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Are you concerned about the spread of Coronavirus in the world?

Are you concerned about the spread of Coronavirus in the world?


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Plus, we don't have the structure to treat that many sick people. If so many people get sick hospitals become overburdened and thereby are unable to treat everyone which will result in an increase in the mortality rate.

One thing I don't understand is why do you have to treat EVERY SINGLE PATIENT. Barely 15% of the cases globally are severe/fatal and around 80% are MILD i.e flu like symptoms at worst. (Again, all facts, no guesses here).

If our hospitals can't even care for 15% of the total infected then maybe we should worry more about the global health infrastructure than this virus.
 
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One thing I don't understand is why do you have to treat EVERY SINGLE PATIENT. Barely 15% of the cases globally are severe/fatal and around 80% are MILD i.e flu like symptoms at worst. (Again, all facts, no guesses here).

If our hospitals can't even care for 15% of the total infected then maybe we should worry more about the global health infrastructure than this virus.

There's a percentage of people who are asymptotic, then there's another percentage that have mild symptoms. Anyone having moderate to severe symptoms needs to be treated in order to be cured.

For many people, COVID-19 symptoms start as mild symptoms and gradually get worse over a few days and could be fatal if left untreated. Yes, indeed a high percentage of people who do not have any pre-existing conditions are able to survive through the virus without requiring any special medical treatment

You need to understand that the virus is extremely contagious and since it is spreading so easily it could effect a very high percentage of the population (estimates were around 50%-80% of the global population). I posted a link from the New York times in one of my earlier posts which allows people to understand the devastation this could cause if we don't act on it now.

Just play around with the slider and you will see how deadly it can get.

Just imagine the devastation it could cause if say 40% of the global population was infected and 20% of out those needed treatment. China needed to build extra hospitals. Italy is struggling and reports coming out of the country suggest patients are being turned away as there are not enough facilities to treat the number of patients.

15% of the total infected population, as you mention, could be extremely high if the number of people infected is something like 80% of the entire population. These percentages are not far fetched. The world is doing everything possible to curtail the spread and if we didn't act the way we are acting it would spread like wild fire.
 
[MENTION=107753]uberkoen[/MENTION]

When you talk about 80% of world population being infected, you forget one thing: Recovery period.

80% of positive COVID-19 cases are mild and AVERAGE recovery period is SEVEN DAYS (source: gulfnews, al jazeera)

I mean even if the virus spreads like wildfire, around 80% of the cases would've recovered in seven days which basically means it is close to IMPOSSIBLE for 80% of the world to be infected at the same time. Which in turn means that those 15% severe cases can never reach a high enough number to overwhelm healthcare systems globally.

I don't think I can give a better explanation anymore.
I rest my case.

Rest is upto you all to decide for yourselves.
Keep clean, take care and DON'T PANIC.
Only trust official statistics and statements as sources of info.
 
Hats off to the NZ government - they seem to have been the most proactive in terms of handling this pandemic and have put western Europe and America to shame [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]
 
Wow.
This is extremely shocking.

Actually it’s not. Many people are not buying the crap the media are feeding us right now, clearly we know there’s a hidden agenda because the numbers are simply don’t back up the “seriousness” of the virus. The media and people like are giving the impression this virus is on doorstep and we’re going die imminently from it. We all know that is so far from the truth. Why aren’t we hearing about the people who have recovered? Why are we just told it’s a serious virus and”could” further problems. I have watched interviews of people and heard on the radio – not mainstream broadcasters – and they have stated they didn’t even know they had the virus. But the mainstream media and guys like pick and choose what you want to present rather than given the whole picture.

The whole picture is, people can get infected, but the majority will be fine. The weak will die of course, but the weak are always more vulnerable anyway.

"COULD" is the reason behind all the actions that are being taken because if no actions are taken COVID-19 could become the single most deadliest disease known to mankind and with how contagious it is it could impact 80% of the global population by summer.
80% is a high figure, but nope not going to happen. Even if they didn’t enforce the strict measures they are we’d never get close to that figure. The vast majority won’t even know they’ve been infected, some won’t show any symptoms.

Why is everyone making a big deal out of it?
I was having this discussion last night with my friends and more of them were concerned about the financial effect than the virus itself. People are concerned about their jobs, their homes and the least of their concerns right now is a virus which is unlikely to kill them. One of my friends commented that more people will suffer from the recession than the disease. I actually think he might be right. 71 deaths in the UK with 2000 confirmed infected. You’re going to get thousands of people with depression from the recession and many suicides when they lose their jobs/homes/families.

I tell you what, you and the other sheep carry on following the crap they’re feeding you and I and others will carry on with our daily lives as normal because that’s what we know is the right approach.
 
My friend, don't you realize how faulty your analysis is?
Oh right, I use facts and it’s faulty but others use predictions and they are valid? Funny that.
My friend, don't you realize how faulty your analysis is?
You are advocating nations to do nothing or at least not as much as they are doing right now but you don't realize that the numbers you are using to draw your conclusion are low thanks to the drastic measurements taken.
Nope – I’m not advocating anything really on that front. What I’m highlighting is that more people will suffer from the financial impact of than the virus itself. These drastic measures were not introduced with other virus’/diseases and the numbers didn’t warrant the drastic measures here either. But there are these measures in place which tell me there’s something else going on. I believe the people deserve the truth not these biased and outrageous stories that we’re currently seeing.

The news feeds have created this panic and the sheep are buying into it.
 
Hats off to the NZ government - they seem to have been the most proactive in terms of handling this pandemic and have put western Europe and America to shame [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]

Yes NZ is the place to be at right now. But they had a big advantage since they are an island at the far end of the world. Very few entry points for the virus. Great job nonetheless though can't compare it to the situation in Europe.
 
There are more than 200,000 confirmed cases of coronavirus worldwide according to Johns Hopkins University
 
Oh right, I use facts and it’s faulty but others use predictions and they are valid? Funny that.

Ok you had your emotional response. I understand that this is an emotional issue for all of us. Now read my reply again and try to understand why I called your line of reasoning faulty. You aren't using facts! You are taking a set of data and driving a completely false conclusion from it. The numbers aren't faulty but the conclusion you come to is!

With all due respect I am going to make a guess and say you aren't particularly good in maths.

Nope – I’m not advocating anything really on that front.

Oh yes you are. Please be honest with us.

When you express you disapproval and anger by saying "what's all the fuss about, what's all this unnecessary lock down and drastic actions" you indeed are advocating. At the very least you are advocating that there is no need to shut down schools, social life and social distancing.

How would you like the governments to handle this pandemic? Just treat it like any other flu and don't take any action or take somewhat mild actions? When you disapprove of one approach then at least share your views on what would be a more appropriate approach.

What I’m highlighting is that more people will suffer from the financial impact of than the virus itself.

Got it!

Many economics experts have expressed their concerns about this issue and everyone is worried about the economic impact. Even I don't know how or if I will be able to pay the bills next months.

These drastic measures were not introduced with other virus’/diseases and the numbers didn’t warrant the drastic measures here either.

Once again you are looking at the numbers and think they aren't that scary hence no need for drastic action. However you are overlooking the point that these numbers are so "undramatic" because the governments took drastic actions.

China put their whole province on a lock down after 600 infected cases because they can do math and quickly realized that if the rate of infection continue things will get really bad really quick.

The current numbers in china are 80'000 infected and 3'200 dead. Now here you come along with your calculator do some division and say "Look these numbers aren't that bad why all the drastic measures?"

YEAH they aren't that bad as a direct result of drastic measures taken by the Chinese authorities.

We don't know what the number of infected and the mortality rate would have been if the Chinese never took any actions and let it all play out like a flu.

But there are these measures in place which tell me there’s something else going on. I believe the people deserve the truth not these biased and outrageous stories that we’re currently seeing.

Ok if I follow your thought process that means all the governments all around the world from communist China to capitalist America, from Serbia to Norway all have agreed on a certain action plan to lead the world towards a controlled economic crisis?

Not just that but all the doctors and all the health care staff in countries all over the world who are pushing their human limits are also just role playing and lying.

Which outrageous stories are you referring to?


The news feeds have created this panic and the sheep are buying into it.

So calling me a sheep will somehow convince me that your arguments make sense and I should stop being a sheep? As a non-sheep what do you think people should do against the lies by not one, not two but literally all the governments in the world?
 
How would you like the governments to handle this pandemic?
at least share your views on what would be a more appropriate approach.
Ok if I follow your thought process that means all the governments all around the world have agreed on a certain action plan to lead the world towards a controlled economic crisis?
How would I like the government to handle this? Well at the very least in a way that isn’t going to cause a recession. It’s too late, we’re already there. I know people who’ve been sent home from work and others who are having sleepless nights about their business. Not one of the people I’ve spoken to about this virus is concerned about getting the virus but all of them are concerned about the panic around it and the impact on their financial situation.

Address the pandemic but in a way that doesn’t cripple the economy. Mind you it is an economy based on a system independent of real-world assets so perhaps if they are going to cripple the economy destroying it and starting from scratch might be the best thing of all. That’s a separate topic though.

The governments are doing what people like you want them to do. Major actions and over-reaction. But as I’ve said before in other posts, we had a period of stability and growth globally, we were due a recession and this has been a very opportunistic way of enforcing it. Create mass panic through their media connections. Create these over the top measures to try and contain it, do very little in comparison to find a cure.

I’m looking at the BBC website and on the main news page there are 14 articles on Coronavirus – not one of them tells us how much the government is investing into finding a cure. They are all on how many have been impacted, the symptoms, what to do if infected and actions that the government are taking such as closing schools. Where are the articles telling us about the recoveries? Where are the interviews with those with mild symptoms? Where is the balanced coverage of this issue? That’s the problem, it’s not balanced. It’s all overhyped one side rubbish creating more panic.
 
Italy has been in lockdown for nearly a month but the number of cases have continued to come in and increase

Lockdown isn’t the solution clearly
 
I don’t know if this is an Azaab but it definitely is Karma for those countries that had the audacity to lockdown its civilians for Political gains, and for those who supported the lockdown by staying silent.

Well done Modi!
 
How would I like the government to handle this? Well at the very least in a way that isn’t going to cause a recession. It’s too late, we’re already there. I know people who’ve been sent home from work and others who are having sleepless nights about their business. Not one of the people I’ve spoken to about this virus is concerned about getting the virus but all of them are concerned about the panic around it and the impact on their financial situation.

Address the pandemic but in a way that doesn’t cripple the economy. Mind you it is an economy based on a system independent of real-world assets so perhaps if they are going to cripple the economy destroying it and starting from scratch might be the best thing of all. That’s a separate topic though.

The governments are doing what people like you want them to do. Major actions and over-reaction. But as I’ve said before in other posts, we had a period of stability and growth globally, we were due a recession and this has been a very opportunistic way of enforcing it. Create mass panic through their media connections. Create these over the top measures to try and contain it, do very little in comparison to find a cure.

I’m looking at the BBC website and on the main news page there are 14 articles on Coronavirus – not one of them tells us how much the government is investing into finding a cure. They are all on how many have been impacted, the symptoms, what to do if infected and actions that the government are taking such as closing schools. Where are the articles telling us about the recoveries? Where are the interviews with those with mild symptoms? Where is the balanced coverage of this issue? That’s the problem, it’s not balanced. It’s all overhyped one side rubbish creating more panic.

You got the wrong idea. I don't want the governments to lock down and close down schools and businesses for fun. I am directly effected by the virus, health wise and financially. However by informing myself about the ongoing pandemic, the rate at which the virus is spreading and it's consequences I can now at least understand the drastic actions governments are forced to take. I understand that for my future to matter I need to remain healthy and my loved ones too.

If people aren't afraid of getting the virus then they are naive, over-confident and badly informed. People not respecting the virus enough is one of reason why situation has come so far. If everyone had their guards up and tried their best to not get infected the virus wouldn't have spread like a wild fire.

I am not UK based and not aware of the politics there, though I am aware their response to the virus has been even slower than other European countries. It will be interesting to see how the disease develops in UK vs other European countries. Especially a UK vs Denmark should be highly interesting comparison. When countries realized the virus has spread through out Europe from Italy, Denmark was the first country to quickly close all schools and announce a lock down for 14 days once they saw 500+ confirmed cases.

I am angry at the European governments. Not because of the drastic measures but because of their late actions to prevent the pandemic which has now forced them to limit the damage by extreme measure.

We had at least a month to analyse the situation in China and take precautionary measures. We saw the pictures of millions of people getting quarantined in China. The Chinese being desperate and building an hospital within a week. Despite these pictures reaching us the responsible authorities didn't prepare well. Their were no alarm bells. Too little was done to prepare ahead of time, the number of test kits and capacity to perform test didn't increase which is one of a big factor which helped South Korea to contain the virus fast.

Look at Iran, a country which hid the on spread of disease, didn't want to close its holy sites a source of mass people gathering and now they are afraid of a million people dying.

Media needs criticism not because it caused the panic and hype around the virus rather because they are and were too busy just displaying the number of infected and dead instead of giving voice to those concerned virologist and epidemiologist who had been warning about the virus since mid-Feb. Media deserves criticism because they were busy making fun about Chinese eating bats instead of informing the people about the nature of the virus and how to protect oneself from it. The health experts who get paid big pay checks deserve criticism for initially calling it and comparing it like a regular flu. When there were quite a few epidemiologists warning the government for being too casual.

Regarding a cure, there are many researches looking for one all over the world. There is even a German scientist who does a regular podcast updating about the latest insight in research on the virus. It's in German though. The information is out there though you won't find it in the mainstream media.

Look once this thing is over and hopefully we remain healthy throughout we can look back judge if the measurements taken were too much or too little. Right now we need to practice good habits to stop the virus from spreading further. If we want to help those looking for cure we need to do what they are saying right now on how to stop its spread.

Regarding the number of cured. It's still unknown when you can consider a person cured and if the person shows immunity. Some research suggests that people who are cured ie. don't have the symptoms anymore can still be contagious for up two weeks.
 
Italy has been in lockdown for nearly a month but the number of cases have continued to come in and increase

Lockdown isn’t the solution clearly

Lock down alone isn't the solution. Lock down together with heavy testing is necessary.

There are many different dynamics at play here. The biggest being the delayed on set of the symptoms. Italy was unfortunately the first country to be hit by coronavirus and that too pretty badly. It did take them some weeks to finally come to the conclusion and lock down the whole country. The longer you wait to lock down the worse the situation.

A much better example is Denmark. They ordered a lock down for two weeks withing first 3 days after the first patient was diagnosed and numbers reaching around 500. According to worldometers.info there numbers look pretty promising. The exponential increases seems to be under control. Though I am not well informed about the testing policy of Denmark.

On the other hand look at Switzerland. They had a very lazy approach. It took them two weeks to finally admit that closing the boundaries and closing the school, Restaurant etc. is a good idea. Their numbers are touching the sky. Every 2 day the number of infected diagnosed is doubled. If this continue the health system will collapse pretty soon.

Denmark and Switzerland initially had the same numbers of infected but a different approach to fight it. Denmark is looking good to open up while Switzerland is only now beginning to lock down which is going to at least for 30 days. Besides the effect of lock down will only start to show in 14 days due to the lag in the information

Denmark reacted early and as a result has to lock down for a much little time period than those who are going to lock down much later. It makes sense since delayed response helps the virus to spread all over the population.
 
Hats off to the NZ government - they seem to have been the most proactive in terms of handling this pandemic and have put western Europe and America to shame [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]
Yeah, NZ have handled it well and have limited the number of cases. We're up to 28 so far but most of them are from people who have traveled and have caught the virus overseas.
 
People pointing out NZ should also look at Singapore's "near-perfect response" as described by the WHO.

Singapore had started contact tracing even before the 1st case was detected in Singapore, as they had knowledge of Chinese tourists who had contracted the virus after returning from Singapore.

This was the required response.
Not stop-gap recession-inducing panic measures by incompetent leadership which is destroying small businesses and youth workforce.

Listening to leaders like Trump and Scott Morrison talking the usual crap about "national unity" and strength makes me gag.
 
People pointing out NZ should also look at Singapore's "near-perfect response" as described by the WHO.

Singapore had started contact tracing even before the 1st case was detected in Singapore, as they had knowledge of Chinese tourists who had contracted the virus after returning from Singapore.

This was the required response.
Not stop-gap recession-inducing panic measures by incompetent leadership which is destroying small businesses and youth workforce.

Listening to leaders like Trump and Scott Morrison talking the usual crap about "national unity" and strength makes me gag.
 
At work its :

1. Work Talk
2. Covid-19 Talk
3. Work Talk
4. Covid-19 talk... and so on!

Covid-19's taken over the world!
 
People pointing out NZ should also look at Singapore's "near-perfect response" as described by the WHO.

Singapore had started contact tracing even before the 1st case was detected in Singapore, as they had knowledge of Chinese tourists who had contracted the virus after returning from Singapore.

This was the required response.
Not stop-gap recession-inducing panic measures by incompetent leadership which is destroying small businesses and youth workforce.

Listening to leaders like Trump and Scott Morrison talking the usual crap about "national unity" and strength makes me gag.

Both Korea and Singapore are seeing a second wave of infections, even China itself is beginning to see cases again. The whole humanity is in panic and there is no one-size-fits-all solution that can be applied.
 
[MENTION=107753]uberkoen[/MENTION]

When you talk about 80% of world population being infected, you forget one thing: Recovery period.

80% of positive COVID-19 cases are mild and AVERAGE recovery period is SEVEN DAYS (source: gulfnews, al jazeera)

I mean even if the virus spreads like wildfire, around 80% of the cases would've recovered in seven days which basically means it is close to IMPOSSIBLE for 80% of the world to be infected at the same time. Which in turn means that those 15% severe cases can never reach a high enough number to overwhelm healthcare systems globally.

I don't think I can give a better explanation anymore.
I rest my case.

Rest is upto you all to decide for yourselves.
Keep clean, take care and DON'T PANIC.
Only trust official statistics and statements as sources of info.

OK
So according you why all the lockdowns and panic?
 
With the work from home policy getting implemented and a possible lockdown across the globe, can anyone suggest which vitamin supplements to stock?
 
The people that annoy me are the ones who sneeze once at work and declare they are going home for 2 weeks.
 
[MENTION=135003]bones[/MENTION] [MENTION=139075]Hadi Rizvi[/MENTION] [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]

To support the position of our friends who are unimpressed by the coronavirus hysteria:

Some critical voices by experts on Coronavirus pandemic hysteria:



China is well off

by W. Wodarg

The current panic has nothing to do with illness or epidemics. All flu-watch indicators just show baseline data. (normale Werte)
Neither in China nor in Italy nor elsewhere extraordinary cases of severe illness are registered. (see above)
China alarmed its people and the world just for two months in Wuhan and staged how to detect and fight an epidemic. European states follow that example and are isolating each other.

In Europe the economy is breaking down and human rights are forgotten, while China has shifted its testing to its frontiers and declares the crisis from now on as a foreign problem.
Europe is paralyzed by panic and China is smiling.

Dr Wolfgang Wodarg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Wodarg

AND

A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

Prof. John P.A. Ioannidis, Stanford

Interesting point of views. I have to think about it.

Let's remain critical.
 
1.3.2020 Corona-Hype:

Without PCR-Tests there would be no reason for special alarms.

We are currently not measuring the incidence of coronavirus diseases, but the activity of the specialists searching for them.



by Wolfgang Wodarg

The corona hype is not based on any extraordinary public health danger. However, it causes considerable damage to our freedom and personal rights through frivolous and unjustified quarantine measures and restrictions. The images in the media are frightening and the traffic in China's cities seems to be regulated by the clinical thermometer.

Evidence based epidemiological assessment is drowning in the mainstream of fear mongers in labs, media and ministries.

The carnival in Venice was cancelled after an elderly dying hospital patient was tested positive. When a handful of people in Northern Italy also were tested positive, Austria immediately closed the Brenner Pass temporarily.
Due to a suspected case of coronavirus, more than 1000 people were not allowed to leave their hotel in Tenerife. On the cruise ship Diamond Princess 3700 passengers could not disembark., Congresses and touristic events are cancelled, economies suffer and schools in Italy have an extra holyday.

At the beginning of February, 126 people from Wuhan were brought to Germany by plane and remained there in quarantine two weeks in perfect health. Corona viruses were detected in two of the healthy individuals.
We have experienced similar alarmist actions by virologists in the last two decades. WHO's "swine flu pandemic" was in fact one of the mildest flu waves in history and it is not only migratory birds that are still waiting for "birds flu". Many institutions that are now again alerting us to the need for caution have let us down and failed us on several occasions. Far too often, they are institutionally corrupted by secondary interests from business and/or politics.

If we do not want to chase frivolous panic messages, but rather to responsibly assess the risk of a spreading infection, we must use solid epidemiological methodology. This includes looking at the "normal", the baseline, before you can speak of anything exceptional.
Until now, hardly anyone has paid attention to corona viruses. For example, in the annual reports of the Robert-Koch-Institute (RKI) they are only marginally mentioned because there was SARS in China in 2002 and because since 2012 some transmissions from dromedaries to humans have been observed in Arabia (MERS). There is nothing about a regularly recurring presence of corona viruses in dogs, cats, pigs, mice, bats and in humans, even in Germany.
However, children's hospitals are usually well aware, that a considerable proportion of the often severe viral pneumonia is also regularly caused or accompanied by corona viruses worldwide.

In view of the well-known fact that in every "flu wave" 7-15% of acute respiratory illnesses (ARI) are coming along with coronaviruses, the case numbers that are now continuously added up are still completely within the normal range.
About one per thousand infected are expected to die during flu seasons. By selective application of PCR-tests - for example, only in clinics and medical outpatient clinics - this rate can easily be pushed up to frightening levels, because those, who need help there are usually worse off than those, who are recovering at home. The role of such s selection bias seems to be neglected in China and elsewhere.

Since the turn of the year, the focus of the public, of science and of health authorities has suddenly narrowed to some kind of blindness. Some doctors in Wuhan (12 million inhabitants) succeeded in attracting worldwide attention with initially less than 50 cases and some deaths in their clinic, in which they had identified corona viruses as the pathogen.
The colourful maps that are now being shown to us on paper or screens are impressive, but they usually have less to do with disease than with the activity of skilled virologists and crowds of sensationalist reporters.

We are currently not measuring the incidence of coronavirus diseases, but the activity of the specialists searching for them.

Wherever such the new tests are carried out - there about 9000 tests per week available in 38 laboratories throughout Europe on 13 February 2020 – there are at least single cases detected and every case becomes a self-sustaining media event. The fact alone that the discovery of a coronavirus infection is accompanied by a particularly intensive search in its vicinity explains many regional clustersi.

The horror reports from Wuhan were something, that virologists all over the world are waiting for. Immediately, the virus strains present in the refrigerators were scanned and compared feverishly with the reported newcomers from Wuhan. A laboratory at the Charité won the race at the WHO and was the first to be allowed to market its in-house tests worldwide. Prof C. Drosten was interviewed on 23rd of january 2020 and described how the Test was established. He said, that he cooperated with a Partner from China, who confirmed the specific sensitivity of the Charitè-Test for the Wuhan coronavirus. Other Tests from different Places followed soon and found their market.

However, it is better not to be tested for corona viruses. Even with a slight "flu-like" infection the risk of coronavirus detection would be 7% - 15% . This is, what a prospective monitoring in Scotland (from 2005 to 2013) may teach us. The scope, the possible hits and the significance of the new tests are not jet validated. It would be intersting to have soe tests not only on airports and cruising ships but on german or italian cats, mice or even bats.

If you find some new virus RNA in a Thai cave ore a Wuhan hospital, it takes a long time to map its prevalence in different hosts worldwide.

But if you want to give evidence to a spreading pandemic by using PCR-Tests only, this is what should have been done after a prospective cross sectional protocoll.


So beware of side effects. Nowadays positive PCR tests have tremendous consequences for the everyday life of the patient and his wider environment, as can be seen in all media without effort.

However, the finding itself has no clinical significance. It is just another name for acute respiratory illnesses (ARI), which as every year put 30% to 70% of all people in our countries more or less out of action for a week or two every winter.
According to a prospective ARI-virus monitoring in Scotland from 2005 to 2013, the most common pathogens of acute respiratory diseases were: 1. rhinoviruses, 2. influenza A viruses, 3. influenza B viruses, 4. RS viruses and 5. coronaviruses.
This order changed slightly from year to year. Even with viruses competing for our mucous membrane cells, there is apparently a changing quorum, as we know it from our intestines in the case of microorganisms and from the Bundestag in the case of political groups.

So if there is now to be an increasing number of "proven" coronavirus infections. in China or in Italy: Can anyone say how often such examinations were carried out in previous winters, by whom, for what reason and with which results? When someone claims that something is increasing, he must surely refer to something, that has been observed before.

It can be stunning, when an experienced disease control officer looks at the current turmoil, the panic and the suffering it causes. I'm sure many of those responsible public health officers would probably risk their jobs today, as they did with the "swine flu" back then, if they would follow their experience and oppose the mainstream.

Every winter we have a virus epidemic with thousands of deaths and with millions of infected people even in Germany. And coronaviruses always have their share.
So if the Federal Government wants to do something good, it could learn from epidemiologists in Glasgow and have all clever minds at the RKI observe prospectively (!!!) and watch how the virom of the German population changes from year to year.



Some questions for the evaluation of the current findings:

Which prospective, standardised monitoring of acute respiratory diseases with or without fever (ILI, ARI) is used for the epidemiological risk assessment of coronavirus infections observed in Wuhan Italy, South Korea, Iran and elsewhere (baseline).
How do the comparable (!) results of earlier observations differ from those now reported by the WHO? (in China, in Europe, in Italy, in Germany, etc.)
What would we observe this ARI-season if we would ignore the new PCR-testing?
How valid and how comparable are the detection methods used with regard to sensitivity, specificity and pathogenetic or prognostic relevance?
What is the evidence or probability that the observed corona viruses 2019/2020 are more dangerous to public health than previous variants?
If you find them now, how can you proove, they were not there (e.g. in animals) before.
How do you make shure, that a positive tested case is not in the same time suffering/dying from other virus co-infections?
What considerations have been made or taken into account to exclude or minimise sources of bias (sources of error)?

https://www.wodarg.com/

For now we need to follow what the authorities are saying to fight the pandemic. However we need to remain critical and when the whole nightmare is over the whole thing needs to be scrutinized.
 
The people that annoy me are the ones who sneeze once at work and declare they are going home for 2 weeks.

Sneezing is one of the main spreaders of the virus as it is passed through close proximity and droplets from coughing or sneezing.
 
Btw Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg was critical of the swine flu panic too when it intially broke out and now looking back he was right and a lot of panic that time was created by special interest groups. As you can see in this video
¨

Most of his interviews critical about Covid-19 and his rational are in German unfortunately. I am still unsure what to make of all this.

At one hand I hope he is right because that's good news for poor countries like Pakistan wont be actually facing mass deaths but at the other hand the unnecessary economic crisis due to all these lock down worries me.
 
Btw Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg was critical of the swine flu panic too when it intially broke out and now looking back he was right and a lot of panic that time was created by special interest groups. As you can see in this video
¨

Most of his interviews critical about Covid-19 and his rational are in German unfortunately. I am still unsure what to make of all this.

At one hand I hope he is right because that's good news for poor countries like Pakistan wont be actually facing mass deaths but at the other hand the unnecessary economic crisis due to all these lock down worries me.

All these academics such as Ionnadis and Wodarg are conflating absence of evidence with evidence of absence. It's their equivalent of asking a passenger to put on a seat-belt after a crash. They have no understanding or appreciation of tail risk. These are all lunatics who are happy to lose a lot of lives in the search of empirical evidence.

The sad part is that if these lockdowns work and lives are saved, most people will come out with absolute nonsense about how the hysteria was overblown, when it was precisely such strict measures that would have saved lives.

Listen and learn from the countries that have been able to contain this.
 
People pointing out NZ should also look at Singapore's "near-perfect response" as described by the WHO.

Singapore had started contact tracing even before the 1st case was detected in Singapore, as they had knowledge of Chinese tourists who had contracted the virus after returning from Singapore.

This was the required response.
Not stop-gap recession-inducing panic measures by incompetent leadership which is destroying small businesses and youth workforce.

Listening to leaders like Trump and Scott Morrison talking the usual crap about "national unity" and strength makes me gag.

New Zealand had only a tenth of the cases in Singapore.
 
There were around 1,000 deaths yesterday. There are around 1,200 deaths today. Things are heating up.

Only continent that has been safe is Antarctica.
 
The numbers are crazy and getting out of hand.

The danger is that the numbers being reported are low.
 
its close to panic time but there are some signs that it may be peaking.
 
Currently I'm in this mode, but it could change if things worsen :sarf


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Whats your mode now after a month?
 
Totally blown out of proportion and Youtube and other companies locking down things like Empty Hospital videos just confirms this to me.
 
Coronavirus cases steadily mounting in Africa now. These third world countries won't be able to handle it, more than likely their creaking health systems would be overwhelmed. They won't really have much option but to go with the herd immunity strategy and accept the deaths as population control.
 
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