Babar Azam is more to blame than Mickey Arthur for the team problems in this ICC World Cup 2023

[Savak]

Let's be clear the trio of Mickey Arthur, Grant Bradburn, Andrew Puttick, Morne Morkel were appointed in the month of April 2023 which is 4-5 months before the ODI WC. It is unfair to blame these guys for the teams issues in this WC because they just haven't had enough time to implant their vision and the kind of players they want to pick in the team.

The one person who is completely responsible for this is the captain Babar Azam who has now captained for 3-4 years and has been given complete authority to select whoever he wants in the team. It was his choice to stick to the same 15-18 permanent group of players wheras the Indians utilized all their weak opponents games to test and develop their bench strength.

The end result is that now because our key players are either injured or badly out of form, there are just no alternatives. This is something Babar has to seriously held accountable for and that means being axed as captain from all formats after this WC.

 

[Rana]

Write all you want

Tell as much truth as you like….

The reality is. This guy has been given a 3 year contract that is the highest ever in the history of the PCB for central contracted players. Nothing will change. Even if he is removed, the guys coming next are of the same feather.

Pakistan cricket is doomed for the next decade. Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen and Shadab will not change this

 

[shehz]

I find it difficult to comprehend the criticism directed at Babar, Rizwan, and Shaheen. These individuals have consistently secured numerous victories for our team. My concern lies in our investment in mediocre players like Nawaz, Imam, and Shadab, who, in my opinion, don't match up to the form Imad is in; his omission feels like a significant injustice. I'd rather face defeat with players like Saim and Harris, as it signifies a brighter future for us. Each player should strive to be a match-winner. I have no idea why we persist with bits and pieces players, in T20 you can get away with but not in ODI

 

[Rana]

I find it difficult to comprehend the criticism directed at Babar, Rizwan, and Shaheen. These individuals have consistently secured numerous victories for our team

Victories against who?

B/C teams?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Victories against who?

B/C teams?

Those B/C teams doesnt throw under arm deliveries, they also represnt their countries so if they have scored against them it means they have done well.

These players have the potential to perfoem in this World Cup, all they need is confidence.

 

[ArabKnight]

Victories against who?

B/C teams?

I wouldn’t consider Netherlands to be B/C.

They’re like a F or G team.

 

[Itachi]

As per one of the biggest thread in PP regarding the match, it seems like the crowd booing had dramatic effect on babar so.... it will be unfair to blame him.

Blame goes to the crowd who booed.

 

[Itachi]

Those B/C teams doesnt throw under arm deliveries, they also represnt their countries so if they have scored against them it means they have done well.

These players have the potential to perfoem in this World Cup, all they need is confidence.

But Indian crowd booing will destroy that confidence so pakistan team has more probability to under perform than their potential. (logic of some ppers).

 

[Kianig89]

Babar Azam the messiah comes out to bat in 8th over and RR is 5.1 and when he is out in 30th over RR is 5.2

Rizwan started in 14th over RR is 5.7, gets out in 33rd over RR is 4.86

Babar and Rizwan played 30 dots between them, Babar managed 10 runs off 18 deliveries against Yadav

Perfect example of stat paddling

 

[mominsaigol]

Those B/C teams doesnt throw under arm deliveries, they also represnt their countries so if they have scored against them it means they have done well.

These players have the potential to perfoem in this World Cup, all they need is confidence.

The reason sides play B/C teams is to groom them and incorporate them into A string. They can only get groomed if they get hammered and eventually they'll get experience and won't be hammered.

It's how Conway, Philips, Ravindra, Mark Chapman etc were cultivated.

If we play full strength against.C teams all that'll happen is we get thrashed by A teams. You wanna know why this happens?

Because imagine playing chess against a bunch of 3 year olds, You'll keep winning and be happy with your victories aka no 1.

Then all of the sudden you're asked to play chess against Magnus Carslen. What do you think is going to happen?

Unless you progress slowly aka start by beating a 3 year old, then a 10 year old, then a 1100 elo player then a 1500 elo, then all the way upto 2800 elo players, only then you'll be able to compete with Magnus.

It takes years and years to build a team, something SENA and India understand.

Atm India has players like sanju sampson, Jaiswal who would easily make it into the Pakistan squad but atm aren't good enough for Indian Main team. That shows good the level of grooming is in India compared to us because we are happy bullying little kids but get sad when the big boys torture us.

Can't improve your game if you keep playing in easy mode and aren't willing to change the difficulty setting.

 

[zaidihusain]

I find it difficult to comprehend the criticism directed at Babar, Rizwan, and Shaheen. These individuals have consistently secured numerous victories for our team. My concern lies in our investment in mediocre players like Nawaz, Imam, and Shadab, who, in my opinion, don't match up to the form Imad is in; his omission feels like a significant injustice. I'd rather face defeat with players like Saim and Harris, as it signifies a brighter future for us. Each player should strive to be a match-winner. I have no idea why we persist with bits and pieces players, in T20 you can get away with but not in ODI

You are right about Nawaz, Imam & Shadab but can you please list out top 5 matches won by Babar, Rizwan & Shaheen against big teams in big events from those consistently numerous victories?

 

[W63L35]

@Savak

How would compare Babar's captaincy with Jos Butler's captaincy?
England are the current world champion and were the 2nd favorite to win this cup when the tournament started.
Who will you blame for England's extremely poor performance?

 

[Savak]

@Savak

How would compare Babar's captaincy with Jos Butler's captaincy?
England are the current world champion and were the 2nd favorite to win this cup when the tournament started.
Who will you blame for England's extremely poor performance?

England's below par performances are more shocking and unforgivable. They turned up to India with complete arrogance and without any real preparations as if all they had to do was just show up in order to retain the Cup. This present team under Butler looks very soft.

Babar has always been an eternally poor captain and his luck in ICC events now looks to be running out. He needs to held accountable for selecting the team on the basis of Yaari Dosti

 

[Mockingbird]

Babar Azam the messiah comes out to bat in 8th over and RR is 5.1 and when he is out in 30th over RR is 5.2

Rizwan started in 14th over RR is 5.7, gets out in 33rd over RR is 4.86

Babar and Rizwan played 30 dots between them, Babar managed 10 runs off 18 deliveries against Yadav

Perfect example of stat paddling

All of this wouldn’t actually be an issue if Babar could actually finish the game. Kohli starts of slowly too- his innings is mostly 1s and 2s. That he can actually shift gear and strike hard too towards the end is very well known so also his ability to finish the game. Babar with all due respect has rarely ever finished the game like Kohli does.

 

[chinaman00]

All of this wouldn’t actually be an issue if Babar could actually finish the game. Kohli starts of slowly too- his innings is mostly 1s and 2s. That he can actually shift gear and strike hard too towards the end is very well known so also his ability to finish the game. Babar with all due respect has rarely ever finished the game like Kohli does.

Not rarely but never.

Babar is a poor man’s Kohli and it’s unfortunate some fans think of as anything more than that. But there aren’t many players like Kohli, not just today but in the history of the game, so Babar can’t be faulted here. Where Babar can definitely be faulted is his captaincy and propensity for low quality decision-making skills and nepotism. Both of these follies are unforgivable

 

[W63L35]

England's below par performances are more shocking and unforgivable. They turned up to India with complete arrogance and without any real preparations as if all they had to do was just show up in order to retain the Cup. This present team under Butler looks very soft.

Babar has always been an eternally poor captain and his luck in ICC events now looks to be running out. He needs to held accountable for selecting the team on the basis of Yaari Dosti

So basically we are holding two different yard sticks for the captaincy evaluations - one for Babar and the other one for the rest of the captains?

Jos Butler: Arrogance. No real prep even though they did schedule 7 ODIs in the month before the WC.
Babar: Team selection, friends, Shadab, Poor form, tactics, Looked soft, Poor captincy, Luck has run out. Are you sure none of these issues don't exist in Butler's captaincy? Better question: How do you know these problems do exist in Babar's captaincy?

 

[giri26]

The biggest problem with Babar more than his performances on the field is his inability to walk away from meaningless games and allow a bench to be formed. Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen keep playing all the games unless they are injured. Babar is not the only one to be blamed here. It is the management and the coach who aren't strong enough. For India though this was always the play over the last few years, that's why we see India sending a second string team when they are playing weaker oppositions. This is not a new trend, it was happening in the past as well when Suresh Raina led Indian team went to Zimbabwe and came back winning the series.

Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen are very good players and will probably end up as one of the best from Pakistan but they need to understand when to take a break and when to play. If Babar wants to leave a legacy as a captain he should think about building a team and a good bench during his tenure. Playing the same players again and again isn't helping the team.

 

[Suleiman]

Blame the clowns who hired Mickey Arthur and appointed Babar as captain despite 1-3 solid years of questionable tactics and leadership.

 

[Kianig89]

Kohli is superior to Babar without a doubt, Apart from Babar PCB has no genuine captaincy options

 

[Sherazkhalid]

Kohli is superior to Babar without a doubt, Apart from Babar PCB has no genuine captaincy options

Rizwan is a better option but it's time to make SSA the captain, he has successfully captained Qalandars.

 

[Mockingbird]

Rizwan is a better option but it's time to make SSA the captain, he has successfully captained Qalandars.

I feel like Pak captaincy is cursed- too much politics in selection, management instability, infighting, backbiting means that captaincy can take a toll on anybody’s form. You guys don’t want to ruin the form of your topmost bowler, do you?

 

[Major]

Bro, even misbah saidit on the pavilion.

He was in that meeting and he and hafeez said that your spinners are out of form take a mystery spinner as its india and plus you are facing each opposition once. But team management and babar did not want to do that.

The squad they have is exactly what babar wanted.

The dumbest captain we have ever had...

 

[Major]

I feel like Pak captaincy is cursed- too much politics in selection, management instability, infighting, backbiting means that captaincy can take a toll on anybody’s form. You guys don’t want to ruin the form of your topmost bowler, do you?

Oh bhai, what curse? There is no politics here.

Babar had full power and control and he got what he wanted

 

[Major]

Kohli is superior to Babar without a doubt, Apart from Babar PCB has no genuine captaincy options

Yes they do have options. Pcb has infact better options.

Iftikhar is the most experienced out of them and knows field placements as he has done captaincy in domestic. Next option is Rizwan. Rizwan played soo much cricket with sngpl under theblikes of misbah, azhar , hafeez

Shaheen is not an option cause he has never done a captaincy stint in a proper 4 day game

 

[Kianig89]

All of this wouldn’t actually be an issue if Babar could actually finish the game. Kohli starts of slowly too- his innings is mostly 1s and 2s. That he can actually shift gear and strike hard too towards the end is very well known so also his ability to finish the game. Babar with all due respect has rarely ever finished the game like Kohli does.

Yes they do have options. Pcb has infact better options.

Iftikhar is the most experienced out of them and knows field placements as he has done captaincy in domestic. Next option is Rizwan. Rizwan played soo much cricket with sngpl under theblikes of misbah, azhar , hafeez

Shaheen is not an option cause he has never done a captaincy stint in a proper 4 day game

Iftikhar who cannot fetch a place in the side should be captain enough of this nonsense,

 

[Meenu Rastogi]

Babar has a good chance to comeback in todays match

 

[Amjid Javed]

Asia cup shambles, now the world cup as well time for babar to be sacked.

He's already ruined test side messing up the easiest test cycle fixtures in previous test championships competition.

Clueless captain

 

[Professionalismandflair]

Bro, even misbah saidit on the pavilion.

He was in that meeting and he and hafeez said that your spinners are out of form take a mystery spinner as its india and plus you are facing each opposition once. But team management and babar did not want to do that.

The squad they have is exactly what babar wanted.

The dumbest captain we have ever had...

Mickey is trying to change Pakistan outdated ways. Unfortunately he has been dealt a poor hand with the players and a timid, inept captain.

 

[Asif321]

Thanks misbah also for messing up everything and then Ramiz raja for giving lot of powers to Babar Rizwan etc

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Bro, even misbah saidit on the pavilion.

He was in that meeting and he and hafeez said that your spinners are out of form take a mystery spinner as its india and plus you are facing each opposition once. But team management and babar did not want to do that.

The squad they have is exactly what babar wanted.

The dumbest captain we have ever had...

If Misbah was still in charge we’d be sitting at home with West Indies lol

 

[topspin]

Mickey was only appointed 3-4 months ago. He didn’t have enough time to prepare this team for the WC. Blaming him is a dumb take but it comes to no surprise who the culprits are here.

But what can I say is he only came back to Coach Pakistan because Sethi begged him.

I wouldn’t blame him for rinsing Pakistan cricket because the truth of the matter is he was unjustly replaced by Misbah, who at the time was a committee member of the PCB. The snake played his part in ousting Mickey merely to take the Coaching role for himself whilst holding no qualifications nor any relevant experience for the job.

The end result of all this is what you see today. The appointments of Saqlain and Ramiz were grave and unforgivable errors from the PCB.

As mentioned by @Asif321 Ramiz gave Babar full authority to do as he pleases and in return he abused it.

No decent coach (outside of Pakistan) in their right mind would want to send out their CV/resume given how the PCB have treated Mickey Arthur and Steve Rixon.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Thanks misbah also for messing up everything and then Ramiz raja for giving lot of powers to Babar Rizwan etc

Seriously?
Some posters in this forum are still blaming Misbah for everything, who left a long time ago.
What has happened since he left? Who stopped PCB from building a good team?

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Actually, you can't blame the coach and captain here.
This is bound to happen when your governing body changing the PCB chairmen like changing shirts every day. They haven't provided a stable environment; everyone knows they are not permanent and can be sacked at any time. There is no grassroots development to yield the talent, result is bits and pieces players and fake all-rounders.

It's not easy to lead a team, even if you bring in Ricky Ponting.
It's an administrative failure.

 

[Asif321]

Seriously?
Some posters in this forum are still blaming Misbah for everything, who left a long time ago.
What has happened since he left? Who stopped PCB from building a good team?

He sacked Sarfraz bought Babar . Made Rizwan opener which lead to that tuk tuk mindset . Sarfraz shouldn’t have been sacked Atleast for t20s he didn’t deserve to . Injustice has happened and he can’t clean his hands from it . Similarly now Babar did injustice with imad and keeping his friends in team hesitant to change .