Hasan Ali like the recent trend has gone backwards. He was one of the best bowlers in the world but his average has continued to regress in ODIs. He isn't picking any wickets over the last year or so, which can be seen in his stats.
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Are we seeing the demise of Pakistan's pace-bowling?
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Hasan Ali like the recent trend has gone backwards. He was one of the best bowlers in the world but his average has continued to regress in ODIs. He isn't picking any wickets over the last year or so, which can be seen in his stats.
Mueez
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Thoughts?
With the emergence of these promising youngsters:
- Shaheen Shah Afridi
- Muhammad Hasnain
- Haris Rauf
- Naseem Shah
- Muhammad Musa
Our fast-bowling legacy is in safe hands, one should think.
I hope these bowlers can fulfill their potential and make their country proud.
With the emergence of these promising youngsters:
- Shaheen Shah Afridi
- Muhammad Hasnain
- Haris Rauf
- Naseem Shah
- Muhammad Musa
Our fast-bowling legacy is in safe hands, one should think.
I hope these bowlers can fulfill their potential and make their country proud.
freezerburn
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not too impressed with Rauf. Good pace but little control
Husnain worries me with his mixed action, but solid potential
shah is most impressive, beautiful action and good control
afridi - his performance speaks for itself. Hope he stays injury free
Musa - Another Shinwari in the making
Mueez
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I find Naseem Shah the most exciting prospect along with SSA amd Hasnain.
I see them bowling out oppositions for cheap scores...
Majid Khan
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Not impressed with the standard of pace bowling in Pakistan to be honest, what do they offer? They are not special in pace, they can’t get the basics right and bowl to a consistent line or length, they can’t bowl Yorkers when the tailenders are in, they can’t bowl targeted bouncers to exploit batsmen who struggle with short pitched bowling and they bowl two long hops every over for free.
In between all that rubbish they get the occasional wicket taking delivery that gets batsmen out.. but it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a spell of fast bowling by a Pakistani speedster against a strong team where he looked like ripping apart a batting line up.
Maybe Asif’s spell v India? That spell where the great Tendulkar was on his knees even, how long ago was that ..
In between all that rubbish they get the occasional wicket taking delivery that gets batsmen out.. but it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a spell of fast bowling by a Pakistani speedster against a strong team where he looked like ripping apart a batting line up.
Maybe Asif’s spell v India? That spell where the great Tendulkar was on his knees even, how long ago was that ..
Shaheen and Naseem are tier A potential. Arshad and Hasnain are wild cards with right handling can be tier A or can just disappear without anyone noticing them. Rauf is tier B talent s while Musa i think will struggle to reach international standard
Rellu_Katta
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lol writing Harris Rauf off after 1st season of PSL that too coming from a "Tappiya" background? lol ... unless ur a jotshi who can predict where i can find needle in a hay stack, your quotes should be in the bin without a second glance ...
Harris, if injury free would be in the team in next year ... he has pace and aggression , action that helps reverse and a big heart... he will come good ...
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Waqar Younis "Pakistan has always been blessed with good fast-bowlers and we have always had someone there to give us hope in the pace-bowling department. It's a very exciting time when I look at the fast-bowling talent currently available" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/HjAAj1nLzm">pic.twitter.com/HjAAj1nLzm</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1212748729356292096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 2, 2020</a></blockquote>
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Ronaldo7
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2018 was such a depressing year for us fast bowling wise. I wouldn't look at the Eng series too much, the pitches were just atrocious. Also it looks like Shaheen has matured a bit and our fast bowling attack is looking good now thankfully.
Rayyman
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Thunderbolt14
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Pathetic bowling attack
Chin up. Most countries don’t produce that many good second string lineups. An A class bowler is produced once every 10 years. We have a tendency to waste them.
Our bowling attack in New Zealand during this series, if we managed everyone properly, would have been Asif, Amir, Shaheen, and Abbas.
We will continue producing talent at a pace similar or a little faster to other countries, the real question is how they are developed. Even Naseem, with another 3 years under his belt, will be very good despite the bad first day he is currently having.
omairsiddiqui
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Are we watching the same game? The bowlers today have bowled as well as one could have expected from any top side. Doosri team bhi khelne aayi hai. The batsmen have just been brilliant. Please stop criticizing your own all the time and appreciate the opposition too.
Mujtaba2900
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Finally someone who is watching the same match as me .
They were on target from the get go .
Naseem shah gave it away.
But others kept it tight and made the kiwi's work hard for the runs
PP are bunch of 14 year olds with beliefs of fairy tales
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jeeteshssaxena
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Shaheen Shah to the rescue!
shariqnoor
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The demise hasn't happened now. It happened in 2010 when Asif and Amir got banned. After those two, there's not been a single great fast bowler from Pakistan. Shaheen is world class with the new ball but becomes bang average with the old ball.
It's laughable that when we talk about replacing Abbas, Shaheen, the talk is about guys like Sameen Gul. Mohammad Hasnain, Hasan Ali, Akif Javed.
It's laughable that when we talk about replacing Abbas, Shaheen, the talk is about guys like Sameen Gul. Mohammad Hasnain, Hasan Ali, Akif Javed.
Hasan123
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We haven't produced a fast bowler who has gotten 200 test wickets for years. It's a myth that we are the land of fast bowling. Look at our recent fast bowling performances in SENA.
Rana
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More plastic in these So called fan’s reactions than Kim K’s plastic personage mass
KingOfPakBreakfast
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Our problem hasn't been in talented fast bowlers, but rather in how we develop them. For everybody unloading on Naseem, this is a kid who learning on the job at the highest level, in the most testing format. It's important for Saqlain and Misbah to monitor the development of all young quicks and ensure that they get opportunities in domestic, to help develop their skills.
Naseem specifically looks a shadow of the confident young lad who bowled to that Australia A side a year ago right after his mum's passing, who Brett Lee (I think) was really purring about on commentary. That type of potential and ability doesn't disappear.
InshAllah I hope that Naseem improves, once he gets a couple of seasons of QEA and dedicated coaching.
Naseem specifically looks a shadow of the confident young lad who bowled to that Australia A side a year ago right after his mum's passing, who Brett Lee (I think) was really purring about on commentary. That type of potential and ability doesn't disappear.
InshAllah I hope that Naseem improves, once he gets a couple of seasons of QEA and dedicated coaching.
in_cutter
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Agree & disagree. Talent is defo there.
But how different is the system now compared to the days of Wasim/Waqar? What development phase did they go through?
IMO, over coaching could be the issue.
Geil
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Pakistan certainly has the pace bowler"s who can be developed to be a top quality International bowlers, what we are seeing now is the demise that Pak has been experiencing since 2000"s is poor coaching, selectors and generally the people who make the PAK team culture and management are the one to blame here who have failed to build past promising bowlers like Sami,Gul,Asif,shabbir ahmed,Wahab Riaz,Junaid khan,Rahat Ali into a quality International bowlers
Pak did had lot of potential promising pacers since 2000"s but the culture or atmosphere or whatever u call it is the one to blame
Every now and then a top cricketing team produces a cricketer or certain cricketers who brings a certain culture into the team which suits them with the current modern day cricket which PAK doesn't have IMO which is the reason for not only demise in pace bowling but also to significantly the teams performance in the past two decades which have been nothing but inconsistent
Pak did had lot of potential promising pacers since 2000"s but the culture or atmosphere or whatever u call it is the one to blame
Every now and then a top cricketing team produces a cricketer or certain cricketers who brings a certain culture into the team which suits them with the current modern day cricket which PAK doesn't have IMO which is the reason for not only demise in pace bowling but also to significantly the teams performance in the past two decades which have been nothing but inconsistent
Rana
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Pakistan cricket’s pace bowlers have demised whereas South Africa have gone for 220-3 in 54 overs against Sri Lanka at home
But no one cares because ‘South Africa will remain a force’.
But no one cares because ‘South Africa will remain a force’.
shah_1
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A lot of young fast bowlers are not interested in longer format. They want to play white ball cricket because it is easy, flat pitches so learn to bowl 140+, slower balls, yorkers and bouncers.
Bowling in test cricket is an ART, it requires discipline, skills needed to seam/swing, fitness and high bowling IQ.
cricketfan11
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Answer is simple.
For fast bowlers to excel in Test cricket they need to think Test cricket, build Test cricket level fitness.
The demise happened when league cricket became popular. There's your problem.
Other cricket boards where management is more effective, have managed this issue better.
For fast bowlers to excel in Test cricket they need to think Test cricket, build Test cricket level fitness.
The demise happened when league cricket became popular. There's your problem.
Other cricket boards where management is more effective, have managed this issue better.
Rana
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South Africa bowling with Nortje, Ngidi, Sipmala and another pace bowler...plus Mahraj.
They have been beaten to a pulp here by Chandimal and Silva earlier. This is on the same day where Pakistan kept NZ at below 2.0 rr for the vast majority of the day and were facing a severe grind by arguably their greatest ever middle order batsmen.
They have been beaten to a pulp here by Chandimal and Silva earlier. This is on the same day where Pakistan kept NZ at below 2.0 rr for the vast majority of the day and were facing a severe grind by arguably their greatest ever middle order batsmen.
ataullah
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Plenty of fast bowlers but they need to give priority to first class cricket rather than PSL and white ball cricket. Also play a few seasons of domestic and for Shaheens before national team
Are you so comfortable with mediocrity. Your so called strike bowler is not taking wickets with the new ball. Goes missing after first spell. Won’t field or catch properly. How long can the obvious be ignored. He is military medium that keepers have to stand up to push the batsman back, because a bouncer from him we be a lollipop for the batsman
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Thunderbolt14
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Wasim and Waqar:
A) exceptionally talented, not fair to compare Naseem to them. For reference, Shoaib Akhtar, another exceptional talent, learned his craft in first class
B) still had to learn on the job. Imran Khan standing at mid on dictating to them exactly what to bowl. No such figure currently present in the team for Naseem.
C) debuted in an era where lack of understanding of reverse swing gave them an extra edge
D) had more experienced bowlers there to split the wickets between them, as opposed to an ineffective Abbas and... Faheem Ashraf
There is no such thing as over coaching - Naseem looks out of rhythm returning from his injury, otherwise he remains an essential talent we must continue to groom. However, Naseem might need to bowl long spells to generate pace consistently at the right lines and lengths as well as learn to read and set up batsmen. Yes, he can learn this in international cricket, but he would learn quicker through an acceleration program of 10 first class matches in 2 months rather than 5 Tests a year.
hitthestump
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Perhaps do a bit of research before you post drivel. Abbas has 80 wickets at 21.70 after 21 test matches. If that isn't strike bowler enough for you then please lend us the great VRV Singh (or whoever your fast bowling legends are????) so they can coach him on how it's done.
Thunderbolt14
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How often do most countries produce a Shaheen level bowler? Like actually speaking?
If we look at Pakistan’s production of top class talents, we have produced enough to consistently have an S class bowling lineup.
Asif
Amir
Shaheen
Abbas
This would be our “current” 4 pacer bowling lineup if we were pretty much any other country and didn’t have to deal with fixing on a day to day basis.
Look what happened to Australia’s batting lineup when Smith and Warner got banned. You can’t just say it’s the death of Aussie batting because you don’t have an S class batsman to replace Smith! If you did, they’d be playing already!
Titan24
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This and not to forget no test cricket at home in last decade while playing on slow, low wickets of UAE which is a huge thing which people forget when talking about Pak pace bowling. Majority of the pacers currently around get those stats and confidence rolling by home performances.
shah_1
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Yes it has gone to pretty low level
We have Shaheen only, and the difference between him and others is massive. It is a depth of fast bowling talent in test cricket that is really poor. In 90s bowler like Faheem, Aiaz Cheema, Musa Khan, Imran Khan Snr, Asad Ali, Tanveer Ahmed wouldn't even be picked for Z team of Pakistan
We have Shaheen only, and the difference between him and others is massive. It is a depth of fast bowling talent in test cricket that is really poor. In 90s bowler like Faheem, Aiaz Cheema, Musa Khan, Imran Khan Snr, Asad Ali, Tanveer Ahmed wouldn't even be picked for Z team of Pakistan
KingOfPakBreakfast
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There's a parody level of hand wringing and excessive pessimism from posters on here.
The easy go to is to compare Naseem et al with the likes of his Indian and SENA counterparts. Bumrah, Stark and Broad Anderson weren't some incredible consistent success stories straight out of the gate, but through experience and honing their skills, did they get to where they are today. Pakistani fans love their snap judgements on especially their young players, when patience is key in aiding their development.
If we're so quick to judge, be impatient, look down on and write off our own youngsters, then we really don't deserve to be a leading cricket nation.
How long will you keep talking about that statistic. no VRV Singh. Continue with Abbas and pray that he takes some wickets with the old ball and also with the new ball. and pray that he takes the next catch.
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Pathetic bowling attack
Did you atch the game do you know how many opportunities they created ?
Greenstorm
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Its been 10 years. An Amir level talent is due don't you think ?
Thunderbolt14
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Shaheen?
dildilpak
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Nobody is writing off Naseem, but clearly he needs more work before he is ready for international cricket, especially against top teams. Unlike Shaheen, he is not a prodigy & needs to hone his skill & fitness in the List A before he can be brought in to take up the new bowl. Bumrah, Cummins too werent allowed to debut straight out of under 17 - they too had to prove their worth in domestics/ other formats before they earned their Test cap. Throwing Naseem in deep waters (against top teams) & asking him to survive before he is match ready could be counter-productive for that young man.
Greenstorm
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Not at the level that we churn out every 10 years (Shoaib, Amir). Clearly a tier below.
hur rizvi
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He's an honest trier but there is nothing spectacular about him. By spectacular I mean ability to run through a line-up like a teenage Amir, Asif or Akhar among recent bowlers
IAJ
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One thing is Sure, Shaheen will collapse soon. He is just bowling too much, not only in this test, but generally in all formats. We have to remember he is still very young and his body is not that strong yet.
sshakir411
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Wasim is the only person who can salvage what we have (fast bowling perspective).All these years of investing in Waqar are a recipe for disaster. Waqar is technical...not strategic.
tyron_woodley
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Stop overreacting. Jeez. Pakistan bowling is still good. Need to back hasn ali and the young ins.
Fielding and batting needs to improve alot.
Fielding and batting needs to improve alot.
hur rizvi
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Nothing spectacular?)
Yes
Thunderbolt14
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Amir’s major performances were all in extremely helpful conditions. What Amir had was speed, left arm angle, smarts, and accuracy, but not too much of a heavy upside since that was more or less close to the best he could be (and that was quite good).
I don’t think Shaheen is that far behind Amir if you compare them directly at the same age. Very, very few of the best bowlers in history were Amir-level at the age of 18. However, that is because they still had yet to develop, not because Amir was better than them.
Shaheen has a much higher upside than Amir. We need to stop expecting bowlers to come ready out of the gate and understand that grooming is necessary.
Similarly, you refer to Asif as if he was an s class talent right off the bat - he spent years honing his craft in first class cricket and it was his second stint with the national team that was successful.
If we had managed our bowling stocks well, and assuming everyone was morally honest, we’d have had the best bowling attack of the last 10 years in Test cricket.
Mamoon
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Total demise.
I think only Bangladesh and Ireland have worse pace attacks.
I think only Bangladesh and Ireland have worse pace attacks.
daytrader
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How so? Wasim has no intentions to take up a full time gig. He's only good for one off coaching camps
Savak
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More than Bowling skills. Indian pacers actually edge Pakistani bowlers when it comes to fitness, just look at their average speeds, the fact they can bowl 8-10 over spells at full tilt and can keep coming back strong in their third, fourth spells and bowl with the same intensity in all their spells i.e. 140 km/hr plus.
Pakistani pacers in comparison go phuss from their third spells onwards and that is the biggest problem, its not just a skill issue alone.
What training, strength conditioning regime has Bharat Arun and Virat Kohli designed for the Indian pacers? In comparison what is Dehati Waqar doing wrong where inspite of his dehati over training regime the pacers under his watch just get slower and weaker with every game?
Pakistani pacers in comparison go phuss from their third spells onwards and that is the biggest problem, its not just a skill issue alone.
What training, strength conditioning regime has Bharat Arun and Virat Kohli designed for the Indian pacers? In comparison what is Dehati Waqar doing wrong where inspite of his dehati over training regime the pacers under his watch just get slower and weaker with every game?
Kroll
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Nothing to look forward to when it comes to fast bowling these days.
Shaheen, Hasnain, Naseem, Rauf among the notable fast bowlers. Overall potential is there, it's just the management/coaching that tends to be the issue. Even if a once-in-a-generation talent shows himself, how do we know he won't be overworked/misused/selected/etc. due to the management?
tyron_woodley
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Shaheen
Hasan
Gul
Dahani
That should be for tests. Good bowling lineup. Can rauf play tests? Does he have stamina he should be integrated.
Now the lineup looks strong.
No more Naseem and abbas
Hasan
Gul
Dahani
That should be for tests. Good bowling lineup. Can rauf play tests? Does he have stamina he should be integrated.
Now the lineup looks strong.
No more Naseem and abbas
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