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Are we seeing the demise of Pakistan's pace-bowling?

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Number of wickets taken by Pakistani bowlers in the first 10 overs of an innings in their last 10 completed ODIs:<br><br>0<br>0<br>0<br>0<br>2<br>0<br>0<br>1<br>2<br>1<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ENGvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ENGvPAK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1128353433503903745?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
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No Surprise, has been the story for a long while now. Someone has to be held accountable for this.
 
Can't blame them for today, the pitch is horrible. On top of that a dropped catch and Haris not even trying to catch one. Ridiculous pitch + poor fielding. Bowlers can't do much.
 
We have completely lost the art of new ball bowling .. also known as the conventional swing bowling.. I don’t know why.. it’s absolutely mind boggling!
 
Azhar Mehmood needs to be sacked. It's amazing how little criticism he gets despite zero result.
 
Flat, lifeless, lacking ideas and lacking energy and looking so short of confidence.
 
Not only all our bowlers are mediocre but also don’t have any brain
 
MIG, most teams have very good openers or top orders in recent times.
Good:
Eng: Roy/Baristow/Hales/Root/Morgan
Ind: Rohit/Dhawan/Virat/
NZ: Guptil/Nichols/Williamson/Taylor
Aus: Finch/Warner/Khawaja/Smith
SA: Markham/Amla/du Plessie
+++
Not bad:
BD: Tamim/Soumya/Shakib
WI: Hope/Gayle/Hetmyer.

Not easy to get wickets if there is no assistance from the pitch.
 
BD-fan said:
MIG, most teams have very good openers or top orders in recent times.
Good:
Eng: Roy/Baristow/Hales/Root/Morgan
Ind: Rohit/Dhawan/Virat/
NZ: Guptil/Nichols/Williamson/Taylor
Aus: Finch/Warner/Khawaja/Smith
SA: Markham/Amla/du Plessie
+++
Not bad:
BD: Tamim/Soumya/Shakib
WI: Hope/Gayle/Hetmyer.

Not easy to get wickets if there is no assistance from the pitch.
Click to expand...

You really need to make the most of the new ball. England pacers struggled as well today but Woakes produced a couple of beauties in the early overs to get two key wickets.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Part of the problem is when fans blame the coach when in reality the bowlers haven't got a clue.
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He was hired to do a job, and if he can't produce the desired results, then he needs to go. Simple as that.

The likes of Arthur and Flower gets castigated on a regular basis but Azhar seems to avoid any criticism for the most part, even though our pace bowling has been ordinary for quite a while now.
 
Conditions are ridiculously in favour of batsmen and England have an outrageously good lineup . They can do this to anyone.
 
A pathetic bowling display. Azhar hasn't developed these. Sarfraz and Mickey plans aren't clear enough.
 
Red Devil said:
He was hired to do a job, and if he can't produce the desired results, then he needs to go. Simple as that.

The likes of Arthur and Flower gets castigated on a regular basis but Azhar seems to avoid any criticism for the most part, even though our pace bowling has been ordinary for quite a while now.
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Fine, he may well be a poor coach, but hiring a new one isn't going to turn limited bowlers into superstars, just as long as fans are aware of that. These pitches are flat, you need something a bit more than a bunch of one paced medium fast bowlers to threaten batsmen. I have called for Wahab to be selected just for that reason. Not that I think he's a great bowler, just to give us a genuine pace alternative to an otherwise toothless attack.
 
Leave the bowling alone.
On these pitches it's all about containment
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Fine, he may well be a poor coach, but hiring a new one isn't going to turn limited bowlers into superstars, just as long as fans are aware of that. These pitches are flat, you need something a bit more than a bunch of one paced medium fast bowlers to threaten batsmen. I have called for Wahab to be selected just for that reason. Not that I think he's a great bowler, just to give us a genuine pace alternative to an otherwise toothless attack.
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Agree with you on that, I also wanted Wahab in the WC squad. You need a bit of X factor to get wickets on these type of surfaces.
 
Red Devil said:
Agree with you on that, I also wanted Wahab in the WC squad. You need a bit of X factor to get wickets on these type of surfaces.
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Agreed, Amir and Wahab would have been deadly alongside Rauf on these wickets, they might not have pick more wickets but sure they would have been more economical
 
Pak think tank has missed the point by selecting wrong horses for courses, the current bowlers would have been ideal on typical English surface but not on these pitches
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
So where is the containment?
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You can't contain a sub par total. This is a 400+ pitch. I knew something was shady with the way our team batting so well. It was just too good to be true. I know for our batting this is a big achievement, to score back to back 350+, but as you can see it doesnt seem good enough for these pitches

They're chasing this total like a t20.
 
muhammad saad said:
Agreed, Amir and Wahab would have been deadly alongside Rauf on these wickets, they might not have pick more wickets but sure they would have been more economical
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Wahab the guy who conceded 110 in 10 overs bowling in England? You mean that deadly guy?
 
Lol if IK can sack Asad Umar for not having answers to Pakistan's economic problems why cant Azhar Mahmood be held to account for this bowling display?
 
No better word then yours to describe Pakistan team as whole. They are worth a garbage don't blame pitch or short boundaries. I can bet if India or For the matter Australia play on the same ground you will see the difference. Pakistani cricket is finished unless drastic step is not taken. Body language, Team selection Bowling, Fielding you name it and you find lacking in this Pakistani team. I heard on PTV Analysis host was literally begging please win us a game team Pakistan. They don't remember when they won a ODI series against big team.
 
Its been like that for atleast 5 years now, if not more.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Everyone keeps mentioning that 110 conceded, as if he conceded it every game. He won a few matches as well in his time.
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Actually he didn't win you any ODI since that performance in World cup 2015 against Watson.
 
The fast bowlers are trying the old fashioned method on such pitches you have to think out of the box make batsman play false shots hopefully they will learn a few lessons after this series.
 
Our fast bowling was finished a decade ago. The Champions Trophy was just an anomaly.
 
I fully agree with you. Even Mickeys days are numbered. In his tenure this team hasn't progress in LOI format. Fitness has atlease not changed the fortune. See the body lang of the team it seems they are there to make numbers. Somebody is forcing them to play absolutely not intend to play and win.
 
waleed88 said:
Actually he didn't win you any ODI since that performance in World cup 2015 against Watson.
Click to expand...

I am basing my opinion on the PSL games where he won quite a few, and looked a lot more dangerous than any of the current Pakistan pacers.
 
waleed88 said:
Wahab the guy who conceded 110 in 10 overs bowling in England? You mean that deadly guy?
Click to expand...
Yea, in one match.. He has also been effective getting breakthroughs on flat phattas with his pace.

Hes not reliable, but his form can be mercurial.. On his day, hes our best bowler quite easily.. Not to mention this last PSL is the best version that ive seen of him.. Fitness wise, pace wise, accuracy wise.

This trundler attack isnt going to get us anywhere. I dont know how more obvious that can possibly be.
 
130 required of 132 deliveries... RRR of under 6 :)))

Absolute decimation
 
Grunge101 said:
Yea, in one match.. He has also been effective getting breakthroughs on flat phattas with his pace.

Hes not reliable, but his form can be mercurial.. On his day, hes our best bowler quite easily.. Not to mention this last PSL is the best version that ive seen of him.. Fitness wise, pace wise, accuracy wise.

This trundler attack isnt going to get us anywhere. I dont know how more obvious that can possibly be.
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No honey he has also conceded 90+ runs in a match against South Africa..

This guy is on the highest runs conceded by a bowler in an ODI match list 3 times..
 
shaz72 said:
I fully agree with you. Even Mickeys days are numbered. In his tenure this team hasn't progress in LOI format. Fitness has atlease not changed the fortune. See the body lang of the team it seems they are there to make numbers. Somebody is forcing them to play absolutely not intend to play and win.
Click to expand...

To be honest, even fitness has blown hot and cold. Player look lean in one series and then look like they have let themselves go in the next series. This is ultimately an individual responsibility, the coaching staff can't go after them like kids all the time.
 
Its a very small ground and very flat.

I remember being at Bristol and Afridi hit a six which flew out of Bristol. :afridi
 
Grunge101 said:
Yea, in one match.. He has also been effective getting breakthroughs on flat phattas with his pace.

Hes not reliable, but his form can be mercurial.. On his day, hes our best bowler quite easily.. Not to mention this last PSL is the best version that ive seen of him.. Fitness wise, pace wise, accuracy wise.

This trundler attack isnt going to get us anywhere. I dont know how more obvious that can possibly be.
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Last time he bowled in England....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...n-4th-match-group-b-icc-champions-trophy-2017
 
Mueez said:
This made me laugh so hard... :)))

And that Afridi smiley just killed it :)))
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Here you go bro, 7.40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np94OMFJ2Pg

The commentary.

"5.5
6
Broad to Shahid Afridi, SIX runs, yikes! He's got hold of this one! Afridi swings this miles into the stand for six - in fact, out of the ground and clattering into the buildings on the street"

It was brutal, the video doesn't do it justice. We tried to find the ball after on the motorway :)))
 
What do you expect when you have Faheem opening the bowling. Also doesn't help that the ball doesn't swing anymore and there's no seam for bowlers. Bowling is a problem for almost every country.
 
The problem isnt our bowlers dont have plan b, c or d

If line and length isnt working and bairstow is pulling everything to the leg why dont they just go wide yorkers? To batsmen like roy who likes pace bowl 3-4 slower balls an over

Try things if plan A isnt working dont just keep doing the same unsuccessful thing over and over again
 
Fine-leg up, bowl down the leg-side and it's 4

No cover on the off-side boundary so they bowl wide of the off stump and it's 4

Mid off is up, so bowl full-length outside the off stump and git hit over long off.

These are basics that no captain or bowling coach can fix.
 
I think England is going to have another very hot summer.

Not all grounds will be as small as Bristol and the pitches will be dry and slowish as the tournament progresses.

I am confident Pak bowlers will find plenty of reserve and if we our spinners bowl well, the attack is more than enough to take on any batting side.

I woudln't judge the last two ODI's as its early in the season and England are by far the most dangerous batting line up in world cricket.
 
KingKhanWC said:
I think England is going to have another very hot summer.

Not all grounds will be as small as Bristol and the pitches will be dry and slowish as the tournament progresses.

I am confident Pak bowlers will find plenty of reserve and if we our spinners bowl well, the attack is more than enough to take on any batting side.

I woudln't judge the last two ODI's as its early in the season and England are by far the most dangerous batting line up in world cricket.
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We don't have any spinners.
 
We are actually seeing the demise of English pitches, what on earth have they prepared for the World Cup? 350 seems 250.

This is terrible for bowlers and for competition.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan's bowling in the last 8 ODIs:<br><br>359/4 in 44.5 overs (lost)<br>373/3 in 50 overs (lost)<br>327/7 in 50 overs (lost)<br>277/7 in 50 overs (lost)<br>266/6 in 50 overs )lost)<br>285/2 in 47.5 overs (lost)<br>281/2 in 49 overs (lost)<br>241/3 in 40 overs (lost)<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1128392566016282625?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Cpt. Rishwat said:
We don't have any spinners.
Click to expand...

I know, huge mistake by the selectors. Forget today , spin will play a massive part in this world cup and we have to hope Shadab and Imam stay fit and are on form.

I would like to see Hafeez, Haris and Malik try to get through at least 6 overs between them but not sure if they can bowl decently at present.
 
Its a funny era as well, kind of, as Shaheen is looking toothless going into the future despite being touted as the next big thing. I mean in the current era , we will have temporary good bowlers (especially the ones with normal kind of bowling actions) in short bursts of time, finding consistency is going to be a big challenge. Hasan Ali was great in the start, but is in downward spiral for some matches now. I think bowlers with bowling actions like Bumrah and Shinwari are gonna succeed in this era because of the angles they create during their bowling actions, especially in the ODI format.

And ridiculously Shinwari isnt even in the 17 men squad, lol.
 
Last edited:
Not even conventional swing! Wrist positions, distance from the wickets, run up etc nothing seems to be working.

The last talent was Asif since then nothing. No talent at all.
 
Our fast bowling is currently at club level. So many loose balls it’s a surprise England took so long to overhaul the total.

The first thing we need to address is that a couple of good PSL’s don’t make somebody a good ODI bowler automatically. Shaheen needs time to learn his craft and immediately be the no 1 bowler for us until he can bowl tight and swing it both ways.

We need a very good spinner. Often taking pace off the ball helps with the run rate but imad is just very predictable right now and then spin options are few and far between. I’m not sure if shadab or hafeez/Malik are the answers either.

But yes pace bowling right now is dire.
 
To be really frank Pakistan bowling attack in ODI format has been struggling for a while. The stats thread on the bowling attack is already there. There should not be any surprise in that. The problem is not that England chased 359, it is the ease with which they did that. Only lost 4 wickets and did it in 44.5. There was no struggle and even if Pakistan had scored another 30 more runs, they would have chased it down. That is how bad the bowling was. Flat pitch, brilliant batting and poor bowling led to a easy crushing win for England.
 
Our bowlers lack basic match and pitch awareness. They look like 2 year olds who need to be guided after each ball. Our players lack cricketing IQ, which is far worse than lacking skill.
 
Basically bowlers lack.common bowling sense. 130kph bowlers with no variations up their sleeve playing on a flat track. What else do you expect. The only thing these guys know is to run and to throw the bowl. Lack of experience and match awareness will haunt pakistan in this hoŕror show that we'll witness for the next 6 weeks or so. Aamir may have been wicketless but can atleast help you in containing runs. Hasnain will be slaughtered in these conditions so i dont actually see thr point of his x factor. As bad as it may sound, aamir might still play even without featuring in the eng series. I would still retain junaid. Faheem, shaheen, hasan are under the pump. Their below avg performance has been on for quite some time.
 
I just realized that as a Pakistani team supporter, these performances hurt more than our typical batting collapses . .
I think we're too used to our batting being horrible and our bowling saving the day or putting up a fight . . .

The last 2 games have put Pakistani cricket fans in an awkward position . . we've put 350+ runs on the board . . we should be happy with that right? But, I think we'd rather take a 270 280 and give the other team a tough time with our bowling . .

Even 2015 world cup when we played with Rahat Ali, Wahab, Sohail Khan, etc. we only reached the QF cuz of our bowling . .

Bowling has been our pride . . when nothing else is going well, bowling bails us out . . which is why the last 2 ODIs and the last year in general has just been sad and frustrating to watch
 
NauV said:
I just realized that as a Pakistani team supporter, these performances hurt more than our typical batting collapses . .
I think we're too used to our batting being horrible and our bowling saving the day or putting up a fight . . .

The last 2 games have put Pakistani cricket fans in an awkward position . . we've put 350+ runs on the board . . we should be happy with that right? But, I think we'd rather take a 270 280 and give the other team a tough time with our bowling . .

Even 2015 world cup when we played with Rahat Ali, Wahab, Sohail Khan, etc. we only reached the QF cuz of our bowling . .

Bowling has been our pride . . when nothing else is going well, bowling bails us out . . which is why the last 2 ODIs and the last year in general has just been sad and frustrating to watch
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Yes you've summed it up correctly. We as a nation take pride in our bowling. We all have preferences but when you as a nation has produced legends. It hurts to see that our bowling was taken apart just like that without a sweat being broken. Lack of leadership, wrong tactics, unjust team selection et al make this even worse
 
Although our bowling attack has become weaker over the past year or so; people don’t realise that England hardly ever produce the pitches they use to in 2010.

Last summer it was extremely hot in England and the grass had been heavily burnt - so having a flat pitch and such conditions makes it extremely difficult for bowlers.
 
Even as an Indian I feel sad seeing the current state of affairs ... I still enjoy watching YouTube videos of Shoaib, waqar, Wasim and to see the current lot it's sad.. I know those three were once in a lifetime type bowlers and we might not see such bowlers ever again but your current lot makes Indian bowlers of 90s look greats.
 
Let's give flat pitches excuse a rest. Barring one game, this bowling unit failed to dominate a weak SA batting which was completely annihilated by India.

These were their scores:

1st OD1: 266/2
2nd ODI: 207/5
3rd OD: 187/2
4th ODI: 164
5th ODI: 241/3

If tomorrow, England chase 350 against any of India, Australia, South Africa, or New Zealand, they will have to work very hard to reach that total. On same pitches, Trent Boult will remove both the openers cheaply. The problem is not the flat pitches but the lack of quality.
 
Abdullah said:
It's got chickenpox
Click to expand...

It got chickenpox and broke it's finger in the PSL.

The problem is we experiment too much. We don't stick with the bowlers that did well for us in the past.Trying out new bowlers is great but if it ain't broke don't fix it.
 
aloo paratha said:
What do you expect when you have Faheem opening the bowling. Also doesn't help that the ball doesn't swing anymore and there's no seam for bowlers. Bowling is a problem for almost every country.
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Pretty much this.
England have brutalised everybody that has come to these shores from 2016 onwards.
You need mystery spin
 
Get over it

This was Pakistan’s problem in 2015 before we magically had the quartet of Wahab, rahat, Sohail khan etc
Since then sohail khan plays 5 a side beach cricket
Rahat Ali is playing Ramadan tournaments
And wahab riaz still watches highlights of his duel with Shane Watson


You can’t always beat the bat
Pakistan need to let this obsession go with being the Croatia of world cricket
The closest we have to Modric is shoaib malik
 
The_Odd_One said:
Let's give flat pitches excuse a rest. Barring one game, this bowling unit failed to dominate a weak SA batting which was completely annihilated by India.

These were their scores:

1st OD1: 266/2
2nd ODI: 207/5
3rd OD: 187/2
4th ODI: 164
5th ODI: 241/3

If tomorrow, England chase 350 against any of India, Australia, South Africa, or New Zealand, they will have to work very hard to reach that total. On same pitches, Trent Boult will remove both the openers cheaply. The problem is not the flat pitches but the lack of quality.
Click to expand...

Trent boult was bowling when nz conceded 400 against eng. He also conceded 70+ twice against pak in the UAE.
 
Ajmal and Hafeez cheating was hiding this for a while.

We finally had a ray of hope in Hasan Ali during the CT, but it has stalled now and could prove to be a fallacy.
 
Havent gone through any of the comments here. As an Indian, my perception about Pakistan team in general and fast bowling -
There just seems to be too much happening with Pakistan team and management. No focussed approach. Just too many people involved, without being clear about their job role. Too many people stepping on each others toes, just too much happening. Compare this with Indian team. A very focussed approach. People are clear what their roles are, even mediocre players are treated accordingly. ( Not saying they are perfect, but the planning is immaculate )

About fast bowlers - No role models to look upto. All the Pakistani former players seem to be blood thirsty against each other. Players making accusations, poisonous remarks about each other. Poor captaincy and handling of fast bowlers. A youngster like Shaheen needs someone who understands him. He is growing up. Its not just cricket, someone needs to understand how to motivate him. Sadly, I dont think theres anyone in Pakistan cricket equipped to handle such nitty gritties.
 
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