Are pundits scared of losing work in India?

[DeadlyVenom]

It's a theory that gets a lot of traction online but are pundits prone to fawning over the Indian side and avoiding criticism because they are want to keep the IPL pay cheques coming in.

Michael Vaughan seems to allude to this today

"India have to be honest now. What happens when India arrive at a World Cup? Everyone plays them up. Nobody wants to criticise them because you get hammered on social media and pundits worry about losing work in India one day. But it is time to tell it straight. They can hide behind their great players but it is about getting a team playing the right way as a whole. Their bowling options are too few, they do not bat deep enough and lack spin tricks."

He quite bravely calls them the most underperforming team in white ball history but do you feel his point regarding criticism is correct?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2022/11/10/india-under-performing-team-white-ball-history/

 

[shaz619]

It's a theory that gets a lot of traction online but are pundits prone to fawning over the Indian side and avoiding criticism because they are want to keep the IPL pay cheques coming in.

Michael Vaughan seems to allude to this today

"India have to be honest now. What happens when India arrive at a World Cup? Everyone plays them up. Nobody wants to criticise them because you get hammered on social media and pundits worry about losing work in India one day. But it is time to tell it straight. They can hide behind their great players but it is about getting a team playing the right way as a whole. Their bowling options are too few, they do not bat deep enough and lack spin tricks."

He quite bravely calls them the most underperforming team in white ball history but do you feel his point regarding criticism is correct?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2022/11/10/india-under-performing-team-white-ball-history/

Yes 100% they must be, apart from the ones from Pak and England, the rest are worried about their pay check. There is too much smoke being blown up the superstars behinds, everyone is an all time great, yet 2011 is the only world honours for them to brag about and between then an now, the board is richer then ever and IPL has grown substantially, there has been too much infatuation for a mediocre and mentally weak bunch. Attitude plays a huge role, look at England from 2015 onwards, these guys will have a party and all will be well after another humiliating defeat in a tournament, but surely even they can’t mess up a home tournament in 2023…

 

[Ashmal]

It's pretty obvious.

Look at websites like Cricinfo, they have had numerous articles overhyping even below average cricketers like Axar Patel, Harshal, etc.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No doubt about it.

I know this is a small sample size but you can look at this forum as an example. There are some members like me who genuinely want India to do well and hence rightly criticise our own players here. Some of these players we criticise have huge fan following so these fans are not used to reading criticism of their favorite players. They will call you names, question your nationality, make fun of your opinion when they are proven wrong.

 

[Energy]

Now we'll be made to believe that Vaughan is a sore loser, and references will be made that he couldn't achieve anything of significant note (apart from 05 Ashes) when he was in charge of the England team.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Can't comment on whether they are scared of losing work in India. But its certainly unfortunate that pundits on Sky and other channels insist on rating us as favourites every single time. It's sad to see "respected" pundits afraid of calling out India for fear of losing a few bucks Either that or they are just incompetent.

India's performance this World T20 is as per the quality of the side.

 

[Kianig89]

Yes and the reason why Black & White era pundits are still doing commentary in Premier T20 tourneys

 

[RexRex]

Yes and the reason why Black & White era pundits are still doing commentary in Premier T20 tourneys

Only Gavaskar comes to mind where refering to the black & white era.

 

[Major]

Yup it is true.

Indias performance in world t20 has been an utter joke which indians themselves dont admit to.

In the space of 12 months they have played 2 world t20s. Out of 10 games they played against 5 minnows and 5 top teams. They were only able to register 1 win against a top team and that was in this world t20 against pakistan.

They lost to nz, pakistan, england, and South Africa.

Yet pundits talk this team up as if its a very good team when the fact is that its a very pathetic team that is only bashing minnows.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

Whilst I can’t say for sure, the evidence points towards pundits being extra charitable towards Indian players. It all stems from that one time where Amitabh, on social media criticised Harsha Bhogle’s commentary, specifically his admiration of a foreign player. Dhoni then agreed with Amitabh on twitter and from then on all Indian pundits became analysts less and cheer leaders more. Someone like a Sanjay Manjekar, despite his less agreeable POVs, started to lose work until he too became a cheer leader.

Naturally, foreign pundits also had to fall in line to earn that £££. However, the problem with an echo chamber that tells you you’re great all the time, is complacency sets in. And even a team with India’s resources can’t have complacency because at the highest level you get found out.

In Pakistan we have the reverse problem, in that ‘analysts’ are ever ready to throw players under the bus.

I remember after the first game people had given up on SSA.

Shadab got a lot of grief after 2017 until he finally found himself as a cricketer.

 

[RexRex]

I think Vaughan does a daily Cricbuzz video update with Bhogle. He should say it to his face during these interactions instead of chirping in columns .. because there's some truth to what he said fer sure.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Whilst I can’t say for sure, the evidence points towards pundits being extra charitable towards Indian players. It all stems from that one time where Amitabh, on social media criticised Harsha Bhogle’s commentary, specifically his admiration of a foreign player. Dhoni then agreed with Amitabh on twitter and from then on all Indian pundits became analysts less and cheer leaders more. Someone like a Sanjay Manjekar, despite his less agreeable POVs, started to lose work until he too became a cheer leader.

Naturally, foreign pundits also had to fall in line to earn that £££. However, the problem with an echo chamber that tells you you’re great all the time, is complacency sets in. And even a team with India’s resources can’t have complacency because at the highest level you get found out.

In Pakistan we have the reverse problem, in that ‘analysts’ are ever ready to throw players under the bus.

I remember after the first game people had given up on SSA.

Shadab got a lot of grief after 2017 until he finally found himself as a cricketer.

I was thinking exactly the same thing re Pakistan criticism. While I would prefer to err on the side of being critical rather than fake praise which builds up players beyond their worth, as happens with India, the wrist slitting can get tiresome when it's overdone.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

I saw Indian channels yesterday (those that actually decided to cover the loss to England - very few. Most just ignored it.)

There was a lot of criticism of tactics, approach, mindset, skills.

Yet
...they did not criticize a single player or coach with any strong conviction. It felt as if the discussion was about some khalai makhlooq.

Complete opposite to how it happens in Pakistan where a player sneezing means his 3 generations must be held to ransom.

On Indian channels, no one demanded Rohit/Dravid resign, no one really took Kohli to task for his 40 ball 50. Not even the fans in the background did that. And not a word on Jay Shah.

It was surreal. And scary. Something out of 1984.

 

[Savak]

Foreign pundits especially Australian ex players do too much sucking up to Virat Kohli. They know full well if they don't then they lose out on potential work in India.

 

[Suleiman]

Next year’s WC will be on another level drama wise.

But I can’t help but feel that this t20 WC being the best one ever arguably has really hurt the relevance of ODIs.

 

[Kianig89]

Only Gavaskar comes to mind where refering to the black & white era.

Shastri Bhogle are no more the mid age fellas both are over 60s in fact the pines of their age have lived their lives)

 

[IAJ]

Next year’s WC will be on another level drama wise.

But I can’t help but feel that this t20 WC being the best one ever arguably has really hurt the relevance of ODIs.

50 over matches would feel like Test matches after so much T20 cricket and to be honest ICC should just drop this ODI WC.

 

[Markhor]

Whilst I can’t say for sure, the evidence points towards pundits being extra charitable towards Indian players. It all stems from that one time where Amitabh, on social media criticised Harsha Bhogle’s commentary, specifically his admiration of a foreign player. Dhoni then agreed with Amitabh on twitter and from then on all Indian pundits became analysts less and cheer leaders more. Someone like a Sanjay Manjekar, despite his less agreeable POVs, started to lose work until he too became a cheer leader.

Naturally, foreign pundits also had to fall in line to earn that £££. However, the problem with an echo chamber that tells you you’re great all the time, is complacency sets in. And even a team with India’s resources can’t have complacency because at the highest level you get found out.

In Pakistan we have the reverse problem, in that ‘analysts’ are ever ready to throw players under the bus.

I remember after the first game people had given up on SSA.

Shadab got a lot of grief after 2017 until he finally found himself as a cricketer.

Rameez was trying to bring BCCI-style censorship to the commentary box in the AUS series.

He chided them for mentioning the appalling pitches served up, and so we didn't hear a peep after Pindi Test. But there was plenty of time for Tapal Tea plugs.

 

[Saj]

Some of the sucking up is embarrassing.

It's almost like the Indian players are like gods for some of these pundits and commentators and can do no wrong.

And this includes many of the Pakistani pundits too.

 

[ElRaja]

It's a theory that gets a lot of traction online but are pundits prone to fawning over the Indian side and avoiding criticism because they are want to keep the IPL pay cheques coming in.

Michael Vaughan seems to allude to this today

"India have to be honest now. What happens when India arrive at a World Cup? Everyone plays them up. Nobody wants to criticise them because you get hammered on social media and pundits worry about losing work in India one day. But it is time to tell it straight. They can hide behind their great players but it is about getting a team playing the right way as a whole. Their bowling options are too few, they do not bat deep enough and lack spin tricks."

He quite bravely calls them the most underperforming team in white ball history but do you feel his point regarding criticism is correct?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2022/11/10/india-under-performing-team-white-ball-history/

not just pundits, players, officials, everyone. and i don't blame them, if i was a pro cricketer id do exactly the same if it meant diff between playing the IPL or not.

its exacerbated by the fact that all desis are very desperate for validation from the former colonisers, so they genuinely are happy to pay to hear this stuff.

if asian pundits praise or rag on non-asian teams, neither the teams or fan base really care too much, but the opposite is not true.

 

[Energy]

Some of the sucking up is embarrassing.

It's almost like the Indian players are like gods for some of these pundits and commentators and can do no wrong.

And this includes many of the Pakistani pundits too.

I think you're pointing toward Akhtar. I haven't seen anyone suck up to India so much lately than this guy. Its beyond embarrassing. And on the other hand needlessly speak negatively about his own players.

 

[PakLFC]

Pak ones surely are not worried. Others may be for sure. The umpires also seem to be very pro Indian but even they couldn't take India to the final

 

[sam_ahm]

Yup it is true.

Indias performance in world t20 has been an utter joke which indians themselves dont admit to.

In the space of 12 months they have played 2 world t20s. Out of 10 games they played against 5 minnows and 5 top teams. They were only able to register 1 win against a top team and that was in this world t20 against pakistan.

They lost to nz, pakistan, england, and South Africa.

Yet pundits talk this team up as if its a very good team when the fact is that its a very pathetic team that is only bashing minnows.

This is a good point, in last two WC combined, we haven't won against any major teams barring that freak win against Pak.

Criticism is always good, turning a blind eye towards it will only harm the team.

 

[jino]

This is a good point, in last two WC combined, we haven't won against any major teams barring that freak win against Pak.

Criticism is always good, turning a blind eye towards it will only harm the team.

But India lost all 4 tosses against those major teams they played in last 2 world cups. Toss does play a huge role in T20 especially on slow pitches in UAE. Luck was not in favor of India. Everyone is criticizing Indian openers for slow start. The have to start slow because of 4 proper number 11 bowlers we play. The blame must be on management and team selectors who are clueless about building a strong lower order batting. Pakistan and England are doing good because they bat proper till number 8.

 

[Major]

But India lost all 4 tosses against those major teams they played in last 2 world cups. Toss does play a huge role in T20 especially on slow pitches in UAE. Luck was not in favor of India. Everyone is criticizing Indian openers for slow start. The have to start slow because of 4 proper number 11 bowlers we play. The blame must be on management and team selectors who are clueless about building a strong lower order batting. Pakistan and England are doing good because they bat proper till number 8.

Sri lanka wom a final with a loss toss.

Pakistan almost defeated australia in the semis if it werent for the catch.

If your team is good enough than toss is an excuse. Yess toss plays a factor in uae but not as much as indian fans like to whine about.

If you think wis come due to toss that means you are not good enough

 

[Abstraction1]

India cricket is dead.

What we see now is "Team India". It is a brand, an image. It is a corporation where some stakeholders make serious bank through a massive, cheap and naive fanbase.

BCCI have to ensure there is a culture of entitlement and glossy packaging. They'll choose their commentators and ensure there is zero criticism.

Look at the wry smiles and monotone praise International players give to Indians and India in the IPL. It's easy money.

 

[jino]

Sri lanka wom a final with a loss toss.

Pakistan almost defeated australia in the semis if it werent for the catch.

If your team is good enough than toss is an excuse. Yess toss plays a factor in uae but not as much as indian fans like to whine about.

If you think wis come due to toss that means you are not good enough

If it was not for the toss advantage, there was no way NZ would have been in the T20 final of 2021. I agree India is not good enough to reach final that’s why this exit does not hurt me that much. But Toss did play a role. India at least would have won 2 games out of those 4 we lost. The problem is the selectors and management who pick one dimensional players who can only bowl and not bat even for an over.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Sri lanka wom a final with a loss toss.

Pakistan almost defeated australia in the semis if it werent for the catch.

If your team is good enough than toss is an excuse. Yess toss plays a factor in uae but not as much as indian fans like to whine about.

If you think wis come due to toss that means you are not good enough

SL did not win that. Pakistan lost that match playing some really poor cricket.

 

[Savak]

Still remember how Shane Warne would constantly mention "Viraaat Kohliiii" 24/7 as if he was the only world class player.

I loved how the proteas in South Africa refused to kiss Indian behinds and the South African pacers peppered the Indian tail enders with short paced deliveries.

 

[Local.Dada]

Aren’t we sick of the same discussion in different flavors every other week?

Firstly the shelf life of an athlete is very limited. Once a player reaches 30 we see on forums such as this and others were people start calling the player buddha and old and want youngsters.

The options are broadcasting and coaching.

Coaching unlike playing the game is not a tangible profession. You don’t have control on the output.

Broadcasting and Tv rights on the other hand well we know who controls that.


So why does this question pop up again and again is a bigger question?

Are we expecting different answers every time?

 

[cerebralrattlesnake]

India cricket is dead.

What we see now is "Team India". It is a brand, an image. It is a corporation where some stakeholders make serious bank through a massive, cheap and naive fanbase.

BCCI have to ensure there is a culture of entitlement and glossy packaging. They'll choose their commentators and ensure there is zero criticism.

Look at the wry smiles and monotone praise International players give to Indians and India in the IPL. It's easy money.

welcome to late stage capitalism

 

[Messiah]

IPL has killed Indian cricket. Every team member is a superstar with huge fan base thanks to IPL. Pundits and players are scared to criticize any players for fear of backlash and losing out on IPL money. The result is india cricket team has to carry out of form and has been players like Rahul, Rohit, kumar, ashwin, etc. Gone are the days of debuting 16 year old Sachin Tendulkar. It's all business now.

 

[DHONI183]

I would´ve to agree with this to a certain degree, and it´s something which I´ve felt myself at a personal level listening to the commentary during India´s matches. Nobody discusses KL Rahul being opportunist who bashes the daylight out of minnows, but instead it´s said that "He has had a good tournament until today." Nobody dares to call out Rohit for his horrible innings of 27 off 28 balls which made sure that India were never going to reach any big score. None of that happens. Their failures are overlooked and their past records and success is discussed all the time. It´s annoying cheerleader stuff, to be honest, and Gavaskar leads the pack here, but it fully applies to non-Indian commentators and analysts as well.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Definitely experts are scared to criticize India. It’s not just about losing money or contracts. I feel the reason is 3 fold.
1) Indian players have fine records on paper due to their dominance in bilateral series. This means they have it in them to win it all (though it rarely happens). No pundit wants to look like a donkey by saying India will not win it all or the Indian team is bad.
2) Indian teams big names have millions of fans. Pundits do not want to incur the wrath of the online fans and trolls by calling out the underperforming big name.
3) of course money. No pundit wants to lose money over comments. BCCI must not be irked at any cost. So experts utter sweet words even though they know that Indian team is flawed and full of non-performing big names.

 

[Fenrir]

I think Indian Panditb will lose their jobs too.A lot of pandits were called to pro-Modi tv channels before Eng-India match.They were using astrology/numerology to predict the outcome of the match.India was going to be the clear winner according to the pandits but they got it completely wrong.

 

[Fenrir]

I think Indian Pandits will lose their jobs too.Many pandits were called to pro-Modi tv channels to predict the result of Eng-India match.They were using astrology/numerology to predict the outcome of the match.India was going to be the clear winner according to the pandits but they got it completely wrong.

 

[Major]

If it was not for the toss advantage, there was no way NZ would have been in the T20 final of 2021. I agree India is not good enough to reach final that’s why this exit does not hurt me that much. But Toss did play a role. India at least would have won 2 games out of those 4 we lost. The problem is the selectors and management who pick one dimensional players who can only bowl and not bat even for an over.

If any team cries about toss that shows how terrible that team actually is.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

It's pretty obvious.

Look at websites like Cricinfo, they have had numerous articles overhyping even below average cricketers like Axar Patel, Harshal, etc.

They make spin tracks for axar to boost stats against SENA countries to portray as world class..

Chahal and Kuldeep have done much better than outside India... Ashwin not sure why he is there, and in last WT20 there was Varun chakravarthy another IPL sensation...

Harshal Patel teaching how to bowl slower balls , off cutters lol, cant even make the team in a WC in Aus which is a paradise for bowlers...

Except Kohli this team is full of mediocre players hyped over the moon..

Hardik the way he looks once he hits a six or takes a wicket, thinks too big of himself , cant make the test squad in reality , imagine if he reaches the level of Kapil Dev , Imran khan or Jack Kallis..

 

[Stewie]

What’s that guy who is always talking as if he is angry enough to kill someone? Vikrant I believe- he is almost always criticizing his team and yet it seems like he has a lot of following.

 

[Gullycricket]

The biggest sucking is done by Aussies. They big up these players so much. Does anyone remember that video by Cricket Australia showing towering Rishabh Pant passing over Sydney. The same Rishabh Pant got very few games and in the end had to sacrifice his wicked to be in the team. Aussies used to be ruthless against India but everything changed after the advent of IPL. It was fine of they hype Kohli but it's funny when they're trying it with players who are yet to prove themselves. Another example is Brett Lee hyping up yet Unproven Umran Malik. Aussies are being guilty of this the most. Calling the Pakistani bowling attack the worst to come to Australia while remaining silent over the Indian bowling attack which lost 4-0 to them in 2012.

 

[jino]

If any team cries about toss that shows how terrible that team actually is.

So you believe toss doesn’t have any role in T20? Batting first or second doesn’t matter and it doesn’t affect the results? David Warner himself said it’s advantageous to bat second in Dubai during last World Cup. In UAE it’s get better to bat second with dew. Like I said before India lacked rub of green with respect to toss. They lost 4 toss in last two world ups and it played a big role in their defeat against big teams. Similarly the game against Pakistan in Melbourne, India would have lost that game had we battled first. The ball was moving prodigiously under clouds in first innings.

 

[Major]

So you believe toss doesn’t have any role in T20? Batting first or second doesn’t matter and it doesn’t affect the results? David Warner himself said it’s advantageous to bat second in Dubai during last World Cup. In UAE it’s get better to bat second with dew. Like I said before India lacked rub of green with respect to toss. They lost 4 toss in last two world ups and it played a big role in their defeat against big teams. Similarly the game against Pakistan in Melbourne, India would have lost that game had we battled first. The ball was moving prodigiously under clouds in first innings.

Sri lanka won an Asia cup with a loss toss in UAE.

To win a trophy, you need to be good enough and not cry about toss.

 

[jino]

Sri lanka won an Asia cup with a loss toss in UAE.

To win a trophy, you need to be good enough and not cry about toss.

Babar won the toss and he elected to bowl first because he knew it’s suit him. Pakistan was winning that game for most part. You could only come up with only one example of Sri Lanka winning batting first . You discarded all other matches where it was easy for team to bat second and win.

 

[Saj]

The biggest sucking is done by Aussies. They big up these players so much. Does anyone remember that video by Cricket Australia showing towering Rishabh Pant passing over Sydney. The same Rishabh Pant got very few games and in the end had to sacrifice his wicked to be in the team. Aussies used to be ruthless against India but everything changed after the advent of IPL. It was fine of they hype Kohli but it's funny when they're trying it with players who are yet to prove themselves. Another example is Brett Lee hyping up yet Unproven Umran Malik. Aussies are being guilty of this the most. Calling the Pakistani bowling attack the worst to come to Australia while remaining silent over the Indian bowling attack which lost 4-0 to them in 2012.

That is true.

The Aussies seem to be the kings of this at the moment.

It's like they can't criticise anything to do with Indian cricket.