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All-time South Africa XI?

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Ted123

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Here we go:

Smith(c)
Kirsten/ Barry( if we consider him)
Amla
Pollock
Kallis
ABDV( wkt)
Procter
Pollock
Tayfield( spin)
Steyn
Donald
 
1) Smith (c)
2) Kirsten
3) Amla
4) Kallis
5) de Villiers
6) Faf (?)
7) Boucher (wk)
8) Pollock
9) Philander
10) Steyn
11) Donald
 
Richards
Smith
Kallis
Pollock G
De Villiers
Rice (capt)
Proctor
Boucher (w)
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald
 
(No minimum criteria, alternative 20 Test minimum choices in brackets)

Smith *
Richards (H. Gibbs)
Amla
G. Pollock
Kallis
DeVilliers
M. Procter (Tayfield, to bat at #9)
Boucher +
S.Pollock
Steyn
Donald

No spinner - the quicks are better choices.
 
G.C.Smith
H.H.Gibbs
H.M.Amla
A.B.De Villers
J.Kallis
J.Rhodes
M. Boucher(wk)
S.Pollock
A.Donald
M.Ntini
D.Steyn
 
Am I the only one that thinks Makhaya Ntini should feature in an all time SA XI???
 
Robert said:
Richards
Smith
Kallis
Pollock G
De Villiers
Rice (capt)
Proctor
Boucher (w)
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald
Click to expand...

Kallis was not better than Amla at #3 and ABD is certainly not a better batsman than #.
 
Bilal7 said:
Kallis was not better than Amla at #3 and ABD is certainly not a better batsman than #.
Click to expand...

It's his opinion as someone who's followed all of there careers he will be a good person to judge.

Not everyone rated your precious Amla as much as you. I think anyone who has followed South African cricket for 30/40 years could leave Amla out .
 
Hasan123 said:
It's his opinion as someone who's followed all of there careers he will be a good person to judge.

Not everyone rated your precious Amla as much as you. I think anyone who has followed South African cricket for 30/40 years could leave Amla out .
Click to expand...

To be fair it's a valid point, he stated Amla is better than Kallis as a #3 which is backed up by the stats. Kallis batted most of the time at #4.

AB is a great batter but I'm not sure he's overall a better Test batsman than Amla.

No idea about Graeme Pollock though.
 
Abdullah719 said:
To be fair it's a valid point, he stated Amla is better than Kallis as a #3 which is backed up by the stats. Kallis batted most of the time at #4.

AB is a great batter but I'm not sure he's overall a better Test batsman than Amla.

No idea about Graeme Pollock though.
Click to expand...

Amla is probably better than ABD in tests but I think Robert is trying to fit the other players in plus a 5th bowler hence Kallis inclusion.

My only point is that Amla isn't a given to be in everyone's South Africa all time 11. Would be interesting to see [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] and [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] 11.
 
There'll be two teams selected out of necessity, one wholly on merit:

1. Graeme Smith (c)
2. Barry Richards
3. Hashim Amla
4. Jacques Kallis
5. Graeme Pollock
6. Aubrey Faulkner
7. Mike Procter
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Mark Boucher
10. Dale Steyn
11. Allan Donald

And a second team which reflects transformation quotas to include a minimum of 5 players of colour:

1. Graeme Smith (c)
2. Herschelle Gibbs
3. Hashim Amla
4. Jacques Kallis
5. Graeme Pollock
6. Mike Procter
7. Mark Boucher
8. Kagiso Rabada
9. Allan Donald
10. Makhaya Ntini
11. Paul Adams
 
Hasan123 said:
Amla is probably better than ABD in tests but I think Robert is trying to fit the other players in plus a 5th bowler hence Kallis inclusion.

My only point is that Amla isn't a given to be in everyone's South Africa all time 11. Would be interesting to see [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] and [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] 11.
Click to expand...

Don't talk if you have no idea on the subject. Graeme Pollock played 20 test matches and Kallis simply was not a great #3, unlike Amla. Neither does ABD make the team over a batsman like Amla.

Of course, someone who rates Cook a 9.5 out of 10 in test cricket because reasons is simply not a good judge of batsmen.
 
Hasan123 said:
Amla is probably better than ABD in tests but I think Robert is trying to fit the other players in plus a 5th bowler hence Kallis inclusion.

My only point is that Amla isn't a given to be in everyone's South Africa all time 11. Would be interesting to see [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] and [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] 11.
Click to expand...

I think, I'll go with something very close to Roberts. However, since Kallis bowls, that side is too much bowler heavy - I'll drop Rice (he didn't play a single Test) and pick one more batsman. And, I'll keep with AB to accommodate Dudley Nourse.

1. Smith*
2. BA Richards
3. Kallis
4. G Pollock
5. AD Nourse
6. AB+
7. Procter
8. S Pollock
9. Styen
10. Tayfield
11. Donald

If BA Richards and Procter doesn't make it for minimum No. of Tests, then I'll go for Amla and probably Eddi Barlow.

Great team - probably fight with ENG & PAK for 3rd best all-time team.

This team actually indicates crickets greatest loss for SAF's isolation. If I make another team with players that couldn't fulfill their potential, it'll be almost as good, taking Richards, G Pollock, Garth Le Roux, VVd Boyel, Mckewan, Rice, Lindsey .... in that team. Also, players like Lamb, Smith (Robin & Chris), Greig, Jackman played for England - they were actually SAF players.
 
  1. Barry Richards
  2. Graeme Smith ( Captain )
  3. Jacques Kallis
  4. Graeme Pollock
  5. Dudley Nourse
  6. AB de Villiers ( Keeper)
  7. Shaun Pollock
  8. Mike Procter
  9. Dale Steyn
  10. Allan Donald
  11. Hugh Tayfield

Most of them pick themselves so it's an easy task here. Heavy with all rounders, but then SA has produced more quality all rounders than any other nation.
 
1. Richards
2. Smith
3. Amla
4. Pollock
5. Kallis
6. AB (Wk)
7. Faulkner
8. Procter
9. Pollock
10. Steyn
11. Donald
 
Bilal7 said:
Kallis was not better than Amla at #3 and ABD is certainly not a better batsman than #.
Click to expand...

Would have to do something with the batting position.Not including Kallis in alltime SA XI is unfair and so is the exclusion of G Pollock.

AB is competing for 5th position where he has no stiff competition.
 
AB is underrated in tests.

He is no ATG but between 2008-2015, there were just 2-3 series he failed, two of them a 2 test series like in India 2009/2010 and SL 2014.
 
Ab Fan said:
Would have to do something with the batting position.Not including Kallis in alltime SA XI is unfair and so is the exclusion of G Pollock.

AB is competing for 5th position where he has no stiff competition.
Click to expand...

Pollock played a grand total of 20 test matches. Excluding him is pretty fair. Amla, Kallis and ABD have achieved far more than Pollock and Richards ever did.
 
Bilal7 said:
Pollock played a grand total of 20 test matches. Excluding him is pretty fair. Amla, Kallis and ABD have achieved far more than Pollock and Richards ever did.
Click to expand...

But the general perception is that G Pollock is one of the best batsmen in the world. And although we are free to exclude him but those who watched him can include him.
 
Bilal7 said:
Don't talk if you have no idea on the subject. Graeme Pollock played 20 test matches and Kallis simply was not a great #3, unlike Amla. Neither does ABD make the team over a batsman like Amla.

Of course, someone who rates Cook a 9.5 out of 10 in test cricket because reasons is simply not a good judge of batsmen.
Click to expand...


Someone who rates Amla as the 2nd greatest ODI opener is a good judge?

There's no need to get personal with me just because some people don't rate your precious Amla as much as you do.
 
I'm surprised that no one besides me picked Jonty Rhodes. That man needs to be in for his fielding alone. Was a useful bat too.

With Smith, Amla, ABD and Kallis batting, and Steyn, Donald, Ntini, Kallis, and Pollock doing the bowling, a fielder like Rhodes would be the perfect addition to a team.
 
Ted123 said:
You would pick de Villiers over Amla? Also, no place for S Pollock?
Click to expand...
I wanted to include Rice. But his bowling becomes less important with Kallis as fourth seamer, so you could have Amla for Rice.

As for Sean Pollock, I prefer Proctor. Dunno which two would get the new ball though.
 
I can only really say 1990-onwards:

1. G Smith
2. G. Kirsten
3. Amla
4. Kallis
5. AB D
6. Gibbs / Faf
7. De Kock (way better all-round option than Boucher, will probably be recognized as one of SA's best ever players by the end, although everyone loved Boucher)
8. Pollock
9. Maharaj (best test spinner SA have had since 1990)
10. Steyn
11. Donald
 
Bilal7 said:
1) Smith (c)
2) Kirsten
3) Amla
4) Kallis
5) de Villiers
6) Faf (?)
7) Boucher (wk)
8) Pollock
9) Philander
10) Steyn
11) Donald
Click to expand...

Instead of having Faf, would you not do Amla 3, G Pollock 4, Kallis 5, De Villiers 6 - pretty epic middle order that.
 
FreePalestine said:
I can only really say 1990-onwards:

1. G Smith
2. G. Kirsten
3. Amla
4. Kallis
5. AB D
6. Gibbs / Faf
7. De Kock (way better all-round option than Boucher, will probably be recognized as one of SA's best ever players by the end, although everyone loved Boucher)
8. Pollock
9. Maharaj (best test spinner SA have had since 1990)
10. Steyn
11. Donald
Click to expand...

Cullinan is better than Faf or Gibbs.
 
James said:
Instead of having Faf, would you not do Amla 3, G Pollock 4, Kallis 5, De Villiers 6 - pretty epic middle order that.
Click to expand...

My only issuw with Pollock is that he played no more than 20 test matches. Quite a small sample-size, don't you think?
 
Bilal7 said:
My only issuw with Pollock is that he played no more than 20 test matches. Quite a small sample-size, don't you think?
Click to expand...

His record across those 20ish Tests is ridiculously good though. Worth a mention. Also as another example Shane Bond only played 18 Tests, but often gets put into the top cricketing tiers.
 
Ab Fan said:
Cullinan is better than Faf or Gibbs.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I only really saw Cullinan towards the end of his career when he was pretty rubbish. But I heard he was very good when he was younger. Gibbs was one of my fave players throughout his career, so pretty tough to beat. Would still pick him over Cullinan purely on the basis of the little I have seen of C.
 
  1. Graeme Smith
  2. Barry Richards
  3. Graeme Pollock
  4. Jacque Kallis
  5. Dudley Nourse
  6. AB Devilliers (wk)
  7. Aubrey Faulkner
  8. Mike Procter
  9. Dale Steyn
  10. Hugh Tayfield
  11. Allan Donald

Beastly line up. Genuine batting till No.8. 3 quality fast bowlers + Kallis. An offiie and a leggie to round up the attack and you've got a team for all conditions. Very hard to leave players like Pollock and Amla out.
 
Buffet said:
  1. Barry Richards
  2. Graeme Smith ( Captain )
  3. Jacques Kallis
  4. Graeme Pollock
  5. Dudley Nourse
  6. AB de Villiers ( Keeper)
  7. Shaun Pollock
  8. Mike Procter
  9. Dale Steyn
  10. Allan Donald
  11. Hugh Tayfield

Most of them pick themselves so it's an easy task here. Heavy with all rounders, but then SA has produced more quality all rounders than any other nation.
Click to expand...
If SA needs to make progress, new players needs to replace some older names here. That's always a good way to measure progress for any test team. If none of them can be replcaed for a long time then it means, progress is stalled.

Greatness of last generation is visible, so many players make it here.

Can Rabada make a case to replce some one?

Who else?
 
My all-time SA XI (this is applicable for both Test and ODI):

Graeme Smith (c)
Gibbs
Amla
Kallis
AB De Villiers
JP Duminy
Boucher (wk)
Pollock
Steyn
Maharaj
Donald.
 
sweep_shot said:
My all-time SA XI (this is applicable for both Test and ODI):

Graeme Smith (c)
Gibbs
Amla
Kallis
AB De Villiers
JP Duminy
Boucher (wk)
Pollock
Steyn
Maharaj
Donald.
Click to expand...
Assuming this is for players you have seen.

I will normally not have the same all time XI for test and ODI both. It's hard to have the same 11 players as the best in both formats. Anyway, does not matter as long as it's your test XI because it's for test.
 
Buffet said:
Assuming this is for players you have seen.

I will normally not have the same all time XI for test and ODI both. It's hard to have the same 11 players as the best in both formats. Anyway, does not matter as long as it's your test XI because it's for test.
Click to expand...

Yes. These are the players I have seen.

I was tempted to add Klusener but went with JP Duminy.
 
Graeme Pollock is a must. It was often believed by his peers and contemporaries during his time that he would go on to break the Test record of most Test runs and most Test centuries by the time he retired. Bradman considered him the best left handed batsman he ever saw alongside the great Garfield Sobers.

Such a shame we were deprived of such an extraordinary talent.​
 
Hitman said:
Graeme Pollock is a must. It was often believed by his peers and contemporaries during his time that he would go on to break the Test record of most Test runs and most Test centuries by the time he retired. Bradman considered him the best left handed batsman he ever saw alongside the great Garfield Sobers.

Such a shame we were deprived of such an extraordinary talent.​
Click to expand...
He was in class of top tier batsmen, only issue will be picking him based on 20-22 tests. Some may see it as very little international cricket and some may ignore this factor to pick him there. Either is fine.

Yes, we lost the chance to see someone great. In fact, it would have been great to see SA team playing against great WI team.
 
Smith (c)
Kristen
Gibbs
Amla
G Pollock
Kallis
Villiers (wk)
Philander
S Pollock
Steyn
Donald
 
Post readmission:-

Smith
Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
ABDV
Qdk(wkt)
S Pollock
Maharaj
Rabada
Steyn
Donald

Batting is weak but fast bowling is one of the best ever and in all conditions.

Qdk playing in this team showcases how much overrated Mark Boucher as a player was. Never really took his batting to next level and he barely had to keep to any world class spinner.
 
Fanboy375 said:
Yeah but Philander has batting capability also even without Rabada bowling line up is still dangerous
Click to expand...
Rabada is more handy batter than vernon. I think Rabada has done more to earn a place in all time 11
 
Fanboy375 said:
Yeah but Philander has batting capability also even without Rabada bowling line up is still dangerous
Click to expand...

Pollock is a much better batter. Philander is a condition specific bowler. Rabada is all conditions bowler.
 
Ab Fan said:
Pollock is a much better batter. Philander is a condition specific bowler. Rabada is all conditions bowler.
Click to expand...
Yeah I rate Raba over Phil as a bowler but I he is picked because of his batting.Pollock too is good bowling all rounder.I also pick his father.
 
Rabada in my opinion is best South African pacers of all conditions after Steyn. So he has to be in an all time XI now
 
Hitman said:
Graeme Pollock is a must. It was often believed by his peers and contemporaries during his time that he would go on to break the Test record of most Test runs and most Test centuries by the time he retired. Bradman considered him the best left handed batsman he ever saw alongside the great Garfield Sobers.

Such a shame we were deprived of such an extraordinary talent.​
Click to expand...
Yeah He is one if the best and probably best SA batsman.He probably will have 56-60 ave if SA played 70s
 
Ab Fan said:
Post readmission:-

Smith
Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
ABDV
Qdk(wkt)
S Pollock
Maharaj
Rabada
Steyn
Donald

Batting is weak but fast bowling is one of the best ever and in all conditions.

Qdk playing in this team showcases how much overrated Mark Boucher as a player was. Never really took his batting to next level and he barely had to keep to any world class spinner.
Click to expand...
Rabada steyn Pollock donald

What an attack. Incredible.

Crazy thing is 3 of them have a good record in Asia too. Well in India atleast. Possibly due to facing a weak india in 2000 but still counts for something.

Steyn though was incredible in India.

I genuinely feel SA have the goat pace attack by far. Better than even aus.
 
Ab Fan said:
Cullinan is better than Faf or Gibbs.
Click to expand...
Cullinan was very poor vs aus. Hence I don't rate him highly. Pollock too for this reason gets marked down for me. Got to perform vs the best in those times.
 
kron said:
Cullinan was very poor vs aus. Hence I don't rate him highly. Pollock too for this reason gets marked down for me. Got to perform vs the best in those times.
Click to expand...
He was Warne's bunny. He got embarrassed by Warne to such an extent that apparently he had to go see a shrink. Warne later found out and when Cullinan came out to bat in the 1997-98 Melbourne test, Warne said this to him: "Daryll, I’ve waited so long for this moment and I’m going to send you straight back to that leather couch.’'

A couple of balls later he bowled him for a duck. :yk
 
Faf doesn't realistically make any ATG South African XI. But I always thought that he was an excellent captain. Maybe the best South African captain after Smith and Cronje.
 
RidiculousMan said:
Rabada in my opinion is best South African pacers of all conditions after Steyn. So he has to be in an all time XI now
Click to expand...

Rabada has been not that great against better teams away.

In Ind/Aus/Eng/NZ together, avg 28-29 with 3 5-fers.

In Asia against non-minnows, not great again : Avg 35 and no 5-fer

------

After Steyn, it has to be Donald when it comes to all conditions pacers.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Faf doesn't realistically make any ATG South African XI. But I always thought that he was an excellent captain. Maybe the best South African captain after Smith and Cronje.
Click to expand...

He shouldn't make it over Amla, ABD, Kallis, Gary Kirsten, Graeme Smith, and Gibbs.

So, yeah. No space for him in their ATG XI.
 
sweep_shot said:
My all-time SA XI (this is applicable for both Test and ODI):

Graeme Smith (c)
Gibbs
Amla
Kallis
AB De Villiers
JP Duminy
Boucher (wk)
Pollock
Steyn
Maharaj
Donald.
Click to expand...

I am modifying my XI slightly. I think Gary Kirsten should be there.

Here's my all time Test XI for SA:

Graeme Smith (c)
Gary Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
Cullinan
AB De Villiers
Boucher (wk)
Pollock
Steyn
Maharaj
Donald.
 
sweep_shot said:
I am modifying my XI slightly. I think Gary Kirsten should be there.

Here's my all time Test XI for SA:

Graeme Smith (c)
Gary Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
Cullinan
AB De Villiers
Boucher (wk)
Pollock
Steyn
Maharaj
Donald.
Click to expand...
Tayfield for mahraj.
Proctor for Pollock
Graeme Pollock for cullinan
Instead of amla I would just Barry Richards.

Rabada too has a chance over mahraj for all seam attack
 
Rabada, Amla, Kallis and ABD should be an automatic choice here... These guys have a crazy record.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Rabada, Amla, Kallis and ABD should be an automatic choice here... These guys have a crazy record.
Click to expand...

In Test, I think Pollock, Steyn, and Donald should be selected ahead of Rabada.

Maybe Pollock can be replaced with Rabada. But, then again, Pollock can bat too.
 
ODI 11

G Smith
H Gibbs
ABD
Kallis
H Cronje
QDK
D Miller
Lance Klusener
S Pollock
Alan Donald
Imran T
 
SA BEST OD XI FOR SA CONDITIONS

Kirsten , Gibbs, Amla , Kallis, AB D Villiers , H.Cronje , S.Pollock ,L. Klusner , N. Boje , F. De Villiers , A. Donald.

SA BEST OD XI FOR SUBCONTINENT

Kirsten , Gibbs , Kallis , Klassen , Ab D Villiers , H.Cronje , L. Klusner, P. Symcox , N.Boje , S. pollock , F D Villiers
 
Laughable to see people exclude De Kock. He is in the top 3 WK batsmen of all time.
 
Mamoon said:
Laughable to see people exclude De Kock. He is in the top 3 WK batsmen of all time.
Click to expand...

De Kock should be included in ODI ATG XI.

Not sure about Test. I think Boucher should be selected ahead of him in Test.
 
Ab Fan said:
Post readmission:-

Smith
Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
ABDV
Qdk(wkt)
S Pollock
Maharaj
Rabada
Steyn
Donald

Batting is weak but fast bowling is one of the best ever and in all conditions.

Qdk playing in this team showcases how much overrated Mark Boucher as a player was. Never really took his batting to next level and he barely had to keep to any world class spinner.
Click to expand...
How is this top 6 weak ?
Post readmission as you said, witch team has a better top 6 (with the keeper batting at 6)?
 
Mobashir said:
How is this top 6 weak ?
Post readmission as you said, witch team has a better top 6 (with the keeper batting at 6)?
Click to expand...

Batting is till 6. Even #6 doesn’t average 40. #7 is Pollock who is also just a bowling all rounder.
 
Test cricket missed seeing SA greats playing against great WI side.
 
Mamoon said:
De Kock is far better than Boucher in all formats.
Click to expand...

I agree. He only merit a place because of sharing great camaraderie with captain and other senior players and was always in good books. Boucher was a mediocre cricketer but a strong personality. In contrast, Hashim Amla was a top class cricketer but a mediocre personality. :inti
 
Mamoon said:
De Kock is far better than Boucher in all formats.
Click to expand...
Couldn't they just play abd as keeper?

But yes qdk is class.

He should be easily their best ever keeper bat. He can take the game away from teams quite easily when he gets going.
 
Mamoon said:
De Kock is far better than Boucher in all formats.
Click to expand...

De Kock only played around 50 Tests.

Boucher played 147 Tests and he had around 500 dismissals (caught or stumping). Boucher is one of the best Test keeper-batters of all time.

Even batting averages aren't far apart. Both average in the 30's.

In Test, Boucher should be ahead of QDK.
 
kron said:
Couldn't they just play abd as keeper?

But yes qdk is class.

He should be easily their best ever keeper bat. He can take the game away from teams quite easily when he gets going.
Click to expand...

Yes they should. He was a quality keeper batsman too. The only reason they didn’t because everyone respected Smith and Boucher was his big brother.

Smith and Boucher were so smart that they used ABD as backup keeper if Boucher gets injured so that once he is fit, he is back in the side and AB plays as specialist bat. This allowed Boucher to prolong his career. Others who were specialist keepers just couldn’t get a chance.
 
Donald, Steyn, Pollock and Rabada! What a bowling attack!

Kallis can be fifth bowler.
 
Romali_rotti said:
Fannie Devilliers need to be in any best of all time South African side.
Click to expand...
I was surprised people here fif not include him , specially in OD he was a gun bowler. In 83 games his economy rate was 3.57 . Ideal bowler to partner an attacking bowler like Donald or Styen
 
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