Babar Azam is not sincere with Pakistan (at least in T20Is)

[Slim]

I have for long defended Babar and his captaincy. But enough is enough. His recent comments, his lack of flexibility and his stubbornness is reeking of selfishness.

We failed to capitalise on three golden chances to win silverware in t20is under Babar and for all of them its Babar’s and Rizwan’s mediocre batting to blame.

Against Australia they slowed down, and it led to us scoring less than we could easily manage.

Against Sri Lanka in Asia Cup, they again failed.

And the biggest choke came against England, when we posted a mediocre 138.

Time and time again Babar and especially Rizwan’s inability to strike rapidly has been brought into question yet there has been ZERO flexibility from Babar’s end. We keep on losing silverware, yet nothing changes.

Babar for me is still an all format player but if he was truly sincere to Pakistan, he would move himself at number 3 in t20is and drop Rizwan for Haris. But no, both brothers will play for their 50 50, and team can go to hell. Pathetic selfish mindset. If Babar was truly sincere to Pakistan he would have rested himself in the t20I series to give chances to youngsters against Nzland’s C team but how could he let go of an opportunity to stat pad.

Its time for Babar to be removed from at least t20I captaincy and for Rizwan to be dropped from the playing 11. Time for an aggressive true leader in Shaheen to take over.

 

[topspin]

It's a complete farce under Babar's leadership. I have to give credit to OP for seeing things from a different perspective rather than blindly cheerlead Babar like a cult member would.

I also used to be an advocate for the Rizbar opening partnership until I saw the light last year. What I saw in the Asia Cup and the 2022 WT20 made me realise that these two are the biggest con artists in the shortest format of the game. But perhaps this was expected as it was Misbah who manufactured RizBar following the decision to promote Rizwan as an opener.

Watching Pakistan under Babar's leadership has been tough to watch but with the way him and Shady (sorry I mean Shadab) are trying to sideline Imad, it's becoming intolerable with all the politics going on.

If the rumours are true about Shakil Sheikh wanting to split up the Babar clique then I hope the Almighty gives him the blessing to do what needs to be done.

 

[Zaz]

I have for long defended Babar and his captaincy. But enough is enough. His recent comments, his lack of flexibility and his stubbornness is reeking of selfishness.

We failed to capitalise on three golden chances to win silverware in t20is under Babar and for all of them its Babar’s and Rizwan’s mediocre batting to blame.

Against Australia they slowed down, and it led to us scoring less than we could easily manage.

Against Sri Lanka in Asia Cup, they again failed.

And the biggest choke came against England, when we posted a mediocre 138.

Time and time again Babar and especially Rizwan’s inability to strike rapidly has been brought into question yet there has been ZERO flexibility from Babar’s end. We keep on losing silverware, yet nothing changes.

Babar for me is still an all format player but if he was truly sincere to Pakistan, he would move himself at number 3 in t20is and drop Rizwan for Haris. But no, both brothers will play for their 50 50, and team can go to hell. Pathetic selfish mindset. If Babar was truly sincere to Pakistan he would have rested himself in the t20I series to give chances to youngsters against Nzland’s C team but how could he let go of an opportunity to stat pad.

Its time for Babar to be removed from at least t20I captaincy and for Rizwan to be dropped from the playing 11. Time for an aggressive true leader in Shaheen to take over.

This is a rant of a post tbh. Incoherent and devoid of any rationality

Yes they could be a little flexible with the order but at the end of the day its babars decision which in certain respects is working as has been shown in recent events where pakistan has punched above its weight

Babar is still the best person to lead the team in limited overs - he wins more games than he loses and rizwan is a very able and dependable right hand man to him

The test captaincy is an altogether different matter

 

[msb314]

I have for long defended Babar and his captaincy. But enough is enough. His recent comments, his lack of flexibility and his stubbornness is reeking of selfishness.

We failed to capitalise on three golden chances to win silverware in t20is under Babar and for all of them its Babar’s and Rizwan’s mediocre batting to blame.

Against Australia they slowed down, and it led to us scoring less than we could easily manage.

Against Sri Lanka in Asia Cup, they again failed.

And the biggest choke came against England, when we posted a mediocre 138.

Time and time again Babar and especially Rizwan’s inability to strike rapidly has been brought into question yet there has been ZERO flexibility from Babar’s end. We keep on losing silverware, yet nothing changes.

Babar for me is still an all format player but if he was truly sincere to Pakistan, he would move himself at number 3 in t20is and drop Rizwan for Haris. But no, both brothers will play for their 50 50, and team can go to hell. Pathetic selfish mindset. If Babar was truly sincere to Pakistan he would have rested himself in the t20I series to give chances to youngsters against Nzland’s C team but how could he let go of an opportunity to stat pad.

Its time for Babar to be removed from at least t20I captaincy and for Rizwan to be dropped from the playing 11. Time for an aggressive true leader in Shaheen to take over.

It's a complete farce under Babar's leadership. I have to give credit to OP for seeing things from a different perspective rather than blindly cheerlead Babar like a cult member would.

I also used to be an advocate for the Rizbar opening partnership until I saw the light last year. What I saw in the Asia Cup and the 2022 WT20 made me realise that these two are the biggest con artists in the shortest format of the game. But perhaps this was expected as it was Misbah who manufactured RizBar following the decision to promote Rizwan as an opener.

Watching Pakistan under Babar's leadership has been tough to watch but with the way him and Shady (sorry I mean Shadab) are trying to sideline Imad, it's becoming intolerable with all the politics going on.

If the rumours are true about Shakil Sheikh wanting to split up the Babar clique then I hope the Almighty gives him the blessing to do what needs to be done.

You two mention Babar has bottled multiple chances to win silverware..

Remind me how much have we ever won? Won a T20 WC back in its infancy stages in 2009 when no one took it seriously..

Just look at how well we did in the 2016 Asia Cup and 2016 WorldT20 to see how far the team has progressed under Babar

 

[Zaz]

You two mention Babar has bottled multiple chances to win silverware..

Remind me how much have we ever won? Won a T20 WC back in its infancy stages in 2009 when no one took it seriously..

Just look at how well we did in the 2016 Asia Cup and 2016 WorldT20 to see how far the team has progressed under Babar

Exactly Some posters talk like weve won the trophy multiple times and have a brillisnt record in it pre babar

Weve won it once Before 2021 semi we hadnt made a semi for 2-3 tournaments before

And considering we still havent got a middle order numbers5-6 the team is punching well above its weight under babar

 

[SM1989]

Exactly Some posters talk like weve won the trophy multiple times and have a brillisnt record in it pre babar

Weve won it once Before 2021 semi we hadnt made a semi for 2-3 tournaments before

And considering we still havent got a middle order numbers5-6 the team is punching well above its weight under babar

Stop settling for second place and being satisfied with mediocrity. Hold your team to a higher standard. Its about time they start winning tournaments. Babar has failed to win Pakistan any major tournament, until he does, this cult of personality around him is undeserved.

 

[daytrader]

You two mention Babar has bottled multiple chances to win silverware..

Remind me how much have we ever won? Won a T20 WC back in its infancy stages in 2009 when no one took it seriously..

Just look at how well we did in the 2016 Asia Cup and 2016 WorldT20 to see how far the team has progressed under Babar

And only the 1992 World Cup before then, we don't win silverware often. Since 2009 we have won 3 times (World T20, Champions Trophy and Test Mace) yet it's always doom and gloom for some. People have to start recognizing that we're getting better and better

 

[Saj]

The test captaincy is an altogether different matter

8 wins in 18 Tests. 6 losses and 4 draws.

Some of the most clueless captaincy you will ever see.

Test cricket will always be the true test for any captain for me and Babar has fallen way short as a leader in red ball cricket so far in his career.

 

[shaz619]

Babar needs a break from T20’s. He needs to be honest with himself.

Pakistan should wait until after the ODI WC before deciding on next steps regarding his leadership imo

 

[shaz619]

You two mention Babar has bottled multiple chances to win silverware..

Remind me how much have we ever won? Won a T20 WC back in its infancy stages in 2009 when no one took it seriously..

Just look at how well we did in the 2016 Asia Cup and 2016 WorldT20 to see how far the team has progressed under Babar

You’re right, we should be appreciative of this team, but you can’t deny, Pakistan botched two golden opportunities at World Honours which may not come again in some time and T20’s are Pakistan’s best format. So I can understand the fans anger.

 

[msb314]

8 wins in 18 Tests. 6 losses and 4 draws.

Some of the most clueless captaincy you will ever see.

Test cricket will always be the true test for any captain for me and Babar has fallen way short as a leader in red ball cricket so far in his career.

Babar simply does not have the bowlers to win Test matches. Nothing any captain can do when your only decent bowler is SSA..

 

[Rana]

Babar is not sincere because whoever represents him has their own vested interests (financially) and not for the betterment of Pakistan cricket

No wonder you see a pattern of friendship and selfishness

 

[MenInG]

Babar is not sincere because whoever represents him has their own vested interests (financially) and not for the betterment of Pakistan cricket

No wonder you see a pattern of friendship and selfishness

That would be your current saviours in the PCB as well, remember they have ALL the power to put Babar in his place, if they wanted to.

 

[Rana]

That would be your current saviours in the PCB as well, remember they have ALL the power to put Babar in his place, if they wanted to.

I don’t know what dynamics are at play behind the scenes (legally/constitutionally/politically), but by your response it seems you believe Babar is 100% sincere with Pakistan cricket?

 

[emranabbas]

Babar is like that school boy who don't like anyone doing better than him and if anyone does or has a chance to he would bully him.

 

[MenInG]

I don’t know what dynamics are at play behind the scenes (legally/constitutionally/politically), but by your response it seems you believe Babar is 100% sincere with Pakistan cricket?

Babar is doing the job he has been ASKED to do to the best of his ability.

He is not very good at it if we go by the results but that is a different topic.

 

[Major]

Babar is doing the job he has been ASKED to do to the best of his ability.

He is not very good at it if we go by the results but that is a different topic.

Agree with this.

He aint good, but you cant doubt his sincerity.

this thread is hilarious as all those calling babar out for not being sincere are the ones that support amir.. Quite ironic.

 

[Saj]

Agree with this.

He aint good, but you cant doubt his sincerity.

this thread is hilarious as all those calling babar out for not being sincere are the ones that support amir.. Quite ironic.

I don't think this thread has anything to do with Mohammad Amir. He's a different topic.

 

[MenInG]

Babar is doing the job he has been ASKED to do to the best of his ability.

He is not very good at it if we go by the results but that is a different topic.

Should he step-down himself?

I would have if I was him but everyone has different reasons for doing what they do, I will never judge him.

 

[Major]

Should he step-down himself?

I would have if I was him but everyone has different reasons for doing what they do, I will never judge him.

The issue is, if he steps down, there are vultures sitting that can make things difficult.

For example, Babar steps down, and Imad gets to be the captain. He will end up destroying the opening pair, because we know in the past, he never thought Rizwan was good enough to be in t20.
Whoever is made captain, will try to destroy the opening pair that we have got and is performing.

Ok, i will trust Shaheen or Rizwan as captain, but anyone else cannot be trusted.

If he resigns, than he should be told before hand who would be his replacement, as it effects his career aswell.

 

[Rana]

The issue is, if he steps down, there are vultures sitting that can make things difficult.

For example, Babar steps down, and Imad gets to be the captain. He will end up destroying the opening pair, because we know in the past, he never thought Rizwan was good enough to be in t20.
Whoever is made captain, will try to destroy the opening pair that we have got and is performing.

Ok, i will trust Shaheen or Rizwan as captain, but anyone else cannot be trusted.

If he resigns, than he should be told before hand who would be his replacement, as it effects his career aswell.

There you go. Here it from the horse’s mouth yourself guys

Major is an innocent observer, but there is truth to this. Destroying the opening pair means destroying the Moolah that is being raked in by some individuals behind the scenes, hence they need someone from that circle (Shaheen) to ensure their cash cow doesn’t die

 

[MenInG]

There you go. Here it from the horse’s mouth yourself guys

Major is an innocent observer, but there is truth to this. Destroying the opening pair means destroying the Moolah that is being raked in by some individuals behind the scenes, hence they need someone from that circle (Shaheen) to ensure their cash cow doesn’t die

Ok so now you are accusing Babar of corruption? What do you mean exactly here?

 

[Rana]

Ok so now you are accusing Babar of corruption? What do you mean exactly here?

It’s [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] who is saying Babar isn’t stepping down in order to protect the RizBar opening combination, that is clear Malpractice and abuse of power.

Not my words, but the words of someone who advocates for this pair

 

[MenInG]

It’s [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] who is saying Babar isn’t stepping down in order to protect the RizBar opening combination, that is clear Malpractice and abuse of power.

Not my words, but the words of someone who advocates for this pair

That is not the same as accusing someone of financial corruption. That is a serious matter.

I suggest you don't repeat such allegations again.

You are free to say what you like about Babar performances and captaincy.

 

[Rana]

That is not the same as accusing someone of corruption. I suggest you don't repeat such allegations again.

You are free to say what you like about Babar performances and captaincy.

So I can say that by the admittance of one of Babar and Rizwan’s loyal supporters here, Babar is clearly holding on to the captaincy in order to protect certain players in certain positions whilst not considering the overall team?

 

[MenInG]

So I can say that by the admittance of one of Babar and Rizwan’s loyal supporters here, Babar is clearly holding on to the captaincy in order to protect certain players in certain positions whilst not considering the overall team?

I have clarified by editing my post which you did not see when replying.

Let me repeat

1. Do not accuse any player of financial or criminal corruption
2. Apart from that you can say what you like about performance/captaincy/motives - I have no problem with that.

 

[Rana]

I have clarified by editing my post which you did not see when replying.

Let me repeat

1. Do not accuse any player of financial or criminal corruption
2. Apart from that you can say what you like about performance/captaincy/motives - I have no problem with that.

Ok. On captaincy and not on ulterior motives

What explanation does Babar have to bat Iftikhar and Shadab ahead of Imad? I can quote the PSL stats here and also Imad’s performance with the bat against Afghanistan as well.

What is his explanation?

 

[CricVet]

Not one person has ever questioned his place in any kind of a cricket format. It is his decision making which reeks arrogance. I have doubts that he has been ASKED and FORCED to open.

He claimed recently, “The good thing about these youngsters is that they aren't worried about their batting positions. All they say is tell us the plan what is required for the betterment of the team”. The poor kids want to be in the team and are willing to sacrifice their position of strength just to be in the squad. Why not provide them the comfort blanket to first settle in. Shouldn’t Captain Pakistan be able to understand that number 3 and 4 are THE MOST important positions of all since opening in T20 involves slogging and early fall of wicket can be expected. It is the expectation that puts the most pressure on a batsman. I see someone is chickening out of it.

 

[MenInG]

Ok. On captaincy and not on ulterior motives

What explanation does Babar have to bat Iftikhar and Shadab ahead of Imad? I can quote the PSL stats here and also Imad’s performance with the bat against Afghanistan as well.

What is his explanation?

That question needs to be asked of him for sure. But all body language that I saw last night tells me that no one, including Imad had any qualms.

 

[Rana]

That question needs to be asked of him for sure. But all body language that I saw last night tells me that no one, including Imad had any qualms.

Lol. And if Imad did have any qualms, you would have people who would say “we need this guy Imad out of the team because he and his fans are destroying a team that is gelling well”

 

[MenInG]

Lol. And if Imad did have any qualms, you would have people who would say “we need this guy Imad out of the team because he and his fans are destroying a team that is gelling well”

Thread is about Babar - not Imad so I will leave it at that.

 

[Rana]

Agree with this.

He aint good, but you cant doubt his sincerity.

this thread is hilarious as all those calling babar out for not being sincere are the ones that support amir.. Quite ironic.

The issue is, if he steps down, there are vultures sitting that can make things difficult.

For example, Babar steps down, and Imad gets to be the captain. He will end up destroying the opening pair, because we know in the past, he never thought Rizwan was good enough to be in t20.
Whoever is made captain, will try to destroy the opening pair that we have got and is performing.

Ok, i will trust Shaheen or Rizwan as captain, but anyone else cannot be trusted.

If he resigns, than he should be told before hand who would be his replacement, as it effects his career aswell.

Two contradictory statements

On one hand he argues that “there is no doubt in Babar’s sincerity “

On the other hand he argues “Babar stepping down will enable vultures to tear into Rizwan and his opening position”

So what is the definition of “sincerity” in regards to Babar Azam? Do you mean he is sincere in protecting Rizwan? Yes I agree with you on that. Sincerity in regards to the country however…

 

[Saj]

Reminder.

Thread is about Babar Azam.

 

[hitthestump]

You two mention Babar has bottled multiple chances to win silverware..

Remind me how much have we ever won? Won a T20 WC back in its infancy stages in 2009 when no one took it seriously..

Just look at how well we did in the 2016 Asia Cup and 2016 WorldT20 to see how far the team has progressed under Babar

Add in the absolute joke of a squad we picked for 2015 WC as well. I'll add the names here just so people remember how bad it was -

Ahmed Shehzad, Ehsan Adil, Haris Sohail, Misbah-ul-Haq (capt), Mohammad Irfan, Nasir Jamshed, Rahat Ali, Sarfraz Ahmed (wk), Shahid Afridi, Sohaib Maqsood, Sohail Khan, Umar Akmal, Wahab Riaz, Yasir Shah, Younus Khan

We are leaps and bounds ahead under Babar. It'd be disingenious to start deluding ourselves into thinking Pakistan 'bottled silverware' when the pre-Babar era looked like this ^

Babar has several things to improve on and many adjustments he can make, but he has been one of the few net positives for Pakistan along with Rizwan and Shaheen.

 

[IMMY69]

To say Babar Azam is insincere is a ridiculous statement.

Yes Babar has proven to be a poor captain but calling him insincere is frankly stupid.
Why? Because all the issues, and I mean every single issue, batting order, team selection etc is squarely down to the chairman, selectors and the team management.

The issues start from the very top.
You can't blame Babar for this

 

[topspin]

You two mention Babar has bottled multiple chances to win silverware..

Remind me how much have we ever won? Won a T20 WC back in its infancy stages in 2009 when no one took it seriously..

Just look at how well we did in the 2016 Asia Cup and 2016 WorldT20 to see how far the team has progressed under Babar

See this is where you and I differ. I don't have this small team mentality syndrome.

You think Shaheen is trash and appear to be quite satisfied with runner up/semi final finishes whereas I know that our left arm quick is the best player in the side and I believe we have the ability to at least win the Asia Cup.

In terms of silverware and how much we've won:

- IK won the 92 WC
- Moin Khan won the 2000 Asia Cup
- YK won the 2009 WT20
- Misbah won the 2012 Asia Cup
- Sarfraz won the 2017 CT

And guess what, I never rated Moin, Misbah and Sarfraz as captains but at least they could win a tournament. Babar on the hand is a serial failure who's failed to win anything at U19, domestic, PSL and international level.

Babar has better players than what Sarfraz had. Remember the 2017 CT side was still a team in transition. So if you still think this is just about bottling the 2022 WT20 and Asia Cup tournaments then you're wrong.

 

[zarak]

Two contradictory statements

On one hand he argues that “there is no doubt in Babar’s sincerity “

On the other hand he argues “Babar stepping down will enable vultures to tear into Rizwan and his opening position”

So what is the definition of “sincerity” in regards to Babar Azam? Do you mean he is sincere in protecting Rizwan? Yes I agree with you on that. Sincerity in regards to the country however…

It's not contradictory if you assume that Babar sincerely believes him and Rizwan opening is in the teams best interest. I don't doubt his sincerity

 

[topspin]

I don’t know what dynamics are at play behind the scenes (legally/constitutionally/politically), but by your response it seems you believe Babar is 100% sincere with Pakistan cricket?

If the rumours are true about Shakil Sheikh wanting to dismantle the clique of Babar Azam cheerleaders in the team then I really hope he does what needs to be done.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories but whatever is going on behind the scenes it does seem suspect based on their social media activity + gatherings.

I'm tempted to ask a good friend of mine who's close to Rana Naved and Mushtaq Ahmed as to what's really going on.

 

[zarak]

If the rumours are true about Shakil Sheikh wanting to dismantle the clique of Babar Azam cheerleaders in the team then I really hope he does what needs to be done.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories but whatever is going on behind the scenes it does seem suspect based on their social media activity + gatherings.

I'm tempted to ask a good friend of mine who's close to Rana Naved and Mushtaq Ahmed as to what's really going on.

Would this not kill the overall morale. Surely, if you put players against each other it would not be ideal for the dressing room. Making players insecure, punishing them for statements seems a bit mentally taxing.

 

[Third Man]

To say Babar Azam is insincere is a ridiculous statement.

Yes Babar has proven to be a poor captain but calling him insincere is frankly stupid.
Why? Because all the issues, and I mean every single issue, batting order, team selection etc is squarely down to the chairman, selectors and the team management.

The issues start from the very top.
You can't blame Babar for this

Well, he's insecure at least, if not insincere. Scoring a hundred against this bowling attack and celebrating like he's done it in a world cup final is a little embarrassing for player of his caliber and reeks of insecurity. He should have higher standards than that.

And yes, the LOI team has certainly improved markedly from the dark days of the early and mid 10s and Babar's batting certainly has a role in that, but so does the emergence of a few solid LOI bowlers and recently a couple of decent young batsmen. We should now seriously set our sights on trying to win a world cup or two, and you don't prepare for that by playing your most experienced team and stat padding against a minnow level team.

 

[Zaz]

See this is where you and I differ. I don't have this small team mentality syndrome.

You think Shaheen is trash and appear to be quite satisfied with runner up/semi final finishes whereas I know that our left arm quick is the best player in the side and I believe we have the ability to at least win the Asia Cup.

In terms of silverware and how much we've won:

- IK won the 92 WC
- Moin Khan won the 2000 Asia Cup
- YK won the 2009 WT20
- Misbah won the 2012 Asia Cup
- Sarfraz won the 2017 CT

And guess what, I never rated Moin, Misbah and Sarfraz as captains but at least they could win a tournament. Babar on the hand is a serial failure who's failed to win anything at U19, domestic, PSL and international level.

Babar has better players than what Sarfraz had. Remember the 2017 CT side was still a team in transition. So if you still think this is just about bottling the 2022 WT20 and Asia Cup tournaments then you're wrong.

Nobody apart from you remembers who was captain when asia cups were won or when they were won

Its hardly an achievement and one noone apart from you who would thump their chest about or use as a stick to beat babar up with

A t20 world semi and final isnt "bottling" The team fought and fought well in them games

Babar is about to become the captain with most t20 wins

He doesnt need your certificate His record speak for itself

 

[topspin]

Would this not kill the overall morale. Surely, if you put players against each other it would not be ideal for the dressing room. Making players insecure, punishing them for statements seems a bit mentally taxing.

Dismantling a clique does not mean putting players against each other. It's called restoring normality. For me it's all too friendly, as Imad said "friendships have to be put aside, the mindset has to change".

 

[Third Man]

Nobody apart from you remembers who was captain when asia cups were won or when they were won

Its hardly an achievement and one noone apart from you who would thump their chest about or use as a stick to beat babar up with

A t20 world semi and final isnt "bottling" The team fought and fought well in them games

Babar is about to become the captain with most t20 wins

He doesnt need your certificate His record speak for itself

Yes he's about to become the captain with the most pointless T20 wins against Zimbabwe, SA C and NZ C. No one takes bilateral T20s seriously and neither should we.

 

[zarak]

Dismantling a clique does not mean putting players against each other. It's called restoring normality. For me it's all too friendly, as Imad said "friendships have to be put aside, the mindset has to change".

Yes but those reports about removing Shadab as VC because he made some oro Babar statements seemed a bit harsh. It's like a highschool principle giving detention. Cliques should be dismantled but one should create a high performing environment where players feel relaxed. Hope both can be done.

 

[PakEngFan]

It’s very funny how all of a sudden Asia cup has become a prestigious tournament no one care about Asia cup but because Babar didn’t perform now it has become an ICC trophy.

 

[topspin]

Yes but those reports about removing Shadab as VC because he made some oro Babar statements seemed a bit harsh. It's like a highschool principle giving detention. Cliques should be dismantled but one should create a high performing environment where players feel relaxed. Hope both can be done.

There was to more to it than that. He was throwing the likes of Saim Ayub, Abdullah Shafique and Mohammad Haris under the bus.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Babar Azam has scored three T20I centuries, two of which came while chasing targets, one against South Africa and one against England.

 

[Rana]

Babar is not sincere because whoever represents him has their own vested interests (financially) and not for the betterment of Pakistan cricket

No wonder you see a pattern of friendship and selfishness

I said this before the conflict of interest thing broke out

There is no smoke without fire. Ever