Are people getting frustrated and hopeless with PTI's blunders and mishaps so far?

[Savak]

I certainly am. Imran Khan has now made a complete U-turn on practically every aspect of his manifesto namely

1) The $200 billion looted wealth abroad and the tax amnesty scheme

2) Complete passiveness and naivety in dealing with the opposition, pursuing corruption cases against the Sharif's and Bhutto's/Zardari's

3) Zero punching power over the daily assault in the print, electronic, social media by the opposition and their supporters

4) Complete lack of professionalism in running the affairs of the govt and premature statements being made i.e. the Kekra Oil Drilling Saga

5) Controversial appointments for the CM of Punjab and KPK

6) Not standing by Atif Mian in the Economic Advisory Council given that he was one of the world renowned debt experts

7) PM going back on his promise of appearing in the Parliament and facing Q&A from the opposition. The PM not even addressing the nation on tv or hosting a press conference on atleast a monthly basis with the top most senior journalists in the country. In the most testing times a nation looks to its leader to give it some confidence

8) Complete lack of any sense of direction in economic plans, decision making and clearly showing that all their plans in place were just idealistic and that as a whole they did not really do their homework on assuming office

9) IMF U-turn

10) Discovering that most PTI officials in the party were not capable of becoming ministers and hence having to now rely on Technocrats and experienced people from other parties to bail them out

11) What is the role of Jahangir Tareen? Is he the de-facto deputy Prime Minister?

I mean where is the country going? What is the game plan? Did you just assume office to just become Prime Minister and that's it?

Which investor in their right frame of mind will want to invest in Pakistan and trust a government that looks very disoriented. I have stopped watching the talk shows now because i am now sick and tired of listening to anti PTI comments.

 

[Badsha]

Vote for pppp then.

 

[Mamoon]

All of these are valid criticisms, and the signs were there when Imran stalked to walk all over his manifesto and vision after 2013. Once a revolutionary settles for comprises and backtracks on his beliefs to come into power, he or she can no longer be trusted to deliver.

The signs for PTI's doom first appeared when he took the electables route. His justification was that you cannot win election without having the vote banks of the political class on your side, but PTI emerged to weed out these tried and tested failures from the system and not to welcome them in the fold. That decision was always going to backfire.

The wheels have come off for this government and they have no idea what they are doing. PTI is a very strong opposition party - they know how to run their mouth and put the government under pressure. Imran has the ability to gather the masses and he has a PhD in dharna politics. However, running the country is not the same as sitting in opposition, and Imran is now learning the hard way.

 

[Zhasan]

My criteria for PTI/Imran success is solely based on one issue and that is bringing the looters, including both politicians and bureaucrats to justice, if he succeeds in getting the big fishes for the corruption, then his efforts, struggles and tenure would have been worth it...

 

[UP]

All of these are valid criticisms, and the signs were there when Imran stalked to walk all over his manifesto and vision after 2013. Once a revolutionary settles for comprises and backtracks on his beliefs to come into power, he or she can no longer be trusted to deliver.

The signs for PTI's doom first appeared when he took the electables route. His justification was that you cannot win election without having the vote banks of the political class on your side, but PTI emerged to weed out these tried and tested failures from the system and not to welcome them in the fold. That decision was always going to backfire.

The wheels have come off for this government and they have no idea what they are doing. PTI is a very strong opposition party - they know how to run their mouth and put the government under pressure. Imran has the ability to gather the masses and he has a PhD in dharna politics. However, running the country is not the same as sitting in opposition, and Imran is now learning the hard way.

Didn’t you vote PTI last year?

 

[Savak]

My criteria for PTI/Imran success is solely based on one issue and that is bringing the looters, including both politicians and bureaucrats to justice, if he succeeds in getting the big fishes for the corruption, then his efforts, struggles and tenure would have been worth it...

Same for me.

 

[Pakistanian]

Being Prime Minister ain't easy, give him his five years.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

If I were a voter, i'd vote for PTI/IK not because PTI or IK are any better, but because others aren't good enough either. Their criticism rings hollow because they've been guilty of appointing and implementing similar individuals and policies respectively under their tenures.

 

[Loralai]

Naive to think things would change given that the real power is held by the Establishment and not civilian politicians.

 

[Savak]

Naive to think things would change given that the real power is held by the Establishment and not civilian politicians.

A lazy excuse, even the so called establishment would not be so stupid to announce the potential discovery of oil/gas wells when no such discovery had been made

 

[last_knight]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] , which players have been buying dollar during last week ? This alone can answer 50% of your questions from OP.

Not that previous govts were examplary. We will have to wait for another 18-24 months before finalising our verdict. Ain't easy to defeat Mafia.

 

[Hamza_]

Survival is getting tough with each passing day, Stagflation is all over.

 

[IAJ]

Give them full 5 years, a bit too early to judge.

But I find it strange that a big mouth like Fawad Ch can continue whereas capable guys like Asad Umar had to go.

 

[King-Misbah]

It is not easy taking over an economic mess! Lets hope for the best and give Khan 5 years to show his worth The enemies of Pakistan want Khan to fail. And also the institutions are so weak and controlled by mafia tholla; they need to be strengthened to hold the chor mafia accountable.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Hasnt even been 1 year yet. Asians never had patience as a quality anyways.

 

[Waseem]

I have seen a lot of PTI supporters and neutrals criticising Imran Khan and you can't really blame them.

Most people don't understand the issues government is facing and they are only concerned about the results and obviously aren't getting any results.

No one is even arguing whether economic situation was good or bad when PTI took over, EVERYONE agrees it was disastrous and the only question is whether PTI should've gone to IMF right after coming to power or after 8 months (which means country was struggling before PTI took over). I don't need to repeat myself again that PTI government had absolutely no option but to take these tough decisions for long term stability.

Now if you are sick of all of it within 8 months because Imran Khan failed to defeat mafia in opposition, bureaucracy, doctors, media etc who were all satisfied with status quo then do tell us who you think would prove to be better than PTI?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

yes people are getting frustrated with Ik and PTI, however i feel that the criticism is not justified. He took over when the country was pretty much at rock bottom, and he has not even completed one year as yet.
Also people need to keep in mind that Imran Khan cant turn Pakistan into Sweden, or Norway. he needs to be judged on whether he and PTI are better than PML N, PPP, the mullahs, MQM, etc.

The biggest mistake that IK made was appointing Asad Umar as finance minister. He played games with the IMF, delaying the inevitable in order to get a better package. Had PTI went to the IMF as soon as they came into power they could have pinned the blame completely on PML N. However the delay means they are going to be held partly responsible.

 

[Kriketer]

Too early to judge. One thing for sure, he is the most honest man compared to all other choors and dakoos we have had for decades. Give him time, he took over a struggling third world country. Only naive knee-jerk snowflakes would expect struggling country's fortune to change within 8 months (we got plenty of those here).

We will be much better able to access in 2-3 years time. Atleast under him we are seeing corruption getting accounted, which is a massive plus for a country cursed with corruption down to core. If they did voting again right now, I will vote for Imran without a thought. Only individuals who are used to crooks and want this country drain down sh!ts would want any other older parties back.

 

[Noman]

Too early to judge. One thing for sure, he is the most honest man compared to all other choors and dakoos we have had for decades. Give him time, he took over a struggling third world country. Only naive knee-jerk snowflakes would expect struggling country's fortune to change within 8 months (we got plenty of those here).

We will be much better able to access in 2-3 years time. Atleast under him we are seeing corruption getting accounted, which is a massive plus for a country cursed with corruption down to core. If they did voting again right now, I will vote for Imran without a thought. Only individuals who are used to crooks and want this country drain down sh!ts would want any other older parties back.

Give imran khan 10 years than talk. Mistakes Will happend but imran khan is the Best and only option left.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

I have seen a lot of PTI supporters and neutrals criticising Imran Khan and you can't really blame them.

Most people don't understand the issues government is facing and they are only concerned about the results and obviously aren't getting any results.

No one is even arguing whether economic situation was good or bad when PTI took over, EVERYONE agrees it was disastrous and the only question is whether PTI should've gone to IMF right after coming to power or after 8 months (which means country was struggling before PTI took over). I don't need to repeat myself again that PTI government had absolutely no option but to take these tough decisions for long term stability.

Now if you are sick of all of it within 8 months because Imran Khan failed to defeat mafia in opposition, bureaucracy, doctors, media etc who were all satisfied with status quo then do tell us who you think would prove to be better than PTI?

People who're criticizing PTI right now have no idea that Pakistan was going to default in a few weeks because the national treasury was almost empty and foreign reserves barely covered a few weeks of import.

All that was because of this illusion of growth and artificially strong valuation of the rupee under Ishaq Dar's team. This created an artificial economy and kept chipping away at the treasury and foreign reserves. A balance of payments crisis loomed large. Exports kept dropping. Meanwhile, the public was kept happy by minute price hikes and artificial growth percentages. We were struggling to pay even just the interest on the countless billions of dollars in loans. New loans were taken to repay interest for previous ones.

Read the latest comments by IMF about recent policies of the PAK govt.
https://www.imf.org/en/News/Article...c-Policies-with-Pakistan-for-a-Three-Year-EFF

This is just one part of the statement:
"Pakistan is facing a challenging economic environment, with lackluster growth, elevated inflation, high indebtedness, and a weak external position. This reflects the legacy of uneven and procyclical economic policies in recent years aiming to boost growth, but at the expense of rising vulnerabilities and lingering structural and institutional weaknesses. The authorities recognize the need to address these challenges, as well as to tackle the large informality in the economy, the low spending in human capital, and poverty. In this regard, the government has already initiated a difficult, but necessary, adjustment to stabilize the economy, including through support from the State Bank of Pakistan."


I'll ask everyone a simple question here.


If you are in debt would you rather:

a) Acquire further loans to repay the previous debts and maintain your spending/lifestyle as it was before but still owe a debt albeit at a later deadline.

b) Decrease your spending, increase your sources of income and tolerate a hard time for a few years to ensure that you don't owe anyone anything once you've repaid the loan.

 

[slipcatch]

No!

Any one with immature sense of economy, history of Pakistan's economy, and history past governance of Pakistan would understand that any government trying to fix the economy for a long term would have had to go through current phase, there is absolutely no escaping from it.

People you see criticizing on PP are those who have supposedly built a career of to appear different, trying to save their wealth that they had accumulated, and for the sake of criticism, as you see, they do not provide any solution and their criticism is filled with unconscionable lengthy paragraphs, and talking points that they regurgitate.

Remember, regardless of who was elected or even the establishment, if they had intended to fix the economy of Pakistan, they had no other option but to go through this current phase.

 

[Mamoon]

No!

Any one with immature sense of economy, history of Pakistan's economy, and history past governance of Pakistan would understand that any government trying to fix the economy for a long term would have had to go through current phase, there is absolutely no escaping from it.

People you see criticizing on PP are those who have supposedly built a career of to appear different, trying to save their wealth that they had accumulated, and for the sake of criticism, as you see, they do not provide any solution and their criticism is filled with unconscionable lengthy paragraphs, and talking points that they regurgitate.

Remember, regardless of who was elected or even the establishment, if they had intended to fix the economy of Pakistan, they had no other option but to go through this current phase.

So why did Kaptaan remove Asad Umar? Unless you agree that he has an "immature" sense of economy. If that is so, what hope do we have from someone like him to steer the country in the right direction?

 

[slipcatch]

So why did Kaptaan remove Asad Umar? Unless you agree that he has an "immature" sense of economy. If that is so, what hope do we have from someone like him to steer the country in the right direction?

Stop playing stupid, you aren't one.

 

[Mamoon]

Stop playing stupid, you aren't one.

Please don't deflect the question. Try to answer it if you can.

Let me break it down again. People who were critical of Asad Umar's performance were rubbished by PTI supporters because they did not understand economics, and whatever policies Asad Umar were implementing were going to take time to bear fruits. So what happened?

Were people wrong to defend Asad Umar who was not doing a good job in the first place? If that is true, perhaps PTI supporters are the one exhibiting economic immaturity.

OR

Asad Umar was doing a good job, but Imran was impatient which clearly does not put him in good light.

OR

Asad Umar was doing a good job and Imran knew that, but he caved under the pressure and criticism of the opposition. Again, this doesn't make Imran look good, does it?

OR

Imran was pressurised by the higher powers and it wasn't his decision. Same higher powers who took interior ministry from him.

Take your pick. All options and possibilities have been covered so it shouldn't be hard.

 

[slipcatch]

Please don't deflect the question. Try to answer it if you can.

Let me break it down again. People who were critical of Asad Umar's performance were rubbished by PTI supporters because they did not understand economics, and whatever policies Asad Umar were implementing were going to take time to bear fruits. So what happened?

Were people wrong to defend Asad Umar who was not doing a good job in the first place? If that is true, perhaps PTI supporters are the one exhibiting economic immaturity.

OR

Asad Umar was doing a good job, but Imran was impatient which clearly does not put him in good light.

OR

Asad Umar was doing a good job and Imran knew that, but he caved under the pressure and criticism of the opposition. Again, this doesn't make Imran look good, does it?

OR

Imran was pressurised by the higher powers and it wasn't his decision. Same higher powers who took interior ministry from him.

Take your pick. All options and possibilities have been covered so it shouldn't be hard.

I am not deflecting, it's just i refuse to have discussion in circle with someone, who doesn't present any solution other than "competent corrupt politician" are better than honest politician and with someone who pretend to play stupid.

People are hired and fired daily based on their performance in every institution of the world.

 

[Mamoon]

I am not deflecting, it's just i refuse to have discussion in circle with someone, who doesn't present any solution other than "competent corrupt politician" are better than honest politician and with someone who pretend to play stupid.

People are hired and fired daily based on their performance in every institution of the world.

So I take it that you don't have any justification to why Asad Umar was sacked. I think I got my answer, thank you.

 

[slipcatch]

So I take it that you don't have any justification to why Asad Umar was sacked. I think I got my answer, thank you.

whatever keep your PP career afloat .

 

[Badsha]

So why did Kaptaan remove Asad Umar? Unless you agree that he has an "immature" sense of economy. If that is so, what hope do we have from someone like him to steer the country in the right direction?

Name me one successful person in history of politics, sport or any profession that never made misjudgment on what the best solution may be. Heck name me one successful company.

 

[Mamoon]

Name me one successful person in history of politics, sport or any profession that never made misjudgment on what the best solution may be. Heck name me one successful company.

Misjudgment is fine, but when you have a Messiah complex and a holier than thou attitude, how do you expect people to let it slide? The problem with Imran's supporters is that they portray him as a saviour, but then they want him to be judged with the same lens as every other politician. It doesn't work that way - when you put someone on a pedestal, he or she is not going to be judged against the same standards as everyone else.

 

[Savak]

One thing is for certain, if the PTI govt and Imran Khan fails miserably, no honest person will ever think about entering politics and aim for the PM slot again. A massive brain drain from Pakistan will occur.

 

[Savak]

Misjudgment is fine, but when you have a Messiah complex and a holier than thou attitude, how do you expect people to let it slide? The problem with Imran's supporters is that they portray him as a saviour, but then they want him to be judged with the same lens as every other politician. It doesn't work that way - when you put someone on a pedestal, he or she is not going to be judged against the same standards as everyone else.

So its okay for the likes of Nawaz and Zardari to openly show haramipan?

 

[Badsha]

Misjudgment is fine, but when you have a Messiah complex and a holier than thou attitude, how do you expect people to let it slide? The problem with Imran's supporters is that they portray him as a saviour, but then they want him to be judged with the same lens as every other politician. It doesn't work that way - when you put someone on a pedestal, he or she is not going to be judged against the same standards as everyone else.

Don't shift the goalposts now. You attributed his removal of Asad Umar as an immature sense of economy and I asked you to give me an example of a "mature" sense of economy.

No one is judging Imran with then same lens. If that were the case, no one would be frustrated with the current economic climate because PTI has done much better than past governments. The very reason there is harsh criticism is due to the fact we have high standards for IK.

 

[WebGuru]

So its okay for the likes of Nawaz and Zardari to openly show haramipan?

Yes because they have a license of it! IK need to steal a few billions at least before he can even think about getting special treatment like those thugs

 

[WebGuru]

The very reason there is harsh criticism is due to the fact we have high standards for IK.

/thread

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Please don't deflect the question. Try to answer it if you can.

Let me break it down again. People who were critical of Asad Umar's performance were rubbished by PTI supporters because they did not understand economics, and whatever policies Asad Umar were implementing were going to take time to bear fruits. So what happened?

Were people wrong to defend Asad Umar who was not doing a good job in the first place? If that is true, perhaps PTI supporters are the one exhibiting economic immaturity.

OR

Asad Umar was doing a good job, but Imran was impatient which clearly does not put him in good light.

OR

Asad Umar was doing a good job and Imran knew that, but he caved under the pressure and criticism of the opposition. Again, this doesn't make Imran look good, does it?

OR

Imran was pressurised by the higher powers and it wasn't his decision. Same higher powers who took interior ministry from him.

Take your pick. All options and possibilities have been covered so it shouldn't be hard.

I dont think all options and possibilities were covered in your post.

The people who were criticizing Asad Umar did not say that he should have went to the IMF asap, instead they were mainly criticizing him for implementing the IMF agenda such as removing subsidies and letting the rupee depreciate. They were criticizing mainly to score points against IK.

If the minister is incompetent should IK not sack him? he sacked his own cousin from the Cricket team so it should not surprise people that he will remove poor performers.

 

[UP]

So why did Kaptaan remove Asad Umar? Unless you agree that he has an "immature" sense of economy. If that is so, what hope do we have from someone like him to steer the country in the right direction?

Didn’t you vote PTI last year?

 

[last_knight]

One thing is for certain, if the PTI govt and Imran Khan fails miserably, no honest person will ever think about entering politics and aim for the PM slot again. A massive brain drain from Pakistan will occur.

PTI now has access to all files and records. They now know the modus operandi and culprits. This alone can help reduce deficits.

Only major hurdle is uncooperative top bureaucracy. With proposed new model of Local Body Govt, Even bureaucracy will have its powers reduced.

Factual impact of PTI governance will start becoming evident 4-6 months after LB Elections.

Current economic mess was inevitable anyway.

 

[Pete Rose]

If you spend your time on social media and online generally, you are likely to be disappointed. The rest of the population has just too much going on to pay attention.
FWIW the latest gallup polls on Pakistan show that PTI has lost support but about as much as PML did in its second year.
The majority of voters want to see the government serve out its five years, but they are not optimistic about the future.
They also do not want to see Nawaz Sharif freed or being sent abroad as well.

 

[Lonewarrior]

well, i want to give IK Two Terms before judging his performance, becoz the other two parties already had ther chances more thn twice.

 

[aqeelPK]

The direction & policies should have been set by now. Unfortunately nothing exists to be hopeful for next 4 years at the moment. Policies are same take more local/foreign loans, impose new taxes, increase tariffs, remove subsidies, squeeze salaried persons. This cannot work in Pakistan. They needed to bring in business community into tax net. Large businesses have far too many relaxations & exemptions, small businesses pay zero taxes. Needed to transform national institutions losses into profits. No economy can sustain only on tax collection, govt needs to earn through its institutes. Zero work on that account so far, infact losses are increasing.

I was expecting following tough decisions from PTI in first year

Reduce/remove tax relaxations on large businesses
Regulate, make laws & implement with full force to bring small businesses into tax net
Identify causes of failures of national institutes (over employment, poor management, nepotism, corruption) & fix them
Work on bringing back looted wealth
Eliminate jihadi proxies & abide to international laws (fatf etc), improve relations with india/afg/iran
Review export & FDI policies & fix them
Reduce import bill (total ban on luxury items, promote made in Pakistan)

However, they took following tough decisions (that previous govts also took & failed)
Loans from brotherly countries
IMF bailout package
Loans from local banks
Increase interest rate
Devalue currency
Squeeze consumers
Increase power tariffs

Nothing was ever achieved with these policies & nothing will ever be. Exports are not growing, import bill is increasing, loans/debts/deficits are increasing.
Couple of years ago, 50,000Rs monthly income was considered decent for a family to live. Now, families with 50,000Rs monthly income are struggling to survive (consider the monthly cost of two kids education, groceries, rents, utility bills, transportation, clothing, parents support & you will get an idea of how difficult life has become for even this class). 50.45 million people are living below the poverty line in Pakistan & the poverty line for this number is monthly income of 6,000Rs.
Incomes are not increasing for anyone right now be it salaried persons or businessmen. Inflation increasing on daily basis.
Majority of Pakistanis believe in Imran Khan as their savior. But, the hope is dying out quickly with every passing day.
We the blessed ones can afford to give Imran Khan another couple of years, but general public can't. I personally know many die hard supporters of Imran Khan, but due to their financial situations, they are or have given up on Imran Khan. Imran Khan must have to keep that hope alive among common citizens (the only way is to provide immediate financial relief at any cost), we absolutely have no other option right now, cannot afford another regime shift in near future and go round n round in circles.
I voted for PMLN, but honestly speaking, I have been praying for PTI success from the day they took charge. These are extremely tough times (you have no idea of sufferings of common citizens these days). We need to think beyond party affiliations, pray & play our roles in success of current Govt, think as a nation instead of parties. Let the democracy continue, it will strengthen and bring prosperity with passage of time.
My humble request to all of you, please stop useless criticisms on each other, point out weaknesses or bad policies of the Govt at any available forum regardless of your party affiliations. PTI will only get stronger if their voters/supporters start positive criticism & audit of their leadership. PMLN/PPP or anyother party will only get stronger if their supporters learn from previous mistakes & force their leaderships to learn & improve as well.
May Allah help us all in these tough times.

 

[The_Odd_One]

PTI is giving PPP a run for its money when it comes to incompetence. The government is totally clueless on how to run the country. What a big let down, Imran has been. Should stick to cornered tiger speech and mere talk.

 

[Savak]

PTI is giving PPP a run for its money when it comes to incompetence. The government is totally clueless on how to run the country. What a big let down, Imran has been. Should stick to cornered tiger speech and mere talk.

So far all 3 parties have been incompetent to be very honest.

 

[Azzurri]

Asking Pakistanis to be patient is perhaps too much to ask. Give the damn government a bit of time before getting your knives out. On the other hand, With huge expectations it’s quite normal to have criticism. I think PTI government should stay focused and try to fix the system Instead of making big claims

 

[slipcatch]

So far all 3 parties have been incompetent to be very honest.

Who would have been solve Pakistan's economy, that is heavily in debt, in 9 months? NO ONE.

Give it a time.

As the person below your comment has said, "Asking Pakistani to be patient is perhaps too much to ask".

 

[slipcatch]

PTI is giving PPP a run for its money when it comes to incompetence. The government is totally clueless on how to run the country. What a big let down, Imran has been. Should stick to cornered tiger speech and mere talk.

The odd one, trying exceptionally hard to be odd one.

Let's not form a tunnel vision to full fill your preconceived idea.

Take everything in account.

 

[Waseem]

Exact words of an economist (on talkshow) on current crisis "Govt ko bura bhala kaha ja sakta hai laikin jis haalat main economy mili agar farishtay bhi aa jaayein tou itni jaldi theek na kar paayein".

As i said many times, people who are questioning why things haven't magically been fixed in 9 months have absolutely no idea what the problem is. Things may not improve even in next year and may take couple of years. And some of these people actually started questioning the government within 3 months.

 

[Savak]

A guy on twitter recommended that Imran Khan address the nation and make the following points

1) Be extremely honest about the state at which the economy was handed to him

2) The truth about the chemotherapy steps which need to be taken to make long term structural changes and the resulting side effects and also be truthful about how long it will take i.e. 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, 4 years?

3) Take ownership of all decisions on the economy going forward

4) Tell the nation that he is least interested in holding on to the PM chair forever, that he is going to do whatever is in the best interests of the country even if it costs him his reelection

 

[slipcatch]

A guy on twitter recommended that Imran Khan address the nation and make the following points

1) Be extremely honest about the state at which the economy was handed to him

2) The truth about the chemotherapy steps which need to be taken to make long term structural changes and the resulting side effects and also be truthful about how long it will take i.e. 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, 4 years?

3) Take ownership of all decisions on the economy going forward

4) Tell the nation that he is least interested in holding on to the PM chair forever, that he is going to do whatever is in the best interests of the country even if it costs him his reelection

He has already done that in his speech after election.

 

[Hamza_]

Khan is our worst PM ever.

 

[Pakistanian]

Khan is our worst PM ever.

Yeah cause you can make a judgement in just 9 months and of course he's "worse" then the previous Prime Ministers that stole billions of dollars lol, you people are delusional.

 

[Savak]

Yeah cause you can make a judgement in just 9 months and of course he's "worse" then the previous Prime Ministers that stole billions of dollars lol, you people are delusional.

Badniyat is the right term

 

[last_knight]

Yeah cause you can make a judgement in just 9 months and of course he's "worse" then the previous Prime Ministers that stole billions of dollars lol, you people are delusional.

Because Sharifs and Zardari were giving subsidies to maintain artificial control of dollar vs PKR. And small to medium scale businessmen would have loved that.

Now that subsidies are no more available, majority of these beneficiaries will criticise PTI.

 

[Pakistanian]

Because Sharifs and Zardari were giving subsidies to maintain artificial control of dollar vs PKR. And small to medium scale businessmen would have loved that.

Now that subsidies are no more available, majority of these beneficiaries will criticise PTI.

They missin' the forest for the trees.

 

[Hamza_]

In an import oriented economy, Currency Devaluation is the worst thing you can do.

 

[Savak]

In an import oriented economy, Currency Devaluation is the worst thing you can do.

Living beyond your means is the worst thing you can do in the long run

 

[Pakpak]

I don't know about PTI but we surely are of your threads and posts.

 

[Pakpak]

In an import oriented economy, Currency Devaluation is the worst thing you can do.

[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] this guy is meant to be an accountant.

 

[Bewal Express]

In an import oriented economy, Currency Devaluation is the worst thing you can do.

What determines the value of a currency? If you are intelligent to know this then you know will understand the devaluation

 

[Bewal Express]

In an import oriented economy, Currency Devaluation is the worst thing you can do.

What is the link between a artificially strong currency and imports? If you know that you will see why the Nooras left a disaster.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

What is the link between a artificially strong currency and imports? If you know that you will see why the Nooras left a disaster.

Only in exceptional cases does making the currency open to market forces work. Those exception only proves the rule. Our issue is less about currency but more on our economy's orientation. They are little to no quality controls on the things we manufacture, and we manufacture nearly nothing. Our exports are based on raw material and agriculture and not on finished goods. These products are susceptible to market fluctuations because we do not have nearly as unique natural resources as we pretend to think. The US and European markets have subsidized their agriculture sector so much so that it becomes nearly impossible for third world countries to compete with them. On the other hand, the downside of taking IMF loan is that our industries will get increasingly privatized and the profits, instead of trickling down to the common man, will land in off-shore accounts and the little tax these industries will generate will go into debt servicing and 'balancing the books'. Its a toxic cycle.

 

[Bewal Express]

Only in exceptional cases does making the currency open to market forces work. Those exception only proves the rule. Our issue is less about currency but more on our economy's orientation. They are little to no quality controls on the things we manufacture, and we manufacture nearly nothing. Our exports are based on raw material and agriculture and not on finished goods. These products are susceptible to market fluctuations because we do not have nearly as unique natural resources as we pretend to think. The US and European markets have subsidized their agriculture sector so much so that it becomes nearly impossible for third world countries to compete with them. On the other hand, the downside of taking IMF loan is that our industries will get increasingly privatized and the profits, instead of trickling down to the common man, will land in off-shore accounts and the little tax these industries will generate will go into debt servicing and 'balancing the books'. Its a toxic cycle.

Most countries may have target rates for their currency and normally have the means to defend it if things go wrong. In 1992, the Chancellor Norman Lamont spent billions to defend the £, and keep the £ in the exchange rate Mechanism but in the end he lost billions and it still had to be devalued.
Your lack of understanding of PK economy is glaring poor, when you talk about privatisation of industries- can you name these industries that are actually making a profit and whose profit we will forego? The state industries are a bain on the economy and lose billions with Corruption and mismanagement both major culprits.
We may not have many industries but what we did have, was destroyed by an overvalued currency and power shortages.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Most countries may have target rates for their currency and normally have the means to defend it if things go wrong. In 1992, the Chancellor Norman Lamont spent billions to defend the £, and keep the £ in the exchange rate Mechanism but in the end he lost billions and it still had to be devalued.
Your lack of understanding of PK economy is glaring poor, when you talk about privatisation of industries- can you name these industries that are actually making a profit and whose profit we will forego? The state industries are a bain on the economy and lose billions with Corruption and mismanagement both major culprits.
We may not have many industries but what we did have, was destroyed by an overvalued currency and power shortages.

Here's the thing. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that when you have a trade deficit, you will require more dollars to import things. The higher the demand for dollars, the more the value of rupee falls. Now lets look at why there is a trade deficit. We are in a global race to bottom. Where you get the cheapest labour big corporations move to that place. When we entered into WTO we gave up our future to the idea that because we have natural advantage at producing primary goods, we'll focus more on the production of these commodities. A good analogy would be that if you are better at polishing boots, you and your children and your future generations should naturally stick to this profession. So now your children, even though good at polishing boots, will never get the chance to become doctors, engineers, and so on and so forth.
Lets come back to off shore accounts. The tax havens provide re-invoicing services. So a company can import products worth $10 but it can re-invoice it at $20. That $20 goes to an off-shore account. So now, the company has effectively laundered $10 worth of its profits to an offshore account. Even better, they can show losses without getting scrutinized because the governments are always afraid that putting pressures on such companies will be the end of their operations in their jurisdictions which would ultimately result in the loss of jobs.
That's just one way the companies all over the world avoid taxes. I don't have to name a particular company because in the globalized world most companies and conglomerates are involved in this practice.
As far as state-owned industries are concerned, yes the governments' incompetence have a huge role in their downfall. However, that's not the whole picture. Due to the global warming (primarily caused by the 'developed world'), our natural resources are depleting faster than ever before. The rivers are drying up, so we are naturally in a situation where our hydal power generation is at a huge loss. Because we could never invest properly in high tech energy generating sector, we never got to match the rest of the rich world in their latest methods of power generation. We lost energy resources while other countries surpassed us in this sector while the businesses wrapped up and moved on. The government owned sector suffered because it was then forced to absorb the work force that lost its jobs when the others wrapped up their businesses. If any organisation has more workers and less work, that organisation becomes a breeding ground for mismanagement and the subsequent lack of accountability and oversight.

 

[Bewal Express]

Here's the thing. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that when you have a trade deficit, you will require more dollars to import things. The higher the demand for dollars, the more the value of rupee falls. Now lets look at why there is a trade deficit. We are in a global race to bottom. Where you get the cheapest labour big corporations move to that place. When we entered into WTO we gave up our future to the idea that because we have natural advantage at producing primary goods, we'll focus more on the production of these commodities. A good analogy would be that if you are better at polishing boots, you and your children and your future generations should naturally stick to this profession. So now your children, even though good at polishing boots, will never get the chance to become doctors, engineers, and so on and so forth.
Lets come back to off shore accounts. The tax havens provide re-invoicing services. So a company can import products worth $10 but it can re-invoice it at $20. That $20 goes to an off-shore account. So now, the company has effectively laundered $10 worth of its profits to an offshore account. Even better, they can show losses without getting scrutinized because the governments are always afraid that putting pressures on such companies will be the end of their operations in their jurisdictions which would ultimately result in the loss of jobs.
That's just one way the companies all over the world avoid taxes. I don't have to name a particular company because in the globalized world most companies and conglomerates are involved in this practice.
As far as state-owned industries are concerned, yes the governments' incompetence have a huge role in their downfall. However, that's not the whole picture. Due to the global warming (primarily caused by the 'developed world'), our natural resources are depleting faster than ever before. The rivers are drying up, so we are naturally in a situation where our hydal power generation is at a huge loss. Because we could never invest properly in high tech energy generating sector, we never got to match the rest of the rich world in their latest methods of power generation. We lost energy resources while other countries surpassed us in this sector while the businesses wrapped up and moved on. The government owned sector suffered because it was then forced to absorb the work force that lost its jobs when the others wrapped up their businesses. If any organisation has more workers and less work, that organisation becomes a breeding ground for mismanagement and the subsequent lack of accountability and oversight.

SOE in PK are a shambles because the management is appointed by Corrupt Politicians who need yes men to find jobs for party workers and other bribe paying job seekers. This process has destroyed every single SOE and we have ended up with billions in losses and not even a decent service. They should be privatised as a priority but with powerful oversight because many have monopoly status.

We need new industries but that takes time but it requires good honest Politicians working with clever innovative business people, not crooked Politicians conniving with crooked business men.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

SOE in PK are a shambles because the management is appointed by Corrupt Politicians who need yes men to find jobs for party workers and other bribe paying job seekers. This process has destroyed every single SOE and we have ended up with billions in losses and not even a decent service. They should be privatised as a priority but with powerful oversight because many have monopoly status.

We need new industries but that takes time but it requires good honest Politicians working with clever innovative business people, not crooked Politicians conniving with crooked business men.

We can only develop new industries if we are willing to protect them from the foreign competition. Daraz.pk cannot compete with Amazon. We need to provide education to the newer generation in specialized fields, without which we cannot develop clever innovative business people. Now you can attribute this to corruption but that too wouldn't be completely accurate. We are in an eternal cycle of balancing the books and debt servicing so even if we allocate one percent of our budget to education, the government will not spent that money because of the fear of fluctuations in the economy caused by 'market forces'. We balance the books at the expense of our future. Now there is no denying that corruption is a big issue but focusing only on corruption is like treating HIV with strepsils.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Even in agriculture sector where we are supposed to have natural advantage, there are no land reforms. I'd be intellectually dishonest to claim that its the current government's fault but their lack of action on this issue is not helping the situation. Peasants need their own land to cultivate. Instead, we have traditional large landowners and lobbyists masquerading as politicians who have embedded themselves in the political parties and sucking the system dry. They have a monopoly on the market where they dictate the prices of agricultural products. There is no accountability because they are the so-called 'electables'. In this monopoly, these feudal lords have little incentives for the well-being of the farmers because we have a population bulge and for every farmer, there are several others waiting to take their places so if a farmer dies of malnutrition he/she is of little consequence to the feudal lord. Because we are eternally busy in balancing the books we never educated them, never paid attention to their well-being and never invested in their future.

 

[Bewal Express]

Even in agriculture sector where we are supposed to have natural advantage, there are no land reforms. I'd be intellectually dishonest to claim that its the current government's fault but their lack of action on this issue is not helping the situation. Peasants need their own land to cultivate. Instead, we have traditional large landowners and lobbyists masquerading as politicians who have embedded themselves in the political parties and sucking the system dry. They have a monopoly on the market where they dictate the prices of agricultural products. There is no accountability because they are the so-called 'electables'. In this monopoly, these feudal lords have little incentives for the well-being of the farmers because we have a population bulge and for every farmer, there are several others waiting to take their places so if a farmer dies of malnutrition he/she is of little consequence to the feudal lord. Because we are eternally busy in balancing the books we never educated them, never paid attention to their well-being and never invested in their future.

This I agree with. Land reform is needed urgently but feudalism controls​ the PPP,and has far too much influence on the Nooras and the PTI.

 

[Hamza_]

[MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION]

Practically, In a country like Pakistan you can never devalue currency like they have.

I believe they camnot even negotiate loan terms, previous government through demand and supply controlled currency which was the way forward until local industry blossomed.

Even bulk of your industry raw materials are being imported, so since you are import dependent you cannot go against the tide to cut imports or make them expensive because you do not have any other option.

 

[Bewal Express]

[MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION]

Practically, In a country like Pakistan you can never devalue currency like they have.

I believe they camnot even negotiate loan terms, previous government through demand and supply controlled currency which was the way forward until local industry blossomed.

Even bulk of your industry raw materials are being imported, so since you are import dependent you cannot go against the tide to cut imports or make them expensive because you do not have any other option.

Please reply to the following- As you ran previously
What determines the value of a currency? and What is the link between a artificially strong currency and imports?

 

[Hamza_]

All of above has been answered in previous post straight at your face. Thank you.

 

[Savak]

[MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION]

Practically, In a country like Pakistan you can never devalue currency like they have.

I believe they camnot even negotiate loan terms, previous government through demand and supply controlled currency which was the way forward until local industry blossomed.

Even bulk of your industry raw materials are being imported, so since you are import dependent you cannot go against the tide to cut imports or make them expensive because you do not have any other option.

Who is going to finance the reserves which will be required to pump dollars to artificially inflate the dollar and who is going to pay back the loans?

Whose fault is it that the local business community depends on imported raw materials? To be honest the Pakistani business community at large is very lazy, lacks the will to work hard, to innovate and believes in the mindset of if it aint broke, dont fix it while the rest of the world is moving on with times.

I am glad the Pakistani govt is ending all these handouts to the businessmen who are used to them.

 

[Bewal Express]

All of above has been answered in previous post straight at your face. Thank you.

No it hasn't- so stop running and answer the question.

 

[The_Odd_One]

The odd one, trying exceptionally hard to be odd one.

Let's not form a tunnel vision to full fill your preconceived idea.

Take everything in account.

I do not have to try exceptionally hard. Imran has made it easier by firing someone within 8 months who was supposed to bring an end to all of Pakistan's economic problems.