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Australia destroyed England with their B team

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tyron_woodley

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Even without starc and hazelwood who are bother better than siddle and Pattinson. Pattinson vs hazelwood is a close on but hazelwood is a better bowler in overseas conditions. At home I give the edge to Patto.
No matter what way you spin it, 34 year old siddle isn't better than starc. Siddle is relatively consistent in being economical but starc can clean up the tail with ease and can bat just as well if not better. So Australia's B side bowling attack was good enough to beat England.

Anderson bowling or not they would have lost regardless as Aussies weren't even full strength.

England should have picked sam curran imo. Not thay he would habe helped them win but he can bat deep and is far better than overrated moeen.

oh and Steve smith is the GOAT of test cricket.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Starc and Hazlewood are not better than Pattinson.
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they are better away from home. At home is where Pattinson dominates. I watch the Sheffield cup every year and no patto is definitely not better than hazelwood/starc. People in Australia fear starc. They don't even like facing him in nets.
 
tyron_woodley said:
they are better away from home. At home is where Pattinson dominates. I watch the Sheffield cup every year and no patto is definitely not better than hazelwood/starc. People in Australia fear starc. They don't even like facing him in nets.
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Patto took a 5-fer in India when everyone else was falling apart. Starc was very scattershot during the Indian series. Siddle over Hazlewood/Starc is questionable but Siddle justified his selection by being very accurate and also providing valuable support to Smudge.
 
tyron_woodley said:
they are better away from home. At home is where Pattinson dominates. I watch the Sheffield cup every year and no patto is definitely not better than hazelwood/starc. People in Australia fear starc. They don't even like facing him in nets.
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You can watch whatever you want. You don't know what you are talking about. Pattinson has always been Australia's #1 option in tests.
 
leatherface58 said:
Patto took a 5-fer in India when everyone else was falling apart. Starc was very scattershot during the Indian series. Siddle over Hazlewood/Starc is questionable but Siddle justified his selection by being very accurate and also providing valuable support to Smudge.
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they got spanked 4 0 and Patto took a 5 for in a match that was already lost. Doesn't count. Hazelwood is better than him easily.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
You can watch whatever you want. You don't know what you are talking about. Pattinson has always been Australia's #1 option in tests.
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No he isn't. cummins is number 1 and then starc and hazelwood follows. Patto has just come back from an injury. He is good but still not on the level of hazelwood and starc.
 
Patto and Cummins are the best bowlers Australia have. They suffered due to injury.

Starc,on other hand, is too one-dimensional and Hazlewood is quite overrated itself.

Starc, Cummins, Patto and Lyon is the way to go for Australia.
 
Ab Fan said:
Patto and Cummins are the best bowlers Australia have. They suffered due to injury.

Starc,on other hand, is too one-dimensional and Hazlewood is quite overrated itself.

Starc, Cummins, Patto and Lyon is the way to go for Australia.
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none barring starc can clean up the tail in any condition. cummins yes is their best bowler I agree with that statement. Definitely put starc above Patto until proven otherwise. This series will determine who is better.
 
tyron_woodley said:
none barring starc can clean up the tail in any condition. cummins yes is their best bowler I agree with that statement. Definitely put starc above Patto until proven otherwise. This series will determine who is better.
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Starc is best in cleaning up the tails but not sure if he would be that good with the new ball up front. He doesn't have the consistency with the line and length.

Either way, S.C.P.L is a way to go for Australia going forward IMO.
 
Like I've been saying y'all need to stop over rating this English test team. Was the Windies thrashing not enough for all those people saying England would win the ashes. Lmao at everyone who actually thought England would win. Anything better than 4-0 for England and they should throw a party.

I said before the match started Smith alone is too much for this English team with an average bowling line-up and one of the worst test batting line-ups I have ever seen for a non-minnow. Sure it sounds good on paper; Roy, Root, Bairstow, Butler, Stokes, etc. But this ain't no 50 over match on a road, the bowl actually moves around can you believe it. And pretty 30's and 50's from your "captain" won't win you the match. :)))
 
Aussies definitely surprised me with this win considering they didn't have Starc.

Aussies now have to win one more and draw one more to retain Ashes. England should be under lots of pressure.
 
England were unlucky because of Anderson's injury. It allowed Australia to add at least 100 more runs in the first innings and then they completely exploited a 4 man attack in the second innings.

Like the World Cup, I expect England to bring Australia back to earth with their full-strength attack in the remaining games. Anyway, I am glad Australia had a moment of joy after the semi-final humiliation that will be remembered for ages.
 
anderson injury was a setback for england but they dug their own grave when they didnt play a specialist spinner.. with Root, Denly and Moeen spinning the balls miles, a speacialist spinner e.g. Nathan Lyon for england could have done it ... this is where they lost the game.... anderson would have been countered simply the way the others were... england still had 3 full steam fast bowlers , just didnt have the guts to play a proper spinner and that hurt them bad...

also, the batting was spineless... the century from burns was a gift, he is below avg at best, worse than all asian openers (and tht is a feat on its own) ... Roy is clueless,in tests, if the ball swings 0.0001mm, he is a dead duck... bairstow (my fav eng player) is in a horrrible form. root is mediocre again (no way he shld be in Fab 4, should only be fab 3) butlers shananingans can only work in LOI (he is no doubt the king of LOI) ... the only guy worth watching in the english team (batting wise) was Stokes... few of his shots on day 3 (i was at the stadium) were just BEAUTiFULLLLLL ... and his agression in bowling was treat to watch... broad and woakes did a good job as well but Mo.Ali was a big big let down esp this is the ground where he has the strongest case to play ..
 
Pattinson is better than starc and hazlewood. Give him couple of more matches and he will prove it. Starc is overrated in tests actually and hazelwood's recent form has been pretty poor.
 
Mamoon said:
England were unlucky because of Anderson's injury. It allowed Australia to add at least 100 more runs in the first innings and then they completely exploited a 4 man attack in the second innings.

Like the World Cup, I expect England to bring Australia back to earth with their full-strength attack in the remaining games. Anyway, I am glad Australia had a moment of joy after the semi-final humiliation that will be remembered for ages.
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If Australia were able to exploit England's 4 man attack, why couldn't England do the same to the Aussies, who also only had a 4 man attack?

Also, don't forget that England's greatest test series victory in the last 30+ years was built on an unlucky injury to the opposition's best pace bowler. Don't cry now that the shoe's on the other foot.
 
Lol it was definitely not a B side and even if it was can I ask why Australia decided to play the B side. England are not a great test side currently they are playing too many LOIs players in test team and once smith scored the runs needed it was always going to be only one outcome.
 
Had James Anderson not been injured it could have been a very different result.
 
Mamoon said:
England were unlucky because of Anderson's injury. It allowed Australia to add at least 100 more runs in the first innings and then they completely exploited a 4 man attack in the second innings.

Like the World Cup, I expect England to bring Australia back to earth with their full-strength attack in the remaining games. Anyway, I am glad Australia had a moment of joy after the semi-final humiliation that will be remembered for ages.
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oh don't you worry. They have 5 world cups.
Anderson wouldn't have done much. England missed a spinner not Anderson. Either way Aussies would have finished them. Don't forget Aussies missed starc and hazelwood. hazelwood is far better than siddle.
 
Pakhs said:
Lol it was definitely not a B side and even if it was can I ask why Australia decided to play the B side. England are not a great test side currently they are playing too many LOIs players in test team and once smith scored the runs needed it was always going to be only one outcome.
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it was their second string bowling side.
 
Pakhs said:
lol Hazelwood was dropped so was starc. Sorry to brake your bubble.
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Hazelwood is better than siddle no matter how you want to spin it.
Starc is always their spearhead. starc wasn't dropped. he was rested after the world cup.
 
delpiero10 said:
If Australia were able to exploit England's 4 man attack, why couldn't England do the same to the Aussies, who also only had a 4 man attack?

Also, don't forget that England's greatest test series victory in the last 30+ years was built on an unlucky injury to the opposition's best pace bowler. Don't cry now that the shoe's on the other foot.
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You can only work with a 4 man attack if you have a quality spinner. Lyon is the best Test spinner in the world while Moeen is a complete dunce.

As far as the 2005 Ashes is concerned, the excuse of McGrath’s injury doesn’t fly. When you are arguably the best team of all time, you cannot blame injury to one player no matter how great that player is.

Australia still had Warne, Ponting, Gilchrist, Hayden, Langer and Gillespie. Warne was the only one who got on top of England. Ponting, Hayden and Langer were kept at bay for large periods while Gilchrist and Gillespie got owned.

This England team is not at the level of 2005 Australia. It is a good team but heavily reliant on its strike bowler. Absence of Anderson has the same impact on them as the absence of Smith and Lyon would have on this Australian team.

He is out of the Lord’s Test too but hopefully Archer will play.
 
I wont call it B side. Pattinson and Cummins have always been highly rated test bowlers in Australia, Hazlewood and Starc played so many games together because of back injuries to Pattinson an Cummins.

Also not to forget that Starc and Hazlewood werent able to do anything of note in test series against India, some sort of change was always on the cards. Starc has been pretty average in tests for sometime except an odd performance against Srl.

To shed more light on mediocre performances of Starc and Hazlewood in tests, they both have averaged 33-34 in year 2018 with bowl with Sr of 70+ for Hazlewood and 60+ for Starc which is pretty ordinary stuff from team’s premier bowlers.

Its pretty appreciable that aussies team management don’t select players just because of their name rather how they have been performing and the decision paid off in the first test.
 
tyron_woodley said:
oh don't you worry. They have 5 world cups.
Anderson wouldn't have done much. England missed a spinner not Anderson. Either way Aussies would have finished them. Don't forget Aussies missed starc and hazelwood. hazelwood is far better than siddle.
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Anderson wouldn’t have allowed Australia to add 150+ with the last two wickets or to score 480+ in the second innings on a pitch that was by no means a batting paradise.

You cannot compare Starc and Hazlewood to Anderson in English conditions. Anderson is a master of bowling in England and the Australia duo cannot be compared to them.

The absence of Anderson hurts England much more than the absence of Starc (who was not picked because he is still in ODI mode) and Hazlewood hurts Australia.

Anderson is as important to England as Smith and Lyon are too Australia.

Australian fans are celebrating early like they did in the World Cup, but they had nowhere to hide after the semifinal humiliation. Such threads look premature when there are still 4 Tests to go. If England come back and win the series 2-1, 3-1 or 3-2, what would be the relevance of this thread?
 
Man, some commentators here are really predictable - they support England no matter what the context of the thread, and bash Pak especially, but apparently also any other team playing England. Blind support bias should be classed as a cricketing illness.

Who knows, Eng may win a couple of tests in this series, if they doctor the conditions (not too pacey, not too bouncy, not too much turn, just enough swing.. omg the list is endless) but Australia have 5 world cups and countless ashes wins, including several serious, serious demolition jobs, so we all know which team (‘s supporters) need to come ‘back to earth’.
 
Waiting for these supporters to start explaining how Anderson is the best bowler in the history of world cricket. (A claim Anderson himself has rubbished)
 
tyron_woodley said:
Hazelwood is better than siddle no matter how you want to spin it.
Starc is always their spearhead. starc wasn't dropped. he was rested after the world cup.
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They are not injured both dropped! if they are dropped due to poor performance its not England fault.
 
Mamoon said:
Australian fans are celebrating early like they did in the World Cup, but they had nowhere to hide after the semifinal humiliation. Such threads look premature when there are still 4 Tests to go. If England come back and win the series 2-1, 3-1 or 3-2, what would be the relevance of this thread?
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Yeah the Aussies supporters have been punked big time.
 
England have structural problems which I've banged on about for 4 years and the World Cup win does not change the fact the Test team is mediocre.

When ECB jokers push the County Championship to the margins of the season in April and September then don't expect any fast bowlers or spinners to emerge. Nor expect batsmen to be any good at playing pace or quality spin. England are no longer producing any county batsmen who can bat time or score not just 100s but 150s and 200s.

With the prioritisation of one-day cricket which was needed after 2015, the mindset is to be aggressive in all situations not play each ball on its merits.
 
i have probably said this alot of times in the past week, but starc and hazlewood were pretty horrible in 2018. check their stats, starc had one good game in south africa, but was barely able to buy a wicket every other game of the year. starc gets moslty the tail, which is not bad , but top orde

starc is either hot or cold, he can be a good exponent of reverse swing
and could bowl brilliantly one game, but bowl rubbish the other 3 games. he is too inconsistent and you cant afford that in test cricket. on top of that, he is very injury prone
siddle bowled better than starc in the uae tour,last year.

hazlewood was worse, with an avg of 40 in safrica last year. he is the one who i think has his place in scrutiny . pattinson and siddle are way better than hazlewood

it will be a great injustice to other bowlers like siddle, pattinson if hazlewood remained an automatic selection .
starc and hazlewood were not performing, that is why they were dropped.


tremain, sayers jackson bird have barely gotten any opportunities, and they have much better first class avg and more wickets per match than hazlewood.
 
Pakhs said:
They are not injured both dropped! if they are dropped due to poor performance its not England fault.
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both starc and hazelwood are better than siddle. stats suggest so, pundits say so and performances also reflect that.

Siddle is mediocre. So yes they weren't full strength. Poor performance? just last year cummins starc and hazelwood were hailed as the best pace attack in the world until india destroyed them in their own backyard.
 
Yes but his point is that they were not injured - they were not picked. So you cannot call this an Aus B side..
 
sindhiboy said:
i have probably said this alot of times in the past week, but starc and hazlewood were pretty horrible in 2018. check their stats, starc had one good game in south africa, but was barely able to buy a wicket every other game of the year. starc gets moslty the tail, which is not bad , but top orde

starc is either hot or cold, he can be a good exponent of reverse swing
and could bowl brilliantly one game, but bowl rubbish the other 3 games. he is too inconsistent and you cant afford that in test cricket. on top of that, he is very injury prone
siddle bowled better than starc in the uae tour,last year.

hazlewood was worse, with an avg of 40 in safrica last year. he is the one who i think has his place in scrutiny . pattinson and siddle are way better than hazlewood

it will be a great injustice to other bowlers like siddle, pattinson if hazlewood remained an automatic selection .
starc and hazlewood were not performing, that is why they were dropped.


tremain, sayers jackson bird have barely gotten any opportunities, and they have much better first class avg and more wickets per match than hazlewood.
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sayyers and bird are fodder. Both Have had chances and they failed to impress. very mediocre bowlers and they also lack pace. In Australia pace matters unless you are consistent with your line and length like mcgrath. tremain was woeful in his odi appearance and his lack of pace cost him his place in tests. Hazelwood has a better average anyway and is more consistent.
 
Fair enough. See where you are coming from in that case. I don’t necessarily agree... but it is a tough call as a lot of these guys are great. This could become a fun thread on who Australia’s three best seamers are currently! I reckon Starc will play at Lords because of the slope.. unless he is really out of form and not able to hit his test lengths atm in the nets.
 
FreePalestine said:
Fair enough. See where you are coming from in that case. I don’t necessarily agree... but it is a tough call as a lot of these guys are great. This could become a fun thread on who Australia’s three best seamers are currently! I reckon Starc will play at Lords because of the slope.. unless he is really out of form and not able to hit his test lengths atm in the nets.
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Australia is one of those weird teams. They aren't the best team but they play well as a unit and have that fighting spirit. Plus they have the GOAT test batsman who is carrying them. Can never count them out.

cummins
starc
hazelwood
Pattinson

then

jhye richardson
siddle
Joel Paris

that's their bowling depth and in order from best to worst.
 
But are they their best seamers in all conditions? Judging from Langer’s comments, he doesn’t seem to think so. Might be a form thing with Starc..
 
tyron_woodley said:
both starc and hazelwood are better than siddle. stats suggest so, pundits say so and performances also reflect that.

Siddle is mediocre. So yes they weren't full strength. Poor performance? just last year cummins starc and hazelwood were hailed as the best pace attack in the world until india destroyed them in their own backyard.
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You answered your own question they have been punished for India series where they didnt perform at all. Its normal its international cricket of you are not performing you will be dropped.
 
Pakhs said:
You answered your own question they have been punished for India series where they didnt perform at all. Its normal its international cricket of you are not performing you will be dropped.
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tbf to them bowlers did really well. batsmen were terrible.
 
tyron_woodley said:
sayyers and bird are fodder. Both Have had chances and they failed to impress. very mediocre bowlers and they also lack pace. In Australia pace matters unless you are consistent with your line and length like mcgrath. tremain was woeful in his odi appearance and his lack of pace cost him his place in tests. Hazelwood has a better average anyway and is more consistent.
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you cannot call 1 test a proper chance. tremain has not even gotten a debut, odis are not releveant to test form, also 7 wickets in 4 odis where above 350 was scored is not that bad,

jackson bird has done decently with whatever opportunities he has got. you cannot say that any of the 3 have gotten the chances they deserved

jhye richardson looks much better than hazlewood currently
 
Mamoon said:
England were unlucky because of Anderson's injury. It allowed Australia to add at least 100 more runs in the first innings and then they completely exploited a 4 man attack in the second innings.

Like the World Cup, I expect England to bring Australia back to earth with their full-strength attack in the remaining games. Anyway, I am glad Australia had a moment of joy after the semi-final humiliation that will be remembered for ages.
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LMAO Aus have bunch of spare WC trophies in their cabinet. Unlike England they actually beat opponents in all those 5 wins. They also humiliated Eng in group stage.

As for Eng I lost count how many times they got humiliated in past WCs and even in this one too. They got destroyed by aging Malinga for petes sake.
2011–humiliated by minnow level BD
2015– humiliated by minnow level BD again
2016 T20– humiliated by Carlos Braithwaite alone
 
Australia won because they selected based on conditions rather than reputations. Siddle, Cummins, Pattinson was the best attack they could have picked. Siddle in particular might have gone under the radar but he stayed true to his reputation of bowling long, disciplined spells. And ofcourse he made an invaluable contribution with the bat.

England selected on reputation. Anderson might have passed the fitness test but he was not fully fit and that ended up costing England big-time.
 
Mamoon said:
You can only work with a 4 man attack if you have a quality spinner. Lyon is the best Test spinner in the world while Moeen is a complete dunce.

As far as the 2005 Ashes is concerned, the excuse of McGrath’s injury doesn’t fly. When you are arguably the best team of all time, you cannot blame injury to one player no matter how great that player is.

Australia still had Warne, Ponting, Gilchrist, Hayden, Langer and Gillespie. Warne was the only one who got on top of England. Ponting, Hayden and Langer were kept at bay for large periods while Gilchrist and Gillespie got owned.

This England team is not at the level of 2005 Australia. It is a good team but heavily reliant on its strike bowler. Absence of Anderson has the same impact on them as the absence of Smith and Lyon would have on this Australian team.

He is out of the Lord’s Test too but hopefully Archer will play.
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England could have selected Leech. They knew Anderson was coming off a injury and England still selected him.

Stop hiding behind excuses. This England team isn’t as good as you think.

When the test was going on, you said Pakistan would beat Australia without. Australia would beat Pakistan in Australia without Smith. Your favourite team hasn’t been able to beat Pakistan the last 2 times . Pakistan are minnow according to you and your favourite team can’t even beat them in a series with all the players you hype.
 
Pattinson as a reserve bowler is some scary depth. Don’t see him playing every game in this series. Starc and Hazelwood will be needed in this series.
 
sindhiboy said:
you cannot call 1 test a proper chance. tremain has not even gotten a debut, odis are not releveant to test form, also 7 wickets in 4 odis where above 350 was scored is not that bad,

jackson bird has done decently with whatever opportunities he has got. you cannot say that any of the 3 have gotten the chances they deserved

jhye richardson looks much better than hazlewood currently
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doesn't matter man. Australia feels like you need to meet a certain criteria regarding pace to play international cricket. They will never pick bird or tremain for their lack of pace. I agree jhye has more potential than hazelwood but he isn't better yet. Has a long way to go and he is far too Injury prone. Plus he has a slender build. He needs to put on some mass considering his height.

tremain got chances and he blew it though. Bird is an average player honestly. He is suited for overseas conditions with his bowling ability. limited player.
 
Pakhs said:
Australia was playing their first choice 11 end of discussion from my end.
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it wasn't the strongest when they could be even stronger. So I disagree. Hazelwood or even jhye would be a better option than siddle. Starc is their go to man on flat conditions. depends on the conditions. Starc would play on most wickets compared to Patto. patto is more of a seam bowler.
 
besides starc and hazlewood, this is no where near an aus b side. pretty ridiculous to think it is. dont think aus will change their bowlers.

marcus harris, joe burns , labuschagne are the other batters in the squad, they are not fixed members.

aus will likely not change the bowlers for lords. only time when langer will change the bowlers is when siddle reitres(he is old and this may come soon). jhye richardson is set to replace siddle. there will be no room for starc+hazlewood, unless there is an injury(which is always imminent). but starc+hazle will not be guaranteed picks like they used to be
 
England batters- Root, Bairstow and Buttler, all three have something to prove in the next test match.

Lords might give Australia an edge though if they again win the toss.
 
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