After the Clash: The Way Forward for India

[ElRaja]

So, we are reaching the ending phases of this engagement in the recent clashes. While they still have enough sparking embers to catch fire again, we can assume there are significant incentives in place for both nations to avoid material escalation for the foreseeable future.

in light of the recent events in which India has come out worse for wear in recent clashes due to the aerial dogfights which brought india significant bad press, the total failure of their foreign policy with no country buying their narrative, mixed results in the ground attacks from both countries, and the significant boost to Chinese tech's image on the global stage.

So now, what does India do? It has lost considerable leverage as it was previously seen as a balancing power to China. The US pro-China tilt a day after India signed the ceasefire says everything. The US does not believe it has a credible ally in the region who can challenge China.

How does India rebuild its image on the global stage, how does it redevelop its diplomatic influence, and most importantly, what ideological path does the country continue to follow? I have said this in the past: Modi's extremism bears significant resemblance to Zia's extremism, which set Pakistan back decades. Does India continue to choose to go down the path of extremism, or is it time for a reset to its secular moderate roots?

India will have a lot of soul searching to do, would be interesting to see what our Pakistani and indian posters think short and long term fixes are, and how they differ.

 

[emranabbas]

India just need to put their head down and move forward, i think they have learnt their lesson not to bully neighbouring countries or else they will be humiliated.

And they have also learnt no matter how big the population is or the area they are nowhere near the likes of USA and China.

 

[Suleiman]

Take their ball and go home before they score another own goal.

Also get used to the fact that you need some level of irrefutable proof before trying to assault another country and expecting rest of the world to follow along. Otherwise they can get used to baizti after baizti.

 

[RexRex]

From India's POV, there's only one thing they need to do - invest tons of money into a top-notch security network in Kashmir and at the LOC.

Just a month ago, tourism was booming in Kashmir and the locals were happy. Now it will take years to recover.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The way forward is for India to get a decent government which aligns with its neighbours to achieve huge rapid development for everyone.

BJP is merely politics by divide and hate as echoed my Modis speech earlier . Hes told the world this war is paused , ongoing not realising the damage to investments, tourism etc. It doesn't matter who you are, a perpetual state of conflict and war will keep you down or bring you down as seen happen to many greater empires and powerful civilisations.

India is mimicking Israel in its behaviour but it's in a different scenario, the iron dome and the besr anti missile system cannot stop the Houthi missiles, india has little chance to avoid mutual destruction thinking it can do the same .

It's a nation in confusion and turmoil right now but can use this as an opportunity to change if the politicians care for the people .

The more likely way forward by india will be too bring in a new even more extreme leader in Yogi , who will try his hand with a war against the muslims esp those in green. Modi is done now ...hes ready to walk off in the sunset holding hands with buddies .

 

[KingKhanWC]

From India's POV, there's only one thing they need to do - invest tons of money into a top-notch security network in Kashmir and at the LOC.

Just a month ago, tourism was booming in Kashmir and the locals were happy. Now it will take years to recover.

The one thing should be catching the perpetrators ? Nobody is coming if they are still roaming like Chinese 10g

 

[HalBass9]

From India's POV, there's only one thing they need to do - invest tons of money into a top-notch security network in Kashmir and at the LOC.

Just a month ago, tourism was booming in Kashmir and the locals were happy. Now it will take years to recover.

Probably the dumbest option if India continues supporting a proxy war in Pakistan.

But most Indians will fail to understand that, because they genuinely believe India couldn’t and wouldn’t ever back a proxy war in Pakistan or Bangladesh.

 

[HalBass9]

Start by not isolating itself in the region.

 

[kingusama92]

Some may not want to hear it but the best way forward has always been to nurture economic development with Pakistan and stabilize the region. Build that dependency and get Pakistan invested into those projects between the two countries.

This would lead to actual results.

If India's claims are accepted at face value, Pakistan itself would begin to clean up things to preserve that economic growth. You hear statements like the best way is to economically crush Pakistan but that will become a self-fulfilling prophecy as it would increase instability in a neighbour that's always going to be there.

The current strategy itself is unrealistic. You can't just start firing across the border every time. Pakistan will become even more seasoned against these operations (the Chinese are 100% making them an extension of their strategy) and the international community has shown it doesn't care enough to provide additional support.

Imagine Pakistan adopts a copy-cat strategy the next time an attack happens within its borders. This is going to push both populations into a constant state of war-like conditions with no results to show for it.

Unfortunately, I think the Modi government is too deep into its strategy to change now.

 

[finalfantasy7]

From India's POV, there's only one thing they need to do - invest tons of money into a top-notch security network in Kashmir and at the LOC.

Just a month ago, tourism was booming in Kashmir and the locals were happy. Now it will take years to recover.

I speak to a uni student here in UK - studying journalism, hes from Sriniggar, he has never been happy nor does he know anyone in / around Sriniggar who is.

Hes constantly complaing about how corrupt the indian police / army is, how they are just accepting bribes from Hindus only to move into Sriniggar - aka, identical to israeli moving into Palestine west bank

 

[finalfantasy7]

Probably the dumbest option if India continues supporting a proxy war in Pakistan.

But most Indians will fail to understand that, because they genuinely believe India couldn’t and wouldn’t ever back a proxy war in Pakistan or Bangladesh.

well thr best friends with the taliban, since thr last meeting around 6 weeks ago, cant wait to hear from USA and the west regarding thr relationship, especially USA considering they admit india has supported many terrorist attacks in pakistan

 

[finalfantasy7]

Start by not isolating itself in the region.

British pakistanis and bengalis should keep highlighting Sheikh Hasina / tulip siddique - case to be looked into with fine detail, everything revolved around the corrupt BJP

 

[Vikram1989]

Some may not want to hear it but the best way forward has always been to nurture economic development with Pakistan and stabilize the region. Build that dependency and get Pakistan invested into those projects between the two countries.


Unfortunately, I think the Modi government is too deep into its strategy to change now.

Am not sure about economical benefits. As army gets all its importance and power in the name of India, how much economic benefit will actually help them its comparison of profits from kashmir with joint Indian co operation vs existing business. So unless India gets very good (another 10 percent of gdp or 5 trillion economy) , India can't beat the existing proce i believe.Even after though, sub continental leaders are power hungry morons.so i don't want to bet after that too.Now India may not get a different path but definitely there will be a new leader after next elections. So definitely kind of reset to an extent will happen.

 

[BouncerGuy]

India needs to improve their security and intelligence and stop blaming Pakistan for every little cracker that goes off in India or Kashmir.

They need to work on their shortcomings instead of trying to hide their failure from inside and start blaming others.

 

[psyoptica]

From India's POV, there's only one thing they need to do - invest tons of money into a top-notch security network in Kashmir and at the LOC.

Just a month ago, tourism was booming in Kashmir and the locals were happy. Now it will take years to recover.

Give up Kashmir. It will hurt for a short while but India will win in the long run

the fight over Kashmir is really stupid

 

[psyoptica]

India and Pakistan are they only 2 countries in the world in which both the state and the people hate each other - india by choice and pakistan due to its military dictatorship. Imagine how peaceful this region would become if there were no hostility. Both countries could redirect funds to the development and growth rather than spend heftily on security.

 

[Savak]

Getting rid of Modi and his poisonous BJP Hindutva agenda will be a start. Respecting your minorities and neighbours and not interfering in their internal affairs will be the next. Third will be to stop this we are richer than you arrogant mindset response to every factual argument when other countries are ten times richer and do not behave like this with third world countries, do not equate the ability to buy world class players in the IPL from all over the world at significantly above market prices as a sign of actually being loved and respected by the same people.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

On a local level - Should desist from the hate filled rhetoric and Pakistani bashing. It will help recalibrate their population.

I saw a white YouTube blogger who visited both countries and contrasted the attitudes between North Indian Hindus and Pakistanis.

Indians are becoming hate filled but will only consume themselves in this rage. When you make you countries whole growth strategy as a comparison with Pakistan then it will only radicialise people.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Saw a short clip of Modi’s address, I don’t think India is making any progress in this aspect any time soon.

What an absolute buffoon, and the people who vote for him are even bigger buffoons.

 

[daytrader]

Hyderabad's Karachi Bakery vandalised by BJP activists amid heightened India-Pak tensions

Just days prior, the bakery's outlet in Visakhapatnam, Andhra Pradesh, faced similar protests, highlighting a troubling pattern amid India-Pakistan tensions.

Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/india/...ts-amid-heightened-india-pak-tensions-3535603

 

[daytrader]

Hyderabad's Karachi Bakery vandalised by BJP activists amid heightened India-Pak tensions

Just days prior, the bakery's outlet in Visakhapatnam, Andhra Pradesh, faced similar protests, highlighting a troubling pattern amid India-Pakistan tensions.

Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/india/...ts-amid-heightened-india-pak-tensions-3535603

The only way forward India knows is to oppress it's Muslim minority. The war has fueled that rhetoric further

 

[BouncerGuy]

Trump's mediation offer on Kashmir puts India in a tight spot

For decades, if there's one thing that's been a taboo in the Indian foreign ministry, it is third-party mediation - particularly in the long-running dispute with Pakistan over Kashmir.

Those in the know, then, are not surprised that US President Donald Trump - known for his unorthodox diplomacy - has touched a raw nerve in Delhi.

On Saturday, he took to social media to announce that India and Pakistan - after four tense days of cross-border clashes - had agreed to a "full and immediate ceasefire", brokered by the US.

Later, in another post he said: "I will work with you both to see if, after a thousand years, a solution can be arrived at, concerning Kashmir."

The Kashmir dispute dates back to 1947, when India got independence from British rule and was partitioned to create Pakistan. Both neighbours claim the Kashmir region in whole, but administer it only in part.

Several rounds of bilateral talks over the decades have not yielded any resolution. India treats Kashmir as an integral part of its territory and rules out any negotiation, particularly through a third party.

The latest flare-up began after India carried out air strikes on what it called terrorist infrastructure inside Pakistan in the aftermath of the attack on tourists in Indian-administered Kashmir last month, killing 26 people, mainly tourists.

India blames Pakistan of involvement in the incident, a charge denied by Islamabad.

Trump's intervention came as fighting between the two nuclear-armed rivals was threatening to spiral into a full-blown conflict.

The two sides were using fighter jets, missiles and drones and said they were targeting each other's military installations, mainly in the border areas.

While US mediators, alongside diplomatic backchannels, prevented a bigger conflagration, President Trump's offer has put Delhi in a spot.

"Obviously, it would not be welcome by the Indian side. It goes against our stated position for many years," Shyam Saran, a former Indian foreign secretary, tells the BBC.

Islamabad, on the other hand, has welcomed Trump's comments.

"We also appreciate President Trump's expressed willingness to support efforts aimed at the resolution of the Jammu and Kashmir dispute - a longstanding issue that has serious implications for peace and security in South Asia and beyond," a foreign ministry statement said..

Delhi's position on Kashmir has hardened, especially after it withdrew the special status of Jammu and Kashmir in 2019, triggering widespread protests in Kashmir.

President Trump's recent comments have irked many Indians, who see this as an attempt to "internationalise" the Kashmir dispute.

The main opposition Congress party wanted an explanation from the government and an all-party meeting on the "ceasefire announcements made from Washington DC first".

"Have we opened the doors to third-party mediation? The Indian National Congress would like to ask if diplomatic channels between India and Pakistan are being reopened," said the Congress party spokesman Jairam Ramesh.

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio's statement announcing the ceasefire also said that the two countries have also agreed "to start talks on a broad set of issues at a neutral site". This has caught the Indians by surprise.

Delhi has refused to hold discussions with Islamabad, accusing its neighbour of supporting what it calls cross-border terrorism.

Historically, India has opposed any third-party mediation, quoting an agreement signed in 1972 after a war between the two countries a year earlier. As per the Simla agreement signed by the country's leaders, they "resolved to settle their differences by peaceful means through bilateral negotiations".

Indian officials also argue that even when they reach an understanding with a civilian government in Pakistan, the country's powerful military launched operations undermining those deals. They point to the Kargil war in 1999, when another conflict between the two countries began after a group of Pakistan-backed militants occupied strategic areas in Indian-administered Kashmir.

The conflict took place months after the then Indian and Pakistani prime ministers agreed to resolve issues through bilateral negotiations and refrain from interfering in each other's internal matters.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government has not formally responded to President Trump's offer to mediate.

But Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar said: "India has consistently maintained a firm and uncompromising stance against terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. It will continue to do so."

It is being seen as an indication that India may not be restarting direct bilateral talks soon.

The view from Pakistan is different.

"Pakistan has always wanted third-party mediation in the Kashmir issue in the absence of mutual trust between the two countries," Imtiaz Gul, the executive director of Centre for Research and Security Studies in Islamabad, tells the BBC.

"Now a superpower is willing to stick its neck out. Pakistan will see this as a moral victory," Mr Gul says.

Pakistani strategic experts like Syed Muhammad Ali argue it is because of India's consistent refusal to engage with Pakistan that the international community should step in to avoid any future conflict.

"Kashmir is one of the most critical issues for the international community. The recent rapid escalation proves that the sabre-rattling can go out of hand," Mr Ali says.

India's assertive diplomacy, particularly since Modi took over in 2014, has been seen as a sign of its confidence as a rising global economic power.

But it will have to pull off a tough balancing act, to stave off Trump's advances.

The US has courted India in recent years as a bulwark against an increasingly assertive China. India is a key member of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue group (Quad), along with the US, Australia and Japan, that was formed to counter Chinese expansionism in the Indo-Pacific.

In recent decades, Washington has also sold modern transport planes, helicopters and other military equipment to Delhi, which is keen to modernise its 1.4 million strong military, that relies heavily on Russian weaponry.

The previous American administrations were aware of India's sensitivities towards the Kashmir issue and largely stayed away from interfering with it. But with Trump, there's a question mark over whether that position still holds.

The US is the largest trading partner of India with bilateral trade reaching about $130bn (£98bn) in 2024. Modi's government is currently negotiating a trade deal with Washington to avoid tariffs.

Delhi will have to walk a fine line. It will be averse to taking up Trump's offer to mediate, or see the US-brokered ceasefire, or "understanding" as it calls it, going beyond the current military tensions. But it's also keen to have a favourable trading relationship with the US.

Any attempt to broaden the talks - on contentious bilateral issues like the now suspended river water-sharing treaty or the status of Kashmir - will invite strong criticism at the domestic level, a trap that Modi is well aware of.

BBC

 

[Kriketer]

Next time there is any terrorist attack in Pakistan, just drop missiles on their RSS Hindutva mandirs where these fanatics meet to do pooja pat and drop missiles on army camps. Make it a norm, and if it leads to a war then so be it, they ll get humiliated in wars knowing their capabilities and regardless nukes won't ever be used

 

[amax]

With active tensions along all its borders being new normal, India is gradually moving toward becoming a security- state, where the military is likely to play an increasingly prominent role. I believe this shift will begin with the armed forces completely sidelining "lazy/incpmpetant/corrupt" civilian bureaucracy in its modernization initiatives .


Pakistan, on the other hand, has lot more to reflect and worry on. We cannot just rely solely on wartime jaza or battle-hardeness —no matter how admirable those traits are , nations are not build on that.

 

[IAJ]

I have no doubt that both India and Pakistan could have been superpowers in this region if it weren't for these conflicts. Many factors play a role in this situation. The biggest challenge between these two countries is the lack of mutual trust. I don't think either of them trusts the other, and both are constantly afraid of being betrayed. This trust takes decades to build and only hours to ruin.

India is already a global leader in the IT world. I am confident that if Pakistan had also had the right priorities over the years, it would be in a similar position. In Pakistan, the establishment has been in control since the beginning, and many believe it has been a significant obstacle to the country's development. They have maintained security, the education system, poverty, politicians, and general welfare at a certain level, ensuring things don't get out of their control. If all agencies had adhered to their designated roles, we could have seen a different Pakistan today, and it is still not too late for that.

As for India, they have had very good development. Although India is a democratic country, this far-right government has held them back. India speaks of a secular system, but just listen to the speeches of BJP politicians and, not least, Modi's speech yesterday—everything revolves around Hinduism. I wonder how Sikhs, Muslims, and other minorities feel about this?

 

[Savak]

If Trump can stand up to Netanyahu and put Israel, Netanyahu in his place, Modi and India is easy work.

 

[Devadwal]

The one thing should be catching the perpetrators ? Nobody is coming if they are still roaming like Chinese 10g

As I speak Three terrorist are trapped in the shopian including 2 Foreigners , soon you'll get a good news.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Bharat has come out super proud & victorious in the recent stand off with Pakistan. It showed the world that it has the will and capability to attack deep inside a so called nuclear powered nation after a terrorist incident in its territory from their side. During the engagement, Bharat showed its offense and defense capabilities.

At the offensive end Bharat was able to make deep and impactful strikes at strategic locations inside Pakistan while at the defensive end they were able to strike down almost all drones and small missiles Pakistan threw at it.

Only controversial aspect of our handling has been the media coverage and narrative shaping for world media where we were a day or two late at sharing our side to the whole world. But whenever we did, we were able to present a much much more professional looking and fact based side of ours. In hindsight, many of Pakistan’s immediate lies to the world will get exposed while our fact based narration of the whole situation will gain considerable ground over time so in the long run we are winning this battle also.

What lies ahead :-

For Bharat

• A strong and proud policy of hitting Pakistan whenever there will be another terrorist incident in our country with their backing. This is the message it’s given to the whole world and it’s quite a statement
• Pakistan’s nuclear bluff has been called. In 2019 and now in 2025, we successfully struck deep inside Pakistan and this will continue. Nukes are no more able to protect Pakistan from Indian missiles. Significant
• Bharat’s indigenous defense capabilities shined during the battle. More of this will continue and more of exports will follow.
• Bharat continues to grow as one of the strongest economies in the world
• Bharat has solidified its position has the undisputed military force in the region with China a close second, followed by Iran at #3

For Pakistan

• Suffered nearly 4 billion USD in the war after begging for 1 billion USD loan from IMF to sustain its economy. So more of the begging will continue.
• Pakistan has stoped making any attempts to hide its role in supporting terrorism in the region so next step is going to be to try and get more Islamic nations on board to support its Islamic jihad narrative as an excuse for terrorism finding.
• Continues to remain a failed nation.
• Continues to remain a military dictatorship
• Lies, denial and deceit continue to remain national policy
• Pakistanis all over the world continue to call themselves Indians for a better reception from foreigners
• Pakistanis cricketers and artists continue to cry at night for losing the opportunity to work in India and make a lot more money
• On Pakpassion, 20 threads to be created every day to support a false narrative about them having any upper hand and India getting embarrassed, a nice little bubble for all of these mostly young men who are too ashamed to admit the reality while the rest of the world goes on as usual with India being the shining and growing major nation of the world and Pakistan remaining the same failed and irrelevant nation it’s been for ages. Not a single post on this forum changes that reality doesn’t matter how hard you try to build an alternate narrative which is funny as hell.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The way forward is for India to get a decent government which aligns with its neighbours to achieve huge rapid development for everyone.

BJP is merely politics by divide and hate as echoed my Modis speech earlier . Hes told the world this war is paused , ongoing not realising the damage to investments, tourism etc. It doesn't matter who you are, a perpetual state of conflict and war will keep you down or bring you down as seen happen to many greater empires and powerful civilisations.

India is mimicking Israel in its behaviour but it's in a different scenario, the iron dome and the besr anti missile system cannot stop the Houthi missiles, india has little chance to avoid mutual destruction thinking it can do the same .

It's a nation in confusion and turmoil right now but can use this as an opportunity to change if the politicians care for the people .

The more likely way forward by india will be too bring in a new even more extreme leader in Yogi , who will try his hand with a war against the muslims esp those in green. Modi is done now ...hes ready to walk off in the sunset holding hands with buddies .

This is the only way. Indians in general are so desperate to believe in a strongman leader, they have latched onto the BJP as some sort of answer to whatever internal issues they have with their own belief system. This has led to a mixing of mythology with politics, and while it might have given some a self esteem boost, the world runs on cold hard politics.

Israel is on a downward spiral, it's not a great model to latch onto. Americans are getting fed up of subsidising their warmongering in the middle east. India needs to look at it's own backyard and figure out how to align with the direction Asia is headed.

 

[kingusama92]

Am not sure about economical benefits. As army gets all its importance and power in the name of India, how much economic benefit will actually help them its comparison of profits from kashmir with joint Indian co operation vs existing business. So unless India gets very good (another 10 percent of gdp or 5 trillion economy) , India can't beat the existing proce i believe.Even after though, sub continental leaders are power hungry morons.so i don't want to bet after that too.Now India may not get a different path but definitely there will be a new leader after next elections. So definitely kind of reset to an extent will happen.

India needs a new perspective on this.

I just don't know what they've solved with their current strategy. It doesn't make sense.

You're right a new leader will eventually reset things and that's what's needed now. A new voice is mandatory to rebuild trust or to at least restructure the relationship. Nothing wrong with being firm and confident as a nation but aggression to this extent never works unless you can outright dominate the other side into submission.

The Pakistan army's power and importance will only magnify if India is a constant threat launching missiles across the border. After all, who else is going to defend the nation? And as I said, not only that but they might also get adventurous in using the same strategy on India.

Is that really what India wants? No way can a growing economy with major long-term economic goals desire this. Last week has shown that once a conflict starts, you can't control anything. It's the most unstable place to be in as a leader because so many things are happening at once in such a high-stakes situation. It's almost like rolling the dice when it's two relatively strong militaries that can escalate well beyond what was planned.

The best long game would have been and still is to bolster economic development with Pakistan. Give them a taste of your growth and use it as leverage to work on things that are important to your nation. It's the only way.

Doing stuff like Operation Sindoor in such a volatile region multiple times is going to lead to disaster eventually. One wrong move or one misunderstanding during a conflict and this will turn into a major tragedy on both sides of the border.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India needs a new perspective on this.

I just don't know what they've solved with their current strategy. It doesn't make sense.

You're right a new leader will eventually reset things and that's what's needed now. A new voice is mandatory to rebuild trust or to at least restructure the relationship. Nothing wrong with being firm and confident as a nation but aggression to this extent never works unless you can outright dominate the other side into submission.

The Pakistan army's power and importance will only magnify if India is a constant threat launching missiles across the border. After all, who else is going to defend the nation? And as I said, not only that but they might also get adventurous in using the same strategy on India.

Is that really what India wants? No way can a growing economy with major long-term economic goals desire this. Last week has shown that once a conflict starts, you can't control anything. It's the most unstable place to be in as a leader because so many things are happening at once in such a high-stakes situation. It's almost like rolling the dice when it's two relatively strong militaries that can escalate well beyond what was planned.

The best long game would have been and still is to bolster economic development with Pakistan. Give them a taste of your growth and use it as leverage to work on things that are important to your nation. It's the only way.

Doing stuff like Operation Sindoor in such a volatile region multiple times is going to lead to disaster eventually. One wrong move or one misunderstanding during a conflict and this will turn into a major tragedy on both sides of the border.

The dumb thing is, India has such a massive playing card when it comes to soft power with Pakistan, in language and culture. But because they are fixated on impressing their hindutva aggression, all that has gone out of the window. But I guess they have to work this out of their system, there are obviously deep psychological scars from a history of colonialism in last few hundred years.

 

[emranabbas]

Saw a short clip of Modi’s address, I don’t think India is making any progress in this aspect any time soon.

What an absolute buffoon, and the people who vote for him are even bigger buffoons.

India’s really hurt its image around the world after this conflict, and it looks like the damage will stick for a while. A lot of neutral people have turned against them, and they’re being mocked globally. Their claim of going after terrorists without showing any real proof isn’t convincing anyone. Even countries like Russia and the US don’t seem interested the only one really backing them is Israel.

 

[kingusama92]

The dumb thing is, India has such a massive playing card when it comes to soft power with Pakistan, in language and culture. But because they are fixated on impressing their hindutva aggression, all that has gone out of the window. But I guess they have to work this out of their system, there are obviously deep psychological scars from a history of colonialism in last few hundred years.

100% agree.

A well-oiled machine could have easily influenced Pakistan over 15-20 years due to these built-in factors. Instead, they have chosen a short-sighted strategy that will be unmanageable over time.

If we assume another attack happens in a few years (god forbid), does this mean India has to do something even more aggressive? How much will they escalate their responses until it's just a straight-up war? And by that time, Pakistan will be so well-trained and battle-hardened knowing all of its weaknesses that a war is going to become impossible to even gain an inch in.

They have boxed themselves in here for no reason.

 

[Devadwal]

Pune — DRDO scientists are working on a 'humanoid robot' for risky military missions to PROTECT troops .

 

[BouncerGuy]

Hyderabad's Karachi Bakery vandalised by BJP activists amid heightened India-Pak tensions

Just days prior, the bakery's outlet in Visakhapatnam, Andhra Pradesh, faced similar protests, highlighting a troubling pattern amid India-Pakistan tensions.

Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/india/...ts-amid-heightened-india-pak-tensions-3535603

After India’s Karachi Bakery vandalised, Pakistanis are showing love for Hyderabad’s Bombay Bakery

fter workers of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) vandalised Karachi Bakery in India’s Hyderabad over its name on Saturday, Pakistanis have been showing love for Hyderabad’s Bombay Bakery in Pakistan.

The attack on Karachi Bakery came prior to the ceasefire announcement between the two neighbouring countries amid heightened tensions. The vandals wore saffron shawls, stepped on Pakistani flags and chanted anti-Pakistan slogans, The Wire reported, adding that there was footage of them striking the bakery’s sign with sticks, to target the word ‘Karachi’.

This was not an isolated incident. In 2019, an outlet of the Karachi Bakery in India’s Bengaluru covered up the word ‘Karachi’ on its signboard after a mob protested against the name. The Bengaluru Police Control Room confirmed to Scroll.in at the time that it had received a distress call in connection with a ruckus at Karachi Bakery in Indiranagar.

Amid this, social media users from Pakistan were quick to show their appreciation for Bombay Bakery and its delicious cakes. The bakery, owned by the Thadani family, celebrated its centennial anniversary in 2011, and has been a local staple for years, enjoying a very loyal customer base.

‘Shameful behaviour’

Pakistani designer Deepak Perwani condemned the “shameful behaviour” following news about the Karachi Bakery vandalism. He highlighted that “no one, absolutely no one ever touches their [Bombay Bakery’s] shops.”

‘Super special cake’

An X (formerly Twitter) user pointed out that the “legendary” bakery featured a “super special cake that’s so famous, it flies off the shelves faster than you can say, ‘yum’!” That cake is, of course, the very famous coffee cake.

Another user pointed out that Bombay Bakery in Pakistan often had lines of customers over that cake.

The bakery is famous for long queues and selling out their cakes in mere minutes, despite their frantic efforts at limiting the number to two per customer.

“Even in Hyderabad, Pakistan, the most iconic bakery is the Bombay Bakery,” someone wrote.

“From early morning until closing time, people line up outside its doors. The bakery’s cakes have become a cherished staple that are often gifted as tokens of affection and celebration.”

Pakistan’s ‘pride’

Others affectionately said that the bakery was Pakistan’s “pride.”

A netizen said the bakery was “the pride of Pakistan, regardless of its name.”

Generations of eating coffee cake

One person shared that an event in their family, especially birthdays, was incomplete without Bombay Bakery’s famed coffee cake.

“My father and my grandfather have stood in lines to get the cake, years before I was born. Bombay Bakery is as Pakistani as it can get.”

A beloved bakery

Some social media users highlighted that the bakery was run by a Hindu family and loved by “all Pakistanis.”

Another person said that if anyone dared to touch Bombay Bakery, the entire city of Hyderabad, and perhaps the whole country, would “riot” because “it’s beloved.”

‘Honour our heritage with love’

“While Indian extremists vandalise bakeries out of hate, here in Pakistan, we honour our heritage with love. Bombay Bakery founded in 1911 in Hyderabad, Sindh by Pahlajrai Gangaram Thandani, a Sindhi Hindu from Dadu, is more than just a bakery,” one person wrote on X.

“It’s a symbol of shared culture, co-existence and legacy […] We don’t attack names. We celebrate taste, tradition and those who created it.”

‘Once a proud nation’

An Indian X user shed light on the incident, adding that Bombay Bakery in Pakistan’s Hyderabad was “celebrated by all.”

“We were once a proud, secular nation. Look at us now. Is this the India we dreamed of?” he questioned.

‘Craving’

All we can say is that we’re grateful for Bombay Bakery and, much like this X user, we’re now craving some of their delicious coffee cake.

DAWN NEWS

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Most sensible take I have heard so far.

It will only fall on deaf ears though.

 

[Devadwal]

This should be way forward for Pakistan.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922554848102277336

 

[Technics 1210]

The way forwards :

Sack Modi
Condemn Hindutva to history
Build bridges with your neighbours.
Creating a single market covering 50%
Create a single currency in the single market.
Give the West a real run for their money.

Do the above and not one person from the SC has to ever migrate towards the West.

Build the economy and you will build the unity.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Putting emotions aside for a moment:

Whether people want to admit it or not, there will be no end to the hostility in the region until the Kashmir issue is resolved. A military solution cannot address a problem that is inherently political in nature. For lasting peace in the subcontinent, the Kashmir conflict must be resolved through a political settlement acceptable to both Pakistan and India.

Pakistan, unable to match India militarily in conventional terms, has historically resorted to asymmetric strategies, like supporting non-state actors/terrorists. While India has successfully applied international pressure to curb Pakistan’s involvement to a degree, the situation remains complex. There are still homegrown insurgent groups within the valley—driven by deep-seated resentment and fueled by the overwhelming military presence imposed by New Delhi—who are ready and willing to take up arms against the Indian state. It's also unlikely that the Pakistani state will just completely stop meddling in Kashmir.

This may be uncomfortable for many in India to hear, especially given the dominant national narrative that Kashmir is an “integral/inalienable part of India.” But that assertion overlooks the the historical and political context.

In truth, both India and Pakistan act as occupying forces in Kashmir. Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris, and in a perfect world, there would be an independent Kashmiri state.

But in the real world, the most viable path to peace lies in India and Pakistan finding a political solution that is acceptable to both. Unfortunately, that possibility appears distant for now.

Which means there will likely be more bloodshed, more finger-pointing, and more rabid jingoism. There will be more war-mongering, nationalism, airstrikes, drone attacks, and shelling along the border. Politicians on both sides will claim symbolic victories and continue using the 'other' as a convenient scapegoat to galvanize their vote banks, while tapering over their own indiscretions.

Meanwhile, the ones who will truly suffer are the millions of ordinary people in both countries—those living in poverty, struggling each day just to survive.

Side-note: If you think that 'India is right' or 'Pakistan is right', don't bother replying at all.

 

[Josh]

The way forward for india is that it needs to up its security regimen. Security needs to be beefed up at key tourist places in Kashmir strategically and key checkpoints need to manned at all time and no complacency should set in. Also local intelligence network needs big improvement. Probably there also goes the full statehood dream of Jammu and Kashmir for another decade. It will remain an UT for next few years.

In the long run, India need to invest more and locally produce warfare materials including new generation aircrafts. Encourage more and more local private manufacturing of its defence needs.

At the same time, continue focus on economy and upliftment of people from poverty. We have large unproductive labour force who act like trolls on the internet. They need to be guided to the path of productivity and at the same time internal cohesion needs to improve among different communities.

It is imperative on the Indian state to make people reconcile with India's past, so that we can rise above the petty politics of the day. Political discourse has been very low level on the social media of late, that needs to change. State can force a peace but that's does not solve the problem, reconciliation need to happen and indian muslim minority also need to show a bigger heart by giving back places like Mathura and Kashi back to Hindus for their temple. Hindus will need to appreciate these good gestures and get done with this anti muslim rhetoric. Win win for both the communities.

 

[Josh]

The way forward for india is that it needs to up its security regimen. Security needs to be beefed up at key tourist places in Kashmir strategically and key checkpoints need to manned at all time and no complacency should set in. Also local intelligence network needs big improvement. Probably there also goes the full statehood dream of Jammu and Kashmir for another decade. It will remain an UT for next few years.

In the long run, India need to invest more and locally produce warfare materials including new generation aircrafts. Encourage more and more local private manufacturing of its defence needs.

At the same time, continue focus on economy and upliftment of people from poverty. We have large unproductive labour force who act like trolls on the internet. They need to be guided to the path of productivity and at the same time internal cohesion needs to improve among different communities.

It is imperative on the Indian state to make people reconcile with India's past, so that we can rise above the petty politics of the day. Political discourse has been very low level on the social media of late, that needs to change. State can force a peace but that's does not solve the problem, reconciliation need to happen and indian muslim minority also need to show a bigger heart by giving back places like Mathura and Kashi back to Hindus for their temple. Hindus will need to appreciate these good gestures and get done with this anti muslim rhetoric. Win win for both the communities.

And continue to target terror networks that target Indian citizens with bigger response each time they try to terrorize India.

 

[Josh]

Putting emotions aside for a moment:

Whether people want to admit it or not, there will be no end to the hostility in the region until the Kashmir issue is resolved. A military solution cannot address a problem that is inherently political in nature. For lasting peace in the subcontinent, the Kashmir conflict must be resolved through a political settlement acceptable to both Pakistan and India.

Pakistan, unable to match India militarily in conventional terms, has historically resorted to asymmetric strategies, like supporting non-state actors/terrorists. While India has successfully applied international pressure to curb Pakistan’s involvement to a degree, the situation remains complex. There are still homegrown insurgent groups within the valley—driven by deep-seated resentment and fueled by the overwhelming military presence imposed by New Delhi—who are ready and willing to take up arms against the Indian state. It's also unlikely that the Pakistani state will just completely stop meddling in Kashmir.

This may be uncomfortable for many in India to hear, especially given the dominant national narrative that Kashmir is an “integral/inalienable part of India.” But that assertion overlooks the the historical and political context.

In truth, both India and Pakistan act as occupying forces in Kashmir. Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris, and in a perfect world, there would be an independent Kashmiri state.

But in the real world, the most viable path to peace lies in India and Pakistan finding a political solution that is acceptable to both. Unfortunately, that possibility appears distant for now.

Which means there will likely be more bloodshed, more finger-pointing, and more rabid jingoism. There will be more war-mongering, nationalism, airstrikes, drone attacks, and shelling along the border. Politicians on both sides will claim symbolic victories and continue using the 'other' as a convenient scapegoat to galvanize their vote banks, while tapering over their own indiscretions.

Meanwhile, the ones who will truly suffer are the millions of ordinary people in both countries—those living in poverty, struggling each day just to survive.

Side-note: If you think that 'India is right' or 'Pakistan is right', don't bother replying at all.

India cannot and should not allow another country based on religion carved out of it. It will jeopardize the security of Indian state with religious hardliners ruling it soon and who will consider India the kafir land an enemy state.

Let the Kashmiris continue elect their state leaders in free and fair manner without any meddling. Solve their grievances within the constitutional framework of India. Be fair in both punishment and rewards according to the constitution.

In the last 5 years, Indian state did gain some good will among hardline kashmiris after development post 370 removal and we shouldn't let this Pehalgam incident derail that.

India is a civilization country and some of our people may have changed their religion and faith in due course of time due to many factors including caste system, forced conversions by foreign rulers and Sufism but that doesn't change the origin of these people and we are bound by thousand years of shared culture and fraternity. Goal should be to teach every kid about this and make the people aware, so that these very recently introduced differences don't become a threat to our civilization.

We have seen with Pakistan, part of the very same Indian civilization, how it tries to destroy it. How its textbook are written to make the very people hate their ancestral civilization. It has forgotten its local heroes and warriors, like they keep the names of their missiles on the very invaders who plundered their lands and made their ancestors suffer. Some of them has audacity to say we ruled you for centuries while conveniently forgetting that it was the the foreign invaders who ruled India and they were at best just the pawns.

 

[sweep_shot]

India should stop interfering in nearby countries and stop blaming Pakistan for domestic terror attacks. They should stop behaving like 5-year old kids.

Also, India should stop supporting terror groups in both Bangladesh and Pakistan. India has ties to BLA as well as separatists in southeast Bangladesh. India also interfered in Nepal (https://thediplomat.com/2020/06/5-factors-driving-anti-india-sentiment-in-nepal/). India should cease these disruptive activities.

India should know their limitations and stay within those limitations. Otherwise, they can expect more regional isolation, land loss, domestic conflicts etc.

 

[ElRaja]

Putting emotions aside for a moment:

Whether people want to admit it or not, there will be no end to the hostility in the region until the Kashmir issue is resolved. A military solution cannot address a problem that is inherently political in nature. For lasting peace in the subcontinent, the Kashmir conflict must be resolved through a political settlement acceptable to both Pakistan and India.

Pakistan, unable to match India militarily in conventional terms, has historically resorted to asymmetric strategies, like supporting non-state actors/terrorists. While India has successfully applied international pressure to curb Pakistan’s involvement to a degree, the situation remains complex. There are still homegrown insurgent groups within the valley—driven by deep-seated resentment and fueled by the overwhelming military presence imposed by New Delhi—who are ready and willing to take up arms against the Indian state. It's also unlikely that the Pakistani state will just completely stop meddling in Kashmir.

This may be uncomfortable for many in India to hear, especially given the dominant national narrative that Kashmir is an “integral/inalienable part of India.” But that assertion overlooks the the historical and political context.

In truth, both India and Pakistan act as occupying forces in Kashmir. Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris, and in a perfect world, there would be an independent Kashmiri state.

But in the real world, the most viable path to peace lies in India and Pakistan finding a political solution that is acceptable to both. Unfortunately, that possibility appears distant for now.

Which means there will likely be more bloodshed, more finger-pointing, and more rabid jingoism. There will be more war-mongering, nationalism, airstrikes, drone attacks, and shelling along the border. Politicians on both sides will claim symbolic victories and continue using the 'other' as a convenient scapegoat to galvanize their vote banks, while tapering over their own indiscretions.

Meanwhile, the ones who will truly suffer are the millions of ordinary people in both countries—those living in poverty, struggling each day just to survive.

Side-note: If you think that 'India is right' or 'Pakistan is right', don't bother replying at all.

from the indian pov this is a fairly balanced analysis apart from one point, Pakistan does not act as an occupying force in gb and ak, i spent a lot of time in ak as a kid, and i know people from GB, they are very proud of their culture, but they are also proud pakistanis, not a few, not some, virtually everyone. trying to portray Pakistan as occupying GB (which is culturally, linguistically, and historically not kashmiri) is drawing a false equivalence to try to equate indian and Pakistani kashmir, which is disingenuous. you can say everyone has a right to sell determination even without that implication.

as for a political solution, what your hinting at, i.e. Kashmiri independence would never be acceptable to india because an independent kashmir would almost certainly become a Chinese client state and india would lose control of its rivers. this is true for Pakistan too, but they would fear Chinese control less imo. also with india declaring every act it deems to be terrorism to be a valid cassus belli to attack Pakistan, there is no chance of any peace in the region. any rogue actor can now force india into a war for the cost of a machine gun and bad intentions.

the reason this is a problem because neither country can afford to give up kashmir, it will continue to be a thorn in regional peace.

 

[Kianig89]

پاکستان نے اپنی ایٹمی صلاحیت مؤثر انداز میں منوالی: بھارتی اخبار

مضمون میں کہا گیا کہ آپریشن سندور کے دوران بھارت کو کسی پڑوسی ملک کی حمایت حاصل نہیں ہو سکی۔

jang.com.pk

The defeatist operation not only exposed Modi but left J shankar without drawstring

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

from the indian pov this is a fairly balanced analysis apart from one point, Pakistan does not act as an occupying force in gb and ak, i spent a lot of time in ak as a kid, and i know people from GB, they are very proud of their culture, but they are also proud pakistanis, not a few, not some, virtually everyone. trying to portray Pakistan as occupying GB (which is culturally, linguistically, and historically not kashmiri) is drawing a false equivalence to try to equate indian and Pakistani kashmir, which is disingenuous. you can say everyone has a right to sell determination even without that implication.

as for a political solution, what your hinting at, i.e. Kashmiri independence would never be acceptable to india because an independent kashmir would almost certainly become a Chinese client state and india would lose control of its rivers. this is true for Pakistan too, but they would fear Chinese control less imo. also with india declaring every act it deems to be terrorism to be a valid cassus belli to attack Pakistan, there is no chance of any peace in the region. any rogue actor can now force india into a war for the cost of a machine gun and bad intentions.

the reason this is a problem because neither country can afford to give up kashmir, it will continue to be a thorn in regional peace.

I think Ladakh and GB can be excluded from Kashmir. But Pakistan, like India, is an occupying force in what Pakistan call AJK. You cannot say Kashmir is a disputed territory and then claim the part of Kashmir that you control.

It's very improbable but not impossible. It requires mature leadership from both sides who are committed more to finding a solution rather than appeasing the people, particularly the hard-liners in their respective countries. But in the near future that seems very unlikely.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

India cannot and should not allow another country based on religion carved out of it. It will jeopardize the security of Indian state with religious hardliners ruling it soon and who will consider India the kafir land an enemy state.

Let the Kashmiris continue elect their state leaders in free and fair manner without any meddling. Solve their grievances within the constitutional framework of India. Be fair in both punishment and rewards according to the constitution.

In the last 5 years, Indian state did gain some good will among hardline kashmiris after development post 370 removal and we shouldn't let this Pehalgam incident derail that.

India is a civilization country and some of our people may have changed their religion and faith in due course of time due to many factors including caste system, forced conversions by foreign rulers and Sufism but that doesn't change the origin of these people and we are bound by thousand years of shared culture and fraternity. Goal should be to teach every kid about this and make the people aware, so that these very recently introduced differences don't become a threat to our civilization.

We have seen with Pakistan, part of the very same Indian civilization, how it tries to destroy it. How its textbook are written to make the very people hate their ancestral civilization. It has forgotten its local heroes and warriors, like they keep the names of their missiles on the very invaders who plundered their lands and made their ancestors suffer. Some of them has audacity to say we ruled you for centuries while conveniently forgetting that it was the the foreign invaders who ruled India and they were at best just the pawns.

Kashmir isn’t just about religion and reducing it to that is an oversimplification. It’s a region with its own rich history, culture, language that predates the creation of both India and Pakistan, as well as the rise of religious nationalism in South Asia. Above all, the people of Kashmir were never given the opportunity to choose their own future. An independent Kashmir would be a step toward correcting a historical injustice.

 

[HalBass9]

Putting emotions aside for a moment:

Whether people want to admit it or not, there will be no end to the hostility in the region until the Kashmir issue is resolved. A military solution cannot address a problem that is inherently political in nature. For lasting peace in the subcontinent, the Kashmir conflict must be resolved through a political settlement acceptable to both Pakistan and India.

Pakistan, unable to match India militarily in conventional terms, has historically resorted to asymmetric strategies, like supporting non-state actors/terrorists. While India has successfully applied international pressure to curb Pakistan’s involvement to a degree, the situation remains complex. There are still homegrown insurgent groups within the valley—driven by deep-seated resentment and fueled by the overwhelming military presence imposed by New Delhi—who are ready and willing to take up arms against the Indian state. It's also unlikely that the Pakistani state will just completely stop meddling in Kashmir.

This may be uncomfortable for many in India to hear, especially given the dominant national narrative that Kashmir is an “integral/inalienable part of India.” But that assertion overlooks the the historical and political context.

In truth, both India and Pakistan act as occupying forces in Kashmir. Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris, and in a perfect world, there would be an independent Kashmiri state.

But in the real world, the most viable path to peace lies in India and Pakistan finding a political solution that is acceptable to both. Unfortunately, that possibility appears distant for now.

Which means there will likely be more bloodshed, more finger-pointing, and more rabid jingoism. There will be more war-mongering, nationalism, airstrikes, drone attacks, and shelling along the border. Politicians on both sides will claim symbolic victories and continue using the 'other' as a convenient scapegoat to galvanize their vote banks, while tapering over their own indiscretions.

Meanwhile, the ones who will truly suffer are the millions of ordinary people in both countries—those living in poverty, struggling each day just to survive.

Side-note: If you think that 'India is right' or 'Pakistan is right', don't bother replying at all.

Even if war leads to annihilation, the end will still demand what was needed from the start, a political solution. Violence may end lives, but only dialogue can end conflict.

 

[ElRaja]

I think Ladakh and GB can be excluded from Kashmir. But Pakistan, like India, is an occupying force in what Pakistan call AJK. You cannot say Kashmir is a disputed territory and then claim the part of Kashmir that you control.

It's very improbable but not impossible. It requires mature leadership from both sides who are committed more to finding a solution rather than appeasing the people, particularly the hard-liners in their respective countries. But in the near future that seems very unlikely.

I agree on Ladakh and GB, although Ladakh still has a sizeable population that has supported insurgency in the past. But honestly, what you're hinting at is one thing I said long ago: You should make the scope of the problem smaller, and if that means recognising Ladakh as India and GB as Pakistan, so be it.

Kashmir is disputed in as much as it is unresolved with respect to the UN charter, which was meant to determine its future. However, that is done and dusted, and a plebiscite will never happen. The disputed region is where the dispute is. Azad Kashmir is way more pro-Pakistani than anti-Pakistani.

the main crux of the issue is that there is a sizeable proportion of kashmiris in the valley who are anti india, its the reason the pehlgam terrorists got 200km into kashmiri territory fully armed, and ready for killing. if for the sake of equivalence to both side u want to include ak along with the valley, that's a different matter, but the ground reality is completely different, whilst i dont know whether valley kashmiris would choose Pakistan over india, i have zero uncertainty that that ak kashmiris would choose pak over india.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I agree on Ladakh and GB, although Ladakh still has a sizeable population that has supported insurgency in the past. But honestly, what you're hinting at is one thing I said long ago: You should make the scope of the problem smaller, and if that means recognising Ladakh as India and GB as Pakistan, so be it.

Kashmir is disputed in as much as it is unresolved with respect to the UN charter, which was meant to determine its future. However, that is done and dusted, and a plebiscite will never happen. The disputed region is where the dispute is. Azad Kashmir is way more pro-Pakistani than anti-Pakistani.

the main crux of the issue is that there is a sizeable proportion of kashmiris in the valley who are anti india, its the reason the pehlgam terrorists got 200km into kashmiri territory fully armed, and ready for killing. if for the sake of equivalence to both side u want to include ak along with the valley, that's a different matter, but the ground reality is completely different, whilst i dont know whether valley kashmiris would choose Pakistan over india, i have zero uncertainty that that ak kashmiris would choose pak over india.

There may not be the same level of suppression on the Pakistani side of Kashmir as there is on the Indian side, but that doesn't mean the region is free or truly autonomous. Political dissent is still curtailed, development remains uneven, and the voices advocating for true independence are often silenced or marginalized. You also have a heavy military presence and the military controlling every aspect of decision-making. Ultimately, both sides of the LOC have denied Kashmiris full agency over their own future.

 

[Josh]

Kashmir isn’t just about religion and reducing it to that is an oversimplification. It’s a region with its own rich history, culture, language that predates the creation of both India and Pakistan, as well as the rise of religious nationalism in South Asia. Above all, the people of Kashmir were never given the opportunity to choose their own future. An independent Kashmir would be a step toward correcting a historical injustice.

Kashmir independence call have always been about religion. The demand for independence or autonomy has primarily come from the Muslim-majority population. Kashmiri Hindus, with the exact same genetical make up, who faced brutal ethnic cleansing and were forced to flee, have never asked for independence. Ignoring this reality is an attempt to rewrite history. The calls for independence peaked when the religious parties were winning and congress meddled in the elections to make national conference win the election in 1987. Before that it was mostly about greater autonomy within Indian state. It was doing okay but the terrorism and violent activities led to loss of its autonomy and eventually full statehood. Parts of Kashmir that Pakistan administers is mostly rajput, gujjar and mirpuri who are more close to Dogras of Jammu than to people of Kashmir valley. Only small pocket of ethnic kashmiris live in neelum valley.

Gujjars and Bakarwal muslims of Indian Jammu and Kashmir do not want independence nor do Shias of Kargil. Just a tiny majority concentrated in valley cannot be given independence. Brothers of General Munir will immediately invade and make it part of Pakistan the moment it happens.

And If we go by this narrative , every state of India has different sub culture. I don't see the independence thing happening in our life times. The only practical solution is make LOC an IB and make peace with it.

 

[ElRaja]

There may not be the same level of suppression on the Pakistani side of Kashmir as there is on the Indian side, but that doesn't mean the region is free or truly autonomous. Political dissent is still curtailed, development remains uneven, and the voices advocating for true independence are often silenced or marginalized. You also have a heavy military presence and the military controlling every aspect of decision-making. Ultimately, both sides of the LOC have denied Kashmiris full agency over their own future.

but there is one part your ignoring, for ak its no different than the rest of Pakistan, the military controls everything, and political expression is suppressed, this is not an issue of ak being marginalised, they pbly have it better than a lot of other places in pak given how much foreign money flows in from British pakistanis

you cannot say that is the same situation for indian kashmir.