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Angelo Mathews vs Virat Kohli - Who is the better Test Batsman?

Acricketfan said:
Try some new excuse. This one won't work.
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I don't need any new excuses. Those legends didn't take a squad to Bangladesh to get trounced, nor does any of them average below 15 in England and West Indies.

If you average below 15 in any country, let alone TWO, you have no right to be considered a good batsman, especially not in the league of those players you mentioned.
 
Acricketfan said:
So let's see

Number of test centuries by Kohli in Australia = 5

Number of test centuries by China made match winner , Mohammad yousuf , Younis khan , Mathews , Sanga and Mahela combined in Australia = 4

:))
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You make a fair point. It is undeniable that Kohli has performed well in Australia. However, his original point still stands in that he was absolutely abysmal in England. An average of 13 in 10 innings is pathetic. Mathews' record in England trounces that. He has double Kohli's runs in 6 less innings. Like you said, Kohli has a superior record in Australia than Mathews, but at least Mathews' record in Aus is mediocre...Kohli's record in England is downright pitiful.
 
as-95 said:
You make a fair point. It is undeniable that Kohli has performed well in Australia. However, his original point still stands in that he was absolutely abysmal in England. An average of 13 in 10 innings is pathetic. Mathews' record in England trounces that. He has double Kohli's runs in 6 less innings. Like you said, Kohli has a superior record in Australia than Mathews, but at least Mathews' record in Aus is mediocre...Kohli's record in England is downright pitiful.
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Mathews' record in Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and India is less than mediocre. Just because Kohli failed in his maiden tour to England does not mean the rest of his performances should be discounted.
 
Angelo is a much superior batsman. Hasn't been troubled by any type of bowling. It's ridiculous how much time he has playing pace and toys with spin. He has that Viv Aura when batting and the power to go with it, nearly impossible to dismiss him when settled.
 
Another match saving knock being played here by Mathews. The Indian lead is being reduced thanks to Mathews holding one end down.

Kohli is also doing fine for his team but Mathews is doing better and making more impactful contributions.
 
Angelo Matthews, majority FTB/HTB:

in Australia 2012-2013 3 6 0 175 75 29.16 379 46.17 0 1 0 25 0
in Bangladesh 2014-2014 2 3 1 134 86 67.00 212 63.20 0 1 0 11 2
in England 2014-2014 2 4 0 306 160 76.50 539 56.77 2 0 0 41 2
in India 2009-2009 3 5 0 149 99 29.80 213 69.95 0 1 0 21 2
in New Zealand 2014-2015 2 4 0 139 66 34.75 247 56.27 0 2 0 14 3
in South Africa 2011-2012 3 6 0 140 63 23.33 268 52.23 0 1 0 19 0
in Sri Lanka 2009-2015 30 48 14 2031 122 59.73 4128 49.20 2 13 1 214 23
in U.A.E. 2011-2014 6 11 3 587 157* 73.37 1383 42.44 1 4 0 61 4


So on bouncy wickets he is a typical subcontinental flat track Viv Richards... Quite surprised he did well in ENG...
 
Virat Kohli, one weakness: ENG

in Australia 2011-2015 8 992 169 62.00 5 0 - - 0 5 0 -
in Bangladesh 2015-2015 1 14 14 14.00 0 - - - - 0 0 -
in England 2014-2014 5 134 39 13.40 0 - - - - 1 0 -
in India 2011-2013 13 859 107 50.52 3 0 - - 0 16 0 -
in New Zealand 2014-2014 2 214 105* 71.33 1 0 - - 0 2 0 -
in South Africa 2013-2013 2 272 119 68.00 1 0 - - 0 1 0 -
in Sri Lanka 2015-2015 2 184 103 61.33 1 - - - - 0 0 -
in West Indies 2011-2011 3 76 30 15.20 0 - - - - 5 0 -
 
^ Doesn't say much. He played in India in 2009 and in South Africa and Australia in 2011-2012.

He's a much improved batsman now and pretty much the finished article - his performance in England last year is a true reflection of his quality.

Kohli himself is a top class Test batsman though, but he needs to learn to score big.

Mathews struggled in New Zealand earlier this year but he also failed at the World Cup, was going through a lean patch after a brilliant 2014.

Unfair to label him a FTB, unless he fails in Australia and South Africa again.
 
Mamoon said:
^ Doesn't say much. He played in India in 2009 and in South Africa and Australia in 2011-2012.

He's a much improved batsman now and pretty much the finished article - his performance in England last year is a true reflection of his quality.

Kohli himself is a top class Test batsman though, but he needs to learn to score big.

Mathews struggled in New Zealand earlier this year but he also failed at the World Cup, was going through a lean patch after a brilliant 2014.

Unfair to label him a FTB, unless he fails in Australia and South Africa again.
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I agree....
 
Whatever the result of the match is, Mathews is a class above Kohli as a test cricketer so far.
 
Mathews for now.

Haven't seen Kohli putting up too many fighting knocks like Mathews has.
 
Dman said:
Mathews for now.

Haven't seen Kohli putting up too many fighting knocks like Mathews has.
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Even if it was a batting track, his fight in Adelaide was great. Not as great as this one but still it was a very good one.

It was his only great innings.
 
ATM Matthews obviously a more mature batsman given his experience. Kohli has potential to become much better though.
 
Mobashir said:
Even if it was a batting track, his fight in Adelaide was great. Not as great as this one but still it was a very good one.

It was his only great innings.
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Mathews is better (as of now) and is more clutch but Adelaide was a superior innings for sure.

Lyon was turning it square. After Vijay, wickets kept falling but Kohli was pounding at 80+ SR.

If we had won, it would have been an all time Top 10 or Top 5 knock cos it would have broken a 100 year record in Adelaide.

Laraesque knock it was (except he got out).
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
Mathews is better (as of now) and is more clutch but Adelaide was a superior innings for sure.

Lyon was turning it square. After Vijay, wickets kept falling but Kohli was pounding at 80+ SR.

If we had won, it would have been an all time Top 10 or Top 5 knock cos it would have broken a 100 year record in Adelaide.

Laraesque knock it was (except he got out).
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I was thinking that day, that if India gets over the line. His knock would've been on par with Lara's 153, easily the best Indian knock. Sadly not to be :(
 
What a performer Mathews is - well on his way to be come Sri Lanka's second best batsman ever after Sangakkara.
 
Top knock today, if only he had good support from more batsmen, and not just Kusal Kaluwitharana.

I would say as an all round batsman Kohli is better, because he has a wider range of shots and in general is a better player when it comes to attack. For a situation like today though where you needed somebody to bat long, I would pick Angelo every time. His record in the fourth innings is fantastic and I think it's fair to say he is a more mature batsman than Kohli, though this means Kohli has more room to grow while Mathews is nearly the finished article.

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Six not outs from thirteen fourth innings knocks is a brilliant return, exactly what you want from your skipper.
 
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Mathews is a superior version of Misbah and an inferior version of Steve Waugh, while Kohli is a more dynamic and lethal batsman.

So yes, if you want to save a Test than Mathews is the better batsman, while Kohli is more of a watch-winner. Like I said before, won't look too much into Mathews' record in Australia and South Africa because we saw in England what he's capable of.

Truly a world class batsman and will definitely come good pretty much everywhere.
 
Mamoon said:
Mathews is a superior version of Misbah and an inferior version of Steve Waugh, while Kohli is a more dynamic and lethal batsman.

So yes, if you want to save a Test than Mathews is the better batsman, while Kohli is more of a watch-winner. Like I said before, won't look too much into Mathews' record in Australia and South Africa because we saw in England what he's capable of.

Truly a world class batsman and will definitely come good pretty much everywhere.
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Steve Waugh was an excellent and tough batsman but he wasn't much of a fourth innings player. Border was better than him in this regard and IMO is the best fourth innings bat of last few decades.
 
Mathews at the moment. But he has also had more experience in tests and is older than Kohli. Kohli will match him very shortly hopefully. Quite a few home tests await India and I have high hopes his average will go up shortly in tests (not that a 44ish average is bad but greater things are expected from our cappo)
 
On the subject of fourth innings batting, for me, the most telling stat is the number of not outs. If you're not out in the last innings then more often than not you've won, or at least saved the match. Border has 10 not outs in 35 which is a great return for what was a pretty weak team for most of his career. Leading the way is Desmond Haynes with 20 not outs from 45, an even better achievement since he was an opener.

d14e64186bdb4c80b6c13e6c643178e5.png
 
Matthews is slightly better atm but not on the basis of 4th innings performances.
What is Kohli's 4th innings avg ?
 
Pantani said:
Steve Waugh was an excellent and tough batsman but he wasn't much of a fourth innings player. Border was better than him in this regard and IMO is the best fourth innings bat of last few decades.
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Yeah, but it was a general comment based on batting style/role rather than actual fourth innings exploits.
 
Pantani said:
On the subject of fourth innings batting, for me, the most telling stat is the number of not outs. If you're not out in the last innings then more often than not you've won, or at least saved the match. Border has 10 not outs in 35 which is a great return for what was a pretty weak team for most of his career. Leading the way is Desmond Haynes with 20 not outs from 45, an even better achievement since he was an opener.

d14e64186bdb4c80b6c13e6c643178e5.png
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WI rarely needed to bat in the fourth innings and even if they did they were chasing a small target. Even their #3,4 batsman like Viv played only 1.7 fourth innings/year on average.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Mathews is better (as of now) and is more clutch but Adelaide was a superior innings for sure.

Lyon was turning it square. After Vijay, wickets kept falling but Kohli was pounding at 80+ SR.

If we had won, it would have been an all time Top 10 or Top 5 knock cos it would have broken a 100 year record in Adelaide.

Laraesque knock it was (except he got out).
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what a ridiculous post. u could say that about any number of innings. hell even tendulkar would be talked about as a match winner if he never got out in clutch situations.
 
anuk said:
what a ridiculous post. u could say that about any number of innings. hell even tendulkar would be talked about as a match winner if he never got out in clutch situations.
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A knock's quality is based on toughness and context. Once that is met, winning the match takes it to the next level.

SRT's 136 against Pakistan in a losing cause is a 100X better knock than his 100 against England where we successfully chased 383 and he remained till the end.

That Kohli's knock was as quality as it gets. But it doesn't go to the next level cos we lost.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
A knock's quality is based on toughness and context. Once that is met, winning the match takes it to the next level.

SRT's 136 against Pakistan in a losing cause is a 100X better knock than his 100 against England where we successfully chased 383 and he remained till the end.

That Kohli's knock was as quality as it gets. But it doesn't go to the next level cos we lost.
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it wasnt a lara-esqe knock cos he got out. that is what made lara special, he could take the team to an impossible win. there must be dozens of players who've played good knocks like kohli played in losing situations. i remember that 136 by tendulkar and thinking whether he would finally get the monkey off his back. he failed that day just like kohli did and mathews did today.

stop day dreaming about what could have been, kohli didn't see it through. the end.
 
Kohli is a better all round batsman, he just needs to sort out his poking outside off stump. Angelo is more gritty, doesn't have as many shots but is mentally very strong.

Both have a habit of scoring tons in losing causes :sachin
 
anuk said:
what a ridiculous post. u could say that about any number of innings. hell even tendulkar would be talked about as a match winner if he never got out in clutch situations.
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Some ridiculous people trying to put down Tendulkar doesn't make him any less of a match winner.
 
anuk said:
it wasnt a lara-esqe knock cos he got out. that is what made lara special, he could take the team to an impossible win. there must be dozens of players who've played good knocks like kohli played in losing situations. i remember that 136 by tendulkar and thinking whether he would finally get the monkey off his back. he failed that day just like kohli did and mathews did today.

stop day dreaming about what could have been, kohli didn't see it through. the end.
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Lara did it ONCE in his lifetime. So did Sachin in the highest ever chase in India. So the fantasy of Lara doing this regularly and Sachin failing regularly is just that, your fantasy
 
anuk said:
it wasnt a lara-esqe knock cos he got out. that is what made lara special, he could take the team to an impossible win. there must be dozens of players who've played good knocks like kohli played in losing situations. i remember that 136 by tendulkar and thinking whether he would finally get the monkey off his back. he failed that day just like kohli did and mathews did today.

stop day dreaming about what could have been, kohli didn't see it through. the end.
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Luck plays a part when playing those defining knocks. Lara got three lives if I remember correctly. All credit to Lara for using those chances, but some times you need those chances when playing big knocks.
 
kohli with his technique will never be good test player.he might average it above 60 and score 130 ball hundred in every test but can't handle it if the situation demands otherwise.
kohli would have perished yesterday had he been in situation Mathews was in .the runs on phatta Ausse wickets they played on don't count as playing a similar line up(bowlers) constantly in 10 innings would ease it a lot compared to playing variety.
kohli can't play a whole day if asked, might score 100 in a session but can't carry it on.He is a bit limited (one dimensional) unlike Mathews though stats might suggest otherwise.
All in all a great limited over batsman but can't say same about test.Also we know how he struggles when it starts to move a bit.it is just he has been lucky to be playing the ones that don't do much bcoz of his batting position .
conditions doesn't matter in that period of innings but he struggled in England as it lasts a bit longer where u can't hide behind openers.
 
kohli with his technique will never be good(impact) test player.he might average it above 60 and score 130 ball hundred in every test but can't handle it if the situation demands otherwise.
kohli would have perished yesterday had he been in situation Mathews was in .the runs on phatta Ausse wickets they played on don't count as playing a similar line up(bowlers) constantly in 10 innings would ease it a lot compared to playing variety.
kohli can't play a whole day if asked, might score 100 in a session but can't carry it on.He is a bit limited (one dimensional) unlike Mathews though stats might suggest otherwise.
All in all a great limited over batsman but can't say same about test.Also we know how he struggles when it starts to move a bit.it is just he has been lucky to be playing the ones that don't do much bcoz of his batting position .
conditions doesn't matter in that period of innings but he struggled in England as it lasts a bit longer where u can't hide behind openers.
 
Shoaib war said:
kohli with his technique will never be good test player.he might average it above 60 and score 130 ball hundred in every test but can't handle it if the situation demands otherwise.
kohli would have perished yesterday had he been in situation Mathews was in .the runs on phatta Ausse wickets they played on don't count as playing a similar line up(bowlers) constantly in 10 innings would ease it a lot compared to playing variety.
kohli can't play a whole day if asked, might score 100 in a session but can't carry it on.He is a bit limited (one dimensional) unlike Mathews though stats might suggest otherwise.
All in all a great limited over batsman but can't say same about test.Also we know how he struggles when it starts to move a bit.it is just he has been lucky to be playing the ones that don't do much bcoz of his batting position .
conditions doesn't matter in that period of innings but he struggled in England as it lasts a bit longer where u can't hide behind openers.
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Not too many batsmen these days can. Unless Kohli can stop chasing the wide deliveries I don't see him playing a match winning clutch knock on wickets that have something in them for the bowlers.
 
People are underestimating Mathews' dynamism. He is not your classy stroke player but he can hit the ball hard and can play pretty much all around the ground. He can up the tempo if he wants as he showed in England but due to inexperience in the batting lineup, big scores from him every match are a necessity which will make any batsman go into their shell.
 
Yeah,but his temperament won't allow him even after that.he will try to do something cheeky every now and then.
 
Angelo Mathews plays within his limitations, so he succeeds. But Kohli tries to go beyond his limitations, so he fails.
 
Kohli has a blatant and severe weakness to the moving ball outside his off-stump. Even Prasad was able to exploit this and several other bowlers have as well, Anderson and Junaid being the most well-known ones. Despite this, he does average 45 and is a good batsman.

I don't think Matthews has any such weaknesses which is why he is the superior batsman.
 
Mathews is a fantastic batsman who should be averaging 50+ in both Tests and ODIs, but his career has been stunted since 2014.

These should have been his peak years, but as a result of injuries and the chaotic situation of Sri Lankan cricket, he has severely underperformed.
 
Bilal7 said:
Kohli has a blatant and severe weakness to the moving ball outside his off-stump. Even Prasad was able to exploit this and several other bowlers have as well, Anderson and Junaid being the most well-known ones. Despite this, he does average 45 and is a good batsman.

I don't think Matthews has any such weaknesses which is why he is the superior batsman.
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This has made my day
 
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