say USA is far better place to raise your family.

FYI Thousands of Indians have gone / are going back to India because the salary in India is high and comparable to the West. This mini exodus from US to India started when the Indian salaries started moving up, abundance of IT related jobs, improving living standards. I know so many Indians (Hindus, Muslims and Christians) who moved back to India and doing very well. When the security situation changes/improves in Pakistan, I bet lot more Pakistanis will move back to Pakistan.

Regarding your itch to go back, we call it X+1 syndrome, where you postpone your decision to go back by a year, and next year you postpone again and it goes on.

Oh yeah, for Indians wishing to live in the west and raise their families here OR R2I is a different ball game altogether.

 

[Saqs]

It is quite amazing how closely aligned some of PPers dreams of moving back to Pakistan are to mine.

And we are all living worlds apart.

The homeland still calls.

It is a big move.

Khaleefa - your posts in this have been quite constructive and helpful.

Although for every cousin or friend of yours that came back dejected, there are probably similar stories of people moving permanently and being happy with it.

One of the 'success stories' is a cousin of mine who moved back when he was around 28 years old with a wife (no kids at the time). Moved from the States. Was born and raised in the States. Now runs a successful social housing development company in Lahore. But lives in Islamabad.

I talk to him quite often to see how he made the transition.

One thing that he said that sticks to mind is:

If you are moving from the West back to Pakistan, then don't kid yourself by trying to live anywhere besides Islamabad. If you think you can survive anywhere else, you're dreaming.

Another thought is:

What will happen in 15-20 years when your kids will want to go overseas to study etc.? (Hopefully Pak's situation by then will have improved so that is not the case), but the brain-drain might mean that you are separated from your kids when you are in your old-age and they are in the prime of their youth.

 

[Saqs]

Lately I've been thinking, that we tend to have these romanticist conceptions of certain goals in our life, that if we achieve such and such, we will be happy and at peace.

For example, if we move back to Pakistan/Saudi/Malaysia/Insert Islamic Country Here, we will be happy and at peace.

I have come to doubt this lately.

For me, I think that happiness or peace will only come from within, no matter where I am in this world.

And so this has sparked a renewed interest in Sufi teachings.

I think if we just accept everything that happens as a manifestation of the Divine Decree, and live life according to the simple rule of "doing good and forbidding evil" and keep the lofty standards of the Prophet as our benchmark, then we'll be set - no matter where we are living.

Just thinking out aloud.

 

[Khaleefa]

For me, I think that happiness or peace will only come from within, no matter where I am in this world.

And so this has sparked a renewed interest in Sufi teachings.

Naw, you don't have to brain drain yourself in Sufism shufism.

There is one golden rule that will do it if you understand and practice it.
And the way it works is, you constantly need a reminder to finally get it into mindset.
Either remind it to yourself or have your better half remind it to you and/or vice versa.
And that rule is;

"HAPPINESS IS A CHOICE"

It's your choice if u want to stay happy with what u have or if u want to keep running after happiness and never get it. IT'S YOUR CHOICE.

You may have a person who has a small house and he CHOOSES to be happy with it and you may have a person who has ten palaces but he still wants more, so he CHOOSES not to be happy with he has.

Always remember, HAPPINESS IS A CHOICE!
Remind this to yourself 10 times a day and you will be changed in a matter of days.

And that's y our prophet (saw) said, Always look at the people who are less fortunate than yourself and be thankful to Allah.

 

[Khaleefa]

Well said. Having lived in India, Singapore and USA, I can say USA is far better place to raise your family

Believe me or not, a Hindu cricket team mate and his family usually have a pot luck at our place. His wife is religiously inclined. She was telling my wife that even from a Hindu perspective she can better raise their 8 year old daughter in USA than in India itself.

 

[mahout]

ahh one of those follow your heart or mind conundrums

 

[Khaleefa]

ahh one of those follow your heart or mind conundrums

With the finding of four million neurons in your heart, modern day science proves that the heart has a brain of its own. So the new term is, follow the brain of your heart.

 

[kamz]

You'll have plenty of time to ponder over the purpose of life when the electricity goes out or you are waiting in line for CNG.

But in all seriousness there are certainly places you can live in that are comparable to Western cities, and are quite secure as well. I am thinking mainly of certain localities in Islamabad and Lahore. I'd live there myself but the problem for me personally is quite frankly that salaries are not comparable at all with Western countries. Unless you're a businessman good luck in trying to maintain a luxurious lifestyle. I make more as a trainee in the Middle East than I would as a fully qualified and experienced manager in Pakistan.

sounds like you work for one of the Big 4?

 

[LongHorn]

When someone stays for a long time in the same place, he often feels like going somewhere new, nothing wrong with that....and particularly happens to people in their late 30s/early 40s.

I would say a move back to Pakistan would be worth it only if the OP/Spouse has old parents there. In that case, you could weigh potential income/jobs in Pakistan vs your present situation.
Otherwise, I feel there is no point in going back.
Often when people visit home from the US, everything appears nice: the food is100x tastier, Eid feels like Eid, everything seems natural as opposed to scripted etc.
Living there is a totally different ball game, and i am sure the OP knows that....


As for the Gulf, my personal suggestion would be to consider it only, and only if your present job/financial situation in the US is not that great. Otherwise, the hassle of moving is often not worth it.
And lastly, its no easier to raise kids in the Gulf/Pakistan than it is in the US. There may have been a difference in the 90s/early 00s, but now you have spoilt children everywhere just as you have good children everywhere

 

[LongHorn]

Which part of US does the OP live in?
Is there a chance life feel smore monotonous because of his location? I'd say I would get bored quite easily if i lived in Houston or Cleveland or Charlotte for more than a decade

 

[Jeetu111]

Lately I have had this strong infatuation with moving to Pakistan as life here seems morbid, monotonous, and pointless at times. Sure there is financial security..you eat and sleep and pay your bills..but is that all? Life in Pakistan has more flavor from what I have observed and is not as stressful or monotonous..plus what status are muslims going to hold in the U.S in the next 10 years as economy worsens and people are looking for scapegoats...any thoughts experiences?

buddy,any particular city you have decided upon ?

 

[Garuda]

Lol. Good advice. Once he goes there he sure will be homesick for USA.

Thank you. But many of you thought that I advised him to go on long vacation to Pakistan.


Not exactly. Actually, I didn't really had Pakistan in mind. Just wanted to go some where away from work and his daily life style. This will allow a person to come out of that thiking sphere and give a fresh look. Sometimes we are just bored of our daily life and miss things which we think we could have done had we stayed somewhere else.

Sometimes when we work abroad away from our family, relatives and friends, we feel that if we were in our country we would be meeting them every now and then and would have a better social life bla bla.

But the reality sometimes bites.

When one moves back, he finds out, ppl are too busy in their life there too.

You may have earned enough to relax and enjoy your life but they are still caught up with their daily bread and butter. They won't have that much of time for you either. Even if they do, the excitement will die after few months at most.

I have returned back to India 2 times already only to come back (first time after 2 years and second time after 6 years).

Hence this time the plan is to take care of those things that didn't allow me to continue there.

 

[Jeetu111]

@ homesick : buddy,do read this thread from our cric section : http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=170530

 

[Saqs]

Re: Advice About Moving To Pakistan

Naw, you don't have to brain drain yourself in Sufism shufism.

There is one golden rule that will do it if you understand and practice it.
And the way it works is, you constantly need a reminder to finally get it into mindset.
Either remind it to yourself or have your better half remind it to you and/or vice versa.
And that rule is;

"HAPPINESS IS A CHOICE"

It's your choice if u want to stay happy with what u have or if u want to keep running after happiness and never get it. IT'S YOUR CHOICE.

You may have a person who has a small house and he CHOOSES to be happy with it and you may have a person who has ten palaces but he still wants more, so he CHOOSES not to be happy with he has.

Always remember, HAPPINESS IS A CHOICE!
Remind this to yourself 10 times a day and you will be changed in a matter of days.

And that's y our prophet (saw) said, Always look at the people who are less fortunate than yourself and be thankful to Allah.

Thats two things you have taught me in one day.

I've already started repeating Lahawlawa. I used to do this often but haven't done so recently. It feels good. Great to be feeling that inner peace again.

Although I didn't appreciate the dig at Sufism. To each his own.

 

[Khaleefa]

Thats two things you have taught me in one day.

I've already started repeating Lahawlawa. I used to do this often but haven't done so recently. It feels good. Great to be feeling that inner peace again.

Although I didn't appreciate the dig at Sufism. To each his own.

Sorry about Sufism.
In my personal opinion, if a Muslim tries to a very simple basic life by following all the Farz and Sunnah (with Patience being the biggest lesson of Sunnah) and strikes a fair balance to stay in the path of mediocrity he wouldnt need any other school of thought to attain spiritual elevation. I am not against Sufism I just think that personally I don't need it. There is already for a Muslim to worry about if he only follows all faraz and sunnah.

So far as Lahawlaw goes, make sure to recite it 500 times dailyin Ramadhan. If you start in the first roza, then by the end of 15th roza you will feel like soul is feather light. This is an extremely power kalaam.
There is a Hadeeth which interprets as, "This kalima (Lawhawla) is the cure of 99 diseases, and the lowest among them is "worry/grief" (or Gham/Fikar).

 

[homesick]

Thank you brothers and sisters for your kind words and advice. I really appreciate the insights and open hearted discussions. As for the people I know. Khaleefa and funny enough I have had thoughts about saudia as well...LOL..

I have one uncle who moved back with kids/had a nice house in CAnnt.. was there for 6-7 years didn't mind living there until the economic troubles hitting the real estate market...that was the only reason he came back..because he was not making money like before selling plots etc. His kids went to good schools and wife was happy having maids etc in the house. They were happy living there and had to come back because of income. Now his wife is stressed doing the house chores, picking/dropping kids for school and has dark circles under her eyes..when i visited them in Pakistan, she was pretty chilled out...
Another one of my brother's friends moved back with his family..he came back due to economic reasons too..not because of security or pollution or etc..his family and children are still there, but he came back because he needed more money to put into the project he started in Pakistan..he told me that if you have $1000-1500 monthly income, after having bought the house etc..you will forget about living in the U.S. He lived in the U.S for 20 years..so I can relate to him..he told me the key is money if you have it in Pakistan you are King..if you are poor in pakistan. try to get out...and by money I don't mean millions $1000-1500 monthly..given you already purchased a nice house and car..etc.. these two experiences I know first hand..

Almost everyone else I know shares my feelings. My cousins who grew up in Pakistan say the same..if they have a nice house in a town/secured place plus descent monthly income..they would move back..Saqib..yeah I too thought the same about Islamabad..I figured this is one city in which I can survive..and if the heat gets too much in Summer..head on to Mureee..In fact Islamabad is full of expatriot Pakistanis returning..All of you have valid points, but I think its unwise to not have something back home..because of regardless of how American your accent is..your will look Pakistani and it will always take you back when no one else will..

 

[Saudi]

sounds like you work for one of the Big 4?

Have interned for one in the past and 99% sure that I will get an offer this autumn. Are you in the Big 4 as well?

 

[Looney]

bhayya... ye Toronto waghera k jungalaat tou abhi abhi abaad huvay hain ... U.S. mein ye desi khana peena dugni tigni tadaad mein milta hai aur hur jagga milta hai. 8 maheenay ki sardi ko kia kareh aadmi GTA mein?

GTA maiN abadi ziada concentrated hai

 

[Looney]

Don't you have Shivsena type nut jobs to save your citizens from these kind of bad things

It`s called Taliban South Asia is incomplete without these nutjobs .

They are not very active in the cities ( yet ) , political and ethnic clashes are a bigger worry in Karachi . And then we had a problem with the Mullah government of Nawaz Sharif and Zia ul Haq but that`s over .

 

[kamz]

Have interned for one in the past and 99% sure that I will get an offer this autumn. Are you in the Big 4 as well?

worked for 6 years in EY & 2 in Deloitte, moved out into IB then

be sure you pick the right city (if you are in the UK or US) and the right sector

 

[Saudi]

worked for 6 years in EY & 2 in Deloitte, moved out into IB then

be sure you pick the right city (if you are in the UK or US) and the right sector

I'm not in the USA or UK. (Hint: You can guess where by my username )

By IB you mean Investment Banking, right? Which department were you at the Big 4 before you moved on. I'm personally going for audit most likely. Some long hours ahead of me as a trainee...

 

[kamz]

I'm not in the USA or UK. (Hint: You can guess where by my username )

By IB you mean Investment Banking, right? Which department were you at the Big 4 before you moved on. I'm personally going for audit most likely. Some long hours ahead of me as a trainee...

Yes that's right

M&A Advisory it may also be called TAS probably in your place. Started off in audit, my first 2 years of deloitte were in audit and that too in Glasgow, not that London isnt cold, but Glasgow seemed like the closest town to Arctic during those days

 

[Little Master]

I'm not in the USA or UK. (Hint: You can guess where by my username )

By IB you mean Investment Banking, right? Which department were you at the Big 4 before you moved on. I'm personally going for audit most likely. Some long hours ahead of me as a trainee...

Not worth it, heck even the pay is lousy

 

[Saudi]

Not worth it, heck even the pay is lousy

I have interned in audit before. I actually really like the work itself, the fact that you are working in new surroundings and industries every few months or so is more appealing to me than a standard office job. I'm not a money orientated person at all besides .

 

[Khaleefa]

Yes that's right

M&A Advisory it may also be called TAS probably in your place. Started off in audit, my first 2 years of deloitte were in audit and that too in Glasgow, not that London isnt cold, but Glasgow seemed like the closest town to Arctic during those days

acha beyta ..... Auper sey mullah bannay huvay ho aur under se sood ka kaam?

Ya Sheikh al Khaleefa Al Arabi Wal Murabbi wa al bawa al khajooran !! ... Haza salary al haraamun unless majbooran, wal sood al karobaarun al kafi and la mafi. lol jk yar

 

[kamz]

acha beyta ..... Auper sey mullah bannay huvay ho aur under se sood ka kaam?

Ya Sheikh al Khaleefa Al Arabi Wal Murabbi wa al bawa al khajooran !! ... Haza salary al haraamun unless majbooran, wal sood al karobaarun al kafi and la mafi. lol jk yar

hahaha baat to tumne bilkul sahih ki hai there is no just kidding about it. Lekin yeh meri kamzori hai aur mere imaan ki kamzori hai ke mein job chorta nahi Allah ki raza ke liye.

is baat se darta hoon ke I wont be able to find a job elsewhere as I havent worked in any other sector all my life.

to bas mere liye dua karo ke Allah meri jaan fauran is kaam se churwaaade

 

[rockers2012]

Well, no work is done without giving bribes and and having proper connections. If you have a liking to such culture, Pakistan is a heaven. In addtion to this, law and order is really worse than ever before so there is a safety issue as well especially if you want to settle down in Karachi.

To Khaleefa,
Fully agreed. A honest system will really shape your kids as well since there will always be a"Danda" system hovering over you or your kids' heads by living in the USA. If you break a law, you are going to pay for it. Until such a system is not put into place in Pakistan , the USA might be a good choice for you to live in even though you will always be a foreigner.

 

[homesick]

Yaar it's so hard to make an honest living when so many of the job are in the interest system..allah make it easy for you brother Kamz. I am sure it's not easy..Sood is everywhere..Rockers you might be right...jahan pay allah nay rizq lika hova hai..laikan at least have the intention...times are changing..things are not going to stay the way they are today..hawa kay badalnay mein kuch dair nahee lagtee...just look at history..plus read the hadiths and all the sings are becoming true..so when the time comes..what side do we wanna be on?

 

[kamz]

Yaar it's so hard to make an honest living when so many of the job are in the interest system..allah make it easy for you brother Kamz. I am sure it's not easy..Sood is everywhere..Rockers you might be right...jahan pay allah nay rizq lika hova hai..laikan at least have the intention...times are changing..things are not going to stay the way they are today..hawa kay badalnay mein kuch dair nahee lagtee...just look at history..plus read the hadiths and all the sings are becoming true..so when the time comes..what side do we wanna be on?

I dont want to pick sides my friend, the only side I am on is dawat waala kaam bas baaki Allah hum sab ko fitnay waale waqt se bachaye

Sahaba yeh dua dete thay ke Allah tujhe dajjal ke fitnay se bachaye, why did they give these duas???

kyunke hum kamzor imaan waale hain, aur kaheen galti se you pick the wrong side, to puri aakhirat tabaah hogayi, yahan to maut aajayegi, aur sab kuch badal jaayega, aakhirat mein to maut bhi nahi aayegi, to bhaijaan bara darr lagta hai us fitnay waale waqt se

and jazakAllah for the dua, bas yaar my mistake was that during my days of jahilliyah I was all keen to go into this line of work, aur jab Allah ne thori samaj di, I dont have any other experience that I can change my careers

may Allah make it easy for you too bro and may Allah grant you whats best for you

 

[homesick]

I am trying to decide but leaning towards Islamabad at this time. Although other cities' infrastructure is slowly getting better. Lahore and Gujranwala has descent roads now. New malls and I am sure more schools and colleges of good standards will open in the future. i am still leaning towards Islamabad for its cleaniness, security, scenery, closeness to Murree, good schools, medical care..educated people, better traffic. I still think that if you have a house paid off and a car paid off, $1500 American will give you quite a comfortable life style with maids, etc. For some 1500 might not be enough but with 1500 you can afford maids and good schools descent food given you don't have rent or mortgage to worry about. That kind of lifestyle is only available to millionaires in u.s

 

[the Great Khan]

I am trying to decide but leaning towards Islamabad at this time. Although other cities' infrastructure is slowly getting better. Lahore and Gujranwala has descent roads now. New malls and I am sure more schools and colleges of good standards will open in the future. i am still leaning towards Islamabad for its cleaniness, security, scenery, closeness to Murree, good schools, medical care..educated people, better traffic. I still think that if you have a house paid off and a car paid off, $1500 American will give you quite a comfortable life style with maids, etc. For some 1500 might not be enough but with 1500 you can afford maids and good schools descent food given you don't have rent or mortgage to worry about. That kind of lifestyle is only available to millionaires in u.s

sounds like your really serious about this. If you really are then Islamabad is the place. Just a word of advice , do you have any connections in pakistan? for example do you have any relies in the army or civil service or other places? the reason I ask is because if you dont and you get into a jam its very hard to get out of it without people who can help in some way.

do not go without a support network. Also are you gonna be new try living in a gated community first e.g fizaya, or bahria town etc..

schools are fine in islamabad and the streets are clean modern and the spring time is awesome..bijli is a pain in the next though so get a generator or some ups..

not sure about the job situation as im not well versed on this..

 

[pacesensation]

dude, pakistan is a great place. But you need to have some relatives here in pakistan so as to settle well. The best city to live in pakistan is islamabad. But the thing is that have to pay atleast 500 to 600 dollars for a nice home. Water is not a problem but fuel can be a pain.

If you want to live here comfortable you need to make atleast Rs300.00/- per month. about 3000 dollars further you should have some savings also.

I mean it wont be easy for you man, though i love my country and i am not going to leave it.
But you have to give it lot of thinking

 

[Zechariah]

This world belongs to Allah and if we are living in the west or in the middle east - Allah has blessed us with a very good life which majority of Pakistanis dont get to see.

Why would you want to move back? Are you sick and tired of your good life where you are at the moment? Sometimes we forget the blessings we get.

Yes we all love Pakistan no doubt about that but loving a place is not the only reason to move to a place. Pakistan is a great country but right now it has too many problems and its not the best place to raise a family in the current times.

I know so many people who are making millions of rupees a year who want to get out of it because they cant bear everything that is going on. I know what my family back home is going through though they are in a higher middle class. The stress level is more than what you are used to in the US under current circumstances.

Anyways make an objective decision not an impulsive one unless you have a good financial plan to survive in pakistan and are able to accept that comes along in living there.

This world belongs to Allah, live wherever you like!

 

[Fugue]

Did it work?

Lately I have had this strong infatuation with moving to Pakistan as life here seems morbid, monotonous, and pointless at times. Sure there is financial security..you eat and sleep and pay your bills..but is that all? Life in Pakistan has more flavor from what I have observed and is not as stressful or monotonous..plus what status are muslims going to hold in the U.S in the next 10 years as economy worsens and people are looking for scapegoats...any thoughts experiences?

Just came across this post while googling due to the same craving to move back to homeland. Did u move? Did it work? Kids settled? Any tips?

 

[Slog]

I think it's only realistic before you have kids. It's unfair on kids especially if they aren't just toddlers to take such a big decision putting their future in jeapordy

OPs long gone but I was kind of surprised at his reasonings. For me the major reason for moving back was wanting to be close to my family. People will stay lifestyle and whatever but it's all linked to family in the end.

 

[HussainRx8]

I think it's only realistic before you have kids. It's unfair on kids especially if they aren't just toddlers to take such a big decision putting their future in jeapordy

OPs long gone but I was kind of surprised at his reasonings. For me the major reason for moving back was wanting to be close to my family. People will stay lifestyle and whatever but it's all linked to family in the end.

How has your move been? Are you all settled now?

 

[Fugue]

Same question! Need positive stories. Making a move soon InshaAllah

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

Pakistan is the future. And exactly, life in the countries outside is monotonous, in Pakistan there is more socialism.

 

[Sufi Malang]

Just saw this thread and thought would share my story. I'm not an active poster on pp but do read alot of cricket threads regularly.

I moved back from US to Pakistan in 2005. Finished my IT degree from Canada and then worked in US for 5 years. It was like a dream come true for me as i got good job and had a very good and comfortable lifestyle for the time i lived in US. But then, there comes a time in life when you have to make important calls and big decisions. I was on H1B and the next logical step for me was to get my Green card which I would have easily got through by employer. But after spending 5 years in US, somehow there was this feeling of loneliness and monotonous life even though I was living with my family (wife and a kid) and had alot of friends from Pakistan in US. It was never going to be easy to decide whether i'm going to stay in US for long or should i move back?

Anyways, to cut the long story short, I finally made the decision that I was going back to Pakistan where my parents and other family lived and I thought and said to myself that I will def want my kids to be raised in the same environment where I was raised. Yes there were problems and stories which I used to hear from friends that People tried to go back to Pak but couldn't settle for one reason or the other. But I said to myself, you only live once and if I have to live the life i want, i should definately give it a try even if i fail. This really helped in making my decision.

Its been 11 years since I'm back in Pakistan and Alhamdulillah I can't thank Allah enough for it. I was also lucky that I had a family business (which was in very early stage by the way at that time) which I joined immediately when I came back and still doing the same and living a comfortable life mashallah.

There were a few social setbacks and that happens whenever you migrate to a new place but my wife and me adjusted pretty well and it didn't take us long. The first year after our return to Pak was tough but then everything got settled down and we also became used to of different things which we weren't when we were living in states. It always takes sometime to get settled in a new environment but one has to be a little patient. Today I'm happy that I took the decision at the right time. Had I stayed back in US in 2005, I would have gone for the green card and then the citizenship process (my two kids are US citizens as they were born in US) and that would have stopped me from thinking about moving back. Also, when you spend that much time in the west or any place, it becomes really difficult for you to comeback and the kids then also don't want to move. So all these things were in my mind and I knew I had to make a move or else i would not be able to comeback for a very long time atleast.

Yes life was different in US and there are so many good things to appreciate about that country. Americans are really nice people and they welcome you to their country with open heart. Had some really good american friends as well. But the thing for me was, that my parents were reaching a vulnerable age (both 60 plus at that time) and the thought of being so far away from them scared me. I thought life is not worth it if its spend so far away from your near and dear ones, esp your parents. And its no good if they really want to see you or need you but you stay away just for some worldy gains or your childrens future. This was the main reason but I also thought for my kids that I will give them similar environment in which I was raised so these things made it easy for me to decide.

So what helped my in my successful move was that I had this clarity in my mind and wasn't confused by the stuff which I used to hear so often. SO for anyone who wants to make such move, my advice would be to be very clear in your thoughts and don't be confused as that could lead you to make some weak decision which you won't be able to stay firm afterwards if or when the going gets tough. Good luck

 

[Sufi Malang]

One more thing, for those who want to move back, they should consider a few things beforehand. Pakistan is an emerging economy and there is alot of potential for new businesses. There is alot of scope for new entrepreneurs to start their business and flourish. Its only a matter of time before the security situation gets better and with the development of CPEC and infrastructure being built around that, there is huge opportunity for people who want to invest or start businesses in Pakistan. When I was making a move back to Pak, I had this clarity in my mind that I won't be doing any jobs because I knew I could not get the same good environment that I had when i was doing job in US so i knew i would do some business even if I didn't have the one started by my Dad which i joined later. So environment is conducive for entrepreneurs and for those who have different creative ideas as we have this 200 million people market here in Pak and there is loads of stuff that can be done to earn a decent income and living.

 

[Saqs]

Same question! Need positive stories. Making a move soon InshaAllah

Not the safest place on the planet for kids at the moment.

 

[Slog]

Not the safest place on the planet for kids at the moment.

disagree.

 

[Saqs]

disagree.

So you think it is the safest place on the planet for kids at the moment?

Good to know.

 

[Fugue]

We live in UK. There are news of stabbings, killings, rapes, all over the local newspapers but never on BBC or mainstream media. The problem is, Pakistan every gali muhallay ka jhagra, every family rivalry is breaking news. The world as a whole is an unsafe place. All is not well in the West, and all is not rotten back home. The monotony, the disconnect, the teenage challenges, the problems of identity crisis with the second generations, the lack of purpose of life, the materialism, and the list goes on. France, belgium, US - every where is unsafe. Pakistan has its own challenges. But the positives are nowhere to be found.

 

[shah_1]

Same question! Need positive stories. Making a move soon InshaAllah

What are your plans here in Pakistan?

 

[Fugue]

Thankyou sufi. Your reply is really uplifting. The problem is that positive stories don't get a lot of attention but everyone would tell stories about people returning to the west after trying to settle in Pakistan and failing. Many thanks!!