Hitman
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 17,082
-
Contact the PP Team
Apple looking to India, not China, to produce iPhones and more: Report
- Thread starter Hitman
- Start date
JaDed
Test Star
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Runs
- 38,533
I don’t know why can’t we wait before its finalized, Tesla left India for Indonesia as well.
cricketjoshila
Test Captain
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
- Runs
- 47,963
- Post of the Week
- 1
Because India refused Tesla's demands of importing fully made cars with duty cuts.
iPhone is already manufactured in India at multiple locations. What i don't trust is the commie trade and labour unions, they seem to create issues everytime a company shifts production from China to India.
Hitman
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 17,082
That's right. India refused Tesla's demand relating to duty cuts of imported cars.
Major
Test Star
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2013
- Runs
- 36,018
- Post of the Week
- 7
You dont want the basic wage increase for the poor labourer?
Hextro
Local Club Star
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2022
- Runs
- 1,803
This was bound to happen at some point. China's population's living standards have risen drastically in the last decade, China's workforce is moving from the Primary and Secondary sectors to the Tertiary sector.
It's only natural for Apple to move to a country whose economy isn't as advanced and thus doesn't demand high wages. This is a smart business decision for Apple because it will help them reduce costs, let's see how it works out for them in the long run.
It's only natural for Apple to move to a country whose economy isn't as advanced and thus doesn't demand high wages. This is a smart business decision for Apple because it will help them reduce costs, let's see how it works out for them in the long run.
Hextro
Local Club Star
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2022
- Runs
- 1,803
Just to add to this, I'm sure Apple will move their production to other 3rd world countries as well.
Hitman
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 17,082
Last I heard Samsung phones were ridiculously expensive in Pakistan because of import duties? On a serious note, what foreign brand of smartphones have manufacturing plants in Pakistan? I really don't know.
cricketjoshila
Test Captain
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
- Runs
- 47,963
- Post of the Week
- 1
Its not about any good for the workers, its about disrupting the work for political and other gains.
Major
Test Star
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2013
- Runs
- 36,018
- Post of the Week
- 7
So you think labour unions dong improve the working conditions and pay conditions of the workers?
Hextro
Local Club Star
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2022
- Runs
- 1,803
This is going a bit off topic since the topic is about Apple but oh well.
Pakistan put import duties on imported phones in order to force phone companies to set up assembly plants in Pakistan, that strategy has paid divides a year or two after its inception.
"KARACHI: One of the world’s largest manufacturers of mobile phones, Samsung, has finally started production in Pakistan, lifting hopes of the authorities and the industry that this would cut down the import bill of the country in the months to come."
https://www.dawn.com/news/1661220
Local manufactured Mobile phones percentage has touched 91.1% in April 2022.
Local manufacturing: 2.5 million
Imported: 0.25 million
Hitman
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 17,082
India uses the same strategy. But you didn't answer my question. How many foreign brands manufacture their smartphones in Pakistan?
Hitman
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 17,082
Sorry, couldn't edit my post as time ran out.
India uses the same strategy. Samsung has started production in Pakistan? Anyways, Samsung manufactures 33% of it's overall worldwide production of all of it's products in India. I wonder what took Samsung so long to start production in Pakistan. Do they manufacture their flagship phones in Pakistan as well?
What other foreign brands manufacture their smartphones in Pakistan?
cricketjoshila
Test Captain
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
- Runs
- 47,963
- Post of the Week
- 1
Some do. But the leftist ones hardly do anything good. They disrupt. Infact they are more interested in furthering chinese interests than Indian.
Major
Test Star
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2013
- Runs
- 36,018
- Post of the Week
- 7
If wages are properly adjusted why is that a harm? Why should you lower your own standards to satisfy others
Varun
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
- Runs
- 26,111
- Post of the Week
- 1
Over the last 30 years China has done a lot of manufacturing and India has done a lot of services.
Both are now looking to diversify this basket.
Both are now looking to diversify this basket.
Hextro
Local Club Star
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2022
- Runs
- 1,803
Buddy, I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't care enough about phone manufacturing to look up every individual phone company in Pakistan that manufactures smartphones locally.
This stat tells us everything we need to know about phone manufacturing in Pakistan.
Import of phones:
2020 - 24.51 million, 2021 - 10.26 million
Local manufacturing:
2020 - 13.05 million, 2021 - 24.66 million
Lastly, the reason it took so long for companies to start manufacturing phones in Pakistan was because PPP and PMLN are incompetent.
cricketjoshila
Test Captain
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
- Runs
- 47,963
- Post of the Week
- 1
There are a number of trade and labour unions in India, larger than the leftist ones, yet the only ones involved in disruption and vandalism are leftist ones.
They don't do anything of value, rather work to drive away companies.
JaDed
Test Star
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Runs
- 38,533
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technol...g-narrows-tech-gap-between-india-china-report
Apple's iPhone 14 manufacturing narrows tech gap between India, China: report
India has been promoting itself as an alternative for iPhone production as China deals with COVID-19 lockdowns and U.S. sanctions
———-
Even thought its too late but I guess we still need jobs and a vision.
Apple's iPhone 14 manufacturing narrows tech gap between India, China: report
India has been promoting itself as an alternative for iPhone production as China deals with COVID-19 lockdowns and U.S. sanctions
———-
Even thought its too late but I guess we still need jobs and a vision.
India must do everything to have these big tech companies establish themselves in India. India needs jobs. Even if they are low end. This is the only way to lift Poor Indians in the North Indian states out of poverty. They are abundant with man power. At least they can make a decent wage.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,932
Apple supplier Foxconn has apologised for a "technical error" in its payment systems, a day after its iPhone factory in China was rocked by angry protests.
Videos had showed hundreds of workers marching at the world's biggest iPhone factory in the city of Zhengzhou, with complaints over Covid restrictions and claims of overdue pay.
Those livestreaming the protests said workers were beaten by police.
One Foxconn worker told the BBC that the situation had since been resolved.
Last month, rising Covid cases saw the factory locked down, prompting some workers to break out and go home. The company then recruited new workers with the promise of generous bonuses.
But one worker said these contracts were changed so they "could not get the subsidy promised", adding that they were quarantined without food.
On Thursday, Foxconn released a statement saying a "technical error occurred during the onboarding process", adding that the pay of new recruits was "the same as agreed [in the] official recruitment posters".
The firm said they were in constant communication with the affected employees about the the pay and bonuses and was doing its best "to actively solve the concerns and reasonable demands of employees".
A worker also told the BBC on Thursday that he had since received 8,000 yuan ($1120; £926) and was set to receive another 2,000 yuan. He added that there were no more protesters and that he and his colleague would return to the Foxconn factory.
The Zhengzhou plant employs more than 200,000 people to make Apple Inc devices including the iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max.
Separately on Thursday, authorities ordered the city to get into lockdown, saying they would not be able to leave the area unless they had a negative Covid test - affecting more than six million people in the city.
It comes as China has recorded a new Covid case peak since the pandemic began, with the country seeing a wave of outbreaks with several major cities like Beijing and Guangzhou affected.
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has called on China to recalibrate its zero-Covid strategy as its economic growth shrinks.
The world's second largest economy has seen its gross domestic product (GDP) fall by 2.6% in the three months to the end of June from the previous quarter.
"Although the zero-COVID strategy has become nimbler over time, the combination of more contagious COVID variants and persistent gaps in vaccinations have led to the need for more frequent lockdowns, weighing on consumption and private investment, including in housing," according to an IMF annual report on China.
The financial organisation also called for Beijing to increase its vaccinations and offer relief for the country's property sector crisis.
However, some analysts believe the IMF's guidance won't convince China to change its policies.
"Given that China is unlikely to be going to the IMF for help, it doesn't really matter whether they pay attention to this statement or not, according to the Global Chief Economist of The Economist Intelligence Unit Simon Baptist. "For countries that might want to go to the IMF for support, then they will have more pressure to take action as a result. "
BBC
Videos had showed hundreds of workers marching at the world's biggest iPhone factory in the city of Zhengzhou, with complaints over Covid restrictions and claims of overdue pay.
Those livestreaming the protests said workers were beaten by police.
One Foxconn worker told the BBC that the situation had since been resolved.
Last month, rising Covid cases saw the factory locked down, prompting some workers to break out and go home. The company then recruited new workers with the promise of generous bonuses.
But one worker said these contracts were changed so they "could not get the subsidy promised", adding that they were quarantined without food.
On Thursday, Foxconn released a statement saying a "technical error occurred during the onboarding process", adding that the pay of new recruits was "the same as agreed [in the] official recruitment posters".
The firm said they were in constant communication with the affected employees about the the pay and bonuses and was doing its best "to actively solve the concerns and reasonable demands of employees".
A worker also told the BBC on Thursday that he had since received 8,000 yuan ($1120; £926) and was set to receive another 2,000 yuan. He added that there were no more protesters and that he and his colleague would return to the Foxconn factory.
The Zhengzhou plant employs more than 200,000 people to make Apple Inc devices including the iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max.
Separately on Thursday, authorities ordered the city to get into lockdown, saying they would not be able to leave the area unless they had a negative Covid test - affecting more than six million people in the city.
It comes as China has recorded a new Covid case peak since the pandemic began, with the country seeing a wave of outbreaks with several major cities like Beijing and Guangzhou affected.
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has called on China to recalibrate its zero-Covid strategy as its economic growth shrinks.
The world's second largest economy has seen its gross domestic product (GDP) fall by 2.6% in the three months to the end of June from the previous quarter.
"Although the zero-COVID strategy has become nimbler over time, the combination of more contagious COVID variants and persistent gaps in vaccinations have led to the need for more frequent lockdowns, weighing on consumption and private investment, including in housing," according to an IMF annual report on China.
The financial organisation also called for Beijing to increase its vaccinations and offer relief for the country's property sector crisis.
However, some analysts believe the IMF's guidance won't convince China to change its policies.
"Given that China is unlikely to be going to the IMF for help, it doesn't really matter whether they pay attention to this statement or not, according to the Global Chief Economist of The Economist Intelligence Unit Simon Baptist. "For countries that might want to go to the IMF for support, then they will have more pressure to take action as a result. "
BBC
daytrader
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2015
- Runs
- 10,850
- Post of the Week
- 1
iPhone Maker Foxconn Plans $700 Million Plant Near Bengaluru: Report
The investment is one of Foxconn's biggest single outlays to date in India and underscores how China's at risk of losing its status as the world's largest producer of consumer electronics.
iPhone Maker Foxconn Plans $700 Million Plant Near Bengaluru: Report
The factory may also assemble Apple handsets. (Representational)
Apple Inc. partner Foxconn Technology Group plans to invest about $700 million on a new plant in India to ramp up local production, people familiar with the matter said, underscoring an accelerating shift of manufacturing away from China as Washington-Beijing tensions grow.
The Taiwanese company, also known for its flagship unit Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., plans to build the plant to make iPhone parts on a 300-acre site close to the airport in Bengaluru, according to the people who asked not to be named as the information is not public. The factory may also assemble Apple's handsets, some of the people said, and Foxconn may also use the site to produce some parts for its nascent electric vehicle business.
The investment is one of Foxconn's biggest single outlays to date in India and underscores how China's at risk of losing its status as the world's largest producer of consumer electronics. Apple and other US brands are leaning on their Chinese-based suppliers to explore alternative locations such as India and Vietnam. It's a rethink of the global supply chain that's accelerated during the pandemic and the war in Ukraine and could reshape the way global electronics are made.
...
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/iph...luru-report-3831131#pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll
The investment is one of Foxconn's biggest single outlays to date in India and underscores how China's at risk of losing its status as the world's largest producer of consumer electronics.
iPhone Maker Foxconn Plans $700 Million Plant Near Bengaluru: Report
The factory may also assemble Apple handsets. (Representational)
Apple Inc. partner Foxconn Technology Group plans to invest about $700 million on a new plant in India to ramp up local production, people familiar with the matter said, underscoring an accelerating shift of manufacturing away from China as Washington-Beijing tensions grow.
The Taiwanese company, also known for its flagship unit Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., plans to build the plant to make iPhone parts on a 300-acre site close to the airport in Bengaluru, according to the people who asked not to be named as the information is not public. The factory may also assemble Apple's handsets, some of the people said, and Foxconn may also use the site to produce some parts for its nascent electric vehicle business.
The investment is one of Foxconn's biggest single outlays to date in India and underscores how China's at risk of losing its status as the world's largest producer of consumer electronics. Apple and other US brands are leaning on their Chinese-based suppliers to explore alternative locations such as India and Vietnam. It's a rethink of the global supply chain that's accelerated during the pandemic and the war in Ukraine and could reshape the way global electronics are made.
...
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/iph...luru-report-3831131#pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Runs
- 28,718
Apple is looking towards India for their phones whereas Indians are looking towards China for their phones. 
Hitman
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 17,082
Apple says 'Hello Mumbai' at first India store launch
Link: https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-open-first-company-owned-retail-store-india-2023-04-05/
Link: https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-open-first-company-owned-retail-store-india-2023-04-05/
Hitman
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 17,082
I wish such a store would be in my city someday.
daytrader
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2015
- Runs
- 10,850
- Post of the Week
- 1
Shares in Apple have fallen for a second day in a row after reports that Chinese government workers have been banned from using iPhones.
The firm's stock market valuation has fallen by more than 6%, or almost $200bn (£160bn), in the last two days.
China is the technology giant's third-largest market, accounting for 18% of its total revenue last year.
It is also where most of Apple's products are manufactured by its biggest supplier Foxconn.
The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday that Beijing had ordered central government agency officials to not bring iPhones into the office or use them for work.
The following day, Bloomberg News reported that the ban may also be imposed on workers at state-owned companies and government-backed agencies.
The reports came ahead of the launch of the iPhone 15, which is expected to take place on 12 September.
There has been no official statement from the Chinese government in response to the reports.
The firm's stock market valuation has fallen by more than 6%, or almost $200bn (£160bn), in the last two days.
China is the technology giant's third-largest market, accounting for 18% of its total revenue last year.
It is also where most of Apple's products are manufactured by its biggest supplier Foxconn.
The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday that Beijing had ordered central government agency officials to not bring iPhones into the office or use them for work.
The following day, Bloomberg News reported that the ban may also be imposed on workers at state-owned companies and government-backed agencies.
The reports came ahead of the launch of the iPhone 15, which is expected to take place on 12 September.
There has been no official statement from the Chinese government in response to the reports.
Apple shares slide after China government iPhone ban reports
The technology giant's stock market valuation has fallen by almost $200bn in the last two days.
www.bbc.com
FearlessRoar
T20I Star
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2023
- Runs
- 30,521
As some foreign media continue to speculate that Apple may face risks in China, the "Global Times" observed long queues of consumers at one of Apple's stores in Beijing CBD on Friday for the iPhone15 pick-up. This demonstrates Apple enjoys good business environment in the China.
Attachments
FearlessRoar
T20I Star
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2023
- Runs
- 30,521
Apple store in Hangzhou right now is mad busy. Yes, many Chinese folks prefer Huawei, but the Chinese market is big enough for competitors too. Businesses in China are booming across a rainbow of brands.
Hitman
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 17,082
I hope more Apple stores are opened throughout the country in the upcoming years.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
Bharat can play Apple diplomacy in future by delaying shipments of new iPhones to non friendly countries like Canada. Hit them where it hurts the most.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2023
- Runs
- 21,224
Apple alert: India opposition says government tried to hack phones
Some Indian opposition leaders have accused the government of trying to hack into their phones after receiving warning messages from Apple.
Apple's alert said it believed the recipient was "being targeted by state-sponsored attackers".
It did not specify who the attackers could be.
When contacted by the BBC, Apple said that it did not attribute the threat notifications to any specific state-sponsored organisation.
Federal ministers dismissed the allegations, with one calling it "destructive politics".
But he added that the government would "investigate to get to the bottom of these notifications".
So far, around a dozen opposition politicians have confirmed that they got the message from Apple. The list has MPs including Shashi Tharoor and KC Venugopal from the Congress party, Mahua Moitra from the Trinamool Congress and Priyanka Chaturvedi from the Shiv Sena UBT.
Congress leader Rahul Gandhi also said that several people who worked in his office got the alert.
"We are not scared. You can do as much [phone] tapping as you want, I don't care. If you want to take my phone, I will give it to you," Mr Gandhi said at a press conference.
Some journalists - including Siddharth Varadarajan, a founding editor of news website The Wire - said they received the message too.
Federal information technology minister Ashwini Vaishnaw posted on X (formerly Twitter) that the government has asked Apple to join its investigation "with real, accurate information on the alleged state sponsored attacks".
On its support page for users, Apple says that "state-sponsored attackers are very well-funded and sophisticated, and their attacks evolve over time", adding that they target a "very small number of specific individuals and their devices".
It also says that it can't give more details about what prompts it to issue these threat notifications as "that may help state-sponsored attackers adapt their behaviour to evade detection in the future".
Apple added: "Detecting such attacks relies on threat intelligence signals that are often imperfect and incomplete. It's possible that some Apple threat notifications may be false alarms, or that some attacks are not detected."
Technology analyst Prasanto K Roy told the BBC that companies such as Apple look for activity patterns to detect large-scale, co-ordinated malware attacks.
"Technically, it's possible to attribute it to emerging or originating from a particular country. They can also narrow it down to known state-sponsored or state agencies," he said, adding that Apple would not want to attribute it to any specific actor.
On Tuesday, Indian politicians and journalists shared screenshots on X of the message they received from Apple, with some pointing out that no member of the governing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) had confirmed receiving the notification yet.
"Funny that only opposition got the memo of surveillance, even the algorithm was selective in its choice!" Ms Chaturvedi wrote on X.
But later in the day, BJP minister Rajeev Chandrasekhar said that his colleague Piyush Goyal had also received the alert.
"Apple has to answer a number of questions about these devices they claim are secure," he told NDTV news channel.
Aam Aadmi Party MP Raghav Chadha, who says he also got an alert, connected it to the general election due next year.
"It must also be placed within the broader attacks on the opposition who are facing relentless repression by investigatory agencies, politically motivated criminal cases and incarceration," he said.
BJP leaders said allegations of the government's involvement were "baseless" and that it was up to Apple to clarify what it meant by the notification.
"The opposition does not have any issue to take on the government and, therefore, they are resorting to making these false allegations," said Amit Malviya, who looks after the BJP's IT department.
Ms Chaturvedi released a letter addressed to Prime Minister Narendra Modi, urging him to investigate "who, within the 'state', is engaged in attempting to access my phone".
Several opposition leaders in India had earlier accused Mr Modi's government of placing them under surveillance.
BBC
Some Indian opposition leaders have accused the government of trying to hack into their phones after receiving warning messages from Apple.
Apple's alert said it believed the recipient was "being targeted by state-sponsored attackers".
It did not specify who the attackers could be.
When contacted by the BBC, Apple said that it did not attribute the threat notifications to any specific state-sponsored organisation.
Federal ministers dismissed the allegations, with one calling it "destructive politics".
But he added that the government would "investigate to get to the bottom of these notifications".
So far, around a dozen opposition politicians have confirmed that they got the message from Apple. The list has MPs including Shashi Tharoor and KC Venugopal from the Congress party, Mahua Moitra from the Trinamool Congress and Priyanka Chaturvedi from the Shiv Sena UBT.
Congress leader Rahul Gandhi also said that several people who worked in his office got the alert.
"We are not scared. You can do as much [phone] tapping as you want, I don't care. If you want to take my phone, I will give it to you," Mr Gandhi said at a press conference.
Some journalists - including Siddharth Varadarajan, a founding editor of news website The Wire - said they received the message too.
Federal information technology minister Ashwini Vaishnaw posted on X (formerly Twitter) that the government has asked Apple to join its investigation "with real, accurate information on the alleged state sponsored attacks".
On its support page for users, Apple says that "state-sponsored attackers are very well-funded and sophisticated, and their attacks evolve over time", adding that they target a "very small number of specific individuals and their devices".
It also says that it can't give more details about what prompts it to issue these threat notifications as "that may help state-sponsored attackers adapt their behaviour to evade detection in the future".
Apple added: "Detecting such attacks relies on threat intelligence signals that are often imperfect and incomplete. It's possible that some Apple threat notifications may be false alarms, or that some attacks are not detected."
Technology analyst Prasanto K Roy told the BBC that companies such as Apple look for activity patterns to detect large-scale, co-ordinated malware attacks.
"Technically, it's possible to attribute it to emerging or originating from a particular country. They can also narrow it down to known state-sponsored or state agencies," he said, adding that Apple would not want to attribute it to any specific actor.
On Tuesday, Indian politicians and journalists shared screenshots on X of the message they received from Apple, with some pointing out that no member of the governing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) had confirmed receiving the notification yet.
"Funny that only opposition got the memo of surveillance, even the algorithm was selective in its choice!" Ms Chaturvedi wrote on X.
But later in the day, BJP minister Rajeev Chandrasekhar said that his colleague Piyush Goyal had also received the alert.
"Apple has to answer a number of questions about these devices they claim are secure," he told NDTV news channel.
Aam Aadmi Party MP Raghav Chadha, who says he also got an alert, connected it to the general election due next year.
"It must also be placed within the broader attacks on the opposition who are facing relentless repression by investigatory agencies, politically motivated criminal cases and incarceration," he said.
BJP leaders said allegations of the government's involvement were "baseless" and that it was up to Apple to clarify what it meant by the notification.
"The opposition does not have any issue to take on the government and, therefore, they are resorting to making these false allegations," said Amit Malviya, who looks after the BJP's IT department.
Ms Chaturvedi released a letter addressed to Prime Minister Narendra Modi, urging him to investigate "who, within the 'state', is engaged in attempting to access my phone".
Several opposition leaders in India had earlier accused Mr Modi's government of placing them under surveillance.
BBC
FearlessRoar
T20I Star
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2023
- Runs
- 30,521
Apple has agreed to pay $490m to settle a class-action lawsuit led by the UK’s Norfolk county council
The class action alleged chief executive Tim Cook misled investors about a steep downturn in iPhone’s sales in China that culminated in a jarring revision to the company’s revenue forecast.
The Norfolk county council said its pension fund was affected by the company’s alleged actions.
A spokesperson for the Norfolk Pension Fund said: “We are proud of this recovery for investors. We are mindful that we are stewards of pensions relied upon by thousands of families and individuals.
“When and where it’s warranted, we will take decisive action to recover losses when our participants’ investments are harmed by fraud.”
The preliminary settlement filed on Friday in Oakland, California, federal court stems from a shareholder lawsuit focused on the way Apple relayed information about how iPhone models released in September 2018 were performing in China, one of the company’s biggest markets.
Cook signaled that the new iPhones were off to a good start during an investor conference call in early November 2018, according to the complaint.
That reassurance dissolved into a huge letdown on 2 January 2019 when the Cook issued a warning that Apple’s revenue for the just-completed quarter would fall $9bn below management’s forecast for the period. What’s more, virtually all of the sales drop was traced to weak demand in China.
It marked the first time Apple had cut its revenue guidance since the iPhone’s release in 2007 and triggered its stock price to plunge 10% in the next day of frenetic trading, wiping out more than $70bn in shareholder wealth.
Apple vehemently denied Cook deceived investors about the iPhone’s sales in China between early November and early January. The company maintained that stance in the settlement documents, but said it decided to make the payment after more than four years of legal wrangling to avoid an “overly burdensome, expensive, and distracting” hassle.
The settlement was reached through a mediator after US district judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers rejected Apple’s request to dismiss the case and set a 9 September trial date.
Gonzalez Rogers is now being asked to approve the settlement in a hearing scheduled for 30 April.
Thousands of shareholders who bought Apple stock in late 2018 could be eligible for a piece of the settlement, which will be distributed from of a pool that will be less than $490m after lawyers involved in the case are paid. The attorneys plan to seek up to one-fourth, or about $122m, of the settlement.
Norfolk council will receive a portion of the settlement.
The $490m payment represents less than 1% of the $97bn profit that Apple pocketed during its last fiscal year ended in September. Apple shareholders who have held on to their shares have become wealthier too. Apple’s stock price has more than quadrupled from where it stood after Cook’s China warning, creating an additional $2 tn in shareholder wealth.
www.theguardian.com
The class action alleged chief executive Tim Cook misled investors about a steep downturn in iPhone’s sales in China that culminated in a jarring revision to the company’s revenue forecast.
The Norfolk county council said its pension fund was affected by the company’s alleged actions.
A spokesperson for the Norfolk Pension Fund said: “We are proud of this recovery for investors. We are mindful that we are stewards of pensions relied upon by thousands of families and individuals.
“When and where it’s warranted, we will take decisive action to recover losses when our participants’ investments are harmed by fraud.”
The preliminary settlement filed on Friday in Oakland, California, federal court stems from a shareholder lawsuit focused on the way Apple relayed information about how iPhone models released in September 2018 were performing in China, one of the company’s biggest markets.
Cook signaled that the new iPhones were off to a good start during an investor conference call in early November 2018, according to the complaint.
That reassurance dissolved into a huge letdown on 2 January 2019 when the Cook issued a warning that Apple’s revenue for the just-completed quarter would fall $9bn below management’s forecast for the period. What’s more, virtually all of the sales drop was traced to weak demand in China.
It marked the first time Apple had cut its revenue guidance since the iPhone’s release in 2007 and triggered its stock price to plunge 10% in the next day of frenetic trading, wiping out more than $70bn in shareholder wealth.
Apple vehemently denied Cook deceived investors about the iPhone’s sales in China between early November and early January. The company maintained that stance in the settlement documents, but said it decided to make the payment after more than four years of legal wrangling to avoid an “overly burdensome, expensive, and distracting” hassle.
The settlement was reached through a mediator after US district judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers rejected Apple’s request to dismiss the case and set a 9 September trial date.
Gonzalez Rogers is now being asked to approve the settlement in a hearing scheduled for 30 April.
Thousands of shareholders who bought Apple stock in late 2018 could be eligible for a piece of the settlement, which will be distributed from of a pool that will be less than $490m after lawyers involved in the case are paid. The attorneys plan to seek up to one-fourth, or about $122m, of the settlement.
Norfolk council will receive a portion of the settlement.
The $490m payment represents less than 1% of the $97bn profit that Apple pocketed during its last fiscal year ended in September. Apple shareholders who have held on to their shares have become wealthier too. Apple’s stock price has more than quadrupled from where it stood after Cook’s China warning, creating an additional $2 tn in shareholder wealth.
Apple to pay $490m to settle claims it misled investors over sales in China
Company denied that Tim Cook deceived investors when he said iPhone sales were strong weeks before revenue warning
FearlessRoar
T20I Star
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2023
- Runs
- 30,521
Has China lost its taste for the iPhone?
FOR years, Apple dominated the market for high-end smartphones in China. No other company made a device that could compete with the iPhone’s performance – or its position as a status object in the eyes of wealthy, cosmopolitan shoppers.
But evidence is mounting that, for many in China, the iPhone no longer holds the appeal it used to.
During the first six weeks of the year, historically a peak season for Chinese shoppers to spring for a new phone, iPhone sales fell 24 per cent from a year earlier, according to Counterpoint Research, which analyses the smartphone market.
Meanwhile, sales for one of Apple’s long-standing Chinese rivals, Huawei, surged 64 per cent.
It’s a challenging time for Apple. Analysts say its latest product, a US$3,500 virtual reality headset released in February, is still years away from gaining mainstream appeal.
This month, Apple has taken two regulatory hits: a European Union fine of nearly US$2 billion for anti-competitive music streaming practices and a US government lawsuit claiming Apple violated antitrust laws.
For a decade, China has been the iPhone’s most important market after the United States and accounted for roughly 20 per cent of Apple’s sales. Now, the company’s grip on China could be dislodged by a series of factors: a slowdown in consumer spending, growing pressure from Beijing for people to shun devices made by US companies and the resurgence of national champion Huawei.
“The golden time for Apple in China is over,” said Linda Sui, a senior director at TechInsights, a market research firm.
One of the biggest reasons is the rising tension between the United States and China over trade and technology, Sui said. Without a significant lessening of geopolitical stress, it will be difficult for Apple to retain its position.
“It’s not just about consumers,” Sui said. “It’s about the big picture, the two superpowers competing with each other — that’s a fundamental thing behind the whole shift.”
Few American companies have more to lose from these heightened tensions than Apple, whose newest handset, the iPhone 15, went on sale in September. It is the first iPhone line to feature a titanium frame and include an action button that can be programmed to take photos or turn on the flashlight.
“Five years ago, Apple had really strong branding in China – people would bring tents to wait through the whole night outside the Apple Store for the next product launch,” said Lucas Zhong, a Shanghai-based analyst at Canalys, a market research firm. “The iPhone 15 launch wasn’t nearly as popular.”
Six months later, Apple has plastered billboards across cities such as Shanghai, reminding residents they can still buy an iPhone 15 nearby.
Similar promotions helped the iPhone account for four of the six top-selling smartphones in China in the final three months of last year, the company said during a call with Wall Street analysts.
But the prominent advertising did not persuade Jason Li, 22, to visit the Apple Store on Nanjing East Road, in the heart of Shanghai’s shopping district, when he needed to replace his iPhone 13 Pro Max.
Instead, Li went to the Huawei flagship store directly across the street, where he contemplated the Mate 60 Pro.
“I don’t want to use iOS anymore,” he said, referring to the iPhone’s operating system. “It’s a bit stale.”
Apple declined to comment.
For some in China, buying a phone has become a political statement.
Debates over whether using an iPhone is disrespectful to Chinese tech companies or akin to handing personal data over to the US government have erupted online. Last year, employees at some Chinese government agencies reported being told not to use iPhones for work.
These directives surfaced less than two weeks after Huawei unveiled the Mate 60 Pro, a smartphone equipped with the company’s own operating system and a computer chip more advanced than had previously been made in China.
Huawei released the device in the final days of a trip to China by US Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo. Chinese commentators and state media heralded it as a triumph for Huawei in the face of Washington’s attempts to restrict the company from developing just such technology.
The Mate 60 Pro was an immediate sensation. Its boost to Huawei’s sales carried over into the first six weeks of this year, when the company claimed the second-largest share of the smartphone market, up to 17 per cent from 9 per cent a year earlier, according to data from Counterpoint.
“Today, holding the Mate 60 series gives people a feeling like they had many years ago if someone saw them holding an iPhone on the street,” said Ivan Lam, a senior analyst at Counterpoint Research in Hong Kong. This is especially true for people older than 35, the age group that buys the most smartphones, he said.
China’s smartphone market is divided up by a number of companies. The domestic brands Vivo, Oppo and Xiaomi jostle with Apple and Huawei for the largest pieces.
Apple started selling iPhones in China in 2009. The last time it was losing ground to Huawei, in 2019, the Trump administration inadvertently extended Apple a lifeline by restricting US technology firms from dealing with Huawei.
Google, which makes the Android operating system, and several semiconductor companies cut off their support of the Chinese smartphone maker.
As Huawei struggled, Apple rebounded. In 2022, its share of phones sold in China rose to 22 per cent, from 9 per cent in 2019, according to Counterpoint. Apple reported record revenue of US$74 billion from the region during its fiscal year ending in September 2022.
But the restrictions also forced Huawei to develop its own wireless chip and operating system, resulting in the technology behind the Mate 60 Pro.
The operating system has been a draw for Chinese shoppers, and many of China’s biggest tech companies have made apps exclusively for it, further walling off users from platforms used outside China.
Huawei’s innovation has made Apple’s latest models appear stodgy by comparison. And as China’s economy has struggled to rebound from the Covid-19 pandemic, many consumers are hesitant to spend on what feels like an incremental upgrade.
The owners of about 125 million out of 215 million iPhones in China have not upgraded to newer devices in the past three years, according to Daniel Ives, an Apple analyst at Wedbush Securities.
Apple has responded to the challenges in China. Its CEO, Tim Cook, has travelled to the country and visited Apple’s suppliers.
Last week, he attended the splashy opening of an Apple Store near Shanghai’s Jing’an Temple – the company’s eighth store in Shanghai and 57th in China – to a crowd of Apple fans. The company also said it was expanding its research and development labs in Shanghai.
But for some shoppers, Apple’s efforts have been overshadowed by Washington’s approach to the company’s Chinese rival.
While waiting at the Genius Bar for help with his ailing iPhone 12 at the Apple Store on Nanjing East Road in Shanghai, Chi Miaomiao, 38, said he had recently bought Huawei’s Mate 60 Pro as his second phone.
He was drawn to Huawei after its chief financial officer, Meng Wanzhou, was arrested by Canadian authorities in 2018 at the request of the US, which accused her of misleading banks about Huawei’s business in Iran.
Meng’s detention set off a flood of support in China, where many saw her as a hostage.
“Huawei is our own brand, and because of this political incident, I think we Chinese should be united,” Chi said.
Upstairs on the Apple sales floor, Li Bin, 23, and two friends debated the latest iPhone models. Huawei and Apple were nearly comparable in quality, Li said, and although he thought the iPhone was slightly better, it was also more expensive.
Has China lost its taste for the iPhone?
FOR years, Apple dominated the market for high-end smartphones in China. No other company made a device that could compete with the iPhone’s performance – or its position as a status object in the eyes of wealthy, cosmopolitan shoppers. Read more at The Business Times.
FearlessRoar
T20I Star
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2023
- Runs
- 30,521
Because Huawei, their own company, is leading the global market now.
JaDed
Test Star
- Joined
- May 5, 2014
- Runs
- 38,533
? Which global market, they are only being used by China same as BYD
cricketjoshila
Test Captain
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
- Runs
- 47,963
- Post of the Week
- 1
How many countries is Huawei banned in?
FearlessRoar
T20I Star
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2023
- Runs
- 30,521
"1 Out Of 7 iPhones In The World Manufactured In India": PM Modi To NDTV
Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in an exclusive interview with NDTV, said Apple has increased iPhone production in the country and one out of seven iPhones in the world is now being manufactured in India. He also noted that India is now the second-largest mobile phone manufacturer in the world.
"We were importer of mobile phones. Today we are the second largest manufacturer of mobile phones and we are exporting iPhones today. One out of seven iPhones in the world is now being manufactured in India," said the Prime Minister.
"We are also exporting a record number of the Apple product which is a stellar example of the production-linked incentive (PLI) scheme's success," he added.
Around 25 per cent of all iPhones are to be made in India by 2028. The iPhone maker had a record first-quarter shipment in India, growing by 19% (year-on-year). Apple is also working on lowering its dependence on China by deepening its ecosystems by building a network of local vendors.
In the January-March quarter, Apple recorded a strong double-digit growth in India, which is likely to become the iPhone maker's third-largest market in the next 2-3 years.
Last year, Apple shipped around 10 million iPhones in India, which accounts for 7% of its market share.
www.ndtv.com
Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in an exclusive interview with NDTV, said Apple has increased iPhone production in the country and one out of seven iPhones in the world is now being manufactured in India. He also noted that India is now the second-largest mobile phone manufacturer in the world.
"We were importer of mobile phones. Today we are the second largest manufacturer of mobile phones and we are exporting iPhones today. One out of seven iPhones in the world is now being manufactured in India," said the Prime Minister.
"We are also exporting a record number of the Apple product which is a stellar example of the production-linked incentive (PLI) scheme's success," he added.
Around 25 per cent of all iPhones are to be made in India by 2028. The iPhone maker had a record first-quarter shipment in India, growing by 19% (year-on-year). Apple is also working on lowering its dependence on China by deepening its ecosystems by building a network of local vendors.
In the January-March quarter, Apple recorded a strong double-digit growth in India, which is likely to become the iPhone maker's third-largest market in the next 2-3 years.
Last year, Apple shipped around 10 million iPhones in India, which accounts for 7% of its market share.
"1 Out Of 7 iPhones In The World Manufactured In India": PM Modi To NDTV
Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in an exclusive interview with NDTV, said Apple has increased iPhone production in the country and one out of seven iPhones in the world is now being manufactured in India.
www.ndtv.com
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2023
- Runs
- 21,224
Apple has challenged at Europe's second-highest court a 1.84 billion euro ($2 billion) fine imposed by EU antitrust regulators for impeding Spotify (SPOT.N), opens new tab and other streaming rivals via restrictions on its App Store, according to a court filing.
Apple had already said it would appeal after the European Commission handed down the fine in March, its first ever penalty for infringing EU antitrust rules and the third biggest penalty meted out to a company for anti-competitive behaviour.
A ruling by the Luxembourg-based General Court could take several years while an appeal against its judgment to the Court of Justice of the European Union, Europe's top court, could drag out the litigation by a few more years.
Reuters
Apple had already said it would appeal after the European Commission handed down the fine in March, its first ever penalty for infringing EU antitrust rules and the third biggest penalty meted out to a company for anti-competitive behaviour.
A ruling by the Luxembourg-based General Court could take several years while an appeal against its judgment to the Court of Justice of the European Union, Europe's top court, could drag out the litigation by a few more years.
Reuters
DeadlyVenom
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 28,444
- Post of the Week
- 1
This seems like an amazing thing to boast about rather than Hindu Muslim vengeance and random rants about Pakistan."1 Out Of 7 iPhones In The World Manufactured In India": PM Modi To NDTV
Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in an exclusive interview with NDTV, said Apple has increased iPhone production in the country and one out of seven iPhones in the world is now being manufactured in India. He also noted that India is now the second-largest mobile phone manufacturer in the world.
"We were importer of mobile phones. Today we are the second largest manufacturer of mobile phones and we are exporting iPhones today. One out of seven iPhones in the world is now being manufactured in India," said the Prime Minister.
"We are also exporting a record number of the Apple product which is a stellar example of the production-linked incentive (PLI) scheme's success," he added.
Around 25 per cent of all iPhones are to be made in India by 2028. The iPhone maker had a record first-quarter shipment in India, growing by 19% (year-on-year). Apple is also working on lowering its dependence on China by deepening its ecosystems by building a network of local vendors.
In the January-March quarter, Apple recorded a strong double-digit growth in India, which is likely to become the iPhone maker's third-largest market in the next 2-3 years.
Last year, Apple shipped around 10 million iPhones in India, which accounts for 7% of its market share.
"1 Out Of 7 iPhones In The World Manufactured In India": PM Modi To NDTV
Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in an exclusive interview with NDTV, said Apple has increased iPhone production in the country and one out of seven iPhones in the world is now being manufactured in India.
India should be proud of these technology achievements
Kriketer
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Runs
- 5,277
Do recall reading an article about Huawei phone sales soaring globally and are on par with iphone sales. Latest Huawei phones are extremely durable and fantastic gadget, I would personally pick it over iPhone which is just an overpriced alternative
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2023
- Runs
- 32,673
Yeah, India should be. Apple is a big thing recognized by the whole world and to produce phones for them is nothing short of a big thing that can boost any country's economy. India is way ahead than its neighbors when it comes to technology and accommodating big companies like apple and tesla etc.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
As the tariff wars intensify and reports of Modi government planning to sign a trade deal with the US soon, Bharat might be in a sweet spot to get more business from Apple.
Devadwal
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2020
- Runs
- 26,092
India need to sign a trade deal to get more and more Apportunity in coming months. TRUMP is going to punish China which They Never thinking even in their imagination.
Major
Test Star
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2013
- Runs
- 36,018
- Post of the Week
- 7
Honestly, people celebrating Apple moving iPhone production to India are missing the bigger picture.
This isn't India "winning" anything. It’s just cheap labor being used. First China was the factory, now India is next in line. The real value — the brand, the innovation, the profit — still belongs to Apple. Indians are just getting the assembly work.
And here's the reality: India still doesn't have its own consumer brand that's globally recognized like Apple.
Not one Indian brand you can name that’s iconic from Boston to Paris to Sydney.
Why?
Because India got comfortable selling inside India. 1.4 billion people gave enough profits. No urgency to go global. No focus on creating aspirational brands. Just "value for money" products, not premium identity.
Meanwhile, look at South Korea. Much smaller country, but they exported not just products, they exported culture: K-pop, K-dramas, beauty, tech. Korea built aspiration. India has all the ingredients. Huge diaspora, Bollywood, ancient culture, booming tech scene. But without storytelling, branding, and global ambition, it's just raw potential, not influence.
Being a labor hub for foreign brands isn’t a flex. Building your own global brand is.
Until then, they will keep being proud of assembling someone else's success.
This isn't India "winning" anything. It’s just cheap labor being used. First China was the factory, now India is next in line. The real value — the brand, the innovation, the profit — still belongs to Apple. Indians are just getting the assembly work.
And here's the reality: India still doesn't have its own consumer brand that's globally recognized like Apple.
Not one Indian brand you can name that’s iconic from Boston to Paris to Sydney.
Why?
Because India got comfortable selling inside India. 1.4 billion people gave enough profits. No urgency to go global. No focus on creating aspirational brands. Just "value for money" products, not premium identity.
Meanwhile, look at South Korea. Much smaller country, but they exported not just products, they exported culture: K-pop, K-dramas, beauty, tech. Korea built aspiration. India has all the ingredients. Huge diaspora, Bollywood, ancient culture, booming tech scene. But without storytelling, branding, and global ambition, it's just raw potential, not influence.
Being a labor hub for foreign brands isn’t a flex. Building your own global brand is.
Until then, they will keep being proud of assembling someone else's success.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
India need to sign a trade deal to get more and more Apportunity in coming months. TRUMP is going to punish China which They Never thinking even in their imagination.
That’s a once in a decades kind of opportunity for Bharat.
US-China trade war will bring the US to our doorsteps. PM Modi is holding a great hand here.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
Brother we have to create jobs for millions so it is essential for us. I know we have lagged behind in the tech race but we cannot miss out on these low hanging fruits especially with intense competition from Asian Football powerhouse
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
Suleiman
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2014
- Runs
- 16,642
- Post of the Week
- 2
Congrats to India. Enjoy the fruits of your hard work. 
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
Last week Apple booked 5 flights loaded with iPhones from Bharat & China to the USA in their attempt to avoid tariffs before they’re triggered.
Suleiman
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2014
- Runs
- 16,642
- Post of the Week
- 2
Gotta start somewhere man.
It’s all good, we can be happy for our neighbors’ success as long as it doesn’t compromise on our values and principles.
mominsaigol
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2021
- Runs
- 25,911
- Post of the Week
- 2
They don't really need to go global. Neither does China however China still prefers to have an international stronghold.
Companies like Boats are the 5th highest selling headphone brand only behind a few like Beats, skullcandy, Bose etc.
And Boats is only available in India, it cane be found in other countries but it's bloody expensive as its exported from India, but they are enjoying the profits since 1.4B Indians will buy it.
You don't really need a global presence if you have the largest population. Secondly India doesn't really have any companies that need to go global.
They are not Meta, or Microsoft where In order to survive, products like Facebook, linkeldn etc need to connect the entire world.
Even Chinese companies are rigid in this regard. Tiktok and wechat need to connect with the world and so does Alibaba as its B2B exchange but many companies like Tenecent were the most profitable video game company after Microsoft.
They didn't sell to any other market pre 2013, only until friendly relations were formed and Japan + USA game markets begged for colloboration.
Similarly Chinese companies like Billy Billy and many others are amongst the most profitable companies in the world but they can't be found anywhere except China, not because they can't go international but cause they don't need to.
It's not always easy to have an international presence, companies need to adapt to the culture.
Starbucks failed in Australia, Five Guys failed and hence both these companies had to close down alot of stores and change their plans. Starbucks in Australia isn't really Starbucks in a traditional sense as they sell alot of irrelevant stuff that you can't find in any other Starbucks, and Five Guys had to eventually switch to Australian beef as Aussies don't like non grass fed American beef.
McDonald's in India similarly can't sell beef and it's not easy for such companies to monitor and maintain quality control.
It's not easy to expand.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
Great perspective.
A lot of giant companies working in the shadows actually. People are way too obsessed with certain popular companies because of the unreal valuations. Some of the giants of the corporate world hardly have any social media presence.
mominsaigol
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2021
- Runs
- 25,911
- Post of the Week
- 2
Bro it's not easy to go global. Theirs alot of risk involved. Apple, Google, Microsoft etc etc are all outliers.
Walmart Failed in Japan and Germany and despite plans to open in Australia, Decided to just open up costco instead as Australia is more British oritended then American oriented.
Walmart wasn't willing to decrease its prices, and Japan + Germany have zero reason to buy the exact same stuff found at Walmart that they can find in their own local stores.
I enjoy watching shark tank India, however none of the products sold in shark tank would work internationally. Same case qith shark tank USA. Scrub daddy was an exception as everyone wants cleaning products.
But Larq the self cleaning water bottle failed in countries like Japan, UK cause what's the point of a self cleaning water bottle when literally everywhere you go you can get water for free? Bars, Local stores all provide clean cups of water for free in such countries.
Larq only works in countries like aus or UsA which are cheap And forces you to pay 4 to 7 dollars for a water bottle.
India hasn't gone global in tech cause it doesn't really need to, however India does sell internationally but they are products that the consumer market wouldn't know about cause their not Microsoft lol.
For example in Australia almost all our international pharmaceutical products are Indian made and Indian brands with the made in India title. However we obviously aren't going to check the valuation of a medicine tablet but we will for Apple.
DeadlyVenom
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 28,444
- Post of the Week
- 1
These things all take time. India is going in the right direction, no doubt about it.
Devadwal
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2020
- Runs
- 26,092
Apple is shifting more iPhone production to India to avoid U.S. tariffs on Chinese goods. By the end of 2025, one in four iPhones could be made in India.
What does this mean for India, China, and global manufacturing?
Today, China dominates global manufacturing with 28.8% share of output, more than 10x India's share. Its infrastructure, logistics networks, and skilled workforce are unparalleled.
However, labor costs in China have surged—factory workers earn $600+ per month, vs. $150-$300 in India...
For Apple, this shift is monumental. China has been the backbone of its production for decades, but rising tariffs and geopolitical risks make diversification essential.
Will Apple's gamble on India pay off?
Lower labor costs are an advantage, but replicating its success in China won’t be easy. India must address infrastructure gaps and scale up its supply chain efficiency to meet Apple’s high standards.
To address this, India is supporting Apple’s manufacturing shift with financial incentives like the Production Linked Incentive scheme, infrastructure upgrades, supply chain digitization and workforce training.
What could be the impact for India?
Apple’s expansion in India could create up to 600,000 jobs by FY25, including 200,000 direct roles at factories operated by suppliers like Foxconn and Pegatron.
The multiplier effect could generate millions of indirect jobs across logistics, component manufacturing, and retail.
How big is this impact?
Apple’s shift could be transformative for India. iPhone exports under the PLI scheme are projected to hit ₹1.2 lakh crore ($14B) in FY24 alone, diversifying India's export base beyond traditional textiles.
This move also strengthens India’s position as a preferred destination for foreign investment.
As Apple deepens its commitment to Indian manufacturing, other companies are following suit..
Apple isn’t the only OEM pivoting away from China. Lenovo plans to relocate all laptop production to India within three years, while HP and Dell are increasing their Indian operations.
India’s competitive costs and government incentives make it an attractive alternative for global tech giants seeking supply chain diversification.
How far can this trend go? Could India truly challenge China as the world’s factory?
India’s potential as a manufacturing powerhouse is undeniable: a $5T economy rapidly approaching, a young workforce eager for opportunities, and rising domestic consumption driving growth across sectors. Yet challenges like uneven development and regulatory hurdles remain.
If India can overcome these obstacles, it could reshape global trade dynamics and emerge as a critical player in high-tech manufacturing. Apple’s move could be the catalyst that unlocks India's full economic potential.
What does this mean for India, China, and global manufacturing?
Today, China dominates global manufacturing with 28.8% share of output, more than 10x India's share. Its infrastructure, logistics networks, and skilled workforce are unparalleled.
However, labor costs in China have surged—factory workers earn $600+ per month, vs. $150-$300 in India...
For Apple, this shift is monumental. China has been the backbone of its production for decades, but rising tariffs and geopolitical risks make diversification essential.
Will Apple's gamble on India pay off?
Lower labor costs are an advantage, but replicating its success in China won’t be easy. India must address infrastructure gaps and scale up its supply chain efficiency to meet Apple’s high standards.
To address this, India is supporting Apple’s manufacturing shift with financial incentives like the Production Linked Incentive scheme, infrastructure upgrades, supply chain digitization and workforce training.
What could be the impact for India?
Apple’s expansion in India could create up to 600,000 jobs by FY25, including 200,000 direct roles at factories operated by suppliers like Foxconn and Pegatron.
The multiplier effect could generate millions of indirect jobs across logistics, component manufacturing, and retail.
How big is this impact?
Apple’s shift could be transformative for India. iPhone exports under the PLI scheme are projected to hit ₹1.2 lakh crore ($14B) in FY24 alone, diversifying India's export base beyond traditional textiles.
This move also strengthens India’s position as a preferred destination for foreign investment.
As Apple deepens its commitment to Indian manufacturing, other companies are following suit..
Apple isn’t the only OEM pivoting away from China. Lenovo plans to relocate all laptop production to India within three years, while HP and Dell are increasing their Indian operations.
India’s competitive costs and government incentives make it an attractive alternative for global tech giants seeking supply chain diversification.
How far can this trend go? Could India truly challenge China as the world’s factory?
India’s potential as a manufacturing powerhouse is undeniable: a $5T economy rapidly approaching, a young workforce eager for opportunities, and rising domestic consumption driving growth across sectors. Yet challenges like uneven development and regulatory hurdles remain.
If India can overcome these obstacles, it could reshape global trade dynamics and emerge as a critical player in high-tech manufacturing. Apple’s move could be the catalyst that unlocks India's full economic potential.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
All the investments made by Foxconn and Apple in Bharat, are starting to pay off for them.
If they want to continue being market leaders, they must expand in Bharat.
If they want to continue being market leaders, they must expand in Bharat.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2023
- Runs
- 32,673
Apple says most US-bound iPhones no longer made in China
Apple says it is shifting production of most iPhones and other devices to be sold in the US away from China, which has been the focus of President Donald Trump's tariffs.
The majority of the iPhones bound for the US market in the coming months will be made in India, while Vietnam will be a major production hub for items like iPads and Apple Watches, chief executive Tim Cook says.
It comes as the technology giant estimated that US import taxes could add about $900m (£677.5m) to its costs in the current quarter, despite Trump's decision to spare key electronics from the new tariffs.
The Trump administration has repeatedly said it wants Apple to move production to America.
The estimate comes as firms around the world are scrambling to respond to the huge shifts in global trade triggered by Washington's trade policies.
On a call with investors on Thursday to discuss the firm's financial performance, the Apple boss seemed keen to draw attention to its investments in the US.
Mr Cook opened the discussion with a reminder of the company's plans to invest $500bn across several US states over the next four years.
Made in India
He also said Apple is shifting its supply chain for US-bound products away from China, but it is India and Vietnam that are poised to be major beneficiaries of that move.
"We do expect the majority of iPhones sold in US will have India as their country of origin," Mr Cook said.
Meanwhile, Vietnam will be the chief manufacturing hub "for almost all iPad, Mac, Apple Watch and AirPods product sold in the US".
China will remain the country of origin for the vast majority of total products sold outside the US, he added.
However moving production lines to India will take time and significant investment, costing billions of dollars.
Shanti Kelemen, chief investment officer at M&G Wealth, told the BBC's Today programme: "There will still be tariffs that impact the supply chains [for Apple] and a cost to move them and build new factories.
"Apple have said they want to invest $500bn over the next few years."
Apple shares had plummeted after Trump announced his administration would levy "reciprocal tariffs" on products imported to the United States, with the aim of persuading companies to manufacture more in the US.
But his administration faced significant pressure to moderate its plans. Shortly after the tariffs went into effect, it announced that certain electronics, including phones and computers, would be exempted.
Uncertainty reigns
For now, trade turmoil has left Apple's sales unscathed.
The company said revenues for the first three months of the year rose 5% from the same period last yea
Amazon, another tech giant whose results were being closely watched for signs of tariff damage, likewise said sales were holding up, rising 8% year-on-year in its North America e-commerce business in the most recent quarter.
It forecast similar growth in the months ahead.
"Obviously no one of us knows exactly where tariffs will settle or when," said Amazon boss Andy Jassy, while noting that the firm has emerged from periods of disruption – like the pandemic – stronger than before.
"We're often able to weather challenging conditions better than others," he said. "I'm optimistic this could happen again."
New positioning
The shift of the iPhone supply chain to India was "impressive" according to Patrick Moorhead, chief executive of Moor Insights & Strategy.
"This is a marked change from what [Cook] said a few years back when he said that only China can build iPhones," Mr Moorhead said.
"There is lots of progress that Apple must show here but it's a pretty good start," he said.
Amazon is also repositioning itself to increase resilience in the face of the tariffs.
The company said it working to make sure it had a diversity of sellers and Mr Jassy said he felt the firm was well-positioned for the months ahead, pointing to the firm's scale and its role supplying everyday essentials.
For now, it said sales had not been hurt by the tariff turmoil. If anything, executives said the business may have benefited from some customers starting to stockpile.
Overall sales jumped 9% to $155.7bn in the first three months of 2025, compared with the same period last year, while profits surged more than 60% year-on-year to roughly $17bn.
BBC
Apple says it is shifting production of most iPhones and other devices to be sold in the US away from China, which has been the focus of President Donald Trump's tariffs.
The majority of the iPhones bound for the US market in the coming months will be made in India, while Vietnam will be a major production hub for items like iPads and Apple Watches, chief executive Tim Cook says.
It comes as the technology giant estimated that US import taxes could add about $900m (£677.5m) to its costs in the current quarter, despite Trump's decision to spare key electronics from the new tariffs.
The Trump administration has repeatedly said it wants Apple to move production to America.
The estimate comes as firms around the world are scrambling to respond to the huge shifts in global trade triggered by Washington's trade policies.
On a call with investors on Thursday to discuss the firm's financial performance, the Apple boss seemed keen to draw attention to its investments in the US.
Mr Cook opened the discussion with a reminder of the company's plans to invest $500bn across several US states over the next four years.
Made in India
He also said Apple is shifting its supply chain for US-bound products away from China, but it is India and Vietnam that are poised to be major beneficiaries of that move.
"We do expect the majority of iPhones sold in US will have India as their country of origin," Mr Cook said.
Meanwhile, Vietnam will be the chief manufacturing hub "for almost all iPad, Mac, Apple Watch and AirPods product sold in the US".
China will remain the country of origin for the vast majority of total products sold outside the US, he added.
However moving production lines to India will take time and significant investment, costing billions of dollars.
Shanti Kelemen, chief investment officer at M&G Wealth, told the BBC's Today programme: "There will still be tariffs that impact the supply chains [for Apple] and a cost to move them and build new factories.
"Apple have said they want to invest $500bn over the next few years."
Apple shares had plummeted after Trump announced his administration would levy "reciprocal tariffs" on products imported to the United States, with the aim of persuading companies to manufacture more in the US.
But his administration faced significant pressure to moderate its plans. Shortly after the tariffs went into effect, it announced that certain electronics, including phones and computers, would be exempted.
Uncertainty reigns
For now, trade turmoil has left Apple's sales unscathed.
The company said revenues for the first three months of the year rose 5% from the same period last yea
Amazon, another tech giant whose results were being closely watched for signs of tariff damage, likewise said sales were holding up, rising 8% year-on-year in its North America e-commerce business in the most recent quarter.
It forecast similar growth in the months ahead.
"Obviously no one of us knows exactly where tariffs will settle or when," said Amazon boss Andy Jassy, while noting that the firm has emerged from periods of disruption – like the pandemic – stronger than before.
"We're often able to weather challenging conditions better than others," he said. "I'm optimistic this could happen again."
New positioning
The shift of the iPhone supply chain to India was "impressive" according to Patrick Moorhead, chief executive of Moor Insights & Strategy.
"This is a marked change from what [Cook] said a few years back when he said that only China can build iPhones," Mr Moorhead said.
"There is lots of progress that Apple must show here but it's a pretty good start," he said.
Amazon is also repositioning itself to increase resilience in the face of the tariffs.
The company said it working to make sure it had a diversity of sellers and Mr Jassy said he felt the firm was well-positioned for the months ahead, pointing to the firm's scale and its role supplying everyday essentials.
For now, it said sales had not been hurt by the tariff turmoil. If anything, executives said the business may have benefited from some customers starting to stockpile.
Overall sales jumped 9% to $155.7bn in the first three months of 2025, compared with the same period last year, while profits surged more than 60% year-on-year to roughly $17bn.
BBC
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Runs
- 28,718
DeadlyVenom
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 28,444
- Post of the Week
- 1
India has went backwards in these two weeks.
It's time to dump Modi.
It's time to dump Modi.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
Trump has consistently stated he wants every major company to build in America.
He also spoke similarly when there were reports of Tesla opening giga factories in Bharat.
His view is consistent for months.
Nothing new about it
Only politically unaware people will relate it to the war
He also spoke similarly when there were reports of Tesla opening giga factories in Bharat.
His view is consistent for months.
Nothing new about it
Only politically unaware people will relate it to the war
sweep_shot
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 44,899
India has gone backwards ever since chaiwala Modi came to power in 2014.
They may continue to go backward, unless they abandon hindutva ideology and focus on real growth.
Kianig89
T20I Star
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
- Runs
- 32,243
Good move by Trump Sar ?? Or he should have sapported India
Cpt. Rishwat
T20I Captain
- Joined
- May 8, 2010
- Runs
- 43,059
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Runs
- 28,718
Donald Trump's fresh blow for Apple’s ‘Make in India’ plans; announces 25% tariff on iPhones made outside US
Trump threatens 25% tariff on Apple and says Samsung and other tech companies could be next
President Donald Trump on Friday demanded Apple and other smartphone makers like Samsung make their phones in the United States or face a 25% tariff.
“I have long ago informed Tim Cook of Apple that I expect their iPhone’s that will be sold in the United States of America will be manufactured and built in the United States, not India, or anyplace else,” Trump posted Friday morning on Truth Social. “If that is not the case, a Tariff of at least 25% must be paid by Apple to the U.S.”
Speaking to press in the Oval Office on Friday after signing executive orders, Trump said the tariff would apply to any phone maker selling devices in the US.
“It would be more. It would be also Samsung and anybody that makes that product,” Trump told reporters. “Otherwise it wouldn’t be fair.”
Trump last week during his Middle East trip said he was displeased with Cook, Apple’s CEO, over the company’s plan to manufacture iPhones set to be sold in the United States at newly built plants in India.
Over the past several years, Apple had been working to diversify its production capabilities. Some iPhone production had already moved to India, and Cook on Apple’s earnings call with investors earlier this month said he expected “the majority of iPhones sold in the US will have India as their country of origin.”
On that call, Cook said he expected Apple would face a tariff burden of up to $900 million this quarter. However, it could have been significantly worse: Apple and other US tech companies scored a big win last month when Trump exempted electronics from his massive tariffs on China.
Unlike Apple, Samsung doesn’t rely on China for smartphone production. The South Korea-based tech giant closed its last phone factory in China in 2019 after losing market share to domestic rivals, though it still has operations there. Sources within Samsung previously told CNN that the vast majority of its smartphone manufacturing takes place in South Korea, Vietnam, India and Brazil.
Despite lowering his tariff to at least 30% on most Chinese goods — down from 145% earlier this month — a 10% universal tariff remains on the majority of goods entering the United States. Roughly 90% of Apple’s iPhone production and assembly is based in China, according to Wedbush Securities’ estimates.
Trump met with Cook in Riyadh at the beginning of the president’s Middle East trip last week. In Qatar, he called out Cook for his plan to build US-bound iPhones in India.
“I had a little problem with Tim Cook,” Trump said last week in Qatar. “I said to him, ‘Tim, you’re my friend. I treated you very good. You’re coming in with $500 billion.’ But now I hear you’re building all over India. I don’t want you building in India.’”
Cook met with Trump once again at the White House on Tuesday, an administration official told CNN. The official did not divulge the subject matter of the meeting.
Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said in an interview with Fox News on Friday morning that Trump is trying to “bring back precision manufacturing to the US.”
“I think that one of our greatest vulnerabilities are these, is this external production, especially in semiconductors, and a large part of Apple’s components are in semiconductors,” Bessent said. “So we would like to have Apple help us make the semiconductor supply chain more secure.”
Some of Apple’s chips are already made in the United States, thanks to its partnership with TSMC, which recently opened a chipmaking plant in Arizona. The company did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
‘Those jobs aren’t coming back’
The world’s most valuable publicly traded company is flush with cash and rakes in tremendous profit — more than any company in history. But Apple has long contended that it cannot manufacture iPhones in America.
Apple has invested billions of dollars training millions of skilled engineers abroad. China and India, with their massive populations, simply have more skilled engineers than the United States does. And it costs Apple significantly less to pay those workers.
Steve Jobs, Apple’s late CEO, famously brought up the issue during an October 2010 meeting with former President Barack Obama. He called America’s lackluster education system an obstacle for Apple, which needed 30,000 industrial engineers to support its on-site factory workers.
“You can’t find that many in America to hire,” Jobs told Obama, according to his biographer, Walter Isaacson. “If you could educate these engineers, we could move more manufacturing plants here.”
In a 2012 interview with tech journalists Kara Swisher and Walt Mossberg, Apple CEO Tim Cook said he agreed with Jobs’ assessment. When asked if the day would ever come when an Apple product is made in the United States, he said: “I want there to be … and you can bet that we’ll use the whole of our influence on this.”
The notion Apple can reshore iPhone production is a “fictional tale,” Dan Ives, global head of technology research at financial services firm Wedbush Securities, told CNN’s Erin Burnett last month.
US-made iPhones could cost more than three times their current price of around $1,000, he said, because it would be necessary to replicate the highly complex production ecosystem that currently exists in Asia.
“You build that (supply chain) in the US with a fab in West Virginia and New Jersey, they’ll be $3,500 iPhones,” he said, referring to fabrication plants, or high-tech manufacturing facilities where computer chips that power electronic devices are normally made.
And even then, it would cost Apple about $30 billion and three years to move just 10% of its supply chain to the US to begin with, Ives told Burnett.
Ives reiterated that stance in a statement following Trump’s Friday tariff threat, saying, “the concept of Apple producing iPhones in the US is a fairy tale that is not feasible.” He estimated moving all of Apple’s iPhone production to the United States would take five to 10 years.
An additional 25% tariff on Apple products could result in higher prices for US iPhone buyers. Rumors have already been swirling that Apple is considering raising prices when it releases its new lineup of iPhones in the fall — a move that could further irk Trump, although the company will likely avoid directly attributing the increases to tariffs.
Gene Munster, managing partner at Deepwater Asset Management, estimates it would be difficult for Apple not to raise iPhone prices if it faces tariffs of 30% or higher.
“Anything below 30, they will probably carry the vast majority of that increase,” he said. “But I think at some point they’re going to have to start to share it.”
While moving iPhone production to the United States may not be possible, Apple did announce a $500 billion investment to expand its US facilities earlier this year, in an apparent effort to appease Trump.
The company said the investment would create a new facility to produce servers — previously made outside the United States — in Houston to support Apple Intelligence, its new brand of artificial intelligence products. It will also expand data center capacity in several states, and plans to invest in corporate facilities and production of Apple TV+ shows in 20 states, among other efforts.
Last edited by a moderator:
jusarrived
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2005
- Runs
- 13,533
if not for this Govt we had no chance of competing with Likes of Vietnam let alone China for iphone manufacturing. Trump will say a lot of things, but who will pay for 3 times more expensive iphones made in US? Apple will have to close shop
jusarrived
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2005
- Runs
- 13,533
it will be still cheaper than making phones in US..Trump is just making it 25% more expensive for Americans thats all
Last edited by a moderator:
Hitman
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 17,082
Absolutely.
Kuo: Apple Better Off Taking 25% Tariff Hit Than Move iPhone Production to US
It would be more financially viable for Apple to absorb a 25% import tariff on iPhones sold in the United States than to relocate its assembly...
www.macrumors.com
Devadwal
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2020
- Runs
- 26,092
TRUMP+ "Tim Cook said he is going to India to build plants and I said it is okay to go to India, but you are not going to sell it here without tariffs"
Last edited by a moderator:
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
Apparently Apple has ignored Trump and will proceed with billions of dollars worth of investment in Bharat.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
Apparently an Iphone produced in USA will cost $3500/- 
the Great Khan
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2005
- Runs
- 27,102
- Post of the Week
- 1
I predict India will ditch the iPhone and start to court other manufacturers. Don't be surprised if China gets India to assemble some of its
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
Making iPhones is less about money and more about the headlines of Bharat taking away manufacturing bases from China. That’s the statement we are making with this. This is now a war against China, the manufacturers of inferior weapons.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Runs
- 28,718
China already dominates India when it comes to mobile phones. Just look at their brands selling here like tandoori rotis.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Runs
- 28,718
Source: ChatGPT
As of 2025, several Chinese smartphone brands are actively operating in India, collectively holding a significant share of the market. These brands include:
1. Vivo: Leading the Indian smartphone market with approximately 20% market share in Q1 2025.
2. Xiaomi: Despite a decline, Xiaomi maintains a notable presence with a 13% market share in Q1 2025.
3. Oppo: Holding around 15% market share, Oppo continues to be a key player in the Indian market.
4. Realme: With an 11% market share, Realme remains a popular choice among Indian consumers.
5. OnePlus: Although its market share has declined to 4% in Q3 2024, OnePlus continues to operate in India.
6. iQOO: A sub-brand of Vivo, iQOO has a market share of 4.2% as of Q3 2024.
7. Poco: A sub-brand of Xiaomi, Poco holds a 5.8% market share in Q3 2024.
Collectively, these Chinese brands account for approximately 72% of the Indian smartphone market as of Q3 2024. Despite facing challenges such as increased regulatory scrutiny and competition in the premium segment, these brands continue to maintain a strong presence in India.
You are more than welcome to prove this wrong.
Theanonymousone
Tape Ball Regular
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2021
- Runs
- 315
So whats your point?Source: ChatGPT
As of 2025, several Chinese smartphone brands are actively operating in India, collectively holding a significant share of the market. These brands include:
1. Vivo: Leading the Indian smartphone market with approximately 20% market share in Q1 2025.
2. Xiaomi: Despite a decline, Xiaomi maintains a notable presence with a 13% market share in Q1 2025.
3. Oppo: Holding around 15% market share, Oppo continues to be a key player in the Indian market.
4. Realme: With an 11% market share, Realme remains a popular choice among Indian consumers.
5. OnePlus: Although its market share has declined to 4% in Q3 2024, OnePlus continues to operate in India.
6. iQOO: A sub-brand of Vivo, iQOO has a market share of 4.2% as of Q3 2024.
7. Poco: A sub-brand of Xiaomi, Poco holds a 5.8% market share in Q3 2024.
Collectively, these Chinese brands account for approximately 72% of the Indian smartphone market as of Q3 2024. Despite facing challenges such as increased regulatory scrutiny and competition in the premium segment, these brands continue to maintain a strong presence in India.
You are more than welcome to prove this wrong.
If China felt the same way when they became a manufacturing hub die to its cheap labor costs, they wouldnt be the same nation, they are today.
Constructive criticism is one thing. But you just look for taunting anything positive about India, yet you claim you are an Indian?? How does that make sense? Atleast be real about what you are.
Apple manufacturing in India brings lots of jobs for skilled and unskilled labor. Foxconn in Telangana hired many women workers with just minimal education for low-skilled jobs at ~3LPA. And by 2026, the jobs scale might reach 25,000. I really dont understand whats wrong with this?
It is beneficial for India where, these people might have been dependent on Agriculture which doesnt offer a stable income stream for their qualification. And they would be earning way less than this 3 lakhs / annum jobs.
The focus is to bring manufacturing to India. We cannot achieve home made brands overnight. But we do can hope to bring that manufacturing to India.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Runs
- 28,718
I stopped reading the rest of the post after the bolded part. Just because I am Indian doesn't mean I will blindly defend anything or speak nonsense like some of you do. When people like you run out of arguments, you always circle back to my nationality and fixate on it. Chal nikal.
Theanonymousone
Tape Ball Regular
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2021
- Runs
- 315
You can read a response properly and yet talks about a proper argument. How farcical?
This thread was about Apple manufacturing in India. The logical things to argue would be pros vs cons, benefits, disadvantages, etc.
How did it circle back to Chinese smartphones market share in India? This thread never claimed that, Apple manufacturing in India would make Indian brands as world leaders right?
Infact, the whole point of this thread is about exports. Of the $25B iphones made in FY25 in India, $17.4b were exported.
But all the logical argument you have made was belittling India and putting smiley emojis for other such messages.
People circle back to your nationality because, your posts doesnt have any substance but just point scoring taunts. I mean atleast have some courage to own up what you want to post lol.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Runs
- 28,718
How about actually reading the post I quoted, Mr. Einstein? It's always the weak ones like you who fall back on my nationality when you have run out of arguments. Funny how noobs like you can't make a single point without dragging it in. I am in India right now, deal with it. You can either cry about it or address the points I raised.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 67,054
- Post of the Week
- 1
Similar threads
