Joe Root versus Hashim Amla in the Test format

[anikrc1]

That's a good point.

We can't really then compare across periods because all teams don't have the same bowling unit all the time.

So let's see for periods when Root played, All these bowlers averaged below 25 at home. All touring sides had to face them more or less.

Eng - Anderson, Broad
Ind - Ashwin, Jadeja , Bumrah, Shami
SA - Steyn, Vern, Rabada
Aus - Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood, Johnson

Southee, Wagner, Boult etc all averged higher than 25 at home after 2012, so including them means we are going too far down in quality. Even after including NZ, he just has 6 tons in around 90 innings combined so let's not get side tracked.

Since we can't compare players who played even 5-7 years before due to bowling not remaining the same, we can compare him with others who played during his career.

Root has highest number of innings(72) and yet he has just 4 tons.



View attachment 146784



Where is those great touring series for Root where he scored heavily?

Kohli had 4 tons in Aus in one series.
Warner had 3 tons in SA in one series.
Smith has 3 tons in India in one series.
Pujara has 3 tons in Aus in one series.
Smith had 3 tons on Eng in one series.
Daryl Mitchell had 3 tons in ENg in one series.
Kohli had a great series in Eng after his struggle and I think 2 tons.

Listing them is not for proving that all these batsmen were greater than Root, but simply to show that bowling was good but not so good that no one was able to score consistently big. I see lots of posters using bowling quality being high as reason for Root not able to score big in series, but you can't really be top tier without scoring big in tough tours few times.

I am not even expecting dominating performacne in tough away series but just have decent frequency to score tons in tough away series. Show that you can score big runs with some frequency.

He also has the most number of 50 plus scores. So he might not go as big as Kohli or Smith, but he is more consistent. Amla's record I suspect will have a larger percentage of runs coming in 2012 - 2013. Although I do think that Smith and Kohli at their peak was better than Root, but including whole career I think Root is ahead of Kohli. He has no chance of catching Smith who is one of the best 3 batsmen I have seen including Sachin and Lara. I rate Root along side Dravid and Younis, but behind Ponting Callis and Sangakara. Amla will be in the next tier with Kohli Pietetsen Inzamam etc.

 

[anikrc1]

Also he has the 4 th best average in that period after Smith Kohli and Pant, disregarding Amla. His average is 10 less than Smith. Let's take the example of Tendulkar in 90's. The best 4 bowling line ups of that era were Australia South Africa West Indies and Pakistan. With a moderate sample size( at least 15 tests played) Tendulkar averaged a very respectable 45 in their dens which is the 2d highest. But his average is a whooping 21 less than Steve Waugh who averaged 66. Despite that I think most will rate Sachin ahead of Steve in the 90's. That's because home runs are also valuable.

 

[Buffet]

He also has the most number of 50 plus scores. So he might not go as big as Kohli or Smith, but he is more consistent. Amla's record I suspect will have a larger percentage of runs coming in 2012 - 2013. Although I do think that Smith and Kohli at their peak was better than Root, but including whole career I think Root is ahead of Kohli. He has no chance of catching Smith who is one of the best 3 batsmen I have seen including Sachin and Lara. I rate Root along side Dravid and Younis, but behind Ponting Callis and Sangakara. Amla will be in the next tier with Kohli Pietetsen Inzamam etc.

Yes, Smith is the best test batsman I have seen along with SRT and Lara.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I think this thread was made for Tendulkar. Nothing to do wtih Amla. LOL.

Anyway, Root is looking good to surpass Tendulkar. I think Root can finish his career as the 2nd best batter of all time (only after Bradman).

So, is Sachin the second greatest batter if all time as of now? or are there more mental gymnastics up your sleeve?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Anyone who reads this thread diligently can understand that Joe Root although a great player is not in any conversation of GOATs. Buffet has highlighted great points here.

These are the batsman post 1950s I will straightaway put above Root

Sachin
Lara
Viv
Sobers
Chappell
Gavaskar
S Waugh
A Border
Steve Smith

And then there are many who are at the same level as him.

 

[anikrc1]

Anyone who reads this thread diligently can understand that Joe Root although a great player is not in any conversation of GOATs. Buffet has highlighted great points here.

These are the batsman post 1950s I will straightaway put above Root

Sachin
Lara
Viv
Sobers
Chappell
Gavaskar
S Waugh
A Border
Steve Smith

And then there are many who are at the same level as him.

It's a debate between Root and Amla? Where does Goat come from? Root is obviously not that class of batsman. In fact after 1970s I would say only Viv Sachin Lara and Smith have a claim for Goat and are the absolute top tier.

 

[Buffet]

Also he has the 4 th best average in that period after Smith Kohli and Pant, disregarding Amla. His average is 10 less than Smith. Let's take the example of Tendulkar in 90's. The best 4 bowling line ups of that era were Australia South Africa West Indies and Pakistan. With a moderate sample size( at least 15 tests played) Tendulkar averaged a very respectable 45 in their dens which is the 2d highest. But his average is a whooping 21 less than Steve Waugh who averaged 66. Despite that I think most will rate Sachin ahead of Steve in the 90's. That's because home runs are also valuable.

I have never said that let's take XYZ avg and rate him higher or lets take XYZ average and rate him lower. That's lazy way to rate anyone.

I was only pointing out going big consistently has been the hallmark for any great batsman and greatness was always judged on how often you do it in tough away tours. SRT scored great tons in tough away tours in pretty much every single series. One of the hall mark of great batsmen is making you pay when they cross 50. Root crossed 21 times and and conrted to 100 only 4 times.

Home runs are surely valuable but far less valauble than tough away runs becasue lot of players do well at home but very few do well on tough away tours. No one is saying any runs are worthless, just relative importance.

 

[Buffet]

He also has the most number of 50 plus scores. So he might not go as big as Kohli or Smith, but he is more consistent. Amla's record I suspect will have a larger percentage of runs coming in 2012 - 2013. Although I do think that Smith and Kohli at their peak was better than Root, but including whole career I think Root is ahead of Kohli. He has no chance of catching Smith who is one of the best 3 batsmen I have seen including Sachin and Lara. I rate Root along side Dravid and Younis, but behind Ponting Callis and Sangakara. Amla will be in the next tier with Kohli Pietetsen Inzamam etc.

Amla had 3 tons on India in 2010 series. He also had 1 ton in 2007 series in India. India was a top class team in that phase.
Amla had 2 tons in Eng in 2012 series ( Same time Eng won series in Aus/Ind so probably the biggest achievement of Eng test team in 30-40 years. Has to be strongest Eng team in recent history). He also had ton in 2008 series in Eng.

Yes, his 2 tons in Aus when Aus was not that great in 2012 - 2013.

 

[Mamoon]

I have never said that let's take XYZ avg and rate him higher or lets take XYZ average and rate him lower. That's lazy way to rate anyone.

I was only pointing out going big consistently has been the hallmark for any great batsman and greatness was always judged on how often you do it in tough away tours. SRT scored great tons in tough away tours in pretty much every single series. One of the hall mark of great batsmen is making you pay when they cross 50. Root crossed 21 times and and conrted to 100 only 4 times.

Home runs are surely valuable but far less valauble than tough away runs becasue lot of players do well at home but very few do well on tough away tours. No one is saying any runs are worthless, just relative importance.

Again, at the end of the day, a career average of 46 & less than 10k runs means than Amla simply does not qualify for the great batsmen category and Root has entered that category.

It is like calling a 30 averaging bowler with less than 300 Test wickets a great. Amla would have been considered a great batsman had he finished his career with a 50+ average of scored 12k+ runs to make up for a below 50 average. He failed to achieve both.

 

[Mamoon]

Anyone who reads this thread diligently can understand that Joe Root although a great player is not in any conversation of GOATs. Buffet has highlighted great points here.

These are the batsman post 1950s I will straightaway put above Root

Sachin
Lara
Viv
Sobers
Chappell
Gavaskar
S Waugh
A Border
Steve Smith

And then there are many who are at the same level as him.

I hope the anti-itch cream shipment arrives before Root crosses Tendulkar.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I hope the anti-itch cream shipment arrives before Root crosses Tendulkar.

I hope Pakistan wins a home test match before Root crosses Tendulkar.

 

[RahulBose]

LOL. Root will possibly surpass statpadder Tendulkar in a few years.

This is why you should watch cricket and not read it on cricinfo

 

[James]

The attention that Root is starting to receive now that he is a genuine candidate to pass the fabled Tendulkar total is quite incredible. It’s like a pan of water slowly reaching boiling point. If and when the day arrives where he does achieve the record, in a certain part of the world the internet will probably break.

 

[RahulBose]

Just goes to show what value Sachin had.

And mind you, Root is ONLY getting close to his TEST record. Sachin was a phenomenal odi player as well,

Wake me up when somebody gets to 100 100s and is that good in every format they play.

These one format players can never challenge Sachin.

 

[Mamoon]

The attention that Root is starting to receive now that he is a genuine candidate to pass the fabled Tendulkar total is quite incredible. It’s like a pan of water slowly reaching boiling point. If and when the day arrives where he does achieve the record, in a certain part of the world the internet will probably break.

What is even more hilarious is the fact that these people don’t hold him in high regard and think he is not very good. The fact that a so-called ordinary batsman is going to overtake the so-called batting god as the most prolific scorer in history of Test cricket is simply adding salt to wounds.

 

[Mamoon]

This is why you should watch cricket and not read it on cricinfo

We are watching cricket and this is why we are celebrated watching one of the greatest batsmen in Test cricket history at the peak of his powers in an era where there is an over-consumption of T20 cricket.

I think Test cricket purists all over the world should really celebrate the likes of Root and Smith because they are a dying breed of orthodox, classical Test players.

The best players amongst the new generation like Brook, Jaiswal etc. will have excellent Test careers but they are modernized players who play Test cricket like white ball cricket, which is great in its own right but those of us who love Test cricket would also miss a classical Test batsman and these two are amongst the last in a dying breed.

You also need to understand that this is a Pakistani cricket forum at the end of the day and Tendulkar was nothing more than decent vs Pakistan in Test cricket, so it is difficult for us to buy the notion that he was some batting god that cannot be compared to any mortal. If he was that good he shouldn’t have averaged only 40 odd vs Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

^ Also didn’t Kohli to the list because the king has turned into a court jester over the last 4 years in Test cricket.

 

[James]

What is even more hilarious is the fact that these people don’t hold him in high regard and think he is not very good. The fact that a so-called ordinary batsman is going to overtake the so-called batting god as the most prolific scorer in history of Test cricket is simply adding salt to wounds.

I think for England fans it would just be a matter of enormous pride and respect for Joe Root if he achieves the milestone. No England fan is seriously trying to position him as the Goat batsman or even put him above Tendulkar. Joe himself certainly wouldn’t do that either. For him, personal milestones / stat charts / taking the glory are all secondary to helping the team.

 

[James]

The best players amongst the new generation like Brook, Jaiswal etc. will have excellent Test careers but they are modernized players who play Test cricket like white ball cricket, which is great in its own right but those of us who love Test cricket would also miss a classical Test batsman and these two are amongst the last in a dying breed.

Root and Brook batting together in Multan was like watching the master and the apprentice.

 

[ElRaja]

Just goes to show what value Sachin had.

And mind you, Root is ONLY getting close to his TEST record. Sachin was a phenomenal odi player as well,

Wake me up when somebody gets to 100 100s and is that good in every format they play.

These one format players can never challenge Sachin.

sachin scored 100 100s in 650 odd games, in the three format era that's never happening so its a silly requirement to state. odis outside of ICC tournaments are virtually irrelevant now anyway.

The attention that Root is starting to receive now that he is a genuine candidate to pass the fabled Tendulkar total is quite incredible. It’s like a pan of water slowly reaching boiling point. If and when the day arrives where he does achieve the record, in a certain part of the world the internet will probably break.

its already happening right now, lol. i still think its a crazy to think that its even possible he could do it. if his next four years are anything like his last 4, his record will be head and shoulders above anyone.

 

[Buffet]

Again, at the end of the day, a career average of 46 & less than 10k runs means than Amla simply does not qualify for the great batsmen category and Root has entered that category.

It is like calling a 30 averaging bowler with less than 300 Test wickets a great. Amla would have been considered a great batsman had he finished his career with a 50+ average of scored 12k+ runs to make up for a below 50 average. He failed to achieve both.

Without context this 12K runs or 50 plus average is not saying much.

Otherwise difference between great and just good will be difference of 0.16 in avg and 100 odd runs. That was Jayawardene with near 12K runs and 49.86 average. Not sayng that Jayawardane is similar to Root, but anyone will see how and where those runs were scored.

 

[Mamoon]

Without context this 12K runs or 50 plus average is not saying much.

Otherwise difference between great and just good will be difference of 0.16 in avg and 100 odd runs. That was Jayawardene with near 12K runs and 49.86 average. Not sayng that Jayawardane is similar to Root, but anyone will see how and where those runs were scored.

The difference between Joe Root and Mahela is very simple. Mahela retire with those numbers while Joe Root is at his peak right now and he still has another 4-5 years left in him.

Unless he has a Kohli like rapid decline, he will end up with 15k runs, 50 average, 40+ centuries.

If you are not an ATG Test batsman with those numbers, then no one is. When you produce such numbers, there is no room for ifs and buts and dissection of stats is required, because if it was that easy to pull up these numbers because of XYZ factors, you wouldn’t be standing alone on the summit,

Furthermore, as far as Amla is concerned, Root has played superior attacks than Amla did in his prime except Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

A lot is made of Amla’s runs in Australia and India why that put him above Root but those Australian and Indian bowling units were clearly inferior than the ones Root played.

One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread yet, or perhaps I missed it, is the failures of Amla in home conditions.

It is well and good to score runs away from home, but if you are not performing at home, you are still letting your team down.

No great batsman in Test history has been mediocre at home. That is one thing that is common between all great Test batsmen.

Joe Root is a beast in England while Amla averaged 45 odd in South Africa with very poor returns vs India (29) and Australia (38), even though he faced inferior Indian and Australian attacks.

In comparison, Joe Root averages below 40 at home vs only one team and that too Ireland.

Home dominance is another factor that disqualifies Amla from being considered a Test great and puts him a class below Root.

Less than 50 average, less than 10k runs, underwhelming at home. Amla has no business being compared to Root.

 

[Buffet]

The difference between Joe Root and Mahela is very simple. Mahela retire with those numbers while Joe Root is at his peak right now and he still has another 4-5 years left in him.



One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread yet, or perhaps I missed it, is the failures of Amla in home conditions.

It is well and good to score runs away from home, but if you are not performing at home, you are still letting your team down.

No great batsman in Test history has been mediocre at home. That is one thing that is common between all great Test batsmen.

I don't think that difference between Mahela and Root is Mahela being retired and Root having few more years. Difference is their ability to play in different conditions. Root is above the likes of Mahela and has very little to do with avg or volume of runs or having more time. Root can go below 50 average and I will still rate him high. Mahela was never rated very high due to his shortcoming in many different conditions. Root does not have that isuse except in Aus. Many great batsmen had issue in one venue.

I don't think you missed home point raise in this thread. I think you are the first person to raise this point. Counter point will be SA having tougher batting conditions at home. It's reflected in bowling unit average diferene as well.

 

[Mamoon]

I don't think that difference between Mahela and Root is Mahela being retired and Root having few more years. Difference is their ability to play in different conditions. Root is above the likes of Mahela and has very little to do with avg or volume of runs or having more time. Root can go below 50 average and I will still rate him high. Mahela was never rated very high due to his shortcoming in many different conditions. Root does not have that isuse except in Aus. Many great batsmen had issue in one venue.

I don't think you missed home point raise in this thread. I think you are the first person to raise this point. Counter point will be SA having tougher batting conditions at home. It's reflected in bowling unit average diferene as well.

Batting in South Africa isn’t easy, but you would expect South African batsmen to adjust to the conditions because of home familiarity.

In addition, most of the attacks that he played at home weren’t very strong to begin with. It is not like he was facing Steyn and Philander.

Batting in South Africa isn’t that difficult that you average only 29 vs India, 32 vs SL and 38 vs Australia.

29 and 32 vs India and SL respectively at home is just horrible considering that both teams didn’t have exceptional bowling attacks.

The more we dig deep into the stats and look at different perspectives, the more it becomes obvious that Root is simply a superior Test batsman than Amla.

Underwhelming record at home because of difficult conditions also negates the point that Amla scored tough runs in his career. If he did, he would have mastered the tough conditions at home.

 

[Ab Fan]

Anyone who reads this thread diligently can understand that Joe Root although a great player is not in any conversation of GOATs. Buffet has highlighted great points here.

These are the batsman post 1950s I will straightaway put above Root

Sachin
Lara
Viv
Sobers
Chappell
Gavaskar
S Waugh
A Border
Steve Smith

And then there are many who are at the same level as him.

If you will rate Ponting, Kallis, Dravid, Sanga at same level as Root, there is no point for debate really.

 

[Ab Fan]

^ Also didn’t Kohli to the list because the king has turned into a court jester over the last 4 years in Test cricket.

King has found his form back since start of last year.

Averaged 55.92 in 2023 and did well in Tests in South Africa. Good chance he will do well in Australia.

Won player of series in ODI World Cup.

Won player of match in T20I World Cup Final.

 

[James]

Underwhelming record at home because of difficult conditions also negates the point that Amla scored tough runs in his career. If he did, he would have mastered the tough conditions at home.

Scoring a triple hundred in England is undoubtedly a solid achievement, though I would temper it slightly by saying that Surrey had probably the flattest wicket in the country for a good while, and despite doing a bit more for the bowlers in the last few years it remains so. The Oval was often fairly well known for high scoring games in county cricket and 34.5% of Test matches played there have ended in draws. We certainly don’t get the consistent result pitches in London that are produced at Edgbaston and Headingley.

 

[atreus]

one of the absolute saddest threads I've seen on internet.

 

[atreus]

I'll make some arguments though.

1. Amla only scored against Harbhajan and Zaheer in the end of his career on ultra flat tracks where he spammed hundreds, three in three iirc, when he was forced to face an actual capable and young lineup on actual turners he averaged...16, yeah, 16, can't rack up not out double hundreds against a lol tier attack now huh? on the other hand, Root has faced that attack many times and have match winning hundreds against them, Zaheer and Irfan are replaced by the infinitely superior Bumrah and Shami and so forth. Amla's average against Ashwin and Jadeja should tell one how good he is on actual turners, and what he would average against the India Root faced.

2. Amla's 60 average in England is just the resultant of that triple hundred on one of the flattest wickets possible, other than that knock I'd say he was a decent player of seam averaging like 40, obviously not compareable to Root whose 2021 India series might be one of the greatest displays of batsmenship against pace bowling in this century.

3. Amla's home record has him averaging 45 against England, 38 against Aus, 29 against Ind, 33 against SL, he mostly bashed his home runs against miserable bowlers like the windies ones or pre Quaret NZ, while Root was batting against actual monsters at home like Rabada and Philander who both average below 20 at home, on top Amla was batting with ATGs while Root with a fading cook and a weak team, he still Averages higher.

4. Amla was only truly better in Australia than Root, and even then the threat of Root was enough for Australia to lay the spiciest wickets they've presented since 1970s or 80s, while comparatively Amla batted on wickets where vastly inferior players to Root, such as Williamson, can perform.

5. there was no ATG bowler or strong attacks during Amla's time while Anderson, there are a bunch of amazing attacks during root's career.

and now finally, Joe Root has been the undisputed Batsmen in the world in this decade and has looked a million miles ahead of everyone else, while Amla never could become the best in his own team.

 

[Buffet]

the threat of Root was enough for Australia to lay the spiciest wickets they've presented since 1970s or 80s, while comparatively Amla batted on wickets where vastly inferior players to Root, such as Williamson, can perform.

Worried about Root to have spiciest pitch since 70s/80s, LOL. No home team worries about Root enough to change pitch. Root does not have single heavy scoring series in Aus, SA, Ind in his 150 long test career and teams will be worried enough to change pitch for Root?

Teams don't do that for Even Smith, Kohli etc who had many ATG series against top teams.

On same Spiciest pitch,

 

[atreus]

Worried about Root to have spiciest pitch since 70s/80s, LOL. No home team worries about Root enough to change pitch. Root does not have single heavy scoring series in Aus, SA, Ind in his 150 long test career and teams will be worried enough to change pitch for Root?

Teams don't do that for Even Smith, Kohli etc who had many ATG series against top teams.

On same Spiciest pitch,

View attachment 146864

Root had monster form in 2021, and boom, the wickets in Australia were the spiciest they've been since 1970s, what a coincidence huh? regardless, the 2021 Ashes series

top three scorers:

and bowling:

2017 series top three scorers

don't know why you're mentioning things after the Ashes 2021 which I specified my comment to.

Match winning double ton in India is enough, Series winning ton at Wanderers is enough too

 

[Buffet]

Threat of Root and home teams doctoring Pitch to counter him, lol. That's a new one I have heard.

When Root played, on the same spicy pitch in Aus, SA and Ind.

Warner - 51
Head - 59
Marsh - 85
Smith - 59
Khawaja - 58

Kohli - 71
Rohit - 49
Jaiswal - 89
Rahul - 56

Quinton - 58
Amla - 67


...
...
...

Root 42

 

[Buffet]

Kohli/Smith have many ATG series in tough tours . Even for for them no one will doctor the pitch to counter them.

 

[atreus]

Threat of Root and home teams doctoring Pitch to counter him, lol. That's a new one I have heard.

When Root played, on the same spicy pitch in Aus, SA and Ind.

Warner - 51
Head - 59
Marsh - 85
Smith - 59
Khawaja - 58

Kohli - 71
Rohit - 49
Jaiswal - 89
Rahul - 56

Quinton - 58
Amla - 67


...
...
...

Root 42

I did not know Kohli played in the Ashes lol, but interesting. Anyway let's properly contextualise things, I know you hate context but we've to be honest.

Amla in South Africa

Amla – 67? Riiiiight, because Amla definitely did not smash a double ton in the flattest track of the whole tour in 2016, he made 201 in the game where Ben Stokes smacked 258, and where 1300 runs were made for the fall of first 13 wickets, how do I know? unlike you, I actually watched the series.

in the first test Amla made 19 runs, Root made 90+

in the second test it's the flat one where Amla made 200

in the third test, Root made 114, Amla made 45

In the fourth test and the dead rubber, Amla made 200 runs and Root like hundred runs.

Root averages 55 that tour, but obviously you'd say 42 because at the end of the day accuracy isn't really in your list of priorities.

Kohli in India
Ignoring the fact Kohli was facing Ben Stokes, Stuart Broad and nothing spinners while Root was facing an ATG attack, Root outperformed Pujara in India in the first tour there, while facing Ashwin and Jadeja, it was Kohli who averaged 100+ and it was unmatchable.

Root was the highest scorer in the 2021 series, even tho he faced the ATG Indian attack while Kohli averaged 28 facing the English attack.

Root struggled in the 2024 series as he overbowled a lot in the first three tests where he scored pretty much nothing, but hey, you'd only know if you watched the series.

I'm not interested in defending his Australia record, told you many times, honestly man? it's clear that we don't play the same game, I watch the tours while you check statsguru, obviously you're gonna think Amla was some ATG Batsmen in England and India and Root averages 45 in India so that's worse than the 50 average Hayden had and whatever, I get the context behind the runs Amla scored and the ones Root scored, you don't, and that's fine as clearly that doesn't hinder you from developing strong opinions.

 

[atreus]

Kohli/Smith have many ATG series in tough tours . Even for for them no one will doctor the pitch to counter them.

2021 Ashes Aussie pitches are verifiably different than any other, was it to neutralize England? or was it just a coincidence? doesn't change the fact the Aus Root got is a much higher level of attack and far tougher wickets.

Amla averages 16 against Cummins and 10.6 against Hazlewood btw, gives you an idea of how he'd do in modern day England.

 

[atreus]

@Buffet Amla vs Ponting vs Sangakkara, rank them

Hashim Amla: [ in Ind/Aus/Eng ]

54 innings - Avg 56 and 9 tons. Every 6 innings Amla scored a ton.


Ricky Ponting: [in Ind/Eng/SA]

80 Innings – Avg 38 and 8 tons. Every 10 Innings Ponting scored a ton

Kumar Sangakkara: [in Ind/Eng/SA/Aus)

58 Innings – Avg 41 and 5 tons. Every 11.6 innings Sangakkara scored a ton.

 

[Buffet]

@Buffet Amla vs Ponting vs Sangakkara, rank them

Hashim Amla: [ in Ind/Aus/Eng ]

54 innings - Avg 56 and 9 tons. Every 6 innings Amla scored a ton.


Ricky Ponting: [in Ind/Eng/SA]

80 Innings – Avg 38 and 8 tons. Every 10 Innings Ponting scored a ton

Kumar Sangakkara: [in Ind/Eng/SA/Aus)

58 Innings – Avg 41 and 5 tons. Every 11.6 innings Sangakkara scored a ton.

As pointed by your evidence, if I am picking a team to play in tough tours, I will pick Amla 10 out of 10 times over Sanga and Ponting.

 

[Buffet]

2021 Ashes Aussie pitches are verifiably different than any other, was it to neutralize England? or was it just a coincidence? doesn't change the fact the Aus Root got is a much higher level of attack and far tougher wickets.

Amla averages 16 against Cummins and 10.6 against Hazlewood btw, gives you an idea of how he'd do in modern day England.

Root has gotten lots of differnet kind of pitches in varous tours of Aus, Ind and SA.

End result 4 tons in 72 innings. All players get all kinds of pitch over time if they play long enough.

No one is trying to nuetralize Root by producing spicy pitch in Aus. That claim is just absurd.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Thread is about root vs amla. Please stay on topic. We have many Tendulkar threads, you can go there to talk about him.

 

[atreus]

As pointed by your evidence, if I am picking a team to play in tough tours, I will pick Amla 10 out of 10 times over Sanga and Ponting.

That's kinda crazy considering Amla failed on almost all the actual tough tours of his career bar an Australia tour while Ponting was prolific in South Africa.

Root has gotten lots of differnet kind of pitches in varous tours of Aus, Ind and SA.

End result 4 tons in 72 innings. All players get all kinds of pitch over time if they play long enough.

No one is trying to nuetralize Root by producing spicy pitch in Aus. That claim is just absurd.

in India and SA his record is fine, 4 tons in 45 games, that's a great record considering the bowling he has faced in both those countries, his record is bad in Australia because he has a fundamental flaw in his game against high bounce.

with the home stats I posted, Root's numbers are valid in all countries as away batting has become tough and so forth.

I mean, Ashes 2021 pitches were clearly doctored, were they for the neutralizaton of someone? or for the neutralizaton of the whole team? I can't tell but the pitches were genuinely ridiculous.

 

[DTrump]

1. Amla was a better defensive batsman than Root. There is no version of Root that can replicate Amla's heroics in Kolkata (2010) or Galle (2014).

2. Amla was a better player of high pace. Better against spin and better against movement too.

3. Hashim also had a significantly higher peak than Root. Triple hundred in England, Twin Centuries in India and 196 at the WACA among others. He played a mere 42 tests in 5 years at his absolute peak compared to Root who is going to play 55 tests between 2021-2024. Also, it is worth noting that Root's golden run in tests has come when he has become a ONE FORMAT batsman.

4. Amla succeeded at number 3 where Root has struggled to put bat to ball there.

If i can pick only one in my team, the answer is Hashim Amla.

That being said, Amla, like Sehwag before him, and Kohli after him, declined terribly. He could not buy a run in his mid to late 30s.

Root has outlasted him and probably deserves to be ranked higher even if he is a slightly inferior bat.

 

[Buffet]

1. Amla was a better defensive batsman than Root. There is no version of Root that can replicate Amla's heroics in Kolkata (2010) or Galle (2014).

2. Amla was a better player of high pace. Better against spin and better against movement too.

3. Hashim also had a significantly higher peak than Root. Triple hundred in England, Twin Centuries in India and 196 at the WACA among others. He played a mere 42 tests in 5 years at his absolute peak compared to Root who is going to play 55 tests between 2021-2024. Also, it is worth noting that Root's golden run in tests has come when he has become a ONE FORMAT batsman.

4. Amla succeeded at number 3 where Root has struggled to put bat to ball there.

If i can pick only one in my team, the answer is Hashim Amla.

That being said, Amla, like Sehwag before him, and Kohli after him, declined terribly. He could not buy a run in his mid to late 30s.

Root has outlasted him and probably deserves to be ranked higher even if he is a slightly inferior bat.

No one can deny longevity for Root and Anderson. Kudos to both for playing so many tests and still doing well. Yes, all format players will surely not play that many tests and Eng playing tests non-stop means you can play lots of tests. Having said that it's hard to play at a good level for long time even if you exclusively play test cricket. Full credit for that. Anderson and Root should inspire some other English players to play lots of tests at a good level.

 

[Hawkeye]

Both are boring batters.

Root is slightly ahead as he’s a bit more enjoyable.

Amla was a pain to watch.

Root has more runs and is younger. He probably has a bit higher ceiling and more people will remember him at the end of the day.

 

[anikrc1]

Both are boring batters.

Root is slightly ahead as he’s a bit more enjoyable.

Amla was a pain to watch.

Root has more runs and is younger. He probably has a bit higher ceiling and more people will remember him at the end of the day

Amla and Root both are pretty aesthetically pleasing.

 

[Hawkeye]

Amla and Root both are pretty aesthetically pleasing.

Perhaps our taste in batting is different then.

Root is, yes. Amla? Not really for me.

 

[atreus]

1. Amla was a better defensive batsman than Root. There is no version of Root that can replicate Amla's heroics in Kolkata (2010) or Galle (2014).

2. Amla was a better player of high pace. Better against spin and better against movement too.

3. Hashim also had a significantly higher peak than Root. Triple hundred in England, Twin Centuries in India and 196 at the WACA among others. He played a mere 42 tests in 5 years at his absolute peak compared to Root who is going to play 55 tests between 2021-2024. Also, it is worth noting that Root's golden run in tests has come when he has become a ONE FORMAT batsman.

4. Amla succeeded at number 3 where Root has struggled to put bat to ball there.

If i can pick only one in my team, the answer is Hashim Amla.

That being said, Amla, like Sehwag before him, and Kohli after him, declined terribly. He could not buy a run in his mid to late 30s.

Root has outlasted him and probably deserves to be ranked higher even if he is a slightly inferior bat.

1. Defensive batting is hard to quantify, Root is a more natural strokemaker, his stroke play and speed of innings is quantifiably superior.

2. Root's achievements against spin are greater, performing constantly against an ATG indian lineup in india, he has never struggled with a single spinner while Amla was destroyed by Jadeja and Muralidharan, he is definitely a superior player of spin.

3. Root is an unreasonably superior Batsmen of movement, Root has the Bradman-esque series against Bumrah and Shami in proper English conditions in a bowling friendly era, as well as has some classic ATG innings in seaming conditions like Wellington 2023 or Lords 2022, Amla has no such feats against movement.

4. Amla had Graeme Smith at top to fight off seam for him, Root had <insert 20 avg Batsmen> on top, now that England has two decent openers in Zack and Ben, Ollie Pope averages 42 at 3 and we all know he is a vastly inferior player to Root.

alternatively, Root is batting in a far tougher era, quantifiably and is averaging 5 runs higher, with being top 1-2 Batsmen in every country he visits bar Australia, and he bats in a much tougher condition, and on top bats against infinitely better attacks and so forth.

Overall, it's not close, Smith > Root > Kohli > Williamson ~ Amla

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

As expected, Root doing the same thing he does in India, go big once on a patta, keep getting out on pitches which have something for the bowlers.

Totally expected

 

[atreus]

You know people are salty when they're mad you didn't score a century one test after you scored 262, looking for a reason to hate.

truly, suffering from greatness.

 

[DTrump]

Williamson is closer to Ashwell Prince than he is to Hashim Amla. Bringing the Kiwi Clown Prince weakens your argument very quickly.