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Babar Azam No 1 (batsman) and Shadab Khan No 2 (bowler) in ICC's latest T20I Rankings [Update #183]

Mamoon said:
A complete farce - an artificial ranking built on beating weak opposition. Any half-decent would go top in the rankings with the following schedule over the last two years:

10 matches against West Indies - a team that doesn't play its full-strength team in T20s and usually doesn't perform well in bilaterals.

3 matches against Sri Lanka - a rubbish team.

3 matches against New Zealand - it was a good win, but the small boundaries bridged the gap between our batsmen and New Zealand's power-hitters.

1 match against England - a good win, but one match proves nothing.

2 matches against Scotland - no explanation needed.

0 matches against India, South Africa and Australia. This side is at best the fourth/fifth best T20 team.

"greatest T20 team of all time" with Shehzad, Sarfraz and Malik in the lineup, and 0 matches against three top teams.
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Ok yes we've beat some rubbish teams but your excuse for the NZ series is stupid. The boundaries were the same for both teams so you can't use that to downplay it.
 
Part of the reason we are so strong in T20s as we have quite a few players who are top tier.

I think for T20s, the great players average above 30 with the bat or 20 or lower with the ball. Babar averages 53, Sarfraz and Malik average over 30. Shadab averages 15, Amir averages 20. Hasan 21. Faheem 19. Talat currently averaging over 50 We just have more players with excellent records in T20s.

In ODIs we have much fewer, really great players in that format average 50 with the bat or mid/low 20s with the ball. Which for us is just Babar, Hasan and arguably Fakhar. So 3 great ODI players vs the 8 or so we have in T20s.

In tests even worse, we don't even have arguably one.

So in summary makes sense we are no.1 in T20s, we have more top tier players in our line up than the rest. We are lacking that exceptional player in T20s like Ajmal, Gul, Afridi though. We're also lacking a real big power hitter that other teams have. But this team is made up of consistent performers, hence on average is going to do well.

In other formats this is the problem. We whine about match winners or lack of a big hitter etc., but really if everyone was just more consistent we could become a top team. But when you average 35 or average 30 with the ball, it's just not good enough to compete with the best.
 
Should target ODI rankings instead of T20. T20 rankings are extremely volatile. Domestic T20 are taken more seriously by most countries than international T20.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Updated T20I rankings <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/QxYbm2F3Ju">pic.twitter.com/QxYbm2F3Ju</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1007202352057724929?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
hadi123 said:
Ok yes we've beat some rubbish teams but your excuse for the NZ series is stupid. The boundaries were the same for both teams so you can't use that to downplay it.
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Short boundaries give weaker batsmen more value for their shots. A power-hitter will not get extra credit for his big hits, but a defensive-minded batsmen's 60m hit might go for a six.

Babar and Sarfraz batted with 170+ strike rates, and we both know that they are not capable of doing that against quality bowlers and fielders in big grounds.

Pakistan won the decider T20 because Amin hit three sixes in four balls (18 runs), targeting the very short boundary at the Bay Oval, the ground where Munro hit consecutive T20 hundreds and he was unavailable for that match.

We both know Amin's capability of hitting the big shots in good sized grounds, and Pakistan won that game by the same margin as Amin's slog-fest, i.e. exactly 18 runs.
 
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Who even takes pride in T20 rankings? Most top teams hardly play half a dozen T20 internationals a year and unlike WI or Pakistan, they don't even take the format seriously.
 
Mamoon said:
Short boundaries give weaker batsmen more value for their shots. A power-hitter will not get extra credit for his big bats, but a defensive-minded batsmen's 60m hit might go for a six.

Babar and Sarfraz batted with 170+ strike rates, and we both know that they are not capable of doing that against quality bowlers and fielders in big grounds.

Pakistan won the decider T20 because Amin hit three sixes in four balls (18 runs), targeting the very short boundary at the Bay Oval, the ground where Munro hit consecutive T20 hundreds and he was unavailable for that match.

We both know Amin's capability of hitting the big shots in good sized grounds, and Pakistan won that game by the same margin as Amin's slog-fest, i.e. exactly 18 runs.
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This is some bizarre logic. When NZ were batting, were the boundaries pushed all the way back. It was the same for both teams mate! The better team won, I haven't known a single fan to make as many strange excuses as you do when the team they 'support' wins.
 
hadi123 said:
This is some bizarre logic. When NZ were batting, were the boundaries pushed all the way back. It was the same for both teams mate! The better team won, I haven't known a single fan to make as many strange excuses as you do when the team they 'support' wins.
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It was the same for both teams, but short boundaries benefit weak hitters more. If you were to pitch a team with power hitters against a team with weak hitters, what would you do to make things more even?

Assuming that you cannot tinker with the flat pitch, the first thing you would do is to make the boundaries smaller.
 
Mamoon said:
It was the same for both teams, but short boundaries benefit weak hitters more. If you were to pitch a team with power hitters against a team with weak hitters, what would you do to make things more even?

Assuming that you cannot tinker with the flat pitch, the first thing you would do is to make the boundaries smaller.
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Well if the boundaries were smaller, how come NZ couldn't score more runs than us?
 
Mamoon said:
They didn't have their most explosive batsman.
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Cricket is a team game. You are using the absence of 1 player as an excuse. Wow. I respect some of your opinions but your logic regarding this match is just absurd mate.
 
Mamoon said:
It was the same for both teams, but short boundaries benefit weak hitters more. If you were to pitch a team with power hitters against a team with weak hitters, what would you do to make things more even?

Assuming that you cannot tinker with the flat pitch, the first thing you would do is to make the boundaries smaller.
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Actually, it can work both ways Mamoon - PAK actually has better T20 attack than Kiwis (or had, I can’t recall which XI they fielded). That will work in favour of PAK if the boundaries were longer - lots of Kiwi slogging against Shadab & Nawaz could end in hands at 70 metre length.

To me, the biggest issue for PAK T20 is, almost every game they play possible best XI, which hardly any top team does it n T20 and PAK does that against every opponent - no point Amir, Hasan & Sarfraz playing these 2 games against SCT and then I see Malik is probably MoS, when he shouldn’t have been in squad at all. Can’t recall, but not sure if in that T20 series, Kiwis field their possible best XI or not.

I haven’t seen any of the games, but the playing XI & then opting to bat first both times is a bit over kill against SCT. Margin of victory was comprehensive but SCTs won’t chase anything against PAK attack, and Sarfraz opted to bat first both times ...

PAK has to better AUS in ZIM (though not sure whom are coming for AUS, but I'll take that - every AUS team is toughest competitors); otherwise these ranking position won’t look good.
 
MMHS said:
Actually, it can work both ways Mamoon - PAK actually has better T20 attack than Kiwis (or had, I can’t recall which XI they fielded). That will work in favour of PAK if the boundaries were longer - lots of Kiwi slogging against Shadab & Nawaz could end in hands at 70 metre length.

To me, the biggest issue for PAK T20 is, almost every game they play possible best XI, which hardly any top team does it n T20 and PAK does that against every opponent - no point Amir, Hasan & Sarfraz playing these 2 games against SCT and then I see Malik is probably MoS, when he shouldn’t have been in squad at all. Can’t recall, but not sure if in that T20 series, Kiwis field their possible best XI or not.

I haven’t seen any of the games, but the playing XI & then opting to bat first both times is a bit over kill against SCT. Margin of victory was comprehensive but SCTs won’t chase anything against PAK attack, and Sarfraz opted to bat first both times ...

PAK has to better AUS in ZIM (though not sure whom are coming for AUS, but I'll take that - every AUS team is toughest competitors); otherwise these ranking position won’t look good.
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I take your reasoning, but it is still one game against a team that had won 6 out of the 7 games in the series and were without their main striker who had scored back to back tons on that ground.

I agree that the T20s vs Australia will tell us more. No doubt it is a better side than what we have had in the last few years, but it hasn't been properly tested yet.

However, if Australia were to win, we will hear a lot about how this team lost momentum after a break. Similar to how they were blanked in New Zealand because the lost the momentum generated by the Champions Trophy.
 
hadi123 said:
Cricket is a team game. You are using the absence of 1 player as an excuse. Wow. I respect some of your opinions but your logic regarding this match is just absurd mate.
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A team game yes, but Munro is a massive player for NZ in T20s, and probably the best batsman in the world at the Bay Oval. I respect the fact that you respect some of my opinions, and it is fine if you think my reasoning here is absurd.
 
hadi123 said:
Cricket is a team game. You are using the absence of 1 player as an excuse. Wow. I respect some of your opinions but your logic regarding this match is just absurd mate.
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You can't use this logic to Mamnoon. You should have used his same logic and said, Pakistan were without No.1 T20I bowler(at that time), Imad Wasim in the whole series. Haha.
 
Mamoon said:
A team game yes, but Munro is a massive player for NZ in T20s, and probably the best batsman in the world at the Bay Oval. I respect the fact that you respect some of my opinions, and it is fine if you think my reasoning here is absurd.
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Colin Munro was replaced by Ross Taylor for that match due to his injury. So if Munro was playing, Taylor wouldn't and he scored 25 off 11 balls. No guarantees that Munro would have bettered that
 
Mamoon said:
I take your reasoning, but it is still one game against a team that had won 6 out of the 7 games in the series and were without their main striker who had scored back to back tons on that ground.

I agree that the T20s vs Australia will tell us more. No doubt it is a better side than what we have had in the last few years, but it hasn't been properly tested yet.

However, if Australia were to win, we will hear a lot about how this team lost momentum after a break. Similar to how they were blanked in New Zealand because the lost the momentum generated by the Champions Trophy.
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The last para is for blogging - people have to win in debate for that sake of it. More or less, regular members here do understand their cricket. What you are trying to say is unquantifiable - won’t ever win in that battle. Put measurable parameters, there’ll be lots of silence.

PAK failed to make last 2 T20 WC SFs, but they were not Ranked one that time, which is now - so obviously it’s a valid point that had T20 WC been there in 2018, PAK should have a real good shot.

In that line - I expect PAK to win 3-0 against AUS, who’ll be under strength and who are not the best T20 side. At least a 2-1 is bare minimum, otherwise no point in ranking - for a record, they are actually 2nd, so a 2-1 for AUS should take them above PAK, and it ends there.

If not, just don’t bother to reciprocate lots of trash, people will try to settle scores calling you attention seeker (but don’t forget to congratulate if it’s 3-0 as well 😜)
 
Undoubtedly the best T20 team in the world. Excellent bowling attack, even the bench strength bowlers are becoming man of the match and some excellent all rounders at disposal.

If T20 is the furure of cricket as many say and considering many leagues for this particular format then we know where the future lies. 😜
 
I am waiting for an India vs Pakistan T20 series.If Pak can win this then :shhh to everyone complaining.
 
Paul Stirling, Kyle Coetzer and Richard Berrington reach career-best batsmen rankings, while George Dockrell and Mark Watt storm into top 20 bowlers' chart.

Left-arm spinners George Dockrell of Ireland and Mark Watt of Scotland have made it to the top 20 of the MRF Tyres ICC T20I Player Rankings after some fine performances in recent matches.

Dockrell’s five wickets in the four matches of the Netherlands tri-series have helped him re-enter the rankings in 19th position while Watt is one slot below him after taking three wickets from five matches, including a two-match series against Pakistan.

In the rankings for batsmen, Ireland opener Paul Stirling has reached a career-best 27th position after scores of 51 and 81 against Scotland with the Scotland pair of Kyle Coetzer and Richard Berrington not too far behind him at career-best positions of 31 and 32, respectively.

For the Netherlands, Wesley Barresi (52nd) and Ben Cooper (65th) are the leading batsmen in the rankings list while fast bowlers Paul van Meekeren (26th) and Timm van der Gugten (28th) have made their presence felt among bowlers.

Meanwhile, in the MRF Tyres ICC T20I Team Rankings, Scotland have lost four points but remain in 11th position while the Netherlands have lost three points and slipped behind the United Arab Emirates to 14th place. Ireland remain in 17th position after taking a three-point hit.


https://www.icc-cricket.com/media-releases/746019
 
Man I really want to see what Shahab will be like in 10 years from now, what achievements he’ll have, wickets, captaincy possibly, memorable wins he sontributes to. I know, I know, Pakistani cricketers of recent past have come and faded away in 5 years max, but this guy is inspirational. Has charisma, work ethic, and the talent to be a true international star. Am really proud of him and wish him all the best.
 
Looking at the lack of high quality all rounders out there I am hoping shadab and even faheem can reach the top 10 all rounders list in t20s and odis very soon.
 
T20, no one cares much about T20, ranking in ODI and test is a real deal and something to be proud of .
 
Mainul said:
I am waiting for an India vs Pakistan T20 series.If Pak can win this then :shhh to everyone complaining.
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Easy win for Pak, looks like you did not watch CT 2017 (even though they were not T20s). No competition at all.
 
kuskash said:
Easy win for Pak, looks like you did not watch CT 2017 (even though they were not T20s). No competition at all.
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Some posters are pointing towards Pakistan winning some T20 easy wins against easier oppositions which made a significant contribution behind this no 1 ranking of Pakistan team in T20I.Recently Pakistan didn't play any T20s against India,Australia,South Africa.Its a valid point.If Pakistan can beat them they will be regarded as true no 1.
 
Mainul said:
Some posters are pointing towards Pakistan winning some T20 easy wins against easier oppositions which made a significant contribution behind this no 1 ranking of Pakistan team in T20I.Recently Pakistan didn't play any T20s against India,Australia,South Africa.Its a valid point.If Pakistan can beat them they will be regarded as true no 1.
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Pakistan beating the current Australian team won't shut up the critics that's for sure
 
I wouldn't have thought of Babar being no.1 in T20s as I don't seem to recall him setting the format on fire, but I'll take it - any postives is a good thing as we embark on rebuilding our teams.
 
Kroll said:
I wouldn't have thought of Babar being no.1 in T20s as I don't seem to recall him setting the format on fire, but I'll take it - any postives is a good thing as we embark on rebuilding our teams.
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You don't remember because he didn't. T20 rankings are completely useless without any usefulness. They're extremely volatile, and you gain tons of points even if you bash minnows.
 
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