Asad Shafiq, a failure in pressure situations?

[axl100mph]

What a ridiculous assessment by OP. If anything than he's been the saviour, it's not his fault when others choke around him

Hmm, u r right.
After all he has no right to play an innings where he does all the work. Its the fault of others, who dont create a conducive environment for him to score

 

[AlphaFighter]

Am surprised to see Mamoon going out on a limb for shafiq but the facts he hates Shehzad so much. Just doesn't make sense at all

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

 

[axl100mph]

I've to disagree with your assessment on Misbah, his batting is anything but scratchy, Come on! He's rock solid and doesn't give you the impression that he's gonna nick one or get LBW easily unlike Shafiq who finds ways to get out to harmless deliveries when underpressure.

Misbah is one of the biggest lbw candidates. Even in this innings he got lucky twice, both were umpires call.
Did u forget his sri lanka tours where he got obliterated by herath's carrom balls. Prasad didnt help matters either.
In fact, I can recall him getting leg before to thisara parera a number of times in the odi's.

Imran tahir kept on getting him lbw two seasons ago.
He just stays on the back foot n like shafiq doesnt pick the length up quickly, (which is why both r horrible against the short ball) n if the ball seams just a bit, he gets trapped.

Shafiq has better balance n technique than misbah, which is why he isnt as long able to get dismissed lbw

Both these guys r horrible against pace. With misbah, atleast he can smash the mediocre spinners effectively but shafiq cant even get them away

 

[Bullet Drive]

Actually, apart from YK (& probably Sarfraz & Azhar), most PA batsmen bolts under pressure. It's travesty that these are successors of Javed, Inzi, Sadiq, Zaheer, Asif, Mazid, Wasim Raza or Imran - but those were groomed in different set up. I think, Asad is vulnerable to pressure, more than what a player of his caliber should be. But compared to Afridi, MoHa, Misbah, Ahmad or Amin he delivers more often than not, in Test.

Malik is punching above his weight in Test, but he is a quality player under pressure in ODI - apart from that, I don't think Asad is far worse than anyone.

Do you not think Shaans innings vs SL was under pressure?

 

[godzilla]

totally agree with the op. of late he's been a concern. its not enough to eject him but the yellow alarm is starting to twitch: he's hit enough soft runs to keep him in, like a century when over a 1000 runs are conceded in a match for the loss of 17 wickets. and quoting four innings out of 61 is worthy evidence only to people who are a bit challenged in the intelligence department. goes to show again how meaningless the number of centuries statistic is, and how its only important to the dumb.

shafiq has done enough to be in the side, but hes unconvincing and inconsistency is a very significant worry especially for a number 6.

 

[Hawkeye]

Having opinions don't make anyone biased or illogical or irrational. We all have favorites, one guy can rate one player and others will not rate him.

No one here unanimously agrees on every player to be "capable", some here try to use "technique" argument to say one guy is great, but another with knowledge of "technique" will come and tear the player apart.

Though, certain players who fail majority of the times, like Masood, Shehzad, Shafiq in ODIs, etc. - most have a consensus that they're just not good enough.

 

[axl100mph]

Do you not think Shaans innings vs SL was under pressure?

Shan doesnt hv enough ability to let the equation come down to pressure handling.

He clearly picks the ball late from the hand, which is why I hv hardly seen him at ease against pace

 

[axl100mph]

My reply was more directed towards your assessment of Misbah being scratchy which is simply not true, he may be a LBW candidate, but he looks rock solid.

What is scratchy?

Dont u remember his 69 against australia where he copped blows everywhere.

He cant play anything short.



Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Shafiq has scored many runs for us under pressure...

 

[axl100mph]

Reality and opinion is different. You're one of those who even bashes Haris Sohail if I'm not wrong. Anyway, not a place to discuss Misbah who is above and second only to YK in Tests even at this age. He can't freely hit pacers yes, but is decent, and tell me when others score the fastest Test ton against both pacers and spinners. All of this is subjective anyway.

Yes I do bash haris for his lack of dynamism n reprtoire in odi's, which leads him to hack across the line, leading to a tame dismissal.

Is haris absolved from criticism?
Is he a tendulkar level batsman as u trying to infer here?
I dont think so

In my book, babar azam is superior to him n can be our answer to the best batsmen of the world (so much for my alleged negativity).

But in tests, haris certainly merits a place, much more than king misbah.
In fact he, along with babar, umar and rizwan should come right away into our test team if we r to pose a challenge overseas next year

N no, the niazi king is not second to younis, azhar is. In fact, the king is on borrowed time n should retire gracefully, for he is smart enough to know it.


Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk

 

[Abhilash93]

"scored only after Sarfaraz went berserk"

 

[Slog]

Am surprised to see Mamoon going out on a limb for shafiq but the facts he hates Shehzad so much. Just doesn't make sense at all

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

Because Shafiq is one of the most successful batsmen ever in the history of the game in the difficult position he bats at?

If you don't orgasm over his batting or think his batting is not eye catching enough then that's your problem. Umar Amin should be brought back in that case.

 

[axl100mph]

Because Shafiq is one of the most successful batsmen ever in the history of the game in the difficult position he bats at?

If you don't orgasm over his batting or think his batting is not eye catching enough then that's your problem. Umar Amin should be brought back in that case.

Difficult position, hmm
I see, most of his innings hv really come when we were in tatters like in this test or the one in bangladesh.
If not then he has never needed support from the other end to build his own innings

 

[Pete Rose]

I think he needs to find another gear now. Life is not going to be about coming in at 230 for 4.
Having said that, some of the criticism comes from folks pining for umar akmal or Ahmed shehzad or perennial softie Hafeez. So that needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[Slog]

I think he needs to find another gear now. Life is not going to be about coming in at 230 for 4.
Having said that, some of the criticism comes from folks pining for umar akmal or Ahmed shehzad or perennial softie Hafeez. So that needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

dont think playing in different gears is his problem.

He has played a variety of good innings in all sorts of different circumstances.

Where he lacks is taking control of the situation and dominating the game. He doesnt get on top of the bowling side even when he has scored quite a few runs. Doesnt bat them into submission. Needs to play with more confidence and realize that his record is very good.

 

[Pete Rose]

dont think playing in different gears is his problem.

He has played a variety of good innings in all sorts of different circumstances.

Where he lacks is taking control of the situation and dominating the game. He doesnt get on top of the bowling side even when he has scored quite a few runs. Doesnt bat them into submission. Needs to play with more confidence and realize that his record is very good.

We may quibble on what we call this, but I agree with the substance of it. He still bats like someone fighting for his place in the team, but he has the most backing which is well deserved considering his impressive output. But for his sake, he needs to come through this type of situation so that he can carry that confidence to the future.

 

[Mamoon]

You keep diverting the argument by bringing in an insecurity: 'Misbah is this, Misbah is that' -- Shafiq has a long way to go to reach him, calm down because I'm not attacking Shafiq like you attack Misbah to defend some of your beloved ones. This is quite immature, and you shouldn't do it. You're having a field day out of this.

I've explained the reason why I brought Misbah into the discussion - see #80.

In addition, I've seen you divert attention towards Afridi/Umar Akmal/Shehzad every time Misbah is scrutinized, so let's not play that game.

I'm actually a neutral when it comes to Shafiq, like most others in this thread. Most here know your connection with him, and have pointed that out, plus deficiences of Shafiq.

What connection? He is not my phupo ka beta. I think he's a very good Test batsman and a vital member of our team - he gets unwarranted criticism at times.

You're clearly not ready to accept them. I mentioned his inconsistency, as well as losing the plot when there's no support and he has to deliver. Mentioned 4 of his innings where he was absolutely needed, but he didn't show up against the mighty Zimbabwe.

Ah that series nearly 3 years ago. Didn't Azhar fail as well? It was a horror show and both of them were badly out of form in 2013/14, but they have been very good 2014 onwards.

H failed in SL recently after the match where Sarfraz did the damage. Was needed, but didn't show up.

There was a huge debate on this, and majority agreed it was Sarfraz who saved the previous match, giving a breathing space to Shafiq. Expectedly, he failed in the next match, and continued his tradition of "One performance per series". You hated YK for the same thing, for heaven's sake.

What sort of logic is this? Sarfraz saved the match which his attacking innings but when he departed, we were still trailing by 65 runs. Shafiq added 182 runs with the tail which helped us win the match.

If Sarfraz drew the match, Shafiq won it. I don't care what the majority say, because I can see for myself and I like to think independently. I have no qualms in agreeing with the majority but I'll listen to myself first.

You can repeat it as many times as you want but in that Test, Shafiq played the more defining knock. Yes he did not do much after it but it was not a productive series for our batsmen throughout. Misbah, Hafeez, Shehzad all failed, while Younis and Masood played one good knock only. Azhar and Sarfraz were the only ones who delivered twice, so I don't see why Shafiq has to be singled out.

You clearly can't see his timidness, nervousness and we neutrals really can't understand why. Because you're his fan, maybe.

Again, I have never called him the most confident batsman. He has his issues and need to impose himself more, I have said that a thousand times.

None of the neutrals calls him awful, so stop taking this criticism as an attack on him. We want him to man up and take charge, authority. He's going to be replacing YK/Misbah. I really can't imagine relying on him with the timid approach and inconsistency he's showing of late.

Younis is one of our best ever Test batsman so replacing him will be a tall order, but I think Azhar has him covered. As far as Misbah is concerned, no matter how much you stress, he is just a decent Test batsman nothing more - one of the biggest HTB of his generation but is never called out for it.

If Shafiq or someone like Haris etc. do not end up as superior Test batsmen than Misbah by the time they retire, they should be disappointed with their effort.

Misbah owes more than half of his Test career to Abu Dhabi and is a certified failure in overseas conditions. Shafiq has already shown more guts than him in SA and I expect him to do better than Misbah in Australia as well. He has done better in Sri Lanka too where the ball does a bit.

I am confident that in due time, before he is 40 years old, he will learn to fill his boots in the UAE like Misbah does.

Misbah is a tier-3 batsman in Pakistan history.

As far as Younis is concerned, before the Australian series last year, he did have this issue. Besides, you cannot compare the experience of a player like Younis to Asad. For someone who is supposed to be our best and most experienced batsman, he was not productive enough in the 2010-2013 period and never managed to dominate a series.

He couldn't even outscore Shafiq in SA in 2013 and failed both times on lively wickets in the 1st and 2nd Test, and went completely missing vs SA in UAE in 2013. However, he has been brilliant in 2014-2015.

 

[Mamoon]

Let me clarify here. I have no issues with Shehzad playing Test cricket in the UAE, he has done well here, but I prefer Hafeez because both have the same deficiencies but Hafeez gets his runs quicker.

In ODIs, just like Shafiq, I don't mind Shehzad as a back up. He is decent enough for that, but he should not be part of the first-choice XI, just like Shafiq shouldn't be.

I don't mind Shafiq as Haris' back up, who in my view can be a great batsman if he improves his fitness.

Also, I won't deny that Shehzad's terrible attitude is a huge turn-off.

 

[Mamoon]

Firstly, I will not blow my own trumpet and say that I am unbiased. From you to OP to pretty much every poster, there is considerable bias.

Secondly, I don't advocate Shafiq to be part of the first-choice XI in ODIs. I would like to see Azhar, Babar, Haris, Sarfraz, Malik and Rizwan as our top 6 moving forward. However, I have no issues with Shafiq being on the bench as back up, and the reason I wanted him to play in the ZIM ODIs was because I believed he needed match practice before the England Tests.

 

[dashing_man]

Hmm, u r right.
After all he has no right to play an innings where he does all the work. Its the fault of others, who dont create a conducive environment for him to score

He comes at no.6, do you expect batsmen to stay around him long every time

 

[Mamoon]

I'm not here to mock your boy Shafiq, man, like others are doing. So calm down.

And I don't want him dropped either, he's here to stay. But his deficiencies that are being pointed by other neutrals, you're not ready to accept them, and instead start attacking another player.

You don't see anyone pointing out things in Azhar. It's not because Azhar is loved by everyone. He has one problem, that is playing spin, but nobody comes and start attacking another player for pointing it out.

Yes I am not ready to accept his deficiencies, just like you are not ready to accept the deficiencies of your old man. Why is it right for me but right for you? If you will point fingers at me, I will oblige because I can.

Let me list his deficiencies:

1. He is timid
2. He needs to improve his timing.
3. Doesn't look very assured.
4. Needs to improve his consistency.

However, do not put words in my mouth - a bottler he is not, in fact he is comparatively better than most of the others.

Younis, Azhar and Sarfraz are the only three clutch players in the team, while Shafiq is a run below them.

I would rather trust him to score a ton in a precarious position than Misbah. There I said it.

Besides, no one has argued that he's better than Azhar, who is borderline world class and second to Younis only in our team.

 

[axl100mph]

Is that the only innings you've seen of him? What about the rest? What about his fastest hundred? Don't judge him on the basis of one innings where he took many blows for his team, yes he may be not a competent player of short bowling but that doesn't make him any less player and he makes up for it against other varieties.

Lol that fastest hundred where he scored majority of the runs against the spinners, n then feasted a bit on siddle who was bowling military medium after days of toil on the very same docile abu dhabi pitch we saw in this match.

N yes I m not judging misbah just on the basis of that resolute 69.

He has never been fluent against pace. In fact he cant even play a cover drive n tries to drag everything on the leg side.

The fact that he has never scored a hundred is coz, at the end of the innings when he has to up the scoring rate, its usually pacers who r in operation, against whom he hardly has many shots other than the flick to leg or the slog, which invariably costs him his wicket.

He is one of the biggest htb's in the world. There is a reason why he has failed everywhere barring the uae n probably nz (albeit against a pathetic attack n a team which was in a slump), where he still looks ungainly such as in his latest innings

Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk

 

[axl100mph]

dont think playing in different gears is his problem.

He has played a variety of good innings in all sorts of different circumstances.

Where he lacks is taking control of the situation and dominating the game. He doesnt get on top of the bowling side even when he has scored quite a few runs. Doesnt bat them into submission. Needs to play with more confidence and realize that his record is very good.

He doesnt hv the ability to dominate. period

Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk

 

[Slog]

He doesnt hv the ability to dominate. period

Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk

maybe who knows. Remains to be seen

but fact is that there are no grounds for him to be dropped regardless.Averaging 55 in 2015 and 4 centuries in last 7 tests.

Also for his position he is an one of the best we have had if not the best period.

Once Misbah goes he moves up and if he can put on same numbers then good. Otherwise if there are other options then move him.

Legends like Sobers, Chanderpaul, Ponting etc have played similar number of innings as him at number 6 and have similar or inferior records so you have to take into account that the position he plays in is tough.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yes he isn't dominant - no one has said that he is. He isn't in the class of Root, Kohli etc.

And has become a one-series wonder so far, like you used to bash YK for, no? You won't accept that either? And no matter how much you drag Misbah here, who himself is not even a Pak batting great in Tests (nobody even claimed that lol), Shafiq has a long long way to go. But he's picked and mentored by Misbah like Azhar, he might reach there, Azhar was just a good student who learned quickly.

There's nothing to add here because that will just create more disagreements. No player is unanimously loved by all the posters.

 

[axl100mph]

Yes he isn't dominant - no one has said that he is. He isn't in the class of Root, Kohli etc.

I only said so coz [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] still expressed a wish of shafiq becoming dominant when in reality what I've seen is that whenever he tries to come out of his shell he invariably ends up losing his wicket.
This is always the case in one day cricket where he is forced to play against his nature.

This is also why he needs a batsman at the other end to dominate so that he can ease into his innings and then feed off the momentum.

Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk

 

[axl100mph]

maybe who knows. Remains to be seen

but fact is that there are no grounds for him to be dropped regardless.Averaging 55 in 2015 and 4 centuries in last 7 tests.

Also for his position he is an one of the best we have had if not the best period.

Once Misbah goes he moves up and if he can put on same numbers then good. Otherwise if there are other options then move him.

Legends like Sobers, Chanderpaul, Ponting etc have played similar number of innings as him at number 6 and have similar or inferior records so you have to take into account that the position he plays in is tough.

Sobers, chanders, ponting didnt play in abu dhabi half the time.
Ponting used to play in conditions where the new ball actually did count n where u had to score most of the runs before it was taken.
u can argue that shafiq has had to be competent against spin in these conditions, although for an asian batsman, they r hardly taxing, definitely not like the minefields in india.

Well he isnt bad against spin, in fact is very good but can he take the game to them?
He can survive n milk them
But how many good spinners has he faced other than a declining herath.

Any stat that brings up a batsman like shafiq to be better than ponting should instantly be dispelled.

Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk

 

[Bullet Drive]

Shafiq gets too much hate.

It all comes because of ODI's. But he is a fine test batsman. He should really have about 10 test tons right now.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Asad Shafique should not be dropped . He should be persisted with . But he definitely needs to improve. After 5 years of test cricket not confidence should ooze from his batting and body language when he is playing which doesn't show. Especially for someone who has been permanent member of the team and someone whose batting position is so much fixed unlike Pakistan cricket.

I want him break Sir Gary Sobers record and than after Younis's retirement he should bat at number 4.

Timidness is a harsh word for a good player like Shafique something I would not want to use for him personally but it is fact based sorry to say.

For somebody who has got a good technique should not be inconsistent which he is slightly inconsistent and should not have those number of soft dismissals at benign deliveries.

Asad has scored in pressure situations aswell as flopped in pressure situations . With his ability he should have scored more in pressure situations than bottling most of the time .

If you see potential and capability , short range and technique I have no doubt he should have averaged 45 to 48 in test and 50+ in Fc cricket which hasn't been the case due o reasons people are rightly pointing which he needs to address.

He should learn from Ajinkya Rahane. When he starts playing like him which he has potential and ability than we ll say he has optimised his ability into performance fully.

How much you praise Azhar and Asad they have done a very decent job for Pakistan but they aren't in the league of younis and Misbah by any mean (Be it be how ugly or uncertain any of them loo while batting). Yes Misbah has been very lucky to have played majority of his cricket in UAE and would have struggled abit elsewhere. Yet Asad and Azhar have also played on same surfaces and it isn't as if Misbah's average is inflated due to being not out while standing as last man. He isn't pretty , isn't settled , isn't technically sound , no flair yet he has found a way to score runs and kill sessions which nobody can deny.

Who are the cricketers averaging 48+ in Fc cricket in pakistan ? Haris Sohail , Misbah ul haq , Mohammad yousuf, inzimam , miandad , Fawad Alam etc and there is a reason for that whether you like it or not . There is no Azhar and Asad in that list.

I don't think Azhar covers bases for younis khan or is on same path. Although he is a very good batsman who should be persisted with but let's not overestimate him as a player. After 5 years of test cricket playing world over what was younis averaging ? And after 5 years of test cricket playing 95 % of cricket in UAE , ban , Sri, zim , win what is Azhar averaging ?

If Azhar and Asad want to retire after 6 years in the league of Pakistan greats than they have to improve alot .

Potentially what I see babar Azam and Haris Sohail (fitness) have the ability to be among top 8 test batsman we have produced.

In test cricket there are two three types of impact players dominating players players who are headache for opposition team

Players like sehwag gayle Warner gilchrisht

Players like lara Tendulkar Ponting yousuf of 2005 to 2006 , pieterson , develliers , sangakara

People like Smith, Rahane, root.

I am sorry in pakistan test team two batsman are impact players only
1. Sarfraz Ahmed
2. Younis khan.

Busy players. Strike rotators. Players who kill the spinners and who can take the game away from opposition. Younis isn't impact player against pacers these days but every team has spinners and he just kills them and milks them. He was nightmare for harbhajan and kemble and for murali aswell sometimes. His and sarfraz's sweeps neutralised even herath. And getting down the wicket and unsettling length of spinners.

Than hafeez when on song (on flat tracks) is an impact player against both spin and pace.

Azhar and Asad haven't shown than yet. Shafique has slightly more impact compared to Asad but not much imposing as he should be. Whereas Azhar is a dogged player.

Azhar and Asad have decent stats and have served us well but it's high time they take their game to next level now since younis and Misbah will be retiring soon. To be a top 3 test team you need at least two players averaging 50 plus or near to 50. They are going to be mainstay of our batting so they now need to push on.

None of them should be dropped in favour of any other player. They are our future.

 

[MMHS]

Do you not think Shaans innings vs SL was under pressure?

Yes, but not every time he 'll be batting with a master at other end. For first 2 hours, YK kept attacking & scoreboard moving, later Shaan came to his own.

 

[axl100mph]

Asad Shafique should not be dropped . He should be persisted with . But he definitely needs to improve. After 5 years of test cricket not confidence should ooze from his batting and body language when he is playing which doesn't show. Especially for someone who has been permanent member of the team and someone whose batting position is so much fixed unlike Pakistan cricket.

I want him break Sir Gary Sobers record and than after Younis's retirement he should bat at number 4.

Timidness is a harsh word for a good player like Shafique something I would not want to use for him personally but it is fact based sorry to say.

For somebody who has got a good technique should not be inconsistent which he is slightly inconsistent and should not have those number of soft dismissals at benign deliveries.

Asad has scored in pressure situations aswell as flopped in pressure situations . With his ability he should have scored more in pressure situations than bottling most of the time .

If you see potential and capability , short range and technique I have no doubt he should have averaged 45 to 48 in test and 50+ in Fc cricket which hasn't been the case due o reasons people are rightly pointing which he needs to address.

He should learn from Ajinkya Rahane. When he starts playing like him which he has potential and ability than we ll say he has optimised his ability into performance fully.

How much you praise Azhar and Asad they have done a very decent job for Pakistan but they aren't in the league of younis and Misbah by any mean (Be it be how ugly or uncertain any of them loo while batting). Yes Misbah has been very lucky to have played majority of his cricket in UAE and would have struggled abit elsewhere. Yet Asad and Azhar have also played on same surfaces and it isn't as if Misbah's average is inflated due to being not out while standing as last man. He isn't pretty , isn't settled , isn't technically sound , no flair yet he has found a way to score runs and kill sessions which nobody can deny.

Who are the cricketers averaging 48+ in Fc cricket in pakistan ? Haris Sohail , Misbah ul haq , Mohammad yousuf, inzimam , miandad , Fawad Alam etc and there is a reason for that whether you like it or not . There is no Azhar and Asad in that list.

I don't think Azhar covers bases for younis khan or is on same path. Although he is a very good batsman who should be persisted with but let's not overestimate him as a player. After 5 years of test cricket playing world over what was younis averaging ? And after 5 years of test cricket playing 95 % of cricket in UAE , ban , Sri, zim , win what is Azhar averaging ?

If Azhar and Asad want to retire after 6 years in the league of Pakistan greats than they have to improve alot .

Potentially what I see babar Azam and Haris Sohail (fitness) have the ability to be among top 8 test batsman we have produced.

In test cricket there are two three types of impact players dominating players players who are headache for opposition team

Players like sehwag gayle Warner gilchrisht

Players like lara Tendulkar Ponting yousuf of 2005 to 2006 , pieterson , develliers , sangakara

People like Smith, Rahane, root.

I am sorry in pakistan test team two batsman are impact players only
1. Sarfraz Ahmed
2. Younis khan.

Busy players. Strike rotators. Players who kill the spinners and who can take the game away from opposition. Younis isn't impact player against pacers these days but every team has spinners and he just kills them and milks them. He was nightmare for harbhajan and kemble and for murali aswell sometimes. His and sarfraz's sweeps neutralised even herath. And getting down the wicket and unsettling length of spinners.

Than hafeez when on song (on flat tracks) is an impact player against both spin and pace.

Azhar and Asad haven't shown than yet. Shafique has slightly more impact compared to Asad but not much imposing as he should be. Whereas Azhar is a dogged player.

Azhar and Asad have decent stats and have served us well but it's high time they take their game to next level now since younis and Misbah will be retiring soon. To be a top 3 test team you need at least two players averaging 50 plus or near to 50. They are going to be mainstay of our batting so they now need to push on.

None of them should be dropped in favour of any other player. They are our future.

Shafiq doesnt hv the hand eye or the abilty to pick length at the level of somebody like rahane.
He remains timid coz that is the best way the can succeed.

Whenever he tries to be flashy he ends up losing his wicket.

People should stop expecting him to turn into a stroke player coz he does not have that ability.
What defines a good stroke player is how he picks up length n his handeye coordination.
Shafiq has neither

Haris, babar n umar, had all these three played the same number of tests in the uae as asad n azhar did, they would hv had better records n we would hv won more matches as opposed to drawing them.

Sent from my CHM-U01 using Tapatalk

 

[Hawkeye]

Asad Shafique should not be dropped . He should be persisted with . But he definitely needs to improve. After 5 years of test cricket not confidence should ooze from his batting and body language when he is playing which doesn't show. Especially for someone who has been permanent member of the team and someone whose batting position is so much fixed unlike Pakistan cricket.

I want him break Sir Gary Sobers record and than after Younis's retirement he should bat at number 4.

Timidness is a harsh word for a good player like Shafique something I would not want to use for him personally but it is fact based sorry to say.

For somebody who has got a good technique should not be inconsistent which he is slightly inconsistent and should not have those number of soft dismissals at benign deliveries.

Asad has scored in pressure situations aswell as flopped in pressure situations . With his ability he should have scored more in pressure situations than bottling most of the time .

If you see potential and capability , short range and technique I have no doubt he should have averaged 45 to 48 in test and 50+ in Fc cricket which hasn't been the case due o reasons people are rightly pointing which he needs to address.

He should learn from Ajinkya Rahane. When he starts playing like him which he has potential and ability than we ll say he has optimised his ability into performance fully.

How much you praise Azhar and Asad they have done a very decent job for Pakistan but they aren't in the league of younis and Misbah by any mean (Be it be how ugly or uncertain any of them loo while batting). Yes Misbah has been very lucky to have played majority of his cricket in UAE and would have struggled abit elsewhere. Yet Asad and Azhar have also played on same surfaces and it isn't as if Misbah's average is inflated due to being not out while standing as last man. He isn't pretty , isn't settled , isn't technically sound , no flair yet he has found a way to score runs and kill sessions which nobody can deny.

Who are the cricketers averaging 48+ in Fc cricket in pakistan ? Haris Sohail , Misbah ul haq , Mohammad yousuf, inzimam , miandad , Fawad Alam etc and there is a reason for that whether you like it or not . There is no Azhar and Asad in that list.

I don't think Azhar covers bases for younis khan or is on same path. Although he is a very good batsman who should be persisted with but let's not overestimate him as a player. After 5 years of test cricket playing world over what was younis averaging ? And after 5 years of test cricket playing 95 % of cricket in UAE , ban , Sri, zim , win what is Azhar averaging ?

If Azhar and Asad want to retire after 6 years in the league of Pakistan greats than they have to improve alot .

Potentially what I see babar Azam and Haris Sohail (fitness) have the ability to be among top 8 test batsman we have produced.

In test cricket there are two three types of impact players dominating players players who are headache for opposition team

Players like sehwag gayle Warner gilchrisht

Players like lara Tendulkar Ponting yousuf of 2005 to 2006 , pieterson , develliers , sangakara

People like Smith, Rahane, root.

I am sorry in pakistan test team two batsman are impact players only
1. Sarfraz Ahmed
2. Younis khan.

Busy players. Strike rotators. Players who kill the spinners and who can take the game away from opposition. Younis isn't impact player against pacers these days but every team has spinners and he just kills them and milks them. He was nightmare for harbhajan and kemble and for murali aswell sometimes. His and sarfraz's sweeps neutralised even herath. And getting down the wicket and unsettling length of spinners.

Than hafeez when on song (on flat tracks) is an impact player against both spin and pace.

Azhar and Asad haven't shown than yet. Shafique has slightly more impact compared to Asad but not much imposing as he should be. Whereas Azhar is a dogged player.

Azhar and Asad have decent stats and have served us well but it's high time they take their game to next level now since younis and Misbah will be retiring soon. To be a top 3 test team you need at least two players averaging 50 plus or near to 50. They are going to be mainstay of our batting so they now need to push on.

None of them should be dropped in favour of any other player. They are our future.

A very good post. All should accept it with an open heart and mind. No one wants Shafiq dropped, but he has to address his issues, which are becoming prominent as his experience increases. 5 years at a fixed spot, nobody gets in Pakistan. He's a decent player so far.

Hafeez is a beauty when on song, and he has been scoring in almsot every match since the last year, agreed. However, he's dangerous for foreign tours, albeit less risk than Malik as Hafeez has tons of experience playing in the top order.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Hafeez is a beauty when on song, and he has been scoring in almsot every match since the last year, agreed. However, he's dangerous for foreign tours, albeit less risk than Malik as Hafeez has tons of experience playing in the top order.

Ideally shoaib malik no hafeez should not go to England and New Zealand tour. Whereas in Australia hafeez has more chance to succeed than malik as a batsman.

But if Malik scores one more hundred in this series and hafeez does also , India Pakistan test series doesn't go ahead and in last odi series before England tour against whichever team that is both hafeez and malik score runs and show form than both will go to England.

When in pakistan have you seen a performing player been dropped for foreign tour saying he isn't good for those surfaces ? It will never ever happen.

If you ask me I ll take any 2 of usman salahuddin, babar Azam or Haris Sohail (permitting fitness plus short ball play) but if Malik and hafeez make one more ton in remaining 2 tests and perform in last of series before England tour than it will be writing on the wall that they will be selected for Pakistan team irrespective of conditions. That's pakistan cricket.

 

[axl100mph]

A very good post. All should accept it with an open heart and mind. No one wants Shafiq dropped, but he has to address his issues, which are becoming prominent as his experience increases. 5 years at a fixed spot, nobody gets in Pakistan. He's a decent player so far.

Hafeez is a beauty when on song, and he has been scoring in almsot every match since the last year, agreed. However, he's dangerous for foreign tours, albeit less risk than Malik as Hafeez has tons of experience playing in the top order.

Shafiq doesnt hv a higher ceiling.
He is only gonna stagnate from here on in as saturation point is very close if not reached
An honest trier but lacks ability to be the big thing

 

[pasha404]

fully agree the guy can't play under pressure or if you don't drop his catch

 

[11ShadyBrothers]

Am surprised to see Mamoon going out on a limb for shafiq but the facts he hates Shehzad so much. Just doesn't make sense at all

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

Shafiq kei dewanay accuse others of double standards and all and look at their own condition.

 

[11ShadyBrothers]

I've to disagree with your assessment on Misbah, his batting is anything but scratchy, Come on! He's rock solid and doesn't give you the impression that he's gonna nick one or get LBW easily unlike Shafiq who finds ways to get out to harmless deliveries when underpressure.

Have to agree. Misbah is a solid test bat and its ridiculous to compare him to shafiq.

I mean look at the way they start the innings. Misbah has a confident approach whereas shafiq has a timid and scratchy approach just like YK (actually more worse).

 

[Haroon786]

Thats slog's typical technique to divert attention or to intimidate when he himself is a banned/dual account lmao.
Good analysis. Something i have to come of to see as of late as well.

If you know [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] is a DA than discuss it with the mods in the MRR.

 

[Mainul]

Pakistan invested a lot on a wrong guy in Asad shafiq. My observation is same as OP. And most of the comments here i see also supports my observation.
The main negative thing about Shafiq is he is not improving as a batsman at all since his debut. He always seemed to me at best as an average batsman, most of the time a below par. He deceives everybody to be a good looking with a solid defense batsman. But he was never consistent. Even in his first innings hundred here he gave a simple chance perhaps when he was on 10. He will definitely struggle a lot on English, SA NZ and Aus condition. A ton in SA is credible but he failed in other innings there. He will have to prove next year when Pakistan tour NZ, Aus.i think he will fail miserably there. Haris Sohail or Fawad Alam would have performed and improved a lot better if they were given 5 years like him. He cant rotate strike cant change gear on even phatta wickets and he often gives chances to opposition.

 

[jusarrived]

I dont think Pak has a batsmen apart from YK whos good under pressure . in Asads cases it too early to judge imo

 

[jusarrived]

Pakistan invested a lot on a wrong guy in Asad shafiq. My observation is same as OP. And most of the comments here i see also supports my observation.
The main negative thing about Shafiq is he is not improving as a batsman at all since his debut. He always seemed to me at best as an average batsman, most of the time a below par. He deceives everybody to be a good looking with a solid defense batsman. But he was never consistent. Even in his first innings hundred here he gave a simple chance perhaps when he was on 10. He will definitely struggle a lot on English, SA NZ and Aus condition. A ton in SA is credible but he failed in other innings there. He will have to prove next year when Pakistan tour NZ, Aus.i think he will fail miserably there. Haris Sohail or Fawad Alam would have performed and improved a lot better if they were given 5 years like him. He cant rotate strike cant change gear on even phatta wickets and he often gives chances to opposition.

Asad >>>>>> Fawad . Infact his technique is far superior to Harris as well . As a test player Pak did the right thing in investing in Asad .

 

[11ShadyBrothers]

If you know [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] is a DA than discuss it with the mods in the MRR.

Like you discussed mine when you were falsely accusing me? Unlike you, slog and rest of your buddies i dont lower to the level where i have to accuse others of having dual accounts as an argument. I just dont care.

 

[Haroon786]

Like you discussed mine when you were falsely accusing me? Unlike you, slog and rest of your buddies i dont lower to the level where i have to accuse others of having dual accounts as an argument. I just dont care.

If you don't accuse others of DAS, then what did you just accuse [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] of ?

 

[Slog]

One word: Hypocrisy

good job. Also lol at 'dont care' and then accusations. Pick one.

 

[11ShadyBrothers]

If you don't accuse others of DAS, then what did you just accuse [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] of ?

I just called out the hypocrisy. You dont throw stones when you live in a glass house.

Also, why didnt you go to the MRR when you were falsely accusing me. Why preach something that you dont do yourself? Hypocritical much?

 

[Slog]

There's no hypocrisy or glass houses.

Mods more often than not know who was a previously banned poster making a return as well as the identity.

Some of the senior mods have been around for a while so don't think anyone is fooling anyone. It is very easy to spot any ways.

Any ways thread has been derailed too much. My only point was the surprise at a poster who signed 3 days ago knowing who is a fanboy of who and to top it off using the oft quoted lurker card

 

[Mamoon]

And has become a one-series wonder so far, like you used to bash YK for, no? You won't accept that either? And no matter how much you drag Misbah here, who himself is not even a Pak batting great in Tests (nobody even claimed that lol), Shafiq has a long long way to go. But he's picked and mentored by Misbah like Azhar, he might reach there, Azhar was just a good student who learned quickly.

There's nothing to add here because that will just create more disagreements. No player is unanimously loved by all the posters.

The issue regarding Younis was clarified in #97 so I don't know why it flew over your heard. You cannot compare an experienced campaigner like Younis to Shafiq in the last 5 years or so. Younis has been our main batsmen and you certainly expect him to be more than just a one innings wonder per series which he was between 2010 and 2014. He went missing in the UAE vs. SA as well, which is was our toughest series in this period barring the 2013 tour of SA where he couldn't even outscore Shafiq who was touring SA for the first time.

However, he did put things right last year vs. Australia.

If you compare Shafiq to Younis at a similar age and number of matches, there is not much of a difference, but Younis had a breakthrough year in 2005-2006 and since then he has been very consistent in terms of scoring runs and hundreds.

Shafiq has been batting with a handbrake but has still managed 8 hundreds and his best years are ahead of him. After the retirement of Younis and Misbah, there will be more responsibility on his and Azhar's shoulders to try and time will tell if they are going to be able to deal with that. I'd like to see him bat at 4 in the long-term and let's see if his consistency improves and if he can do more than score one hundred every series which I think is good enough at this stage; he is not a player in the class of Kohli, Root, Williamson, Smith etc.

Reason I brought your hero into the discussion is because you have mentioned numerous times that he and others have a long way to go before they can catch King Misbah Rescue 911, as if he has reached the pantheons of batting himself. I'd repeat, if players like Shafiq, Haris, Azhar, Babar, Rizwan etc. do not end up as superior batsmen to Misbah by the time they retire, they should be regarded as wasted talents.

Misbah's legacy has to do with his leadership and how he steadied Pakistan cricket with his calmness when it was on the brink of implosion; as a batsman, his legacy is of a half-decent ODI batsman who was never good enough to score a single a hundred and a Test batsman who was a certified failure everywhere but 2-3 venues, and never had the ability to score big, players like Azhar and Shafiq are already better than him in an aspect or two (Azhar scoring big; Shafiq doing better in variety of conditions).

Yes there is nothing more to discuss here, because I love how the premise of his thread has gone from 'he cannot bat under pressure and scores soft runs' to 'he is inconsistent'.

The former argument has been thoroughly negated by a few people here in spite of your attempts to revise history, such as Sarfraz got us the lead when he actually dismissed and exposed the tail when we were 65 runs behind.

As far as his inconsistency is concerned, everyone has agreed upon the fact that he needs to cut down on his single digit scores a bit, and do more, so there is no point in pressing that issue further.

 

[Mamoon]

Shafiq kei dewanay accuse others of double standards and all and look at their own condition.

Every poster on this forum has a soft corner for XYZ player, but it is comic when Hawkeye criticizes these Shafiq, Shehzad, Malik fan clubs etc. all day and accuses others for irrational support, when his own obsession with Misbah trumps everyone else's emphatically.

 

[11ShadyBrothers]

Every poster on this forum has a soft corner for XYZ player, but it is comic when Hawkeye criticizes these Shafiq, Shehzad, Malik fan clubs etc. all day and accuses others for irrational support, when his own obsession with Misbah trumps everyone else's emphatically.

I am glad that you have come to this understanding. Truly needed someone to step on your shoe. Everyone has soft corner for certain players and therefore using these derogatory terms like dewanay etc. are not cool. Wish you have shown this amount of understanding when you and the group were calling me names. Now, the step is on your own and the group's shoe they are being all mature and understanding. Hoping to see consistency in this regard.

 

[Haroon786]

Every poster on this forum has a soft corner for XYZ player, but it is comic when Hawkeye criticizes these Shafiq, Shehzad, Malik fan clubs etc. all day and accuses others for irrational support, when his own obsession with Misbah trumps everyone else's emphatically.

Please speak for yourself.

 

[Hawkeye]

Every poster on this forum has a soft corner for XYZ player, but it is comic when Hawkeye criticizes these Shafiq, Shehzad, Malik fan clubs etc. all day and accuses others for irrational support, when his own obsession with Misbah trumps everyone else's emphatically.

You're again blaming others for what you've been doing, as pointed out by others. Trying to divert the topic was not a good move either. Misbah is a solid Test bat, not an ATG, and he deserves respect for that, plays with authority and class. He ain't above criticism for me, but in your case you're going on total backfoot against your boy Shafiq. Shafiq has a long way to come near him as a package lol, and can't even think about ODIs, averaging highest from Asia in overseas conditions. It'd be great if Shafiq can learn consistency from his mentor.

The thread has served its purpose though, with most agreeing Shafiq is showing bad signs after a run of 5 years at fixed spot - he should rather have become a player that we could rely on, but it just doesn't give me confidence when I think Shafiq is to come next. Azhar, YK, Misbah, Sarfraz are the batsmen I can blindly rely on.

 

[Mamoon]

I am glad that you have come to this understanding. Truly needed someone to step on your shoe. Everyone has soft corner for certain players and therefore using these derogatory terms like dewanay etc. are not cool. Wish you have shown this amount of understanding when you and the group were calling me names. Now, the step is on your own and the group's shoe they are being all mature and understanding. Hoping to see consistency in this regard.

It is not normal for anyone to be 100% impartial - the level of impartiality can differ, but only to an extent. Why should it be different from me? Have I ever claimed that I am 100% free of bias? However, I don't and have never denied the shortcomings in xyz players, unfortunately same cannot be said for some who believe the sun shines out of the backside of a certain player because they like him.

The problem with Shehzad fan club is that they will go to the hilt to defend the blatant attitude problems of their hero. Players like Shafiq, Misbah, Malik etc. do not have this problem. I'd say that if Shehzad didn't have attitude issues he won't get half the hate that goes his way. Similarly, if his supporters would be man enough to acknowledge that he is a complete tool, they would not be called out on it.

 

[Mamoon]

You're again blaming others for what you've been doing, as pointed out by others. Trying to divert the topic was not a good move either. Misbah is a solid Test bat, not an ATG, and he deserves respect for that, plays with authority and class. He ain't above criticism for me, but in your case you're going on total backfoot against your boy Shafiq. Shafiq has a long way to come near him as a package lol, and can't even think about ODIs, averaging highest from Asia in overseas conditions. It'd be great if Shafiq can learn consistency from his mentor.

The irony. Your blatant fanboyism was documented yesterday in the match thread when you claimed that it is okay if Misbah threw his wicket away because he had saved the match already, but after a while when England were all over us, you were nowhere to be found, and later you start gloating over how Misbah accepted his mistake and others wouldn't have in his stead. If this isn't a class backfoot tuk, what is?

Regarding me going backfoot in this thread, do you have problems reading? How many times have I stated in this very thread that he has issues? he is timid, not confident, not a good timer of the ball and he needs to impose himself more? Should I accept your criticism just because . . . . ?

Thwarting your assessment that he is a bottler and exposing your lies is not called going on the backfoot. Don't expect people to call you out when your argument is irrational.

Others can see why I have diverted this thread, because you are the single biggest individual fanboy on this forum yet you have the audacity to attack Malik, Shehzad, Shafiq fans etc. all day.

Misbah is a better ODI batsman than Younis, but who is a greater player overall? Of course Younis. It is unlikely that Shafiq will ever do well or cement his place in ODIs, but he should be very disappointed with himself if he does not end up as a superior Test batsman to Misbah by the time he retires, and if he does, he will be remembered as a greater batsman.

The thread has served its purpose though, with most agreeing Shafiq is showing bad signs after a run of 5 years at fixed spot - he should rather have become a player that we could rely on, but it just doesn't give me confidence when I think Shafiq is to come next. Azhar, YK, Misbah, Sarfraz are the batsmen I can blindly rely on.

Yes it has, and it flopped pretty quickly before you shifted the goalposts from 'bottler' to 'inconsistent'.

Younis and Azhar are certainly more reliable overall and Sarfraz in these conditions, who has to prove himself outside of Asia/Subcontinent because he looked like fish out of water in South Africa, but no doubt he is a very gutsy player.

As far as Misbah is concerned, I can certainly rely on him blindly to score 50-60 and then throw his wicket away in pathetic fashion with an Umar Akmal like slog to long-on or Cow Corner when the going gets tough, but yes fill his boots in Abu Dhabi after the top-order lays a solid platform. That has been the story of Misbah's batting in Tests in the last year and a half.

Good that you can blindly rely on King Misbah Rescue 911 who has just about 2 pressure hundreds in 2 years (SA 2013; SL 2014).

 

[Hawkeye]

Repeating the same thing won't change anything, the debate has ended and we've all put our viewpoints across on Shafiq that how he's turning out to be. You have a right to go on a defense and backfoot for him, all have a free opinion.

 

[Slog]

Repeating the same thing won't change anything, the debate has ended and we've all put our viewpoints across on Shafiq that how he's turning out to be. You have a right to go on a defense and backfoot for him, all have a free opinion.

The premise of the thread was that he is a failure in pressure situations and a bottler, whereas that view has been roundly rejected. Only thing which has been agreed upon by most people is that he is not assertive enough and is sometimes inconsistent which no one has denied to begin with.

Thread has been a big fail in regards to the title

 

[Hawkeye]

The premise of the thread was that he is a failure in pressure situations and a bottler, whereas that view has been roundly rejected. Only thing which has been agreed upon by most people is that he is not assertive enough and is sometimes inconsistent which no one has denied to begin with.

Thread has been a big fail in regards to the title

It has been rejected in your own fairy world, not in reality and many posters have addressed this. Bringing up 2-3 innings out of 60+ don't mean anything. Without even searching stats I can name 5 where he was needed but didn't show up, and has become a one-series wonder. 4 just against Zimbabwe, then against SL.

If it makes you feel better that 'this thread is a fail' or 'failing under pressure' was not proven, you can continue to believe it without reading any of the posts by the neturals. It's only you two who have been defending him like true fans, gotta give you that. Though I'm glad you're not resorting to attacking other players. We all want better things for Shafiq and will not hate on him in other threads.

 

[Mamoon]

Name more than 3-4 pressure hundreds of Misbah. Let me spew further hate.

Back-foot lol. We all saw your apologetic tuk tuking in the match-day thread yesterday, when you were prepared to even defend King Misbah Rescue 911 after he threw his wicket away 'because he had saved the match', but then went into hiding when England were all over us.

Like I said, you should be the very last person on this forum accusing others of irrational support for a particular player and going on the back-foot to protect their honor.

 

[Hawkeye]

Your hate is quite unbelievable, I obviously won't be wasting my effort to prove the authority of captain solid, but seems like he doing well really does irks you and you end up having a bad day.

Running around in threads, calling names after the player you don't like, attacking him at every opportunity and deviating every topic with his obsession are the qualities which you're showing, irrationality is on display here but you're unable to see it.

That's the difference between our stance on Shafiq vs. your hate -- we don't troll threads and attack Shafiq on every opportunity, call him names etc., but you're becoming quite good at it.

I think you can still come back to being a bit rational, so I have hopes.

 

[Slog]

^^ Omg the irony.

 

[Hawkeye]

^^ Omg the irony.

You'll find it every where - no one's free from it, but Mamoon claiming to be the saint here. All have favorites. But we don't attack Shafiq in every thread, or derive pleasure from him failing or pray for him to fail, like he has been doing for some time. Now again his reply will come claiming how "i'm" the culprit, but we all are.

Anyways... you two have stood up against the whole PP, credit where due.

 

[Slog]

Anyways... you two have stood up against the whole PP, credit where due.

Not hard considering his great record

 

[Mamoon]

What name calling? Didn't you call him King Misbah Rescue 911 yesterday, right before his horrendous cross-batted swipe against Moeen?

Why is it right for you but wrong for me? Or only certified Misbah heads can use this term?

What do you mean by wasting your effort to prove the authority of Captain solid? What asked you to prove his authority? In case you didn't notice, I've said many times that he deserves credit for his calm leadership amidst the storm, but here I asked you a simple question: name more than 3-4 pressure hundreds by Misbah in his career, that is all.

Instead, you have changed the channel and have come up with vague statements - what we like to call in Urdu 'aye bayen shayen'.

I know why you did that - Because he doesn't have many.

 

[Pete Rose]

I think there is no question of any better batsman than Shafiq in current position. My building frustration lies with his inability to take advantage of the job security he has to be more expressive at the crease.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Am surprised to see Mamoon going out on a limb for shafiq but the facts he hates Shehzad so much. Just doesn't make sense at all

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

Shafiq is a team player. Shehzad is not

 

[Stallion__]

He is one of those players who have to perform in every match to satisfy fans.

Thats the price such players has to pay for not being tagged as talented early in their career

 

[Kaka4pope]

Shafiq is a good test bat and for me, he's technically better than Azhar.

When the seniors depart, he should be pushed up the order. He can be a big accumulator of runs and it would make sense for a Haris type to be at 6.

Shafiq should be tried at 4 when the time comes, a lot more responsibility but I think he is well equipped. Compact batsman, which I like....

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Asad Shafiq has 8 hundreds from 61 innings, whereas Misbah has 8 from 102 innings.

Of course, Asad should be disappointed if he doesn't end his career with an overall better record than Misbah, especially when playing so much cricket in the UAE.

I don't think either player is world class. Perhaps Asad will prove me wrong, but I doubt it. He's not anywhere near as good as Moyo was, and Moyo was a letdown a lot of the time overseas.

 

[Slog]

Asad Shafiq has 8 hundreds from 61 innings, whereas Misbah has 8 from 102 innings.

Of course, Asad should be disappointed if he doesn't end his career with an overall better record than Misbah, especially when playing so much cricket in the UAE.

I don't think either player is world class. Perhaps Asad will prove me wrong, but I doubt it. He's not anywhere near as good as Moyo was, and Moyo was a letdown a lot of the time overseas.

MoYo is one of our best bats ever so dont think the comparison is fair. Dont think at this point anyone claims him to be in the conversation for our best bat ever.

Also its probably not a good comparison to compare Misbah century count to Shafiq considering its relatively harder for #6 due to many times playing with the tail, or trying to up the rate or attempting to save the match, all of which reduce your chances of a century.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

MoYo is one of our best bats ever so dont think the comparison is fair. Dont think at this point anyone claims him to be in the conversation for our best bat ever.

Also its probably not a good comparison to compare Misbah century count to Shafiq considering its relatively harder for #6 due to many times playing with the tail, or trying to up the rate or attempting to save the match, all of which reduce your chances of a century.

Well in that case he should be doubly disappointed if he doesn't end up with a better record than Misbah.

As far as Moyo goes, I mean he's nowhere near the player Moyo was at the same stage of his career - and Moyo mostly averaged in the 20s and 30s in countries like SA and Aus.

 

[Slog]

Well in that case he should be doubly disappointed if he doesn't end up with a better record than Misbah.

how come? considering he bats at a more difficult position

I think in the next year or so if Asad puts up a good performances on our away tours to England and Australia (average near 50 with couple centuries), he would have surpassed Misbah and a few others. As it is the bar is not very high.

I hope Azhar and him do well on our away tours because they are the ones I think have best chance to do well there. Dont have much hopes from openers, Misbah (if he is still around because he has been looking past it recently). YK dont know

 

[Haroon786]

You'll find it every where - no one's free from it, but Mamoon claiming to be the saint here. All have favorites. But we don't attack Shafiq in every thread, or derive pleasure from him failing or pray for him to fail, like he has been doing for some time. Now again his reply will come claiming how "i'm" the culprit, but we all are.

Anyways... you two have stood up against the whole PP, credit where due.

You need to read through this thread again and see how many posters actually agree with your conjecture.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

how come? considering he bats at a more difficult position

Setting aside Asad for a second, what makes you think no. 6 is a difficult position to bat in compared to 3 or 4 or 5 or opening?

It is the position that new (non-opening) batsmen are usually slotted in to, as it is considered easier than batting higher up the order as the ball is most likely going to be older by the time you come in, giving you time to settle in. There is also every chance for you to bat with a specialist batsman and then following you is the wicketkeeper who can also bat and then if you're lucky an all-rounder or at least the best batsman of the bowlers and the rest of the tail. It's not like you don't have an opportunity to score. Gilchrist scored most of his 17 centuries at no. 7.

If you're 50/3 or 100/3, both of which are common in test cricket, do you think it's easier coming in at 5 than coming in at 6? If so why? Conversely, if you're 250/3, what's so hard about coming in at 6? Most likely, there'll be more runs added before you even have to come in - perhaps 270/4 or 300/4.

 

[Slog]

Setting aside Asad for a second, what makes you think no. 6 is a difficult position to bat in compared to 3 or 4 or 5 or opening?

It is the position that new (non-opening) batsmen are usually slotted in to, as it is considered easier than batting higher up the order as the ball is most likely going to be older by the time you come in, giving you time to settle in. There is also every chance for you to bat with a specialist batsman and then following you is the wicketkeeper who can also bat and then if you're lucky an all-rounder or at least the best batsman of the bowlers and the rest of the tail. It's not like you don't have an opportunity to score. Gilchrist scored most of his 17 centuries at no. 7.

If you're 50/3 or 100/3, both of which are common in test cricket, do you think it's easier coming in at 5 than coming in at 6? If so why? Conversely, if you're 250/3, what's so hard about coming in at 6? Most likely, there'll be more runs added before you even have to come in - perhaps 270/4 or 300/4.

Number 6 is harder than some others imo because you face the old ball and associated reverse as well as the new ball as the new ball often gets taken during the time no.6 maybe batting. If it's going good then by the time no.4 and no.5 are in the ball is often at its best period for a batsman. Neither old enough nor new whereas generally its not same for no.6. Of course I'm talking about the general likelihood here and not cases of baiting domination or huge collapses. Let's not bring Gilchrist and compare the batsmen and the platform he had with what our batsmen provide.

I think no.4 and no.5 are easiest positions to bat whereas openers and no.6 and the hardest. (Openers maybe more). No.3 is tough too but no.7 often does not have the same expectations as a no.6 batsmen so it's less pressure. Number 6 batsman is the most likely to face both the reversing old ball and the new ball as well doses of spin.

Also openers and no.3 and no.4 often have set roles whereas the no.6 has to bat in a variety of situations. If the score is big then you have really charge and score at a higher rate. If there is a collapse then you have to help rebuild. From a tactical standpoint a lot more nous is required.

 

[Slog]

^ also just to add some ATGs have played many innings at no.6 position and their record at that position is vastly inferior to their records up the order. Shafiqs record is comparable to them after similar number of innings which at the very minimum means he has done okay.

You usually play your best batsman (non opener) at no.4 usually in order to maximise their output and also provide them the best position and platform to make a contribution

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Shafiq is a good player, not yet a great player, still inconsistent, and in tests should not be discussed of him being removed as he has been a staple for the team, and has been great overall at the #6 position, which is a difficult position to bat at in tests for a full fledge batsmen.

We have invested a lot of time and effort into him and he still has issues (in tests, do not want him anywhere near the ODI squad) but given his position, it is hard to really fault him.

When we do well and he doesn't really get the opportunity to shine, he isn't discussed because he simply didn't get the chance, but then if everyone else falters, and he also falters, everyone is on his case that he is a failure.

Well no, he bats at 6, has done pretty well there, doesn't get the luxury on flat wickets to score double centuries because 1-5 do and score 500+ without him, and then when they all falter, he has to every single time score a century when he finally gets his chance at 100-4 or 150-4 otherwise he is a failure.

A bit of an unfair expectation.

He is no world beater, but a very solid #6 who will probably move to 4-5 when Misbah and YK retire and I would assume with more time at the crease and not having to rescue an innings, he will do pretty well.

I don't know of course for sure, but I mean deductive reasoning would insinuate as such.

 

[Mamoon]

Ilan Bluestone is ruling PP in his first two months. Quite an achievement.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Shafiq is a good player, not yet a great player, still inconsistent, and in tests should not be discussed of him being removed as he has been a staple for the team, and has been great overall at the #6 position, which is a difficult position to bat at in tests for a full fledge batsmen.

We have invested a lot of time and effort into him and he still has issues (in tests, do not want him anywhere near the ODI squad) but given his position, it is hard to really fault him.

When we do well and he doesn't really get the opportunity to shine, he isn't discussed because he simply didn't get the chance, but then if everyone else falters, and he also falters, everyone is on his case that he is a failure.

Well no, he bats at 6, has done pretty well there, doesn't get the luxury on flat wickets to score double centuries because 1-5 do and score 500+ without him, and then when they all falter, he has to every single time score a century when he finally gets his chance at 100-4 or 150-4 otherwise he is a failure.

A bit of an unfair expectation.

He is no world beater, but a very solid #6 who will probably move to 4-5 when Misbah and YK retire and I would assume with more time at the crease and not having to rescue an innings, he will do pretty well.

I don't know of course for sure, but I mean deductive reasoning would insinuate as such.

Good post

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Ilan Bluestone is ruling PP in his first two months. Quite an achievement.

Praise from a legend, I am but a measly peasant in the eyes of greatness

Thank you though.

Been fun here, but at times can get a bit tiresome with the nonsensical arguments.

 

[I Believe in the Teesra]

Bumpity bump bump

 

[Mamoon]

Praise from a legend, I am but a measly peasant in the eyes of greatness

Thank you though.

Been fun here, but at times can get a bit tiresome with the nonsensical arguments.

Thank you, flattered. I think the variety adds to the beauty of this forum.