Banned outfit leaders were taken into custody to ‘protect’ them from Indian planes: Bilawal

[The_Odd_One]

I do not think, I know that you are tying to jump on the discussion to regurgitate what you believe in without understanding the current civilian government and military of Pakistan.

Imran government is in fully control because both the army and civilian government wants the same things for Pakistan, hence new Pakistan.

why is that so hard to understand?

If Imran's government were to go against he prosperity and national security of Pakistan then i expect the military of Pakistan to take action against Imran Khan's government.

This is a self contradictory post. First you say that Imran is in full control and then you say if Imran goes against military then they will take over. The way I see it military is in control because it is a win-win situation for them. You may want to revisit your definition of "control".

BTW, what makes military the judge, jury, and executioner to determine that the civilian government went against the national security of Pakistan? Military generals have done worse things and yet none ever doubts their loyalty to the country.

 

[slipcatch]

You are wasting your time. Our friends here thoroughly believe in severe delusions.

1. Imran's government is in full control.
No! you are hoping that and believe most believe in what you have said. please stop making things up for whatever personal reason.

2. Under Imran's leadership, the military will be forced to purge all extremist elements.
No! Pakistan is in the state of constant proxy wars. No country in the world let go their proxies so easly, hasn't happened and wont happen.
3. Since PAF downed two IAF jets and captured an Indian pilot, India does not stand a chance in a full fledged war against Pakistan.

No! like i have said, you believe that most Pakistani believe that, stop projecting your thinking on other, get yourself looked at by a professional.

ridiculous

 

[slipcatch]

This is a self contradictory post. First you say that Imran is in full control and then you say if Imran goes against military then they will take over. The way I see it military is in control because it is a win-win situation for them. You may want to revisit your definition of "control".

BTW, what makes military the judge, jury, and executioner to determine that the civilian government went against the national security of Pakistan? Military generals have done worse things and yet none ever doubts their loyalty to the country.

please point out where I said that and then apologize.

Thank you

 

[Mamoon]

I do not think, I know that you are tying to jump on the discussion to regurgitate what you believe in without understanding the current civilian government and military of Pakistan.

Imran government is in fully control because both the army and civilian government wants the same things for Pakistan, hence new Pakistan.

why is that so hard to understand?

If Imran's government were to go against he prosperity and national security of Pakistan then i expect the military of Pakistan to take action against Imran Khan's government.

That is the problem. The COAS holds no power over the PM and it is not his place to decide whether the PM is going against the prosperity and national security of Pakistan.

The COAS’ job is to follow the orders of the President and the Minister of Defence subject to the approval of the PM.

However, practically, the President of Pakistan is a mini puppet and the Minister of Defense is a mega puppet, while the PM is safe as long as he obeys the COAS.

This has been Pakistan’s problem throughout its history which is why our democracy is weak and civilian supremacy is not respected.

 

[slipcatch]

[/b]

that is the problem. The coas holds no power over the pm and it is not his place to decide whether the pm is going against the prosperity and national security of pakistan.

The coas’ job is to follow the orders of the president and the minister of defence subject to the approval of the pm.

However, practically, the president of pakistan is a mini puppet and the minister of defense is a mega puppet, while the pm is safe as long as he obeys the coas.

This has been pakistan’s problem throughout its history which is why our democracy is weak and civilian supremacy is not respected.

no!

 

[ahsan17]

PPP leadership has a history of throwing Pakistan under the bus - usually based on lies - if it means they can show their opposition to the government and if they can win some votes due to that. The party is corrupt to the core and is one big reason why its getting more and more unpopular with each election.

 

[The_Odd_One]

please point out where I said that and then apologize.

Thank you

Imran government is in fully control because both the army and civilian government wants the same things for Pakistan, hence new Pakistan.

why is that so hard to understand?

If Imran's government were to go against he prosperity and national security of Pakistan then i expect the military of Pakistan to take action against Imran Khan's government.

Read the first and last lines.

 

[Muhammad10]

You are wasting your time. Our friends here thoroughly believe in severe delusions.

1. Imran's government is in full control.
2. Under Imran's leadership, the military will be forced to purge all extremist elements.
3. Since PAF downed two IAF jets and captured an Indian pilot, India does not stand a chance in a full fledged war against Pakistan.

Who is saying that? Are you implying that Bilawal Zardari is talking about a war?

 

[ahsan17]

You are getting confused.

“There are militants/terrorists under the care of our intelligence and we are protecting them from India”

That is a fact.

“India will not botch another mission if they decide to attack again”

That is an opinion.

I think what Bilawal said was something different. And what he is saying doesn't appear to be backed up by any proof or any sense. There is no need for Pakistan to do what he's claiming, because these guys are based inside Punjab and India will not be coming inside Punjab. On top of that, there is literally no proof to back this up. It's yet another case of PPP throwing Pakistan under the bus - based on lies as usual - to try to appear as a strong opposition and to try to appear strong in the eyes of some foreign states.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Most PPers in this thread are getting emotional and are falling into Bhutto's trap.

The fact is: NAB is about to bring back trillions of dollars stashed all around the planet to Pakistan. Hence the burning and this blabbering.

That's the only thing that matters/mattered and will matter. Soon, brothers, very soon. Both Zardari/Bhutto thief clans are going to jail, In Sha Allah.

IIRC, right before Shareef was about to get jailed he said same things and some people in that thread predicted what BB just said. Deja Vu.

Expected.

Big daddy hammer of Justice is coming for you Bilawal, jitna Dil mane shor Kar, bhaag beta bhaag, jis ko bulana hai bula le, per tu to jail zaroor jayega apne baap ke saath! �� In Sha Allah.

And I send 1000 and one lanats to this trash who stole Sindhi poors' money whilst Sindhis' children suffered for clean water and a loaf of bread ��

 

[slipcatch]

Read the first and last lines.

read it in context.

Imran government is in fully control because both the army and civilian government wants the same things for Pakistan, hence new Pakistan.

lol

 

[slipcatch]

Most PPers in this thread are getting emotional and are falling into Bhutto's trap.

The fact is: NAB is about to bring back trillions of dollars stashed all around the planet to Pakistan. Hence the burning and this blabbering.

That's the only thing that matters/mattered and will matter. Soon, brothers, very soon. Both Zardari/Bhutto thief clans are going to jail, In Sha Allah.

IIRC, right before Shareef was about to get jailed he said same things and some people in that thread predicted what BB just said. Deja Vu.

Expected.

Big daddy hammer of Justice is coming for you Bilawal, jitna Dil mane shor Kar, bhaag beta bhaag, jis ko bulana hai bula le, per tu to jail zaroor jayega apne baap ke saath! �� In Sha Allah.

And I send 1000 and one lanats to this trash who stole Sindhi poors' money whilst Sindhis' children suffered for clean water and a loaf of bread ��

No one is falling for it.

There are few odd one's, some wants to be Reham Khan, other just regurgitating without understanding that situation and current change in Pakistan's politics and some just desperate to protect their investment.

 

[Mamoon]

Except that's not what Bilawal said, his actual quote was:

“They have been taken into protective custody so that the Indian planes don’t blow them up,”

If you can prove that is the truth as you claimed then please do so in your next post and provide some verifying material.

Verifying material? Do you expect Pakistan’s media to publish the news that our military and intelligence have increased security for the militants that are on their payroll?

Or do you believe that there are no terrorist or millitant hideouts in Pakistan in the first place?

Or perhaps you missed our official statement on March 6 that Masood Azhar and his gang are in “hifazati tehveel”, a fancy term that simply means state protection.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Who is saying that? Are you implying that Bilawal Zardari is talking about a war?

A lot of posters have been acting very snobby since the event took place. The whole world knows Pakistan won the first round but it does not mean that Indian military can be taken lightly.

 

[Mamoon]

no!

Very insightful discourse. I think the democratic problems of Pakistan, and the excessive powers and influence of the armed forces that have plagued the country throughout its history have been solved with a firm no.

You are usually quite chirpy and aggressive with your replies, but this two letter response tells me that you are not very proud of your “If Imran's government were to go against he prosperity and national security of Pakistan then i expect the military of Pakistan to take action against Imran Khan's government.” slip and cannot find a way to justify your statement that you now clearly regret.

 

[The_Odd_One]

read it in context.



lol

Since you fail to understand your contradiction, let me make it as clear as possible for you.

As long as Imran and military are on the same page, everything will work well but as soon as military starts doubting Imran's loyalty to Pakistan, they will intervene and overthrow his government. What does that tell you about who is in control? Apologies but even a child should be able to understand it.

 

[ahsan17]

Verifying material? Do you expect Pakistan’s media to publish the news that our military and intelligence have increased security for the militants that are on their payroll?

Or do you believe that there are no terrorist or millitant hideouts in Pakistan in the first place?

Or perhaps you missed our official statement on March 6 that Masood Azhar and his gang are in “hifazati tehveel”, a fancy term that simply means state protection.

It's not an either-or situation. Both those statements can be false at the same time. There is no reason to hide terrorist from India since they are not going to come to Punjab.

 

[Mamoon]

I think what Bilawal said was something different. And what he is saying doesn't appear to be backed up by any proof or any sense. There is no need for Pakistan to do what he's claiming, because these guys are based inside Punjab and India will not be coming inside Punjab. On top of that, there is literally no proof to back this up. It's yet another case of PPP throwing Pakistan under the bus - based on lies as usual - to try to appear as a strong opposition and to try to appear strong in the eyes of some foreign states.

I think it is very obvious that Bilawal sees this as an opportunity to score political points, so from that perspective, it is right to criticize him.

For the same reasons, I have been critical of the Indian opposition who have left no stone unturned to attack Modi even if their statements have had a lot of truth in them.

Nevertheless, to state that Bilawal is lying or has no proof to back his allegation is simply denying that there are terrorist camps in Pakistan that have state and military protection.

If that is what you believe, then it is fine to say that Bilawal is making no sense.

However, if you do believe in the existence of these camps which Shah Mehmood Qureshi and Sheikh Rasheed alluded to with their Freudian slips,

while Musharraf has been quite open about it, and of course several Pakistanis of credible positions have written in great details about them who are now dubbed as traitors, then the question of whether Bilawal has proof or not doesn’t even arise.

 

[Mamoon]

Since you fail to understand your contradiction, let me make it as clear as possible for you.

As long as Imran and military are on the same page, everything will work well but as soon as military starts doubting Imran's loyalty to Pakistan, they will intervene and overthrow his government. What does that tell you about who is in control? Apologies but even a child should be able to understand it.

Yes, he really got himself into a tangle there. That post will be bookmarked for future reference.

 

[Mamoon]

It's not an either-or situation. Both those statements can be false at the same time. There is no reason to hide terrorist from India since they are not going to come to Punjab.

Firstly, I must say that I am quite impressed with your capacity to engage in a healthy debate without resorting to personal attacks and refusing to listen to the other person, something that seems to be beyond the capability of most posters here.

I completely agree that India will not come to Punjab. However, how certain are we that the madrassa in Balakot that the IAF failed to strike is not linked with JeM?

 

[ahsan17]

I think it is very obvious that Bilawal sees this as an opportunity to score political points, so from that perspective, it is right to criticize him.

For the same reasons, I have been critical of the Indian opposition who have left no stone unturned to attack Modi even if their statements have had a lot of truth in them.

Nevertheless, to state that Bilawal is lying or has no proof to back his allegation is simply denying that there are terrorist camps in Pakistan that have state and military protection.

If that is what you believe, then it is fine to say that Bilawal is making no sense.

However, if you do believe in the existence of these camps which Shah Mehmood Qureshi and Sheikh Rasheed alluded to with their Freudian slips,

while Musharraf has been quite open about it, and of course several Pakistanis of credible positions have written in great details about them who are now dubbed as traitors, then the question of whether Bilawal has proof or not doesn’t even arise.

I don't think anyone denies that these people exist in Pakistan. That doesn't make Bilawal's statements true, as mentioned in my previous post. All you are saying can be true at the same as what Bilawal is saying can be false. There is literally no reason to hide them Indian planes because India will not dare come that far into Punjab, and also risk civilian casualties if it tries to do some crap like this.

 

[Muhammad10]

A lot of posters have been acting very snobby since the event took place. The whole world knows Pakistan won the first round but it does not mean that Indian military can be taken lightly.

Yes, but Bilawal has said something very specific here, and he will find very few people taking his nonsense seriously given the recent events, where some trees were martyred along with a bird.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Yes, but Bilawal has said something very specific here, and he will find very few people taking his nonsense seriously given the recent events, where some trees were martyred along with a bird.

Bilawal is just exploiting the situation. I think it does not need to be said explicitly.

 

[ahsan17]

Firstly, I must say that I am quite impressed with your capacity to engage in a healthy debate without resorting to personal attacks and refusing to listen to the other person, something that seems to be beyond the capability of most posters here.

I completely agree that India will not come to Punjab. However, how certain are we that the madrassa in Balakot that the IAF failed to strike is not linked with JeM?

I am not sure, but according to neutral articles I was reading, even western intelligence officials are in agreement that place has been abandoned for a long time. So what is the purpose of targeting that place (even if they failed) if it has been abandoned for a long time? That to me makes no sense. What does make sense is that it goes on top of the laundry list pile of lies India state has peddled in recent years.

 

[Syed1]

You are wasting your time. Our friends here thoroughly believe in severe delusions.

1. Imran's government is in full control.
Seems like being a Noora you are having a hard time coping with the fact that Pak finally has a leader who works for the betterment of the country than his own pocket. Haye achay din chalay gaye.
2. Under Imran's leadership, the military will be forced to purge all extremist elements.
The military has already done an excellent job of killing or curbing all extremist elements in the country. In case you are too naive to notice the bombs blasts which used to be a daily occurance have become very very infrequent. When Khadim Rizvi was protesting during Noora government all you lot were claiming he is backed by army, but he is in jail for last 5 months where did army backing go now? Perhaps the Nooras are rueing that the army was able to catch the bull by the horns thus earning accolades from the aam awaam. A Noora government can only be successful if people start loving corrupt politicians and start hating patriotic army. Sadly for you lot that time will never come. So keep crying.
3. Since PAF downed two IAF jets and captured an Indian pilot, India does not stand a chance in a full fledged war against Pakistan.
Literally show me one poster who has said this, nobody can deny India's superiority in terms of numbers alone. We are happy that our armed forces are competent and know how to defend the country. Literally all are weapons systems are intended for defense rather than offense. God willing when time arrives they will not disappoint just like happened in Feb. The reason we developed nukes was because of India's massive armed forces and armoured divisions. Go read up on NASR and what are its operational capabilities

Cheers





You surely picked the right name for yourself on PP

 

[The_Odd_One]

Cheers





You surely picked the right name for yourself on PP

I actually support PTI and would have voted for them if I could because both PPP and PMLN have gotten enough chances and they failed to deliver. Just because I do not agree to the point that military is under Imran's control does not make me a PMLN supporter.

 

[Loralai]

[/b]

That is the problem. The COAS holds no power over the PM and it is not his place to decide whether the PM is going against the prosperity and national security of Pakistan.

The COAS’ job is to follow the orders of the President and the Minister of Defence subject to the approval of the PM.

However, practically, the President of Pakistan is a mini puppet and the Minister of Defense is a mega puppet, while the PM is safe as long as he obeys the COAS.

This has been Pakistan’s problem throughout its history which is why our democracy is weak and civilian supremacy is not respected.

What you have said is true but we cannot accept it.

 

[BlackThunder]

Well played to Pakistan. Got to give credit for how cleverly they have played this.

 

[Greenstorm]

Most PPers in this thread are getting emotional and are falling into Bhutto's trap.

The fact is: NAB is about to bring back trillions of dollars stashed all around the planet to Pakistan. Hence the burning and this blabbering.

That's the only thing that matters/mattered and will matter. Soon, brothers, very soon. Both Zardari/Bhutto thief clans are going to jail, In Sha Allah.

IIRC, right before Shareef was about to get jailed he said same things and some people in that thread predicted what BB just said. Deja Vu.

Expected.

Big daddy hammer of Justice is coming for you Bilawal, jitna Dil mane shor Kar, bhaag beta bhaag, jis ko bulana hai bula le, per tu to jail zaroor jayega apne baap ke saath! �� In Sha Allah.

And I send 1000 and one lanats to this **** who stole Sindhi poors' money whilst Sindhis' children suffered for clean water and a loaf of bread ��

This. Billu is trying to blackmail Imran and the establishment hoping for another NRO. Soon Zardari will be in jail.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No crackdown on terrorists in Pakistan, only critics punished: Bilawal Bhutto slams Pakistan PM Imran Khan | Click here: <a href="https://t.co/yp92yLXfmD">https://t.co/yp92yLXfmD</a> <a href="https://t.co/H9O1WGx9q9">pic.twitter.com/H9O1WGx9q9</a></p>— TIMES NOW (@TimesNow) <a href="https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/1108431454504136707?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 20, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[slipcatch]

Very insightful discourse. I think the democratic problems of Pakistan, and the excessive powers and influence of the armed forces that have plagued the country throughout its history have been solved with a firm no.

You are usually quite chirpy and aggressive with your replies, but this two letter response tells me that you are not very proud of your “If Imran's government were to go against he prosperity and national security of Pakistan then i expect the military of Pakistan to take action against Imran Khan's government.” slip and cannot find a way to justify your statement that you now clearly regret.

lol

I meant what I said.

I refuse to have discussion with you that does round about over a same topic.

What you do is repeat history and hypothesized/almost hope history to repeat.

What I am doing is living in present and my comment reflect the current political and military environment of Pakistan.

I will not indulge with you or anyone in hypothetical discussion, and there is no need to have that discussion until what you're hoping to happen, military take over.

But here is just to make it clear, The current civilian government and the Army of Pakistan are on the same page regarding foreign Policies, Economy, domestic policies and everything else, which is primarily to get rid of corrupt politician and bring back prosperity.

And I see absolutely nothing wrong in the civilian government of Pakistan, the army, the intelligent agency, the judiciary working and whatever other concern parties working together to achieve that, the only way moving forward for a better Pakistan.

Every thing else or almost every comment of yours is just waste of time, you haven't contributed to discussion other than repeated, History.

 

[slipcatch]

Since you fail to understand your contradiction, let me make it as clear as possible for you.

As long as Imran and military are on the same page, everything will work well but as soon as military starts doubting Imran's loyalty to Pakistan, they will intervene and overthrow his government. What does that tell you about who is in control? Apologies but even a child should be able to understand it.

Lets try this again.

Until that happen then it would be a problem, it hasn't happen yet, and it is highly unlikely that it will happen in next 5 years.

Anyone who isn't loyal to Pakistan should not be a PM of Pakistan

But lets be honest, IK is more loyal to Pakistan than you and I will ever be.

It isn't that difficult to understand, is it, i am sure even a child understand the concept of a loyalty.

 

[Bewal Express]

This. Billu is trying to blackmail Imran and the establishment hoping for another NRO. Soon Zardari will be in jail.

The PPP is getting more and more desperate by the day as they see jail coming. Today Billo tried to blackmail the state to get the PPP leadership a free pass for their billion dollar theft.

 

[Sirris]

For the next surgical strike Indian military leadership should first consult with the tactical genius, Bilwal Zardari. Perhaps then they would be wise enough to directly attack the unsuspecting terrorist leaders, instead of attacking trees first and in the process giving ISI and terrorist leaders a heads up and time to go hiding.

On a serious note now that the leaders of banned organizations have finally been arrested due to Pakistani leader's independent decisions "without any sort of international pressure" we should be expecting them to face an independent court soon and being handed their veridcts. We should also be expecting to see Markaz Usman-o-Ali in Bahawalpur to be closed and destroyed as proof of our honest determination and all other institutions affiliated with banned organizations.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Verifying material? Do you expect Pakistan’s media to publish the news that our military and intelligence have increased security for the militants that are on their payroll?

Or do you believe that there are no terrorist or millitant hideouts in Pakistan in the first place?

Or perhaps you missed our official statement on March 6 that Masood Azhar and his gang are in “hifazati tehveel”, a fancy term that simply means state protection.

“They have been taken into protective custody so that the Indian planes don’t blow them up,”


That is what Bilawal said. You claim he was speaking the truth, when the fact is the only thing they blew up were some trees so clearly he wasn't telling the truth unless you are desperate to believe Indian propaganda, which even Indian allies haven't swallowed.

That is only one sentence, stop dancing round it and address it in full including the last part which I underlined for you to make it simple.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Pakistan politicians are pioneers of whataboutism theory.

Bilawal instead of answering the question on corruption and money laundering evidences starts talking about terrorism?!?! There is a certain time and place (forum) to mention things pertaining to those incidents, this was definitely not it. Having said that one of the posters also suffers as the same problem as Bilawal who would go into a thread and post random gibberish which has nothing to do with thread topic.

Now coming onto Bilawal's allegations. Well there are two very critical arguments that is perhaps a fact and people should understand it before reading much into Bilawal's statement.
1. Pakistan is not Syria/Iraq/Libya etc. Pakistan is nuclear armed country (big achievement) who holds immense capabilities to defend its homeland against external threats. People here clearly seem to undermine Pakistan's strength and believe its a walk in park scenario when clearly its not. One could even argue its the strongest force amongst all the Muslim world.
2. India is not US. India do not have the economic or arms muscle to push its military and cause invasion into any country let alone Pakistan. Hell India do not even have enough muscle to push its armies into Syria/Iraq/etc like what US did. This delusion of India being a mega power in the world and bully other countries is just a myth.

Now in light of the "facts" above do you really think Bilawal's statement make any sense. If you still think Bilawal is speaking completely honestly then its actually quite a big black spot on US for not eliminating these terrorists as Pakistan was as accessible as Syria or Afghanistan. Another black spot for India for not eliminating these organisations after Mumbai attacks, as they believe they could invade Pakistan at any point in time, why wait for more instances to happen just eradicate it right.

Bottomline is India is responsible for its own internal security and they have failed at that fullstop. Pakistan blamed Afghanistan for sending over bombers so Pakistan sealed its border with Afghanistan rather than uninvitingly dropped bombs in there. India's borders should be airtight and anything that goes through their surveillance is on them and not on anyone else.

 

[Waseem]

Anyone who thinks Bilawal is worried about banned outfits at a time when his father is in trouble in fake accounts scam is absolutely delusional, biased and naive. While there is no doubt Bilawal's stance has always been same, whole reason he is issuing statements now is 100% to deflect attention from his father's cases and blackmailing tactic.
He is coming across as corrupt and selfish in this whole episode, i always gave him benefit of doubt since he never defended his father or his corruption before, he is openly calling him innocent and victim of conspiracy now and if even Zardari is an innocent angel after Nawaz Sharif then god help Pakistan and their blind supporters should be ashamed a bit.

 

[CricVet]

Proven

 

[RickyG]

Spoke the truth, and we are throwing a tantrum and calling him anti-Pakistan. Typical.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You are what is wrong with Pakistan. For 40 years, you complain about the lack of growth and change etc.

The moment someone comes in and does something differently, you have a problem with him.

 

[Bilal_103]

All these people defending PPP and pmln conveniently forget the fact that they are responsible for destroying Pakistan...

 

[Mamoon]

lol

I meant what I said.

I refuse to have discussion with you that does round about over a same topic.

What you do is repeat history and hypothesized/almost hope history to repeat.

What I am doing is living in present and my comment reflect the current political and military environment of Pakistan.

I will not indulge with you or anyone in hypothetical discussion, and there is no need to have that discussion until what you're hoping to happen, military take over.

But here is just to make it clear, The current civilian government and the Army of Pakistan are on the same page regarding foreign Policies, Economy, domestic policies and everything else, which is primarily to get rid of corrupt politician and bring back prosperity.

And I see absolutely nothing wrong in the civilian government of Pakistan, the army, the intelligent agency, the judiciary working and whatever other concern parties working together to achieve that, the only way moving forward for a better Pakistan.

Every thing else or almost every comment of yours is just waste of time, you haven't contributed to discussion other than repeated, History.

You refuse to have a discussion because you are clearly struggling to cover your slip up, and now that you have dug yourself a hole, you have let yourself with no option but to keep digging. This is a result of the fact that you write too much without listening to the other person.

Writing in italics will not help you wiggle your way out of this one. You are absolutely write that there is nothing wrong to see the military, civilian government and the judiciary work on the same page, but you also explicitly admitted the following, which I will put in bold this time with a bigger font:

"If Imran's government were to go against he prosperity and national security of Pakistan then i expect the military of Pakistan to take action against Imran Khan's government.”

Instead of explaining this statement that has left you backed in a corner, you are simply beating around the bush. Therefore, I will ask you again, and perhaps for the final time because I don't wish to embarrass you further.

How is the job of the military to determine and decide whether the PM is going against the prosperity and national security of Pakistan?

The military of Pakistan is a government institution, answerable to the Minister of Defence, the President and the Prime Minister.

What authority do they have to take action against the government, and by what right do they determine that whether a PM is working against the prosperity and national security of Pakistan or not?

By making this statement, you have simply confirmed what we all knew - Imran Khan or any other PM holds no real power in the country and is simply a puppet of the military. As long as he (and Nawaz and Benazir before him) are/were in sync with them, there was no problem. However, the moment he starts to defy them (or Nawaz and Benazir did before them), the military started to work against the government.

Thank you for finally spilling out the truth which you tried very hard to deny for so long.

 

[Mamoon]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You are what is wrong with Pakistan. For 40 years, you complain about the lack of growth and change etc.

The moment someone comes in and does something differently, you have a problem with him.

The problem is that nothing is being done differently. History is simply repeating itself - Imran has fallen into the same trap as Nawaz and Benazir before him, who were both backed and supported by the military until they were doing as they were told. The moment they started to defy the "orders" of the COAS, their corruption became unpardonable and they were thrown out.

Your fellow PTI supporter stated the following in post 74:

"If Imran's government were to go against he prosperity and national security of Pakistan then i expect the military of Pakistan to take action against Imran Khan's government.”

Care to explain this? Because he has cowered.

 

[Mamoon]

“They have been taken into protective custody so that the Indian planes don’t blow them up,”


That is what Bilawal said. You claim he was speaking the truth, when the fact is the only thing they blew up were some trees so clearly he wasn't telling the truth unless you are desperate to believe Indian propaganda, which even Indian allies haven't swallowed.

That is only one sentence, stop dancing round it and address it in full including the last part which I underlined for you to make it simple.

I am not sure what the confusion is. There is no doubt that IAF botched their mission and the Indian government/media have lied about killing 300 terrorists. As has been confirmed by independent sources as well as satellite images, they clearly missed the target and the building is still intact. They had nothing to show for their mission except a few trees and a dead crow.

However, this does not mean that if India will botch another attack in the future. Pakistan is well-aware of India's might and that is why they have taken Masood Azhar and the likes in "hifazati tehveel". This was Pakistan's official statement on March 6, so I am not sure why people are calling Bilawal a traitor for stating an obvious fact.

Apart from Pakistan and the countries who have invested in Pakistan, the world is in agreement that there are terrorist hideouts in Pakistan who have the support of the military. Now if Pakistan were to allow Indian to destroy any of these camps, it will simply expose Pakistan's narrative and open a can of worms. As a result, we are left with no choice but to take them under state protection for now, and this is not the first time that this has happened.

 

[Mamoon]

I am not sure, but according to neutral articles I was reading, even western intelligence officials are in agreement that place has been abandoned for a long time. So what is the purpose of targeting that place (even if they failed) if it has been abandoned for a long time? That to me makes no sense. What does make sense is that it goes on top of the laundry list pile of lies India state has peddled in recent years.

The official Indian statement that they have killed 300 terrorists is obviously a blatant lie, and it has been confirmed by various independent sources.

However, we don't know for sure if that particular madrassa had any links with JeM. It is quite possible that the Pakistani intelligence suspected that India would launch an attack on the JeM camp in Balakot via LOC, and were not only able to relocate JeM but were also able to intercept the IAF jets and force them back into their airspace.

Or it could also be the case that the madrassa and had no links with terrorism and India not only botched their mission but they also chose the wrong target. There are a word of possibilities here and we will never find the truth. India's lies have been exposed, but we are also equally gifted at the art of lying through our teeth.

The story behind this particular madrassa, the mystery of second Indian pilot that we shot down and why Asif Ghafoor had to change his statement as well as whether we shot an SU-30 or not are some of the unexplained events that have been gobbled up with the hope that no one will bring them up.

 

[Mamoon]

Anyone who doesn't buy into PTI/establishment's narrative is a traitor and anti-Pakistan. To be qualified as a patriot in this country, you have to be 100% convinced with what they say and cannot question or doubt anything.

This is the first litmus test of fascism and they have failed.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am not sure what the confusion is. There is no doubt that IAF botched their mission and the Indian government/media have lied about killing 300 terrorists. As has been confirmed by independent sources as well as satellite images, they clearly missed the target and the building is still intact. They had nothing to show for their mission except a few trees and a dead crow.

However, this does not mean that if India will botch another attack in the future. Pakistan is well-aware of India's might and that is why they have taken Masood Azhar and the likes in "hifazati tehveel". This was Pakistan's official statement on March 6, so I am not sure why people are calling Bilawal a traitor for stating an obvious fact.

Apart from Pakistan and the countries who have invested in Pakistan, the world is in agreement that there are terrorist hideouts in Pakistan who have the support of the military. Now if Pakistan were to allow Indian to destroy any of these camps, it will simply expose Pakistan's narrative and open a can of worms. As a result, we are left with no choice but to take them under state protection for now, and this is not the first time that this has happened.

Bilawal hasn't stated any obvious facts, he is making accusations, there is a difference. If anything the fact that Indian airforce hit a wasteland and bombed some trees, it would suggest that these groups had already been rounded up by Imran Khan's administration and dealt with. How about those for some facts?

 

[Mamoon]

Bilawal hasn't stated any obvious facts, he is making accusations, there is a difference. If anything the fact that Indian airforce hit a wasteland and bombed some trees, it would suggest that these groups had already been rounded up by Imran Khan's administration and dealt with. How about those for some facts?

It maybe an accusation for those who live in a state of perpetual denial and try to absolve Pakistan of any blame. Yes it is a possibility that the JeM was relocated before the Indian attack, but "dealt with" is a strong word. If we had any intention of dealing with these types of groups, they would not have flourished in the first place.

Nothing has happened to JeM and nothing will happen to it in the future. People like Masood Azhar, Hafiz Saeed etc. will continue to live and thrive in Pakistan without a problem, while our Foreign Minister will continue to state to the international media that they are "unwell" and unable to leave their homes.

 

[Syed1]

Anyone who doesn't buy into PTI/establishment's narrative is a traitor and anti-Pakistan. To be qualified as a patriot in this country, you have to be 100% convinced with what they say and cannot question or doubt anything.

This is the first litmus test of fascism and they have failed.

However, those who kiss the feet of corrupt politicians because the corruption benefits them have no right to say what is right or wrong for Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It maybe an accusation for those who live in a state of perpetual denial and try to absolve Pakistan of any blame. Yes it is a possibility that the JeM was relocated before the Indian attack, but "dealt with" is a strong word. If we had any intention of dealing with these types of groups, they would not have flourished in the first place.

Nothing has happened to JeM and nothing will happen to it in the future. People like Masood Azhar, Hafiz Saeed etc. will continue to live and thrive in Pakistan without a problem, while our Foreign Minister will continue to state to the international media that they are "unwell" and unable to leave their homes.

These terror groups flourished under the administration of Bilawal's father and the PPP, then were encouraged and cultivated by the equally corrupt Nawaz Sharif. These are the facts. We should be thankful that Imran Khan has taken a firm hand and cleaned out the terror camps so that India only ended up hitting wasteland and a few trees. But instead we have Billoo's fan club moaning that there wasn't any terrorists left for India to kill in their illegal and failed adventure.

 

[Realromeo]

Can't expect Indians to be made when terrorists are being protected like this. First I thought Pak military had very little control of their country, but seems like PAK military has more power in their country than Indian military in ours.

 

[slipcatch]

You refuse to have a discussion because you are clearly struggling to cover your slip up, and now that you have dug yourself a hole, you have let yourself with no option but to keep digging. This is a result of the fact that you write too much without listening to the other person.

Writing in italics will not help you wiggle your way out of this one. You are absolutely write that there is nothing wrong to see the military, civilian government and the judiciary work on the same page, but you also explicitly admitted the following, which I will put in bold this time with a bigger font:

"If Imran's government were to go against he prosperity and national security of Pakistan then i expect the military of Pakistan to take action against Imran Khan's government.”

Instead of explaining this statement that has left you backed in a corner, you are simply beating around the bush. Therefore, I will ask you again, and perhaps for the final time because I don't wish to embarrass you further.

How is the job of the military to determine and decide whether the PM is going against the prosperity and national security of Pakistan?

The military of Pakistan is a government institution, answerable to the Minister of Defence, the President and the Prime Minister.

What authority do they have to take action against the government, and by what right do they determine that whether a PM is working against the prosperity and national security of Pakistan or not?

By making this statement, you have simply confirmed what we all knew - Imran Khan or any other PM holds no real power in the country and is simply a puppet of the military. As long as he (and Nawaz and Benazir before him) are/were in sync with them, there was no problem. However, the moment he starts to defy them (or Nawaz and Benazir did before them), the military started to work against the government.

Thank you for finally spilling out the truth which you tried very hard to deny for so long.

Dude, I wrote in elementary English, “I meant what I said”.

How difficult is that for someone to understand who claim to put himself on self proclaimed pedasstel of I’m better than any other Pakistani?

Again, I stick by 100% in what I have said because I don’t look at things related to Pakistan from one angle.

 

[slipcatch]

Can't expect Indians to be made when terrorists are being protected like this. First I thought Pak military had very little control of their country, but seems like PAK military has more power in their country than Indian military in ours.

Arrested.

Don’t be naive, India isn’t capable of killing with air strike anyone in any country.

 

[slipcatch]

Anyone who doesn't buy into PTI/establishment's narrative is a traitor and anti-Pakistan. To be qualified as a patriot in this country, you have to be 100% convinced with what they say and cannot question or doubt anything.

This is the first litmus test of fascism and they have failed.

Lol, you aren’t traitor.

You can’t be.

All you do is hypothesized and hope that it is true without any evidence.

Most of the time you repeat history to claim it to be true.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Lets try this again.

Until that happen then it would be a problem, it hasn't happen yet, and it is highly unlikely that it will happen in next 5 years.

Anyone who isn't loyal to Pakistan should not be a PM of Pakistan

But lets be honest, IK is more loyal to Pakistan than you and I will ever be.

It isn't that difficult to understand, is it, i am sure even a child understand the concept of a loyalty.

Nice try changing the goalpost by bringing Imran's loyalty to Pakistan into this. You made a claim that Imran is in full control then you contradicted yourself by saying that if the army "thinks" that he is no longer loyal to Pakistan, they will take over. The only logical interpretation is that army controls Imran's government. As soon as he loses their blessing, he will be sent home.

BTW, it is not army's job to hand out certificates of loyalty to the citizens of Pakistan, neither does the constitution give them any right to poke their nose in these matters.

 

[The_Odd_One]

These terror groups flourished under the administration of Bilawal's father and the PPP, then were encouraged and cultivated by the equally corrupt Nawaz Sharif. These are the facts. We should be thankful that Imran Khan has taken a firm hand and cleaned out the terror camps so that India only ended up hitting wasteland and a few trees. But instead we have Billoo's fan club moaning that there wasn't any terrorists left for India to kill in their illegal and failed adventure.

Civilian government has no say in these matters, whether the PM is Imran or Nawaz or Gilani. I will not pass any sweeping statements like Imran has cleaned out the terror camps in less than a month which is highly unrealistic.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Nice try changing the goalpost by bringing Imran's loyalty to Pakistan into this. You made a claim that Imran is in full control then you contradicted yourself by saying that if the army "thinks" that he is no longer loyal to Pakistan, they will take over. The only logical interpretation is that army controls Imran's government. As soon as he loses their blessing, he will be sent home.

BTW, it is not army's job to hand out certificates of loyalty to the citizens of Pakistan, neither does the constitution give them any right to poke their nose in these matters.

Even Britain has contingency plans to impose martial law in certain circumstances, no country would allow a traitor to finish their term if that is what they were deemed to be. In the UK though, we have an educated public and longstanding election protocols which ensure that no corrupt scoundrel could find their way to power easily. I wish I could say the same for Pakistan, but nepotism and puppet leaders abound in the nation's short history.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Civilian government has no say in these matters, whether the PM is Imran or Nawaz or Gilani. I will not pass any sweeping statements like Imran has cleaned out the terror camps in less than a month which is highly unrealistic.

If you can pass sweeping statements like Imran Khan hid the terrorists so India couldn't bomb them, then expect an equal and more logical reply.

 

[Bewal Express]

Nice try changing the goalpost by bringing Imran's loyalty to Pakistan into this. You made a claim that Imran is in full control then you contradicted yourself by saying that if the army "thinks" that he is no longer loyal to Pakistan, they will take over. The only logical interpretation is that army controls Imran's government. As soon as he loses their blessing, he will be sent home.

BTW, it is not army's job to hand out certificates of loyalty to the citizens of Pakistan, neither does the constitution give them any right to poke their nose in these matters.

If the army think that IK or whoever is not loyal to PK then they have every right to take over. It would be more bizzare if they didn't.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Even Britain has contingency plans to impose martial law in certain circumstances, no country would allow a traitor to finish their term if that is what they were deemed to be. In the UK though, we have an educated public and longstanding election protocols which ensure that no corrupt scoundrel could find their way to power easily. I wish I could say the same for Pakistan, but nepotism and puppet leaders abound in the nation's short history.

Pretty ironic considering that most of the governments came into power due to army's blessing only. As soon as they went against army, their corruption surfaced. PMLQ is the prime example of one such government. Don't blame it on lack of education.

 

[The_Odd_One]

If you can pass sweeping statements like Imran Khan hid the terrorists so India couldn't bomb them, then expect an equal and more logical reply.

I did not even make this statement. I said what Bilwal said might be true because establishment has always protected these elements. Imran is not even relevant in this matter (or any other PM whether from PTI or PPP or PMLN) because he knows it is not his place to make such decisions.

 

[The_Odd_One]

If the army think that IK or whoever is not loyal to PK then they have every right to take over. It would be more bizzare if they didn't.

Constitution gives them no such right. It is very sad to see people defending illegal acts of military. There is a reason military coup is not supported by most countries because it is a violation of people's mandate.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pretty ironic considering that most of the governments came into power due to army's blessing only. As soon as they went against army, their corruption surfaced. PMLQ is the prime example of one such government. Don't blame it on lack of education.

But no one has denied that Pakistan military has interfered too much in the past, we had long spells of martial law for much of Pakistan's life span. That was the whole reason why everyone pins more faith in Imran Khan, we neutrals can see he is a man of principle and will be the ideal PM to continue the good work since the military has taken a back seat in the past couple of decades. Just as we should never run away from Pakistan's history and acknowledge the military's role, neither should we fail to credit them when there is progress and civilian writ is established.

 

[Asim_khan]

I did not even make this statement. I said what Bilwal said might be true because establishment has always protected these elements. Imran is not even relevant in this matter (or any other PM whether from PTI or PPP or PMLN) because he knows it is not his place to make such decisions.

He literally freed the pilot, are you saying the army put him upto it?

When have the Pak army or any govt been this magnanimous? Cos I can show you plenty of times Imran Khan has.

Face it, there's literally no evidence that he's under the Armed force's thumb. Unlike previous corrupt rulers we've had.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I did not even make this statement. I said what Bilwal said might be true because establishment has always protected these elements. Imran is not even relevant in this matter (or any other PM whether from PTI or PPP or PMLN) because he knows it is not his place to make such decisions.

When I said you, of course I was referring to Bilawal and those who tried to use his words to plant a false narrative. Don't criticise others for sweeping statements while endorsing patently false ones peddled by someone who suits your agenda.

 

[The_Odd_One]

He literally freed the pilot, are you saying the army put him upto it?

When have the Pak army or any govt been this magnanimous? Cos I can show you plenty of times Imran Khan has.

Face it, there's literally no evidence that he's under the Armed force's thumb. Unlike previous corrupt rulers we've had.

Only recently when they did not shoot down Indian planes entering Pakistan and dropping a payload. There are only two possible explanations. Either, PAF is extremely incompetent that they were too late to react or they made a decision to let indian planes escape. Which explanation do you buy? If the second one, then do you think they were on phone waiting for Imran's order?

 

[slipcatch]

I do not think, I know that you are tying to jump on the discussion to regurgitate what you believe in without understanding the current civilian government and military of Pakistan.

Imran government is in fully control because both the army and civilian government wants the same things for Pakistan, hence new Pakistan.

why is that so hard to understand?

If Imran's government were to go against he prosperity and national security of Pakistan then i expect the military of Pakistan to take action against Imran Khan's government.

Lets try this again.

Until that happen then it would be a problem, it hasn't happen yet, and it is highly unlikely that it will happen in next 5 years.

Anyone who isn't loyal to Pakistan should not be a PM of Pakistan

But lets be honest, IK is more loyal to Pakistan than you and I will ever be.

It isn't that difficult to understand, is it, i am sure even a child understand the concept of a loyalty.

Nice try changing the goalpost by bringing Imran's loyalty to Pakistan into this. You made a claim that Imran is in full control then you contradicted yourself by saying that if the army "thinks" that he is no longer loyal to Pakistan, they will take over. The only logical interpretation is that army controls Imran's government. As soon as he loses their blessing, he will be sent home.

BTW, it is not army's job to hand out certificates of loyalty to the citizens of Pakistan, neither does the constitution give them any right to poke their nose in these matters.

Try again.

And it isn't your job to give out certificate to Imran Khan either.

Majority of Pakistanis are happy with Imran Khan and Army of tackling current situation in Pakistan.

The only logical interpretation is that army controls Imran's government. As soon as he loses their blessing, he will be sent home.

until that happen then you are talking out of your rear end. It hasn't happen yet and it probably will never happen.

If that happen then you can cry foul until then you sound like a teenage who is always hoping for the worse by repeating what had happened to her in other party.

For democracy to be strengthen in Pakistan and for Pakistan to become prosperous then this is the only route.

You can't have it without the help of Army and with corrupt politicians like PML-N, PPP, and MQM.

Understand Pakistan and understand what Pakistan is required to have stronger democracy and to become a prosperous nation, and it is very imperative to understand the Geo-Politics.

Stop asking me naive questions .

 

[Bewal Express]

Constitution gives them no such right. It is very sad to see people defending illegal acts of military. There is a reason military coup is not supported by most countries because it is a violation of people's mandate.

So you would be happy for Billo/ NS to be PM when there loyalties lie with other countries?

 

[slipcatch]

Only recently when they did not shoot down Indian planes entering Pakistan and dropping a payload. There are only two possible explanations. Either, PAF is extremely incompetent that they were too late to react or they made a decision to let indian planes escape. Which explanation do you buy? If the second one, then do you think they were on phone waiting for Imran's order?

seriously, in which world do you live? do you talk to stars?

I would go in to how military works when they are attacked and what is the procedure but i feel like you are too immature for that.

otherwise why would any one make such statement.

lol

 

[The_Odd_One]

But no one has denied that Pakistan military has interfered too much in the past, we had long spells of martial law for much of Pakistan's life span. That was the whole reason why everyone pins more faith in Imran Khan, we neutrals can see he is a man of principle and will be the ideal PM to continue the good work since the military has taken a back seat in the past couple of decades. Just as we should never run away from Pakistan's history and acknowledge the military's role, neither should we fail to credit them when there is progress and civilian writ is established.

Man of principle who has people like Sheikh Rasheed as his collation partner? Imran is currently the best from the worst that's the only thing I can say for him considering how he sold his principles to win elections. I will be very happy if a civilian writ is established but it is too good to happen so soon.

 

[Asim_khan]

Only recently when they did not shoot down Indian planes entering Pakistan and dropping a payload. There are only two possible explanations. Either, PAF is extremely incompetent that they were too late to react or they made a decision to let indian planes escape. Which explanation do you buy? If the second one, then do you think they were on phone waiting for Imran's order?

I'll humour you.

Well if it's the first explanation then they're a little less incompetent than the IAF who managed to lose a couple of pilots when Pakistan did same. S

And If it's the second, that would mean the pilots were on a call to Bajwa previous to contacting IK, all in the dead of night and 3am.

Either way, I see why you'd believe what Bilawal said

 

[The_Odd_One]

seriously, in which world do you live? do you talk to stars?

I would go in to how military works when they are attacked and what is the procedure but i feel like you are too immature for that.

otherwise why would any one make such statement.

lol

Your lack of understanding of the context is appalling. I was pointing to the "magnanimous" nature of the military that it was their decision to not engage in a conflict with India and hence, they let the Indian jets go. There is no reason to credit only Imran for the release of Abhinandan. It was fully supported by the military.

 

[Asim_khan]

Man of principle who has people like Sheikh Rasheed as his collation partner? Imran is currently the best from the worst that's the only thing I can say for him considering how he sold his principles to win elections. I will be very happy if a civilian writ is established but it is too good to happen so soon.

Best of a bad bunch, yet I'll choose to believe someone I've just said is worse than Imran Khan. Good work.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I'll humour you.

Well if it's the first explanation then they're a little less incompetent than the IAF who managed to lose a couple of pilots when Pakistan did same. S

And If it's the second, that would mean the pilots were on a call to Bajwa previous to contacting IK, all in the dead of night and 3am.

Either way, I see why you'd believe what Bilawal said

I do not see how it strengthens your argument. It only shows that it was indeed a magnanimous decision by the military to not engage in any conflict. Same is true for Abhinandan's release which was not just Imran's decision.

 

[slipcatch]

Your lack of understanding of the context is appalling. I was pointing to the "magnanimous" nature of the military that it was their decision to not engage in a conflict with India and hence, they let the Indian jets go. There is no reason to credit only Imran for the release of Abhinandan. It was fully supported by the military.

Lol

How long were Indian jets in Pakistan ?

You can’t be this immature ?

 

[Asim_khan]

Your lack of understanding of the context is appalling. I was pointing to the "magnanimous" nature of the military that it was their decision to not engage in a conflict with India and hence, they let the Indian jets go. There is no reason to credit only Imran for the release of Abhinandan. It was fully supported by the military.

And your comparison was as laughable as the rest of your reasoning. So the pilot was on a call to Bajwa at 3am in the morning, chasing down the IAF, before the decision was made no to shoot it down?

 

[slipcatch]

Your lack of understanding of the context is appalling. I was pointing to the "magnanimous" nature of the military that it was their decision to not engage in a conflict with India and hence, they let the Indian jets go. There is no reason to credit only Imran for the release of Abhinandan. It was fully supported by the military.

Your lack of understanding how military operation works shows.

This guy lol

 

[Asim_khan]

I do not see how it strengthens your argument. It only shows that it was indeed a magnanimous decision by the military to not engage in any conflict. Same is true for Abhinandan's release which was not just Imran's decision.

So you agree that Bajwa was on the call at 3am with the PAF pilot, whilst he's tracking Indian fighter jets and told him not to fire because he's as magnanimous as Imran Khan?

 

[The_Odd_One]

Lol

How long were Indian jets in Pakistan ?

You can’t be this immature ?

Long enough to enter, drop a payload and run away.

 

[slipcatch]

Long enough to enter, drop a payload and run away.

Hahahahaha okay buddy.

Stop quoting me, you seem desparate.

Try someone else.

 

[The_Odd_One]

And your comparison was as laughable as the rest of your reasoning. So the pilot was on a call to Bajwa at 3am in the morning, chasing down the IAF, before the decision was made no to shoot it down?

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said he was on call with Bajwa. That's not how any organization works. You go to your immediate boss and not the biggest boss in the company. When I say military, I mean the entire institution and not just COAS. Military as a whole does not want any conflict with India.