Before the World Cup started, we supposedly used the Australia/England series as an experiment...

[Sherlock]

...yet when we started the WC we still didn't know our best side.

So what exactly was the point of the matches before the WC if we didn't know our best XI?

We're now looking at replacing Malik, and hopefully Hafeez with players we haven't tried yet when they should've already played.

We can't rely on Fakhar Zaman to be consistent enough and the only opener, Abid Ali, is too old to play in the next WC for him to be the replacement.

It's like we make decisions on the go and we don't not pre-plan on the future.

It's infuriating and damn-near embarrassing.

 

[jnaveen1980]

You had your best XI. In a way those flat pitches helped you somewhat. only because all bowlers bowled poorly you went back to Amir, Wahab. Shadab was always going to play. Fakhar was supposed to be your trump card. Many wanted the head of Amir before ENgland series. After England series many wanted the head of Shaheen. Tunes of Pak fans kept changing after every match , based on who performed worse in that match. I Never understood why Imad consistently got hate from fans. One thing i will never understand is how the heck someone useless like Malik had so much backing. There is not a whole lot of difference between fans and selectors in terms of suggesting or selecting players. Performances of Pak players were so erratic that nobody knew who would be the perfect XI.

 

[rhony]

You had your best XI. In a way those flat pitches helped you somewhat. only because all bowlers bowled poorly you went back to Amir, Wahab. Shadab was always going to play. Fakhar was supposed to be your trump card. Many wanted the head of Amir before ENgland series. After England series many wanted the head of Shaheen. Tunes of Pak fans kept changing after every match , based on who performed worse in that match. I Never understood why Imad consistently got hate from fans. One thing i will never understand is how the heck someone useless like Malik had so much backing. There is not a whole lot of difference between fans and selectors in terms of suggesting or selecting players. Performances of Pak players were so erratic that nobody knew who would be the perfect XI.

Nailed it. I remember fellow PPers wanted Malik to be the Pak captain when Sarf was banned for the racist comment. I mean the numbers were there. Haris Sohail, Rizwan and co put up the numbers and you still go back to Malik. That baffles me. He hoodwinked an entire country for 4 years.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

...yet when we started the WC we still didn't know our best side.

So what exactly was the point of the matches before the WC if we didn't know our best XI?

We're now looking at replacing Malik, and hopefully Hafeez with players we haven't tried yet when they should've already played.

We can't rely on Fakhar Zaman to be consistent enough and the only opener, Abid Ali, is too old to play in the next WC for him to be the replacement.

It's like we make decisions on the go and we don't not pre-plan on the future.

It's infuriating and damn-near embarrassing.

Because the roads that England had prepared completely threw Pakistan off. Those flat pancake wickets have only appeared in Eng vs Pakistan, Eng vs India, Eng vs NZ this WC. Shaheen Afridi was dismantled in that series and I'm pretty sure lost a lot of confidence. It took 2-3 games in the WC to get it back. It forced Pakistan to rethink their whole bowling strategy and drop part of their pace battery. Similarly the bats were made to seem better than they were. That whole series was T20 cricket being played in a 50 over format. It was ridiculous. Eng were chasing down or 350+ totals regularly, meanwhile only one team has chased 300+ succesfully this WC and England proved they were abysmal at chasing in tougher conditions this WC.
I think those 300+ chases were part of the reason Sarfraz and co chose to bowl vs India

 

[Pakistanian]

This was Pakistan's best XI, there's no alternative. If the Sri Lanka game wasn't washed out then Pakistan would be in the semis right now and none of y'all would be complaining.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

This was Pakistan's best XI, there's no alternative. If the Sri Lanka game wasn't washed out then Pakistan would be in the semis right now and none of y'all would be complaining.

We're complaining because they only figured out their best XI halfway through the tournament when they needed to win 4 out of 4 matches when they should have done much earlier considering they were in England for much longer before that.

 

[Naveedahmed1]

The aus eng series was a farce was supposed to pick back up players for wc from that squad but no one was selected bar Harris although he was always going to be in the squad

 

[Captain caveman]

Virtually every tournament pak goes into, they don't know their best 11 and are always trying to discover it during the competition! Thats why we are such slow starters!

 

[jnaveen1980]

Virtually every tournament pak goes into, they don't know their best 11 and are always trying to discover it during the competition! Thats why we are such slow starters!

Part of the reason is you rely on history somewhat. Hasan Ali did well in CT 2017 so he will do well in 2019 also. Malik plays spin well against India, so he will do well against India. Many said Shaheen should not have been even part of the squad as he was consistently bowling short until the NZ match. Wahab actually bowled better than expected. Still the same old Wahab could be seen time and again.

With respect to batting Openers set the tone for teams. Apart from New zealand all the other three teams had fantastic opening stands. If the openers don't click most of the teams suck. Pakistan had an opener with a strike rate of 68 (until the last match) and an erratic hack.

Also Pakistan batting against spin is highly suspect. That includes Babar. Pretty much no.1 to no.11 (bar Hafeez) they are suspect. They will struggle on UAE pitches against Asian sides in the future.

 

[Pete Rose]

Pakistan has scored more 300 runs with regularity over most of this year. Every batsman they have tested has done well: abid ali, Rizwan, haris sohail all scores bucket load of runs. Imam has piled up runs as well. Fakhar zaman deserved to play given his figures. Even Asif Ali managed to put together a couple of innings in England under pressure.
The only reason Pakistan has failed in this World Cup is because Malik and Hafeez basically occupied two spots in the team.
I am not as morose about this World Cup as I was about 2015. In 2015, our senior players were rubbish (hafeez, afridi, younis) but also even our future looked bleak with players like sohaib, Umar Akmal, rahat Ali, Ahmed Shehzad.
Here everyone barring Malik and Hafeez look like a good bet for the future

 

[Pete Rose]

Part of the reason is you rely on history somewhat. Hasan Ali did well in CT 2017 so he will do well in 2019 also. Malik plays spin well against India, so he will do well against India. Many said Shaheen should not have been even part of the squad as he was consistently bowling short until the NZ match. Wahab actually bowled better than expected. Still the same old Wahab could be seen time and again.

With respect to batting Openers set the tone for teams. Apart from New zealand all the other three teams had fantastic opening stands. If the openers don't click most of the teams suck. Pakistan had an opener with a strike rate of 68 (until the last match) and an erratic hack.

Also Pakistan batting against spin is highly suspect. That includes Babar. Pretty much no.1 to no.11 (bar Hafeez) they are suspect. They will struggle on UAE pitches against Asian sides in the future.

Every game we lost was because of our middle order. NZ regularly recovered from being two down in the first ten overs. But they had quality like Williamson and Taylor. Whereas Pakistan would have hafeez or Malik coming in while the game was still alive and getting dismissed playing soft shots or being dismissed for a duck.
We lost three games, where game against West Indies was the only we truly deserved to lose. Against India and specially Australia, our senior players let us down.

 

[rhony]

Every game we lost was because of our middle order. NZ regularly recovered from being two down in the first ten overs. But they had quality like Williamson and Taylor. Whereas Pakistan would have hafeez or Malik coming in while the game was still alive and getting dismissed playing soft shots or being dismissed for a duck.
We lost three games, where game against West Indies was the only we truly deserved to lose. Against India and specially Australia, our senior players let us down.

There is no way you can chase 300+ without a good start. There are very few middle order batsman in world cricket capable of scoring hundreds. You need hundreds to chase 300+

 

[Pete Rose]

There is no way you can chase 300+ without a good start. There are very few middle order batsman in world cricket capable of scoring hundreds. You need hundreds to chase 300+

You can chase and set scores of 300 sometimes without a good start. What matters is what your players do when the game is still alive. If our openers fail after 2 years in international cricket, I have a lot more sympathy for them because they have great figures.
I have little sympathy for guys who have played 15 years or cricket and they have mediocre figures now and even when they were two or three years in to the game.

 

[Captain caveman]

Part of the reason is you rely on history somewhat. Hasan Ali did well in CT 2017 so he will do well in 2019 also. Malik plays spin well against India, so he will do well against India. Many said Shaheen should not have been even part of the squad as he was consistently bowling short until the NZ match. Wahab actually bowled better than expected. Still the same old Wahab could be seen time and again.

With respect to batting Openers set the tone for teams. Apart from New zealand all the other three teams had fantastic opening stands. If the openers don't click most of the teams suck. Pakistan had an opener with a strike rate of 68 (until the last match) and an erratic hack.

Also Pakistan batting against spin is highly suspect. That includes Babar. Pretty much no.1 to no.11 (bar Hafeez) they are suspect. They will struggle on UAE pitches against Asian sides in the future.

What you say is true, but the biggest problem is that players are not selected on merit!
Political and media backed players are the real issues.
And of course nepotism!

 

[jnaveen1980]

Teams that backed "oldies" have suffered somewhat. Tahir is probably the lone exception. Gayle, Dhoni, Malik, Amla all sucked.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan has to identify players like Babar Azam. Someone who can show consistency. Only then they will lose this "unpredictability" tag. Team is unpredictable because players are unpredictable

 

[nik45hil]

Teams that backed "oldies" have suffered somewhat. Tahir is probably the lone exception. Gayle, Dhoni, Malik, Amla all sucked.

The so called old dhoni sucked all through 2011 world cup too until came the day of finals ......

So well.......

 

[Revolution]

Dhoni was failure on batting but still best in wicket keeping.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Dhoni was failure on batting but still best in wicket keeping.

by conceding highest number of byes? 24 i think. second worst 9.

 

[Sherlock]

Okay, seems like alot of "This was Pakistan's best side..." response to what I'm stating are missing the obvious point...

They got the correct, barring Hafeez, line-up midway through the tournament and not in the first game.

That's the point.

 

[Sherlock]

We're complaining because they only figured out their best XI halfway through the tournament when they needed to win 4 out of 4 matches when they should have done much earlier considering they were in England for much longer before that.

Thank you.

 

[Hasan123]

This is why we got we deserved at the WC. We were under prepared.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You had your best XI. In a way those flat pitches helped you somewhat. only because all bowlers bowled poorly you went back to Amir, Wahab. Shadab was always going to play. Fakhar was supposed to be your trump card. Many wanted the head of Amir before ENgland series. After England series many wanted the head of Shaheen. Tunes of Pak fans kept changing after every match , based on who performed worse in that match. I Never understood why Imad consistently got hate from fans. One thing i will never understand is how the heck someone useless like Malik had so much backing. There is not a whole lot of difference between fans and selectors in terms of suggesting or selecting players. Performances of Pak players were so erratic that nobody knew who would be the perfect XI.

Many esteemed posters in PP rated Malik.

Thot he turned a corner.

[MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] was right all along.

 

[Sherlock]

This is why we got we deserved at the WC. We were under prepared.

That's the issue here, no? How can we have been underprepared when you experiment with teams before the WC so we know fore sure what our best starting XI is.

Our selectors are the most ignorant and pathetic and they have a lot to answer for.

 

[AdamM97]

This was bound to happen. Good teams like England and India experimented two or three years ago.

 

[barah_admi]

...yet when we started the WC we still didn't know our best side.

So what exactly was the point of the matches before the WC if we didn't know our best XI?

We're now looking at replacing Malik, and hopefully Hafeez with players we haven't tried yet when they should've already played.

We can't rely on Fakhar Zaman to be consistent enough and the only opener, Abid Ali, is too old to play in the next WC for him to be the replacement.

It's like we make decisions on the go and we don't not pre-plan on the future.

It's infuriating and damn-near embarrassing.

That's not quite true. The aus series was used as an experiment to try out some non regulars. The England series wS used to refine the side, which it did.

Out of the playing eleven, imam, Fakhar, babar, sarfraz, Hafeez, Malik, shaheen, imad and Ali were all built into the side. Obviously shadab returned from injury, Malik was dropped and the bowling included Amir and Riaz but stop acting like this squad wasn't made over the last two years.

 

[Sherlock]

That's not quite true. The aus series was used as an experiment to try out some non regulars. The England series wS used to refine the side, which it did.

Out of the playing eleven, imam, Fakhar, babar, sarfraz, Hafeez, Malik, shaheen, imad and Ali were all built into the side. Obviously shadab returned from injury, Malik was dropped and the bowling included Amir and Riaz but stop acting like this squad wasn't made over the last two years.

No. The Aussies series was supposed to put in non-regulars, it did but then the same players weren't picked for the England side.

Also I'm not acting as if this side wasn't made in the last 2 years, I'm stating why wasn't this side [the one that finished the last 4 game] wasn't picked to begin with.

Acting, I'm not.

 

[Hasan123]

That's the issue here, no? How can we have been underprepared when you experiment with teams before the WC so we know fore sure what our best starting XI is.

Our selectors are the most ignorant and pathetic and they have a lot to answer for.

Lack of specialist spinners and sticking with under performing players cost us big time. Why do we deserve luck when we don't give ourselves the best chance of competing?

 

[Hawkeye]

Many esteemed posters in PP rated Malik.

Thot he turned a corner.

[MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] was right all along.

I still remember how almost everyone was singing Malik's praises after his Zimbabwe bashing post-comeback.

I used to get hate for calling Malik out. )

 

[Nasty Naz]

In their first match, Pakistan did have Haris at 4, Hafeez at 6. They had their batting lineup set in the best way possible. Only difference in that lineup was Hasan instead of Afridi which was understandable for the first match.

Which is why that WI blowout game was the worst possible scenario because not only did they to lose an opponent they should have beaten, they also ruined their NRR and panicked on their XI after the first match. I think this is why it is also important to trust your process, if you've done the hard work and legitimately figured your best XI, then you shouldn't be panicking after the first loss and changing everything up.

Pakistan mistake was not playing that XI they had chosen vs WI to be the playing XI consistently in matches vs England series and the series that came before. It seemed like unless Hafeez was injured, Haris wouldn't play and Malik was playing at 5 for a while. It's decisions like these that cost them. The time to experiment was in series like Zimbabwe, not vs Australia/England. That was when they needed to playing their best XI (at least on the batting side -- to give bowlers rest).

 

[barah_admi]

No. The Aussies series was supposed to put in non-regulars, it did but then the same players weren't picked for the England side.

Also I'm not acting as if this side wasn't made in the last 2 years, I'm stating why wasn't this side [the one that finished the last 4 game] wasn't picked to begin with.

Acting, I'm not.

There were some tweaks but like I said, the core of the team that has played dtogeher for the last 2 years was playing in this world Cup.

Riaz was the only complete outsider, Amir was a regular, Hasnain was a new inclusion and imam and Fakhar have been the opening pair for a while now.

Babar, Hafeez, Malik, sarfraz, shadab, hasan and Imad were all part of the ct winning side, that's 7 out of a possible 11.

Of course there will be some changes across the course of a tournament and no de of those came out of the blue. Sohail has been around the squad for a while and Asif Ali in and out.

Again, Riaz was the only surprise inclusion. Not sure where this narrative that the best combination wasn't known has come from.

 

[Kashmiri_Pak_fan]

After WI game Management panicked and recalled back Malik inplace of Haris...otherwise they had almost sorted the batting order well prior to West Indies game with haris at 4, sarfaraz at 5 and Hafeez at six.

 

[ARK Rafay]

You had your best XI. In a way those flat pitches helped you somewhat. only because all bowlers bowled poorly you went back to Amir, Wahab. Shadab was always going to play. Fakhar was supposed to be your trump card. Many wanted the head of Amir before ENgland series. After England series many wanted the head of Shaheen. Tunes of Pak fans kept changing after every match , based on who performed worse in that match. I Never understood why Imad consistently got hate from fans. One thing i will never understand is how the heck someone useless like Malik had so much backing. There is not a whole lot of difference between fans and selectors in terms of suggesting or selecting players. Performances of Pak players were so erratic that nobody knew who would be the perfect XI.

Can't disagree.

 

[Saj]

I thought the planning was all wrong as the West Indies match showed.

Some players were undercooked, others were overcooked and they didn't know their best XI.

 

[Markhor]

I still remember how almost everyone was singing Malik's praises after his Zimbabwe bashing post-comeback.

I used to get hate for calling Malik out. )

"Shoaib Malik 2.0" was the nickname when it was just more of Shoaib Malik 1.0.

What a waste of four years when we could've invested in a young batsman for those series against weaker opponents.

 

[faizanj]

Experimenting with the team just before the WC was always going to backfire. The whole management should be replaced now including Sarfraz as captain, Micky and Inzi as well.

 

[Sherlock]

There were some tweaks but like I said, the core of the team that has played dtogeher for the last 2 years was playing in this world Cup.

Riaz was the only complete outsider, Amir was a regular, Hasnain was a new inclusion and imam and Fakhar have been the opening pair for a while now.

Babar, Hafeez, Malik, sarfraz, shadab, hasan and Imad were all part of the ct winning side, that's 7 out of a possible 11.

Of course there will be some changes across the course of a tournament and no de of those came out of the blue. Sohail has been around the squad for a while and Asif Ali in and out.

Again, Riaz was the only surprise inclusion. Not sure where this narrative that the best combination wasn't known has come from.

The problem I have, and have had for a long time, is we didn't experiment with the squad 2-3 years before but instead waited just before the WC to try something.

Serious teams try that crap out years before the WC and not something to dabble in weeks before it.

When did I suggest there was a surprise inclusion? What I am saying is we didn't prepare long enough to have the rightful players in at the correct time. We did things too late and then when we did change it we included Abid Ali as an opener who won't be there in the next WC, and we then dropped Rizwan from the squad altogether and didn't have a sub WK in the squad either.

There's no planning for the future, no tactics the up-and-coming players can adhere to and just a case of on the spot decisions.

 

[Sherlock]

I thought the planning was all wrong as the West Indies match showed.

Some players were undercooked, others were overcooked and they didn't know their best XI.

That's exactly it. Why did that happen when Micky himself state we wanted to experiment with the squad in the Australia series and then we didn't do anything else in the England series and planned to have the same side, barring Wahab/Amir, in the WC squad.

Professional boards and management prepare properly and not a few weeks before a WC is going to start. We've been a backwards board and have the poorest team selection panels in the top half of the world, and we don't seem to learn.

 

[coy0607]

The experiments should've been done a year ago. The last few series before the world cup need to be used to refine your squad and find the right mix - not to make major selection decisions

Because they didn't use that time well, in affect they ended up wasting the first few WC games. Very very poor planning

 

[Sherlock]

The experiments should've been done a year ago. The last few series before the world cup need to be used to refine your squad and find the right mix - not to make major selection decisions

Because they didn't use that time well, in affect they ended up wasting the first few WC games. Very very poor planning

Exactly. Time to experiment came and went.

Also only having Hasnain as the up-and-coming newcomer to the squad was beyond belief.

 

[Misia]

I believe the selectors is the problem

Chief was a great bat, terrible runner, never the fittest or that Good as fielder

Selection committe needs to consist ofspecific selectors
batsmen,
bowler,
allrounder/spinner
Coach

Playing 11 decided between Cap/Coach

 

[ask_analyse_act]

We're complaining because they only figured out their best XI halfway through the tournament when they needed to win 4 out of 4 matches when they should have done much earlier considering they were in England for much longer before that.

They know their best 11 , especially Mickey who has enough experience to know and select which is the best 11 to play..

Why Inzi was part of the team for the first 5 games to select the right 11...

Lost 3 , 1 washed out and won 1.... this was the result of the first 5 games... Then Inzi wasnt part of the selecting 11 and the team started winning again..


Someone has to be very dumb and stupid to play 4 pacers against Australia without a frontline spinner unless it is a pacers paradise..

 

[Saj]

Playing a second string team against Australia was the start of the problems.

Resting players at that time was totally wrong. That should have been done earlier.

 

[pakistani pride]

You had your best XI. In a way those flat pitches helped you somewhat. only because all bowlers bowled poorly you went back to Amir, Wahab. Shadab was always going to play. Fakhar was supposed to be your trump card. Many wanted the head of Amir before ENgland series. After England series many wanted the head of Shaheen. Tunes of Pak fans kept changing after every match , based on who performed worse in that match. I Never understood why Imad consistently got hate from fans. One thing i will never understand is how the heck someone useless like Malik had so much backing. There is not a whole lot of difference between fans and selectors in terms of suggesting or selecting players. Performances of Pak players were so erratic that nobody knew who would be the perfect XI.

The perfect 11 played the last 4 games and won all 4. The main issue was no one putting the foot down and made sure Malik was not selected.

He should never have been in the squad.

 

[Zaz]

on paper that middle order of hafeez sarfraz and malik was atrocious and thats how it panned out You cant expect players who have been average over several years to become exceptionally good and to have 3 one after the other was always gonna be costly

the west indies embarassment caused the changes that cost the team this world cup

like a poster said they panicked and brought back malik, the best team trust their decisions and back the players selected but pakistan didnt and wasted 2-3 losses on malik

by the time they got the combination right it was too late

 

[Savak]

To be Honest, you can't blame the team management for chopping, changing the playing eleven. Players can be out of form and you can't have out of form players in a world cup. The team management should have dropped Shoaib Malik and Hasan Ali a lot earlier than they did

 

[Mr.Q]

Some excellent points have been made here about the poor team selection and lack of confidence in the selections made in the sense that they weren’t persistent enough.

But let me play the devil’s advocate here. Pakistan didn’t come to the tournament with any major wins. In fact they were on a losing streak. So how can you expect the management/selectors to be sure about a particular combination? There was no ‘winning combination’ they could look at. They selected a decent XI (almost identical to the one that played the last four matches) at the beginning of the tournament against the West Indies and the result was a humiliating defeat. This created a lot of confusion. So I’m not ready to put the blame entirely on the selectors. They were unsure about the combination simply because the team wasn’t performing and was responding poorly to the selections made. I would still blame the team’s inconsistency for the poor run in the World Cup. The last four wins are now being used to hide that inconsistency and renew contracts that must have been terminated. And unsurprisingly people are falling for the “we were just unlucky” narrative.

 

[barah_admi]

The problem I have, and have had for a long time, is we didn't experiment with the squad 2-3 years before but instead waited just before the WC to try something.

Serious teams try that crap out years before the WC and not something to dabble in weeks before it.

When did I suggest there was a surprise inclusion? What I am saying is we didn't prepare long enough to have the rightful players in at the correct time. We did things too late and then when we did change it we included Abid Ali as an opener who won't be there in the next WC, and we then dropped Rizwan from the squad altogether and didn't have a sub WK in the squad either.

There's no planning for the future, no tactics the up-and-coming players can adhere to and just a case of on the spot decisions.

I dont want to keep repeating myself. Out of a team of 11, about 7 or 8 players have played consistently for 2 years or so.

 

[Sherlock]

I dont want to keep repeating myself. Out of a team of 11, about 7 or 8 players have played consistently for 2 years or so.

And I don't want to keep repeating myself where I've said we should've had players at the ready way before the Australia/England series'.

This isn't just about your 2 years duration, this is about playing for the future where this squad has failed coming into the WC and have failed before that too.

The likes of Malik and Hafeez should've been binned straight after the CT final, they weren't and here we are.