What's new

Army rejects PM Office statement on Dawn Leaks report

Mian

Mian

T20I Debutant
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Runs
7,014
Interesting times ahead get your popcorns ready

And those saying this is an insult of democracy need to realize this is nooracracy not democracy. Your PM is asked to go home by 2 most senior judges and 3 others want more investigation but he is still in the office without feeling any insult at all

If there was true democracy in Pakistan or even an attempt than i will surely criticize army role but no sir our politicians are too busy filling their pockets without doing anything to make sure country is being run in a democratic way. They don't even care what Army do as long as Army don't question their corruption.
 
The hypocrisy of the part time patriots is off the charts. The Urdu saying "tumhara kutta kutta, hamara kutta Tommy" comes to mind. Absolutely disgraceful stuff from the khakis and in any nation with even an ounce of moral fibre, heads would already have been rolling.
 
Syed1 said:
Well done Pak Fauj

:salute
Click to expand...

I have a feeling Nawaz is preparing the ground for becoming sayasi shaheed again instead of being convicted by supreme court he will prefer sayasi shahadat by army to secure his family future in politics.
 
Mian said:
Interesting times ahead get your popcorns ready

And those saying this is an insult of democracy need to realize this is nooracracy not democracy. Your PM is asked to go home by 2 most senior judges and 3 others want more investigation but he is still in the office without feeling any insult at all

If there was true democracy in Pakistan or even an attempt than i will surely criticize army role but no sir our politicians are too busy filling their pockets without doing anything to make sure country is being run in a democratic way. They don't even care what Army do as long as Army don't question their corruption.
Click to expand...

Exactly.. Even military dictator Mush's government had more "jamhooriat" than these jamhoori governments. This is not jamhooriat, this is monarchy where the entire government machinery is just trying to save Nawaz Sharif who is embroiled in a personal matter. Nawaz is also positioning his daughter to be the next PM, and has saved her here by sacrificing smaller sacrificial goats.

The army is the only functioning institution in the country and the only one that can keep these "jamhoori" siyasat-daan in check.
 
DW44 said:
The hypocrisy of the part time patriots is off the charts. The Urdu saying "tumhara kutta kutta, hamara kutta Tommy" comes to mind. Absolutely disgraceful stuff from the khakis and in any nation with even an ounce of moral fibre, heads would already have been rolling.
Click to expand...

In any nation a PM will go home once he is convicted for taking money from ISI to derail another democratic goverment or if the 2 senior judges say you are corrupt and shouls go home. But no sir we are not living in a democratic country.
 
I have a question.In a democracy, how can the Army reject anything that a elected govt has notified?
 
Mian said:
In any nation a PM will go home once he is convicted for taking money from ISI to derail another democratic goverment or if the 2 senior judges say you are corrupt and shouls go home. But no sir we are not living in a democratic country.
Click to expand...

Indeed we are not. We're living in a military dictatorship masquerading as a democracy because doing away with that facade results in the loss of precious aid dollars and sanctions so you have a puppet PM who cuts ribbons and makes money while those who actually run the place assert their authority from time to time in order to let him know who's really in charge. If this supposedly sincere army was so sincere, NS would have been gone by now considering they have more than enough evidence to convict him in any court of law in the world but they'll never do that because having him around is convenient, especially when it comes to taking the fall for our actual rulers' many failures.
 
Last edited:
DW44 said:
Indeed we are not. We're living in a military dictatorship masquerading as a democracy because doing away with that facade results in the loss of precious aid dollars and sanctions so you have a puppet PM who cuts ribbons and makes money while those who actually run the place assert their authority from time to time in order to let him know who's really in charge. If this supposedly sincere army was so sincere, NS would have been gone by now considering they have more than enough evidence to convict him in any court of law in the world but they'll never do that because having him around is convenient, especially when it comes to taking the fall for our actual rulers' many failures.
Click to expand...

Well if these puppet politicians had focused more on national development rather than their own pockets and strived to have a higher moral standing and upheld the law at every opportunity then they may have a chance of subordinating the army.

As things stand a sitting Prime Minister is adjudged by all 5 SC judges to not be morally clean and innocent of financial corruption. The same PM is also having secret meetings with shady businessmen from Pakistan's only enemy and you expect the army and the nation to trust him????
 
Syed1 said:
Well if these puppet politicians had focused more on national development rather than their own pockets and strived to have a higher moral standing and upheld the law at every opportunity then they may have a chance of subordinating the army.
Click to expand...
No, they'd still be powerless against the army. Only way to bring the army to heed is for continued democracy for several decades and we haven't even had one day yet considering we're currently just a dictatorship pretending to be a democracy. Continued democracy is not an option because there's a coup every 10-15 years.

As things stand a sitting Prime Minister is adjudged by all 5 SC judges to not be morally clean and innocent of financial corruption. The same PM is also having secret meetings with shady businessmen from Pakistan's only enemy and you expect the army and the nation to trust him????
Click to expand...
I don't. I expect the army and nation to trust the laws of the nation, laws that are above individuals unless you're saying the law is not credible either in which case neither is the five judges' judgement. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
DW44 said:
The hypocrisy of the part time patriots is off the charts. The Urdu saying "tumhara kutta kutta, hamara kutta Tommy" comes to mind. Absolutely disgraceful stuff from the khakis and in any nation with even an ounce of moral fibre, heads would already have been rolling.
Click to expand...

The Nooras and the army are all the same and after some trading they will come to a compromise. Lets see the army actually uphold the law this time rather use the leak to blackmail a criminal PM.
 
Bewal Express said:
The Nooras and the army are all the same and after some trading they will come to a compromise. Lets see the army actually uphold the law this time rather use the leak to blackmail a criminal PM.
Click to expand...

Not going to happen. Army prioritizes its own interests over all else and if that means having NS sucking the country dry as long as he continues to serve as a convenient fall guy for their failures, so be it. ISI has enough evidence on him to not only disqualify him from holding elected office but keep him behind bars for several lifetimes but there's a reason that evidence will never see the light of day.
 
DW44 said:
Not going to happen. Army prioritizes its own interests over all else and if that means having NS sucking the country dry as long as he continues to serve as a convenient fall guy for their failures, so be it. ISI has enough evidence on him to not only disqualify him from holding elected office but keep him behind bars for several lifetimes but there's a reason that evidence will never see the light of day.
Click to expand...

The army is also wary of moving too harshly against Nawaz because then he will become siyaasi shaheed and the nation loves siyasi shaheed and will give Nawaz an even bigger mandate in 2018, that will make him even stronger.

That is why, I think, the army is turning a blind eye to Nawaz's follies to let him complete his term so that he doesn't have the army to blame for being siyaasi shaheed and would have to go to the electorates on the back of their performance, or lack off.
 
Syed1 said:
The army is also wary of moving too harshly against Nawaz because then he will become siyaasi shaheed and the nation loves siyasi shaheed and will give Nawaz an even bigger mandate in 2018, that will make him even stronger.

That is why, I think, the army is turning a blind eye to Nawaz's follies to let him complete his term so that he doesn't have the army to blame for being siyaasi shaheed and would have to go to the electorates on the back of their performance, or lack off.
Click to expand...

That would be true if the only way to get rid of him was through illegal means i.e. a coup. NS is the most hated man in the country and if they use legal means to get rid of him, which they're more than capable of given the staggering amount of evidence they have on him, no one would buy the martyr song and dance. The only reason he's​ around is because there's a you scratch my back I'll scratch yours thing going between them with NS free to loot and cut ribbons so long as he doesn't step on the khakis' toes and doesn't make too much of a fuss when he's blamed for failures that would have been credited to the khakis had they been successes.
 
Mian said:
Interesting times ahead get your popcorns ready

And those saying this is an insult of democracy need to realize this is nooracracy not democracy. Your PM is asked to go home by 2 most senior judges and 3 others want more investigation but he is still in the office without feeling any insult at all

If there was true democracy in Pakistan or even an attempt than i will surely criticize army role but no sir our politicians are too busy filling their pockets without doing anything to make sure country is being run in a democratic way. They don't even care what Army do as long as Army don't question their corruption.
Click to expand...


Iss Nooracracy mein berhay berhay khalwatt nasheenoun k haath rangay huay hein. Unkay bhee jo media mein kuch bikwaatay hein hawaaldaaroun munsheeoun k zariye aor androonay khaana muqmuqqa kertay hein corrupt hukmaraanoun se kyun k ye corrupt hukmaraan unki jaageer ko khatra naheen.


Acha drama lagaya hua hai. Nawaz Sharif ko ley aao taangein khencho phenk dou. Phir Zardaari ko ley aao taangein kheincho phenk dou. Phir dubaara Nawaz phir Zardari. Kutti Dosti ka silsila chalaya hua hai aor Awaam ko bewaqoof bnaee jao.


Teeno Rallay huay hein.
 
Latest rumor in the market:

Govt and Army had a consensus, Maryam name was removed from report. But Govt betrayed Army by also skipping derbari Pervez Rasheed's name from the leaked report so from their differences started.
 
DW44 said:
That would be true if the only way to get rid of him was through illegal means i.e. a coup. NS is the most hated man in the country and if they use legal means to get rid of him, which they're more than capable of given the staggering amount of evidence they have on him, no one would buy the martyr song and dance. The only reason he's​ around is because there's a you scratch my back I'll scratch yours thing going between them with NS free to loot and cut ribbons so long as he doesn't step on the khakis' toes and doesn't make too much of a fuss when he's blamed for failures that would have been credited to the khakis had they been successes.
Click to expand...

You don't know that he has massive support in many areas of Punjab.
 
waqar goraya said:
You don't know that he has massive support in many areas of Punjab.
Click to expand...
Only certain parts of Punjab but there's three other provinces that absolutely despise him. I'm from KPK so I can speak about the political atmosphere there and the man is more hated around those parts than several high profile terrorists because he keeps screwing us over economically and politically for Punjab's benefit everytime he's in power. Sindh has similar concerns and Balochistan's love affair with a man who's the living embodiment of the idea of Pakistan=Punjabisan is hardly a secret so that's three out of four provinces that want him to go down.

Even in Punjab he only has support in certain areas(mostly Sialkot-Gujrat-Gujranwala-Lahore-Faisalabad belt). In any case, even his supporters can't play the victim/martyr card if he's brought down through the proper channels i.e. by the justice system using proper evidence which the ISI has by the tons but he clearly has an arrangement with them where he can make money while they call the shots from behind the scenes which is why none of that evidence surfaced during the trial and won't show up during the JIT either.
 
DW44 said:
Only certain parts of Punjab but there's three other provinces that absolutely despise him. I'm from KPK so I can speak about the political atmosphere there and the man is more hated around those parts than several high profile terrorists because he keeps screwing us over economically and politically for Punjab's benefit everytime he's in power. Sindh has similar concerns and Balochistan's love affair with a man who's the living embodiment of the idea of Pakistan=Punjabisan is hardly a secret so that's three out of four provinces that want him to go down.

Even in Punjab he only has support in certain areas(mostly Sialkot-Gujrat-Gujranwala-Lahore-Faisalabad belt). In any case, even his supporters can't play the victim/martyr card if he's brought down through the proper channels i.e. by the justice system using proper evidence which the ISI has by the tons but he clearly has an arrangement with them where he can make money while they call the shots from behind the scenes which is why none of that evidence surfaced during the trial and won't show up during the JIT either.
Click to expand...

He also enjoys support in Rawalpindi, Multan and Bahawalpur regions. Area-wise his popularity is very limited but these areas are densely populated and have 100 plus NA seats that's why he does not mind if he is not accepted by people in other areas.
They think it is enough to win them elections, at least in Punjab.
 
waqar goraya said:
He also enjoys support in Rawalpindi, Multan and Bahawalpur regions. Area-wise his popularity is very limited but these areas are densely populated and have 100 plus NA seats that's why he does not mind if he is not accepted by people in other areas.
They think it is enough to win them elections, at least in Punjab.
Click to expand...

Pindi is youthya-AML country for the most part bar the outer parts of Pindi district and Multan is also split between him and TTPTI because of SMQ. Haven't spent enough time in BWP to get a clear picture of which way the political winds are blowing but there's a lot of ethnic tension between Punjabis and Seraikis there with both represented roughly equally so at least half of BWP should be against him. That said, in numerical terms, he does have more support than anyone else (which is why I don't buy the theory about rigging having a significant impact on election results) but that's​ a moot point because if he's brought down legally through a transparent process, his supporters can't play victim.
 
DW44 said:
Only certain parts of Punjab but there's three other provinces that absolutely despise him. I'm from KPK so I can speak about the political atmosphere there and the man is more hated around those parts than several high profile terrorists because he keeps screwing us over economically and politically for Punjab's benefit everytime he's in power. Sindh has similar concerns and Balochistan's love affair with a man who's the living embodiment of the idea of Pakistan=Punjabisan is hardly a secret so that's three out of four provinces that want him to go down.

Even in Punjab he only has support in certain areas(mostly Sialkot-Gujrat-Gujranwala-Lahore-Faisalabad belt). In any case, even his supporters can't play the victim/martyr card if he's brought down through the proper channels i.e. by the justice system using proper evidence which the ISI has by the tons but he clearly has an arrangement with them where he can make money while they call the shots from behind the scenes which is why none of that evidence surfaced during the trial and won't show up during the JIT either.
Click to expand...

Absolutely spot on.
 
It is true that Nawaz's support base is also loyal to the army.Even majority of their ministers won't utter a word if Nawaz is kicked out legally or illegally. Nawaz's wide spread popularity in Punjab is not an issue for army as this support base is very pliant to the army. But media , lawyers and international establishment is another thing.
 
While i accept that army has been soft on the Sharifs but i don't know what ulterior motives of army [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] make the Sharifs indispensable?
 
waqar goraya said:
While i accept that army has been soft on the Sharifs but i don't know what ulterior motives of army [MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION] make the Sharifs indispensable?
Click to expand...
He's pliable because he owes his very existence to them which makes him the perfect stooge to serve as a figurehead while they rule from behind the scenes, a very convenient solution to the question of how to rule the country without formally taking over(that hits their pockets). They have leverage on him so he's unlikely to rise against them, especially after his last two attempts were brutally shut down. His image as a corrupt and incompetent man makes it easy to scapegoat him for any failures in areas like foreign policy and security that are legally the government's domain but controlled by the army in practice(ever notice how every time there's a success on those fronts, army gets the wah wah but any failure is credited to the civillians).
 
DW44 said:
He's pliable because he owes his very existence to them which makes him the perfect stooge to serve as a figurehead while they rule from behind the scenes, a very convenient solution to the question of how to rule the country without formally taking over(that hits their pockets). They have leverage on him so he's unlikely to rise against them, especially after his last two attempts were brutally shut down. His image as a corrupt and incompetent man makes it easy to scapegoat him for any failures in areas like foreign policy and security that are legally the government's domain but controlled by the army in practice(ever notice how every time there's a success on those fronts, army gets the wah wah but any failure is credited to the civillians).
Click to expand...

So, you mean the other replacement at the moment that seems PTI is not welcome by the army? PPP also completed their term so how that regime was different than the current one for army?
 
waqar goraya said:
So, you mean the other replacement at the moment that seems PTI is not welcome by the army? PPP also completed their term so how that regime was different than the current one for army?
Click to expand...

PPP were lucky to get a Kiyani as army chief and taking over at a time when army's public opinion was at an all time low. Army's strength directly correlates to their public approval ratings since they don't legally have the powers to do most of the stuff they actually do so unanimous public support is their only means to get away with daylight robbery which is why they spend so much effort shaping public opinion and crack down harder on their critics in the media and public than they do on several terrorist organizations. You must have heard the saying "If you want to find out who rules you, find out who you can't criticize" and apart from Islam, what's the one entity that you can't criticize in Pakistan without putting your life at risk? As their public approval rose, through concerted effort a by ISPR and their media stooges, so too did their power.

With PTI, I have my own views on the matter but I doubt anyone in such an overwhelmingly pro PTI forum would agree. Let's just say that I don't buy the theory about them not being supported by the establishment. Hamid Gul's role in that party's formation is well documented and the first dharna coinciding with army making a huge power play against a weakened NS are not coincidences.
 
Syed1 said:
We dont have democracy..
Click to expand...


Ok I am only Pakistan National and I may have to give up PP for my life but I openly say this.

Pakistan Army is responsible for this so called Democracy. Yet even in a so called democracy this shouldn't happen. Whatever the ISPR has done is not defendable but regrettable.
 
DW44 said:
PPP were lucky to get a Kiyani as army chief and taking over at a time when army's public opinion was at an all time low. Army's strength directly correlates to their public approval ratings since they don't legally have the powers to do most of the stuff they actually do so unanimous public support is their only means to get away with daylight robbery which is why they spend so much effort shaping public opinion and crack down harder on their critics in the media and public than they do on several terrorist organizations. You must have heard the saying "If you want to find out who rules you, find out who you can't criticize" and apart from Islam, what's the one entity that you can't criticize in Pakistan without putting your life at risk? As their public approval rose, through concerted effort a by ISPR and their media stooges, so too did their power.

With PTI, I have my own views on the matter but I doubt anyone in such an overwhelmingly pro PTI forum would agree. Let's just say that I don't buy the theory about them not being supported by the establishment. Hamid Gul's role in that party's formation is well documented and the first dharna coinciding with army making a huge power play against a weakened NS are not coincidences.
Click to expand...

Are you allowed to criticize armed forces in other major countries?

So, according to you the next replacement is ready then why NS is still so important for them to stick with?
 
waqar goraya said:
Are you allowed to criticize armed forces in other major countries?

So, according to you the next replacement is ready then why NS is still so important for them to stick with?
Click to expand...
Mostly yes. There are exceptions like Egypt where the military has even more power than it does here but there's also Israel where you can criticize the military to your heart's content without worrying about being abducted and tortured or murdered.

Don't think the army cares too much about preparing specific replacements too much. For them it's about maintaining their hold on power regardless of who's in charge though someone like NS would be preferable because of how much easier it is to keep him in line using the leverage they have on him.
 
Is the Dawn Leaks matter settled or will PTI reopen inquiry into this breach and get to the bottom of it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

The Bald Eagle
Former DG ISI Faiz Hameed formally indicted on charges of ‘engaging in political activities’: ISPR [Update at Post #131]
2
Replies
145
Views
5K
Cricket Warrior
Cricket Warrior
MenInG
Coalition govt conspiring to pit PTI against Pakistan Army: Imran Khan
Replies
52
Views
4K
MenInG
MenInG
BouncerGuy
Pakistan Army Foils Terrorist Attack on Mianwali Air Base, Killing Nine Militants
Replies
3
Views
727
FearlessRoar
FearlessRoar
MenInG
'Don't hold meetings at night behind closed doors and then target the army': DG ISI to Imran Khan
Replies
56
Views
7K
Savak
Savak
daytrader
The controversy around selection of next Chief of Pakistan Army
Replies
21
Views
2K
MenInG
MenInG
Back
Top