What's new

Any old-school wrestling fans here?

RedwoodOriginal

Senior T20I Player
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Runs
17,568
Post of the Week
4
So this whole pandemic situation has given me too much free time on my hand which inadvertently led to me revisiting a very fond past-time of mine: pro-wrestling. I stopped watching wrestling about a more than decade ago because it had turned into absolute nonsense. All the edginess in particular was gone. But I remember being absolutely crazy for it during 2003-06. I would say I was a fan of early WCW and the Attitude Era aswell. The stuff before that was too hokey for me to get into.

So I guess I was just interested to know if there were any old-school pro-wrestling fans here...
 
So this whole pandemic situation has given me too much free time on my hand which inadvertently led to me revisiting a very fond past-time of mine: pro-wrestling. I stopped watching wrestling about a more than decade ago because it had turned into absolute nonsense. All the edginess in particular was gone. But I remember being absolutely crazy for it during 2003-06. I would say I was a fan of early WCW and the Attitude Era aswell. The stuff before that was too hokey for me to get into.

So I guess I was just interested to know if there were any old-school pro-wrestling fans here...

Well here is a massive Sting / WCW fan but after the 1997 starrcade debace I lost interest.
 
I was a Bret Hart fan then switched to 'The Rock' best mic skills in the history of WWE.
 
If we're saying the 90s is old school, then for sure!

As a kid from roughly 95, through the MNWs, Attitude Era, Austin/Rock/DX/NWO/Goldberg through to the last days of Lesnar and Goldberg in WWE, I was a huge wrestling fan. Then came the dark years, John Cena, Randy Orton, Evolution, fat HHH, and a bunch of old guys who kept returning ad nauseaum.

I got back into wrestling about 4 or 5 years ago, maybe slightly more, but that is simply as a basis for me to laugh at the product and joke around about it. Recently I tried to get into AEW, a new brand and I am not sure if its meant to be a sitcom or....I am not seeing the new, gritty direction they claim to be taking.
 
Well here is a massive Sting / WCW fan but after the 1997 starrcade debace I lost interest.

WCW really dropped the ball with that one. It was a swift and painful demise after that.

WCW had alot of talent: Sting, Goldberg, Booker, Bret (during the early days). Their Cruiserweight division was particularly exciting and full of talent. But their fixation with nWo, aswell as alot of nonsense just made them come off as a joke. During the '97-99 period alot of people just began changing the channel.
 
If we're saying the 90s is old school, then for sure!

As a kid from roughly 95, through the MNWs, Attitude Era, Austin/Rock/DX/NWO/Goldberg through to the last days of Lesnar and Goldberg in WWE, I was a huge wrestling fan. Then came the dark years, John Cena, Randy Orton, Evolution, fat HHH, and a bunch of old guys who kept returning ad nauseaum.

I got back into wrestling about 4 or 5 years ago, maybe slightly more, but that is simply as a basis for me to laugh at the product and joke around about it. Recently I tried to get into AEW, a new brand and I am not sure if its meant to be a sitcom or....I am not seeing the new, gritty direction they claim to be taking.

Yeah definitely. Because I was never really into the 80s stuff. Wrestling for me really took off in the 90s, late 90s and for a time-period both WWF and WCW were doing great things. Then WCW absolutely tanked to embarrassing lows. But WWE for me was still good till '06. You could handle John Cena at that point eventho it was obvious he was gonna be the next face of the company and going to be shoved down everybody's throats. And I really dug the whole Evolution angle which led to the rise of Batista and Orton as a main-event stars. WWE needed guys like them after the departure of Lesnar, Goldberg, Rock and Stone Cold.

I too followed wrestling again during the CM Punk's push in 2011. That was a great arc that I enjoyed because a) the matches were pretty good and b) Punk knew how to cut a promo. But even then he felt like an odd man out and a wrestler stuck in the wrong era. I could barely handle their sanitized PG rated product back then, I don't think I will be able to handle it now. Plus I don't think I will like 99% of the new guys.
 
Last edited:
I was a huge HBK fan. Shawn Michaels was good. After HBK, I used to like Kurt Angle.

From tag teams, I liked the Hardy Boys. I used to like TLC (Tables, Ladders, Chairs) match between Edge/Christian, Dudley Boys, and Hardy Boys.
 
Last edited:
I was a Bret Hart fan then switched to 'The Rock' best mic skills in the history of WWE.

Rock definitely had 'it'. Not just with the mic skills but in the ring too. He was super fun to watch when he had the momentum going.

Bret probably would have had an even greater career in WWE had Shawn Michaels not been Shawn Michaels.
 
I was a huge HBK fan. Shawn Michaels was good. After HBK, I used to like Kurt Angle.

From tag teams, I liked the Hardy Boys. I used to like TLC (Tables, Ladders, Chairs) match between Edge/Christian, Dudley Boys, and Hardy Boys.

I don't think there's a wrestler I detest more than Michaels. But that has nothing to do with his in-ring talent which was undoubtedly very good.

Hardy Boyz, Dudley Boyz, Edge/Christain remade the tag division. Their Ladder and TLC matches were classics and so entertaining. Particularly the ones at WrestleMania.
 
I also used to like Hardcore Championship matches. They used to fight everywhere.

Steve Blackman, Tazz, Essa Rios, Melanko, Raven etc.
 
Watching wwe/f of 90s and got some useful info Brother Love introduced the Mortician annd isaac jacobs
90s was fun wrestling
 
Anyone remember Zeus ? Beast of a wrestler. He even made a movie with Hulk Hogan back in the late 80s if I remember.
 
Oh yes (pardon the pun).

Now I prefer to listen to shoot interviews and podcasts because frankly the behind the scenes stuff is more interesting than the tumbling routines and painfully scripted verbiage put out today.
 
I used to think of myself as Shawn Michaels lol
 
WCW really dropped the ball with that one. It was a swift and painful demise after that.

WCW had alot of talent: Sting, Goldberg, Booker, Bret (during the early days). Their Cruiserweight division was particularly exciting and full of talent. But their fixation with nWo, aswell as alot of nonsense just made them come off as a joke. During the '97-99 period alot of people just began changing the channel.

Never understood the match at starrcade between sting and hogan. 16 months of build up and to deliver such a contest!

I guess it was hogan using his creative control. Sting joining NWO wolfpac made also no sense at all.:angelo
 
Some of my favorite matches from old school wrestling:

1) Mankind vs The Undertaker (Hell in a Cell).
2) Hardy Boys vs Dudley Boys vs Edge/Christian (SummerSlam TLC match).
3) The Rock vs Stone Cold (Wrestlemania).
4) Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit.
5) Kurt Angle vs HBK (Wrestlemania).
6) HBK vs HHH (SummerSlam 2002).
7) Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar.
8) The Undertaker vs Kane.
9) The Rock vs Kurt Angle vs Triple H.
10) Chris Jericho vs Triple H.
11) Kevin Nash vs Triple H (Hell in a Cell).
12) Brock Lesnar vs The Rock.
13) Booker T vs The Rock.

Always found Hulk Hogan very boring and overrated.
 
Last edited:
Macho Man Randy Savage
Hulk Hogan
Ultimate Warrior

Legends :)
 
i use to be a big hulk hogan fan growing up, but then switched to bret hart till he left WWF for WCW, still remember his brothers death like yesterday, that was tragic.

Then i was a rock fan till it became WWE and never watched it again
 
Pro wrestling was at its best during attitude era and monday night wars. Unfortunately wrestling will never reach those peaks again.

Many people forget that Old school wrestling (pre 1996) was also a PG show directed towards kids/family. Hogan was the super hero who used to beat evil giants like Andre the Giant etc. Kids used to adore and love it. Then once WCW Nitro started beating WWFs Raw in ratings war...Vince decided to make it an adult show which we today know as Attitude era.

Attitude era was more about backstage gimmics, pyros, edgy catchphrases than just normal wrestling. So say if your name is John Smith, in current PG era you will called as John Smith. But in attitude era you would perhaps be called something like "Ministry of evil John" :)) It was also an era of anti heros rather than regular boring good guys beating down demons.

Attitude era finished in 2001 but even the ruthless agression era which replaced it was amazing. My only issue with RA era was they could have utilized WCW wrestlers better and that alliance storyline was a screwup.

Some of my favorite matches:
Undertaker vs Manking (Hell in a cell)
Austin vs Bret Hart (WM 13)
Rock vs Lesnar (2002 summerslam)
Royal Rumble 2004

I have stopped watching wrestling regularly since 2004 (WM 20). I only watch if some old timers make a return like Rock, Austin, HBK etc. But it is painfully sad to see my childhood hero Goldberg return and making a joke of himself. Wished he stayed retired.
 
Never understood the match at starrcade between sting and hogan. 16 months of build up and to deliver such a contest!

I guess it was hogan using his creative control. Sting joining NWO wolfpac made also no sense at all.:angelo

Could be. Hogan was known to be a politician and a toxic presence backstage. Besides being a guy who always had to win, he had the tendency to come up with such hair-brained ideas and the influence to push them through. But I think with guys like Eric Bischoff behind-the-scenes and other clowns WCW was always going to sink. Vince Russo later applied the finishing touches with his own nonsense and destroyed any goodwill left in the brand.

But yeah, Starrcade '97 really was the tipping point after which the show completely went off the rails. Which is a shame because people were invested in that angle/match for such a long time.
 
Pro wrestling was at its best during attitude era and monday night wars. Unfortunately wrestling will never reach those peaks again.

Many people forget that Old school wrestling (pre 1996) was also a PG show directed towards kids/family. Hogan was the super hero who used to beat evil giants like Andre the Giant etc. Kids used to adore and love it. Then once WCW Nitro started beating WWFs Raw in ratings war...Vince decided to make it an adult show which we today know as Attitude era.

Attitude era was more about backstage gimmics, pyros, edgy catchphrases than just normal wrestling. So say if your name is John Smith, in current PG era you will called as John Smith. But in attitude era you would perhaps be called something like "Ministry of evil John" :)) It was also an era of anti heros rather than regular boring good guys beating down demons.

Attitude era finished in 2001 but even the ruthless agression era which replaced it was amazing. My only issue with RA era was they could have utilized WCW wrestlers better and that alliance storyline was a screwup.

Some of my favorite matches:
Undertaker vs Manking (Hell in a cell)
Austin vs Bret Hart (WM 13)
Rock vs Lesnar (2002 summerslam)
Royal Rumble 2004

I have stopped watching wrestling regularly since 2004 (WM 20). I only watch if some old timers make a return like Rock, Austin, HBK etc. But it is painfully sad to see my childhood hero Goldberg return and making a joke of himself. Wished he stayed retired.

Totally agree. Monday Night Wars was peak pro-wrestling. It has basically become a sanitized, packaged product now.

They could have done so much with that Invasion angle but in the end Vince made it about his family which I think just made everyone roll their eyes. I also think Vince was bitter about some of the WCW guys and probably wanted to punish them or something.

Ruthless Aggression era though still had some remarkably good matches which put it on-par with the Attitude Era, atleast for me. Matches like:

Angle vs. Lesnar (WM 19)
Benoit vs. HHH vs. Michaels (WM 20)
Orton vs. Benoit (SummerSlam 2004)
Batista vs. HHH (WM 21 & Vengeance 2005)

I mean I guess I understand why these guys are back. They are getting more money for less work. And I'm sure they are getting paid ALOT for these occasional appearances. More than anything it just makes you feel bad for the guys who give it their all (whoever they may be) and are on the road 200+ days of the year. They all are just playing second fiddle to Cena and these part-timers who clearly only care about making money.
 
Some of my favorite matches from old school wrestling:

1) Mankind vs The Undertaker (Hell in a Cell).
2) Hardy Boys vs Dudley Boys vs Edge/Christian (SummerSlam TLC match).
3) The Rock vs Stone Cold (Wrestlemania).
4) Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit.
5) Kurt Angle vs HBK (Wrestlemania).
6) HBK vs HHH (SummerSlam 2002).
7) Goldberg vs Brock Lesnar.
8) The Undertaker vs Kane.
9) The Rock vs Kurt Angle vs Triple H.
10) Chris Jericho vs Triple H.
11) Kevin Nash vs Triple H (Hell in a Cell).
12) Brock Lesnar vs The Rock.
13) Booker T vs The Rock.

Always found Hulk Hogan very boring and overrated.

Kurt Angle in any high-profile match always had a 90% chance of being a classic. The one against Benoit at Royal Rumble is right up there.

That's a good list. Personally, I would probably add HHH vs HBK vs Benoit at WM 20 aswell.

As for Hogan, the guy stopped being relevant in the 80s but he used his politicking and star-power to milk every dime eventho everyone (including himself) knew he was useless in the ring.
 
Oh yes (pardon the pun).

Now I prefer to listen to shoot interviews and podcasts because frankly the behind the scenes stuff is more interesting than the tumbling routines and painfully scripted verbiage put out today.

Hahah I totally agree. I went down a pretty slippery slope of shoot interviews on YouTube recently and I have to say it is some captivating stuff.
 
Rock definitely had 'it'. Not just with the mic skills but in the ring too. He was super fun to watch when he had the momentum going.

Bret probably would have had an even greater career in WWE had Shawn Michaels not been Shawn Michaels.

Rock always had the best comebacks and made others look uncomfortable at times. Then John Cena came and I stopped watching WWE as I can hardly see him.

Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart was intense, my older brother was a Michaels fan and he would play the Shawn Michaels theme song every morning in the car while going to school and hit on girls :butt

Eddie Gurrero was fun to watch at times too.

I liked the Survivor series Bret Hart vs Austin, this is where Bret turned heel and the rise of Austin 3:16 - give me a couple of halal root beer :akhtar
 
Yeah definitely. Because I was never really into the 80s stuff. Wrestling for me really took off in the 90s, late 90s and for a time-period both WWF and WCW were doing great things. Then WCW absolutely tanked to embarrassing lows. But WWE for me was still good till '06. You could handle John Cena at that point eventho it was obvious he was gonna be the next face of the company and going to be shoved down everybody's throats. And I really dug the whole Evolution angle which led to the rise of Batista and Orton as a main-event stars. WWE needed guys like them after the departure of Lesnar, Goldberg, Rock and Stone Cold.

I too followed wrestling again during the CM Punk's push in 2011. That was a great arc that I enjoyed because a) the matches were pretty good and b) Punk knew how to cut a promo. But even then he felt like an odd man out and a wrestler stuck in the wrong era. I could barely handle their sanitized PG rated product back then, I don't think I will be able to handle it now. Plus I don't think I will like 99% of the new guys.

Yeah, if you wana watch wrestling now as a serious tv format like in the 90s and 00s, I dont think youll like it. If you watch it ironically like me, to have a bit of a laugh and not to take any of it seriously, you might find some enjoyment. The guys these days are acrobats rather than wrestlers, which in itself can be some what fun.
 
John Cena and PG killed WWE. Period.

WWE died when John Cena got drafted to RAW back in 2005. That was the beginning of end.

It was not Cena's fault though. It was fault of WWE. They wanted to become PG.
 
I'd say the AE era got me into the product when I was younger but since then have watched plenty of archive footage and I have deep admiration for the territory era when the Nature Boy Ric Flair put the industry on the map and had countless classics wit and the likes of Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Harley Race and Sting; NWA's Jim Crocket promotions made tweaks to the studio style of wrestling which was pioneered by Cow Boy Bill Watt's, in many ways it gave inspiration to shows such as RAW and Smackdown we have today given the episodic format which utilised strong observance of kayfabe (protecting your character, storyline and the business), an emphasis on developing your persona through concise/emphatic promos and a simplified approach to booking which was designed to get wrestlers over by having the heels build heat; today you see too many 50/50 matches now it may make sense if it's the blow off but nobody gets over in those type of scenarios. I also admire how seriously they took their art, there was no prancing around; hey even back then their were whispers surrounding the nature of how things actually worked but the promoter and his talents would always take special measures by staying in character at all times, the heels and faces would not be seen in public and would also be kept in separate locker rooms during feuds, heck at one point in Mid-South a newspaper speculated how Jake Roberts would be working his final match for the territory and its custom to do the 'job' on the way out, Bill made sure he went over that night lol Additionally, if you got into a real fight; you'd need to make sure you won because you weren't going to find yourself in employment when it came your career as a wrestler. But all in all, the emphatic promos and raw passion combined with excellent in-ring performances which we saw on PPV where it made sense for performers to go all out and put those behinds on seats was the spark which helped take the businesses popularity to another level in NA and beyond.

Vince did a tremendous job to create a monopoly by defeating majority of the territories and while Ric Flair was a big coup for him the legends heart was always with WCW who he left due to creative differences; at that point he was still a major draw and for him to go over in the 1992 Royal Rumble with the WWF peaking at the height of the golden era of wrestling, it finally did the greatest ever justice and was the culmination of a legendary pro wrestling career which was never to be equalled, with a tear in Ric's eye as he said; it was the greatest moment of his life and for many of the true fans of the industry it genuinely was, one of the good guys finally went over when we always new he was vastly superior to the likes of Hulk Hogan.

The golden era itself which was spearheaded by the WWF did have its wacky moments and was a little goofy but it did showcase some excellent characters which included Hogan, Savage, Steamboat, Piper, Bret and the Ultimate Warrior; from time to time they did have some excellent feuds which led to great pay offs in the ring; Andre/Hogan gave a memorable moment, Savage/Flair were ahead of their time in terms of the 50/50 style they showcased but also displaying their excellent technical pedigree, Warrior/Hogan was rare in how you had two very popular faces lock horns and they delivered in the ring as well and one of my favourites, the Savage/Warrior retirement match after an excellent in-ring encounter led to one of the greatest moments in the history of wrestling and closed a 6 year on/off screen storyline arc involving Savage and Miss Elizabeth,

The steroid scandal and involvement of Ted Turner in the wrestling business would change everything, WWF would see new lows in terms of their popularity and revenues but turned away from the bigger dudes by giving the likes of HBK and Bret the Torch to carry the main-event picture, and they were both popular in their own right because they kept the ship afloat despite WCW being the more edgy product which was in tune with popular culture, people didn't want to the gobbledy gooker or the canadian mountie, they wanted to see dark and gritty characters who blurred the lines between good and bad, this is why Undertaker would soon turn into a face and people had still been cheering Austin before his full blown face turn in arguably one of the greatest matches in history at WM 13 with Bret. The new generation would still put good in the table and what ultimately saved the company was their extreme levels of professionalism while WCW just self-destructed, they had the NWO book their shows, ruined Goldberg and even the aura of Sting / Ric Flair; it all went down hill after Starcade 1997 and from a business POV they didn't seem to understand that you make fans pay to see Hogan / Goldberg but Russo had other ideas when it came to his philosophy, now Vince did use some of his ideas during the 90s but he filtered most of them, you give that man all creative freedom and you're going to suffer. Austin blew up and the rest was history, when I look back the monday night wars was the peak in wrestlings popularity but at the same time while it created great characters it relived heavily on car crash TV and memorable moments. I personally feel the RA era had the best combination of in-ring work and cohesive story telling as far as the WWF/E was concerned.

They did botch the invasion angle but during that time I'd say the AE era had not ended and WWF found themselves in a tricky spot where they had acquired WCW but not the guaranteed contracts of the likes of NWO and Goldberg, post WM 17 we were in purgatory but the return of HBK and emergence of Brock Lesnar helped carve out long term booking plans and build on the brand split idea with so much talent in the company The RA era was led at the of the card by HBK and The Undertaker while we saw the company take a chance with emerging talent such as Batista, Edge, Cena, Orton and Lesnar who for the most part repaid the faith/investment, with Heyman on SD the promotion thrived creatively and financially with some truly thrilling performances from Eddie, Angle, Mysterio, Cena and the Undertaker while RAW was led by HBK, Evolution and supported by Booker T, RVD and Kane.

When Cena was drafted to RAW the company was not testing waters with the PG ethos at the time, they were still TV-14 people forget that; he had outlived his gimmick as the Rapper and lets be honest it's an upper-mid card level persona, he had a tremendous ability on the mic even though he was green as a wrestler and that truly resonated with the younger audience, so Vince protected him heavily but in between the likes of Edge did get to shine although RVD just couldn't help himself even after the company gave him his shot despite it being perhaps 4 years too late. I'd say it wasn't fun at the top of the card to see John go over all the time, but the feuds and in-ring action was still compelling and on the SD world Rey Mysterio, Kurt Angle, Batista and the Undertaker had excellent encounters when it came to the WHC picture.

What COMPLETELY transformed the business of pro wrestling was CHRIS BENOIT and not John Cena, Benoit turned the industry on his entire head, after his heinous acts and the bad press wrestling recieved given how his mental injuries and steroid abuse were emphasised the WWE were forced to go PG, blood was banned, chair shots to the head were not allowed and the company introduced a wellness policy; while creatively this period may not have been enthralling as it hinders what stars were able to do in terms of their promos as these were then scripted heavily and also in the ring; it protected the wrestlers from themselves and improved their working rights, these guys are on the road 365 days a year and there's no off season for them, we only see the live shows but beyond that there are non televised events, the schedule combined with the brutal travel just takes its toll. And who is better then Cena to be that guy to carry them through this phase ? and as far as his critics were concerns he would inevitably silence those who would chant that he couldn't wrestle, he wasn't gifted athletically but his work ethic and drive to improve resulted in a significant improvement from the in-ring performances to the point where fans began to clamour for a heel turn. But the PG era still gave us the memorable summer of Punk and arguably the greatest match in history between Taker and HBK and WM 25.

The PG era would take a turn as the WWE would change the tone from a lighter one to slightly more edgier product which is primarily built on in-ring work and athleticism, the return of Lesnar boosted their legitimacy to in a massive way as we saw him return to an old-school style of working in the ring after he dethroned Taker and only Lesnar truly would be able to have such success as a special attraction in the company. There may not be as much emphasis on ring psychology now and this isn't more evident if you watch anything from Japan where wrestlers just trade moves and go 50/50 against the same opponents over and over again, but then they get it right in NA no one does it better then Vince; stars such as AJ Styles, Roman Reigns and Bray Wyatt are no mugs but remember they also work in a very constrained and heavily scripted set-up. But more me I still follow it as outside all the things I may not necessarily be in favour of if there's one good segment or a specific match I enjoy it's worth it, The Fiend Bray Wyatt would do well in any era on the mic, AJ Styles pound for pound is an outstanding in-ring talent, people complain about the lot being too small / a bunch of cruserweights but look no further then Roman Reigns who sells extremely well and is a tremendous brawler and then there's NXT who utilise a more independent style of working if that floats your boat but also used as WWE's very own development territory. With anything you reserve judgement if spend a significant time watching the product and while I think I may never see another HBK in his prime or a persona like Taker, the likes of AJ Styles, Reigns, Bryan and Wyatt can still suspend that disbelief of old but here's hoping creatively WWE show the vision to relax some of their restrictions and focus more on giving talent chances as they did when the competition came knocking.
 
So this whole pandemic situation has given me too much free time on my hand which inadvertently led to me revisiting a very fond past-time of mine: pro-wrestling. I stopped watching wrestling about a more than decade ago because it had turned into absolute nonsense. All the edginess in particular was gone. But I remember being absolutely crazy for it during 2003-06. I would say I was a fan of early WCW and the Attitude Era aswell. The stuff before that was too hokey for me to get into.

So I guess I was just interested to know if there were any old-school pro-wrestling fans here...

The network is free this week prior to mania, I've watched a fair amount of archive footage including Bret/Austin, all of the matches between HBK and Taker apart from the Casket encounter which should have ended Shawns career and my all time favourite HBK v Angle at WM 21, truly spectacular. The documentaries are out standing, I watched the first ever Hell in a Cell prior to the WWE Untold episode, they will air the documentary on the HBK v Angle match tomorrow as well, look forward to that
 
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So....all of them? <a href="https://t.co/FqzgIVsZLi">https://t.co/FqzgIVsZLi</a></p>— Lance Storm (@LanceStorm) <a href="https://twitter.com/LanceStorm/status/1245475545124466690?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Check out HBK v Angle prior to watching the documentary below perhaps! this should be very insightful:

 
I'd say the AE era got me into the product when I was younger but since then have watched plenty of archive footage and I have deep admiration for the territory era when the Nature Boy Ric Flair put the industry on the map and had countless classics wit and the likes of Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Harley Race and Sting; NWA's Jim Crocket promotions made tweaks to the studio style of wrestling which was pioneered by Cow Boy Bill Watt's, in many ways it gave inspiration to shows such as RAW and Smackdown we have today given the episodic format which utilised strong observance of kayfabe (protecting your character, storyline and the business), an emphasis on developing your persona through concise/emphatic promos and a simplified approach to booking which was designed to get wrestlers over by having the heels build heat; today you see too many 50/50 matches now it may make sense if it's the blow off but nobody gets over in those type of scenarios. I also admire how seriously they took their art, there was no prancing around; hey even back then their were whispers surrounding the nature of how things actually worked but the promoter and his talents would always take special measures by staying in character at all times, the heels and faces would not be seen in public and would also be kept in separate locker rooms during feuds, heck at one point in Mid-South a newspaper speculated how Jake Roberts would be working his final match for the territory and its custom to do the 'job' on the way out, Bill made sure he went over that night lol Additionally, if you got into a real fight; you'd need to make sure you won because you weren't going to find yourself in employment when it came your career as a wrestler. But all in all, the emphatic promos and raw passion combined with excellent in-ring performances which we saw on PPV where it made sense for performers to go all out and put those behinds on seats was the spark which helped take the businesses popularity to another level in NA and beyond.

Vince did a tremendous job to create a monopoly by defeating majority of the territories and while Ric Flair was a big coup for him the legends heart was always with WCW who he left due to creative differences; at that point he was still a major draw and for him to go over in the 1992 Royal Rumble with the WWF peaking at the height of the golden era of wrestling, it finally did the greatest ever justice and was the culmination of a legendary pro wrestling career which was never to be equalled, with a tear in Ric's eye as he said; it was the greatest moment of his life and for many of the true fans of the industry it genuinely was, one of the good guys finally went over when we always new he was vastly superior to the likes of Hulk Hogan.

The golden era itself which was spearheaded by the WWF did have its wacky moments and was a little goofy but it did showcase some excellent characters which included Hogan, Savage, Steamboat, Piper, Bret and the Ultimate Warrior; from time to time they did have some excellent feuds which led to great pay offs in the ring; Andre/Hogan gave a memorable moment, Savage/Flair were ahead of their time in terms of the 50/50 style they showcased but also displaying their excellent technical pedigree, Warrior/Hogan was rare in how you had two very popular faces lock horns and they delivered in the ring as well and one of my favourites, the Savage/Warrior retirement match after an excellent in-ring encounter led to one of the greatest moments in the history of wrestling and closed a 6 year on/off screen storyline arc involving Savage and Miss Elizabeth,

The steroid scandal and involvement of Ted Turner in the wrestling business would change everything, WWF would see new lows in terms of their popularity and revenues but turned away from the bigger dudes by giving the likes of HBK and Bret the Torch to carry the main-event picture, and they were both popular in their own right because they kept the ship afloat despite WCW being the more edgy product which was in tune with popular culture, people didn't want to the gobbledy gooker or the canadian mountie, they wanted to see dark and gritty characters who blurred the lines between good and bad, this is why Undertaker would soon turn into a face and people had still been cheering Austin before his full blown face turn in arguably one of the greatest matches in history at WM 13 with Bret. The new generation would still put good in the table and what ultimately saved the company was their extreme levels of professionalism while WCW just self-destructed, they had the NWO book their shows, ruined Goldberg and even the aura of Sting / Ric Flair; it all went down hill after Starcade 1997 and from a business POV they didn't seem to understand that you make fans pay to see Hogan / Goldberg but Russo had other ideas when it came to his philosophy, now Vince did use some of his ideas during the 90s but he filtered most of them, you give that man all creative freedom and you're going to suffer. Austin blew up and the rest was history, when I look back the monday night wars was the peak in wrestlings popularity but at the same time while it created great characters it relived heavily on car crash TV and memorable moments. I personally feel the RA era had the best combination of in-ring work and cohesive story telling as far as the WWF/E was concerned.

They did botch the invasion angle but during that time I'd say the AE era had not ended and WWF found themselves in a tricky spot where they had acquired WCW but not the guaranteed contracts of the likes of NWO and Goldberg, post WM 17 we were in purgatory but the return of HBK and emergence of Brock Lesnar helped carve out long term booking plans and build on the brand split idea with so much talent in the company The RA era was led at the of the card by HBK and The Undertaker while we saw the company take a chance with emerging talent such as Batista, Edge, Cena, Orton and Lesnar who for the most part repaid the faith/investment, with Heyman on SD the promotion thrived creatively and financially with some truly thrilling performances from Eddie, Angle, Mysterio, Cena and the Undertaker while RAW was led by HBK, Evolution and supported by Booker T, RVD and Kane.

When Cena was drafted to RAW the company was not testing waters with the PG ethos at the time, they were still TV-14 people forget that; he had outlived his gimmick as the Rapper and lets be honest it's an upper-mid card level persona, he had a tremendous ability on the mic even though he was green as a wrestler and that truly resonated with the younger audience, so Vince protected him heavily but in between the likes of Edge did get to shine although RVD just couldn't help himself even after the company gave him his shot despite it being perhaps 4 years too late. I'd say it wasn't fun at the top of the card to see John go over all the time, but the feuds and in-ring action was still compelling and on the SD world Rey Mysterio, Kurt Angle, Batista and the Undertaker had excellent encounters when it came to the WHC picture.

What COMPLETELY transformed the business of pro wrestling was CHRIS BENOIT and not John Cena, Benoit turned the industry on his entire head, after his heinous acts and the bad press wrestling recieved given how his mental injuries and steroid abuse were emphasised the WWE were forced to go PG, blood was banned, chair shots to the head were not allowed and the company introduced a wellness policy; while creatively this period may not have been enthralling as it hinders what stars were able to do in terms of their promos as these were then scripted heavily and also in the ring; it protected the wrestlers from themselves and improved their working rights, these guys are on the road 365 days a year and there's no off season for them, we only see the live shows but beyond that there are non televised events, the schedule combined with the brutal travel just takes its toll. And who is better then Cena to be that guy to carry them through this phase ? and as far as his critics were concerns he would inevitably silence those who would chant that he couldn't wrestle, he wasn't gifted athletically but his work ethic and drive to improve resulted in a significant improvement from the in-ring performances to the point where fans began to clamour for a heel turn. But the PG era still gave us the memorable summer of Punk and arguably the greatest match in history between Taker and HBK and WM 25.

The PG era would take a turn as the WWE would change the tone from a lighter one to slightly more edgier product which is primarily built on in-ring work and athleticism, the return of Lesnar boosted their legitimacy to in a massive way as we saw him return to an old-school style of working in the ring after he dethroned Taker and only Lesnar truly would be able to have such success as a special attraction in the company. There may not be as much emphasis on ring psychology now and this isn't more evident if you watch anything from Japan where wrestlers just trade moves and go 50/50 against the same opponents over and over again, but then they get it right in NA no one does it better then Vince; stars such as AJ Styles, Roman Reigns and Bray Wyatt are no mugs but remember they also work in a very constrained and heavily scripted set-up. But more me I still follow it as outside all the things I may not necessarily be in favour of if there's one good segment or a specific match I enjoy it's worth it, The Fiend Bray Wyatt would do well in any era on the mic, AJ Styles pound for pound is an outstanding in-ring talent, people complain about the lot being too small / a bunch of cruserweights but look no further then Roman Reigns who sells extremely well and is a tremendous brawler and then there's NXT who utilise a more independent style of working if that floats your boat but also used as WWE's very own development territory. With anything you reserve judgement if spend a significant time watching the product and while I think I may never see another HBK in his prime or a persona like Taker, the likes of AJ Styles, Reigns, Bryan and Wyatt can still suspend that disbelief of old but here's hoping creatively WWE show the vision to relax some of their restrictions and focus more on giving talent chances as they did when the competition came knocking.

Had no idea Benoit was the reason WWE went PG but it makes sense considering the shocking nature of what he did on his last two days.

I personally never got Ric Flair. When I pictured a wrestler I always pictured someone like Goldberg or Lesnar. But also Bret, Orton, Benoit, Angle who didn't exactly have that intimidating physique but had the in-ring talent. Even with guys like Mysterio and the cruiserweights they had at WCW, I got it. They were about something. But I struggled to understand the hype and aura around Flair. He always seemed like someone who never really moved out of the 70s. Those nasty blade-jobs when he returned to WWE didn't make him anymore interesting.

I agree with you on most stuff. But I don't think I will ever be tuning in again. CM Punk was really the only reason I was watching last time. When he was wasted at the expense of part-timers I stopped watching and from what I understand he himself left soon afterwards aswell. But even when I google the stuff it befuddles me what the WWE has become. I mean you have jobbers like Jinder Mahal (who were jobbers because they couldn't wrestle in the first place) being pumped up on steroids and being made champion so WWE can tap into the Indian market. Most of the guys don't even look like wrestlers and reading their names makes me want to not even know what their gimmicks are. WWE going to Saudi Arabia which just made me laugh my *** off. I can't even get invested in the new guys Roman, Rollins, Bray Wyatt, Daniel Bryan. Roman I think isn't accepted by the fans either. Whereas, Bryan who is a seasoned performer I guess by now is literally a poor man's Benoit, and massively over-hyped.
 
I was a huge Austin & Rock fan growing up so obviously Stone Cold vs Rock @WM17 is to me the greatest ever match. Then a year after, hogan vs Rock was so amazing. I didnt knew who Hogan was at that time(i was 8-9 at that time) I still remember Hogan turning into Hulk & how we all(who were watching) became worried that if Rock would lose to this old man, austin fans would literally kill us with their words😅😅😅
Wrestling was fun in those days.
 
Had no idea Benoit was the reason WWE went PG but it makes sense considering the shocking nature of what he did on his last two days.

I personally never got Ric Flair. When I pictured a wrestler I always pictured someone like Goldberg or Lesnar. But also Bret, Orton, Benoit, Angle who didn't exactly have that intimidating physique but had the in-ring talent. Even with guys like Mysterio and the cruiserweights they had at WCW, I got it. They were about something. But I struggled to understand the hype and aura around Flair. He always seemed like someone who never really moved out of the 70s. Those nasty blade-jobs when he returned to WWE didn't make him anymore interesting.

I agree with you on most stuff. But I don't think I will ever be tuning in again. CM Punk was really the only reason I was watching last time. When he was wasted at the expense of part-timers I stopped watching and from what I understand he himself left soon afterwards aswell. But even when I google the stuff it befuddles me what the WWE has become. I mean you have jobbers like Jinder Mahal (who were jobbers because they couldn't wrestle in the first place) being pumped up on steroids and being made champion so WWE can tap into the Indian market. Most of the guys don't even look like wrestlers and reading their names makes me want to not even know what their gimmicks are. WWE going to Saudi Arabia which just made me laugh my *** off. I can't even get invested in the new guys Roman, Rollins, Bray Wyatt, Daniel Bryan. Roman I think isn't accepted by the fans either. Whereas, Bryan who is a seasoned performer I guess by now is literally a poor man's Benoit, and massively over-hyped.

Flair put the business on the map, there's reason why he recieved the longest standing ovation at the HOF and has universal praise from experts and his peers with many citing him as their inspiration/idol to lace a pair of boots including someone like Shawn Michaels, Flair has always been Flair in that he lives his gimmick because he has always been that way as a person from day one but it's insulting to gauge his career past his peak in the 2000s when he was in his 50s but even then had some memorable encounters with the likes of Edge, Undertaker and HBK especially at WM 24 in his retirement match, the 30 for 30 special by ESPN captures his impact very well and in terms of his in-ring quality you can watch the Steamboat trilogy and Jim Crockett promotions for the promos and as far as his look his look is concerned he was a lot bigger and more muscle bound as the NWA's world champion, Goldberg hurt everyone he worked with and ended Bret's career, he isn't fit to carry Flair's jockstrap; Lesnar is a freak of nature and a performer I do respect, neither will ever surpass Flair's achievements. In terms of your views on the modern product I don't expect a rounded account when you don't follow it but the set up now is a lot more constrained and artificial but in between the talent isn't that bad, however booking has been an issue and the number of writers in the creative team, Cena is the only guy who they invested in heavily
 
Flair put the business on the map, there's reason why he recieved the longest standing ovation at the HOF and has universal praise from experts and his peers with many citing him as their inspiration/idol to lace a pair of boots including someone like Shawn Michaels, Flair has always been Flair in that he lives his gimmick because he has always been that way as a person from day one but it's insulting to gauge his career past his peak in the 2000s when he was in his 50s but even then had some memorable encounters with the likes of Edge, Undertaker and HBK especially at WM 24 in his retirement match, the 30 for 30 special by ESPN captures his impact very well and in terms of his in-ring quality you can watch the Steamboat trilogy and Jim Crockett promotions for the promos and as far as his look his look is concerned he was a lot bigger and more muscle bound as the NWA's world champion, Goldberg hurt everyone he worked with and ended Bret's career, he isn't fit to carry Flair's jockstrap; Lesnar is a freak of nature and a performer I do respect, neither will ever surpass Flair's achievements. In terms of your views on the modern product I don't expect a rounded account when you don't follow it but the set up now is a lot more constrained and artificial but in between the talent isn't that bad, however booking has been an issue and the number of writers in the creative team, Cena is the only guy who they invested in heavily

I'm not discounting Flair's achievements or what he did to put wrestling on the map. I am aware of all that. And while I can respect him, I don't have to like him. He had some good matches in WWE but I don't remember Flair carrying most of them. And the reason for me was always that his wrestling felt so primitive as compared to what guys like Bret, Angle, Benoit were doing, who were unquestionably the best in-ring performers of their time. For me, Flair always felt like a throwback.

I know Goldberg gets a bad rep but his gimmick was built around being dominant and beating guys before they even knew what hit 'em. Granted he wasn't the best in-ring performer but he still had a domineering presence, looked like a main-eventer and could work a good match. He can't be blamed for the fact that WCW wasted his character and that he had a very short-lived run in WWE.
 
Last edited:
There were some really good tag teams during this period:

Hardy Boys
Dudley Boys
Edge and Christian
APA (The Acolytes)
Brothers of Destruction (Kane and Undertaker)
Too Cool (Scotty 2 Hotty and Grandmaster Saxay).
 
I'm not discounting Flair's achievements or what he did to put wrestling on the map. I am aware of all that. And while I can respect him, I don't have to like him. He had some good matches in WWE but I don't remember Flair carrying most of them. And the reason for me was always that his wrestling felt so primitive as compared to what guys like Bret, Angle, Benoit were doing, who were unquestionably the best in-ring performers of their time. For me, Flair always felt like a throwback.

I know Goldberg gets a bad rep but his gimmick was built around being dominant and beating guys before they even knew what hit 'em. Granted he wasn't the best in-ring performer but he still had a domineering presence, looked like a main-eventer and could work a good match. He can't be blamed for the fact that WCW wasted his character and that he had a very short-lived run in WWE.

I agree but it still takes two to tango and to me his intensity stood out; bringing the old school realism to those high profile matches which is rarely seen but anyway all I was saying is I wouldn't use the WWE run from the 2000s as the measuring stick for what Flair was able to do in the ring and sure the likes of Angle and Benoit were young lions at their peak arguably the best at that point, I would have love to seen Bret wrestle the likes of Angle in the 2000s but it wasn't to be, he did work with Flair in 92 and the outing was pretty good although it came during a house show.

Don't get me wrong Berg had a great persona and as far as the squash matches are concerned I don't have a problem with those either or his unbeaten streak and while he shouldn't be blamed for the booking in WCW and WWE there was nothing stopping him from learning the trade properly, he had no passion for wrestling at all and a failed football player who wanted to make a quick buck but ended up ending the career of Bret and hurt majority of the guys he worked with, he had a great look, signatures and persona but I do agree with Bret's recent remarks on an interview with Austin; how can we put such a guy in the HOF when the essence of wrestling is to also protect your opponent ? but that was Goldberg, he was never going to make an effort to improve in the ring or put on a clinic; even guys like Warrior and Hogan can say they did on their resume, but what saved Goldberg was his persona, a good look and the fact that he drew big money and still is able to which is a very sad fact even though he can barely lift wrestlers up for the Jackhammer; the guy nearly killed the Undertaker for crying out loud :facepalm:
 
Even jobbers were entertaining during this period.

I remember Kai En Tai (Funaki and Taka Michinoku). Even low-key figures like Essa Rios weren't too bad.

WWE should've continued with Right to Censor a bit more. That stable had good potential.
 
Shocking nobody has mentioned the The Bushwhackers. Greatest duo wrestlers of all time.

Royal Rumble , one walked in with his groovy move and was thrown out the other side, continued his move all the way back . ATG moment of WWF imo.
 
I agree but it still takes two to tango and to me his intensity stood out; bringing the old school realism to those high profile matches which is rarely seen but anyway all I was saying is I wouldn't use the WWE run from the 2000s as the measuring stick for what Flair was able to do in the ring and sure the likes of Angle and Benoit were young lions at their peak arguably the best at that point, I would have love to seen Bret wrestle the likes of Angle in the 2000s but it wasn't to be, he did work with Flair in 92 and the outing was pretty good although it came during a house show.

Don't get me wrong Berg had a great persona and as far as the squash matches are concerned I don't have a problem with those either or his unbeaten streak and while he shouldn't be blamed for the booking in WCW and WWE there was nothing stopping him from learning the trade properly, he had no passion for wrestling at all and a failed football player who wanted to make a quick buck but ended up ending the career of Bret and hurt majority of the guys he worked with, he had a great look, signatures and persona but I do agree with Bret's recent remarks on an interview with Austin; how can we put such a guy in the HOF when the essence of wrestling is to also protect your opponent ? but that was Goldberg, he was never going to make an effort to improve in the ring or put on a clinic; even guys like Warrior and Hogan can say they did on their resume, but what saved Goldberg was his persona, a good look and the fact that he drew big money and still is able to which is a very sad fact even though he can barely lift wrestlers up for the Jackhammer; the guy nearly killed the Undertaker for crying out loud :facepalm:

I see your point. It definitely diminishes his legacy as a performer. And we are in agreement on the fact that Goldberg...and Lesnar were both in it for the money. The only reason they are even back is the money. And there has to be a difference between guys who love wrestling and are passionate about it, and those who are in it just because of the cash or the fact that other things didn't work out.

the guy nearly killed the Undertaker for crying out loud :facepalm:

When did this happen?
 
Last edited:
I see your point. It definitely diminishes his legacy as a performer. And we are in agreement on the fact that Goldberg...and Lesnar were both in it for the money. The only reason they are even back is the money. And there has to be a difference between guys who love wrestling and are passionate about it, and those who are in it just because of the cash or the fact that other things didn't work out.

the guy nearly killed the Undertaker for crying out loud :facepalm:

When did this happen?

Am not sure about Lesnar, part of still feels that he does care; because while he is the smartest man in sports and comabt sports entertainment having outsmarted both Vince and Dana, I feel just because he knows his value it shouldn't take away from his in-ring performances and old school adherence to kayfabe, did you watch the rumble this year ? he put in one of the best performances ever, he sells like a million dollars and doesn't take stupid bumps or do too much unless he needs to, he use to ride with Kane and Taker; learned a great deal from those to and can be very respectful in the ring if you earn his respect to. And he's still around and I feel he is criminally under rated, doesn't get enough cred; to me he is a bonafide all time great that will be appreciated more when he retires.

And during the Saudi Arabia show, did you know the sheikhs had asked for the likes of Rock, Austin and Yokozuna not knowing he had passed away a long time ago lol and that match between Berg and Taker honestly you watch the final 1/4 and it will make you cringe, Berg ran into the post too hard concussing himself, was already gassed before the match and during it out on his feet, went for a jack hammer which ended up being something in between a brain buster and suplex among other uncompatible looking spots, Taker at least learned from that is now working the younger blokes who are more sound in the ring, part of me does have a little sympathy for Goldberg because he was never trained properly to begin with, you're never going to learn much in the 'WCW Power-Plant' and he seems like a good family person.

Wrestlemanai is scheduled to take place today and Sunday in an empty arena, the main-event would have been Lesnar v Drew think that will still be the final match on Sunday, Drew's comeback story is inspiring and WWE have booked him very well to, this piece from BT Sports is an outstanding ad to hype him:

 
My favourites from when I started watching kept changing, let's see if I can remember them all and the sequence.

1. Macho man
2. Ultimate warrior
3. Brett Hart
4. British bulldog
5. The Rock
6. Jeff hardy
7. Hulk hogan
8. Brock Lesnar
9. Goldberg
10. Scott Steiner
 
I'd say the AE era got me into the product when I was younger but since then have watched plenty of archive footage and I have deep admiration for the territory era when the Nature Boy Ric Flair put the industry on the map and had countless classics wit and the likes of Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Harley Race and Sting; NWA's Jim Crocket promotions made tweaks to the studio style of wrestling which was pioneered by Cow Boy Bill Watt's, in many ways it gave inspiration to shows such as RAW and Smackdown we have today given the episodic format which utilised strong observance of kayfabe (protecting your character, storyline and the business), an emphasis on developing your persona through concise/emphatic promos and a simplified approach to booking which was designed to get wrestlers over by having the heels build heat; today you see too many 50/50 matches now it may make sense if it's the blow off but nobody gets over in those type of scenarios. I also admire how seriously they took their art, there was no prancing around; hey even back then their were whispers surrounding the nature of how things actually worked but the promoter and his talents would always take special measures by staying in character at all times, the heels and faces would not be seen in public and would also be kept in separate locker rooms during feuds, heck at one point in Mid-South a newspaper speculated how Jake Roberts would be working his final match for the territory and its custom to do the 'job' on the way out, Bill made sure he went over that night lol Additionally, if you got into a real fight; you'd need to make sure you won because you weren't going to find yourself in employment when it came your career as a wrestler. But all in all, the emphatic promos and raw passion combined with excellent in-ring performances which we saw on PPV where it made sense for performers to go all out and put those behinds on seats was the spark which helped take the businesses popularity to another level in NA and beyond.

Vince did a tremendous job to create a monopoly by defeating majority of the territories and while Ric Flair was a big coup for him the legends heart was always with WCW who he left due to creative differences; at that point he was still a major draw and for him to go over in the 1992 Royal Rumble with the WWF peaking at the height of the golden era of wrestling, it finally did the greatest ever justice and was the culmination of a legendary pro wrestling career which was never to be equalled, with a tear in Ric's eye as he said; it was the greatest moment of his life and for many of the true fans of the industry it genuinely was, one of the good guys finally went over when we always new he was vastly superior to the likes of Hulk Hogan.

The golden era itself which was spearheaded by the WWF did have its wacky moments and was a little goofy but it did showcase some excellent characters which included Hogan, Savage, Steamboat, Piper, Bret and the Ultimate Warrior; from time to time they did have some excellent feuds which led to great pay offs in the ring; Andre/Hogan gave a memorable moment, Savage/Flair were ahead of their time in terms of the 50/50 style they showcased but also displaying their excellent technical pedigree, Warrior/Hogan was rare in how you had two very popular faces lock horns and they delivered in the ring as well and one of my favourites, the Savage/Warrior retirement match after an excellent in-ring encounter led to one of the greatest moments in the history of wrestling and closed a 6 year on/off screen storyline arc involving Savage and Miss Elizabeth,

The steroid scandal and involvement of Ted Turner in the wrestling business would change everything, WWF would see new lows in terms of their popularity and revenues but turned away from the bigger dudes by giving the likes of HBK and Bret the Torch to carry the main-event picture, and they were both popular in their own right because they kept the ship afloat despite WCW being the more edgy product which was in tune with popular culture, people didn't want to the gobbledy gooker or the canadian mountie, they wanted to see dark and gritty characters who blurred the lines between good and bad, this is why Undertaker would soon turn into a face and people had still been cheering Austin before his full blown face turn in arguably one of the greatest matches in history at WM 13 with Bret. The new generation would still put good in the table and what ultimately saved the company was their extreme levels of professionalism while WCW just self-destructed, they had the NWO book their shows, ruined Goldberg and even the aura of Sting / Ric Flair; it all went down hill after Starcade 1997 and from a business POV they didn't seem to understand that you make fans pay to see Hogan / Goldberg but Russo had other ideas when it came to his philosophy, now Vince did use some of his ideas during the 90s but he filtered most of them, you give that man all creative freedom and you're going to suffer. Austin blew up and the rest was history, when I look back the monday night wars was the peak in wrestlings popularity but at the same time while it created great characters it relived heavily on car crash TV and memorable moments. I personally feel the RA era had the best combination of in-ring work and cohesive story telling as far as the WWF/E was concerned.

They did botch the invasion angle but during that time I'd say the AE era had not ended and WWF found themselves in a tricky spot where they had acquired WCW but not the guaranteed contracts of the likes of NWO and Goldberg, post WM 17 we were in purgatory but the return of HBK and emergence of Brock Lesnar helped carve out long term booking plans and build on the brand split idea with so much talent in the company The RA era was led at the of the card by HBK and The Undertaker while we saw the company take a chance with emerging talent such as Batista, Edge, Cena, Orton and Lesnar who for the most part repaid the faith/investment, with Heyman on SD the promotion thrived creatively and financially with some truly thrilling performances from Eddie, Angle, Mysterio, Cena and the Undertaker while RAW was led by HBK, Evolution and supported by Booker T, RVD and Kane.

When Cena was drafted to RAW the company was not testing waters with the PG ethos at the time, they were still TV-14 people forget that; he had outlived his gimmick as the Rapper and lets be honest it's an upper-mid card level persona, he had a tremendous ability on the mic even though he was green as a wrestler and that truly resonated with the younger audience, so Vince protected him heavily but in between the likes of Edge did get to shine although RVD just couldn't help himself even after the company gave him his shot despite it being perhaps 4 years too late. I'd say it wasn't fun at the top of the card to see John go over all the time, but the feuds and in-ring action was still compelling and on the SD world Rey Mysterio, Kurt Angle, Batista and the Undertaker had excellent encounters when it came to the WHC picture.

What COMPLETELY transformed the business of pro wrestling was CHRIS BENOIT and not John Cena, Benoit turned the industry on his entire head, after his heinous acts and the bad press wrestling recieved given how his mental injuries and steroid abuse were emphasised the WWE were forced to go PG, blood was banned, chair shots to the head were not allowed and the company introduced a wellness policy; while creatively this period may not have been enthralling as it hinders what stars were able to do in terms of their promos as these were then scripted heavily and also in the ring; it protected the wrestlers from themselves and improved their working rights, these guys are on the road 365 days a year and there's no off season for them, we only see the live shows but beyond that there are non televised events, the schedule combined with the brutal travel just takes its toll. And who is better then Cena to be that guy to carry them through this phase ? and as far as his critics were concerns he would inevitably silence those who would chant that he couldn't wrestle, he wasn't gifted athletically but his work ethic and drive to improve resulted in a significant improvement from the in-ring performances to the point where fans began to clamour for a heel turn. But the PG era still gave us the memorable summer of Punk and arguably the greatest match in history between Taker and HBK and WM 25.

The PG era would take a turn as the WWE would change the tone from a lighter one to slightly more edgier product which is primarily built on in-ring work and athleticism, the return of Lesnar boosted their legitimacy to in a massive way as we saw him return to an old-school style of working in the ring after he dethroned Taker and only Lesnar truly would be able to have such success as a special attraction in the company. There may not be as much emphasis on ring psychology now and this isn't more evident if you watch anything from Japan where wrestlers just trade moves and go 50/50 against the same opponents over and over again, but then they get it right in NA no one does it better then Vince; stars such as AJ Styles, Roman Reigns and Bray Wyatt are no mugs but remember they also work in a very constrained and heavily scripted set-up. But more me I still follow it as outside all the things I may not necessarily be in favour of if there's one good segment or a specific match I enjoy it's worth it, The Fiend Bray Wyatt would do well in any era on the mic, AJ Styles pound for pound is an outstanding in-ring talent, people complain about the lot being too small / a bunch of cruserweights but look no further then Roman Reigns who sells extremely well and is a tremendous brawler and then there's NXT who utilise a more independent style of working if that floats your boat but also used as WWE's very own development territory. With anything you reserve judgement if spend a significant time watching the product and while I think I may never see another HBK in his prime or a persona like Taker, the likes of AJ Styles, Reigns, Bryan and Wyatt can still suspend that disbelief of old but here's hoping creatively WWE show the vision to relax some of their restrictions and focus more on giving talent chances as they did when the competition came knocking.

That summer of punk was completely ruined by hhh.
 
I watched VICE's Dark Side of the Ring episode on Jimmy Snuka this morning.

Jimmy Snuka is a goddamn murderer and McMahon obviously paid the Allentown Police Department off. Who believes Snuka's cock and bull story that his girlfriend Nancy Argentino slipped on the sidewalk returning from a bathroom stop and died ? Especially after Snuka was arrested for domestic violence months earlier ?

Both the Allentown cop and Tonga Kid were so obviously full of crap. Tonga Kid inadvertently destroyed Snuka's alibi by admitting he was in the car with Snuka and Argentino, and never saw the girl get out of the car for a bathroom stop, and then tried to shuffle out of the interview.
 
Where has the legendary prowrestling thread gone? @mods
@shaz619 WWE hasn't been this hot in years. Randy Orton is back. And CM Punk somehow too.

You know well how much I wasn't THAT big of a punk fan, but man, him going to WWE is insane considering the stuff that has happened since brawl out. I am just waiting for his promos where he can legit chew out AEW. Apart from that, soooo many great feuds can literally happen now. CM Punk vs Roman, Punk vs AJ, Punk vs Drew, Punk vs Rollins, Punk vs Cody, Punk vs Cody, Punk vs Balor, Punk vs KO etc etc I know there's a good chance he may not last long in WWE either, but man WWE's management is much more professional in handling wrestlers than AEW's clique marks. And for some reason, Punk didn't look this fresh throughout his AEW run. He actually looked fresh in SS.

Apart from that, my man RANDALL KEITH ORTON, man how much did i miss that guy. The guy is literally the perfect pro wrestler ever with one of the most consistent and best characters in pro wrestling history ever.
Randy vs Roman was slated to happen before he got injured, but hopefully will happen now.
Then there's Randy vs Cody feud, Randy vs Drew (can watch the two just having matches all the time)

And then there's this one of the most underrated yet best character arcs happening with Drew McIntyre. The guy's frustrations are all genuine. It's one heel turn that is actually making all the sense and you actually feel sympathy for him. And it does look like he's not really in there for JD but for his own. Then there's impending implosion with Priest there as well.

Man this Mania season should be a banger.
 
I was a huge fan of WWE, even back when it was WWF. However, later, I realized it's just entertainment and scripted. Since then, I haven't watched or followed it.
 
Where has the legendary prowrestling thread gone? @mods
@shaz619 WWE hasn't been this hot in years. Randy Orton is back. And CM Punk somehow too.

You know well how much I wasn't THAT big of a punk fan, but man, him going to WWE is insane considering the stuff that has happened since brawl out. I am just waiting for his promos where he can legit chew out AEW. Apart from that, soooo many great feuds can literally happen now. CM Punk vs Roman, Punk vs AJ, Punk vs Drew, Punk vs Rollins, Punk vs Cody, Punk vs Cody, Punk vs Balor, Punk vs KO etc etc I know there's a good chance he may not last long in WWE either, but man WWE's management is much more professional in handling wrestlers than AEW's clique marks. And for some reason, Punk didn't look this fresh throughout his AEW run. He actually looked fresh in SS.

Apart from that, my man RANDALL KEITH ORTON, man how much did i miss that guy. The guy is literally the perfect pro wrestler ever with one of the most consistent and best characters in pro wrestling history ever.
Randy vs Roman was slated to happen before he got injured, but hopefully will happen now.
Then there's Randy vs Cody feud, Randy vs Drew (can watch the two just having matches all the time)

And then there's this one of the most underrated yet best character arcs happening with Drew McIntyre. The guy's frustrations are all genuine. It's one heel turn that is actually making all the sense and you actually feel sympathy for him. And it does look like he's not really in there for JD but for his own. Then there's impending implosion with Priest there as well.

Man this Mania season should be a banger.
Well to make long story short, Punk has been brought to promote new stars and make guys like Cody & Reigns look more invincible. Reigns vs Punk has always been on the card and it shall result in Reigns victory. I personally believe Punk won't be the one to end reigns charismatic title reign this mania season. It may be someone else like Cody or a new guy from roaster.
 
I was a massive WWE fan in 2000's.

Watched WWE regularly from 2000 till 2009 (approximately). After that, I lost interest.

My favorite wrestler of all time is The Rock.

Modern day wrestling sucks.
 
Well to make long story short, Punk has been brought to promote new stars and make guys like Cody & Reigns look more invincible. Reigns vs Punk has always been on the card and it shall result in Reigns victory. I personally believe Punk won't be the one to end reigns charismatic title reign this mania season. It may be someone else like Cody or a new guy from roaster.
Nah Punk has been brought in to increase weekly ratings and live show sales. Reigns and Brock are their biggest stars and both are part timers. Randy is going to be a part timer as well now probably. Seth just doesn't draw. The biggest regular draw they actually have is Cody who is in the beginning stages of being made the face of WWE. He will be undoubtedly be the one to take the title off Roman. WWE for some time has been a PPV show only. The ratings for weekly shows have down for years. They need proper draws to invest some interest there where they have deals with the networks.

Cody for sure is the guy they have unofficially heralded as the new John Cena and his era will take off at Mania next year probs.
 
I was a massive WWE fan in 2000's.

Watched WWE regularly from 2000 till 2009 (approximately). After that, I lost interest.

My favorite wrestler of all time is The Rock.

Modern day wrestling sucks.
Me too. Dwayne's my all time favorite as well.
Attitude Era was a different beast altogether (plus we were younger and more receptive to it). AE is never coming back.

But currently WWE is at its highest point (potentially and quality wise) than it has been for over a decade. And that's what excites me. I stopped watching wrestling in 2006, then sporadically watched it around 2008 and then 2011 and only restarted properly from late 2015 early 2016. It took me time to really enjoy modern wrestling as an adult but I am actually fine with it. I dislike the extreme indie style or forced hardcore wrestling. Well written stories, character development and well told and well wrestled matches are what I follow pro wrestling for.
 
Me too. Dwayne's my all time favorite as well.
Attitude Era was a different beast altogether (plus we were younger and more receptive to it). AE is never coming back.

But currently WWE is at its highest point (potentially and quality wise) than it has been for over a decade. And that's what excites me. I stopped watching wrestling in 2006, then sporadically watched it around 2008 and then 2011 and only restarted properly from late 2015 early 2016. It took me time to really enjoy modern wrestling as an adult but I am actually fine with it. I dislike the extreme indie style or forced hardcore wrestling. Well written stories, character development and well told and well wrestled matches are what I follow pro wrestling for.

I agree with the bolded part.

Current wrestling (both AEW and WWE) seems way too Jeff Hardy-ish.

I prefer a good story buildup like it used to be back in the 90's and 2000's.

Also, another thing that is a turnoff for me is the excessive "woke" mentality. Modern day wrestling has been infected by it.
 
I disagree to the extent that wwe is at its highest point at the moment. It hit the top ceiling few years back in 2017 when brock & goldberg were locking horns together. And the guys like reigns, randy & braun were fighting regularly but now it has lost that spark. May be wwe can make some good twitches with the new punk story line.
Me too. Dwayne's my all time favorite as well.
Attitude Era was a different beast altogether (plus we were younger and more receptive to it). AE is never coming back.

But currently WWE is at its highest point (potentially and quality wise) than it has been for over a decade. And that's what excites me. I stopped watching wrestling in 2006, then sporadically watched it around 2008 and then 2011 and only restarted properly from late 2015 early 2016. It took me time to really enjoy modern wrestling as an adult but I am actually fine with it. I dislike the extreme indie style or forced hardcore wrestling. Well written stories, character development and well told and well wrestled matches are what I follow pro wrestling for.
 
I agree with the bolded part.

Current wrestling (both AEW and WWE) seem way too Jeff Hardy-ish.

I prefer a good story buildup like it used to be back in the 90's and 2000's.
No. There's only one Jeff Hardy and he is sadly past his prime.

WWE has been doing more storyline driven wrestling in last one year or so. The only wrestling for the sake of wrestling usually involves Seth Rollins and Gunther even though Gunther has been doing it perfectly. Roman's storylines are well told. Drew's recent character arc has been refreshing. Sami Zayn has been extremely good for a year. AEW i don't really follow that much tbh as it doesn't feature too much story driven wrestling. Edge is a master of that so hopefully he will probably tell a few good stories and matches in AEW. Will follow that a bit. Apart from that, MJF and Bryan are the only two good things about AEW. Bryan's matches are always fantastic and MJF has been developing quickly.
 
I disagree to the extent that wwe is at its highest point at the moment. It hit the top ceiling few years back in 2017 when brock & goldberg were locking horns together. And the guys like reigns, randy & braun were fighting regularly but now it has lost that spark. May be wwe can make some good twitches with the new punk story line.
Not really, 2017 was probably the most boring year of WWE. The return of Goldberg was fun but the whole 2 years were awful apart from the KO-Jericho storyline and AJ's stuff. They just kept building and building Roman up and it never really happened.
 
Back
Top