Joe Root versus Ricky Ponting versus Kumar Sangakkara in Tests

[kron]

That's not really true.

There is no replacement of Gilchrist and Warne in Test cricket either, they were invincible in their department. Warne did poor vs India but he was a beast in Australian conditions which is a graveyard for spinners. He also did well everywhere. Unlike Ponting, his home conditions were graveyard for spinners and him doing wonders there tells us about the quality of the player and ability to thrive in tough conditions.

In addition to it, Steve Waugh was very underrated cricketer and did really well away from home.

If you can get good overspin and take advantage of rough and bounce, aussie pitches can be good for spinners too.

 

[atreus]

Virat also sucks vs swing. And spin post 2019 ish.

But atleast virat had some good performances vs spin.

I think punter is better vs swing than veerattt

Yeah I agree, I think Ponting against spin is compareable to Virat against swing, as in both have some great individual performances like Ponting against Muralidharan and Virat in 2018 England but have some horror tours against spinners as well

 

[Buffet]

An average of 40 against top 6 oppositions further strengthens my point.

Ponting is not just behind SRT, Lara but also behind Kallis and Dravid in Test cricket. Both Kohli and Root average more than 40 in SENA or SINA which means they have also done better than Ponting away from home vs major opponents. If you include Sri Lanka and Pakistan in that SENA, their average will go over 45.

The following players have done better away from home than Ponting since 1990:-

Steve Waugh
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Jacques Kallis
Rahul Dravid
Steve Smith
Joe Root
Graeme Smith
Virat Kohli
Hashim Amla
AB de Villiers
Alastair Cook
Kumar Sangakkara
Shivanarine Chanderpaul
Younis khan

If you do not consider his ODI exploits,all the names above Graeme Smith can be easily rated better test batsman than Ponting.

I meant taking ODI and Test together he is just behind SRT and Lara.

 

[atreus]

I meant taking ODI and Test together he is just behind SRT and Lara.

Viv too

 

[Buffet]

Viv too

That's given. I was only comparing him with his own generation. He is behind Kohli too across formats, but Ponting is still the one the best bastman, across fromats, in history. Not many batsmen have skills to play well in all formats at a high level. Actaully we may not have more than handful of players who pass that filter.

 

[Ab Fan]

@jeeteshssaxena , some posters have their life dependent on Tendulkar and Indians and no matter what the thread is about, their ultimate goal is to somehow force the evil Indian propoganda and Tendulkar being treated as God phrase into the discussion.

If the thread is about Ponting vs Tendulkar and if you dare to highlight Ponting's weakness, they will accuse the Indians for being insecure of Ponting's success.

If the thread is about Root vs Tendulkar, they will still accuse the Indians for being insecure of Root's success.

Same goes for Sangakkara vs Tendulkar thread.

But when the thread is about Root vs Ponting vs Sangakkara, they will still try and find a way to somehow bring Tendulkar in the discussion and accuse him because they are simply not capable of having a logical argument. For example, they will keep on talking about an ODI achievement in a test thread where they already got destroyed via a logical discussion and vent their frustration by bringing an ODI achievement.

 

[kron]

@jeeteshssaxena , some posters have their life dependent on Tendulkar and Indians and no matter what the thread is about, their ultimate goal is to somehow force the evil Indian propoganda and Tendulkar being treated as God phrase into the discussion.

If the thread is about Ponting vs Tendulkar and if you dare to highlight Ponting's weakness, they will accuse the Indians for being insecure of Ponting's success.

If the thread is about Root vs Tendulkar, they will still accuse the Indians for being insecure of Root's success.

Same goes for Sangakkara vs Tendulkar thread.

But when the thread is about Root vs Ponting vs Sangakkara, they will still try and find a way to somehow bring Tendulkar in the discussion and accuse him because they are simply not capable of having a logical argument. For example, they will keep on talking about an ODI achievement in a test thread where they already got destroyed via a logical discussion and vent their frustration by bringing an ODI achievement.

Well punter had mcgrath and Warne.
Sanga never won a WC

Tenda had zak khan (29 averaging bowler)
Wayward sreesanth and nehra.

Good attack but not great. Imagine If tenda had a bumrah shami or mcgrath Warne.

 

[Ab Fan]

So, is he better test bat than Ponting or Sangakkara now?

 

[kron]

So, is he better test bat than Ponting or Sangakkara now?

Better than sanga panga anyday. All day everyday.

Ponting? Joe beats him vs swing and spin. Not vs pace and bounce.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

@jeeteshssaxena , some posters have their life dependent on Tendulkar and Indians and no matter what the thread is about, their ultimate goal is to somehow force the evil Indian propoganda and Tendulkar being treated as God phrase into the discussion.

If the thread is about Ponting vs Tendulkar and if you dare to highlight Ponting's weakness, they will accuse the Indians for being insecure of Ponting's success.

If the thread is about Root vs Tendulkar, they will still accuse the Indians for being insecure of Root's success.

Same goes for Sangakkara vs Tendulkar thread.

But when the thread is about Root vs Ponting vs Sangakkara, they will still try and find a way to somehow bring Tendulkar in the discussion and accuse him because they are simply not capable of having a logical argument. For example, they will keep on talking about an ODI achievement in a test thread where they already got destroyed via a logical discussion and vent their frustration by bringing an ODI achievement.

Yeah , heads I win tails you lose.
We basically can’t say anything about Tendulkar or Root now much less criticise Root.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Ponting actually was not that great against good home teams in general when playing away. You can give a very wide leeway to Ponting and include top 6 home homes teams during his career. I don't think going till top 6 is warranted, but that allows a very large sample size and enough chance to make up weak performance against Ind.

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Ponting has 50 plus tests so really a huge sample size. Aus was also by far the best home team during his playing days with W/L of over 5 when second best was in 2.x. Ponting avoided facing the best home team as well.

And yet he avearges 40 collectively against the top 6 home sides when playing in their dens. It's not horrble. 40 is still good, but it's highlights the fact that Ponting was not that great against good home sides. He has 9 tons so not bad but it came in 50 plus tests. 1 ton every 10 innings.


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That's why I just shake my head when anyone makes a case for Ponting coming ahead of Smith in all time Aus Test XI. Smith is comfortably ahead of Ponting in the test format and it's not even close. I had the same impression watching both of them live and data shows the same thing. Anyone rating Ponting ahead is getting influenced by how often Aus used to win those days.

I always find it puzzling the hate Kohli gets from some posters. He had 2 ATG away series in Aus and Eng. Couple more great away series in Aus and SA. Averages around 60 on tough pitches at home. Not to derail the thread but recency bias have made people forget how great his career has been.

Coming back to Ponting, I think he was a very good all format player, but just below the likes SRT, Lara and Kohli. Just in test, it's harder to rank because his dominating runs have come at home. A great player to watch in full flow, but had his own shortcomings.

Personally I would give Ponting averages a bit of bump due to captaincy pressures?

Would be interesting to see how different captains perform away from home in your analysis.

I rate Graeme Smith highly because I believe he has one of the best batting records as a captain.

 

[Buffet]

Personally I would give Ponting averages a bit of bump due to captaincy pressures?

Would be interesting to see how different captains perform away from home in your analysis.

I rate Graeme Smith highly because I believe he has one of the best batting records as a captain.

You are correct about Smith.

Ponting Away from home as captain against the same top 6 teams: Avg 41 and 5 tons

Smith Away from home as captain against the same top 6 teams: Avg 48 and 8 tons



It's hard to start doing top 6 for all eras because top 6 changes in each era. So just in the last 30 years or so with all kinds of opposition when playing away, here are some of the captains.

Some captain's away average Since 1995:

Waugh : 57
Smith : 52
Lara : 49
Fleming: 48
Kohli : 46
Ponting : 46

 

[Ab Fan]

Better than sanga panga anyday. All day everyday.

Ponting? Joe beats him vs swing and spin. Not vs pace and bounce.

Relax buddy.

You never know someone might bash you by bringing Indians and Tendulkar and accuse them because you called Sanga a 'Panga'.

 

[kron]

You are correct about Smith.

Ponting Away from home as captain against the same top 6 teams: Avg 41 and 5 tons

Smith Away from home as captain against the same top 6 teams: Avg 48 and 8 tons



It's hard to start doing top 6 for all eras because top 6 changes in each era. So just in the last 30 years or so with all kinds of opposition when playing away, here are some of the captains.

Some captain's away average Since 1995:

Waugh : 57
Smith : 52
Lara : 49
Fleming: 48
Kohli : 46
Ponting : 46

46!!!!!!!!!

Not the time to mention that bro