''After the creation of Pakistan, indeed May 28th was the most romantic day..." : Zaid Hamid

[Markhor]

To be blunt, it was not just an important day for Pakistan, it was an important day for Islam, and this I feel is the point the OP was trying to make (albeit the OP is badly worded).

Why doesn't any nation question Christian nations who have the bomb? Hindu nation who has the bomb? Jewish nation who has the bomb? Why do these aforementioned nations feel they have no need to justify their nuclear arsenal? Why is there a problem with an Islamic nation obtaining the bomb in the name of balance? Let's not forget South Africa who were stripped of Nuclear status once Blacks came into power - clearly there is political bias. What is it about Islam that nations around the world fear? It's not terrorism, that's just a recent breed of fear created by the West in order to control the sheeple, there must be something else.

The Islamic bomb has strengthened Islam as a whole, it has provided balance to the political world, but non Islamic nations cannot accept this fact. Why is the question.

Obtaining nuclear weapons is no small feat,regardless of which nation has it.

However it is ironic how the US advanced their nuclear weapons and developed their science.A lot of ex Nazi scientists actually were allowed to live in the US and work for the state.Operation Paperclip is something that is ignored too easily.

The Allies vied to plunder as much equipment and expertise as possible from the rubble of the Reich for themselves, while preventing others from doing the same.

Supersonic rockets, nerve gas, jet aircraft, guided missiles, stealth technology and hardened armour were just some of the groundbreaking technologies developed in Nazi laboratories.

It should be questioned how the Western nations obtained their WMDs.It is hypocritical to question Iran's motives in the same breath.

Nevertheless,the nuclear deterrent is something that no country will give up.

It will take someone to make that first step,in order for others to do the same.It was Gorbachev who extended the olive branch to the West during the later years of the Cold War.Nuclear disarmament should be a must,they drain too much of Pakistan's resources which is better spent of education.

Trident should be scrapped.The US should take a leading role in extending the olive branch,just as Gorbachev did and this Modern Day Cold War with the East.Iran,India and Pakistan all have to make conciliatory steps.

However none of this will happen.Our education budget will remain ignored just so we can have a few more toys in our bloated defence budget.Jobs will not be created.India and Pakistan will continue their proxy wars.

Nuclear energy,it is a concentrated energy source and does not emit pollutant gases,which is crucial in today's world.That is reasonable.

But using it as a source of aggression and attack will bring about Armageddon and doubt end to civilization in the sub-continent.How is that in any way 'romantic' ? How can someone celebrate weapons that are designed to kill and maim beyond recognition ?

I'd like to see some of the romanticists go to Hiroshima and Nagasaki and talk about how great nukes are and how they celebrate them.

This is why we should not glorify nuclear weapons.The areas surrounding Chernobyl are still feeling the effects today.

Unfortunately the neo-conservatives,the nuclear fanboys,the politicians and army generals do not realise this and would rather keeping adding to their stocks of nuclear missiles.

 

[jzdanish]

Is this why Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya to name a few have been invaded and millions of innocent Muslims have lost their lives? Lebanon was bomb constantly for more than 2 weeks not to mention the struggle of Palestinians. The facts and reality in the ground are much different than how you have phrased it.

There is no question that for Pakistan the atomic bomb is a must considering our relationship with our neighbor but to claim that the bomb has had any positive effect on Islamic countries and label the bomb an "Islamic bomb" is nothing more than feeding ones ego.

If only.. let me try to phrase this so you can comprehend it; the situation is due to our pathetic corrupt government. Had Pakistan been a genuine democratic force with true leaders, then the world would have been a different place. So to answer your question; the bomb had MANY effects on the geopolitics of the world and would have HAD several specifically during the past 10-12 years had Pakistan been run by a true leader. Some people just cant analyze and understand there are several factors which play a key part in determining the game of politics and security.

 

[jzdanish]

''Meanwhile, other voices in the Arab World urge Pakistan to contribute to the emergence of an Arab bomb. The Saudi Ukaz expects a major strategic realignment in the Middle East as a result of the Pakistani tests. "What is certain is that the recent developments in the Indian sub-continent will leave their own effect on the Middle East developments and will prompt several parties involved in the Middle East crisis to rearrange their cards and to review their calculations for the forthcoming phase." Similarly, the Islamist paper Al-Quds al-Arabi anticipated that the Pakistani nuclearization would have a major impact in the Arab World. "The main Arab states, especially Egypt, will feel intensely embarrassed on account of Pakistan's possession of the first Islamic nuclear bomb, and its success in achieving strategic balance with its adversary India, while these states have failed to achieve the same balance with the Hebrew state... The possession of nuclear arms is an introduction to taking on the leadership of the Islamic World and having greater influence over most of the events and Islamic summits that will be held in the future." Al-Quds al-Arabi urges the Arab leaders to learn from Islamabad and to both make decisions and resist the US. "The Arab states in confrontation with Israel should have striven to gain possession of nuclear weapons, not only in order to liberate Palestine, but in order to maintain their national security and neutralize the Israeli nuclear weapons. ... The Arab states can still benefit from this Pakistani lesson at more than one level and the Pakistani experience in the nuclear field is still very important for any Arab state that wants to rebel against US and Israeli domination and follow the path of military power and its requirements."

Thus, the mere existence of the Pakistani Islamic Bomb changes everything. Here there are proven missile and nuclear weapons capabilities. There is an ambiguity as to the extent to which Islamabad will give its strategic capabilities to all-Islamic causes, particularly in the Middle East. However, given Islamabad's on going warnings and alarms of impending Israeli strikes, as well as its requests for Arab and Iranian assistance, it is virtually impossible for Islamabad not to "contribute" to Arab-Iranian "causes," even if only in a declaratory manner. Moreover, Egyptian and Pakistani officials claim that the CIA has been warning Islamabad of a potential Israeli strike since 1994. That is, the US has known about Israel's "perfidious designs" and has done nothing to restrain Israel - thus giving greater credibility to the need to integrate Pakistan into the Arab-Israeli and anti-US strategic equation. Moreover, not to be ignored is the active participation of Pakistani pilots and other military experts in all the previous Arab- Israeli wars. Thus, irrespective of what Islamabad declares or does not declare, it is highly likely that Pakistan will be providing a de-factor nuclear umbrella that will serve as restraining factor for both Israel and the US in case of a major crisis.

What does this ambiguity means is that Islamabad has an incentive to capitalize on a major crisis on the Arab-Israeli front or in the Persian Gulf in order to further its conflict with India. With world attention focused elsewhere, and with Chinese support guaranteed, Pakistan can pursue its own Islamic cause - Kashmir - as an integral part of the all-Islamic "cause." Such circumstances are the best of all worlds for Islamabad. Given the close relations between India and Israel, Pakistan can even tie both crises - Kashmir and the Middle East - with the excuse that India was going to help Israel, and Pakistan is defending the rear of the Hub of Islam.

by Yossef Bodansky


READ!

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Is this why Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya to name a few have been invaded and millions of innocent Muslims have lost their lives? Lebanon was bomb constantly for more than 2 weeks not to mention the struggle of Palestinians. The facts and reality in the ground are much different than how you have phrased it.

Surely Western forces raped and pillaged the nations you have mentioned above? And anyway, it's only been around 25 years since the inception of the Islamic bomb; early days yet but something tells me Islam is set to unify on a global scale.

There is no question that for Pakistan the atomic bomb is a must considering our relationship with our neighbor but to claim that the bomb has had any positive effect on Islamic countries and label the bomb an "Islamic bomb" is nothing more than feeding ones ego.

It was after considering the status of our neighbour, India, that Pakistan had every reason and right to develop the bomb.

As for the term 'Islamic bomb', the term was created and first used by Kissenger in the 70s, not Pakistan nor Iran. This is how the Western world perceived Pakistan's Atomic bomb. Pakistan doesn't make this distinction based on religion, it is the West and India that do - such an act speaks volumes.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

PS: I'm off to an American stylee BBQ! Be back soon!

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Spot on bro.

The answer has many aspects to it but in simple terms it's the fear of Islam as a way of life which could potentially cancel/balance out the current way the world is run today. Nearly 2 billion Muslims don't even have the power of veto in the UN for this reason.

All Muslims nations should have nukes, this deterrent is a definite requirement in a world where Islam and it's followers are seen as the enemy.

Indeed, but the question remains, why does the world perceive Islam as an enemy, in that, what is it about Islam that instills fear among world nations - I just don't understand.

As far as Muslim nations obtaining the bomb, I couldn't agree more. If Christian, Hindu, Jewish, and Buddhist ideologies are free to develop nuclear arsenals devoid of any geopolitical hindrance, then surely Islam has an equal right to do so.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Indeed, but the question remains, why does the world perceive Islam as an enemy, in that, what is it about Islam that instills fear among world nations - I just don't understand.

As far as Muslim nations obtaining the bomb, I couldn't agree more. If Christian, Hindu, Jewish, and Buddhist ideologies are free to develop nuclear arsenals devoid of any geopolitical hindrance, then surely Islam has an equal right to do so.

Hope you enjoyed the bbq.

They call it the Islamic bomb but don't even speculate on the Jewish bomb. Israel is known to have nuclear weapons but any mention of this and it's seen as picking on one nation. The Jewish bomb can be kept a secret while the Islamic bomb must be constantly kept in the public domain, eventually to be rid of.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Hope you enjoyed the bbq.

Yaar, even the firs here in the USA is different. They love to fuel their BBQs with Propane gas, even though coal has a better effect!

They call it the Islamic bomb but don't even speculate on the Jewish bomb. Israel is known to have nuclear weapons but any mention of this and it's seen as picking on one nation. The Jewish bomb can be kept a secret while the Islamic bomb must be constantly kept in the public domain, eventually to be rid of.

Superb summation.

Israel is known to have nuclear bombs. If I remember correctly one of the Israeli scientists revealed this secret and was public enemy number 1 in Israel. Why hide it given the entire world knows the USA armed Israel with the bomb. The levels of hypocrisy are sickening to say the least.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Propane gas! Coal is always the way to go.

Israel is known to have nuclear bombs. If I remember correctly one of the Israeli scientists revealed this secret and was public enemy number 1 in Israel. Why hide it given the entire world knows the USA armed Israel with the bomb. The levels of hypocrisy are sickening to say the least.

There are a few reasons as to why the Jewish bomb is hidden, one being an excuse to degrade and attack others who may be wanting nuclear energy(Iran) and the other being their history of offering this bomb to similar racist regimes(SA).

If bookies took bets on who would use this next, Israel and America would be clear favourites, infact the game would be fixed in their favour.

 

[Jadz]

So the 28th of May is regarded as a great day for Pakistan?

I suggest, with great respect, that neither independance nor the development of nuclear weapons has advanced the Muslim cause in the sub-continent - or beyond - one iota.

It is sad to witness this form of nationalistic chest-thumping. And let us not associate weapons of mass destruction with Islam. To do so is to make a mockery of Deeni-Llah.

I may further add here, that the nation of Pakistan would have been better served if its peoples had access to education. An educated, well-informed polulace may not have engaged in the kind of internecine conflicts which have become an almost daily occurance. The country is in imminent danger of fragmenting and disintegrating.

If Muslims think that nuclear weapons can protect them from their enemies, then little wonder the latter have slaughtered Muslims on an epic scale after these weapons were acquired in Pakistan. Wa Llahu 'Alam.

Allah SWT is The Protector - Al-Wali.

As Salaamu 'Alaykum

 

[KingKhanWC]

So the 28th of May is regarded as a great day for Pakistan?

I suggest, with great respect, that neither independance nor the development of nuclear weapons has advanced the Muslim cause in the sub-continent - or beyond - one iota.

Both have secured protection for Muslims in the sub-continent from the wrath of non-believers.

It is sad to witness this form of nationalistic chest-thumping. And let us not associate weapons of mass destruction with Islam. To do so is to make a mockery of Deeni-Llah.

People are proud of Pakistan as their nation, you are after all on a site which is called Pakpassion. Since you don't have any interest in Pakistan or cricket one may wonder what you're doing here and what your agenda is? As mentioned earlier the term 'Islamic bomb' was coined by Non-Muslims who hate Islam this is why the term is being used here.

I may further add here, that the nation of Pakistan would have been better served if its peoples had access to education. An educated, well-informed polulace may not have engaged in the kind of internecine conflicts which have become an almost daily occurance. The country is in imminent danger of fragmenting and disintegrating.

If Muslims think that nuclear weapons can protect them from their enemies, then little wonder the latter have slaughtered Muslims on an epic scale after these weapons were acquired in Pakistan. Wa Llahu 'Alam.



Allah SWT is The Protector - Al-Wali.

As Salaamu 'Alaykum

Pakistan has plenty of educated people and some of those were the ones who came up with the idea of nation for Muslims seperate from Hindu rule and others came up with nuclear weapons as detterent against hostile neighours who already had such weapons.

Almighty Allah is indeed the Protector but this doesn't mean you sit back and wait for his protection without doing something yourself.

As someone who rejects authentic hadiths which are an important part of Islam this may not have come to your attention.

One day Allah's Messenger (saw) noticed a Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it.

He asked the Bedouin, "Why don't you tie down your camel?"

The Bedouin answered, "I placed my trust in Allah."

At that, the Prophet, sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam, said,

" Tie your camel and place your trust in Allah" - Tirmidhi

 

[jzdanish]

So the 28th of May is regarded as a great day for Pakistan?

I suggest, with great respect, that neither independance nor the development of nuclear weapons has advanced the Muslim cause in the sub-continent - or beyond - one iota.

It is sad to witness this form of nationalistic chest-thumping. And let us not associate weapons of mass destruction with Islam. To do so is to make a mockery of Deeni-Llah.

I may further add here, that the nation of Pakistan would have been better served if its peoples had access to education. An educated, well-informed polulace may not have engaged in the kind of internecine conflicts which have become an almost daily occurance. The country is in imminent danger of fragmenting and disintegrating.

If Muslims think that nuclear weapons can protect them from their enemies, then little wonder the latter have slaughtered Muslims on an epic scale after these weapons were acquired in Pakistan. Wa Llahu 'Alam.

Allah SWT is The Protector - Al-Wali.

As Salaamu 'Alaykum

Jadz you need to look a bit further. I agree with you that education, health care etc are very important for any country to be sustainable however, without providing the nuclear capability, Pakistan would have been under tremendous political influence of the western countries and under nuclear blackmail specifically from India so forget education, we would have been asking India before we would be able to go to the toilet. This nuclear bomb has given Pakistan the capability to stand on its ground and hold firm. The only problem has been the corrupt and pathethic government which the people fail to understand. If Pakistan had a nationalistic government, which valued the principles of Islam, We would have been in the different era with muslims reunited and a force to be reckoned with. It is a shame because the nuclear capability provided the path for it. InshaAllah time is coming for Imran Khan to get over then you will see the changes which Pakistan can make in its policies and thanks to the Nuclear capability we will not be attacked.

 

[DHONI183]

You've answered your own question. America, Russia, China, France, England, Israel and India are not Muslim powers, but are Christian, Judaism, and Hindu powers, therefore to complete the balance an Islamic nation must acquire the atomic bomb.

My post was in line with the thinking of that poster. I still fail to see the balance as I thought they were all disbelievers united with each other to wipe off Muslims from the world.

Ridiculous line of thinking. If you think an Islamic bomb has made no difference to world politics then I suggest you read up on Kissinger's policies towards the Middle East and Pakistan pre-nuclear Pakistan. On top of this, one can see how Israel has backed off ever since the threat of a nuclear Iran surfaced; coupled with Obama's recent comments on Palestine.

Why are you dragging Iran into this now? Wasn´t Pakistan to be the sole successor of Muslims, as suggested by the opening post?

Kissinger, Missinger, Trinnger are worthy of nothing at all unless they all can change the color of things as a common man sees it.

If Barrack Obama´s recent speech came into being since they fear Pakistan, then why do I read into the 2nd of May (2011) as an epic example of slavery to U.S.A?

It has stablised the dispute; that's the difference. Both Ind and Pak realise that as far as Atomic bombs are concerned the only winning move is not to play. Nukes are not used to resolve conflict but to stamp authority.

An atom bomb can´t put breaks upon human thinking. If nations are thirsty for war then nothing on earth can prevent them from it. Kargil war 1999 is a great example which took place a year after that "romantic" day.

So you going to tell me why India developed an atomic arsenal or what?

Since I am not associated to them, I am in no position to defend them. However, it is a fact that each nation should feel ashamed of being a nuclear power, as I consider it as an initiation of terrorism. It is not a thing to be proud of, and a huge shame particularly if you call it a "gift" from God.

I have been dragged into the debate for no reasons. My objection was only for it being a "romantic" day to be proud of, and for atom bomb being a "gift" from God.

With peace!

 

[jzdanish]

Dhoni you have no idea what your talking about. Maybe youve read to many children books and I understand you live in a dream world.. maybe you need to get in touch with reality.

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Why are you dragging Iran into this now? Wasn´t Pakistan to be the sole successor of Muslims, as suggested by the opening post?

Kissinger, Missinger, Trinnger are worthy of nothing at all unless they all can change the color of things as a common man sees it.

Mocking the point of Kissenger proves to me you have squat idea of what you are talking about. If you had any idea you would understand the relevance of Iran with respect Israel with respect to Palestines with respect to Pakistan with respect to Nukes. Ask yourself why Islamic nations have been prevented from developing nukes and nations as India have not?

 

[Jadz]

Jadz you need to look a bit further. I agree with you that education, health care etc are very important for any country to be sustainable however, without providing the nuclear capability, Pakistan would have been under tremendous political influence of the western countries and under nuclear blackmail specifically from India so forget education, we would have been asking India before we would be able to go to the toilet. This nuclear bomb has given Pakistan the capability to stand on its ground and hold firm. The only problem has been the corrupt and pathethic government which the people fail to understand. If Pakistan had a nationalistic government, which valued the principles of Islam, We would have been in the different era with muslims reunited and a force to be reckoned with. It is a shame because the nuclear capability provided the path for it. InshaAllah time is coming for Imran Khan to get over then you will see the changes which Pakistan can make in its policies and thanks to the Nuclear capability we will not be attacked.

Danish - I appreciate your insightful response. Thankyou.

Prioritizing defence expenditure over and above public welfare programmes conflicts with the following Qur'anic injunction -

Surah 9, At-Tawwab, Verse 60
The offerings given for the sake of Allah are (meant) only for the poor and the needy, and those who are in charge thereof, and those whose hearts are to be won over, and for the freeing of human beings from bondage, and (for) those who are over-burdened with debts, and (for every struggle) in Allah's Cause, and (for) the wayfarer: this is an Ordinance from Allah - and Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.

Thus, the above Ayah enumerates 8 categories upon which the monies raised through Zakaat/Sadaaqat are to be spent. As may be observed, spending in the Cause of Allah SWT - a term which may be employed to refer to defence spending (though, it may also include and involve other expenditure, since the concept is broad, and by no means restricted) is 7th on the list. Wa Llahu 'Alam.

Shorn of all political/emotional/pseudo-religious assertions and counter-assertions, the repeated exhortations (eg., Q2:177, 4:162, etc) in the Qur'an, to ensure adequate provision for the vulnerable, is and must always be the number one concern of any Muslim and/or Muslim state.

Regarding India, the US/West and the rest of the world. How and in what way has Pakistan held firm since acquiring the nuclear capability? What international convention or forum listens or gives credence to anything emanating from Pakistan?

Pakistan has not stood firm in the face of aggression against its Muslim neighbours. It is also subjected to constant drone attacks, was recently subjected to US military personnel launching a unilateral attack upon a lone mansion in Abbotabad. And so on. Therefore, the idea that Pakistan has stood firm is questionable, to say the least. Rather, it is following in the footsteps of India, et. al.

I suggest, with respect, that India or the US do not need to invade Pakistan. The latter's obsession with all things Indian and American reveals that the invasion of minds and hearts took place ages ago. That process of mind-numbing imitation of Indian/Western culture, politics, etc., is an outstanding exhibition of just how weak Pakistan considers itself. There is no evidence of firmness and strength here. Please do correct me if I am wrong.

Regarding the govt. Surely corruption is not confined to the political class, but is also present in the military, and rife at every level of society. When has Pakistan been free of such corruption? To await the coming of a saviour (in the shape of Imran Khan or whatever) who, heavily armed with weapons of mass destruction and a purified (from all corruption) Pakistani populace, taking on the evil-doers and defeating them, is to transport oneself to the realms of wishful thinking. Such realms do not exist. Nor have they ever.

Given the rise of internecine conflicts - sectarian, tribal, political, etc - in Pakistan, since the acquisition of the nuclear capability, ought to be sufficient proof that it alone cannot and will never resolve problems. At either national or international level. Is this not a self-evident truth? Can the nuclear "deterrent" be employed against those in the country who are targetting military and other installations and locations?

If we take a step back from discussing the merits - or otherwise - of nuclear wepons, and observe the state of Muslim nations and societies, we arrive at the inevitable conclusion that matters have worsened considerably over the decades. That is an undeniable fact. Now, either we blame the iniquitous doings of Indians, Americans, Zionists, etc., or we engage in a degree of reflection and introspection, in order to determine the underlying causes of the fragmentary state of the collective Ummah.

Surah 13 Ar-Ra'd, Verse 11
..Verily, Allah does not change men's condition unless they change their inner selves; and when Allah wills people to suffer (in consequence of their own evil deeds) there is none who could avert it: for they have none who could protect them from HIM.

Thus, to believe that nuclear weapons are the solution to the problems of Pakistan and/or the entire Muslim Ummah, is utterly absurd. And I say this with utmost respect.

Surah 30, Ar-Rum, Verse 41
(Since they have become oblivious of Allah) corruption has appeared on land and in the sea as an outcome of what men's hands have wrought: and so HE will let them taste (the evil of) some of their doings, so that they might return (to the right path)

Finally: a quick point about discussions amongst Muslims in particular, and non-Muslims generally. They must always, but always be characterized by courtesy, respect, tolerance, generosity and patiance. There is absolutely no justification for debates to descend into futile argumentations and disputes. We must all seek to engage at a much higher level of intellectual discourse. One that befits us as human beings, and believers.

That being said, I reiterate my own position. I will not respond to any attacks of a personal nature, nor will I ever engage in verbal fistifcuffs. Hasbee-Allah.

As Salaamu 'Alaykum

 

[DHONI183]

Dhoni you have no idea what your talking about. Maybe youve read to many children books and I understand you live in a dream world.. maybe you need to get in touch with reality.

I wonder what you have been reading into.......

You think........

"Today Pakistan made all the muslims proud and united,
Today Pakistan gave hope to the children in Palestine,
To our brothers and sisters in Kashmir
TODAY We gave HOPE to the MUSLIMS
if it was not for 28th May then Muslims would not have existed.
TODAY ALLAH ALMIGHTY gave PAKISTAN its gift."

Maybe you need to get in touch with the reality....... Perhaps?

Mocking the point of Kissenger proves to me you have squat idea of what you are talking about. If you had any idea you would understand the relevance of Iran with respect Israel with respect to Palestines with respect to Pakistan with respect to Nukes. Ask yourself why Islamic nations have been prevented from developing nukes and nations as India have not?

Could you please stay on topic if it is somehow possible for you?

Why are you repeatedly discussing politics with me since I hardly objected to a certain few things?

Please read the following part from my earlier post.......

I have been dragged into the debate for no reasons. My objection was only for it being a "romantic" day to be proud of, and for atom bomb being a "gift" from God.

Another re-post for others......

Go world, make atom bombs, be proud and call it a "gift" from God Almighty.

With peace!

 

[jzdanish]

I wonder what you have been reading into.......

You think........

"Today Pakistan made all the muslims proud and united,
Today Pakistan gave hope to the children in Palestine,
To our brothers and sisters in Kashmir
TODAY We gave HOPE to the MUSLIMS
if it was not for 28th May then Muslims would not have existed.
TODAY ALLAH ALMIGHTY gave PAKISTAN its gift."

Maybe you need to get in touch with the reality....... Perhaps?



Could you please stay on topic if it is somehow possible for you?

Why are you repeatedly discussing politics with me since I hardly objected to a certain few things?

Please read the following part from my earlier post.......



Another re-post for others......



With peace!

Dhoni You are to blind to comprehend the fact which Namak made and which is exactly why I am refering to it as a romantic day. Maybe you need to start reflecting on what you read more once.

In Islam, nothing takes place without the permission of God. NOTHING. So if Pakistan was able to make the atom bomb..fill in the gaps. It is a romantic day and we thank AllAH ALMIGHTY for giving us the capability to make the atom bomb. We are forever thankful to AQ KHAN and he is a and will forever remain a hero for Muslims.

If you still somehow cant comprehend my point with ''romantic day'' due to what Namak said, i.e. relevance to Palestine to Israel to Pakistan nukes then you need help.

 

[abdulqadir786]

Add the fact that people like Lakhvi who have been named in 26/11 even by the US and the LET chief are openly roaming aorund giving speeches in Pakistan

Why are you replying to my post by referring to the Mumbai drama no one gives a darn about it amigo.

 

[Khan6575]

Dhoni You are to blind to comprehend the fact which Namak made and which is exactly why I am refering to it as a romantic day. Maybe you need to start reflecting on what you read more once.

In Islam, nothing takes place without the permission of God. NOTHING. So if Pakistan was able to make the atom bomb..fill in the gaps. It is a romantic day and we thank AllAH ALMIGHTY for giving us the capability to make the atom bomb. We are forever thankful to AQ KHAN and he is a and will forever remain a hero for Muslims.

If you still somehow cant comprehend my point with ''romantic day'' due to what Namak said, i.e. relevance to Palestine to Israel to Pakistan nukes then you need help.

You are one misguided individual to say the least. According to your logic Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans, and recently people of Waziristan deserve getting slaughtered because god has given the go ahead for them to be murdered and displaced.

By the same logic when a Muslims commits a sin he has the permission of god. Ridiculous arguments on your part.

There is nothing wrong with being proud of the bomb but to twist this accomplishment by bringing our religion into it is really sad and disrespectful. Being proud is one thing, constantly chest-thumping and making false claims just to further your argument is quite childish.

 

[jzdanish]

You are one misguided individual to say the least. According to your logic Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans, and recently people of Waziristan deserve getting slaughtered because god has given the go ahead for them to be murdered and displaced.

By the same logic when a Muslims commits a sin he has the permission of god. Ridiculous arguments on your part.

There is nothing wrong with being proud of the bomb but to twist this accomplishment by bringing our religion into it is really sad and disrespectful. Being proud is one thing, constantly chest-thumping and making false claims just to further your argument is quite childish.

There it is! I was waiting for it! What you are simply stating is that Allah is not all powerful? Does anything in this world take place without the permission of Allah? Is that you are saying? Shame really. I am chest thumping and I am extremely proud because Allah gave us the capability of producing the nuclear weapon, which we should thank Allah everyday for. Maybe you want to thank the universe or some idol but we muslims believe in Allah so you to your belief me to mine. My argument is not childish, it is your twisted mind which falls to understand how a nuclear bomb can help Muslims and the Islamic world. The nuclear bomb made all Muslims proud and it did indeed give hope to the children in palestine, to kashmir to every muslim nation in the world that finally there will be a balance in the power. Not only do jewish, christians and hindus have nuclear capability but finally Islam does as well. Maybe you dont want muslims to have the capability to defend themselves which is your right, you can have your own opinion but to state it as a fact is simply disgusting. However, again, have you thought that it is due to our pathethic and corrupted governments that we have not been able to be united and been able to provide help to other muslim countries? The nuclear capability is the SOLE reason why India has not been able to nuclear-blackmail us. Maybe you want us to get blackmailed but I for one will walk with my chest out knowing that we managed to create a nuclear bomb which was a NEARLY impossible thing to pull off and in the future, when we have a honest government, we will be able to look into the eyes of our enemies and guard our national interests without the need to bow down.

 

[jzdanish]

There is nothing wrong with being proud of the bomb but to twist this accomplishment by bringing our religion into it is really sad and disrespectful. Being proud is one thing, constantly chest-thumping and making false claims just to further your argument is quite childish.

And read the posts where I have directly quoted A.Q Khan who holds the EXACT same point of view as me. So stop labeling A.Q as a child because his reasons are exactly the same as mine. I wonder how people how Pakistanis can label A.Q khan.. nonsense really!

 

[Khan6575]

How do you view Zaid Hamid? Would you say he is your idol?

Do you follow Alex Jones on Youtube?

 

[jzdanish]

Zaid Hamid is my idol for his programs on Allama Iqbal, khilafat e rashida, economic terrorism, Yeh GHAZI, Spiritual dimensions of Pakistan and the list can go on and on. Just because you have seen a selected few video clips I urge you not to base your judgement upon them.

Take a look at the following series;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gmuD2JOXdM

Let me know what you think of Zaid Hamid after watching it.

 

[Khan6575]

Okay, thank you for your answer.

 

[jzdanish]

And yes I watch Alex jones when they interview Hamid Gul specifically as he is my idol as well along with Imran Khan.

 

[Jadz]

Danish - in respect of the following:

The nuclear bomb made all Muslims proud and it did indeed give hope to the children in palestine, to kashmir to every muslim nation in the world that finally there will be a balance in the power. Not only do jewish, christians and hindus have nuclear capability but finally Islam does as well

You are issuing blanket generalizations here. To assert that the nuclear bomb made all Muslims proud is absurd. Clearly, this discussion itself proves that you are incorrect. Many Pakistanis and/or Muslims are neither proud nor relieved about the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction.

To further state that Palestinian/Kashmiri children were hopeful upon news of Pakistan's development of the so-called deterrent weapon, is also absurd. How and why were they filled with hope? Was Pakistan preparing to drop the bomb on the Zionist state and India on their behalf? Where is unity amongst Muslims? In reality, the bomb is but a national possession and is not for the purposes of rescuing the entire Muslim world from its oppressors.

You are claiming that the nuclear bomb caused a shift in the balance of power in world affairs? Really? How? Where is this balance which you proclaim to have been created? Is Pakistan now a permanent member of the Security Council? Has peace in the sub-Continent or Muslim world been achieved ? Pakistan as well as other Muslim countries lack moral authority in the world. Which is why they are used as pawns in power-struggles. Only moral authority guarantees balance. That massive imbalances in virtually all areas exist upon the planet is a given.

To associate nuclear weapons with Religion is misguided. There is no such thing as a Christian, Jewish or Hindu bomb. The US, UK and France govts can hardly be described as Christian. The Zionist state is not, I repeat, not a Jewish state. If you have doubts about this, then use your search engine to discover just how many Jewish groups/organisations are opposed to the Zionist state. As for the Hindu bomb, unless it can be proved that Hindu Scripture expressly permits and preaches the production and/or use of weapons of mass destruction, such a designation must be rejected.

I understand your attachment to the bomb, and your belief that it promotes and ensures peace. But take a step back from your position, and examine the state of Pakistan with objective eyes. Is it, or is it not, in dire straits?

The belief that Pakistan has a soveriegn right to safeguard its interests is not in dispute -

Surah 8 Al-Anfaal, Verse 60
And get ready against them whatever you can of force and well-fed horses with which you may overpower Allah's enemy and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know; Allah knows them. And whatever you spend in the Way of Allah shall be repaid to you in full, and you shall not be wronged.

But, it is the how which is at issue. Muslims are required to adopt the right means in order to achieve a right end. Is the acquisition of the nuclear bomb the right means in order to achieve a right end? Wa Llahu 'Alam

As Salaamu 'Alaykum

 

[jzdanish]

Danish - in respect of the following:

The nuclear bomb made all Muslims proud and it did indeed give hope to the children in palestine, to kashmir to every muslim nation in the world that finally there will be a balance in the power. Not only do jewish, christians and hindus have nuclear capability but finally Islam does as well

You are issuing blanket generalizations here. To assert that the nuclear bomb made all Muslims proud is absurd. Clearly, this discussion itself proves that you are incorrect. Many Pakistanis and/or Muslims are neither proud nor relieved about the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction. Point 1

To further state that Palestinian/Kashmiri children were hopeful upon news of Pakistan's development of the so-called deterrent weapon, is also absurd. How and why were they filled with hope? Was Pakistan preparing to drop the bomb on the Zionist state and India on their behalf? Where is unity amongst Muslims? In reality, the bomb is but a national possession and is not for the purposes of rescuing the entire Muslim world from its oppressors.

You are claiming that the nuclear bomb caused a shift in the balance of power in world affairs? Really? How? Where is this balance which you proclaim to have been created? Is Pakistan now a permanent member of the Security Council? Has peace in the sub-Continent or Muslim world been achieved ? Pakistan as well as other Muslim countries lack moral authority in the world. Which is why they are used as pawns in power-struggles. Only moral authority guarantees balance. That massive imbalances in virtually all areas exist upon the planet is a given.

To associate nuclear weapons with Religion is misguided. There is no such thing as a Christian, Jewish or Hindu bomb. The US, UK and France govts can hardly be described as Christian. The Zionist state is not, I repeat, not a Jewish state. If you have doubts about this, then use your search engine to discover just how many Jewish groups/organisations are opposed to the Zionist state. As for the Hindu bomb, unless it can be proved that Hindu Scripture expressly permits and preaches the production and/or use of weapons of mass destruction, such a designation must be rejected.

I understand your attachment to the bomb, and your belief that it promotes and ensures peace. But take a step back from your position, and examine the state of Pakistan with objective eyes. Is it, or is it not, in dire straits?

The belief that Pakistan has a soveriegn right to safeguard its interests is not in dispute -

Surah 8 Al-Anfaal, Verse 60
And get ready against them whatever you can of force and well-fed horses with which you may overpower Allah's enemy and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know; Allah knows them. And whatever you spend in the Way of Allah shall be repaid to you in full, and you shall not be wronged.

But, it is the how which is at issue. Muslims are required to adopt the right means in order to achieve a right end. Is the acquisition of the nuclear bomb the right means in order to achieve a right end? Wa Llahu 'Alam

As Salaamu 'Alaykum

Sister Jadz, Are you not making the same generalizations as me? Clearly how does this discussion disproves my point? You are making the same exact generalizations as me - as per your thinking.

Jadz do you know the difference between having a honest government and a corrupted one? If you do, then ask yourself, if Pakistan had a honest government, with nuclear capability would we not be in a situation to alteast stand for our rights? To support the muslims over the world? To have a voice for the muslims? Would we bend over and take dictations? If you think a nuclear capability has no effect on this then Sister Jadz I dont know what to say as simply, I have quoted A.Q Khan, who holds exactly the same point of view and highlights the importance of attaining nuclear capability in order not be nuclear-blackmailed specifically by India and by the rest of the world. No where did I claim that Pakistan would drop nukes but alteast we would be in a position where we can defend ourselves. I have always claimed that a nuclear bomb would create a balance in power had we not had the utter foolish government but you seem to not comprehend such a fact. I think you can not distinguish between a honest government and a corrupted one - which has nuclear capability. When you do figure it out, then post a reply and read the quotes of A.Q Khan I have posted in this thread which further back my claim.

P.S reason around why the western world and India is trying to denuclearize Pakistan? Answer me that.

 

[jzdanish]

"The ultimate goal of the game being played with Pakistan is to declare us an ungovernable state that should not posses the nuclear arsenal.

"This scenario will give security to Israel, weaken China, and give relief to India for becoming a dominant power of the region and establish its hegemony. Only Pakistan is holding India from establishing its hegemony in the region," he says.

The former master spy has his own thinking on what he terms as a great game being played in this region.

"Who is providing security to Nepal and Bangladesh? Amazingly, it is Pakistan. Around 60 per cent of the world's trade passes through the Indian Ocean. The Indians believe they should have hegemony not only over Pakistan but the entire Indian Ocean. That means the Arabs will suffer, Iran will suffer and Gulf oil, bound for China and Japan, will be under the shadow of India's sole nuclear power," he said.

Gul says Pakistan provides a balance of power in the region unconventionally. "Conventionally, we can't aim to provide a balance of power. Therefore, it is in the interest of the region and Pakistan that there should be a balance of power between the South Asian neighbours. But Americans and Israel is and hell-bent that India should be given pre-eminence in the region."

http://lalqila.wordpress.com/2011/0...oldiers-still-have-nightmares-of-what-gul-an/


Maybe this will open your eyes Jadz.

 

[jzdanish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilij8DZCjP4

WATCH FROM 04.40 onwards Jadz

 

[Namak_Halaal]

Could you please stay on topic if it is somehow possible for you?

Why are you repeatedly discussing politics with me since I hardly objected to a certain few things?

!

I am on topic, with respect to the OP. It's just that you are oblivious to the information I am posting which makes you think I am off topic.

Oh well.

 

[Jadz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilij8DZCjP4

WATCH FROM 04.40 onwards Jadz

Danish - thanks so much Brother for the quotes and link. I found them both interesting and informative. I have acquired much in the way of knowledge from these exchanges between us. Many thanks for that too.

As mentioned earlier, I understand your position regarding Pakistan's nuclear capability, and respect it.

Just a quick note: nationalistic pride must never descend into xenophobic displays of intolerance, racism and aggression.

For the rest, I invite you to reflect upon the Ayaat quoted in my earlier posts. No-one and no nation may attain security and stability independantly of the Will of Allah SWT.

As Salaamu 'Alaykum

 

[jzdanish]

Thank you for your reply sister Jadz. I have another video clip for you, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOuXpapjCQ8&feature=youtu.be . Please just watch from 04.00-05.15 specifically! Then you will understand the importance in order for peace, for tolerance, security and stability this nuclear weapon was important for muslims!

 

[DHONI183]

Dhoni You are to blind to comprehend the fact which Namak made and which is exactly why I am refering to it as a romantic day. Maybe you need to start reflecting on what you read more once.

In Islam, nothing takes place without the permission of God. NOTHING. So if Pakistan was able to make the atom bomb..fill in the gaps. It is a romantic day and we thank AllAH ALMIGHTY for giving us the capability to make the atom bomb. We are forever thankful to AQ KHAN and he is a and will forever remain a hero for Muslims.

If you still somehow cant comprehend my point with ''romantic day'' due to what Namak said, i.e. relevance to Palestine to Israel to Pakistan nukes then you need help.

Dear Danish, I respect your passion and affection for Pakistan and the Muslims around the world, however your thinking and points get even more stupid as the thread progresses forward.

Everything in this world truly takes place with the permission of God and His order. He says "be!" and it becomes so (Al-Qur´an 2:117, 3: 47, 6:73, 16: 40, 19:35, 36:82, 40: 68). However, it is also a fact that many things happen which are not supported by God but still happen. It is just that He lets such acts go by so that He punishes the wrong-doers at the right time.

That logic does not quite help your cause. Though it is for once difficult, but I would try to be as polite to you as I possibly can so that you catch not the wrong side of the world.

I am on topic, with respect to the OP. It's just that you are oblivious to the information I am posting which makes you think I am off topic.

Oh well.

Namak, with this post you further clarified how hard it is for you to stay on topic of our discussion. You can continue everything in support of the opening post, but you quoted me for no reasons really. Another re-post may help you.......

I have been dragged into the debate for no reasons. My objection was only for it being a "romantic" day to be proud of, and for atom bomb being a "gift" from God.

With peace!

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Allahu akbar<br>It’s our <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/YoumeTakbeer?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#YoumeTakbeer</a> when Pakistan became the nuclear power. Zindabad always <a href="https://t.co/T20Xh9BpL4">pic.twitter.com/T20Xh9BpL4</a></p>— Hassan Ali (@RealHa55an) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealHa55an/status/1398151595834105857?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 28, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[OMB]

On This Day: Pakistan becomes a nuclear power


On May 28, 1998, Pakistan announced that it had successfully conducted five nuclear tests


Twenty-three long years ago, on May 28, 1998, Pakistan announced that it had successfully conducted five nuclear tests.

23 years ago on this day, Pakistan restored balance of power in the region by successfully establishing credible minimum nuclear deterrence. AFs and the nation pays tribute to all those involved in making this dream come true.
— DG ISPR

The Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) reported that the tests conducted on May 28 generated a seismic signal of 5.0 on the Richter scale, with a total yield of up to 40 KT.

Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme architect Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan claimed that one device was a boosted fission device and that the other four were sub-kiloton nuclear devices. Following this, on 30 May 1998, Pakistan tested yet another nuclear warhead with a reported yield of 12 kilotons.

Chagai-I:

The nuclear tests were performed at Ras Koh Hills in the Chagai district of Balochistan. Chagai-I was Pakistan's first public test of nuclear weapons. Its timing was a strategic response to India's second nuclear tests, on 11 and 13 May 1998.

The total number of claimed tests was six, with another device reportedly being left undetonated.

Socio-Political Climate:

As Pakistan became one of the nine states to possess nuclear weapons, it is pertinent to note that it came on the heels of India conducting its own nuclear tests.

Since the timing of Chagai-I was a strategic, yet direct response to India's second nuclear tests, it is argued that 28th May marks the day that prevented war between India and Pakistan

Operation Brasstacks:

Planned and executed by the Indian Army, Operation Brasstacks was a major combined arms military exercise of the Indian Armed Forces in the Rajasthan state of India, adjacent to the border with Pakistan. It took place in 1986.

While India claims that the operation was merely to test the new concepts in Indian warfare, over 600,000 Indian troops had been amassed near the border of Pakistan - which is precisely why many claims revolve around Operation Brasstacks not being a military exercise, but a scheme to build up the situation for a fourth war with Pakistan.

Timeline:

In December 1989, armed resistance to Indian rule in occupied Kashmir began with support from Pakistan. Then in April 1990, a crisis in the valley broke out as Indian military mobilisation threatened to incite war between India and Pakistan. Following this, in May 1998, India detonated five nuclear devices - and in response, Pakistan claimed six detonations, averting a full-scale India-Pakistan war.

Brief History of Pakistan's Nuclear Programme:

Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme was established in 1972 by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, who founded the programme while he was minister for fuel, power and natural resources, and later became president and prime minister. Shortly after the loss of East Pakistan in the 1971 war with India, Bhutto initiated the programme with a meeting of physicists and engineers at Multan in January 1972.

According to Pakistan's Nuclear Weapons Program archives, India's test created an untenable situation for then Prime Minister Mohammad Nawaz Sharif. In the wake of India's tests, Pakistan felt an urgent need to demonstrate its own prowess in a similar manner for many reasons - to deny India the unilateral technical advantage it might have gained from conducting tests and to revise the power dynamics between the two countries.

Pressure for test spanned the political spectrum from liberals like opposition leader Benazir Bhutto to the religious right. Bhutto reportedly went so far as to declare that "if there is the military capability to eliminate India's nuclear capacity, it should be used."

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2302130/on-this-day-pakistan-becomes-a-nuclear-power

 

[Last Monetarist]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Youm e Takbeer Mubarak &#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816;<br>May the Almighty Allah always strengthen and help our armed forces and protect our beloved country.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Youm_e_Takbeer?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Youm_e_Takbeer</a> <a href="https://t.co/yQ44cqKa4T">pic.twitter.com/yQ44cqKa4T</a></p>— Imad Wasim (@simadwasim) <a href="https://twitter.com/simadwasim/status/1398233234358648833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 28, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>