Big match players in the world currently?

[Madplayer]

In the history of cricket we have seen some great players wilting under pressure of big matches while some average players coming to the fore when the going gets tough. This era is no different with lots of players who produce their best when the situation and occassion demands it.

Who are the big match players of the world currently?

Criteria : players have to have performed in crunch situations. You can take both international performances and league performances (IPL, PSL, SLPL, BPL, BBL,CPL etc.) into consideration but the players you mention must have played international cricket.

For me these are the big match players currently :

Pakistan:
Muhammad Amir,
Hasan Ali

Potentially - Shadab, Fakhar.


India :
Shikhar Dhawan,
Ms Dhoni,
Kohli,
Bhuvneshwar Kumar

Potentially - Kuldeep yadav, Pandya

Aus:
Steve Smith,
Starc,
Warner

England:
Joe Root

Potentially - Jos butler

WI:
Carlos braithwaite
Darren Sammy
Marlon Samuels [all of them in mostly t20is)

Potentially - evin lewis

SA:
FaF du plessis

Potentially - Rabada

NZ:
Ross taylor

Potentially - kane williamson, munro, boult, santner, sodhi.

Bangladesh:
Mahmadullah,
Mushfiq ur rahim

Potentially - Sabbir Rehman.

SL:
Angelo Matthews,
Perera

Potentially - Kusal perera

 

[Ab Fan]

Root and Butler are not big match players. They are worse than AB and only slightly better than Amla.

Neither is Williamson a big match player.

 

[Madplayer]

Root and Butler are not big match players. They are worse than AB and only slightly better than Amla.

Neither is Williamson a big match player.

Who are the big match players according to you?

 

[UN talkz]

Rabada has to be the one in coming days but i am afraid his team will let him down.

Shikhar Dhawan is one, has been best player in ICC ODI tournaments in this decade.

Hassan Ali and then Amir for Pakistan.

Grant Elliott has also played few good knocks in big games

 

[Adijazz1706]

Samuels, Kohli in T20 wcs, Dhawan and Steve Smith

 

[shane]

I would add Eoin Morgan in white-ball cricket.

 

[Titan24]

Bhuvenshwar Kumar is only a big match player in IPL like Wahab in PSL, I am yet to see Bhuvi performing in a big match at international level.

 

[Madplayer]

Bhuvenshwar Kumar is only a big match player in IPL like Wahab in PSL, I am yet to see Bhuvi performing in a big match at international level.

Performed well in CT final.

 

[Rayyman]

There is a difference between having a competitive edge (Kohli) and being cool under pressure (Amir).
[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION]
Guys like Shadab, Warner, Wahab, Stokes, Hasan, Rabada, Mushfiqur and even Kohli at times are guys who play the game at a 100% intensity and want to win more than anybody. But they have not necessarily shown it in the big moments.

Playing well and succeeding in big matches doesn't have to do with competitiveness, passion, etc. We have seen guys like this get too emotional at the big stage, and lose the plot. For example, Shadab in CT Final got absolutely demolished by Pandya, Warner had a poor WC'15 aside from a match against Afg and a poor WT2016, Wahab on June 4th, Stokes in WT20 Final, Hasan on June 4th, but he really hasn't played in any big moments as of yet, game was already won in the Final, Rabada will have an uphill battle, again hasn't done anything with the lights on, Mushfiqur has choked plenty of times before, Kohli is not his usual self in big matches.

I am quite confused as to why you mention Shadab and not somebody like Babar Azam. The latter has already scored multiple big scores with the team collapsing around him, a sign of a player who can focus when the team is under pressure. Yes he is not as competitive as some, but he is consistent and calm, which is what is required in pressure situations.

A lot of times, the people you will see succeeding under pressure will not be the highly competitive players, but the more laid-back, almost lazy players. Guys like Samuels, Dhoni and Mathews are the definition of clutch and they even get better in these moments. For them it's not extra pressure, but extra motivation, because they are known to be lazy at times, these times are when they actually stand up and get the job done.

I can go on and on but I think my point has been made.

 

[zain7077]

There is a difference between having a competitive edge (Kohli) and being cool under pressure (Amir).

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION]
Guys like Shadab, Warner, Wahab, Stokes, Hasan, Rabada, Mushfiqur and even Kohli at times are guys who play the game at a 100% intensity and want to win more than anybody. But they have not necessarily shown it in the big moments.

Playing well and succeeding in big matches doesn't have to do with competitiveness, passion, etc. We have seen guys like this get too emotional at the big stage, and lose the plot. For example, Shadab in CT Final got absolutely demolished by Pandya, Warner had a poor WC'15 aside from a match against Afg and a poor WT2016, Wahab on June 4th, Stokes in WT20 Final, Hasan on June 4th, but he really hasn't played in any big moments as of yet, game was already won in the Final, Rabada will have an uphill battle, again hasn't done anything with the lights on, Mushfiqur has choked plenty of times before, Kohli is not his usual self in big matches.

I am quite confused as to why you mention Shadab and not somebody like Babar Azam. The latter has already scored multiple big scores with the team collapsing around him, a sign of a player who can focus when the team is under pressure. Yes he is not as competitive as some, but he is consistent and calm, which is what is required in pressure situations.

A lot of times, the people you will see succeeding under pressure will not be the highly competitive players, but the more laid-back, almost lazy players. Guys like Samuels, Dhoni and Mathews are the definition of clutch and they even get better in these moments. For them it's not extra pressure, but extra motivation, because they are known to be lazy at times, these times are when they actually stand up and get the job done.

I can go on and on but I think my point has been made.

Quality post, completely agree with you.

 

[Rayyman]

For me the big match players:

Australia: Hazlewood and Smith. (Actually Aussies usually finish the match before it gets to that moment.)
Bangladesh: Mahmudullah, Shakib and Mustafizur
England: Woakes
India: Dhoni, Pandya, and Rahane
New Zealand: Guptill, Williamson, Taylor, Santner, Boult (Kiwis are very calm, main reason for their overachieving in tournaments.)
South Africa: Du Plessis
Sri Lanka: Mathews, Perera

Pakistan:
Azhar, Fakhar, Sarfraz, Amir, Junaid, Imad
Unfortunately some of our not as great players are pretty good under pressure (Shehzad, Imad, Shafiq, Nawaz). While some of our good players are bottlers (Yasir, Yamin, Shinwari).

Clutch gene is important but isn't the end all be all. Otherwise players like Nawaz and Shehzad would be sure starters for Pakistan.

 

[Madplayer]

There is a difference between having a competitive edge (Kohli) and being cool under pressure (Amir).

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION]
Guys like Shadab, Warner, Wahab, Stokes, Hasan, Rabada, Mushfiqur and even Kohli at times are guys who play the game at a 100% intensity and want to win more than anybody. But they have not necessarily shown it in the big moments.

Playing well and succeeding in big matches doesn't have to do with competitiveness, passion, etc. We have seen guys like this get too emotional at the big stage, and lose the plot. For example, Shadab in CT Final got absolutely demolished by Pandya, Warner had a poor WC'15 aside from a match against Afg and a poor WT2016, Wahab on June 4th, Stokes in WT20 Final, Hasan on June 4th, but he really hasn't played in any big moments as of yet, game was already won in the Final, Rabada will have an uphill battle, again hasn't done anything with the lights on, Mushfiqur has choked plenty of times before, Kohli is not his usual self in big matches.

I am quite confused as to why you mention Shadab and not somebody like Babar Azam. The latter has already scored multiple big scores with the team collapsing around him, a sign of a player who can focus when the team is under pressure. Yes he is not as competitive as some, but he is consistent and calm, which is what is required in pressure situations.

A lot of times, the people you will see succeeding under pressure will not be the highly competitive players, but the more laid-back, almost lazy players. Guys like Samuels, Dhoni and Mathews are the definition of clutch and they even get better in these moments. For them it's not extra pressure, but extra motivation, because they are known to be lazy at times, these times are when they actually stand up and get the job done.

I can go on and on but I think my point has been made.

I understand what you are saying but the thread is not about competitiveness at all. I mentioned in OP itself that average players might come to the fore in pressure situations while great players wilt under pressure. The thread is simply about players who perform well in pressure situations and on bigger stages. Whether they always play with intensity or whether they only get motivated in pressure situations is not the question here.

I mentioned Hassan Ali not just because of the CT final but also because of the games prior to it which were all high pressure knockouts. If we consider only the final, the Kohli would never make the list.

Same for Shadab who bowled well throughout the CT tournament and took crucial wickets in CT final (Jadhav, Yuvraj). Also, his exploits for ISLU in 2017 PSL when he performed with bat and ball in crunch situations shows he has the potential to br a big match player. I said potentially, not that he is already there yet.

Babar Azam has played well in a number of matches but lets be honest, all his innings on bigger stages like CT or pressure PSL games have been decent at best, not very impactful so far. Yes his 100 against SL where everybody else except Shadab failed was exceptional but for me he isnt a big match player yet purely due to lack of impactful innings in crunch situations at bigger stages.

 

[Ash123]

Are you guys serious when u say kohli is not dere....highest scorer in CT final in 2013,Highest scorer in WCT20 FINAL 2014,highest scorer in WT2016 SF,MOM in INDVSPAK in two WC'S......jus becoz he played in a lot more pressure situation matched in some he has done good some ge hasnt ....and what i am seeing here players who hav played just one big pressure match and dey are big match player...hate for kohli is on a diff level...lets appreciate sometimes

 

[Rayyman]

I understand what you are saying but the thread is not about competitiveness at all. I mentioned in OP itself that average players might come to the fore in pressure situations while great players wilt under pressure. The thread is simply about players who perform well in pressure situations and on bigger stages. Whether they always play with intensity or whether they only get motivated in pressure situations is not the question here.

I mentioned Hassan Ali not just because of the CT final but also because of the games prior to it which were all high pressure knockouts. If we consider only the final, the Kohli would never make the list.

Same for Shadab who bowled well throughout the CT tournament and took crucial wickets in CT final (Jadhav, Yuvraj). Also, his exploits for ISLU in 2017 PSL when he performed with bat and ball in crunch situations shows he has the potential to br a big match player. I said potentially, not that he is already there yet.

Babar Azam has played well in a number of matches but lets be honest, all his innings on bigger stages like CT or pressure PSL games have been decent at best, not very impactful so far. Yes his 100 against SL where everybody else except Shadab failed was exceptional but for me he isnt a big match player yet purely due to lack of impactful innings in crunch situations at bigger stages.

Nothing wrong with what you said either.

I just think it's wrong that some people label Babar as a choker or "small-hearted" just due to his laziness. They have these misconceptions that he will always score soft and meaningless runs in his career to come. And basing these predictions on a lack of intensity, etc. When in reality his aloof nature can actually help him deal with pressure as it had with someone similar like Shoaib Malik.

You have the right point of view, but others
are too blinded with misconceptions.

 

[Rayyman]

Are you guys serious when u say kohli is not dere....highest scorer in CT final in 2013,Highest scorer in WCT20 FINAL 2014,highest scorer in WT2016 SF,MOM in INDVSPAK in two WC'S......jus becoz he played in a lot more pressure situation matched in some he has done good some ge hasnt ....and what i am seeing here players who hav played just one big pressure match and dey are big match player...hate for kohli is on a diff level...lets appreciate sometimes

You are proving your own point. Kohli has played a mix of good and bad innings in pressure matches. He's not someone you could say is a big game player because he's failed too many times for someone of his caliber. There is no question that pressure does affect him and he gets worse in big games (even if it's by a small margin).

 

[Princejain191]

Kohli for us Indians. He has a mix of decent, great and below-par innings till now. But again he is 29 and only human. Our top scorer in:

CT13 final
WCT20'14 semi-final vs. SA
WCT20'14 final vs. SL
WCT20'16 knockout vs Australia
WCT20'16 semi vs. West Indies.

Did well in WC11 final too and in CT17 semi final.

We are Kohli or bust in big games right now. Especially in chases.

 

[Titan24]

Performed well in CT final.

Yes was economical as compared to his other team mates. But nothing much to say he is a big match palayer. Big match player is someone who can win you a big match not just someone who performs okish.

 

[Titan24]

For me the big match players:

Australia: Hazlewood and Smith. (Actually Aussies usually finish the match before it gets to that moment.)
Bangladesh: Mahmudullah, Shakib and Mustafizur
England: Woakes
India: Dhoni, Pandya, and Rahane
New Zealand: Guptill, Williamson, Taylor, Santner, Boult (Kiwis are very calm, main reason for their overachieving in tournaments.)
South Africa: Du Plessis
Sri Lanka: Mathews, Perera

Pakistan:
Azhar, Fakhar, Sarfraz, Amir, Junaid, Imad
Unfortunately some of our not as great players are pretty good under pressure (Shehzad, Imad, Shafiq, Nawaz). While some of our good players are bottlers (Yasir, Yamin, Shinwari).

Clutch gene is important but isn't the end all be all. Otherwise players like Nawaz and Shehzad would be sure starters for Pakistan.

Shinwari is yet to play a pressure match so its too early to call him a bottler. He doesnt give impression of someone who takes extra pressure in important games so I think he might turn out to be good in pressure matches. We will get to know today

 

[sohailmm]

Kohli takes the lead at the moment in current generation for the top go-to man in pressure situations.

Others are :
Amir and Hassan Ali. ( Shadab and Zaman are prospect)
Smith ,Starc , Warner.
Dhoni .( I have never rated Dhawan). There are only two players which their team is looking upto into a chase. That says it all.
Rabada .
Mohammadullah.
Ros Taylor .
Angelo Mathews.
Marlon Samuels.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

There are you usual suspects that I'm not gonna talk about. Other names:
Marlon Samuels and Suresh Raina. Both an insanely clutch. Raina in particular was the biggest reason why India beat us in the 2011 World Cup semifinal. Still hurts as we had them on the mat before that.

Sarfaraz is the only one who I'd say is proven clutch for us. His innings against Sri Lanka in the final group game is incredibly underrated. I always have a soft spot for a person who can take teams home in chases.

Salim Malik was incredibly clutch in the past for us if he wasn't upto his tricks

Another left field name: Gambhir. Clutch in the T20 World Cup Final 2007, and the World Cup Final 2011. Same he's such as vacuous idiot apart from that. I rate him in that 2007-2011 as one of the most complete batsmen going around, and a huge reason India was so successful. His technique went to crap after that.

 

[Spectrum]

How can you miss biggest final match hero Gautam Gambhir. Gambhir was highest run scorer in India's both world cup titles win, also contribution in IPL finals. He is one of world's finest player under pressure along with Dhawan and Samuels.

 

[barah_admi]

There is a difference between having a competitive edge (Kohli) and being cool under pressure (Amir).

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION]
Guys like Shadab, Warner, Wahab, Stokes, Hasan, Rabada, Mushfiqur and even Kohli at times are guys who play the game at a 100% intensity and want to win more than anybody. But they have not necessarily shown it in the big moments.

Playing well and succeeding in big matches doesn't have to do with competitiveness, passion, etc. We have seen guys like this get too emotional at the big stage, and lose the plot. For example, Shadab in CT Final got absolutely demolished by Pandya, Warner had a poor WC'15 aside from a match against Afg and a poor WT2016, Wahab on June 4th, Stokes in WT20 Final, Hasan on June 4th, but he really hasn't played in any big moments as of yet, game was already won in the Final, Rabada will have an uphill battle, again hasn't done anything with the lights on, Mushfiqur has choked plenty of times before, Kohli is not his usual self in big matches.

I am quite confused as to why you mention Shadab and not somebody like Babar Azam. The latter has already scored multiple big scores with the team collapsing around him, a sign of a player who can focus when the team is under pressure. Yes he is not as competitive as some, but he is consistent and calm, which is what is required in pressure situations.

A lot of times, the people you will see succeeding under pressure will not be the highly competitive players, but the more laid-back, almost lazy players. Guys like Samuels, Dhoni and Mathews are the definition of clutch and they even get better in these moments. For them it's not extra pressure, but extra motivation, because they are known to be lazy at times, these times are when they actually stand up and get the job done.

I can go on and on but I think my point has been made.

Quality post. I was going to say something similar but no point now lol

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Joginder Sharma. If u don't agree, then ask Misbah.

 

[CricCrazyNick]

Joginder Sharma. If u don't agree, then ask Misbah.

Michael Hussy...Ask Ajmal

 

[Ab Fan]

Root and Butler are not big match players. They are worse than AB and only slightly better than Amla.

Neither is Williamson a big match player.

Ones whom I can name without thinking much:-

Kohli, Dhawan , Smith, Starc , Rabada, Samuels, Ross (these days), Warner etc.
[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION], quoted my post by mistake.

 

[Ab Fan]

How can you miss biggest final match hero Gautam Gambhir. Gambhir was highest run scorer in India's both world cup titles win, also contribution in IPL finals. He is one of world's finest player under pressure along with Dhawan and Samuels.

Currently as per OP!

 

[Bilal7]

Kohli is definitely not a big match player and no, I am not taking mickey mouse cricket into account. Failed in the 2011 Mohali semi, 2011 WC final, 2015 WC semi and most recently, the final of the 2017 CT, arguably the biggest Indo-Pak encounter. His average in all finals is what? 20-odd, I believe.

Amir is a big match player, without doubt. He becomes a far better bowler when everyone is watching. Players like him and Gautam Gambhir should be spoken about in threads like these, not the likes of Kohli who's best ever performance in a big match is a scratchy cameo of 35 scored at a SR of 70 that had no bearing on the eventual result.

Kohli is a fantastic player and potentially a future-ATG but let's not shoehorn him into every discussion. If 'big matches' also include test cricket, then South Africa and England would have a lot more players representing them.

 

[Princejain191]

Kohli is definitely not a big match player and no, I am not taking mickey mouse cricket into account. Failed in the 2011 Mohali semi, 2011 WC final, 2015 WC semi and most recently, the final of the 2017 CT, arguably the biggest Indo-Pak encounter. His average in all finals is what? 20-odd, I believe.

Amir is a big match player, without doubt. He becomes a far better bowler when everyone is watching. Players like him and Gautam Gambhir should be spoken about in threads like these, not the likes of Kohli who's best ever performance in a big match is a scratchy cameo of 35 scored at a SR of 70 that had no bearing on the eventual result.

Kohli is a fantastic player and potentially a future-ATG but let's not shoehorn him into every discussion. If 'big matches' also include test cricket, then South Africa and England would have a lot more players representing them.

There he goes again LOL.

Kohli has all the pressure in Indian chases. And if any team is chasing 330+ in knockout matches, let alone against Aus and Pak attacks, you are asking for too much. He has done enough at this age to be called a big match player. Those 'micky mouse' matches matter and require ridiculous level of skill-set, irrespective of what you have got yourself to believe in the make-believe world of Amla-is-better-than-Kohli-in-ODIs, and of It-swings-in-England-SA-ODIs.

And average in finals includes those India-WI-SL type tri series finals. He probably faced 10 times the pressure in group stage match vs. Pakistan in 2015 and in 100 other matches.

In reality he has played 4 big finals. CT13, CT17, WT2014 and WC11. And he did well in 3. Our top scorer in 2.


And that 35 was extremely important, as many of his senior teammates have said, but don't think you understand cricket well enough to see how.

 

[Bilal7]

There he goes again LOL.

Kohli has all the pressure in Indian chases. And if any team is chasing 330+ in knockout matches, let alone against Aus and Pak attacks, you are asking for too much. He has done enough at this age to be called a big match player. Those 'micky mouse' matches matter and require ridiculous level of skill-set, irrespective of what you have got yourself to believe in the make-believe world of Amla-is-better-than-Kohli-in-ODIs, and of It-swings-in-England-SA-ODIs.

And average in finals includes those India-WI-SL type tri series finals. He probably faced 10 times the pressure in group stage match vs. Pakistan in 2015 and in 100 other matches.

In reality he has played 4 big finals. CT13, CT17, WT2014 and WC11. And he did well in 3. Our top scorer in 2.


And that 35 was extremely important, as many of his senior teammates have said, but don't think you understand cricket well enough to see how.

I am asking for too much from the "greatest chaser of all-time"? Clearly, given that he's a massive choker and anyone not blinded by his hype can see that. You can cry and whine all you want but the IPL does not matter to me. If it does to you, then feel free to label Kohli as the greatest 'big match' player of all time. If only he would have used some of the "ridiculous level" skill-set that he has acquired in the IPL to win India a big international game or two.

A group-stage match is not really a big match. If it is then we should not be so critical of South Africa who won a clutch victory against India in the 2011 WC. By big matches, people are referring to KO or must-win games. Not the first game of a tournament in which all the top-eight teams were guaranteed progression into the KO rounds. He even failed in the quarter finals of the 2015 WC against Bangladesh, lol.

As expected, two of these finals are 20-over matches and the other two he failed in. The fact that you have to justify a mediocre innings of 35 scored at a SR of 70 in order to save some face for your hero tells me all there is to say about his record in big matches. Let's see you try to justify the following failures with anything resembling sound logic:

1) 2011 WC quarter-final
2) 2011 WC semi-final
3) 2011 WC final
4) 2015 WC quarter-final
5) 2015 WC semi-final

And of course, the 2017 CT final where he was dismissed not once, but twice. The only two decent performances he has are in CT semi-finals where the opposition (Sri Lanka and Bangladesh) were dismissed for below-par totals and someone above him put the result beyond doubt. Big match player indeed.

 

[Send1983]

Kohli is definitely not a big match player and no, I am not taking mickey mouse cricket into account. Failed in the 2011 Mohali semi, 2011 WC final, 2015 WC semi and most recently, the final of the 2017 CT, arguably the biggest Indo-Pak encounter. His average in all finals is what? 20-odd, I believe.

Amir is a big match player, without doubt. He becomes a far better bowler when everyone is watching. Players like him and Gautam Gambhir should be spoken about in threads like these, not the likes of Kohli who's best ever performance in a big match is a scratchy cameo of 35 scored at a SR of 70 that had no bearing on the eventual result.

Kohli is a fantastic player and potentially a future-ATG but let's not shoehorn him into every discussion. If 'big matches' also include test cricket, then South Africa and England would have a lot more players representing them.

Where did OP mention format in his OP? When you say big match it could be the test match against top 3 teams, ODI knockout games or T20 WC knockout games. Don’t assume anything and put any additional filter to make your hero look better.

Amir did nothing in any of the BIG test matches, or lOI knockouts except Champions trophy and t20 wc final. I would give credit for his t20 wc performance but ct final, he had 330+ runs on the board as a cushion. Any bowler would look great. It’s more like batsman scoring runs while chasing mediocre totals in the finals.

 

[Send1983]

Kohli is definitely not a big match player and no, I am not taking mickey mouse cricket into account. Failed in the 2011 Mohali semi, 2011 WC final, 2015 WC semi and most recently, the final of the 2017 CT, arguably the biggest Indo-Pak encounter. His average in all finals is what? 20-odd, I believe.

Amir is a big match player, without doubt. He becomes a far better bowler when everyone is watching. Players like him and Gautam Gambhir should be spoken about in threads like these, not the likes of Kohli who's best ever performance in a big match is a scratchy cameo of 35 scored at a SR of 70 that had no bearing on the eventual result.

Kohli is a fantastic player and potentially a future-ATG but let's not shoehorn him into every discussion. If 'big matches' also include test cricket, then South Africa and England would have a lot more players representing them.

OP even asked you to consider Premier league t20 games as well. Now you are removing T20 wc finals and knockouts innings out.

 

[Bilal7]

Where did OP mention format in his OP? When you say big match it could be the test match against top 3 teams, ODI knockout games or T20 WC knockout games. Don’t assume anything and put any additional filter to make your hero look better.

Amir did nothing in any of the BIG test matches, or lOI knockouts except Champions trophy and t20 wc final. I would give credit for his t20 wc performance but ct final, he had 330+ runs on the board as a cushion. Any bowler would look great. It’s more like batsman scoring runs while chasing mediocre totals in the finals.

OP even asked you to consider Premier league t20 games as well. Now you are removing T20 wc finals and knockouts innings out.

If tests are to be taken into account then it makes no sense that Amla, Cook, Shah, Rahane, Moeen and a bunch of others are not mentioned in OP's list of players. This however, does make sense if tests are excluded for whatever reason.

Amir is not my hero. I have no problems in admitting that he has been pretty average in tests. I was answering the question and it is a fact that Amir raises his game by a lot in the big ODI matches. Kohli does not. Even bringing tests into the fold does not change anything. Kohli has been unable to help his team win a single big test match in Australia, England or South Africa. Additionally, he's never played Pakistan.

I do not consider league cricket when rating international players. It makes zero sense to include the PSL but exclude the List 'A' tournament of Pakistan, for example. Like I told someone else, if you want to use the IPL as the measure of a player's quality, go right ahead because I do not give a rat's tail. Just don't get riled up by what I say.

 

[bujhee kom]

Samuels come to mind first. Clutch as they come. 2 T20 WC finals and he starred both times.

 

[Princejain191]

I am asking for too much from the "greatest chaser of all-time"? Clearly, given that he's a massive choker and anyone not blinded by his hype can see that. You can cry and whine all you want but the IPL does not matter to me. If it does to you, then feel free to label Kohli as the greatest 'big match' player of all time. If only he would have used some of the "ridiculous level" skill-set that he has acquired in the IPL to win India a big international game or two.

A group-stage match is not really a big match. If it is then we should not be so critical of South Africa who won a clutch victory against India in the 2011 WC. By big matches, people are referring to KO or must-win games. Not the first game of a tournament in which all the top-eight teams were guaranteed progression into the KO rounds. He even failed in the quarter finals of the 2015 WC against Bangladesh, lol.

As expected, two of these finals are 20-over matches and the other two he failed in. The fact that you have to justify a mediocre innings of 35 scored at a SR of 70 in order to save some face for your hero tells me all there is to say about his record in big matches. Let's see you try to justify the following failures with anything resembling sound logic:

1) 2011 WC quarter-final
2) 2011 WC semi-final
3) 2011 WC final
4) 2015 WC quarter-final
5) 2015 WC semi-final

And of course, the 2017 CT final where he was dismissed not once, but twice. The only two decent performances he has are in CT semi-finals where the opposition (Sri Lanka and Bangladesh) were dismissed for below-par totals and someone above him put the result beyond doubt. Big match player indeed.

IPL? Never talked about it.

I meant World Cup in T20 format, you know the one which sees 16 teams participate, catches billions of eyeballs and which requires very high set of skills to be consistent and Virat has bossed it twice now. 72* vs. SA in semis, 77 vs. SL in final (and would probably have won it if not for Yuvraj). 82* vs Australia in a virtual quarter-final (remains one of the best inning I've watched in any format given the occasion, the quality of attack and the situation), 89* vs WI in semi final.

Now you are so conveniently excluding two of his Champions Trophy knocks by using the 'below-par totals' excuse. Maybe Amir's spell in CT17 final was average because batsmen had set him a incredibly above par total to defend using the same logic.

And that 43 in CT final was again special. To show how important it was - if it wasn't for Virat, we would probably have been bowled out for less than 100 and lost the CT13.

35 in WC11 still is a good knock. Not a great knock but good. We had lost two of our best batsmen in the team in a WC final. It could so easily have been a rout. Good on a 22 year old to play sensibly and calm a lot of nerves. We know the importance of that inning. Far FAR from a failure.

Now I have listed 6-7 instances of him doing well in must-win high profile matches. He hasn't been very good in ODI WC knockouts till now. No need to defend. He can't score every time. I would excuse the 2011 Quarter and Semis given how young and new to his career he was. Couldn't care less about how much he scored vs. Bangladesh in quarters in WC15. We were always going to win it. And bowlers lost us the CT17 final and WC15 semis - not Virat.

And he is the greatest chaser of all time. Of course, if you were to nitpick, you'd find instances where he has failed, but if he isn't the greatest chaser, then who is? And don't say Grant Elliot cos of his inning vs. SA - cos that could be an answer according to your logic.

Virat is a choker? LOL. He is a big-match player.

 

[Rayyman]

Babar was majestic today in a big match. Showed great composure.

 

[Princejain191]

So in knock-matches in ICC tournaments since last 5 years for Virat.

2013 CT:

50* something vs SL in Semis.
43 vs England in Finals. (highest scorer in a low scoring match)

2014 WC20:

72* vs SA in semis.
77 vs SL in finals

2015 WC50:

Falied vs Bangla in Quarters
Failed vs. Aus chasing 330 in semis.

2016 WC20:

82* vs Australia in Quarter final
89* vs WI in Semi final

2017 CT:

76* vs SA in virtual quarter final.
96*(78) vs Bangla in Semis chasing 270
Failed vs Pakistan in Finals chasing 340.

If Virat is a choker, who isn't?

 

[Smudger]

Kohli and Smith.

 

[Bilal7]

IPL? Never talked about it.

I meant World Cup in T20 format, you know the one which sees 16 teams participate, catches billions of eyeballs and which requires very high set of skills to be consistent and Virat has bossed it twice now. 72* vs. SA in semis, 77 vs. SL in final (and would probably have won it if not for Yuvraj). 82* vs Australia in a virtual quarter-final (remains one of the best inning I've watched in any format given the occasion, the quality of attack and the situation), 89* vs WI in semi final.

Now you are so conveniently excluding two of his Champions Trophy knocks by using the 'below-par totals' excuse. Maybe Amir's spell in CT17 final was average because batsmen had set him a incredibly above par total to defend using the same logic.

And that 43 in CT final was again special. To show how important it was - if it wasn't for Virat, we would probably have been bowled out for less than 100 and lost the CT13.

35 in WC11 still is a good knock. Not a great knock but good. We had lost two of our best batsmen in the team in a WC final. It could so easily have been a rout. Good on a 22 year old to play sensibly and calm a lot of nerves. We know the importance of that inning. Far FAR from a failure.

Now I have listed 6-7 instances of him doing well in must-win high profile matches. He hasn't been very good in ODI WC knockouts till now. No need to defend. He can't score every time. I would excuse the 2011 Quarter and Semis given how young and new to his career he was. Couldn't care less about how much he scored vs. Bangladesh in quarters in WC15. We were always going to win it. And bowlers lost us the CT17 final and WC15 semis - not Virat.

And he is the greatest chaser of all time. Of course, if you were to nitpick, you'd find instances where he has failed, but if he isn't the greatest chaser, then who is? And don't say Grant Elliot cos of his inning vs. SA - cos that could be an answer according to your logic.

Virat is a choker? LOL. He is a big-match player.

I am talking only about ODIs. For the last time, if you want to discuss mickey mouse cricket, don't waste my time. And I say this as someone who's team has produced countless players who have performed spectacularly at World T20s (learn how to refer to them properly if you care so much about them), none more so than a certain 17 year-old who owned Dilshan during the final of '09 edition. Yet Virat is being excused because apparently he was a baby who had to be carried in 2011.

Coming back to the topic at hand, Kohli has been nothing but a choker in big ODI games. Yes, those half centuries scored under no pressure against poor opposition and chasing sub-par totals does not in any way, shape or form compare to an outstanding spell that dismissed the opposition's top three and won his team the final. You yourself implied that the ball does not swing at all in England so that only makes that spell even better. 320 was not an above-par score and India were definitely in it because, once again according to you, they had the "greatest chaser of all-time" in their team along with the batsman of the tournament in Shikar Dhawan.

Those 43 runs were scored in a 20-over match. It says nothing about Kohli's ability to bat in a 50-over game. As for the 35, it is frankly shameful that you have to keep bringing that up to show how Kohli is not an absolute failure during big ODI games. Even if we were to give him a pass on that, that still leaves:

1) 2011 WC quarter-final (unless of course, your desperation makes you defend his 20 runs as well, lol)
2) 2011 WC semi-final (guess Umar Akmal and Hafeez also deserve a pass here. They scored around 35 runs and if that is good enough for Kohli, it is good enough for them).
3) 2015 WC quarter-final (owned by Bangladesh of all teams, lol)
4) 2015 WC semi-final (He was clearly out of his depth in the middle. One run for 11 balls is a pathetic way to approach a 300+ chase)
5) 2017 CT final (Dismissed twice by the real big-match player).

You can defend him all you like but deep down even you know that Kohli is not a big-match ODI batsman. If he has a similar showing next year, he'll go down as the biggest ODI choker of all-time.

Grant Elliot over Virat Kohli any day in a big ODI match.

 

[Smudger]

So in knock-matches in ICC tournaments since last 5 years for Virat.

2013 CT:

50* something vs SL in Semis.
43 vs England in Finals. (highest scorer in a low scoring match)

2014 WC20:

72* vs SA in semis.
77 vs SL in finals

2015 WC50:

Falied vs Bangla in Quarters
Failed vs. Aus chasing 330 in semis.

2016 WC20:

82* vs Australia in Quarter final
89* vs WI in Semi final

2017 CT:

76* vs SA in virtual quarter final.
96*(78) vs Bangla in Semis chasing 270
Failed vs Pakistan in Finals chasing 340.

If Virat is a choker, who isn't?

You are trying too hard. Fact remains that kohli has no impact innings in odi.
Though i must admit he is a super human in t20s

 

[Bilal7]

You are trying too hard. Fact remains that kohli has no impact innings in odi.
Though i must admit he is a super human in t20s

He is one of the best ever in IT20s but people need to learn how to separate formats. Dhoni is a fantastic pressure player in ODIs but the same is not true in test and T20 cricket. Likewise, Younis Khan was fantastic in tests under pressure but not in LOIs. However, with Kohli, his T20 successes are good enough to prove that he is clutch in ODIs too.

 

[reversehook]

misbah, naam hi kaafi hai.... bpl mein apni team ki khaatir kuptaan honay ke bawajood bahir baitha raha ta keh team jeet sakay... mujhay toh rulaa hi diya tha... aj kal IU ke saath bhi similar zone mein hain dada ji....

 

[Deewana]

How can you miss biggest final match hero Gautam Gambhir. Gambhir was highest run scorer in India's both world cup titles win, also contribution in IPL finals. He is one of world's finest player under pressure along with Dhawan and Samuels.

Gambhir was a clutch player the biggest reason india won world t20 in 07 and wc in 11..dhoni's innings overshadowed his innings deserved a century in the final

 

[Hasan123]

Amir
Dhwaan
Samules
Kohli

 

[Rayyman]

Amir
Dhwaan
Samules
Kohli

I haven't really seen Dhawan score big pressure matches. Can you name any? I do know he does well in tournaments, but I'm talking about Semi-Finals and Finals.

 

[Hasan123]

I haven't really seen Dhawan score big pressure matches. Can you name any? I do know he does well in tournaments, but I'm talking about Semi-Finals and Finals.

He has dominated icc tournaments recently. He's allowed to fail in 1 or 2 games.

 

[Deewana]

Stop Fooling and lying we all Pakistani's will take kohli over all of our batsman in any match

 

[Princejain191]

You are trying too hard. Fact remains that kohli has no impact innings in odi.
Though i must admit he is a super human in t20s

Nah, just think he is micro-analyzed more than most. Dhoni apparently is a clutch ODI batsman when he has failed in all except one match. Double standards.

 

[Princejain191]

I am talking only about ODIs. For the last time, if you want to discuss mickey mouse cricket, don't waste my time. And I say this as someone who's team has produced countless players who have performed spectacularly at World T20s (learn how to refer to them properly if you care so much about them), none more so than a certain 17 year-old who owned Dilshan during the final of '09 edition. Yet Virat is being excused because apparently he was a baby who had to be carried in 2011.

Coming back to the topic at hand, Kohli has been nothing but a choker in big ODI games. Yes, those half centuries scored under no pressure against poor opposition and chasing sub-par totals does not in any way, shape or form compare to an outstanding spell that dismissed the opposition's top three and won his team the final. You yourself implied that the ball does not swing at all in England so that only makes that spell even better. 320 was not an above-par score and India were definitely in it because, once again according to you, they had the "greatest chaser of all-time" in their team along with the batsman of the tournament in Shikar Dhawan.

Those 43 runs were scored in a 20-over match. It says nothing about Kohli's ability to bat in a 50-over game. As for the 35, it is frankly shameful that you have to keep bringing that up to show how Kohli is not an absolute failure during big ODI games. Even if we were to give him a pass on that, that still leaves:

1) 2011 WC quarter-final (unless of course, your desperation makes you defend his 20 runs as well, lol)
2) 2011 WC semi-final (guess Umar Akmal and Hafeez also deserve a pass here. They scored around 35 runs and if that is good enough for Kohli, it is good enough for them).
3) 2015 WC quarter-final (owned by Bangladesh of all teams, lol)
4) 2015 WC semi-final (He was clearly out of his depth in the middle. One run for 11 balls is a pathetic way to approach a 300+ chase)
5) 2017 CT final (Dismissed twice by the real big-match player).

You can defend him all you like but deep down even you know that Kohli is not a big-match ODI batsman. If he has a similar showing next year, he'll go down as the biggest ODI choker of all-time.

Grant Elliot over Virat Kohli any day in a big ODI match.

You are banging the same drum that you always have to make yourself believe whatever it is you'd like to. Kohli has many clutch knocks. More than most. And he still has many more in the tank. He is not a choker for failing to chase ridiculous totals in knockout matches. All global tournaments come with a lot of pressure, irrespective of the format they are played in. He has never failed when we aren't chasing the awful 330+ targets. And failing to score against Bangla in quarters is considered a failure but scoring in semis against them in CT is avoided through some excuse. You are building yourself a make-believe world Bilal and only you live in it.

 

[Ab Fan]

I haven't really seen Dhawan score big pressure matches. Can you name any? I do know he does well in tournaments, but I'm talking about Semi-Finals and Finals.

CT 2013 semis vs SL
WC 2015 semis vs Australia
WC 2015 main matches vs SA and Pak
CT 2017 must win match vs SA
CT 2017 vs Pak and SL also

He was India's leading run scorer in WC 2015, CT 2013 and CT 2017. As clutch as you get.

He is a poor T20 player and only recently he is doing well in T20s.So, you might not remember his performances in WT20.

 

[Princejain191]

CT 2013 semis vs SL
WC 2015 semis vs Australia
WC 2015 main matches vs SA and Pak
CT 2017 must win match vs SA
CT 2017 vs Pak and SL also

He was India's leading run scorer in WC 2015, CT 2013 and CT 2017. As clutch as you get.

He is a poor T20 player and only recently he is doing well in T20s.So, you might not remember his performances in WT20.

Lol most of them are not high pressure according to legends on PP who face the pressure of running a country on daily basis. Dhawan failed in CT17 final - he is a choker.

 

[Sam99]

Dhawan is big tournament player not sure about pressure final matches. Virat is good only in t20s in pressure matches and Bhuvi is complete joke (worse than Jayasuriya in bowling avg dept)

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Kohli is obviously a big match player, yes he failed on two big instances but both times he was chasing a 330+ score which NO BATSMAN ever had done.
He is the best chaser coz no body is better than him not because he is invincible.

His 76 against sa was in a virtual quarter final but haters will ignore it for sure coz only those matches count as pressure games in which kohli fails.
Even his 50 odd against sl in ct semi
is ignored.
And of course wc knockouts are only a subset of pressure matches.