Best ever batsmen in facing short pitched bowling at top pace?

[Harsh Thakor]

This is my list in order of merit of batsmen who played short pitched bowling at express pace best.

1. Viv Richards
2. Ian Chappell
3. Rohan Kanhai
4. Inzamam Ul Haq
5. Majid Khan
6. Mohinder Amarnath (at his best)
7. Martin Crowe
8. Alan Lamb
9. Javed Miandad
10. Gundappa Vishwanath
11. Sunil Gavaskar
12. Clive Lloyd /David Gower

No batsman with better reflexes than Viv who played great paceman like a spinners,like in WSC supertests and down under in 1979-80. Ian Chappell was the ultimate man in a crisis, playing the rising ball with great judgement. Rohan Kanhai was more inventive than anyone with his unique roti shot, falling to the ground. Inzamam and Majid had razor sharp reflexes and could even play a bouncer as though playing with a child. Miandad had supreme craft and virtually no fear in playing bouncers so close to his face, reminding you of a tennis player. Amarnath at his best was at the very top, as in the Caribbean and Pakistan in 1982-83. Alan Lamb was master in manipulation. Vishwanath was the ultimate epitome of wrist play. Gavaskar was technical perfection personified. Lloyd played Lillee and Thomson better than anyone in 1975-76, at their fastest. Martin Crowe and David Gower had more time to tackle disconcerting bounce than almost everyone.

Revised list

After reading all the viewpoints this is my revised list. I value the feedback from PP posters.

1. Viv Richards
2. Ricky Ponting
3. Ian Chappell
4. Majid Khan
5. Inzamam Ul Haq
6. Graham Gooch
7. Rohan Kanhai
8. Colin Cowdrey
9. Mohinder Amarnath
10. Ted Dexter
11. Alec Stewart
12. Sunil Gavaskar
13. David Gower
14. Mark Waugh
15. Alan Lamb

I have reinstated yesteryear heroes like Cowdrey and Dexter who were as combative as anyone against short pitched stuff. Remember Cowdrey taking apart Jeff Thomson at his fastest in 1975 and Dexter tearing apart Wes Hall in 1963. I have instead chosen Ponting, Wasim Raja, Alec Stewart, & Mark Waugh, and dropped players like Miandad, Martin Crowe & even Vishwanath. In the case of players such as Javed, Steve Waugh and Wasim Raja it was more about sheer courage than skill against the short ball.

 

[Mohsin Kazmi]

Where would you rate Wasim Raja who had an excellent record against West Indies. Graham Gooch is another name that's missing in your list. Don't remember anyone played West Indian pace quartet better than Gooch

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Absolutely correct but I am only analysing tackling the short ball.

 

[mon858]

I would add Richie Richardson to this list. He was so comfortable at playing top pace short pitch that he would even play them without helmet with a floppy hat on only. Recall him playing some good hooks and pulls to wasim and waqar at their peak.

 

[Robert]

Gooch is a massive omission - played WI quicks better than Lamb, and for longer.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Gooch is a massive omission - played WI quicks better than Lamb, and for longer.

A genius no doubt and close to the best against pace but was he brilliant against the short ball?Anyway you have a valid point.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

If Gooch was great against a bouncer then I made an error in excluding him.No doubt the best opener arguably ever against express pace.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Gooch is a massive omission - played WI quicks better than Lamb, and for longer.

Otherwise liked my choices and order?

 

[umarf76]

I would add Richie Richardson to this list. He was so comfortable at playing top pace short pitch that he would even play them without helmet with a floppy hat on only. Recall him playing some good hooks and pulls to wasim and waqar at their peak.

Richie was one of the best. Some others.

Roy Fredricks. Good hooker. Unfortunately out hit wicket in the 1975 WC
Ponting
Our own Imran Khan
Gavaskar
Amarnath
Robin Smith
Alan Lamb
Wasim Raja
Majid Khan
Arvinda Desilva ... anyone remember him hooking for three massive sixes in his first hundred in 1984?
Gordon Greendige

 

[umarf76]

This is my list in order of merit of batsmen who played short pitched bowling at express pace best.

1.Viv Richards
2.Ian Chappell
3.Rohan Kanhai
4.Inzamam Ul Haq
5.Majid Khan
6.Mohinder Amarnath(at his best)
7.Martin Crowe
8.Alan Lamb .
9.Javed Miandad
10.Gundapppa Vishwanath
11.Sunil Gavaskar
12.Clive Lloyd /David Gower




No batsman with better reflexes than Viv who played great paceman like a spinners,like in WSC supertests and down under in 1979-80.Ian Chappell was the ultimate man in a crisis ,playing the rising ball with great judgement.Rohan Kanhai was more inventive than anyone with his unique roti shot,falling to the ground.Inzamam and Majid had razor sharp reflexes and could even play a bouncer as though playing with a child.Miandad had supreme craft and virtually no fear in playing bouncers so close to his face,reminding you of a tennis player.Amarnath at his best was at the very top,as in the Carribean and Pakistan in 1982-83.Alan Lamb was master in manipulation.Vishwanath was the ultimate epitome of wrist play.Gavaskar was technical perfection personified.Lloyd played Lillee and Thomson better than anyone in 1975-76 ,at their fastest.Martin Crowe and David Gower had more time to tackle disconcerting bounce than almost everyone.

David Gower was not an express hooker. He would sometimes play that lazy pull shot.
Not sure Javed should be in the list. He was brave and played some fine hundreds vs. West Indies in 88

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Richie was one of the best. Some others.

Roy Fredricks. Good hooker. Unfortunately out hit wicket in the 1975 WC
Ponting
Our own Imran Khan
Gavaskar
Amarnath
Robin Smith
Alan Lamb
Wasim Raja
Majid Khan
Arvinda Desilva ... anyone remember him hooking for three massive sixes in his first hundred in 1984?
Gordon Greendige

great list.well done.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

David Gower was not an express hooker. He would sometimes play that lazy pull shot.
Not sure Javed should be in the list. He was brave and played some fine hundreds vs. West Indies in 88

Remember how Javed never ducked to short balls and played them with his bat right next to his face.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Richie was one of the best. Some others.

Roy Fredricks. Good hooker. Unfortunately out hit wicket in the 1975 WC
Ponting
Our own Imran Khan
Gavaskar
Amarnath
Robin Smith
Alan Lamb
Wasim Raja
Majid Khan
Arvinda Desilva ... anyone remember him hooking for three massive sixes in his first hundred in 1984?
Gordon Greendige

Why no Viv Richards,Inzamam , Gooch or even Martin Crowe? No doubt still a great list.

 

[King_Kohli]

Rohit Sharma at present.

 

[Robert]

Otherwise liked my choices and order?

Miandad didn’t have a good record against WI, and Gower just got the one century.

Tell you who Marshall rated most - Border.

Get Roy Fredericks in who hit that blistering 150 against Lillee and Thomson.

 

[umarf76]

Why no Viv Richards,Inzamam , Gooch or even Martin Crowe? No doubt still a great list.

Sure Viv Richards would be number 1. I was only intending to complement the original thread and Richard was already on the list.

Also I misunderstood the thread. I listed players who were greater pullers and hookers and not necessarily top pace bowling players.

Gooch and Martin Crowe were top players of pace but not great hookers and therefore I did not have them on. However I agree they were one of the best players of pace.

About Inzamam, having followed his career closely he was a disappointment to me. I recall him playing some incredible hook shots early in his career but as time went on he did not play many. i dont really recall him dominating fast bowlers 1996 onwards.

 

[umarf76]

Why no Viv Richards,Inzamam , Gooch or even Martin Crowe? No doubt still a great list.

1970 and 1980s Richards was the best player of pace followed I believe by Gavaskar.
Arvinda De Silva in my view was best player of pace in the 90s along with Richardson.
2000s has to be Ponting.
2011 to 2020? not sure who would be number 1 ...

 

[umarf76]

Remember how Javed never ducked to short balls and played them with his bat right next to his face.

Javed was the Mohammed Ali of cricket. He knew how to score runs and last few years relied just on his cricketing acumen.

Imran Khan explained it in his autobiography that Javed from 76 to 84 was a really fit guy who was a great fielder as well. Then he started to gain weight and his fitness was not so good. From 87/88 onwards he started to lose his reflexes a bit and started to rely on his cricketing intelligence. He always had an odd technique vulnerable to LBWs but he worked around it. He knew how to make runs. His hundreds in 1988 vs. the Windies were more about bravery and guts than anything else. He hardly did anything of significance from 1989 till the 1992 world cup. After that he had a memorable England tour and that was it.
In summary what I am saying is that he was not the greatest player of pace but found a way to tackle and make runs. There will never be another Miandad - the true fighter.

 

[Gilly]

Having watched cricket since the early 70's the two best standout batsmen against short pitched bowling are V Richards and R Ponting, these have been the best from the cricket I have watched.

 

[Junaids]

Jimmy Amarnath.

Nobody else is within a million miles of him.

He was more than twice as good as the next best.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Sure Viv Richards would be number 1. I was only intending to complement the original thread and Richard was already on the list.

Also I misunderstood the thread. I listed players who were greater pullers and hookers and not necessarily top pace bowling players.

Gooch and Martin Crowe were top players of pace but not great hookers and therefore I did not have them on. However I agree they were one of the best players of pace.

About Inzamam, having followed his career closely he was a disappointment to me. I recall him playing some incredible hook shots early in his career but as time went on he did not play many. i dont really recall him dominating fast bowlers 1996 onwards.

Complement your most analytical answer,Basically the accent of my thread was on negotiating the short ball and not pace bowling overall.I admired the way Gavaskar fended off short balls.I made an era for not in stating Gooch.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Javed was the Mohammed Ali of cricket. He knew how to score runs and last few years relied just on his cricketing acumen.

Imran Khan explained it in his autobiography that Javed from 76 to 84 was a really fit guy who was a great fielder as well. Then he started to gain weight and his fitness was not so good. From 87/88 onwards he started to lose his reflexes a bit and started to rely on his cricketing intelligence. He always had an odd technique vulnerable to LBWs but he worked around it. He knew how to make runs. His hundreds in 1988 vs. the Windies were more about bravery and guts than anything else. He hardly did anything of significance from 1989 till the 1992 world cup. After that he had a memorable England tour and that was it.
In summary what I am saying is that he was not the greatest player of pace but found a way to tackle and make runs. There will never be another Miandad - the true fighter.

Great analysis

 

[Junaids]

Amarnath. The greatest.

 

[Junaids]

Javed was the Mohammed Ali of cricket. He knew how to score runs and last few years relied just on his cricketing acumen.

Imran Khan explained it in his autobiography that Javed from 76 to 84 was a really fit guy who was a great fielder as well. Then he started to gain weight and his fitness was not so good. From 87/88 onwards he started to lose his reflexes a bit and started to rely on his cricketing intelligence. He always had an odd technique vulnerable to LBWs but he worked around it. He knew how to make runs. His hundreds in 1988 vs. the Windies were more about bravery and guts than anything else. He hardly did anything of significance from 1989 till the 1992 world cup. After that he had a memorable England tour and that was it.
In summary what I am saying is that he was not the greatest player of pace but found a way to tackle and make runs. There will never be another Miandad - the true fighter.

That’s what LATE Muhammad Ali was: a pretty good boxer who relied upon toughness and strategy to conceal his weaknesses.

But EARLY Muhammad Ali had incredible movement and hand speed, and was irresistible.

I’d say that Viv Richards was more like Ali.

 

[Robert]

Richie was one of the best. Some others.

Roy Fredricks. Good hooker. Unfortunately out hit wicket in the 1975 WC
Ponting
Our own Imran Khan
Gavaskar
Amarnath
Robin Smith
Alan Lamb
Wasim Raja
Majid Khan
Arvinda Desilva ... anyone remember him hooking for three massive sixes in his first hundred in 1984?
Gordon Greendige

I would disqualify most of the West Indians because they did not play much express pace. Lillee, Thommo, Imran, that was about it.

Imran averaged 27 with the bat against WI.

Ponting rarely faced much good quick stuff.

Robin Smith I would agree with.

Lamb averaged 36 against WI despite five centuries.

More recently I would advance Alec Stewart, who smashed WI in their back yard and Waqar & Wasim at home.

Facing really good quick bowling is very hard and few batsmen have consistently done well.

 

[Majestic]

Sunil Gavaskar

 

[umarf76]

I would disqualify most of the West Indians because they did not play much express pace. Lillee, Thommo, Imran, that was about it.

Imran averaged 27 with the bat against WI.

Ponting rarely faced much good quick stuff.

Robin Smith I would agree with.

Lamb averaged 36 against WI despite five centuries.

More recently I would advance Alec Stewart, who smashed WI in their back yard and Waqar & Wasim at home.

Facing really good quick bowling is very hard and few batsmen have consistently done well.

Not sure I agree. There were plenty of fast bowlers around in 80s and 90s outside the west indies. Lille Thompson, Imran and Hadlee and then there was county cricket as well.

Imran may have averaged 27 vs. WI but his batting developed after around 1987 and he averaged 50 as a batsman. It is not always about averages.

Too much analysis from you just on averages. Lamb made his hundreds in 5/0 blackwashes and his 36 average is quite significant when playing the windies.

Alec Stewart never smashed anyone. Only was a good bat for two years and then become mediocre.

 

[subshakerz]

Um, how could you not have Steve Waugh on that list? In the mid-90s, you had Ambrose, Walsh, Waqar, Wasim, Donald and Pollock at their peaks. Please check his record against them. He is one of the first names I thought of. Mark Waugh was not far behind. Also consider Allan Border.

 

[subshakerz]

Steve Waugh was absolutely fearless against the short ball. He wouldnt give his wicket. Check the clips below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d8sJReRJt8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGBS-HwG55s

 

[Bhaijaan]

What defines a great player of short pitched bowling?

Someone who nullifies a potent pace attack for a days play of test cricket without attacking them or someone who hooks a couple of sixes but gets out without getting the job done.

As sexy as pulling and hooking is, most of the times the best way to deal with a tactical barrage of short pitch bowling is by disengagement.

Rohit Sharma / Pujara is a good example to have a debate on this topic.

 

[gazza619]

Sehwag was brutal and is actually my favourite as I watched him very closely at his peak.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Sehwag was brutal and is actually my favourite as I watched him very closely at his peak.

Against bounce, he was very limited.

Overall though, what a player!

 

[Robert]

Not sure I agree. There were plenty of fast bowlers around in 80s and 90s outside the west indies. Lille Thompson, Imran and Hadlee and then there was county cricket as well.

Imran may have averaged 27 vs. WI but his batting developed after around 1987 and he averaged 50 as a batsman. It is not always about averages.

Too much analysis from you just on averages. Lamb made his hundreds in 5/0 blackwashes and his 36 average is quite significant when playing the windies.

Alec Stewart never smashed anyone. Only was a good bat for two years and then become mediocre.

Lillee and Willis finished in 1984, Thommo was no longer quick after 1982 and barely played, Hadlee was fast medium by 1982, so WI faced very little real pace other than Imran.

We are talking about performances against extreme pace so Imran’s stat of 27 vs WI is the pertinent one, not the cherrypicked 50 average inflated by red ink. Honestly to hear some people talk you would think he batted like Miandad or Border. He didn’t. He got six centuries to their twenty-odd each.

If you don’t rate Stewart, read what Wasim said about him, to the effect that he would deliberately smash the new ball to get runs on the board before the reverse started.

 

[subshakerz]

No Sehwag was pretty decent against bounce, he did well in Australia in 2004 and 2008. He suffered against lateral movement which is why he sucked in NZ, SA and England.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I would disqualify most of the West Indians because they did not play much express pace. Lillee, Thommo, Imran, that was about it.

Imran averaged 27 with the bat against WI.

Ponting rarely faced much good quick stuff.

Robin Smith I would agree with.

Lamb averaged 36 against WI despite five centuries.

More recently I would advance Alec Stewart, who smashed WI in their back yard and Waqar & Wasim at home.

Facing really good quick bowling is very hard and few batsmen have consistently done well.

Ponting scored massively against the fastest bowler of that time and at the WACA no less. 156 against Harmison at his fastest. 105 vs peak Donald at MCG , 104 vs Ambrose and Walsh at Bridgetown 1999, 157 vs an attack that had Shane Bond, 144 against Gough and Caddick, 141 is Akhtar and Sami , 207 against an attack with Akhtar at MCG, 196 against an attack with Harmison, 101 & 99 against a rampant Dale Steyn in both innings of a match .

 

[subshakerz]

By the way, I rarely if ever saw Tendulkar struggle against bounce. He should be on that list too.

 

[Robert]

Ponting scored massively against the fastest bowler of that time and at the WACA no less. 156 against Harmison at his fastest. 105 vs peak Donald at MCG , 104 vs Ambrose and Walsh at Bridgetown 1999, 157 vs an attack that had Shane Bond, 144 against Gough and Caddick, 141 is Akhtar and Sami , 207 against an attack with Akhtar at MCG, 196 against an attack with Harmison, 101 & 99 against a rampant Dale Steyn in both innings of a match .

Hmm, not sure I would call Harmison a top class quick though he had his moments.

But I am advancing Stewart who averaged 46 against the top quicks of the nineties, which is about Ponting’s level against same, so fair enough.

 

[shaz619]

That’s what LATE Muhammad Ali was: a pretty good boxer who relied upon toughness and strategy to conceal his weaknesses.

But EARLY Muhammad Ali had incredible movement and hand speed, and was irresistible.

I’d say that Viv Richards was more like Ali.

I highly doubt any cricketer past their peak would have achieved what Ali did past his prime

 

[shaz619]

Kallis and Ponting deserve a mention to

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Hmm, not sure I would call Harmison a top class quick though he had his moments.

But I am advancing Stewart who averaged 46 against the top quicks of the nineties, which is about Ponting’s level against same, so fair enough.

Ponting has atleast twice the number of tons against attacks with genuine pacers than Stewart and also even when not scoring tons , he was still consistent .

Ponting was a far superior player of pace and bounce than Stewart ever was . Apart from you, I dont think anyone would ever support this assertion.

 

[Gilly]

Hmm, not sure I would call Harmison a top class quick though he had his moments.

But I am advancing Stewart who averaged 46 against the top quicks of the nineties, which is about Ponting’s level against same, so fair enough.

Statsguru shows Stewart averaged 33 against pace bowling, can I ask how you found the stats for him to average 46 against the top quicks in the nineties.

 

[Gilly]

Ponting has atleast twice the number of tons against attacks with genuine pacers than Stewart and also even when not scoring tons , he was still consistent .

Ponting was a far superior player of pace and bounce than Stewart ever was . Apart from you, I dont think anyone would ever support this assertion.

I can see where Robert is different to what I would say but its only because he would have watched cricket mostly played in England which is going to be a worlds apart from the cricket I watched in Australia. I'm fortunate to have watched cricket live at the WACA from the early seventies on.

 

[Junaids]

Sunil Gavaskar

Most of his runs in the West Indies were against an attack with no quick bowlers at all.

Roberts, Holding, Garner and Croft were still in school.

 

[Robert]

Ponting has atleast twice the number of tons against attacks with genuine pacers than Stewart and also even when not scoring tons , he was still consistent .

Ponting was a far superior player of pace and bounce than Stewart ever was . Apart from you, I dont think anyone would ever support this assertion.

Hmm, did Ponting keep wicket for 2/3 of his career?

What am I supposed to be asserting? That Stewart was as good as Ponting? Never said that. Said Stewart was an excellent opening batsman against pace. Have a look at who he got his centuries against - WI, Pakistan, SA.

 

[Robert]

Statsguru shows Stewart averaged 33 against pace bowling, can I ask how you found the stats for him to average 46 against the top quicks in the nineties.

33 against “pace bowling”? There’s no such filter.

Two tons in a match in Barbados, a 190 and 170 (and a carried bat) against Pakistan, 164 against Donald and Pollock (though the latter was batting at four while keeping).

Just looked. As opener and not keeping - 38 tests, eight centuries, average 45.98.

If you include his matches at #3 he gets another hundred in 46 tests and his average climbs to 46.5.

England messed up one of their great postwar batters by making him keep wicket. He often had to start cold against Warne and Murali which pulled his average down.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Statsguru shows Stewart averaged 33 against pace bowling, can I ask how you found the stats for him to average 46 against the top quicks in the nineties.

He averaged 44.64 as an opener during the nineties, which increased to 46 if he opened the batting and wasn't keeping wicket. There's no statsguru filter as far as I can find about runs scored against a particular type of bowler.

 

[PakLFC]

Brian Lara for me. Either he would hook with venom or just get under it with ease. Not too tall batsmen like Brian or Sunil Gavaskar played short pitched deliveries very well.

 

[Gilly]

33 against “pace bowling”? There’s no such filter.

Two tons in a match in Barbados, a 190 and 170 (and a carried bat) against Pakistan, 164 against Donald and Pollock (though the latter was batting at four while keeping).

Just looked. As opener and not keeping - 38 tests, eight centuries, average 45.98.

If you include his matches at #3 he gets another hundred in 46 tests and his average climbs to 46.5.

England messed up one of their great postwar batters by making him keep wicket. He often had to start cold against Warne and Murali which pulled his average down.

Stewarts statistics against pace bowling.

148inns 30bowled 55ct/Fielder 32ct/keeper 31LBW 33.72average 10ducks

 

[Robert]

Stewarts statistics against pace bowling.

148inns 30bowled 55ct/Fielder 32ct/keeper 31LBW 33.72average 10ducks

No such filter as “pace bowling” so no idea how you are arriving at this. Set the filters for opener / #3 when not keeping. Then you’ll capture his big performances against the top fast bowlers. You might not have seen these because he usually kept wicket and batted down the order in Australia - a criminal waste of a superb opening batsman.

 

[Gilly]

No such filter as “pace bowling” so no idea how you are arriving at this. Set the filters for opener / #3 when not keeping. Then you’ll capture his big performances against the top fast bowlers. You might not have seen these because he usually kept wicket and batted down the order in Australia - a criminal waste of a superb opening batsman.

If you go into advanced setting and select batting and dismissal summary it gives you stats for type of bowlers and the breakdown against each type of bowler.

When you posted Stewart averaged 46 against the best pace bowlers I thought that was a bit high and checked for myself and found it different and thats why I asked you how you got your stats.

 

[MenInG]

My personal favourite would have been Majid Khan in the days when personal protection was pretty minimal

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ricky Ponting: the master of the pull-shot

 

[Last Monetarist]

If you go into advanced setting and select batting and dismissal summary it gives you stats for type of bowlers and the breakdown against each type of bowler.

When you posted Stewart averaged 46 against the best pace bowlers I thought that was a bit high and checked for myself and found it different and thats why I asked you how you got your stats.

I think that's a skewed statistic as it only calculates the average number of runs scored when the batsman is dismissed by a fast bowler.

For comparison, if you apply that same measure: Allan Border averages 35; Ricky Ponting averages 40; while Virat Kohli averages 39.

In any case, if you apply the filter for Stewart referred to by [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]: opening the batting and not keeping wicket, that average when Stewart is dismissed by fast bowlers increases to 41.

 

[Robert]

If you go into advanced setting and select batting and dismissal summary it gives you stats for type of bowlers and the breakdown against each type of bowler.

When you posted Stewart averaged 46 against the best pace bowlers I thought that was a bit high and checked for myself and found it different and thats why I asked you how you got your stats.

Stewart at opener then, when not keeping. Average 46.

118 and 143 in a Barbados test against Walsh and Ambrose
190 against Wasim
175 against Wasim and Waqar
Carried bat against Wasim & Waqar
164 against Donald and Pollock fourth innings rearguard to secure an unlikely draw and turn the series
107 at Melbourne against McGrath to get a rare win in an Australian test

Dude could bat. Wish we had his like now. You probably saw him keeping / batting at #7 mostly.

 

[moghul]

Viv Richards is the undisputed champion in this regard,

Others top batsmen .

1-Mjid Khan
2-Roy Fredricks
3-Jimmy Amarnath
4-Wasim Raja
5-Gavaskar
6-Gower
7-Gooch
8-Greenidge
9-Mark Waugh
10-Lamb

 

[Ab Fan]

Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli and Babar Azam.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Against bounce, he was very limited.

Overall though, what a player!

To me Sehwag was not great against the bouncing ball or disconcerting lift.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Stewart at opener then, when not keeping. Average 46.

118 and 143 in a Barbados test against Walsh and Ambrose
190 against Wasim
175 against Wasim and Waqar
Carried bat against Wasim & Waqar
164 against Donald and Pollock fourth innings rearguard to secure an unlikely draw and turn the series
107 at Melbourne against McGrath to get a rare win in an Australian test

Dude could bat. Wish we had his like now. You probably saw him keeping / batting at #7 mostly.

Very well analyzed.I endorse your choice of Alec Stewart.Prolific against best ever duo of Wasim and Waqar.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

My personal favourite would have been Majid Khan in the days when personal protection was pretty minimal

We completely agree.Liked my list and rankings?What about Ian Chappell and Inzamam Ul Haq?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

By the way, I rarely if ever saw Tendulkar struggle against bounce. He should be on that list too.

To me not at his best.Read what Roberts and Holding have to say or Imran.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Viv Richards is the undisputed champion in this regard,

Others top batsmen .

1-Mjid Khan
2-Roy Fredricks
3-Jimmy Amarnath
4-Wasim Raja
5-Gavaskar
6-Gower
7-Gooch
8-Greenidge
9-Mark Waugh
10-Lamb

Great list.Like mine and my order?What about Martin Crowe?Liked choice of Mark Waugh ,Amarnath and Lamb.Why no Inzamam who was master against the short ball?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

I would disqualify most of the West Indians because they did not play much express pace. Lillee, Thommo, Imran, that was about it.

Imran averaged 27 with the bat against WI.

Ponting rarely faced much good quick stuff.

Robin Smith I would agree with.

Lamb averaged 36 against WI despite five centuries.

More recently I would advance Alec Stewart, who smashed WI in their back yard and Waqar & Wasim at home.

Facing really good quick bowling is very hard and few batsmen have consistently done well.

Lillee-Thomson in 1975-76 were more terrifying than anyone.Clive Lloyd played them best averaging 46.9.Maybe he should be here.

Note we are not discussing pace overall,but tacking of the short pitched deliveries or bouncers.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Um, how could you not have Steve Waugh on that list? In the mid-90s, you had Ambrose, Walsh, Waqar, Wasim, Donald and Pollock at their peaks. Please check his record against them. He is one of the first names I thought of. Mark Waugh was not far behind. Also consider Allan Border.

I feel brother Mark was better facing the bouncing ball.Steve had great courage but Mark to he had sounder technique.Do see the videos of Mark taking apart likes of Wasim ,Donald and Ambrose at his best,where he even overshadowed brother Steve.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Sure Viv Richards would be number 1. I was only intending to complement the original thread and Richard was already on the list.

Also I misunderstood the thread. I listed players who were greater pullers and hookers and not necessarily top pace bowling players.

Gooch and Martin Crowe were top players of pace but not great hookers and therefore I did not have them on. However I agree they were one of the best players of pace.

About Inzamam, having followed his career closely he was a disappointment to me. I recall him playing some incredible hook shots early in his career but as time went on he did not play many. i dont really recall him dominating fast bowlers 1996 onwards.

Greatly appreciate but wished to confirm this thread was about the batsman who tackled short balls and bouncers best

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Sure Viv Richards would be number 1. I was only intending to complement the original thread and Richard was already on the list.

Also I misunderstood the thread. I listed players who were greater pullers and hookers and not necessarily top pace bowling players.

Gooch and Martin Crowe were top players of pace but not great hookers and therefore I did not have them on. However I agree they were one of the best players of pace.

About Inzamam, having followed his career closely he was a disappointment to me. I recall him playing some incredible hook shots early in his career but as time went on he did not play many. i dont really recall him dominating fast bowlers 1996 onwards.

Greatly appreciate but wished to confirm this thread was about the batsman who tackled short balls and bouncers best

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Javed was the Mohammed Ali of cricket. He knew how to score runs and last few years relied just on his cricketing acumen.

Imran Khan explained it in his autobiography that Javed from 76 to 84 was a really fit guy who was a great fielder as well. Then he started to gain weight and his fitness was not so good. From 87/88 onwards he started to lose his reflexes a bit and started to rely on his cricketing intelligence. He always had an odd technique vulnerable to LBWs but he worked around it. He knew how to make runs. His hundreds in 1988 vs. the Windies were more about bravery and guts than anything else. He hardly did anything of significance from 1989 till the 1992 world cup. After that he had a memorable England tour and that was it.
In summary what I am saying is that he was not the greatest player of pace but found a way to tackle and make runs. There will never be another Miandad - the true fighter.

Very educative and well analysed.Would you infer it was more about Javed Miandad's mental resilience or courage that he combated short pitched stuff so effectively and not technical skill?Javed did not have a great record in Australia or West Indies overall but still Lillee rated him very highly.Imran felt hi s technique was suspect against pace but still he could be innovative against the most fiery pacemen.I think it is the same case with Steve Waugh in comparison to brother Mark.Mark had greater skill agaisnt lethal short pitched stuff than Steve ,but Steve came out on top because of sheer guts.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Brian Lara for me. Either he would hook with venom or just get under it with ease. Not too tall batsmen like Brian or Sunil Gavaskar played short pitched deliveries very well.

I thought slightly vulnerable against the short ball of express pace?No test Century scored by Lara against a great express quickie.Atleast not at his best against bouncers.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Ricky Ponting: the master of the pull-shot

Great choice Almost at the top against fiery pace but was Ponting a master of the hook shot?Played short pitched deliveries of express pace in the manner of Viv,Majid,Inzy,Amarnath and Gooch?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Viv Richards is the undisputed champion in this regard,

Others top batsmen .

1-Mjid Khan
2-Roy Fredricks
3-Jimmy Amarnath
4-Wasim Raja
5-Gavaskar
6-Gower
7-Gooch
8-Greenidge
9-Mark Waugh
10-Lamb

My greatest complements for placing Majid so high ,after Viv,being the 2nd best ever exponent of the hook stroke.Also appreciate your selection sof Mark Waugh.Alan Lamb and David Gower.A great list in choice and order.Why no Ian Chappell or Inzamam?

 

[Last Monetarist]

Great choice Almost at the top against fiery pace but was Ponting a master of the hook shot?Played short pitched deliveries of express pace in the manner of Viv,Majid,Inzy,Amarnath and Gooch?

He was better than all of those apart from Viv. He didn't need to play the hook shot that often because he was so proficient at pulling off both the front and back foot. He's easily the best player of short-pitched bowling that I have seen live.

 

[moghul]

Great list.Like mine and my order?What about Martin Crowe?Liked choice of Mark Waugh ,Amarnath and Lamb.Why no Inzamam who was master against the short ball?

I agree Inzi was also great against sheer pace and short pitch deliveries and same can be said about Martin Crow.

 

[moghul]

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Amarnath. The greatest.

Jimmy Amarnath was perhaps the most courageous batsman against sheer pace. The way he played Imran khan and his gang and after that against those West Indian "terrorists " in their own back yard was simply great. But his form was short lived and even during his peak, he was hit on his head and body so many times , including one incidence when he fell on the ground when hit by an Imran Khan bouncer . So he did not have technique or easiness in playing sheer pace and short pitched deliveries , like of Majid , Gower and some others but he would simply stand up their and would not give his wicket away. A special credit to him as he did not face fast bowlers of sheer pace in his domestic cricket, as India had none .

 

[Harsh Thakor]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141839]moghul[/MENTION] [MENTION=2919]subshakerz[/MENTION] [MENTION=6490]umarf76[/MENTION] [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] Any views on my new list and comments ?appreciate.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

My personal favourite would have been Majid Khan in the days when personal protection was pretty minimal

You speak my very heart.A true genius.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Great choice Almost at the top against fiery pace but was Ponting a master of the hook shot?Played short pitched deliveries of express pace in the manner of Viv,Majid,Inzy,Amarnath and Gooch?

Viv, just for that swagger and non-chalance was probably better. Faced some of the greatest, most fastest bowlers of all time and destroyed em all...that too without a helmet.

But Ponting at his peak was definitely in the same league if not on the same level. Certainly when you talk about recent history he stands-out as the best for me. Smashing the short ball was almost like second nature to him and that is something about him that definitely sticks out when I think about him all these years later.

 

[moghul]

This is my list in order of merit of batsmen who played short pitched bowling at express pace best.

1.Viv Richards
2.Ian Chappell
3.Rohan Kanhai
4.Inzamam Ul Haq
5.Majid Khan
6.Mohinder Amarnath(at his best)
7.Martin Crowe
8.Alan Lamb .
9.Javed Miandad
10.Gundapppa Vishwanath
11.Sunil Gavaskar
12.Clive Lloyd /David Gower




No batsman with better reflexes than Viv who played great paceman like a spinners,like in WSC supertests and down under in 1979-80.Ian Chappell was the ultimate man in a crisis ,playing the rising ball with great judgement.Rohan Kanhai was more inventive than anyone with his unique roti shot,falling to the ground.Inzamam and Majid had razor sharp reflexes and could even play a bouncer as though playing with a child.Miandad had supreme craft and virtually no fear in playing bouncers so close to his face,reminding you of a tennis player.Amarnath at his best was at the very top,as in the Carribean and Pakistan in 1982-83.Alan Lamb was master in manipulation.Vishwanath was the ultimate epitome of wrist play.Gavaskar was technical perfection personified.Lloyd played Lillee and Thomson better than anyone in 1975-76 ,at their fastest.Martin Crowe and David Gower had more time to tackle disconcerting bounce than almost everyone.

I would not include Miandad in that list. He has been the greatest batsman ever produced by Pakistan and he would managed to score runs against fast bowlers also but not with ease. The greatest ever test of fast bowing came across Pakistan team during their twin tour of Australia and West Indies in 1976-77 when then faced likes of Lille, Thomo , Croft, Garber and Roberts . Majid and Raja showed their class against sheer pace but Miandad was a failure and was dropped from the playing eleven.

Gindapa Wishwanath was OK, but not great against short pitched deliveries. I won't included in my list.

Wasim Raja was great against short pitched bowling but he was in and out of the team due to out of filed controversies and his own inconsistent form.

West Indian pair Greenidge and Hayens were very good against short pitch deliveries.

 

[Gilly]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141839]moghul[/MENTION] [MENTION=2919]subshakerz[/MENTION] [MENTION=6490]umarf76[/MENTION] [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] Any views on my new list and comments ?appreciate.

Looking at some of the players you have included Lamb, Gooch, Inzi, Stewart leaves me thinking you never got to watch a test match with players like Gilly, Hayden, Martyn because they dominated on fast bouncy tracks. Now I'm not saying this list should be full of Australians because there have been some fine South African players too. Both Aus and SA played their cricket on fast bouncy tracks and have good home records when it comes to batting on these type of tracks.

I'm sorry I just don't get your list, it just seems to be a random list of players with not much connection to who were the better players of short pitched bowling.

 

[WengerOut]

Looking at some of the players you have included Lamb, Gooch, Inzi, Stewart leaves me thinking you never got to watch a test match with players like Gilly, Hayden, Martyn because they dominated on fast bouncy tracks. Now I'm not saying this list should be full of Australians because there have been some fine South African players too. Both Aus and SA played their cricket on fast bouncy tracks and have good home records when it comes to batting on these type of tracks.

I'm sorry I just don't get your list, it just seems to be a random list of players with not much connection to who were the better players of short pitched bowling.

This is the most sane post in the thread. Producing a subjective list based on an intangible criteria is all a waste. I can put Courtney Walsh in it and argue about it

 

[Hasan123]

As always the usual suspects telling us everything from the 60s,70s,and 80s was the best. And that nothing can compete with those times.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

This is my list in order of merit of batsmen who played short pitched bowling at express pace best.

1.Viv Richards
2.Ian Chappell
3.Rohan Kanhai
4.Inzamam Ul Haq
5.Majid Khan
6.Mohinder Amarnath(at his best)
7.Martin Crowe
8.Alan Lamb .
9.Javed Miandad
10.Gundapppa Vishwanath
11.Sunil Gavaskar
12.Clive Lloyd /David Gower




No batsman with better reflexes than Viv who played great paceman like a spinners,like in WSC supertests and down under in 1979-80.Ian Chappell was the ultimate man in a crisis ,playing the rising ball with great judgement.Rohan Kanhai was more inventive than anyone with his unique roti shot,falling to the ground.Inzamam and Majid had razor sharp reflexes and could even play a bouncer as though playing with a child.Miandad had supreme craft and virtually no fear in playing bouncers so close to his face,reminding you of a tennis player.Amarnath at his best was at the very top,as in the Carribean and Pakistan in 1982-83.Alan Lamb was master in manipulation.Vishwanath was the ultimate epitome of wrist play.Gavaskar was technical perfection personified.Lloyd played Lillee and Thomson better than anyone in 1975-76 ,at their fastest.Martin Crowe and David Gower had more time to tackle disconcerting bounce than almost everyone.

Hein ??
Where is Ricky Ponting?

And do you remember how Clive Lloyd was spitting blood and his broken teeth against Ramesh Ratnayake?


And thanks for borrowing this piece of knowledge from Imran khan when u said

No batsman with better reflexes than Viv