Azhar Ali and Salman Butt: So similar but so different

[Junaids]

Things really have come round full circle with Azhar Ali and Salman Butt.

Azhar is now the national team captain in spite of the collapse in his Test form these last 2 years and in spite of his inability to step up and lead the batting when Misbah and Younis Khan retired.

Salman Butt, of course, has now been cleared by the ICC to return to international cricket for the last 4 years and 2 months but has never been selected.

And both players are of course the same age - Azhar Ali is 34 years and 8 months old while Salman Butt is 4 months older.

And now that they are teammates at Central Punjab we are seeing exactly what we saw when they were international colleagues almost a decade ago: Salman Butt is just that little bit superior as a batsman just as he always was.

This season they are playing in the same team against the same bowlers on the same pitches.

And in 4 matches that they have played together, Salman Butt is averaging 107.00 while Azhar Ali is averaging 67.66.

Of course it was always like this.

When Salman Butt was rightly banned for his corrupt behaviour in 2010, he was the national team captain, a 26 year old man with almost 2000 Test runs including centuries on 2 separate Test tours of Australia against Glenn McGrath, Shane Warne and Mitchell Johnson. His Test average was a modest 30.46 at the time.

And yet at that time Azhar Ali, just 4 months younger, had made just 291 Test runs, at an even worse average of 26.45.

They played 7 Tests together. Azhar Ali scored 291 runs at 26.45 while Salman Butt scored 341 runs at 28.42.

I salute Azhar Ali for staying clean and for making the most of a rather modest amount of talent.

But the bottom line is that we are still seeing in 2019 what we saw in 2010 and even before that.

Azhar Ali and Salman Butt are the same age. One did the right thing and one did the wrong thing.

But the stats don't lie: Salman Butt has always been a superior batsman to Azhar Ali, and nothing has changed. Every time they have played together it has been clear that Azhar is the inferior batsman.

Personally I see no reason to select either in the Test team - I don't understand why you would pick a 35 year old like Azhar Ali with such a poor record since the age of 32, or one with a mediocre record like Salman Butt whose job can be done by younger men like Sami Aslam, Shan Masood and Imam-ul-Haq.

 

[coy0607]

This isn't a vacuum where you just look at the number and nothing else.

Azhar is the senior most batsmen in the test team and has been playing consistently for almost a decade now, obviously it will be very difficult to displace him - although I believe he is well on his way to being dropped.

Similar its very difficult for someone who has been out of the team to break in, good performances aren't enough - you need exceptional performance and Butt just hasn't been that good.

While I agree that Azhar is past his best and more of a burden than anything else on the test team, I don't think Salman Butt is necessarily better. Butt is a domestic bully, outside a 2-year ODI run in 07-08, Butt was a well below average international batsmen

 

[Usman]

I disagree with your assessment entirely. You are comparing the record of Salman Butt, a veteran of 33 tests, against the record of a young Azhar Ali at a time when Azhar had played just a handful of games. You are then using this entirely skewed analysis to conclude that Butt is/was better than Azhar.

You are then using a handful of games in the current domestic season to again conclude that Butt is a superior batsman. Again this is just completely flawed.

A better way of analysing the two players is to compare their long term records. Notwithstanding Azhar's recent slump in form in international cricket, the long term records of both players show that Azhar is a far superior batsman than Butt. You cannot argue with facts.

What you and other fans really mean when you make such comparisons is that Butt is a more stylish batsman than Azhar and therefore "looks" better - more pleasing to the eye. That may be so but the runs are what counts and I'm afraid as Butt showed when he played for Pakistan, he wasn't good enough to score many of them.

 

[zacattakk]

I disagree with your assessment entirely. You are comparing the record of Salman Butt, a veteran of 33 tests, against the record of a young Azhar Ali at a time when Azhar had played just a handful of games. You are then using this entirely skewed analysis to conclude that Butt is/was better than Azhar.

You are then using a handful of games in the current domestic season to again conclude that Butt is a superior batsman. Again this is just completely flawed.

I was about to say the same thing, but you had already beat me to it. What a flawed comparison.

 

[Junaids]

No offence, but you can’t defend Azhar by saying “He made his debut five years later”.

He is the same age as Salman Butt. He made his debut five years later because he wasn’t as good as Salman Butt.

It’s not like Azhar is a Late Bloomer like Misbah. Quite the opposite: since the age of 32 his Test average is 18 less than it was up to the age of 32.

Azhar was an honest trier who between the ages of 28 and 31 had a good career, especially on flatter than usual Aussie decks.

But Azhar’s failure in South Africa in 2013 and 2019, and his failure in England in 2019 and on the first half of the 2016 tour really shows that he is a very modest player who ground out big runs in the UAE.

Neither player should be in the Pakistan Test team now.

Salman Butt because he is too old and Sami Aslam, Imam-ul-Haq and Shan Masood can do the same job.

Azhar Ali because he is too old too, and because he has been a consistent failure for the last two years since he became a veteran.

 

[Hawkeye]

Hmm..

Azhar has been our best batsman in Australia.

Enough said. Time to move on, nothing much to see in this thread except the usual Salman Butt love.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Cherry picking segments of their career to prove salman is better than azhar ali.

What their records really shows is :

Azhar ali(avg 43) is thrice the batsman Salman Butt(avg 30) ever was,he has achieved more respect and also he has broken more records than salman butt.

You live in your own fantasy world,sir.

 

[Junaids]

Cherry picking segments of their career to prove salman is better than azhar ali.

What their records really shows is :

Azhar ali(avg 43) is thrice the batsman Salman Butt(avg 30) ever was,he has achieved more respect and also he has broken more records than salman butt.

You live in your own fantasy world,sir.

Yes.

Cherry picking the times when they played on the same pitches against the same bowlers with the same balls.

“Cherry picking” is when you credit Azhar with deceptive figures amassed in the UAE with no slip cordon in sight.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yes.

Cherry picking the times when they played on the same pitches against the same bowlers with the same balls.

“Cherry picking” is when you credit Azhar with deceptive figures amassed in the UAE with no slip cordon in sight.

So, remind me again who was our best batsman on the last Australia tour.

 

[Mamoon]

The best and most credible way of comparing two batsmen is to see how they perform in the same team, against the same opposition and in the same conditions.

That is why I don’t agree with the assessment that Younis was better than Yousuf. When the two played together, Yousuf consistently proved himself to be the superior batsman.

Butt has always outperformed Azhar when they have played in the same team. That is is crystal clear evidence that he is a better batsman.

As far as their career averages are concerned, Butt hasn’t had the luxury of boosting his numbers on the completely dead UAE wickets during the 2010 era.

There is no doubt that he would have been a prolific batsman on those pitches and would have drastically improved his 30 odd average.

 

[Danyaalr01]

The best and most credible way of comparing two batsmen is to see how they perform in the same team, against the same opposition and in the same conditions.

That argument doesn't always work. Many young players take time to find their feet in test cricket, so obviously they will have inferior stats to some more experienced players who they briefly play with.

 

[Mamoon]

That argument doesn't always work. Many young players take time to find their feet in test cricket, so obviously they will have inferior stats to some more experienced players who they briefly play with.

It does work when the players are of the same age. However, if you are comparing a 30 year old to a 20 year old, then obviously it won’t paint a clear picture.

 

[Danyaalr01]

It does work when the players are of the same age. However, if you are comparing a 30 year old to a 20 year old, then obviously it won’t paint a clear picture.

Ok yeah, it works in that case most times.

 

[Xoib]

The best and most credible way of comparing two batsmen is to see how they perform in the same team, against the same opposition and in the same conditions.

That is why I don’t agree with the assessment that Younis was better than Yousuf. When the two played together, Yousuf consistently proved himself to be the superior batsman.

Butt has always outperformed Azhar when they have played in the same team. That is is crystal clear evidence that he is a better batsman.

As far as their career averages are concerned, Butt hasn’t had the luxury of boosting his numbers on the completely dead UAE wickets during the 2010 era.

There is no doubt that he would have been a prolific batsman on those pitches and would have drastically improved his 30 odd average.

Butt was average vs spin I doubt his UAE bashing would be better

 

[JibranAnsari]

Azhar ali has puched above his weight but i dont think he is 34 25 36 or 37. He is around 38.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Are they really the same age or is Butt a lot older than is his stated 35?

This is what Butt looked like in June 2012 when Butt was (on paper anyway) 28......

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2012/jun/23/danish-kaneria-salman-butt-spot-fixing

Sure stress etc was a factor but he looked sigificantly older than 28 back then.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Are they really the same age or is Butt a lot older than is his stated 35?

This is what Butt looked like in June 2012 when Butt was (on paper anyway) 28......

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2012/jun/23/danish-kaneria-salman-butt-spot-fixing

Sure stress etc was a factor but he looked sigificantly older than 28 back then.

Lol he's probably 40. The guy has been playing since the early 2000s. Alot of cricketers hide their age but some are just not good at hiding it. Like Iftikhar Ahmed who says he is 29 but in reality is probably in his mid to late 30s and Mohammad Shami who clearly looks like he is nearing 40. In Butt's case it seems he only needed to dye his hair.

 

[Usman]

No offence, but you can’t defend Azhar by saying “He made his debut five years later”.

He is the same age as Salman Butt. He made his debut five years later because he wasn’t as good as Salman Butt.

It’s not like Azhar is a Late Bloomer like Misbah. Quite the opposite: since the age of 32 his Test average is 18 less than it was up to the age of 32.

Azhar was an honest trier who between the ages of 28 and 31 had a good career, especially on flatter than usual Aussie decks.

But Azhar’s failure in South Africa in 2013 and 2019, and his failure in England in 2019 and on the first half of the 2016 tour really shows that he is a very modest player who ground out big runs in the UAE.

Neither player should be in the Pakistan Test team now.

Salman Butt because he is too old and Sami Aslam, Imam-ul-Haq and Shan Masood can do the same job.

Azhar Ali because he is too old too, and because he has been a consistent failure for the last two years since he became a veteran.

I am not defending Azhar by saying he made his debut 5 years later. What I am saying however is that you are comparing the records of Azhar and Butt when they played together - this was in just a handful of games at a time when Salman was well established in the team and Azhar was not. That is no basis for a comparison and you know it.

If you want to compare players, you must do so on their long term records, otherwise you can use stats to make any point you want to make, regardless of its validity.

I also dispute your comment that Azhar made his debut years later because he wasn't as good as Butt. During that period of Pakistani cricket, it is a well documented fact that Pakistani openers were generally woeful (Hameed, Farhat, Taufeeq Umer) whereas the Pakistani middle order of Younus, Inzi and Mohammed Yousuf was seriously world class. It was therefore much easier to break into the team as an opener than it was as a middle order bat. So again, it does not follow that making your debut at a young age means you are a better player.

The reality is Junaids that you, like some other Pakistani fans, have a soft spot for Butt which is fine. However when you try and convince the rest of us that your irrational soft spot is rational based on fact, we simply won't fall for it.

 

[Junaids]

So, remind me again who was our best batsman on the last Australia tour.

This post talks about similarities as well as differences.

And currently these two are Pakistan’s GOAT Test batsmen in Australia.

Azhar has had one superb series in Australia.

Butt has had two excellent series there five years apart, against different attacks.

Let’s wait and see how Azhar does this time around.

 

[Junaids]

What boggles my mind is that under Misbah any number of geriatrics seem to be selected.

How can anybody justify picking Azhar Ali or Asad Shafiq while Sami Aslam is not even in the squad?

The same applies to selecting Kashif Bhatti ahead of Zafar Gohar.

It’s grossly irresponsible and it’s also short-sighted and self-defeating.

Always pick the younger players on his way up ahead of the older player on his way down.

 

[Mamoon]

Butt was average vs spin I doubt his UAE bashing would be better

So is Azhar. His fourth innings record proves it.

 

[Junaids]

Butt was average vs spin I doubt his UAE bashing would be better

So is Azhar. His fourth innings record proves it.

This season in the QEA they are playing on UAE-style pitches.

And Salman Butt is averaging 40 more than Azhar Ali, against the same bowlers on the same pitches on the same days.

 

[Danyaalr01]

This season in the QEA they are playing on UAE-style pitches.

And Salman Butt is averaging 40 more than Azhar Ali, against the same bowlers on the same pitches on the same days.

Actually if you have watched then you will know the pitches aren't turning nearly as much much as the UAE, these pitches are as dead as they come. These are worse than the MCG pitch in the Ashes end of 2017. Plus they are 4 day matches and the pitches aren't detiriorating anyways.

Both are very average against spin. The UAE isn't a good measure of spin playing ability as it is very slow turn. India and even Sri Lanka are better for spinners.

 

[King Khan]

Such a weird and incorrect way to compare players using such a small sample size.

I mean I could bring up the infamous England series and showed that Azhar outperformed Butt, and if it weren't for the failure of others, Azhar would have got his hundred in the Oval test being 92 not out.