Are South Africa the new minnows in international cricket?

[silent ischemia]

But Same ABD was a star performer in Test Series

This Virat Kohli's India will never lose to full strength NZ 5-0; as simple as that. It was indeed a minnow performance by Pak in the ODIs

 

[Oligochaetes]

Are South Africa the new minnows in International Cricket?

No. Certainly not. They won the test series. They were just outclassed by 3 gentlemen on their home turf, thats all. This is not enough to be classified as a minnow.

They just had a 17 match unbeaten winning streak at home for God's sake.

 

[CadPakFan]

South Africa may have lost an ODI series at home but they win an ODI & T20I series versus India in India.

 

[dhonixi]

If Sa is minnow now then barring India and England, all are minnow in odi's.

 

[Stumper]

Yes they are minnow, for next world cup they have to fight for spot with Ireland, PNG & Zimbabwe.

 

[jagatk]

Opened the thread to answer an emphatic NO.

 

[austerlitz]

Its not that south africa are very bad,its that the Indian bowling and top 3 batsmen are very good.Dhawan and sharma are 2 top openers in the world,only comparable ones are warner and guptill.Kohli is the best batsman in the world.When they are in form indian batting line up is formidable.

The main difference is bowling.Bhuvi and bumrah are both solid bowlers at the beginning and death.You will very rarely have a scenario where they give away 6 plus in first 10 overs without a wicket.Then comes the main difference - the newly introduced wrist spinner duo,who replaced jadeja-ashwin after their failure in CT final.If the wrist spinners weren't there series result might have been different.

With tehir top order and 4 bowlers if India could fix their middle-lower order the team would be very tough to beat.

 

[Napa]

You do realize Russow was player of the series and highest run scorer and he wasnt playing. Not only him but there was no QDK, Faf, ABD for only three matches.

You are arguing against yourself. If QDK, Faf, and ABD not being in the team is the reason that SA lost, then that fact weakens the argument that SA are "minnows".

 

[Watsupdoc]

Just because India won - doesn’t mean that Saf are minnows.

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

This is perhaps the most premature thread on pp in a while. SA may be going down but not a minnow in any way.

 

[Nitya85]

Competing doesn’t mean darn if you don’t win.

Come and tell me when they actually win or even draw away series for change.

Yeah u put draw filter jus bcoz Pakistan able to get one in England.

 

[Nitya85]

same?

The saffers team which played in 1st Odi was not a weak team

 

[Princejain191]

Yeah u put draw filter jus bcoz Pakistan able to get one in England I

Wait was that the series where England's best all-rounder and bowler were not playing in the first match and one of them throughout the series? And players like Hales, Balance, Vince were in the top 5?

Jeez, can't get easier than that. England was probably not serious and preparing for the ODI series. The ODIs didn't make for a pretty viewing, did they?

 

[BreadPakoda]

Wait was that the series where England's best all-rounder and bowler were not playing in the first match and one of them throughout the series? And players like Hales, Balance, Vince were in the top 5?

Jeez, can't get easier than that. England was probably not serious and preparing for the ODI series. The ODIs didn't make for a pretty viewing, did they?

Anderson was out of form and wickets were sub-continental in nature.

 

[Titan24]

You are arguing against yourself. If QDK, Faf, and ABD not being in the team is the reason that SA lost, then that fact weakens the argument that SA are "minnows".

When did I say I agree with their minnows tag? Its just the thread title and as you can read in my previous posts that they are not minnows at the moment.

 

[Princejain191]

Anderson was out of form and wickets were sub-continental in nature.

True, should have been a 4-0. Massively underachieved with a 2-2

 

[stevewittry]

Two reasons why I think in line -
1. Does SA have anyone barring ABD and to an extent Amla to carry their batting? No, as evident from the series. Rest of their line up though promising but not up to international standards.

2. When Sri Lanka or BD had similar results on their home turf, posters never hesitated in branding them as minnows.

Why have different yard sticks for different Sides?
BD is all about Shakib or none. Same goes for the saffers.

 

[Napa]

When did I say I agree with their minnows tag? Its just the thread title and as you can read in my previous posts that they are not minnows at the moment.

The OP said that SA are minnows. I was arguing that they are not. You replied to my post disagreeing with me.

 

[OoparCut]

OP has a historical trend of trolling Indians with his thread titles. And as usual, he's nearing a century. Well-played!

 

[Titan24]

The OP said that SA are minnows. I was arguing that they are not. You replied to my post disagreeing with me.

I disagreed only regarding your statement that similar team was playing 16 months ago against Aus. Where I mentioned that the highest run scorer and man of the series Russouw was missing along with QDK, ABD and FAF.

 

[Bewal Express]

South Africa won the only series that mattered and the one people care about. Rest will be forgotten in a week or 2.

 

[stevewittry]

OP has a historical trend of trolling Indians with his thread titles. And as usual, he's nearing a century. Well-played!

This was never intended to be a troll. I just wanted to apply the same measure applicable to teams such as BD and Sri Lanka for judging them to be minnows. Both these sides have a bench strength that's not international class. Same goes with the saffers who apart from ABD, FAF and to an extent Amla are not international class. Their bowling lacks variety and they have similar type of bowlers - a problem that restricts their ability to attack.

 

[jagatk]

Two reasons why I think in line -
1. Does SA have anyone barring ABD and to an extent Amla to carry their batting? No, as evident from the series. Rest of their line up though promising but not up to international standards.

2. When Sri Lanka or BD had similar results on their home turf, posters never hesitated in branding them as minnows.

Why have different yard sticks for different Sides?
BD is all about Shakib or none. Same goes for the saffers.

Are Aus and India minnows too, if the pitch has spin or swing or bounce the Aussie batting lineup barring smith will blown away in most tests. Take Kohli out of indian ODI team and we will be lucky to score 300 on most days.

Abd scored 211 against India in last test series while no 2 scorer for SA elgar scored 207. On the other hand kohli scored 286 for india and the next highest scorer for india was Pandya at a mighty 119.

 

[IndianFan2018]

This was never intended to be a troll. I just wanted to apply the same measure applicable to teams such as BD and Sri Lanka for judging them to be minnows. Both these sides have a bench strength that's not international class. Same goes with the saffers who apart from ABD, FAF and to an extent Amla are not international class. Their bowling lacks variety and they have similar type of bowlers - a problem that restricts their ability to attack.

Agree with this post, SA and so called his fans are depending ongoing annihilation of SA team in ODI and T20 saying first choice players are not playing, which means ZERO bench strength... why double standards ?

 

[hadi123]

To say they are minnows is OTT but I have to admit, they don't have good bench depth. Whenever they play weaker sides they get smashed. We saw that in the ODI series against India where they lost 5-1 and even last year in South Africa, a second string SA line up lost the series to Sri Lanka 2-1.

 

[jnaveen1980]

This was never intended to be a troll. I just wanted to apply the same measure applicable to teams such as BD and Sri Lanka for judging them to be minnows. Both these sides have a bench strength that's not international class. Same goes with the saffers who apart from ABD, FAF and to an extent Amla are not international class. Their bowling lacks variety and they have similar type of bowlers - a problem that restricts their ability to attack.

4 South Africans are in top 10 rankings in the batting. 2 in the bowling. Tahir no.1 bowler in the world. How can you say they are minnows. Just because India played him well doesn't mean everyone else will play him well. You don't call a team minnow based on how they do against another top team.


ICC Player Rankings
Rank
Name

BATTING

1 V. Kohli IND 876
2 A.B. de Villiers SA 872
3 D.A. Warner AUS 823
4 R.G. Sharma IND 816
5 Babar Azam PAK 813
6 Q. de Kock SA 808
6 J.E. Root ENG 808
8 K.S. Williamson NZ 777
9 F. du Plessis SA 773
10 H.M. Amla SA 766

BOWLING




Rating

1 Imran Tahir SA 743
2 T.A. Boult NZ 729
3 J.J. Bumrah IND 728
4 J.R. Hazlewood AUS 714
5 Hasan Ali PAK 711
6 K. Rabada SA 708
7 M.J. Santner NZ 662
8 M.A. Starc AUS 658
9 Rashid Khan AFG 649
10 A.R. Patel IND 643

 

[Chrish]

Yeah u put draw filter jus bcoz Pakistan able to get one in England.

It shouldn't be difficult to draw the series for a number 1 ranked team, one would think?

 

[The_Odd_One]

I think the next 1 year will determine the status of SA.

Amla, AB, Faf, and Tahir are all 30+ and clearly past their prime.

 

[in_cutter]

These days generally international teams are strong in their own backyard and they invariably win under home conditions. Coming to the on going series between India and South Africa, the later started as overwhelming favourites given their wonderful track record in home conditions.

However the anticlimactic end to the ODI series, wherein they were completely outplayed in all departments by a below par Indian side and their convincing loss in the first T20I just reinforces the point that their cricket has regressed tremendously in the past few years. Though they have been branded as the official chockers in tournaments, their bilateral series record is envious.

To watch them capitulate the way they did makes me believe that they are the new minnows in world cricket. Their victory in the test series had more to do with an even more poor display by the Indians, else they would have lost the test series too.

Thoughts?

Joke of a thread. You can’t be serious..

 

[Ab Fan]

Everyday we find new minnows on PP.

Not too far before we get to see two minnows playing against each other for no.1 ranking in the world.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

South Africa will never become minnow. I don't know if they can remain a top 3 team in both test and ODIs like they have been for the past 10 years. But never below top 6. One bad tour doesn't make them minnows, SAF will transitioning now just as Australia, SL and Pakistan have done recently.

 

[dravidthewall]

On the way to win third test ..and some people are saying they are minnows

 

[Ab Fan]

Well done Elgar, AB, Rabada, Morkel.

SA still has a very strong bowling attack- Vern, Rabada,Ngidi, Maharaj(Steyn returning in between).

Their batting is the issue as it is carried by only one player.

 

[CricCrazyNick]

On the way to win third test ..and some people are saying they are minnows

India Thrashed them in thr own den so Suddenly South Africa became minnow as per few experts...

 

[Dark Magician]

Well done Elgar, AB, Rabada, Morkel.

SA still has a very strong bowling attack- Vern, Rabada,Ngidi, Maharaj(Steyn returning in between).

Their batting is the issue as it is carried by only one player.

Colin Ackerman and Zubayr Hamza will surely boost that middle order when they get selected. I'm not sure if De Bruyn and Bavuma are the answer.

 

[dravidthewall]

No they are not....

 

[RainMan_]

South africa become minnow whenever they play against India since they usually rest all of their main players to keep them fit for much worthy opposition. Do victory against southafrica count?

 

[dravidthewall]

South africa become minnow whenever they play against India since they usually rest all of their main players to keep them fit for much worthy opposition. Do victory against southafrica count?

As per OP it doesnt count

 

[Ab Fan]

Minnows just defeated Australia in their favourite backyard outside their home.

While their batting is weak, they still have an excellent bowling attack.

Rabada is the greatest bowler in the world while Philander is great too (although slightly conditions dependent yet economical). Ngidi is a good prospect too.

 

[FreePalestine]

This really is a joke of a thread!

 

[BreadPakoda]

Mark my words, This thread will definitely be bumped when Pakistan tour South Africa.

Here you go my friend.

 

[Ab Fan]

It will not be all easy over the coming few years for South Africa.

Winning against Pakistan at home with no batsmen of equivalence of Inzamam, Younis and Moyo is no great achievement.Currently, SA are weak batters against spin and Philander is ineffective in Asia. That leaves us with Rabada only as Steyn is past as well.

Life will be tougher for SA when they face England, Australia and India at home and any of the seven team away from home. Luckily, they have played against India and Australia at home and don't have to deal with them for next two years at least.

 

[Ab Fan]

Yasir Shah's Pakistan are favourites against South Africa in UAE IMO. It will be a different ball game in UAE this time.

 

[Buffet]

Yasir Shah's Pakistan are favourites against South Africa in UAE IMO. It will be a different ball game in UAE this time.

Given SA's performance against SL, it will be an interesting series in UAE.

 

[topspin]

Yasir Shah's Pakistan are favourites against South Africa in UAE IMO. It will be a different ball game in UAE this time.

Given SA's performance against SL, it will be an interesting series in UAE.

Pakistan batsmen can't play left arm spin - Maharaj will run through the batting order and may well outperform Yasir Shah.

 

[The Viper]

Yasir Shah's Pakistan are favourites against South Africa in UAE IMO. It will be a different ball game in UAE this time.

They would still have a better chance than Pak in SAF.

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan batsmen can't play left arm spin - Maharaj will run through the batting order and may well outperform Yasir Shah.

Well, SA has to put some runs first. Issue is batting against spin. It will be bizarre if Micky/Sarf still play only one spinner in UAE. They have been doing this for a while.

 

[Ab Fan]

They would still have a better chance than Pak in SAF.

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] and [MENTION=147674]The Viper[/MENTION], as my good friend [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] already pointed out, SA batting inability against spin is what is the biggest issue with them. Yasir has it all to run through this batting lineup in Asia, who were taken apart by SL spinners.

Another issue is SA bowling attack in Asia. Philander is ineffective and Steyn as apparent is not the same, in UAE, he will find things tougher only. That leaves us with Rabada only. Maharaj is good but bowling when pacers have done great job and you have to play support role is different from when you have to be the lead man and take lots of wickets as visible in SL. He got lots of wickets but that's because others weren't getting any.

It's Rabada or dust for SA in Asia currently.

 

[Hasan123]

Any of our fans calling South Africa minnows have no shame. They are beating us black and blue. They may not win in the UAE but they wouldn't be getting beat like this.

 

[Ab Fan]

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] and [MENTION=147674]The Viper[/MENTION], as my good friend [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] already pointed out, SA batting inability against spin is what is the biggest issue with them. Yasir has it all to run through this batting lineup in Asia, who were taken apart by SL spinners.

Another issue is SA bowling attack in Asia. Philander is ineffective and Steyn as apparent is not the same, in UAE, he will find things tougher only. That leaves us with Rabada only. Maharaj is good but bowling when pacers have done great job and you have to play support role is different from when you have to be the lead man and take lots of wickets as visible in SL. He got lots of wickets but that's because others weren't getting any.

It's Rabada or dust for SA in Asia currently.

To Philander's credit, he keeps things really right and is hard to score off if he doesn't gets wickets. So, that definitely helps. We will get to see more of Ngidi going ahead.