'As they are used to the flattest pitches in the world, ask them to bat first and see what they can get': Paul Stirling's strategy to humble Pakistan

That’s not the worst strike rate for an opener is it?
Fakhar SR 136
Babar SR 130

So the difference between a selfless aggressive and dynamic T20 opener and a selfish stats padder is only 6 points?
 
Fakhar SR 136
Babar SR 130

So the difference between a selfless aggressive and dynamic T20 opener and a selfish stats padder is only 6 points?
It is

And Fakhar opens any day over Babar and Rizwan. If he doesn’t, he should be sent home and not adjusted at number 3 or 4.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That sounded like a captain who is confident enough to face any team in the world. Had a target in mind, planned it, and executed it perfectly.

------------------------

Ireland's captain, Paul Stirling speaking during the post-match presentation:

"We are absolutely delighted, we wanted to start the summer off well and it was almost a perfect day for us. When you come here, especially from Pakistan, the flattest pitches in the world, ask them to bat first and see what they can get. 170 was OK but we leaked a few, but we were happy to chase 180. A brilliant knock from Balbirnie, he got through the powerplay and picked up the pace later on as well. He timed it to perfection, it was a fantastic knock. We have had great games here, especially against Pakistan and to get over the line today is brilliant."​
Because in reality we are stil slaves and the Irish are not
 
Both Inzi and Yuusuf in their time was far better than Babar. If Babar face Murali, Herath, Kumbli, Vittori, Warne, Sakib, Swann his test career will not last more than 10 matches. I left out Mcgrath, Gillepsie, Ambrose, Waslsh, Donald, Anderson, Morrison.....
If Babar can score Test hundreds vs an attack of Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood and Lyon then he can score against all the bowlers that you mentioned.
 
Both Inzi and Yuusuf in their time was far better than Babar. If Babar face Murali, Herath, Kumbli, Vittori, Warne, Sakib, Swann his test career will not last more than 10 matches. I left out Mcgrath, Gillepsie, Ambrose, Waslsh, Donald, Anderson, Morrison.....

Excellent analysis.

The bubble is about to burst soon as more and more people are beginning to realise he’s a fraud. Stirling clearly doesn’t rate him.
 
Excellent analysis.

The bubble is about to burst soon as more and more people are beginning to realise he’s a fraud. Stirling clearly doesn’t rate him.
Why would he bro? He’s seen what these guys are all about first hand in the PSL. Stirling has to compete hard against guys like Munro, Gurbaz, Hales etc to maintain an opening spot for his franchise whilst these duds Babar and Rizwan get free rides as T20 openers with zero aerial play intent.
 
It is

And Fakhar opens any day over Babar and Rizwan. If he doesn’t, he should be sent home and not adjusted at number 3 or 4. No debate on this. Don’t have time to waste

The challenge is how to make Babar look like a selfish stats padder with a SR of 130 and how to make Fakhar look like a selfless, aggressive and dynamic batsman with a SR of 136 and you are not up for the challenge and hence you don’t want a debate.

Fakhar doesn’t open over Babar and Rizwan any day.

Babar and Rizwan completely outclass him as a T20 opener. Fakhar scores far, far less runs than both at almost the same SR.

A 6 pt difference is absolutely nothing especially when there is a big gulf between him and Babar/Rizwan in terms of scoring runs.
 
The challenge is how to make Babar look like a selfish stats padder with a SR of 130 and how to make Fakhar look like a selfless, aggressive and dynamic batsman with a SR of 136 and you are not up for the challenge and hence you don’t want a debate.

Fakhar doesn’t open over Babar and Rizwan any day.

Babar and Rizwan completely outclass him as a T20 opener. Fakhar scores far, far less runs than both at almost the same SR.

A 6 pt difference is absolutely nothing especially when there is a big gulf between him and Babar/Rizwan in terms of scoring runs.
Listen very carefully to this.

I’ve simply stated, ‘If Fakhar is in your squad, he plays as an opener and just as an opener. Nothing else’.

End of story. End of discussion.
 
Yasir Shah scored a Test Hundred vs an attack of Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood and Lyon.
Is that the depth of your argument?

What do we do with this information?

A) Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood, Lyon are rubbish Test bowlers against whom a bowler with a Test average of 13 can score a century.

B) Yasir Shah is on par with Babar as a batsman

Which conclusion do we derive from your smashing insight? A or B?
 
The challenge is how to make Babar look like a selfish stats padder with a SR of 130 and how to make Fakhar look like a selfless, aggressive and dynamic batsman with a SR of 136 and you are not up for the challenge and hence you don’t want a debate.

Fakhar doesn’t open over Babar and Rizwan any day.

Babar and Rizwan completely outclass him as a T20 opener. Fakhar scores far, far less runs than both at almost the same SR.

A 6 pt difference is absolutely nothing especially when there is a big gulf between him and Babar/Rizwan in terms of scoring runs.
Your points are very good when you read score cards but this is not how it is in the actual game

Babar and rizwan will play at run a ball in the powerplay or sometimes even less then barely makeup the strike rate by the time they are out.

By that time all the confidence and momentum is already shifted towards the opposition and they are in the driving seat

So basically match losing innings
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why would he bro? He’s seen what these guys are all about first hand in the PSL. Stirling has to compete hard against guys like Munro, Gurbaz, Hales etc to maintain an opening spot for his franchise whilst these duds Babar and Rizwan get free rides as T20 openers with zero aerial play intent.

Absolutely. I find these comments from Stirling a breath of fresh air because he’s saying it how it is. All the other captains just like to recycle the same generic bs about “Pakistan is a dangerous team on their day”.

PCB would be better off taking heed to what Stirling has to say
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Listen very carefully to this.


I’ve simply stated, ‘If Fakhar is in your squad, he plays as an opener and just as an opener. Nothing else’.

End of story. End of discussion.
What is clear to me is that you have don’t have the chops to back your agenda that Babar is a selfish stats padder and Fakhar is an aggressive and dynamic T20 opener.

The facts clearly show that both Babar and Rizwan have been far superior T20I openers than Fakhar.

If you think this is based on historic records and doesn’t reflect their current form and abilities then this is another battle that you will lose because Fakhar opened throughout PSL 2024 and failed badly, not just in isolation but also in comparison to Babar.

all the facts and figures show that Babar and Rizwan > Fakhar as T20 openers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is that the depth of your argument?

What do we do with this information?

A) Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood, Lyon are rubbish Test bowlers against whom a bowler with a Test average of 13 can score a century.

B) Yasir Shah is on par with Babar as a batsman

Which conclusion do we derive from your smashing insight? A or B?


You made a point that if you score a test hundred against that Australia attack then you can do it against any bowling attack.

Yasir Shah can score a test hundred against any bowling attack, according to you.
 
Your points are very good when you read score cards but this is not how it is in the actual game

Babar and rizwan will play at run a ball in the powerplay or sometimes even less then barely makeup the strike rate by the time they are out.

By that time all the confidence and momentum is already shifted towards the opposition and they are in the driving seat

So basically match losing innings
I trust my own judgement more than anyone on this forum and I have watched the entire careers of Babar, Rizwan and Fakhar just like you and others have.

Babar and Rizwan are both better T20 openers than Fakhar who absolute crap opening in this format except a purple patch in 2018.

Watching Fakhar open in T20s is an absolute pain. He mistimes almost everything, gets crammed for room, tries to belt everything to the boundary, refuses to rotate the strike and eventually hoicks one to the fielder with an ugly slog by playing a nothing innings.

There is a reason why he averages in the 20s. He almost never scores.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What is clear to me is that you have don’t have the chops to back your agenda that Babar is a selfish stats padder and Fakhar is an aggressive and dynamic T20 opener.

The facts clearly show that both Babar and Rizwan have been far superior T20I openers than Fakhar.

If you think this is based on historic records and doesn’t reflect their current form and abilities then this is another battle that you will lose because Fakhar opened throughout PSL 2024 and failed badly, not just in isolation but also in comparison to Babar.

all the facts and figures show that Babar and Rizwan > Fakhar as T20 openers.
I don’t care

I’ve stated my stance on this subject. Full stop.

No more discussion on this.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You made a point that if you score a test hundred against that Australia attack then you can do it against any bowling attack.

Yasir Shah can score a test hundred against any bowling attack, according to you.

There’s no coming back from this. 👏

Also, Babar has not scored any other test hundreds against this standard of bowling outside of Pakistan.

Imagine hyping up Babar when Yasir Shah has the same number of hundreds against top tier bowling attacks away from home.

:klopp
 
Answer this question with yes or no.

Does Yasir Shah have the same number of test hundreds away from home against top tier bowling attacks?
 
You made a point that if you score a test hundred against that Australia attack then you can do it against any bowling attack.

Yasir Shah can score a test hundred against any bowling attack, according to you.
No, I made a point that if Babar has performances against world class bowlers of today and these world class bowlers are not inferior to the world class bowlers of yesteryears.

So hypothetical and fantasy failures vs Walsh, Donald, McGrath, Vettori etc. is not a bush to beat someone with when he has runs vs the best bowlers today as well.

Yasir Shah could have scored one against them too. Who knows. Tailenders have scored runs in previous eras as well. It doesn’t make those bowlers bad, it doesn’t make Babar bad and it doesn’t make Yasir a good batsman.

It is as relevant a fact as starting that Stuart Binny has a 6 wicket haul in ODIs and Wasim Akram does not.
 
Answer this question with yes or no.

Does Yasir Shah have the same number of test hundreds away from home against top tier bowling attacks?
Yes, just like Stuart Binny has an ODI 5fer and Wasim doesn’t and Jayasuriya has more international wickets than Akhtar.

Cricket is filled with such random but clearly interesting facts.
 
I trust my own judgement more than anyone on this forum and I have watched the entire careers of Babar, Rizwan and Fakhar just like you and others have.

Babar and Rizwan are both better T20 openers than Fakhar who absolute crap opening in this format except a purple patch in 2018.

Watching Fakhar open in T20s is an absolute pain. He mistimes almost everything, gets crammed for room, tries to belt everything to the boundary, refuses to rotate the strike and eventually hoicks one to the fielder with an ugly slog by playing a nothing innings.

There is a reason why he averages in the 20s. He almost never scores.
I appreciate your knowledge on cricket but to start off with you need understand the diffrence between t20 odi and tests

most of the points You put forward are spot on but they apply to odis 😀

Why on earth would you talk about averages in a t20 format

30 average bat with 150+ strike rate is a legend in t20

If you want to give priority to averages then odi and tests are your format
 
I appreciate your knowledge on cricket but to start off with you need understand the diffrence between t20 odi and tests

most of the points You put forward are spot on but they apply to odis 😀

Why on earth would you talk about averages in a t20 format

30 average bat with 150+ strike rate is a legend in t20

If you want to give priority to averages then odi and tests are your format
I’m talking about T20Is only. Why are you bringing others formats into the discussion?

Forget averages. Fakhar has a SR of 136 in T20Is as opener. Babar and Rizwan have a SR of 130.

Are you saying that the difference between an aggressive, dynamic match winner and a selfish stats padder is just 6 points? That’s it?
 
Thanks for confirming that it wasn’t a joke.

Babar would average 40-42 in ODIs in 2000s and early 2010s and 35 in T20Is so no, Razzaq was nowhere near him as a batsman.

I think you are giving him too much credit. Babar’s true average in T20s must be around 2-3, you are being very generous with the 10-17 ballpark.


So Saqlain got Babar out on a rank turner in the nets? And if it wasn’t a rank turner and a standard flat, one paced net pitch, then that means Saqlain of today is better than Lyon.

What option are you going for?

Again, you are giving him too much credit. Forget Yousuf who was a top player of his era. Even you can do a better job than Babar if PCB selects you.

I do not wish to further engage with a poster who makes the following arguments and stands by them:

1. Razzaq was a better batsman than Babar

2. If Saqlain comes out of retirement today, Babar won’t be able to play against him

3. If Yousuf comes out of retirement today, he will do better than Babar

4. Babar’s true average in T20s is 10-17

Thank you and best of luck for your future.
5. Travis head is better than every batsman Pak has ever produced
 
5. Travis head is better than every batsman Pak has ever produced

In white ball cricket, he might have a point.

Has Pakistan ever produced a white ball player better than Head? You know what, I’m not sure 🤔
 
In white ball cricket, he might have a point.

Has Pakistan ever produced a white ball player better than Head? You know what, I’m not sure 🤔
That’s exactly what I thought.

Don’t think I’ve ever seen any Pakistani player bat with this kind of confidence and shots all around the park.
 
That’s exactly what I thought.

Don’t think I’ve ever seen any Pakistani player bat with this kind of confidence and shots all around the park.

Exactly and the big match performances to go with it as well.

I personally rate Saeed Anwar as Pakistan’s greatest white ball batsman but I’m not sure I would take him over Head.
 
Exactly and the big match performances to go with it as well.

I personally rate Saeed Anwar as Pakistan’s greatest white ball batsman but I’m not sure I would take him over Head.
From what I have seen of Saeed…he had way more of a method to how he wanted to approach his innings. He will bat freely but he won’t go gung ho.

Head’s method is pretty simple. He’s a see ball hit ball player. He worked out that being calculated isn’t his cup of tea. Since he’s taken this route, he hasn’t ever looked back. He will stick to this route now going forward
 
If Babar can score Test hundreds vs an attack of Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood and Lyon then he can score against all the bowlers that you mentioned.
You compare Cummins, Hazelwood, Starc to Donald, Ambrose, Walse, Mcgrath and Lyon with Murali/Warne/Kumble shows you are way too biased
 
The reason @Mamoon is running away with this debate is that you guys are asking the wrong questions.

The question is not whether Babar or Rizwan are better than Fakhar or Saim.

The question is, do they help us win games by averaging 50?

And if they don't, then why does it matter if they play as openers or number 5 or 6?

And why do they have different privileges than rest of the team despite being on a losing streak?

That is something no fan can answer except embarrassingly say, because it's Babar and Rizwan and they are our heroes.
Please pick your opening pair for Pakistan in T20Is. Who have you got?
 
You compare Cummins, Hazelwood, Starc to Donald, Ambrose, Walse, Mcgrath and Lyon with Murali/Warne/Kumble shows you are way too biased
I don’t need to be biased to say that Babar is one of the best batsman Pakistan has ever had. It is a fact.

If you are blinded by nostalgia how is that my problem.
 
Please pick your opening pair for Pakistan in T20Is. Who have you got?

I would continue with Saim and try to find Haris or anyone aggressive.

Saud could be an option.

I am not saying we have found the opening pair already.

But you are trying to strawman the argument.

The question I asked you is this?

Why should Babar and Rizwan continue to open despite failing for last year or so.
 
I am with @Mamoon on this one while acknowledging, concurrently, that Babar (and rizwan) is a mediocre T20 player today. The game has evolved rapidly in the last 2 years and back then Babar was absolutely an above average batsman then.

But even today, which batsman, going by PSL record, has shown up Babar? Babar failing to win Pakistan games is one thing but the when rubber hits the gravel, you want to know what options you have? Saim Ayub, I have to say, is a poor man's version of Ishan Kishan. A lappebaaz who comes off now and then but hopelessly out of his depth against any decent attack.

Babar is *never* out of his depth against *any& attack. He's not as belligerent as the top 30 T20 bats but how can you hold that against him? He only has to be better than the next pakistani batsman. Which he resoundingly is.

I can only compare the situation with Kohli. Kohli has had a profitable IPL so far but anyone who's followed this season knows that Riyan Parag has bossed him in terms of contextually/situationally important runs. That's a check mark against Indian selectors.

I don't see any Parag equivalent in Pakistan challenging Babar.
 
I would continue with Saim and try to find Haris or anyone aggressive.

Saud could be an option.

I am not saying we have found the opening pair already.

But you are trying to strawman the argument.

The question I asked you is this?

Why should Babar and Rizwan continue to open despite failing for last year or so.
So you are happy to continue with Saim who scores no runs and whose SR is comparable to Babar and Rizwan?

How has Pakistan benefited from opening with Saim and how long should the rope be according to you?

And what part of Haris’ track record convinces you that he is the answer?

I can tell you now already. You can give Saim and Haris 50 games as openers and they will still have inferior output to Babar and Rizwan.

Babar and Rizwan is Pakistan’s best pair under the circumstances and Pakistan will get back to it eventually but as usual they will learn it the hard way.
 
Fakhar Zaman has averaged 36 in T20Is this year at a SR of 154. It's pretty simple, if it ain't broken, don't fix it. If you remove Fakhar from No. 4, who is gonna take his place at that number? For all the criticism about Babar and Rizwan, people tend to forget how weak our middle order is if Fakhar doesn't perform.

Babar and Rizwan need to step up their strike-rates. But if anyone thinks that those two should be batting anywhere lower than 3 than they are out of their mind. The only way you can get anything out of them is in the Top 3.

Thinking long-term though, I don't think playing both of them in the same T20 team is tenable.
 
Fakhar Zaman has averaged 36 in T20Is this year at a SR of 154. It's pretty simple, if it ain't broken, don't fix it. If you remove Fakhar from No. 4, who is gonna take his place at that number? For all the criticism about Babar and Rizwan, people tend to forget how weak our middle order is if Fakhar doesn't perform.

Babar and Rizwan need to step up their strike-rates. But if anyone thinks that those two should be batting anywhere lower than 3 than they are out of their mind. The only way you can get anything out of them is in the Top 3.
So you admit they are liabilities? And there are better T20 top 3 options in Pakistan than those two
 
I am with @Mamoon on this one while acknowledging, concurrently, that Babar (and rizwan) is a mediocre T20 player today. The game has evolved rapidly in the last 2 years and back then Babar was absolutely an above average batsman then.

But even today, which batsman, going by PSL record, has shown up Babar? Babar failing to win Pakistan games is one thing but the when rubber hits the gravel, you want to know what options you have? Saim Ayub, I have to say, is a poor man's version of Ishan Kishan. A lappebaaz who comes off now and then but hopelessly out of his depth against any decent attack.

Babar is *never* out of his depth against *any& attack. He's not as belligerent as the top 30 T20 bats but how can you hold that against him? He only has to be better than the next pakistani batsman. Which he resoundingly is.

I can only compare the situation with Kohli. Kohli has had a profitable IPL so far but anyone who's followed this season knows that Riyan Parag has bossed him in terms of contextually/situationally important runs. That's a check mark against Indian selectors.

I don't see any Parag equivalent in Pakistan challenging Babar.
Babar is *never* out of his depth against *any& attack. He's not as belligerent as the top 30 T20 bats but how can you hold that against him? He only has to be better than the next pakistani batsman. Which he resoundingly is.

What happened today?
 
So you admit they are liabilities? And there are better T20 top 3 options in Pakistan than those two
No there are not any better Top 3 options than them in Pakistan. That is why they are batting in the Top 3.

But if you want to progress forward as a T20 team that crosses 200 regularly, then you can only have one player like that in your playing eleven. The next World Cup is two years away. If Pakistan have any desire to win it, they should drop both Babar and Rizwan from the T20 team after the World Cup for atleast a year and use these absolutely meaningless T20 bilateral series to try out new players.
 
It’s shocking people can’t tell the difference between the type of player Fakhar is, and who Babar or Ris are. A drug test might be long over due. When Fakhar turns it on, Pakistan look very threatening and it is solely down to his doing, his batting masks the holes in Pakistan’s approach. Fakhar is being asked to bat out of his comfort zone to accommodate one dimensional batters in the top order. It’s like asking Rohit Sharma to bat at no.3 or no.4, it’s just an extremely stupid idea and no stat can fuckking justify it. Why should Pakistan be gambling men, it’s haram, gambling with Fakhar so Molvi Saab can twerk with his buddy in the PP overs
 
I felt like today's wicket was the flattest one in the world even Azam Khan was smashing on it :ROFLMAO:
This is the key point.

Rizwan didn’t prove anything today. He should have been out 2-3 times. All of his runs were leg side and he was as usual slow after the powerplay

Fakhar scoring easy runs. It was like stick cricket at one point. Azam hitting 4 sixes in 10 balls
 
LOL! Rizwan's leg side game is unacceptable to his haters, but bad boy Azam Khan is the next-gen sports athlete who cannot run to save his life let alone run to score a single.

😂😂😂
 
According to some bind hater all of Rizwan’s runs were on the leg side. This is his bandwagon of today’s innings. At least 50% off his runs were on the off side of the wicket.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6612.jpeg
    IMG_6612.jpeg
    197.7 KB · Views: 8
Last edited by a moderator:
Rizwan is a one trick, leg side pony.

There I said it again.


What’s anyone going to do about it?
 
From all - all his runs are from leg side, to he is a one trick pony, to a wagon wheel proving Rizwan haters wrong.

Who was man of the match today?

🏆😂
His off side runs were edges

Everyone knows he’s legwan
 
And everyone knows Azam Khan is not fit to be a cricketer let alone a runner. He is a liability, but you got no qualms about AK's limited game/skill set.

This Is why hardly anyone takes you seriously, ever.
Yeah I’ll still be writing up the World Cup preview telling you all accurately where Pakistan will finish
 
How was I exposed? Rizwan dropped 3 times? Still scoring at a lesser SR than Fakhar and Azam?
Nice try again.

You were criticising Rizwan's limited off-site game, Legwan as you refer to him, but are embracing Azam Khan limited skill set.
 
Nice try again.

You were criticising Rizwan's limited off-site game, Legwan as you refer to him, but are embracing Azam Khan limited skill set.
Oh believe me Azam Khan is a better T20 batsman than Rizwan. I genuinely believe that. Pretty sure you will see it soon.
 
No more personal attacks or trolling guys.. Otherwise one of you is going to be banned from this thread.
 
Bottom line : if Rizwan's haters are willing to accept a player with both technical and physical deficiencies, Azam Khan, then they should accept Rizwan's leg-side game.

Who wouldn't take 70 runs from a T20i batsman, even if all on the leg side!? I know I would!
 
Bottom line : if Rizwan's haters are willing to accept a player with both technical and physical deficiencies, Azam Khan, then they should accept Rizwan's leg-side game.

Who wouldn't take 70 runs from a T20i batsman, even if all on the leg side!? I know I would!
Yes, we should accept he is legwan

All hail legwan
 
No.

He was dropped on the 3rd ball of the innings. Watch it again. He was also dropped at short third man off the leggie.

He was dropped 3 times
Saim Ayub played the first over and got out on the third ball of the innings. Rizwan wasn’t even on the strike.
 
That’s from cricinfo

“Hume to Rizwan 1 run, short into the pitch at middle, mistimed a pull towards square leg”

Where is the drop?
You took my words literally when I said Rizwan’s third ball and looked for it on cricinfo. Had you looked one ball before, you would have found this. So as I said, Rizwan was dropped 3 times.

4FDC5D8E-7C76-4C59-80AA-46EEEB720003.jpeg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top