Babar Azam versus Lokesh Rahul

[jnaveen1980]

I think what some of us are missing out is couple of things -

Rahul can be as good as anybody in terms of potential, but that will matter if he starts converting that potential into impactful outcome in a more consistent manner which has been missing till recent past.

Second regardless of what Rahul or Babar has accomplished, I see some posters often get distracted by focussing more on ridiculing one of them. Comparison is fine as long as it is done impartially without trying to taking shots at each other.

True. Anyone with an eye for skills, talents, potentials will not take KL Rahul lightly.

 

[Arya]

Talentwise, Rahul >> Babar

But Babar has achieved more with the limited abilities he has, so I'll prefer him in my team any day.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Mayank his state mate has overtaken him in tests. But in one dayers he can continue improving. He has the skills , talents to do well there. Not a hack like some players.

Speaking of Mayank, not sure why we don't consider him for ODIs. Rahul has done better in IPL but Mayank mentally seems a lot more stronger than Rahul.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Speaking of Mayank, not sure why we don't consider him for ODIs. Rahul has done better in IPL but Mayank mentally seems a lot more stronger than Rahul.

they are branding players as "top order" "middle order". All good batsmen would bat in the top order for their state side. So it is ridiculous to typecast them

 

[Waleed93]

I will continue to make fun of the posters who hype Babar to the Moon. The day his average crosses 50 and continue to stay there for a substantial amount of time I will reluctantly swallow my ego and accept that I was wrong. Till then you will have to find a way to deal with it.

If he started off with slowly in Tests with an initial average of 23 in 2017, his average will obviously not shoot up to 55 in the matter of a couple of series.

It will gradually rise to 30, then to 35, then to 45, before eventually touching 50. Keeping in mind the fact that Pakistan hardly play as many Tests as India, England or Australia, he will obviously take more time in terms of years taken to achieve that 50 average landmark.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

they are branding players as "top order" "middle order". All good batsmen would bat in the top order for their state side. So it is ridiculous to typecast them

Even as a top order bat, I'd take Mayank in the ODI squad over Rahul tbh.

 

[sharmaji]

Babar Azam is better, easily. But KL Rahul is no mug either. Both are very exciting to watch when in flow.

 

[Mesozoic]

For those saying that Rahul has to do a lot more to be even compared to Babar, here's an interesting stat...

No of match winning hundreds against top teams in all the formats (Aus, Eng ,SA, NZ) :-

KL Rahul - 3
Babar Azam - 2

This despite Rahul playing 30 odd games less than Babar. You have the clue now.

I genuinely agree that Babar is a better bat than KL but people are going way overboard here making claims far too tall as if Babar has achieved some ATG status.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Talentwise, Rahul >> Babar

But Babar has achieved more with the limited abilities he has, so I'll prefer him in my team any day.

What do you even mean?

How do you measure talent??

What are the units for measuring talent??

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

For those saying that Rahul has to do a lot more to be even compared to Babar, here's an interesting stat...

No of match winning hundreds against top teams in all the formats (Aus, Eng ,SA, NZ) :-

KL Rahul - 3
Babar Azam - 2

This despite Rahul playing 30 odd games less than Babar. You have the clue now.

I genuinely agree that Babar is a better bat than KL but people are going way overboard here making claims far too tall as if Babar has achieved some ATG status.

Tbf, match winning 100s is mostly a useless metric cos more often than not..winning depends on your team strength.

Number of 100s against XYZ opponent is more accurate.

Of course impact knocks are impact knocks.

Babar's WC knock against NZ was serious quality.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

For those saying that Rahul has to do a lot more to be even compared to Babar, here's an interesting stat...

No of match winning hundreds against top teams in all the formats (Aus, Eng ,SA, NZ) :-

KL Rahul - 3
Babar Azam - 2

Rahul plays for a stronger team. Who knew?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What do you even mean?

How do you measure talent??

What are the units for measuring talent??

Usually... Its natural stroke making along with ability to construct long innings.

KL is ridiculously talented there.

When in rhythm, he makes Kohli look inferior (no disrespect to Kohli who is far more clinical and methodical).

 

[jusarrived]

Won’t be long before KL even statistically leaves Babar behind in all three formats . I had doubts if he will get enough opportunities , but he’s made the most of it recently. I will be surprised if he dosent run Virat close in 1-2 years time .

Babar will always be a league below in LOIs , big striking is 50% of the game these days when 350 scores are par . It’s Tests where Babar could make a name for himself , while I have a feeling LoI game has already impacted KLs technique way too much for him to succeed as a Test opener .

 

[jnaveen1980]

For those saying that Rahul has to do a lot more to be even compared to Babar, here's an interesting stat...

No of match winning hundreds against top teams in all the formats (Aus, Eng ,SA, NZ) :-

KL Rahul - 3
Babar Azam - 2

This despite Rahul playing 30 odd games less than Babar. You have the clue now.

I genuinely agree that Babar is a better bat than KL but people are going way overboard here making claims far too tall as if Babar has achieved some ATG status.

At this point Babar is a consistent batsman like Amla was in one dayers. Still a long way to go. In Tests He is below guys like Labuschangne at this point slightly above Rahul.

 

[Titan24]

Talentwise, Rahul >> Babar

But Babar has achieved more with the limited abilities he has, so I'll prefer him in my team any day.

Many said talentwise Umar Akmal >> Kohli which was ridiculous and this is too. Talent is useless if it cant produce runs.

Babar is the youngest in the top 10 rankings across the formats and has broken few records of fastest to certain milestones in ODIs as well. How can he do that without talent?

There is another thread on Khalil Ahmed vs Shaheen Shah. Cant wait to see how some people will start saying how Khalil> Shaheen on talent when he will take 2,3 wickets in an ODI.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Won’t be long before KL even statistically leaves Babar behind in all three formats . I had doubts if he will get enough opportunities , but he’s made the most of it recently. I will be surprised if he dosent run Virat close in 1-2 years time .

Babar will always be a league below in LOIs , big striking is 50% of the game these days when 350 scores are par . It’s Tests where Babar could make a name for himself , while I have a feeling LoI game has already impacted KLs technique way too much for him to succeed as a Test opener .

If he gets his mind right he can get there. He definitely is better than the stats. Definitely let us down in Tests with his T20 style slogs in Australia.

 

[Darkrai]

I haven't been following the Indian team or any other team except for Pakistan, but it seems that Rahul has improved.

Going by the posts, Rahul should surpass Babar soon, maybe this year, because he is far more talented with a much higher sealing. Also, given that he plays with potential all-time great players in one the best team ever, it's only a matter of time and a foregone conclusion that he will turn out better than Babar.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I haven't been following the Indian team or any other team except for Pakistan, but it seems that Rahul has improved.

Going by the posts, Rahul should surpass Babar soon, maybe this year, because he is far more talented with a much higher sealing. Also, given that he plays with potential all-time great players in one the best team ever, it's only a matter of time and a foregone conclusion that he will turn out better than Babar.

Had he played for Bangladesh, Srilanka, Afghanistan he would have had better stats lol Seriously there is no way he can bat at the place he wants to bat at and pace at which he wants score at. It is going to be largely dictated by big 3 in his side. He will look a stifled batsman in this current Indian line up. Even if Smith plays for India he would walk at 4. Most likely he will get like 10 overs to bat.

 

[Hyperion66]

Do you honestly believe that Rahul is on the same level as Babar after today's performance ?

This is a vague question. How do you determine Rahul's level who hasn't played 30 odi games till now? He has never been given a consistent run let alone a consistent spot. One has to be one hell of an unlucky guy to fight for a spot against the likes of Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli. Babar, albeit much ahead in terms of stats for now, hasn't shown much match winning ability against top teams bar that innings against NZ (which was phenomenal BTW) despite playing almost 3 times more games than Rahul.

Based on the stats and other facts that we have right now, I don't think we can clearly determine who is the better among them, they may not be rookies but surely haven't played enough games to come to a conclusion like that.

Personally I think Babar possesses some quality that Rahul doesn't seem to have right now, likewise there are things that Rahul can do that Babar can't. As of now Rahul doesn't have the consistency and hunger of Babar and Babar doesn't have remarkable hitting prowess of Rahul.

 

[JaDed]

Talentwise, Rahul >> Babar

But Babar has achieved more with the limited abilities he has, so I'll prefer him in my team any day.

Imo Babar is not limited in abilities just gear and that too only against best bowlers, he has utilized his abilities better and taken more responsibilities but don’t see him being inferior in abilities to Rahul..

Also Babar is improving at a faster rate.

 

[JaDed]

I haven't been following the Indian team or any other team except for Pakistan, but it seems that Rahul has improved.

Going by the posts, Rahul should surpass Babar soon, maybe this year, because he is far more talented with a much higher sealing. Also, given that he plays with potential all-time great players in one the best team ever, it's only a matter of time and a foregone conclusion that he will turn out better than Babar.

Playing with talented players makes him take no responsibilities.

India needs to do a Rohit with him, give him a permanent position- middle order and make him take responsibility.

 

[Hyperion66]

Had he played for Bangladesh, Srilanka, Afghanistan he would have had better stats lol Seriously there is no way he can bat at the place he wants to bat at and pace at which he wants score at. It is going to be largely dictated by big 3 in his side. He will look a stifled batsman in this current Indian line up. Even if Smith plays for India he would walk at 4. Most likely he will get like 10 overs to bat.

Couldn't agree more. Seemingly educated folks here doesn't seem to understand one simple fact that when you play for a strong team your performance is heavily scrutinized and you are fighting a continuous battle to keep your place in the team unless you are atgs like Rohit, Kohli. Hell even the likes of Dhawan just fought tooth and nail for his opening spot. If Babar was Indian he would have never been given a consistent run let alone allowing him to bat at his comfort zone and at the pace he is comfortable at. He will be thrown in a few matches at different spots and posters here would be complaining non stop how he is too slow for no 4 and 5 and how Kohli isn't selecting the Bradmans sitting on bench lol.

 

[JaDed]

Babar is an excellent batsman but India doesn’t need a Babar , we need peak Dhoni,Yuvi or Raina.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Babar is an excellent batsman but India doesn’t need a Babar , we need peak Dhoni,Yuvi or Raina.

If India is looking for someone who bats at no.6 in domestic then they will get inferior players. In domestic only inferior players bats at that position. Best batsmen in domestic always bats up the order. But we discard them saying they are top order players. This is why guys like Shaw, Agarwal, Gill, Panchal, Easwaran are not even getting a look.

 

[Darkrai]

Had he played for Bangladesh, Srilanka, Afghanistan he would have had better stats lol Seriously there is no way he can bat at the place he wants to bat at and pace at which he wants score at. It is going to be largely dictated by big 3 in his side. He will look a stifled batsman in this current Indian line up. Even if Smith plays for India he would walk at 4. Most likely he will get like 10 overs to bat.

When you are considered as one of the best talents in the world with the ability to change gears at will, batting anywhere in the top 4 shouldn't be a big issue.
If you check his stats, he has been given many chances as an opener but he failed to deliver against good teams. He played as an opener against England in India in a 3 match series, where his highest score was just 11. Then, he played at 3 and 4 against SL, but his highest score was 17. Then, he played against England again at 3 and 4, but he failed. After that, he played many matches at 3 and 4 and opened in the Asia Cup, but his performances weren't good enough against good teams. His stats look good because of his performances against Zimbabwe and a couple of 100s against WI and SL.

His problem wasn't the fact that he didn't have enough chances or enough overs to bat when he played at 3 and 4, he just wasn't good enough at the time. This is backed up by the fact that he had good performances against Zimbabwe and occasionally against SL.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Won’t be long before KL even statistically leaves Babar behind in all three formats . I had doubts if he will get enough opportunities , but he’s made the most of it recently. I will be surprised if he dosent run Virat close in 1-2 years time .

Babar will always be a league below in LOIs , big striking is 50% of the game these days when 350 scores are par . It’s Tests where Babar could make a name for himself , while I have a feeling LoI game has already impacted KLs technique way too much for him to succeed as a Test opener .

Lmao, this clown predicted this before and went into hiding. You're gonna make a fool of yourself again.

 

[Waleed93]

This is a vague question. How do you determine Rahul's level who hasn't played 30 odi games till now? He has never been given a consistent run let alone a consistent spot. One has to be one hell of an unlucky guy to fight for a spot against the likes of Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli. Babar, albeit much ahead in terms of stats for now, hasn't shown much match winning ability against top teams bar that innings against NZ (which was phenomenal BTW) despite playing almost 3 times more games than Rahul.

Based on the stats and other facts that we have right now, I don't think we can clearly determine who is the better among them, they may not be rookies but surely haven't played enough games to come to a conclusion like that.

Personally I think Babar possesses some quality that Rahul doesn't seem to have right now, likewise there are things that Rahul can do that Babar can't. As of now Rahul doesn't have the consistency and hunger of Babar and Babar doesn't have remarkable hitting prowess of Rahul.

Fair enough.

In my opinion, Rahul should be selected and played as a specialist No.4 batsman now, since Dhoni is most probably not going to play for India now. Moreover, he practically can't play in the top order, with Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli being still around.

I think you have to look at things from a different point of view regarding Babar's match winning abilities. He is playing in a very mediocre team, surrounded by average batsmen like Imam, Fakhar, with the likes of Hafeez and Malik capable of making a comeback anytime. In recent memory, most of his 50+ scores in ODIs have resulted in Pakistan wins, as we saw in the WC.

If he was to play in the current NZ team, replacing Williamson, his record as a match winner would have been even better as he would play with the likes of Taylor and Guptill instead of mediocre batsmen.

Rahul, while clearly being more naturally talented, would have probably struggled to carry this Pakistani batting line up, as you need to mentally strong to bat alongside rubbish batsmen, and knowing the fact that your wicket can lead the team from a 103-1 situation to a 132-5 situation in no time.

That being said, Rahul still deserves credit for his big hitting ability, where he is comparable to Rohit only, who on his day, is as destructive as Viv. Babar leads against him in other aspects such as consistency, mental toughness, hunger to score runs in all conditions, etc...

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Indian hype brigade at it again.

 

[Hyperion66]

Fair enough.

In my opinion, Rahul should be selected and played as a specialist No.4 batsman now, since Dhoni is most probably not going to play for India now. Moreover, he practically can't play in the top order, with Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli being still around.

I think you have to look at things from a different point of view regarding Babar's match winning abilities. He is playing in a very mediocre team, surrounded by average batsmen like Imam, Fakhar, with the likes of Hafeez and Malik capable of making a comeback anytime. In recent memory, most of his 50+ scores in ODIs have resulted in Pakistan wins, as we saw in the WC.

If he was to play in the current NZ team, replacing Williamson, his record as a match winner would have been even better as he would play with the likes of Taylor and Guptill instead of mediocre batsmen.

Rahul, while clearly being more naturally talented, would have probably struggled to carry this Pakistani batting line up, as you need to mentally strong to bat alongside rubbish batsmen, and knowing the fact that your wicket can lead the team from a 103-1 situation to a 132-5 situation in no time.

That being said, Rahul still deserves credit for his big hitting ability, where he is comparable to Rohit only, who on his day, is as destructive as Viv. Babar leads against him in other aspects such as consistency, mental toughness, hunger to score runs in all conditions, etc...

Very good post. I may not agree with it completely but I surely appreciate the way you articulated your thoughts here. Most posters just read one off posts and lose their shitz over it. I have never said Babar is inferior or Rahul is a world beater, just that we need to patiently wait and observe where they take their respective careers from here. Exciting times ahead if you ask me.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Like I told y'all before, Indians fear Babar the most and they will do everything to bring him down. He continues to take his game to the next level and they fear what he could become because there's no ceiling in sight.

 

[JaDed]

If India is looking for someone who bats at no.6 in domestic then they will get inferior players. In domestic only inferior players bats at that position. Best batsmen in domestic always bats up the order. But we discard them saying they are top order players. This is why guys like Shaw, Agarwal, Gill, Panchal, Easwaran are not even getting a look.

Agree somewhat, Gill should be brought in coz he can change his game ,don’t think Mayank can but should be brought in instead of Dhawan as an opener.

Not sure about where Shaw fits yet in LOI.

 

[jusarrived]

Lmao, this clown predicted this before and went into hiding. You're gonna make a fool of yourself again.

Haha I predicted Babar would be the next being thing for pak and KL for india from their U19 days , am already proved right .you can check my posts about both batsmen even before their debut. Haven’t been wrong about too many batsmen .

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Like I told y'all before, Indians fear Babar the most and they will do everything to bring him down. He continues to take his game to the next level and they fear what he could become because there's no ceiling in sight.

I think a lot of Indians don't see Babar as a big deal because he has not performed against India. Those are the matches most people watch and Babar has been mediocre in those games.

 

[Mean&Green]

At least I am not hyping someone as the top 3 bat in the world with one match winning odi knock against top teams and 40 something average in test cricket. My standard may or may not be low but surely higher than you guys. Come back when Babar wins you a match bashing Starc and Cummins even at home.

Yeah now it’s 40 right before when you use to troll him what was his average 30 right so he’s improving and who’s better babar where is rahul in test cricket can’t even find a place in the team. Also come back here when rahul is even in the top ten odi batsman right now he’s nowhere near what’s his ranking like 71 lmao and you have the audacity to compare him to babar. What’s his test ranking 51 lol and yet you have the audacity to compare him to Babar. He doesn’t match class or ranking of babar in any format except maybe t20s even in that he’s still behind. Also every time he scores a run please stop getting excited it makes you look very stupid and amateur for getting excited over every other innings of his when he’s not even consistent or not even a permanent in any of the three formats except t20.

 

[globalcitizen]

This comparison of Babar vs Rahul seems reasonable but very childish if you do it for every knock. At age 25 Babar has good odi credentials, and among both only he has chance to reach the status of kohli at age 30.

Rahul is some one who is still finding his place and approach and starting to come good. And if he can continue as the wk and perform well he can really boost the team combination and be an asset to the team.

But ultimately it comes down to who can play some crunch knocks and perform will be remembered for long time. So for now I will put Babar at front with 1 top knock against NZ

 

[Arya]

Many said talentwise Umar Akmal >> Kohli which was ridiculous and this is too. Talent is useless if it cant produce runs.

Babar is the youngest in the top 10 rankings across the formats and has broken few records of fastest to certain milestones in ODIs as well. How can he do that without talent?

There is another thread on Khalil Ahmed vs Shaheen Shah. Cant wait to see how some people will start saying how Khalil> Shaheen on talent when he will take 2,3 wickets in an ODI.

Khalil is not more than Shaheen on talent bro, no one says that. But like Bhaijan above said, Lokesh's talent is in the same league as Kohli and Rohit's. While Babar is very good, anyone with an eye for batting talent can see that Rahul should easily surpass Babar if he fulfils his potential even 80%.

 

[cricketjoshila]

At this point in time Babbar is ahead by some distance.

But the way he is hyped is mind boggling.

Someone here claimed that no one knows what is Babbar's ceiling. Lol. He is a high quality player. But the hype is too much.

Even Kohli and Smith are not hyped like thisand they are at different level to Babbar.

 

[Waleed93]

At this point in time Babbar is ahead by some distance.

But the way he is hyped is mind boggling.

Someone here claimed that no one knows what is Babbar's ceiling. Lol. He is a high quality player. But the hype is too much.

Even Kohli and Smith are not hyped like thisand they are at different level to Babbar.

Kohli or Smith don't need to be hyped anymore. They are well established players and the best Test and ODI batsmen respectively.

Babar is hyped for mainly 3 reasons :

1.He is by far the best batsman Pakistan has produced since Yousuf, and he already is well above a lot of so called great Pakistani batsmen when it comes to pure batsmanship.

2. He is the only Pakistan batsman who has not vanished after a couple of good performances, which is the norm when it comes to our batters.

3. He is easily the best batsman of his generation, obviously behind the likes of Kohli, Smith, Rohit, Warner, etc...but ahead of most batsmen of his age group. I would argue that at this stage, he is better than Root in ODIs, and Rohit in Tests, but it's debatable.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Speaking of Mayank, not sure why we don't consider him for ODIs. Rahul has done better in IPL but Mayank mentally seems a lot more stronger than Rahul.

Cos our management is a dumba**.

Turned India into a choker unit.

Bilateral bullies.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Indian cricket is beyond corrupt lol.

 

[Hyperion66]

Yeah now it’s 40 right before when you use to troll him what was his average 30 right so he’s improving and who’s better babar where is rahul in test cricket can’t even find a place in the team. Also come back here when rahul is even in the top ten odi batsman right now he’s nowhere near what’s his ranking like 71 lmao and you have the audacity to compare him to babar. What’s his test ranking 51 lol and yet you have the audacity to compare him to Babar. He doesn’t match class or ranking of babar in any format except maybe t20s even in that he’s still behind. Also every time he scores a run please stop getting excited it makes you look very stupid and amateur for getting excited over every other innings of his when he’s not even consistent or not even a permanent in any of the three formats except t20.

You can build a dhol with Babar's ranking and do bhangra on its beats for all I care. All I asked you is to list out Babar's innings bar the one against NZ which are better than Rahul's knock in terms of quality. Since you clearly can't so I don't see why you have to respond with childish rants. Don't reply for the heck of it, reply only when you can refute my argument point by point.

 

[Hyperion66]

Kohli or Smith don't need to be hyped anymore. They are well established players and the best Test and ODI batsmen respectively.

Babar is hyped for mainly 3 reasons :

1.He is by far the best batsman Pakistan has produced since Yousuf, and he already is well above a lot of so called great Pakistani batsmen when it comes to pure batsmanship.

2. He is the only Pakistan batsman who has not vanished after a couple of good performances, which is the norm when it comes to our batters.

3. He is easily the best batsman of his generation, obviously behind the likes of Kohli, Smith, Rohit, Warner, etc...but ahead of most batsmen of his age group. I would argue that at this stage, he is better than Root in ODIs, and Rohit in Tests, but it's debatable.

kindly list out who are those ' so called great Pakistani batsmen" that Babar already left behind in terms of batsmanship?

 

[H_shah]

Haha its funny how some pak fans get so worked up with this comparison, just take it as a good banter.
Both players are good and improving while babr is clearly better at the point,ita also true he has been given a really long and cosistant run which rahul hasn't and with current form rahul is in dont know how you can write off this comparision because unlike kohli vs akmal thread , here babar is no kohli and nor is rahul anything like kamran.

Babar has been excellent for the country he is playing while for rahul, he has some amazingly tough compitition and he hardly gets to play up the order due to india having one of the best top3 combo.

Lets just see how the next six months go before judging either of them

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Like I told y'all before, Indians fear Babar the most and they will do everything to bring him down. He continues to take his game to the next level and they fear what he could become because there's no ceiling in sight.

Respect sure. Babar is on the ascendancy.

Fear I don't think so.

Same way, i dont think most Pakistanis fear or even rate Rahul and that's ok cos he went astray.

 

[Banton10]

Babar azam will be a better wc player kohli.
Babar will dominate 2023 wc.

 

[malcom_86]

Babar is clearly the better batsman at the moment.

Babar's test graph is exponentially increasing since '18, while KL's test career is in obscurity.
Babar has been one of the top 5 ODI batters for some period now while KL is still figuring out his place in the team. It is mighty close in T20s, IMO Babar takes the cake due to the fact that he plays in a *** all lineup.

 

[Titan24]

You can build a dhol with Babar's ranking and do bhangra on its beats for all I care. All I asked you is to list out Babar's innings bar the one against NZ which are better than Rahul's knock in terms of quality. Since you clearly can't so I don't see why you have to respond with childish rants. Don't reply for the heck of it, reply only when you can refute my argument point by point.

Forget home track bullying, below are Babar's knocks against 6 different oppositions in 5 different countries at 6 different venues. They were all high quality knocks and not to forget away as well and you can ask any neutral cricket follower:

-> 83 of 77 balls vs NZ at Eden Park (2016)

-> 100 of 109 balls vs Aus at Adelaide oval (2017)

-> 125* of 132 balls vs WI at Providence Stadium (2017)

-> 115 of 112 vs Eng balls at Trent Bridge (2019)

-> 69 of 72 balls vs SA at Super Sports Park (2019)

-> 96 off 98 balls vs BD at Lords (2019 WC)

 

[Waleed93]

kindly list out who are those ' so called great Pakistani batsmen" that Babar already left behind in terms of batsmanship?

In ODIs, he has already gone past Misbah, Younis, Saleem Malik, Ijaz Ahmed, Hafeez, etc... after just 70 odd games.

The only Pakistani batsmen above him in this format are Inzamam, Yousuf, Anwar and Miandad.

Inzamam had a poor WC record but he still ended up with 11,000 ODI runs, and had very good record against arch rivals India, and if Babar stays fit and consistent enough till the age of 34-35, he will eventually go past his record.

Yousuf was a run machine, but again, was mostly a soft run scorer who ended up with 9,000 runs and would have crossed 10,000 had the PCB supported him in his twilight years. Babar has already proved he is not the typical soft run scorer, as we saw in the WC. He can score in any conditions and Yousuf will be the next Pakistani batsman he will surpass if he continues to bat in this way.

Anwar still remains the greatest ever Pakistani opener, and looking at our current and upcoming opening batsmen, it looks like he is destined to stay there for quite some time. Babar is set to break his record for the most ODI hundreds by a Pakistani batsman, and will go past it by the time he has played 150 ODIs.

Miandad is probably the toughest one to beat here, and in my opinion, the only one who really stands tall between Babar and the title of Pakistan's greatest ever batsman.

 

[Usman Chadda]

So many excuses for KL Rahul. Even more than Pakistanis made for Umar Akmal lol.

It's amazing how much the whole of India wants this lad to succeed, and he is still content with sporadic performances.

Babar needs to improve his hitting prowess, no doubt about it. But I would much rather take a consistent run-machine, than go through the ordeal of another Umar Akmal.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Top 10 averaged batsmen for Pakistan. 7 of them are current players. Are they all better than the past players? Cannot be a coincidence they all average decently.

 

[Titan24]

Top 10 averaged batsmen for Pakistan. 7 of them are current players. Are they all better than the past players? Cannot be a coincidence they all average decently.

View attachment 98400

Its not just for Pak. Kohli, Dhoni, Rohit for India, Amla, ABD for SA, Root, Bairstow for Eng, Hope for WI, Williamson for NZ they are all highest or one of the highest averaging batsmen for their countries in ODIs.

3 in the list havent even played 5 matches so that shouldnt count while the rest other than Babar are yet to play 50 matches

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

So many excuses for KL Rahul. Even more than Pakistanis made for Umar Akmal lol.

It's amazing how much the whole of India wants this lad to succeed, and he is still content with sporadic performances.

KL Rahul has scored 699 runs @49.92 in the last 12 months in ODIs.

 

[Titan24]

KL Rahul has scored 699 runs @49.92 in the last 12 months in ODIs.

A good patch for him which is part and parcel of cricket and he is not the only one who averaged close to 50 in a 12 month period, if he continues it for 2-3 more years than we can actually compare. Just to give an example Haris Sohail also averages 50 in last 12 months and he created impact in WC matches as well.

 

[Hyperion66]

Forget home track bullying, below are Babar's knocks against 6 different oppositions in 5 different countries at 6 different venues. They were all high quality knocks and not to forget away as well and you can ask any neutral cricket follower:

-> 83 of 77 balls vs NZ at Eden Park (2016)

-> 100 of 109 balls vs Aus at Adelaide oval (2017)

-> 125* of 132 balls vs WI at Providence Stadium (2017)

-> 115 of 112 vs Eng balls at Trent Bridge (2019)

-> 69 of 72 balls vs SA at Super Sports Park (2019)

-> 96 off 98 balls vs BD at Lords (2019 WC)

1. Good innings but clearly wasn't enough in a pocket sized ground. Not as good as Rahul"s knock.

2. Match losing selfish innings, enough said.

3. Strike rate under 100 after facing 130+ is criminal by current standard, irrespective of the pitch condition and bowling faced.

4. Good but his lack of big hitting ability was clearly visible and was an eyesore to be honest, I watched that match. Considering the pitch condition and match situation Malik's little cameo had more impact on the game.

5. A nothing special knock against a decent attack, was comfortably outbatted by the likes of Hafiz, Imad, Imam and Hendricks for crying out loud.

6. Oh okay ��

 

[austerlitz]

Babar azam is much better atm.Rahul has better potential in LOIs.But test decides who is better batsman.I have always said babar was only proper batsman in pak side.

 

[Hyperion66]

Forget home track bullying, below are Babar's knocks against 6 different oppositions in 5 different countries at 6 different venues. They were all high quality knocks and not to forget away as well and you can ask any neutral cricket follower:

-> 83 of 77 balls vs NZ at Eden Park (2016)

-> 100 of 109 balls vs Aus at Adelaide oval (2017)

-> 125* of 132 balls vs WI at Providence Stadium (2017)

-> 115 of 112 vs Eng balls at Trent Bridge (2019)

-> 69 of 72 balls vs SA at Super Sports Park (2019)

-> 96 off 98 balls vs BD at Lords (2019 WC)

To add to my last post, none of the innings are match winning knocks, bar the ones against WI and BD. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

To add to my last post, none of the innings are match winning knocks, bar the ones against WI and BD.

Individuals don't win matches. Teams do.

Rahul probably is more guilty of not playing high-impact innings in ODIs at the top of the order than Babar.

 

[Titan24]

To add to my last post, none of the innings are match winning knocks, bar the ones against WI and BD. Correct me if I am wrong.

Its not Babar's fault that Pak has been poor in ODIs. Even Rahul's knock which has given life to this thread again was good but he came in at 198/3 in 32.4 overs and India wouldnt have won the match without the contribution of others.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Respect sure. Babar is on the ascendancy.

Fear I don't think so.

Same way, i dont think most Pakistanis fear or even rate Rahul and that's ok cos he went astray.

Not fans like you. I know you guys are reasonable. The ones I'm talking about know who they are.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

I think a lot of Indians don't see Babar as a big deal because he has not performed against India. Those are the matches most people watch and Babar has been mediocre in those games.

Fear as in he has the potential to become the best batsman in the world not what he will do against India. They are a stronger team regardless of his performances.

 

[Titan24]

1. Good innings but clearly wasn't enough in a pocket sized ground. Not as good as Rahul"s knock.

2. Match losing selfish innings, enough said.

3. Strike rate under 100 after facing 130+ is criminal by current standard, irrespective of the pitch condition and bowling faced.

4. Good but his lack of big hitting ability was clearly visible and was an eyesore to be honest, I watched that match. Considering the pitch condition and match situation Malik's little cameo had more impact on the game.

5. A nothing special knock against a decent attack, was comfortably outbatted by the likes of Hafiz, Imad, Imam and Hendricks for crying out loud.

6. Oh okay ��

Bro with your criteria we might end up including Rahul's 80 runs were better than whatever Steve Smith, Williamson as well as Babar has done in their entire career.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Haha I predicted Babar would be the next being thing for pak and KL for india from their U19 days , am already proved right .you can check my posts about both batsmen even before their debut. Haven’t been wrong about too many batsmen .

Yeah, and you limited him to a 40-45 average. Good joke, buddy.

 

[Titan24]

To add to my last post, none of the innings are match winning knocks, bar the ones against WI and BD. Correct me if I am wrong.

Also just to add I havent even mention Babar's knocks at home which include match winning ones as well.

 

[Abdullah719]

Babar has been pretty much carrying the batting since he came into the ODI team, whereas Rahul has much more freedom, being the fourth-best batsman in the team, at best. Completely different type of pressures. They are probably fairly similar ability-wise with Rahul having the 5th gear, but so far he hasn't shown the same level of mental aptitude.

Matches where each have played:

[table=class:grid][tr][td]Player[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO[/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Imam-ul-Haq[/td][td]34[/td][td]5[/td][td]1660[/td][td]151[/td][td]57.24[/td][td]2037[/td][td]81.49[/td][td]7[/td][td]6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Babar Azam[/td][td]72[/td][td]10[/td][td]3359[/td][td]125*[/td][td]54.17[/td][td]3857[/td][td]87.08[/td][td]11[/td][td]15[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Fakhar Zaman[/td][td]46[/td][td]4[/td][td]1958[/td][td]210*[/td][td]46.61[/td][td]2056[/td][td]95.23[/td][td]4[/td][td]13[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sharjeel Khan[/td][td]14[/td][td]0[/td][td]618[/td][td]152[/td][td]44.14[/td][td]474[/td][td]130.37[/td][td]1[/td][td]5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Haris Sohail[/td][td]14[/td][td]1[/td][td]549[/td][td]89[/td][td]42.23[/td][td]622[/td][td]88.26[/td][td]0[/td][td]6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Hafeez[/td][td]50[/td][td]6[/td][td]1752[/td][td]103[/td][td]39.81[/td][td]2041[/td][td]85.84[/td][td]2[/td][td]12[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Imad Wasim[/td][td]32[/td][td]13[/td][td]735[/td][td]63*[/td][td]38.68[/td][td]675[/td][td]108.88[/td][td]0[/td][td]3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sarfaraz Ahmed[/td][td]54[/td][td]15[/td][td]1442[/td][td]105[/td][td]36.97[/td][td]1611[/td][td]89.5[/td][td]1[/td][td]9[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shoaib Malik[/td][td]54[/td][td]10[/td][td]1551[/td][td]101*[/td][td]35.25[/td][td]1734[/td][td]89.44[/td][td]1[/td][td]11[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Azhar Ali[/td][td]29[/td][td]0[/td][td]874[/td][td]101[/td][td]30.13[/td][td]1194[/td][td]73.19[/td][td]1[/td][td]6[/td][/tr][/table]


[table=class:grid][tr][td]Player[/td][td]Inns[/td][td]NO[/td][td]Runs[/td][td]HS[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]BF[/td][td]SR[/td][td]100[/td][td]50[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RG Sharma[/td][td]21[/td][td]3[/td][td]1491[/td][td]159[/td][td]82.83[/td][td]1498[/td][td]99.53[/td][td]9[/td][td]4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Dhawan[/td][td]13[/td][td]1[/td][td]716[/td][td]143[/td][td]59.66[/td][td]648[/td][td]110.49[/td][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Dhoni[/td][td]16[/td][td]5[/td][td]644[/td][td]134[/td][td]58.54[/td][td]747[/td][td]86.21[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli[/td][td]24[/td][td]2[/td][td]1158[/td][td]131[/td][td]52.63[/td][td]1143[/td][td]101.31[/td][td]2[/td][td]10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KL Rahul[/td][td]27[/td][td]4[/td][td]1016[/td][td]111[/td][td]44.17[/td][td]1211[/td][td]83.89[/td][td]3[/td][td]6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KM Jadhav[/td][td]15[/td][td]4[/td][td]407[/td][td]120[/td][td]37.00[/td][td]358[/td][td]113.68[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HH Pandya[/td][td]15[/td][td]4[/td][td]381[/td][td]56[/td][td]34.63[/td][td]333[/td][td]114.41[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RR Pant[/td][td]9[/td][td]0[/td][td]297[/td][td]71[/td][td]33.00[/td][td]278[/td][td]106.83[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][/tr][/table]

 

[majiz]

its becoming increasingly apparent to me that pakistan are the only nation standing between the big 3 and a global cricket monopoly . i am white british born in a west sussex hospital but im not scared to admit that i hope naseem shah and babar azam dominate england this summer

 

[Ab Fan]

This thread doesn't deserve this many posts.

 

[Hyperion66]

Individuals don't win matches. Teams do.

Rahul probably is more guilty of not playing high-impact innings in ODIs at the top of the order than Babar.

Individuals who are hyped as potential ATGs should at least make the team stronger than it was before. You take out Pak's odi stats from 2012-2016 and compare it with post Babar Pak from 2017-20 I am pretty sure there won't be much of a difference result wise, hell if anything Pak used to win more matches back then. What is the point of having such stat padding individual in the team? Consistency is overrated, if You can't win matches, can't help win matches, your team lose despite you scoring consistently, I am sorry but then you are probably ain't good enough.

Rahul played 28 odi so far and batted in every position possible from top to middle. Let him play 70 matches like Babar then we can whine about his impact. [MENTION=142432]Titan24[/MENTION]

 

[Ronaldo7]

1. Good innings but clearly wasn't enough in a pocket sized ground. Not as good as Rahul"s knock.

2. Match losing selfish innings, enough said.

3. Strike rate under 100 after facing 130+ is criminal by current standard, irrespective of the pitch condition and bowling faced.

4. Good but his lack of big hitting ability was clearly visible and was an eyesore to be honest, I watched that match. Considering the pitch condition and match situation Malik's little cameo had more impact on the game.

5. A nothing special knock against a decent attack, was comfortably outbatted by the likes of Hafiz, Imad, Imam and Hendricks for crying out loud.

6. Oh okay ��

Only if you analysed Rahul's knock this much lol

Rahul's innings was nothing special tbh.

Scored an 80 when his team was cruising on a dead pitch at home. big deal lol

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Fear as in he has the potential to become the best batsman in the world not what he will do against India.

There's no fear. Most Indians probably remember the innings by Fakhar Zaman in the Champions Trophy Final than anything by Babar.

 

[Hyperion66]

Only if you analysed Rahul's knock this much lol

Rahul's innings was nothing special tbh.

Scored an 80 when his team was cruising on a dead pitch at home. big deal lol

Changed the complexion of the game in a matter of few overs after India lost Kohli and Pandey back to back and another mediocre total looked like real possibility. Something I don't expect Babar fans to understand. Come back after Babar bashes the likes of Starc and Cummins on a dead pitch and win a match for you for a change.

 

[Abdullah719]

You take out Pak's odi stats from 2012-2016 and compare it with post Babar Pak from 2017-20

Pakistan's batting stats (overall aggregate) from the end of the 2011 World Cup until Babar's debut:

average 28.28
strike-rate 77.75

Pakistan's batting stats since Babar's debut:

average 35.48
strike-rate 88.28

The reason for Pakistan's decline in terms of results has been the bowling. Umar Gul's career came to an end, Saeed Ajmal was banned, Junaid Khan declined.

Bowling stats from 2011 World Cup until Babar's debut:

average 32.81
economy 4.85

Pakistan's bowling stats since Babar's debut:

average 36.13
economy 5.30

Batting vastly improved during the 2nd half of the 2010s, but bowling declined. The batting improved considerably, but it didn't improve to a level where it can override the deficiencies of the bowling attack.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Changed the complexion of the game in a matter of few overs after India lost Kohli and Pandey back to back and another mediocre total looked like real possibility. Something I don't expect Babar fans to understand. Come back after Babar bashes the likes of Starc and Cummins on a dead pitch and win a match for you for a change.

LOL what??

When Kohli got out, India were 276-4 after 43. When Pandey got out, India were 280-5 after 44.

In what world is 280-5 after 44 a mediocre score or how would it have resulted in a mediocre score? even if you had scored 40 in the last 6, you'd still have 320 on the board. You made 250ish in the first ODI after 50 and you were already 280 in 44 here with only 5 wickets down.

60 in the last 6 is normal in this day and age.

You're acting like as if you scored 80+ in the last 5 and Rahul was the reason LOL

 

[Hyperion66]

Pakistan's batting stats (overall aggregate) from the end of the 2011 World Cup until Babar's debut:

average 28.28
strike-rate 77.75

Pakistan's batting stats since Babar's debut:

average 35.48
strike-rate 88.28

The reason for Pakistan's decline in terms of results has been the bowling. Umar Gul's career came to an end, Saeed Ajmal was banned, Junaid Khan declined.

Bowling stats from 2011 World Cup until Babar's debut:

average 32.81
economy 4.85

Pakistan's bowling stats since Babar's debut:

average 36.13
economy 5.30

Batting vastly improved during the 2nd half of the 2010s, but bowling declined. The batting improved considerably, but it didn't improve to a level where it can override the deficiencies of the bowling attack.

Excuses galore. This is like saying we would have won every cup since 2013 if we had peak Dhoni, Yuvi, Raina. If you are really that good, you alone can patch a lot of holes in your team. Every single ATG won games on their own. You can research for new excuses but the fact remains, stat alone don't make you ATG, Amla has all the stats in the world and more even then people debate about his ATG status.

 

[Sam99]

Babar is great player but he is no match winner. I know he don't have great team but still even on his best days he can't win you match against top side. I will wait to see if he can improve himself and start winning matches on his day alone.

 

[Hyperion66]

LOL what??

When Kohli got out, India were 276-4 after 43. When Pandey got out, India were 280-5 after 44.

In what world is 280-5 after 44 a mediocre score or how would it have resulted in a mediocre score? even if you had scored 40 in the last 6, you'd still have 320 on the board. You made 250ish in the first ODI after 50 and you were already 280 in 44 here with only 5 wickets down.

60 in the last 6 is normal in this day and age.

You're acting like as if you scored 80+ in the last 5 and Rahul was the reason LOL

Would have scored 80+ in the last 5 if Jadeja made use of the full tosses he got. Unlike most teams our tailenders struggle to hold the bat and Jadeja isn't a very reliable loi bat, we could have genuinely been all out within 300 and lost the match if Rahul started slogging blindly. Again I don't expect most Babar fans to understand such nitty-gritty of the game.

 

[Abdullah719]

Excuses galore. This is like saying we would have won every cup since 2013 if we had peak Dhoni, Yuvi, Raina. If you are really that good, you alone can patch a lot of holes in your team. Every single ATG won games on their own. You can research for new excuses but the fact remains, stat alone don't make you ATG, Amla has all the stats in the world and more even then people debate about his ATG status.

You said Pakistan's results have worsened, I gave you the reasons... If you don't want to accept that, that's OK.

A team with an above-average batting lineup (not amongst the best, but better than most) will beat weaker teams most of the time but will have problems defeating stronger teams, which is what has been the theme for Pakistan in ODIs over the past few years. A team with a strong bowling attack can defeat stronger teams on occasion (like Pak won in Ind in 2012, in SA in 2013) even while being a poor batting side, that's just how it is. No team has sustained success with a poor bowling lineup.

I know that you're referring to even one-off performances which happen sometimes like a crazy 100 off 50 balls or something but these knocks aren't common and don't define greatness otherwise Afridi was a great. Consistent performances at a high level are much more valuable.

There was concern over Babar's ability to a) play impactful innings, b) fare well against strong lineups and c) hit big and he has allayed those concerns to an extent over the past 18 months or so with his performances in the World Cup and some of his displays in T20s recently. One area of possible concern is his performances in chases, he is much more comfortable setting up totals at the moment and that's reflected in his stats. He should improve further, given that he's still just 25.

 

[Ronaldo7]

I don't expect most Babar fans to understand such nitty-gritty of the game.

You can’t talk. You’re a fan of a guy who tried to play t20 cricket in a test match in Aus.

The guy is a hack.
The proof is in his test career. He’s just fallen

 

[Mean&Green]

1. Good innings but clearly wasn't enough in a pocket sized ground. Not as good as Rahul"s knock.

2. Match losing selfish innings, enough said.

3. Strike rate under 100 after facing 130+ is criminal by current standard, irrespective of the pitch condition and bowling faced.

4. Good but his lack of big hitting ability was clearly visible and was an eyesore to be honest, I watched that match. Considering the pitch condition and match situation Malik's little cameo had more impact on the game.

5. A nothing special knock against a decent attack, was comfortably outbatted by the likes of Hafiz, Imad, Imam and Hendricks for crying out loud.

6. Oh okay

Lol all these knocks are better than one innings that rahul has just played on the flattest of roads in the world. Rajkot cricket pitch should be called a highway it’s flat than a pancake made out of cement. If babar ever plays in India you will see the amount of runs he will score even though ur still crying after my mates already listed his innings I don’t need to say much plus I already said his innings can’t be compared to any of Babars innings. Babar carries the whole team on his shoulders rahul getting out or not doesn’t even mean much to the team. Babars importance to Pakistani team is like kohli and Rahuls importance to the Pakistani team is like an imad or Hafeez who come down in the lower order to hit like rahul did the other day or again not even comparable this innings though you can cry to the heavens about it but it will not be comparable to babar plus and he’s nowhere close to babar and that’s a fact so keep trying and crying.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Its not just for Pak. Kohli, Dhoni, Rohit for India, Amla, ABD for SA, Root, Bairstow for Eng, Hope for WI, Williamson for NZ they are all highest or one of the highest averaging batsmen for their countries in ODIs.

3 in the list havent even played 5 matches so that shouldnt count while the rest other than Babar are yet to play 50 matches

Not really. Dhoni made debut somewhere in 2005. Rohit also made debut in 2007. That is more than 12 years back. But Pak players in the last 2 or 3 years.

 

[Titan24]

Not really. Dhoni made debut somewhere in 2005. Rohit also made debut in 2007. That is more than 12 years back. But Pak players in the last 2 or 3 years.

Look at Rohit’s averaged in last 5-6 years vs 2007 odd. Yes Dhoni started is earlier but played most part of the last decade.. Even of you wanna include late 2000s, this still shows its a new phenomenon as before that most of the top batsmen averaged 40-45 mostly with the exception of Bevan. Kohli, Dhoni, ABD, Amla, Williamson, Root, Bairstow, Babar, Haris etc are just recent players and this.