Are South African pitches more challenging for subcontinental teams than Australian pitches today?

[Savak]

The pace and bounce on these wickets in the SA Pak Series in the first two test matches reminded me of watching the Australian wickets in the 80's and early 90's where almost all grounds used to have wickets with plenty of pace, bounce.

However Australian wickets now in comparison look a lot more comfortable for sub continent teams and don't carry the same pace and bounce as they did in the past in the 80's and 90's.

In contrast the South African wickets that we have seen today reminded me of the wickets you would see in Australia in the 80's and 90's.

The way Fakhre got out today was extremely embarrassing at best for an opening batsman and clearly showed that he just does not have the technique for these wickets. Azhar Ali got out in a shockingly rookie manner for someone who has played 60-70 test matches.

Watching the dismissals, it is pretty clear the players especially the batsmen needed a lot more time to acclimitize to these wickets. I won't be surprised to see just like in the past where the batsmen get used to the wickets in the ODI's and T-20's and put on a more improved performance with the bat.

Maybe in future the PCB might consider negotiating holding the test matches after the T-20's and ODI's along with having plenty of practice games

 

[Junaids]

They are identical to TRADITIONAL Australian Test wickets.

But the difference is that Australia now use Drop-In wickets for most home Tests, and by their nature they are slower and less bouncy.

Plus Cricket Australia a few years ago directed the curators to cut the grass shorter to make the matches go longer.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

They've always been the most difficult pitches for anyone. Similar to the rank turners in India.

 

[BreadPakoda]

No.

SA pitches are challenging for the batsmen but supportive for good bowlers. Overall Ozzie pitches are more challenging to sub continent teams as they do not provide much support to bowlers and sub continent batsmen fail against top quality Ozzie bowlers due to bounce/pressure.

 

[jnaveen1980]

SA pitches are faster pitches.

 

[giri26]

SA pitches are more difficult for subcontinent batters. If you check the stats, there wouldn't be too many players from Asia who have had good averages in SA. I can think of Sachin and Kohli on top of my head. Even players like Dravid and Sangakkara have had poor record there. SA pitches combine bounce and movement together which causes issues for batters from Asia.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Of course batting in SA is much, much harder. Australia has always been easy for Indian batsmen, bounce or not. Even Sehwag has good record in Aus. If you can survive 15 overs in Aus you are bound to score a hundred.

 

[jnaveen1980]

South African fast pitches + Very high quality bowlers over the years. That is why it is difficult there. Imagine SA is Bangladesh's home lol. Every body would be feasting there.

 

[rhony]

SA is a very tough place to bat. Aussie pitches were very flat in the last few years but have been sportive this year in the India series. I'd say pitches in general have been sportive this year all around the world.

 

[JattMaula]

That has always been the case. At least since I have been watching/following tests.

 

[Sin Nombre]

Kind of obvious - most Asian greats have failed in SA. Most of them have succeeded in Aus.

In SA



In Aus

 

[Sin Nombre]

Amongst Asian greats, only Kohli and Sachin have succeeded in SA. VVS has done ok.

Every Indian great has done well in Australia as have most SL ones. Only failures have been the Pakistanis in Miandad and Inzy and Mahela for SL.


To sum up,

For Indians and Sri Lankans, SA is much harder than Australia. Only all time top 10 bats in Kohli and Sachin have succeeded.

For Pakistanis, both SA and Australia are very hard.


Looking at these stats, why is Mahela considered to be in the same bracket as VVS and Inzy? Obviously a much worse player in alien conditions.

 

[Enforcer]

It is because there is sideway movements plus bounce in South Africa, while in Australia you have only to counter bounce.

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

Apart from Sachin and Kohli, no Asian batsmen have found great success in SA. Much harder.

 

[Ab Fan]

It is because there is sideway movements plus bounce in South Africa, while in Australia you have only to counter bounce.

Also the bounce is uneven as well in SA.

 

[WengerOut]

People are affected by recency here. Until 10 odd years ago, before the drop in wickets, AUS wickets were more difficult to get runs. Relentless bowling by ATG bowling backed by gun batting. Add to all these, large playing grounds.

 

[Swashbuckler]

SA doctor their pitches to a great extent when Asian teams tour, hence more difficult. When teams like England or Australia tour they lay flat roads.

 

[Sachin136]

Yes. Though it is still a lot harder to win in Australia.

 

[IndianHero]

Yes SA pitches are much tougher to bat on ! Reason is simple... u can see how the world class batting unit like pakistan struggles a lot ,, that explains a lot of how tougher it is out there.. Not to mention the world class bowling unit pakistan has struggles a lot there too..

where as Australia is very very easy as even India is playing well but irony is every time pakistan got white washed in Australia since 90s till date .. Ian chappell once said not to invite pakistan as well..

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not really, but point must be noted that the Indian batting line up struggled big time in South Africa as well. A weak **** poor Pakistan batting line up reached 400 plus runs in Australia twice and 300 plus runs and 250 runs in Australia in 2017. The argument has grounds

I would put that down to utter disregard for practice match. they said "We don't need practice match" Besides horrible team selection. It is tough place to bat because they always have excellent fast bowlers Donald, Schultz, Pringle, Fanie Devilliers, McMillan, Pollock, Ntini, Steyn, Rabda, Vernon now they have Olivier. Aussies did not struggle for two reasons. One they were rarely offered bowling track as they were no.1 side with great bowlers. Same Australian side got bowled out for 47 runs once the greats left. I still remember how RP singh destroyed SOuth African line up in the T20. They hardly could touch the ball. Sreesanth had a couple of good matches. Under right conditions no team can do well there not even SOuth Africa except may be some great batsmen.

 

[Tusker]

Not really, but point must be noted that the Indian batting line up struggled big time in South Africa as well. A weak **** poor Pakistan batting line up reached 400 plus runs in Australia twice and 300 plus runs and 250 runs in Australia in 2017. The argument has grounds

You have to look at it in the context of the game ... SA also did not post big scores in those matches in difficult batting conditions.

Anyhow here is the Stat ( IND,PAK,SL in SA/AUS ) W/L ratio for AUS in AUS is 5.8 and SA in SA is 5.7

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=3;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team

But once you remove India out of the group this is what PAK and SL have managed in AUS and SA

Won a grand total of 4 matches in 35 attempts. The W/L ratio for AUS against these two teams jumps to 8.7

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=3;team_view=bowl;template=results;type=team


AUS by faar is the hardest place to win for Asian teams and India is the only team that has consistently competed well in AUS.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Sa pitches are tough but Pak losing has got nothing to do with it. Pak lost 0-3 and 0-2 in Aus and NZ and will be blanked 0-3 again in SA.

Leave winning, when was the last time Pak drew a match in SA/ Aus?

 

[Sin Nombre]

Pakistan is on a
6 match losing streak in SA
12 match losing streak in Australia.


As the stats showed previously, Pakistani batsmen are complete muppets in both Australian and South African conditions.

 

[fitCricFan]

A good batsman should be able to adjust and handle any type of pitch, some more and some less gracefully. Thats what separates professional's from club cricketers.

 

[jnaveen1980]

A good batsman should be able to adjust and handle any type of pitch, some more and some less gracefully. Thats what separates professional's from club cricketers.

No. Not on all surfaces. Sreesanth bundled SA all out for 84 runs there. SA has two extremes. Either you can pile up a lot of runs in ODI or blow teams away very quickly.

 

[latecut]

Stop hiding behind the generic term "subcontinental" teams. There is vast difference is the quality of players among the four "subcontinental" cricket teams as well as the results they have achieved in SENA countries.

 

[MenInG]

KP asking if this pitch is a fair pitch?

Seems Sarfaraz talked to umpires about pitch but not clear.

 

[ILcricket]

SA are definitely more challenging . [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] , is Sarfaraz actually complaining about a strip on which a side is currently 319/5 ? This if true is incredible !

 

[MenInG]

SA are definitely more challenging . [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] , is Sarfaraz actually complaining about a strip on which a side is currently 319/5 ? This if true is incredible !

not sure but the comms were suggesting that.

 

[ILcricket]

not sure but the comms were suggesting that.

I see , i am on mute . Incidentally the recent Perth pitch was far more volatile than this one .