Are Pakistani umpires incompetent when it comes to catching chuckers?

[Major]

Mohammad hasnain played only few bbl matches and was caught immediately by the umpires there.

The guy has played his whole life in Pakistan and was never once checked?

It makes you think how many others are chucking and why havent our umpires been able to catch them before hand. If pakistani umpires had caught these bowlers chucking, the investment that pcb does on these pacers wouldnt had been wasted. Infact, their actions could had been fixed even before they were sent in to international cricket.

Are our umpires to scared to report that PCB might become.unhappy with them? Or are they truly incompetent?

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan as a cricket nation has a pathetic attitude towards chucking. We don’t take it as a serious problem and whenever one of our bowlers is banned, we play victim and start crying.

This is why chuckers get a free run in domestic cricket and no umpire/coach bothers to take note.

The likes of Hasnain, Shabbir etc. are (were) innocent chuckers, but then you have the likes of Ajmal and Hafeez who were blatant cheats and knew exactly what they were doing and they are allowed to exploit the system.

Ajmal even lied about having an injury.

 

[Rajdeep]

Maybe in BBL he was trying extra hard and striving for more pace considering the helpful pitches there.

 

[sweep_shot]

I believe Hasnain also played international cricket in SENA countries. Umpires didn't question his action there also.

It was only in BBL where he got reported.

 

[Major]

Maybe in BBL he was trying extra hard and striving for more pace considering the helpful pitches there.

hows that possible. The test were done in separate conditions. He didnt get ban due to match bowling but based on the findings of the test

 

[Major]

I believe Hasnain also played international cricket in SENA countries. Umpires didn't question his action there also.

It was only in BBL where he got reported.

And the BBL umpires got it right with a naked eye.

Its the job of our local umpires to have done this. He has played plenty of cricket here and no one laid an eye

 

[Major]

Pakistan as a cricket nation has a pathetic attitude towards chucking. We don’t take it as a serious problem and whenever one of our bowlers is banned, we play victim and start crying.

This is why chuckers get a free run in domestic cricket and no umpire/coach bothers to take note.

The likes of Hasnain, Shabbir etc. are (were) innocent chuckers, but then you have the likes of Ajmal and Hafeez who were blatant cheats and knew exactly what they were doing and they are allowed to exploit the system.

Ajmal even lied about having an injury.

I feel embarrassed by all this. A Pakistani bowler getting caught in a foreign league..

Interestingly, whenever our bowler was caught chucking, we start whining about Indian bowlers while not caring about the fact that how bad our system is we allowed a chucker to get away all these years while it took an Australian League just 2-3 matches to catch him.

Also Pakistani fans who keep mentioning Bumrah need to be a bit careful, as than Aleem Dar's performance comes into question that if we think hes a chucker than why hasn't Dar saab reported when he has the authority to do so.
The argument we give to such issues we never thing about them

 

[MenInG]

Stop comparing Ajmal case with this just to make cheap brownie points across the border.

Fact is NO one saw anything wrong with Hasnain.

Its quote possible that some team in BBL saw it in slow motion and tried their luck and succeeded. Umpires didnt see this - they were probably alerted about it.

It is what it is - lets stop beating our chests over this.

 

[Gilly]

Stop comparing Ajmal case with this just to make cheap brownie points across the border.

Fact is NO one saw anything wrong with Hasnain.

Its quote possible that some team in BBL saw it in slow motion and tried their luck and succeeded. Umpires didnt see this - they were probably alerted about it.

It is what it is - lets stop beating our chests over this.

No you have got it wrong, the teams and players did not know that the umpires had reported his action, it was the umpires that noticed his action looked suspect.

 

[Zaz]

No you have got it wrong, the teams and players did not know that the umpires had reported his action, it was the umpires that noticed his action looked suspect.

Hes played cricket all over the world for the last 3 years No umpires noticed an issue with his action in the past

 

[Major]

Stop comparing Ajmal case with this just to make cheap brownie points across the border.

Fact is NO one saw anything wrong with Hasnain.

Its quote possible that some team in BBL saw it in slow motion and tried their luck and succeeded. Umpires didnt see this - they were probably alerted about it.

It is what it is - lets stop beating our chests over this.

That would be an assumption. As far as we know, the umpires have the authority to report or not to report which they did and got proven right.

 

[MenInG]

No you have got it wrong, the teams and players did not know that the umpires had reported his action, it was the umpires that noticed his action looked suspect.

ok let me understand this.

The umpire who is looking at the batter and also checking no balls etc are expected to know that 15 degree rule is broken? Of course stuff like that is brought to their attention.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Yes they are incompetent and its actually unfair on the players.

There are only two players that I feel have deliberately and knowingly chucked in cricket. One is Mohammed Hafeez and the other is Ashwin. Ashwin has admitted this on the record but has stated that he did so for a short because he wanted to exploit the flawed rules.

Most other players, especially fast bowlers do not knowingly chuck. Their arms may have slightly gone over the 15 degrees but they are not knowingly doing anything wrong because it feels natural to them and hasn't been picked up earlier.

Picking these things up in age group cricket gives players time to adapt, or in the worst case time to find a new living.

We have seen numerous players caught too late - whether it was Tariq Murali at u-19 level, Shabbir Ahmed who came through to international cricket or guys like Atif Maqbool at Adnan Rasool in domestics who were banned after 50 odd FC games.

Usually, it means the end of their career, or it renders them ineffective.

So our umpires have to step up and stop creating a false sense of security around the players by turning a blind eye to chucking.

 

[HitWicket]

ok let me understand this.

The umpire who is looking at the batter and also checking no balls etc are expected to know that 15 degree rule is broken? Of course stuff like that is brought to their attention.

There's a square leg umpire and a third umpire as well...

 

[Savak]

Hasnain has played in the UAE, England, New Zealand, Australia in the past as well without any issues, why just single out Pakistani umpires?

 

[Ashmal]

Mohammad hasnain played only few bbl matches and was caught immediately by the umpires there.

The guy has played his whole life in Pakistan and was never once checked?

It makes you think how many others are chucking and why havent our umpires been able to catch them before hand. If pakistani umpires had caught these bowlers chucking, the investment that pcb does on these pacers wouldnt had been wasted. Infact, their actions could had been fixed even before they were sent in to international cricket.

Are our umpires to scared to report that PCB might become.unhappy with them? Or are they truly incompetent?

What stopped the ICC umpires from reporting Hasnain....are they too scared of PCB

 

[Mamoon]

Yes they are incompetent and its actually unfair on the players.

There are only two players that I feel have deliberately and knowingly chucked in cricket. One is Mohammed Hafeez and the other is Ashwin. Ashwin has admitted this on the record but has stated that he did so for a short because he wanted to exploit the flawed rules.

Most other players, especially fast bowlers do not knowingly chuck. Their arms may have slightly gone over the 15 degrees but they are not knowingly doing anything wrong because it feels natural to them and hasn't been picked up earlier.

Picking these things up in age group cricket gives players time to adapt, or in the worst case time to find a new living.

We have seen numerous players caught too late - whether it was Tariq Murali at u-19 level, Shabbir Ahmed who came through to international cricket or guys like Atif Maqbool at Adnan Rasool in domestics who were banned after 50 odd FC games.

Usually, it means the end of their career, or it renders them ineffective.

So our umpires have to step up and stop creating a false sense of security around the players by turning a blind eye to chucking.

You can add Ajmal to this list. He stated on record that he had an accident during his childhood due to which it is physically impossible for him to bowl within the prescribed limits, but once ICC banned him 2014, he was able to change his action and bowling within the limits, although he was beyond awful.

Generally speaking, I believe all spinners who were suspending for chucking knew what they were doing.

 

[Mamoon]

Also, Hasnain’s suspension goes to show how lucky Junaid got. The fact that his career completely crashed was probably divine justice, because there is no doubt that he was over the limit. He just got extremely lucky that he was never reported.

Both Basit Ali and Rameez questioned his action, in fact the former was the first person to do so.

 

[NishanKonar]

ok let me understand this.

The umpire who is looking at the batter and also checking no balls etc are expected to know that 15 degree rule is broken? Of course stuff like that is brought to their attention.

Its the responsibility of the square leg umpire to check the bowler's action

When Murali was first called no ball by Darrel Hair from the bowling end - this was categorically mentioned by Don Bradman that he should not be the one calling no ball. The square leg umpire should be

 

[Major]

Its the responsibility of the square leg umpire to check the bowler's action

When Murali was first called no ball by Darrel Hair from the bowling end - this was categorically mentioned by Don Bradman that he should not be the one calling no ball. The square leg umpire should be

this was a very interesting debate that was initiated in 2004.

The discussion was, who should be calling a bowler to have illegal action. Bob Woolmer, Rameez Raja, Chappel and many other were part of a discussion panel held by different cricket websites at the time.

What most of them said that while an Umpire should report a suspected action, to deem a bowler to be chucking, one should use technology and not just the naked eye. Akhtar's case was referred many times as if it weren't for technology his hyper extension issue would never had been known.

Calling out a suspected action can be done by anyone.. An umpire match referee etc, but too deem an action illegal is done by technology.

 

[NishanKonar]

this was a very interesting debate that was initiated in 2004.

The discussion was, who should be calling a bowler to have illegal action. Bob Woolmer, Rameez Raja, Chappel and many other were part of a discussion panel held by different cricket websites at the time.

What most of them said that while an Umpire should report a suspected action, to deem a bowler to be chucking, one should use technology and not just the naked eye. Akhtar's case was referred many times as if it weren't for technology his hyper extension issue would never had been known.

Calling out a suspected action can be done by anyone.. An umpire match referee etc, but too deem an action illegal is done by technology.

The problem is those days was umpires reported a bowler for chucking but after biomechanical tests conducted at the University of Western Australia ( UWA ) in Perth , the bowler wud be declared legal

The umpiring fraternity complained that this was most likely bcoz the bowler was not bowling at the test center like he was doing in a real match. Any smart bowler who chucks can modify his action while testing and bowl within limits.This was reason why bowlers like Murali got away ( at least that was alleged )

This was why ICC removed UWA as testing center and introduced new testing protocols whereby bowlers have to match the real match delivery action at the testing center. This is why post 2014 so many bowlers like Ajmal, Narine , Senanayake , Pragyan got called out in 20114 even though they were cleared previously by the UWA.

Senanayake even complained that the testing team was racist and was forcing him to bowl differently. Real reason was Senanayake was trying to get away by bowling a perfectly legal action during testing but the testing team understood from video analysis this was not how he bowled during a match

In a way Murali got away. Most likely he would have got banned if the new testing process was started 10 years earlier. And Darrel Hair wud not get vilified