The_Odd_One
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2015
- Runs
- 8,950
Please explain to me how military works rather resorting to posting useless content that will be cleaned up by admins.
-
Contact the PP Team
Banned outfit leaders were taken into custody to ‘protect’ them from Indian planes: Bilawal
- Thread starter Abdullah719
- Start date
Please explain to me how military works rather resorting to posting useless content that will be cleaned up by admins.
Hahahahaha
What are you saying ?
Obviously military doesn’t everyone knows that.
Hahahahaha
The_Odd_One
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2015
- Runs
- 8,950
Amazing post full of valuable insight. It was fully expected because you have run out of valid arguments. I have give a perfectly reasonable answer to your question and you came back with a post that starts with hahahaha.
Asim_khan
Local Club Regular
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2011
- Runs
- 1,338
Does 'as a whole' include the guy who shot down Abhinandan, cos that seemed kinda confrontational
Because that’s all I can do after suggesting that Pakistan Air Force should have called IK at 3 am before taking action and disregarding the protocol, especially in a conflict that involve Indian and Pakistan, lol.
Big LOL
The_Odd_One
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2015
- Runs
- 8,950
Are you suggesting that military wants a conflict with India but Imran is stopping them from starting a war? Even [MENTION=147221]slipcatch[/MENTION] will not go this overboard to praise Imran.
One more fact.
Not just military but the civilian government and nor the citizen Pakistan want conflict with India.
Democracy
Lol
You can’t comprehend, can you ?
Syed1
ODI Captain
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2015
- Runs
- 46,041
- Post of the Week
- 3
The_Odd_One
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2015
- Runs
- 8,950
Yes, Abhinandan was from Russia that military had no role in his release.
The_Odd_One
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2015
- Runs
- 8,950
Tell this to your buddy [MENTION=98507]Asim_khan[/MENTION] who was pointing to the confrontational act of the military.
Dude, off course they did.
Military insight are taken into account by any responsible PM of the country when they are at war.
Because Pakistan did not want conflict with India, including the people of Pakistan and PM of Pakistan.
Are you suggesting that IK should have gone to war against the will of people of Pakistan and military?
Like I’ve said you have no knowledge of anything other then regurgitating crap.
I don’t know him, stop assuming.
But It is safe to assume you don’t know what you’re taking about.
The_Odd_One
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2015
- Runs
- 8,950
As many of the posters here did not understand the context of my post, I am writing a single post to answer their questions collectively rather than replying to each individual anymore.
Pakistan's military and specifically the army is the strongest and the most influential institution in the country. No civilian government has ever been able to establish control over it. The army has multiple times in the past taken decisions without consulting the civilian government. Kargil invasion is the prime example of it. A lot of people are under the impression that Imran Khan, who has not been the prime minister for even an year, has been able to force the army to act under his subordination. The belief is completely false - it may be a new Pakistan under new government but it is not a new army. When Indian jets entered Pakistan, the PAF did not retaliate. Incompetence or no-conflict policy are the only two possible explanations. DG ISPR went for the latter. Military has its own protocols and procedures so they will not consult the government in these matters which is understandable but it also makes one thing very clear that at this moment, Pakistan army does not want to engage in any conflict with India. This is something that Imran's government wants too. Similarly, when Abhinandan was released, it was not just Imran's decision, the army was fully behind it. This should not be interpreted as Imran's control over the military. Just because they are on the same page at this moment does not mean that the government has established its writ over them.
Nawaz Sharif was an army puppet until 1998. He became prime minister with more than 70% mandate. He was a very popular leader at that time with yellow cab and "karz utaro mulk sanwaro" schemes. His right wing views also gave him the support of religious parties. He made one fatal mistake which was going against the army and embarrassing Gen. Musharraf which costed him his rule. This shows how powerful the army has always been in the country. Another example is the PMLQ government which under Musharraf emerged as kings party and won the elections. It did not survive Musharraf's departure. Long story short, Pakistan army is a beast which no civilian government has ever been able to tame. The expectation that a new government will take the bull by the horn is unrealistic. It may need at least two more decades of democracy before this actually happens.
Similarly, the extremist elements which have been always supported by the establishment will not disappear overnight. Though, Bilawal was exploiting the situation, there is some truth in his statement. It is further backed by the fact that many extremists like Hafiz Saeed roam freely in Pakistan. OBL was found in Pakistan a few miles away from an army base. There is enough evidence to suggest that the military has not been completely sincere in their cleanup effort. No wonder, from India to US, all countries raise the same concern. It took a strong army general like Musharraf to carry out an extremely unpopular Lal masjid like operation and only army itself is capable of conducting a similar operation against these long supported extremists. Imran's government may have full control over how to run the country's economy but when it comes to defence, the army is always the decision maker and will remain so for unforeseeable future.
Pakistan's military and specifically the army is the strongest and the most influential institution in the country. No civilian government has ever been able to establish control over it. The army has multiple times in the past taken decisions without consulting the civilian government. Kargil invasion is the prime example of it. A lot of people are under the impression that Imran Khan, who has not been the prime minister for even an year, has been able to force the army to act under his subordination. The belief is completely false - it may be a new Pakistan under new government but it is not a new army. When Indian jets entered Pakistan, the PAF did not retaliate. Incompetence or no-conflict policy are the only two possible explanations. DG ISPR went for the latter. Military has its own protocols and procedures so they will not consult the government in these matters which is understandable but it also makes one thing very clear that at this moment, Pakistan army does not want to engage in any conflict with India. This is something that Imran's government wants too. Similarly, when Abhinandan was released, it was not just Imran's decision, the army was fully behind it. This should not be interpreted as Imran's control over the military. Just because they are on the same page at this moment does not mean that the government has established its writ over them.
Nawaz Sharif was an army puppet until 1998. He became prime minister with more than 70% mandate. He was a very popular leader at that time with yellow cab and "karz utaro mulk sanwaro" schemes. His right wing views also gave him the support of religious parties. He made one fatal mistake which was going against the army and embarrassing Gen. Musharraf which costed him his rule. This shows how powerful the army has always been in the country. Another example is the PMLQ government which under Musharraf emerged as kings party and won the elections. It did not survive Musharraf's departure. Long story short, Pakistan army is a beast which no civilian government has ever been able to tame. The expectation that a new government will take the bull by the horn is unrealistic. It may need at least two more decades of democracy before this actually happens.
Similarly, the extremist elements which have been always supported by the establishment will not disappear overnight. Though, Bilawal was exploiting the situation, there is some truth in his statement. It is further backed by the fact that many extremists like Hafiz Saeed roam freely in Pakistan. OBL was found in Pakistan a few miles away from an army base. There is enough evidence to suggest that the military has not been completely sincere in their cleanup effort. No wonder, from India to US, all countries raise the same concern. It took a strong army general like Musharraf to carry out an extremely unpopular Lal masjid like operation and only army itself is capable of conducting a similar operation against these long supported extremists. Imran's government may have full control over how to run the country's economy but when it comes to defence, the army is always the decision maker and will remain so for unforeseeable future.
Last edited:
The whole story about Madrassa having links with JeM could be a non-starter if it has been abandoned for years. If it has been abandoned for years, which appears to be the case based on all non-Indian sources available, then does it have links to JeM?
As for lying, I think the intent is the key part. India lied about the casualties and the F-16 part - but the main thing was they intended to lie and mislead their public and the world. For the Pakistani side, the mix up with second plane likely wasn't intended as they changed the story quickly. So, the intent is the big deal here and I think Indian credibility has been hit quite badly given they were not even intending to tell the truth.
If I can put it all together, based on India's actions and intents, I think this is what India intended: they likely knew that the madrassa was abandoned, and they chose intentionally target it (even if they didn't hit it) because they knew their public would not question it one bit. If they targeted a building that had people inside that building (terrorists or not), they would have expected a much stronger response.
Abdullah719
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2013
- Runs
- 44,825
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WTH is a narrative? Is life now a fascist screenplay where if u don’t follow a script u r declared traitor? Screw u and ur narrative, I have an ideology my ideology doesn’t changes ur narrative will keep changing. Read, think, speak & ignore fascist trolls who run this country.</p>— BilawalBhuttoZardari (@BBhuttoZardari) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBhuttoZardari/status/1109010703191543808?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 22, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Junaid_ahmed
Tape Ball Star
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2019
- Runs
- 897
He actually want the concerns to loose the grip from neck of his father & chor phuppo & that's it.
Asim_khan
Local Club Regular
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2011
- Runs
- 1,338
He's out of control. I think it's over for him
WebGuru
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2013
- Runs
- 21,339
- Post of the Week
- 3
Screw you and your narrative? Bilawal is losing the control it's pretty clear... He is on a suicide twitter mode just like Maryam was a year ago.
Cpt. Rishwat
T20I Captain
- Joined
- May 8, 2010
- Runs
- 43,439
Screw you? Does he think he's starring on Netflix drama 13 Reasons Why?
This guy thinks he is leadership material?
This guy thinks he is leadership material?
WebGuru
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2013
- Runs
- 21,339
- Post of the Week
- 3
Can't blame him when there are some intellects on PP who also think he is "leadership material" after getting the party leadership like a transfer of assets when his mother died.
Canford Cliffs
Local Club Star
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2018
- Runs
- 1,803
That Balakot attack was a serious blow on Pakistan which will have a long lasting impact on their physie . Good to see even Pak establishment is acknowledging it. First time, an Indian jet crossed Pak and attacked their territory since 1971 war was a great feat indeed. Oak initially tried to cover it but truth prevails in the end. Now imagine, if MIG 27 can cause so much fear on neighbours....what would have happened if we had Rafele. I blame congress for it.
Last edited:
IMMY69
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Runs
- 19,543
You know i’m glad you said what you did...
Now perhaps there will be someone here on PP that knows you well enough to organise some treatment...
If they act fast then maybe you won’t have to be sectioned.
There's really no solution for delusion disorder. It seems to be widely spread inside you.
Abdullah719
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2013
- Runs
- 44,825
Murad Saeed accuses Bilawal of taking India's side
ISLAMABAD: Federal Minister Murad Saeed on Tuesday lambasted PPP and PMLN for their criticism of the government, levelling serious allegations against the two major opposition parties.
The firebrand PTI leader said Bilawal Bhutto Zardari chose to take India's side at a time when Pakistan was shooting down PAF warplanes.
He said Bilawal Zardari had become politician on the basis of a "******", referring to Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto's will.
The PTI leader said it was PPP government which appointed Hussain Haqqani as Pakistan Ambassador to US.
Taking aim at PMLN, Murad Saeed said PMLN leadership invited Indian businessman Sajjan Jindal to Murree without any visa.
He said Khawaja Asif admitted during his US visit that banned outfits had their offices in Pakistan.
PMLN and PPP leader interrupted Murad Saeed during the speech with "Go Baby Go" chants.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/461936-murad-saeed-accuses-bilawal-of-taking-indias-side
ISLAMABAD: Federal Minister Murad Saeed on Tuesday lambasted PPP and PMLN for their criticism of the government, levelling serious allegations against the two major opposition parties.
The firebrand PTI leader said Bilawal Bhutto Zardari chose to take India's side at a time when Pakistan was shooting down PAF warplanes.
He said Bilawal Zardari had become politician on the basis of a "******", referring to Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto's will.
The PTI leader said it was PPP government which appointed Hussain Haqqani as Pakistan Ambassador to US.
Taking aim at PMLN, Murad Saeed said PMLN leadership invited Indian businessman Sajjan Jindal to Murree without any visa.
He said Khawaja Asif admitted during his US visit that banned outfits had their offices in Pakistan.
PMLN and PPP leader interrupted Murad Saeed during the speech with "Go Baby Go" chants.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/461936-murad-saeed-accuses-bilawal-of-taking-indias-side
Abdullah719
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2013
- Runs
- 44,825
Another proud moment for Bilawal.
Abdullah719
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2013
- Runs
- 44,825
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Breaking?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Breaking</a> | Pakistan’s Human Rights committee Chairman <a href="https://twitter.com/BBhuttoZardari?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BBhuttoZardari</a> slams Pak PM <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ImranKhanPTI</a> and blames him for the situation of the country.<br><br>TIMES NOW’s Pradeep with details. <a href="https://t.co/QZPoXNxY9y">pic.twitter.com/QZPoXNxY9y</a></p>— TIMES NOW (@TimesNow) <a href="https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/1166285553261662208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 27, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Lonewarrior
First Class Star
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2016
- Runs
- 3,419
what if next day Bilawal says hes going to get IOK kashmir back, will indian media debate about it ?
Abdullah719
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2013
- Runs
- 44,825
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="hi" dir="ltr">Kashmir par sauda na manzoor!</p>— BilawalBhuttoZardari (@BBhuttoZardari) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBhuttoZardari/status/1167339089114337281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 30, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Abdullah719
T20I Captain
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2013
- Runs
- 44,825
Bilawal likens Sindh island authority ordinance to Modi’s Aug 5 move
Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) chairperson Bilawal Bhutto Zardari has said that his party will strongly oppose the “illegal annexation” of Sindh’s islands through a presidential ordinance by the PTI-led federal government.
President Dr Arif Alvi on September 1 promulgated the ordinance for establishing the Pakistan Islands Development Authority for the “development and management of islands in internal and territorial waters of Pakistan.” The ordinance, which emerged on social media on Friday, stated, “Whereas the Senate and the National Assembly are not in session and the president of Islamic Republic is satisfied that circumstances exist, which render it necessary to take immediate action.”
Its ultimate objective was stated to be the development of cities, specifically on Bhandar and Dingi islands off Karachi’s shores.
“I ask how is this act any different to [Indian PM Narendra] Modi’s actions in Occupied Kashmir? [This] move will be opposed in National, Provincial Assembly and the Senate,” tweeted Bilawal on Monday.
Rejecting the ordinance, Sindh Information Minister Nasir Hussain Shah also said in a statement that the islands belonged to the provincial government and Sindh’s land could not be “occupied by any ordinance.”
“The land of these islands belonged to the people of Sindh and it is rightfully theirs,” he said, demanding the immediate revocation of the ordinance which negated the rights of the people of Sindh.
Nationalist leaders slam Centre
Meanwhile, Sindhi nationalist leaders, too, rejected the ordinance, calling for the federal government to rescind the law during a press conference at the Hyderabad Press Club.
Sindh Taraqqi Pasand (STP) party chairperson Dr Qadir Magsi condemned the ‘forceful takeover’ of Sindh’s two islands, Bhandar and Dingi, by the Centre. “The people of Sindh have rejected the presidential ordinance. We will not tolerate unlawful occupation of the islands.”
Magsi said his party will write to diplomats from the United States, China, Saudi Arabia and other countries to dissuade them from making investments in these islands, while also asking the Pakistan Peoples Party and other political parties to clarify their stance on the issue.
Magsi also appealed to the Grand Democratic Alliance (GDA) - a coalition partner in the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf-led federal government - to play its part in the revocation of the ordinance. “The GDA should leave the coalition government if it cannot protect Sindh’s land.”
He said that the STP would organise province-wide protests against the ordinance on Tuesday and Wednesday, and on October 11, a protest rally will march to the Sindh Governor House in Karachi. “Islamabad should desist from anti-Sindh conspiracies. The people of Sindh should not be compelled to take refuge in the mountains and launch a movement for their liberation.”
The STP leader further criticised the performance of the Muttahida Qaumi Movement-Pakistan (MQM-P) during its intermittent rule in local bodies over the past three decades, asking how it could govern a province when it had failed in governing local bodies.
“Urdu-speaking people are brothers and sisters of the Sindhi people,” he said, adding that the former would never become a part of MQM-P’s conspiracy.
Meanwhile, GDA general secretary and president of the Qaumi Awami Tehreek Ayaz Latif Palijo argued that the ordinance was in conflict with Article 172 of the Constitution of Pakistan. “This is an illegal and unconstitutional ordinance which should be cancelled forthwith.”
According to him, Article 172 clearly states that a province is owner of an unowned property in its territorial limits. He added that the sea limits within 22 kilometres from the shore are the property of the province.
Dingi and Bhandar islands are located in the province’s territory, he said. “An act of robbing these islands will be considered a robbery from Sindh,” he warned.
The GDA leader blamed the PPP-led Sindh government for pandering to the Centre’s wishes in order to strike a deal for the corruption cases against the party’s leadership.
Palijo said Sindhis have already been dismayed by the robbery of their water share, and on their coastal belt, and now their islands were under invasion. He advised people to prepare for a struggle for their provincial rights.
He blamed both the federal and the provincial governments for reacting with indifference to the plight of rain- and flood-affected people. “The people who had kept hopes from the PTI government should observe the Centre’s response to the calamity in Sindh.”
Awami Tehreek president Dr Rasool Bux Khaskheli said that the people of Sindh, through their peaceful political struggle, would decimate the dreams of those trying to occupy land in Sindh’s territory or trying to carve out a new province. He argued that the act of establishing the islands authority was tantamount to robbing Sindh and Balochistan of their rights.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/226705...sland-authority-ordinance-to-modis-aug-5-move
Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) chairperson Bilawal Bhutto Zardari has said that his party will strongly oppose the “illegal annexation” of Sindh’s islands through a presidential ordinance by the PTI-led federal government.
President Dr Arif Alvi on September 1 promulgated the ordinance for establishing the Pakistan Islands Development Authority for the “development and management of islands in internal and territorial waters of Pakistan.” The ordinance, which emerged on social media on Friday, stated, “Whereas the Senate and the National Assembly are not in session and the president of Islamic Republic is satisfied that circumstances exist, which render it necessary to take immediate action.”
Its ultimate objective was stated to be the development of cities, specifically on Bhandar and Dingi islands off Karachi’s shores.
“I ask how is this act any different to [Indian PM Narendra] Modi’s actions in Occupied Kashmir? [This] move will be opposed in National, Provincial Assembly and the Senate,” tweeted Bilawal on Monday.
Rejecting the ordinance, Sindh Information Minister Nasir Hussain Shah also said in a statement that the islands belonged to the provincial government and Sindh’s land could not be “occupied by any ordinance.”
“The land of these islands belonged to the people of Sindh and it is rightfully theirs,” he said, demanding the immediate revocation of the ordinance which negated the rights of the people of Sindh.
Nationalist leaders slam Centre
Meanwhile, Sindhi nationalist leaders, too, rejected the ordinance, calling for the federal government to rescind the law during a press conference at the Hyderabad Press Club.
Sindh Taraqqi Pasand (STP) party chairperson Dr Qadir Magsi condemned the ‘forceful takeover’ of Sindh’s two islands, Bhandar and Dingi, by the Centre. “The people of Sindh have rejected the presidential ordinance. We will not tolerate unlawful occupation of the islands.”
Magsi said his party will write to diplomats from the United States, China, Saudi Arabia and other countries to dissuade them from making investments in these islands, while also asking the Pakistan Peoples Party and other political parties to clarify their stance on the issue.
Magsi also appealed to the Grand Democratic Alliance (GDA) - a coalition partner in the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf-led federal government - to play its part in the revocation of the ordinance. “The GDA should leave the coalition government if it cannot protect Sindh’s land.”
He said that the STP would organise province-wide protests against the ordinance on Tuesday and Wednesday, and on October 11, a protest rally will march to the Sindh Governor House in Karachi. “Islamabad should desist from anti-Sindh conspiracies. The people of Sindh should not be compelled to take refuge in the mountains and launch a movement for their liberation.”
The STP leader further criticised the performance of the Muttahida Qaumi Movement-Pakistan (MQM-P) during its intermittent rule in local bodies over the past three decades, asking how it could govern a province when it had failed in governing local bodies.
“Urdu-speaking people are brothers and sisters of the Sindhi people,” he said, adding that the former would never become a part of MQM-P’s conspiracy.
Meanwhile, GDA general secretary and president of the Qaumi Awami Tehreek Ayaz Latif Palijo argued that the ordinance was in conflict with Article 172 of the Constitution of Pakistan. “This is an illegal and unconstitutional ordinance which should be cancelled forthwith.”
According to him, Article 172 clearly states that a province is owner of an unowned property in its territorial limits. He added that the sea limits within 22 kilometres from the shore are the property of the province.
Dingi and Bhandar islands are located in the province’s territory, he said. “An act of robbing these islands will be considered a robbery from Sindh,” he warned.
The GDA leader blamed the PPP-led Sindh government for pandering to the Centre’s wishes in order to strike a deal for the corruption cases against the party’s leadership.
Palijo said Sindhis have already been dismayed by the robbery of their water share, and on their coastal belt, and now their islands were under invasion. He advised people to prepare for a struggle for their provincial rights.
He blamed both the federal and the provincial governments for reacting with indifference to the plight of rain- and flood-affected people. “The people who had kept hopes from the PTI government should observe the Centre’s response to the calamity in Sindh.”
Awami Tehreek president Dr Rasool Bux Khaskheli said that the people of Sindh, through their peaceful political struggle, would decimate the dreams of those trying to occupy land in Sindh’s territory or trying to carve out a new province. He argued that the act of establishing the islands authority was tantamount to robbing Sindh and Balochistan of their rights.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/226705...sland-authority-ordinance-to-modis-aug-5-move
Similar threads
