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Beijing plans to turn Pakistan into its economic colony

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NEW DELHI: China's longterm plans for Pakistan would do the East India Company proud. Proposals for the China Pakistan Economic Corridor revealed in Pakistani newspaper Dawn envisage thousands of acres of agricultural land being leased to Chinese enterprises to set up demonstration projects and a fibre-optic system that will facilitate the dissemination of Chinese culture.

The proposals seem to confirm that Pakistan will become an economic colony of China as CPEC will help Beijing tighten its strategic embrace of its ally and provide it connectivity from Xinjiang to the Arabian Sea at Gwadar in Balochistan.

The range and scope of the plan is breathtaking, showing a deep penetration into Pakistan's economic life. This could have several implications for India - Pakistan's sovereignty could be forfeited to Chinese interests and China would be uncomfortably close to India's borders in the east and west.


The land will be leased for projects ranging from seed varieties to irrigation technology. A full system of monitoring and surveillance will be built from Peshawar to Karachi, with 24-hour video recordings on roads and busy marketplaces for law and order.

A national fibre optic backbone will be used not only for internet traffic but also terrestrial distribution of broadcast TV, which will cooperate with Chinese media in popularising China's culture.

The Pakistani government has argued that CPEC will spur the economy and its linkages with agriculture and power will benefit citizens. Its critics, particularly in Gilgit-Baltistan and Balochistan , feel it is an infringement on their land and culture.

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/chi...-its-economic-colony/articleshow/58689279.cms
 
CPEC will save Pakistan,3 rd world countries need investment and basically CPEC is that , Pakistan ends up being right second time within it's existence after choosing NATO earlier on.

Chinese work ethic will help spur innovation and if they will be monitoring law and order even better for Pak.

The article has not presented one proper analogy as to how it is similar to East India company.
 
Lol @ popularizing Chinese TV and Media in Pakistan. So, will Pakistanis also learn Chinese in the coming years?

This could benefit Pakistan big-time in the future if China emerges as a superpower. Pakistan could get a head start for being the earliest ally of China before the Dragon spreads it's wings to other parts of the world.
 
A bit long but right on the topic

Is India trying to convince the world China’s OBOR plan is secretly colonial?

More than 29 heads of nations came together in Beijing on Sunday to officially launch China’s massive One Belt One Road initiative, an effort that some have described as the biggest overseas development push in history. But despite the enormity of the project, which will include investments estimated at $900 billion to develop new land and maritime trade routes between China and Europe, Beijing’s most populous neighbour was conspicuous by its absence.

Explaining its decision to stay away, the Indian government released a statement saying it is concerned about China’s attitude towards territorial sovereignty and financial responsibility.

“We are of firm belief that connectivity initiatives must be based on universally recognised international norms, good governance, rule of law, openness, transparency and equality... Connectivity projects must be pursued in a manner that respects sovereignty and territorial integrity.

...Guided by our principled position in the matter, we have been urging China to engage in a meaningful dialogue on its connectivity initiative, ‘One Belt, One Road’ which was later renamed as ‘Belt and Road Initiative’. We are awaiting a positive response from the Chinese side.” — Ministry of External Affairs

The Times of India condensed this to a simple phrase that would easily resonate with Indians, saying New Delhi’s strongly worded statement suggested that the Belt and Road project “is little more than a colonial enterprise, leaving debt and broken communities in its wake”.

China-Pakistan corridor
India’s statement is generally being read as a direct response to the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, a $62 billion package of infrastructure projects considered one of the flagship parts of the Belt and Road initiative.

The CPEC connects China’s western Xinjiang province with Gwadar port, while also giving Pakistan access to other Central Asian nations. But a significant portion of the corridor runs through what New Delhi calls Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

This has constantly caused heartburn in relations between New Delhi and Beijing. Prime Minister Narendra Modi made a reference to the CPEC at the Raisina Dialogue in January, saying “only by respecting the sovereignty of countries involved, can regional connectivity corridors fulfill their promise and avoid differences and discord.”

Saturday’s statement from the Ministry of External Affairs about the Belt and Road Initiative reiterated this.

“Regarding the so-called ‘China-Pakistan Economic Corridor’, which is being projected as the flagship project of the BRI/OBOR, the international community is well aware of India’s position. No country can accept a project that ignores its core concerns on sovereignty and territorial integrity.”

Colonial China
While the references to CPEC and sovereignty are to be expected, Saturday’s statement included objections that go beyond questions of territory.

“Connectivity initiatives must follow principles of financial responsibility to avoid projects that would create unsustainable debt burden for communities; balanced ecological and environmental protection and preservation standards; transparent assessment of project costs; and skill and technology transfer to help long term running and maintenance of the assets created by local communities.”

India has always insisted on referring to OBOR as a “unilateral” or “national” project of China’s rather than a regional, multilateral one. Indian Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar said in 2015 that OBOR is a “national initiative devised with national interests,” and that if China wanted India to buy into it, they would “need to have larger discussions and those haven’t happened.”

References to financial responsibility, environmental protection, transparency and technology transfer now expand on this idea with a more specific critique.

With the CPEC, India wanted China to know that it is miffed about the initiative intruding on disputed territory. With the new references, it seems like it is trying to convince countries that are party to OBOR that getting close to China might be a bad idea.

Debt diplomacy
This is not new. Analysts have for some time warned that Beijing’s massive initiative is essentially aimed at helping China transition from a manufacturing nation into a consumer economy, get rid of excess capacity, reduce the disparity between its western and eastern provinces and, most importantly, project Chinese geostrategic power throughout the neighbourhood and beyond.

Foreign policy analyst Brahma Chellaney called the OBOR China’s “debt-trap diplomacy”, arguing that it intentionally puts partner countries in debt to increase Beijing’s leverage.

Ratings agency Fitch warned in a report earlier this year that OBOR does not address the most pressing infrastructure needs of partner countries and could easily result in unviable projects and smaller nations saddled with large debts.

There have already been examples of this. In Sri Lanka, China helped build a large port and airport near Hambantota but with little economic activity emerging from either project, the loans are mounting and that debt is turning into equity, giving Beijing more control over key assets on the island country. Analysts in Cambodia have raised red flags suggesting the same thing might happen there.

Seema Sirohi, writing in the Economic Times, goes further, calling OBOR “not globalisation 2.0 but dominance 3.0”. New Delhi now appears to be taking this line too.

Too little too late
Yet it is important to also note that almost every large country in the world, apart from India, was already at the table in Beijing. Even the United States of America, which initially planned to snub Beijing, sent representatives after China said it would open its market to American beef. The same applied to India’s neighbourhood. Every one of India’s neighbours, barring Bhutan, had a delegation at the Belt and Road Forum.

Never mind questions about what India’s own connectivity efforts have amounted to, whether it is the Spice Route or Project Mausam, the Indian Ocean-focused SAGAR or New Delhi’s inability to keep even Bhutan in a road project connecting the neighbourhood.

The last-minute statement from MEA suggests negotiations for India to turn up at the Belt and Road Forum failed, as have most other attempts to connect with Beijing recently – whether it is keeping India out of the Nuclear Suppliers Group or in preventing Masood Azhar from being declared a global terrorist.

India might be attempting a face-saver in bringing up questions of finances and transparency with OBOR, but it is unlikely to convince anyone beyond a domestic audience, at least for the moment.

But MEA seems to have finally made its position on OBOR clear. What will snubbing China, India’s largest trading partner, mean for events in a region that is already tense?

https://www.dawn.com/news/1333304/i...e-world-chinas-obor-plan-is-secretly-colonial
 
It's actually very encouraging to see so much care and concern from our Indian brothers to ensure we don't make wrong decisions :)

This is the way forward, less hatred and more trade and sports will result in better relations.
 
From Failed Nation to Jailed Nation.
:salute


It's a step up surely, all homegrown critics should be delighted. Can't wait to read the gushing praise in the Tribune.
 
Sounds like India will be strengthening economic relations with Pakistan soon so we don't become a Chinese colony. Great to hear, finally both countries will play cricket with each other again. Pak-India dosti Zindabad.
 
Lots of Pakistani's living in Pakistan are also concerned about this happening but I don't think our military will ever let this happen and frankly speaking, with most of our population wasting their time watching paint dry, the more the job opportunities - the better, at whatever cost.
 
I would actually prefer a Chinese colony around us compared to what we got right now.
 
Lots of Pakistani's living in Pakistan are also concerned about this happening but I don't think our military will ever let this happen and frankly speaking, with most of our population wasting their time watching paint dry, the more the job opportunities - the better, at whatever cost.

Chinese will throw a few million dollars at the Army generals and they will be happy. Money Talks.
 
Pakistan as it is not going anywhere. With the security situation, its hard to attract foriegn investment.

China is already a world leader in technology and will provide the much needed investment for Pakistan. Pakistanis will benefit from it at least in the short term.

Long term, China is not doing this for charity. This will help them easy access to middle east and the natural resources rich Balochistan. Which means they will make billions more while giving some millions to Pakistan. It can also surround India both from the East side and West Side. Pretty much a Checkmate. India will be forced to bow down and submit itself completely to China if everything goes China's way.

There is a great chance Pak will be red washed. Chinese will not tolerate religion in general and extremism is a no no for them. Will be interesting to see how a communist athiest China and Pak work together especially when China is spreading its tentacles all over Pak.

But this could be a blessing in disguise for Pak. China will curb religious extremism and do not go soft on extremists. They will lay the hammer if it harms their interests.

This could be a Jackpot for Pakistan if China goes on to overtake USA in the future. But if China fails or if its economy collapses, Pak will be in serious trouble.

Interesting decade a head for Pakistan.
 
Great to see the padosi's so concerned about Pakistan being turned into a Chinese colony.Heartwarming.
 
Pakistan must use whatever opportunity for economic growth it can get . Hard earned money out of your own sweat will bring peace, as the fear of loosing all this progress will make everyone considerate. Not handouts to mullahs and fanatic groups like what the Sauds/US are doing .

But China's intentions are a concern in the whole of Asia. They seek to do to the world what Imperial Japan did to them . Its China's payback . .
 
Lol @ popularizing Chinese TV and Media in Pakistan. So, will Pakistanis also learn Chinese in the coming years?

This could benefit Pakistan big-time in the future if China emerges as a superpower. Pakistan could get a head start for being the earliest ally of China before the Dragon spreads it's wings to other parts of the world.

it is already happening. Few schools in Islamabad made it compulsory to learn chinese. estimated 8000 kids are being taught Mandarin.
 
Great to see the padosi's so concerned about Pakistan being turned into a Chinese colony.Heartwarming.

Not to forget the the Project "Role of Army in Nation Building". A project from mid 90s that emphasised having a well developed road network and trade route. That was in 90s and OBOR was proposed 5-6 years ago. So already we have a head start of at least 15 years when it comes to dynamics and dimensions. We need not to worry.
 
Pakistan must use whatever opportunity for economic growth it can get . Hard earned money out of your own sweat will bring peace, as the fear of loosing all this progress will make everyone considerate. Not handouts to mullahs and fanatic groups like what the Sauds/US are doing .

But China's intentions are a concern in the whole of Asia. They seek to do to the world what Imperial Japan did to them . Its China's payback . .

never going to happen. China isn't sending ships and jets to attack. Delusional if one believe in this.
 
Pakistan as it is not going anywhere. With the security situation, its hard to attract foriegn investment.

China is already a world leader in technology and will provide the much needed investment for Pakistan. Pakistanis will benefit from it at least in the short term.

Long term, China is not doing this for charity. This will help them easy access to middle east and the natural resources rich Balochistan. Which means they will make billions more while giving some millions to Pakistan. It can also surround India both from the East side and West Side. Pretty much a Checkmate. India will be forced to bow down and submit itself completely to China if everything goes China's way.

There is a great chance Pak will be red washed. Chinese will not tolerate religion in general and extremism is a no no for them. Will be interesting to see how a communist athiest China and Pak work together especially when China is spreading its tentacles all over Pak.

But this could be a blessing in disguise for Pak. China will curb religious extremism and do not go soft on extremists. They will lay the hammer if it harms their interests.

This could be a Jackpot for Pakistan if China goes on to overtake USA in the future. But if China fails or if its economy collapses, Pak will be in serious trouble.

Interesting decade a head for Pakistan.

If China economy collapses, the world will be in serious trouble.
 
never going to happen. China isn't sending ships and jets to attack. Delusional if one believe in this.


But they have already constructed Military-ready bases all around Sri lanka, Maldives and Philippines. Military superiority over the Indian ocean, south China sea etc are necessary for China to ensure their supply/export chains remain smooth .
 
Pakistan must use whatever opportunity for economic growth it can get . Hard earned money out of your own sweat will bring peace, as the fear of loosing all this progress will make everyone considerate. Not handouts to mullahs and fanatic groups like what the Sauds/US are doing .

But China's intentions are a concern in the whole of Asia. They seek to do to the world what Imperial Japan did to them . Its China's payback . .

India has been in a far better position to co-adopt Pakistan as the other regional power in the region with the proximity, cultural and linguistic advantage. Yet they haven't been able to even organise so much as a cricket tour and have looked to kill the game in Pakistan at every turn. Translate this to other sectors and there's not much there for Pakistan to be persuaded to go in that direction.

Pakistan has been in a precarious situation for the last few decades due to terrorism, religious fundamentalism and outside interference. A powerful partner like China will probably not only raise standards in the country, it will also deter outside interference which has proved detrimental.
 
Love how concerned our neighbor is for us. Really touching.

Obviously China is not doing it for charity and has a long term benefit for it to be carrying this. Duh!
 
India has been in a far better position to co-adopt Pakistan as the other regional power in the region with the proximity, cultural and linguistic advantage. Yet they haven't been able to even organise so much as a cricket tour and have looked to kill the game in Pakistan at every turn. Translate this to other sectors and there's not much there for Pakistan to be persuaded to go in that direction.

Pakistan has been in a precarious situation for the last few decades due to terrorism, religious fundamentalism and outside interference. A powerful partner like China will probably not only raise standards in the country, it will also deter outside interference which has proved detrimental.

That is the greatest tragedy of South Asia. But you know as well as me that the problems between the two countries is a golden goose that both the military and polity on both sides need to milk for decades to come, so putting it all on the sidelines in the name of progress was never a option .Especially with the relatioship see-sawing between occasional peace to all out war..
 
Love how concerned our neighbor is for us. Really touching.

Obviously China is not doing it for charity and has a long term benefit for it to be carrying this. Duh!

If you think Indians are concerned about Pak, you are mistaken.

India's concern is regarding China and its motives.

India does not care if Saudis or UK or France invest billions in Pak. But when China does this, it cannot go unnoticed.

Indians know what China is doing and it concerns them.
 
developed and stable pakistan is what south asia needs
hope pakistan acheive this as soon as possible
 
If only the Pakistanis can see what we Indians can clearly see...but alas they always doubt our well intentioned concerns and criticisms for them.
 
If you think Indians are concerned about Pak, you are mistaken.

India's concern is regarding China and its motives.

India does not care if Saudis or UK or France invest billions in Pak. But when China does this, it cannot go unnoticed.

Indians know what China is doing and it concerns them.

I am more concerned than you my friend. I dread the day when ping pong will replace cricket as Pakistan's national sport, and we will have to learn Mandarin to watch pathetic kung fu flicks instead of Bollywood films featuring dreamboat Khans.
 
The world will have to learn Mandarin sooner or later.Language of the future.
 
If I were Indian I would have a thousand reasons to be wary of CPEC and Pakistan's development overall, I'll try to capture some of them below:

1. An economically strong Pakistan will be in a stronger position to defend itself in case of conventional war. As things stand the Pakistani Army can only hold off an Indian attack for a period of three weeks after which our supplies will run out. (This is obviously assuming nukes aren't used and Pakistan and India are the only ones involved in the war)

2. Pakistan due to its much smaller population can achieve developed or even semi-developed status much more quickly than India. Remember the total number of critically poor in India is twice the total population of Pakistan. If India has a developed Pakistan on her backdoor then this may lead to social unrest and upheaval because right now the chest thumping Indians can be assuaged with the fact that all is not rosy in India but atleast we are better than Pakistan. Kashmiri Indians will also have more vigor in their independence movement to join a Pakistan that is doing economically better than India.

3. If China has stakes in Pakistan (and such huge stakes) any aggression from India will mean a response from not only Pakistan but also China.

4. Chinese military tech is advancing at a breathtaking rate. They are building not one but two fifth generation fighters comparable to the F-22 raptor. Meanwhile India is still trying to figure out what screw goes where in the rickshaw called Tejas. Pakistan will have access to these Chinese weapons at concessional rates while India will have to buy expensive Western weapons. Also with an economically strong Pakistan the amount of weapons Pakistan can purchase will increase exponentially. Chinese also have a habit of transferring technology and we may see soon high-tech planes being produced in Pakistan.

5. India's military doctrine is to cut Pakistan in half by advancing along the Sindh-Punjab boundary and shutting off all communication between Northern Pakistan and Southern Pakistan. With CPEC there will be routes which connect Karachi with Peshawar and then to Pindi that bypass central Punjab and this will mean the Indian doctrine will be rendered ineffective.

6. A Pakistani economy on over-drive will mean more competition for India on the world economic stage. As things stand they are already in a stiff competition with China and definitely not winning.

7. CPEC entails building of all major dams that Pakistan needs for her survival. This will mean that India will not be in a position to "shut the tap" and Pakistan's future in terms of water needs will be secured.

8. The Chinese will build-up the Pakistani Navy which at the moment has the sole purpose of defending Karachi. It may mean that the Indians cannot impose a naval blockade on Pakistan, thus rendering another one of India's strategy useless.
 
If I were Indian I would have a thousand reasons to be wary of CPEC and Pakistan's development overall, I'll try to capture some of them below:

1. An economically strong Pakistan will be in a stronger position to defend itself in case of conventional war. As things stand the Pakistani Army can only hold off an Indian attack for a period of three weeks after which our supplies will run out. (This is obviously assuming nukes aren't used and Pakistan and India are the only ones involved in the war)

One thing I never understood was what would India do at the end of the three weeks when Pakistan's ability to defend itself ran out? Let's assume the scaremongering over nuclear war never played out.
 
One thing I never understood was what would India do at the end of the three weeks when Pakistan's ability to defend itself ran out? Let's assume the scaremongering over nuclear war never played out.

Takeover Pakistan and initiate mass genocide of non-compliant Pakistanis.
 
Takeover Pakistan and initiate mass genocide of non-compliant Pakistanis.

Nope.

At best India will take Pak Kashmir (That too a loooong shot) and that's it.

India had the opportunity before, but did not dare to do that.

India is not into mass genocide and other stuff. No interest in grabbing land from Pakistan. We are not China.
 
Nope.

At best India will take Pak Kashmir (That too a loooong shot) and that's it.

India had the opportunity before, but did not dare to do that.

India is not into mass genocide and other stuff. No interest in grabbing land from Pakistan. We are not China.

With the land comes the population. Imagine Kashmir on a larger scale and you can see why the idea of India swallowing up Pakistan is more useful to Pakistan Generals than it is to India's.
 
Oh no! I don't want Pak to become a Chinese colony! Then again it would still be better then become a Nawaz Sharif or Asif Ali Zardari's private firm! Of course the Sino-Pak combo concerns India.
 
We are better off at the mercy of Chinese than at the hands of Pakistani politicians. Thanks for caring for us India :salute
 
If not CPEC, Pakistans economic progress would have been dependent on the PMLN, and their financial "team" coming up with plans for development. And we know how smart Maryam Baji, Ahsan Iqbal & co are.
 
If Pakistanis Politicians, Generals can urge India to participate in CPEC and preach about benefits of joining it then why can't Indians talk about negative side of it ?
 
If Pakistanis Politicians, Generals can urge India to participate in CPEC and preach about benefits of joining it then why can't Indians talk about negative side of it ?

Who banned you from talking? There is a difference between doubting the intentions of someone and preventing people from talking about a subject.
 
One thing I never understood was what would India do at the end of the three weeks when Pakistan's ability to defend itself ran out? Let's assume the scaremongering over nuclear war never played out.

Do you still think India will want territory and further increase our already unmanageable population ? We sure as hell, aren't holding on to Kashmir for the need of land , or any territory for that matter.

I'd rather wish , in case your scenario plays out, we just let whoever from kashmir that wants to go to Pakistan, go there, secure our strategic points in the valley and then build some sort of wall and let Pakistan go their own way for good.

No genocides or mass murder of Muslims will occur. The war will kill a lot of people for sure. But once the war is done, you'd find that apart from a sizeable number of Idiots who still crave "Akhand Bharat" , most Indians realize that our nations have drifted too far apart for any thought of reunification of british India.

That could've easily been done in 1971, especially to the Bangladeshis, who have a far stronger cultural bond with India. Did we ever do that ?
 
Do you still think India will want territory and further increase our already unmanageable population ? We sure as hell, aren't holding on to Kashmir for the need of land , or any territory for that matter.

I'd rather wish , in case your scenario plays out, we just let whoever from kashmir that wants to go to Pakistan, go there, secure our strategic points in the valley and then build some sort of wall and let Pakistan go their own way for good.

No genocides or mass murder of Muslims will occur. The war will kill a lot of people for sure. But once the war is done, you'd find that apart from a sizeable number of Idiots who still crave "Akhand Bharat" , most Indians realize that our nations have drifted too far apart for any thought of reunification of british India.

That could've easily been done in 1971, especially to the Bangladeshis, who have a far stronger cultural bond with India. Did we ever do that ?
Bangladesh land is very small and its no use for india because of the huge population. CPEC Is my view and understanding is a fail project. The reason is the loan and really rubbish one sided deal by Pakistani politicians. We have NOT much to export But china have a lot to export and import and Will pay no port Money.
 
A good question from @cpt.rishwat what would india do in the event of a decisive victory against pakistan?

very simple, take over the fertile area of Punjab and Sindh, turn balochistan into a protectorate to exploit the mineral wealth and give kpk to afghanistan. Take the northern areas as a federal province and thus control all the rivers in the subcontinent pretty much. use kpk and balochistan as a buffer...then use the road network to monopolise trade with central asia. India would become a global power within 5-10 years of defeating us..the genocide part would be a silent one.
 
Bangladesh land is very small and its no use for india because of the huge population. CPEC Is my view and understanding is a fail project. The reason is the loan and really rubbish one sided deal by Pakistani politicians. We have NOT much to export But china have a lot to export and import and Will pay no port Money.

Pak is only doing to protect itself from India's military in case of war.

By involving China, Pak knows that if India attacks them, China will have to intervene to protect their interests. So it becomes kind of Check mate for India as India will never dare to enter into a war with China.

Win-Win for Pak.
 
China is such a bully investing billions in infrastructure when no one else wants, making Pak an important geo political player in the revival of the Silk road - the most important development in world history since the Portuguese first discovered maritime roads to by pass the Islamic world, in the 14th century -, such a demonic entity, I just hope it could give aid to its überhonest politicians and drone the populace while being an ally on paper.
 
China is such a bully investing billions in infrastructure when no one else wants, making Pak an important geo political player in the revival of the Silk road - the most important development in world history since the Portuguese first discovered maritime roads to by pass the Islamic world, in the 14th century -, such a demonic entity, I just hope it could give aid to its überhonest politicians and drone the populace while being an ally on paper.

China will drone too if terrorists start attacking their interests.
 
A good question from @cpt.rishwat what would india do in the event of a decisive victory against pakistan?

very simple, take over the fertile area of Punjab and Sindh, turn balochistan into a protectorate to exploit the mineral wealth and give kpk to afghanistan. Take the northern areas as a federal province and thus control all the rivers in the subcontinent pretty much. use kpk and balochistan as a buffer...then use the road network to monopolise trade with central asia. India would become a global power within 5-10 years of defeating us..the genocide part would be a silent one.

Makes you wonder if all the advantages are there as you say, why haven't they done it already?
 
China will drone too if terrorists start attacking their interests.

There have been talks since aeons of Uyghur Islamists receiving formal help from some corners of Pakistan. If they wanted to "act", they could have done it more than a decade ago.
 
There have been talks since aeons of Uyghur Islamists receiving formal help from some corners of Pakistan. If they wanted to "act", they could have done it more than a decade ago.

China is not going to drone its own territory. China has curbed Uyghur Islamists the way only China could do. They let Hun Chinese settle in Uyghur lands and balanced out the population equation to almost 50-50%. No unrest there like you see in Kashmir.

Let the TTP or some group attack China's ships or workers or industries, you will see that China will drone them.

At least US was paying and droning. China will not even pay to drone.
 
There are already quite a few major projects in progress under CPEC, if I am not mistaken...



Full documentary is there as well



I do not fully understand the depth and breath of CPEC ramification, but Pakistan can get all the help they need to lift themselves up from the 30-40 years of not so fruitful relationships with Oil rich Arab countries or west, in most case we have been their dumping ground, mostly we got trash from them...

Its better to build dams and roads then Madrassas or keep buying stuff for the God Dam Army. 40 years of investment in Army and Madrassas has not taken as anywhere, we cannot continue to invest in those ventures. We need to distance ourselves from those relationship with Oil rich Arabs.

CPEC is atleast an economic venture not religious or military one. At the same time we need more information and open dialogue about this within the nation. Its a pretty big undertaking, its better to understand the details now then when you are too deep into the project like any other transaction, you want to know lot more upfront!!
 
China is not going to drone its own territory. China has curbed Uyghur Islamists the way only China could do. They let Hun Chinese settle in Uyghur lands and balanced out the population equation to almost 50-50%. No unrest there like you see in Kashmir.

Let the TTP or some group attack China's ships or workers or industries, you will see that China will drone them.

At least US was paying and droning. China will not even pay to drone.

At the moment they haven't done anything nearly comparable to what you're suggesting, so you have all rights to write sci-fi but please do consider that geopolitics is a bit more complex.

On one hand China is putting billions to build infrastructure and economically connect Pakistan with the wider region while the US has done nothing but to throw money at the corrupt élite (a neo colonial method used in Africa).

That's what's happening right now.

Now the day China actually uses drones I'll ring you back.
 
At the moment they haven't done anything nearly comparable to what you're suggesting, so you have all rights to write sci-fi but please do consider that geopolitics is a bit more complex.

On one hand China is putting billions to build infrastructure and economically connect Pakistan with the wider region while the US has done nothing but to throw money at the corrupt élite (a neo colonial method used in Africa).

That's what's happening right now.

Now the day China actually uses drones I'll ring you back.

Hard to believe Chinese Govt for me. To me they are land grabbers and bullies. May be they are doing with good intentions. Only time will tell.

What is certain is, nothing will stop Chinese from doing things the way they envision. They don't give 2 hoots to what others think.
 
Hard to believe Chinese Govt for me. To me they are land grabbers and bullies. May be they are doing with good intentions. Only time will tell.

What is certain is, nothing will stop Chinese from doing things the way they envision. They don't give 2 hoots to what others think.

Yes they're land grabbers, heard a lot about how they took lands from America to Oceania to impose Chinese racial supremacism (also called Nazism).

You're also right that they don't give whatever to what others think, as we saw in their invasion of Iraq by selling cat **** as WMD to the world.

History is there for all to contemplate on the evilness of the Chinese.
 
But they have already constructed Military-ready bases all around Sri lanka, Maldives and Philippines. Military superiority over the Indian ocean, south China sea etc are necessary for China to ensure their supply/export chains remain smooth .

And how does this translate into taking over the world ? Providing security to their shipping route is totally different than trying to take over the military.
 
A good question from @cpt.rishwat what would india do in the event of a decisive victory against pakistan?

very simple, take over the fertile area of Punjab and Sindh, turn balochistan into a protectorate to exploit the mineral wealth and give kpk to afghanistan. Take the northern areas as a federal province and thus control all the rivers in the subcontinent pretty much. use kpk and balochistan as a buffer...then use the road network to monopolise trade with central asia. India would become a global power within 5-10 years of defeating us..the genocide part would be a silent one.

Makes you wonder if all the advantages are there as you say, why haven't they done it already?

There were enough opportunities for us to go on full offensive in past wars (1971) and push for the things you mentioned. Did we even TRY to do that ? These things weren't even part of our war strategies.

A genocide of a 400 Million strong nation will have colossal global consequences, and this war will drain a lot of our resources too. Making us weaker . That's not considering the hate we'd get from the muslim world in the name of "ummah" and a colossal increase in funding/support for Islamic extremism in Indian states.

India / Pak have a greater chance of MAD than your scenario .
 
And how does this translate into taking over the world ? Providing security to their shipping route is totally different than trying to take over the military.

If your idea of providing security is building military bases in another country's territorial waters or very close to them then that is an issue.
 
Makes you wonder if all the advantages are there as you say, why haven't they done it already?

capability, geopolitical situation and nukes. They are trying very hard to neutralise our nukes. Once they have done that the game will truly begin.
 
There were enough opportunities for us to go on full offensive in past wars (1971) and push for the things you mentioned. Did we even TRY to do that ? These things weren't even part of our war strategies.

A genocide of a 400 Million strong nation will have colossal global consequences, and this war will drain a lot of our resources too. Making us weaker . That's not considering the hate we'd get from the muslim world in the name of "ummah" and a colossal increase in funding/support for Islamic extremism in Indian states.

India / Pak have a greater chance of MAD than your scenario .

just because they werent part of your war strategies in 71 doesnt mean things will be the same in future.
71 in the west was another stalemate and contrary to the hype Pakistan did manage to keep the west intact and defend territory. If we lose our nukes, we will not be able to do the same a second time. India will never attack unless and until it has major international backing. This includes logistics, security council neutralisation, American "permission" and support from others. The BN (indian navy) is a formidable threat for us and if put into full action against us, a pakistan without nukes will capitulate. India wants to dictate terms thats its goal. They dont want to kill or commit a genocide, they simply want the best bits and want to cut off the rest and leave it for whatever is left of a vassal Pakistan to deal with.

India is perfectly capable of absorbing some refugees into the punjab and letting the rest die on the other side of the border.It is also perfectly capable of absorbing some terror attacks too. a non nuke pakistan that is reliant on India and is toothless and subservient is entirely possible..
 
Have to say this was a brilliant thread by the OP.

This is in fact what is happening. For those who haven't read the latest Dawn article on this (Exclusive: CPEC master plan revealed) I'd highly recommend you go and read it. Link below

https://www.dawn.com/news/1333101
 
capability, geopolitical situation and nukes. They are trying very hard to neutralise our nukes. Once they have done that the game will truly begin.

Again, I find myself going back to your post where you say that by annexing Pakistan, India will become a global power withing 10 years. I suppose the million dollar question is: Is being part of the current Pakistan a better alternative than being part of a global power as Indians? I'm sure it is, but no one is making a very good case for it right now. This might well be the reason why people are kind of 'meh' about becoming an alleged colony of China.
 
Again, I find myself going back to your post where you say that by annexing Pakistan, India will become a global power withing 10 years. I suppose the million dollar question is: Is being part of the current Pakistan a better alternative than being part of a global power as Indians? I'm sure it is, but no one is making a very good case for it right now. This might well be the reason why people are kind of 'meh' about becoming an alleged colony of China.

sorry yaar but you need to read it again..What i said was they are interested in the fertile plains of the punjab, they will probably look to occupy Guru nanaks birthplace and areas around it, they will try and get Thar too, and access to the indus. They are not really interested in KP, they are not interested in occupying balochistan and some other areas of punjab, they will want gilgit, and parts of the northern areas..they will pick and choose what they want and install vassals elsewhere. lahore is a big prize. Its not just about conquest its about PR too. They will want to beam pics of Sikh soldiers liberating "Nankana" sahib, former immigrants returning to their ancestral homes and hugging neighbours they havent seen in years, and then show pakistani soldiers surrendering or being marched to POW camps for processing. etc etc..and finally flying the tricolour over Lahore fort!
 
If your idea of providing security is building military bases in another country's territorial waters or very close to them then that is an issue.

Issue for who? India? India has a long way to go to be any where close to China.
 
Issue for who? India? India has a long way to go to be any where close to China.

Of course China is stronger militarily. But what does that mean ? We should bend over backwards and let them control our seas ?
 
Of course China is stronger militarily. But what does that mean ? We should bend over backwards and let them control our seas ?

No it means that you should stop poking your nose in to Sino-Pak affairs and sucking up to Dalai Lama as well. India can keep crying about CPEC running through so called POK that makes no practical difference to the situation at all. We will just point out the atrocities in IOK.
 
sorry yaar but you need to read it again..What i said was they are interested in the fertile plains of the punjab, they will probably look to occupy Guru nanaks birthplace and areas around it, they will try and get Thar too, and access to the indus. They are not really interested in KP, they are not interested in occupying balochistan and some other areas of punjab, they will want gilgit, and parts of the northern areas..they will pick and choose what they want and install vassals elsewhere. lahore is a big prize. Its not just about conquest its about PR too. They will want to beam pics of Sikh soldiers liberating "Nankana" sahib, former immigrants returning to their ancestral homes and hugging neighbours they havent seen in years, and then show pakistani soldiers surrendering or being marched to POW camps for processing. etc etc..and finally flying the tricolour over Lahore fort!

I hope I'm no longer alive if that day ever comes.
 
If you think Indians are concerned about Pak, you are mistaken.

India's concern is regarding China and its motives.

India does not care if Saudis or UK or France invest billions in Pak. But when China does this, it cannot go unnoticed.

Indians know what China is doing and it concerns them.

India's concern is that Cpec passes through PoK.
 
Its not a bad thing really , Pak has everything to gain from this I wudnt care what the critics say and give my all to make this a success . The only ones who can mess this up is Pakistanis themselves .

Most people in India would agree that Pak's economic progress is very good news for us .
 
If I were Indian I would have a thousand reasons to be wary of CPEC and Pakistan's development overall, I'll try to capture some of them below:

1. An economically strong Pakistan will be in a stronger position to defend itself in case of conventional war. As things stand the Pakistani Army can only hold off an Indian attack for a period of three weeks after which our supplies will run out. (This is obviously assuming nukes aren't used and Pakistan and India are the only ones involved in the war)

2. Pakistan due to its much smaller population can achieve developed or even semi-developed status much more quickly than India. Remember the total number of critically poor in India is twice the total population of Pakistan. If India has a developed Pakistan on her backdoor then this may lead to social unrest and upheaval because right now the chest thumping Indians can be assuaged with the fact that all is not rosy in India but atleast we are better than Pakistan. Kashmiri Indians will also have more vigor in their independence movement to join a Pakistan that is doing economically better than India.

3. If China has stakes in Pakistan (and such huge stakes) any aggression from India will mean a response from not only Pakistan but also China.

4. Chinese military tech is advancing at a breathtaking rate. They are building not one but two fifth generation fighters comparable to the F-22 raptor. Meanwhile India is still trying to figure out what screw goes where in the rickshaw called Tejas. Pakistan will have access to these Chinese weapons at concessional rates while India will have to buy expensive Western weapons. Also with an economically strong Pakistan the amount of weapons Pakistan can purchase will increase exponentially. Chinese also have a habit of transferring technology and we may see soon high-tech planes being produced in Pakistan.

5. India's military doctrine is to cut Pakistan in half by advancing along the Sindh-Punjab boundary and shutting off all communication between Northern Pakistan and Southern Pakistan. With CPEC there will be routes which connect Karachi with Peshawar and then to Pindi that bypass central Punjab and this will mean the Indian doctrine will be rendered ineffective.

6. A Pakistani economy on over-drive will mean more competition for India on the world economic stage. As things stand they are already in a stiff competition with China and definitely not winning.

7. CPEC entails building of all major dams that Pakistan needs for her survival. This will mean that India will not be in a position to "shut the tap" and Pakistan's future in terms of water needs will be secured.

8. The Chinese will build-up the Pakistani Navy which at the moment has the sole purpose of defending Karachi. It may mean that the Indians cannot impose a naval blockade on Pakistan, thus rendering another one of India's strategy useless.

A lot of assumptions here .
 
Hard to believe Chinese Govt for me. To me they are land grabbers and bullies. May be they are doing with good intentions. Only time will tell.

What is certain is, nothing will stop Chinese from doing things the way they envision. They don't give 2 hoots to what others think.

Not really they have invested a so much money in Africa too , even India has so its not different to any other country , but Pak doesnt really have to care at this point .
Am sorry , there is no other way Pakistan can grow economically , no offence but they need outside help . you just have to look at how PCB is run . Basically clueless , so may be Chinese can trigger that .
 
Terrorists will be dealt with.Their masterminds too.

Exactly ALL terrorists should get what they really deserve. Not sure why there is so much sympathy for a terrorist called Kahlbhushan Yadav? Fine if you say we can't be 100% sure if he is terrorist but how can you be 100% sure he is 100% innocent?

Hope fully Kalbhushan terrorist and his masterminds will suffer the fate they really deserve.
 
Have to say this was a brilliant thread by the OP.

This is in fact what is happening. For those who haven't read the latest Dawn article on this (Exclusive: CPEC master plan revealed) I'd highly recommend you go and read it. Link below

https://www.dawn.com/news/1333101

An interesting recent update from the man who unveiled the Protocols of the Elders of Sin :

THE Long-Term Plan (LTP) document for CPEC was developed by the China Development Bank and finalised by December 2015. One year later, on December 29, 2016, it was finalised by both sides in the sixth Joint Cooperation Committee meeting held in Karachi. Minister for Planning and Development, Mr Ahsan Iqbal, is claiming that along the way significant revisions were made to the plan, to the point of rendering the original one “redundant”.

From what can be understood, since much of this has been kept secret, the revisions that have been made relate mainly to the transport plan, which was developed by the Pakistani side, and the other areas of cooperation identified in Dawn’s story were largely untouched. We will know how much changed in the plan once it is made public, which the minister has committed to doing within a month. He made the commitment on Shahzeb Khanzada’s show on the night of May 16, and must be made to stand by it.
(...)
Many people are in fact impressed with the scope of the plan, and although there are reservations about some of the items in it (such as visa-free entry for Chinese nationals with no reciprocal measure for Pakistanis) on the whole it could turn out to be a very favourable development for Pakistan.
(...)
There are seven areas listed: connectivity (roads and fibre optic), energy, industry, agriculture (to include “modern agriculture demonstration zones”), tourism (with two centres in Gwadar and Karachi, and five zones from Keti Bander to Jiwani), livelihoods, and finance.

The section on livelihoods appears to be designed specifically to bring “construction of public transport system” into the CPEC ambit. The emphasis on roads, energy and livelihoods appears to have come from the Pakistani side. The emphasis on industry, agriculture, tourism and finance has come from the Chinese side.
(...)
Let me emphasise that nothing said here is to suggest in any way that CPEC is a bad thing. I do not believe that. But people have a right to know what exactly is being agreed to under its ambit.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1333753/setting-the-record-straight

Most people in India would agree that Pak's economic progress is very good news for us .

That's so obviously untrue.
 
Of course China is stronger militarily. But what does that mean ? We should bend over backwards and let them control our seas ?

Not just militarily but economically also. India can only moan and groan about it and no one in the world bet the eye.

Respective countries are allowing China to open up their base but again what can India do beside moaning? Absolutely nothing.
 
What people are forgeting is, that Indians are not woried about Pakistan getting benefits from cpec. But they are naturally worried that the Chinese in fact do not have good intentions. China never doles out freebies unless it has something to gain from it. That is just how China works. I read somewhere that China is actually “leasing” the power infrastructure to Pakistan and will collect fees until it is paid off and Pakistan owns it.

My take on this..

China has an established track record of arriving much like a horde of locusts and completely wiping out the local indigenous industry. The floodgates to Pakistan have been opened to the Chinese and it is just a matter of time before Chinese goods do the Walmart-effect on Pakistani industry and destroy what is left of it. Perhaps Pakistan could learn a lesson or two from neighbouring India’s "Make in India” initiative to not only sustain local industry but also master strategic technology in-house.


Pakistan’s economic sovereignty is essentially mortgaged to China - The CPEC is based on a $46 Billion loan that Pakistan has taken from China. It is not an FDI that China will recover from the proceeds of the CPEC. The success of CPEC depends on China’s economy remaining successful and free of global sanctions to freely move its goods to the rest of the world. This certainty has recently turned suspect under the new US administration. What happens when the CPEC fails to generate the proverbial golden eggs? How does Pakistan propose to repay this loan?

Military sovereignty is very much at risk - China has sent a ship and other military assets to “safeguard” its investment. If the port is in Pakistan and the ships are docked in Pakistan’s territorial waters, what is China protecting its investments against? It is doubtful that a boatload of armed terrorists will arrive from Mumbai to indiscriminately shoot the Chinese or Pakistanis! Everyone knows that India will not fight until its provoked. To a casual observer, it seems an awful lot like China is setting up a small naval base in Pakistan to militarily control this part of the world.

China is lending some money to Pakistan in the name of developing Pakistan. They are not lending that money in cash. They will build cargo transportation network out of that money. The network will primarily be used by the Chinese for transporting goods from western China to Gwadar in Arabian sea. This so called development of Pakistan is actually a win-win situation for China and lose-lose for Pakistan. China is building the roads for it’s own use, but is making Pakistan pay for it. Show me a better act of smartness.

If Pakistanis were any smarter they would have asked China to build the roads off their own money and pay them toll for the lifetime with rights to use the roads by Pakistani people. Let me tell you, China would have still agreed.

As Pakistan falters at paying back the loan/interest it will be forced to obey China in a way hurtful to even Pakistanis void of any self-respect.
China may begin arm-twisting Pakistan to get things done in the way it wants. Not too long before there was a demonstration in Mirijjawila, Sri Lanka against Chinese arm-twisting.

I need to research more, but hopefully CPEC will be a success story and take Pakistan towards self-reliance, we won't know until a couple of years.
 
What people are forgeting is, that Indians are not woried about Pakistan getting benefits from cpec. But they are naturally worried that the Chinese in fact do not have good intentions. China never doles out freebies unless it has something to gain from it. That is just how China works.


It's how the rest of the world works as well. Don't worry about it, not your problem.
 
Exactly ALL terrorists should get what they really deserve. Not sure why there is so much sympathy for a terrorist called Kahlbhushan Yadav? Fine if you say we can't be 100% sure if he is terrorist but how can you be 100% sure he is 100% innocent?

Hope fully Kalbhushan terrorist and his masterminds will suffer the fate they really deserve.

Give him consular access and him have a fair open trial.That can decide this.

The name is Kulbhusan.
 
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‘Huashang’ first-ever Chinese language newspaper of Pakistan

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https://www.dawn.com/news/1334323
 
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