Ballerina Squad vs Spreadsheet Clan - Whose opinion do you think is worth more?

[asfandyar]

Any discussion on PP usually beholds a heated debate between two categories of posters:

1. Ballerina Squad: Posters in this category are of the view that cricket is played in a certain way, and any deviation from the norms is grounds for annihilation. Elegance in batting and bowling speed are of utmost importance, and runs/wickets carry secondary significance. A team comprising 11 Justin Bieber's (with Justin Bieber as the twelfth man) would be a dream come true. Their role model is Umar Amin.
   
2. Spreadsheet Clan: These posters are number geeks. Give them a cheese omelette, and they will find ways to factorize it. They are the reason why Cricinfo's stats guru suffers downtime, and for them, you can make the team if you have runs and wickets under your belt at a healthy average and SR, even if you bat and bowl with your legs. Fawad Alam and Sadaf Hussain are their eternal role models.

Which group do you belong to, and why is the opinion of either of them worth more than the other?

 

[Major]

Spreadsheet clan.

Why?
Because they have proven numbers. Be it Afridi or Misbah. Their performance in domestic reflects their performance at international.

 

[Syed1]

Proudly in the Spreadsheet clan category.

At the end of the day a match is won if you score one more run than your opposition (or stop them from scoring that extra run). It doesn't matter how it is achieved. Whether you were bowling with your wrong hand or batting with your back to the bowler, doesn't matter, as long as you win.

 

[Big Mac]

Pfffft, I am part of the Mankad Massive.

An elite crew whose main purpose is to laugh at those delicate snowflakes who hold the 'Spirit of Cricket' to be sacrosanct and long for the good old days when you needed to go to private schools and Oxbridge in order to captain England.

 

[shaz619]

any discussion on pp usually beholds a heated debate between two categories of posters:

1. ballerina squad: Posters in this category are of the view that cricket is played in a certain way, and any deviation from the norms is grounds for annihilation. Elegance in batting and bowling speed are of utmost importance, and runs/wickets carry secondary significance. A team comprising 11 justin bieber's (with justin bieber as the twelfth man) would be a dream come true. Their role model is umar amin.
   
2. spreadsheet clan: These posters are number geeks. Give them a cheese omelette, and they will find ways to factorize it. They are the reason why cricinfo's stats guru suffers downtime, and for them, you can make the team if you have runs and wickets under your belt at a healthy average and sr, even if you bat and bowl with your legs. Fawad alam and sadaf hussain are their eternal role models.

which group do you belong to, and why is the opinion of either of them worth more than the other?

potw

 

[aloo paratha]

Spreadsheet clan obviously.

 

[shaz619]

Pfffft, I am part of the Mankad Massive.

An elite crew whose main purpose is to laugh at those delicate snowflakes who hold the 'Spirit of Cricket' to be sacrosanct and long for the good old days when you needed to go to private schools and Oxbridge in order to captain England.

Booo!

 

[Citizen4]

I guess I'm a part of Spreadsheet Clan. Numbers don't Lie (well sometimes they do tbh)

With that said, most members of our clan do point out whenever numbers lie, recent examples are Hafeez in the last ODI series, Malik also since his comeback, although he is certainly better than Hafeez right now.

I don't follow stats blindly, I watch matches then point out stuff, for example Ballerina Squad is too busy pointing out the Explosive Talunt of Umar Akmal when he clearly looks garbage on the crease, they fail to see it then I have to come up with numbers like "since the start of 2015 he only averages 26 with the SR of 80 and that's horrible"
[MENTION=34564]asfandyar[/MENTION] you must be a part of Spreadsheet Clan as well considering that you support Fawad Alam!

 

[msb314]

Any discussion on PP usually beholds a heated debate between two categories of posters:

1. Ballerina Squad: Posters in this category are of the view that cricket is played in a certain way, and any deviation from the norms is grounds for annihilation. Elegance in batting and bowling speed are of utmost importance, and runs/wickets carry secondary significance. A team comprising 11 Justin Bieber's (with Justin Bieber as the twelfth man) would be a dream come true. Their role model is Umar Amin.
   
2. Spreadsheet Clan: These posters are number geeks. Give them a cheese omelette, and they will find ways to factorize it. They are the reason why Cricinfo's stats guru suffers downtime, and for them, you can make the team if you have runs and wickets under your belt at a healthy average and SR, even if you bat and bowl with your legs. Fawad Alam and Sadaf Hussain are their eternal role models.

Which group do you belong to, and why is the opinion of either of them worth more than the other?

Although I have my own views - I would rather side with the Spreadsheet clan who atleast have some facts and data to back up their opinions e.g. [MENTION=136079]ahmedwaqas92[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

 

[Rayyman]

Although I have my own views - I would rather side with the Spreadsheet clan who atleast have some facts and data to back up their opinions e.g. [MENTION=136079]ahmedwaqas92[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Spreadsheet clan is guys like [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION], [MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION], etc.

 

[msb314]

Spreadsheet clan is guys like [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION], [MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION], etc.

AhmedWaqas92 does highly detailed statistical analysis on players and games.

He is the epitome of the category IMO.

 

[aloo paratha]

Spreadsheet clan is guys like [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION], [MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION], etc.

Proud of it as well

Obviously watching the matches is important as well but stats just prove what you see.

 

[Square Drive]

If I had to pick one, spreadsheet clan.

It's all about the runs and wickets and not how they're achieved.

Shiv Chanderpaul is a prime example.

 

[Sports_Psychologist]

If I had to pick one, spreadsheet clan.

It's all about the runs and wickets and not how they're achieved.

Shiv Chanderpaul is a prime example.

Hashim Amla to a certain extent as well..

 

[Ellipsism]

Seeing the examples the OP provided I assume this is centred around domestic cricket in Pakistan.

If statistics were the only criteria for selection why isn't it an automated process done through a computer? Why the need for selectors?

I personally believe that the selectors should be keeping an eye out for players that they believe have the capacity/ability to prosper at the international level, once they perform pick em'.

The criteria for selection is a combination of both performances and ability, and it should remain that way.

This method of picking players solely based on performances isn't implied by any cricketing nation.

 

[Major]

This is actually a really interesting thread.

While players are most likely selected based on the spread sheet formula, but a player could also get dropped or not selected due to the Ballerina formula. But at the same time its very rare to get selected base on the Ballerina formula

The Ballerina formula of Pakistan pace bowlers suggests that you need to be express pace.

Because of this Sadaf Hussain couldn't get selected and it took Abbas to get selected after many years. While at the same time a non performing Wahab Riaz is still playing.

Fawad Alam is also another example.

 

[asfandyar]

I guess I'm a part of Spreadsheet Clan. Numbers don't Lie (well sometimes they do tbh)

With that said, most members of our clan do point out whenever numbers lie, recent examples are Hafeez in the last ODI series, Malik also since his comeback, although he is certainly better than Hafeez right now.

I don't follow stats blindly, I watch matches then point out stuff, for example Ballerina Squad is too busy pointing out the Explosive Talunt of Umar Akmal when he clearly looks garbage on the crease, they fail to see it then I have to come up with numbers like "since the start of 2015 he only averages 26 with the SR of 80 and that's horrible"
[MENTION=34564]asfandyar[/MENTION] you must be a part of Spreadsheet Clan as well considering that you support Fawad Alam!

My membership of the spreadsheet clan is a well known public matter. However, I tried to keep the OP as neutral as I possibly could.

 

[spade]

Brilliant thread, but there has to be a third choice with a blend of the two for instance stats of a particular country can be skewed for instance Australia and India where batting is ridiculously easy and doesn't test the batsman at all, specially india with 65m grounds and lightning quick outfield thanks to the manicured surfaces, it makes a mediocre player compile impressive stats compared to say in West indies or england where testing surfaces and slow outfield takes the sheen of the former conditions and players on dispassionate analysis.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

I fall into another category which is a combination of the above 2 but more than style and numbers I give a lot of weight to match situations and conditions. I love watching matches because only after watching you can know whats going on in the field. My role models are team players like Sarfraz etc.

 

[imshally81]

In between of both....
btw... Great Thread

 

[Hasan123]

How I judge a batsmen is how they look at the crease. Also if they are able to play both sides of the wickets vs pace and spin. I don't think you can be so limited and favour one side so much as with the amount of analysis and video technology you will get found out. Also how they do in pressure situations is another good indicator. Technical aspects is another obvious thing you look for.

You do need numbers of course, but for the spreadsheet clan are you going to back someone like Manzoor who has the numbers over someone like Talat who has shown he has ability and if coached correctly can be a good batsmen?

Saying that if someone is averaging under 35 with a SR of under 85 after 40/50 games you won't be looking to invest in a player like that unless he has played some brilliant knocks.

Bowlers are a little more harder to judge. I think you want to see how they do outside of there comfort zone and what there numbers are. So it's a mixture of both. Bowlers probably require a little more coaching on the technical aspect. I think the more you bat the better you get. The more you bowl you might get fitter but I still think there are certain things you will want to work on outside of games.


I wouldn't say I am in the spreadsheet clan tbh and but I wouldn't put myself in the ballerina clan. I would say I'm in between. OP should have added a 3rd group.

So overall, if I can see the player has ability and technique to work with and has played some good innings or bowled some match winning spells I'll back him. Someone with good numbers in domestic cricmet I'll probably want to see them play a few innings or bowl some spells before judging them especially Pakistani batsmen or bowler.

 

[dildildalwalla]

Any discussion on PP usually beholds a heated debate between two categories of posters:

1. Ballerina Squad: Posters in this category are of the view that cricket is played in a certain way, and any deviation from the norms is grounds for annihilation. Elegance in batting and bowling speed are of utmost importance, and runs/wickets carry secondary significance. A team comprising 11 Justin Bieber's (with Justin Bieber as the twelfth man) would be a dream come true. Their role model is Umar Amin.
   
2. Spreadsheet Clan: These posters are number geeks. Give them a cheese omelette, and they will find ways to factorize it. They are the reason why Cricinfo's stats guru suffers downtime, and for them, you can make the team if you have runs and wickets under your belt at a healthy average and SR, even if you bat and bowl with your legs. Fawad Alam and Sadaf Hussain are their eternal role models.

Which group do you belong to, and why is the opinion of either of them worth more than the other?

Aren't there people with more balanced views than these?

 

[the_best]

You can belong to both squad or none of them. That is why selectors for. One prime example Trescothick. In no way he could be a selection from ballerina squad. But during his selection he was not in Stat Nerd group. English selectors select him and bingo. I think he is one of the few player who have higher average in Test than in FC. On the other hand selection of Lara, Gower , Mahela you could be in both school. But for player like Chandrapal, Dhoni or Rohit Sharma, Ashraful you either needed to be a nerd or a ballerina. My opinion if you have five dhonis you could afford a rohit but not the other way