Black Lives Matter thread

[Bigboii]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION], asking again. Why in US, the black females are 4 times more likely to be killed by their partners compared to white females? What is the reason behind this?

Poverty

 

[RajBan]

Poverty

How is poverty justification for murder?

 

[Technics 1210]

How is poverty justification for murder?

It isn't and who said it is? This is the point; blacks will blame poverty, but lets not forget the about the guns, drugs, alcohol etc.

 

[Bigboii]

How is poverty justification for murder?

Reason not justification...

 

[CricketCartoons]

Poverty

I will still wait for his answer, as he seems to know a lot about the role race plays in everything.

But how come when blacks are put in jail or are victims of police, it is because of their race, and when they are perpetrators of savage crimes it is because of their poverty? Very convenient.

 

[Bigboii]

Poverty is the core reason for a lot of crime

 

[guna]

How is poverty justification for murder?

They seem to be stuck in a cycle of violence. Not all Black families will be like that of course. I feel that for a community to make progress, right kind of role models need to come up. They need a thousand MLK's to come up at once to change their mindset.

 

[guna]

I will still wait for his answer, as he seems to know a lot about the role race plays in everything.

But how come when blacks are put in jail or are victims of police, it is because of their race, and when they are perpetrators of savage crimes it is because of their poverty? Very convenient.

It is the Left political propaganda. They are one of the reasons why Black people are still stuck in poverty.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Poverty is the core reason for a lot of crime

You mean that BLM should be called PLM (poor lives matter)?

 

[Technics 1210]

They seem to be stuck in a cycle of violence. Not all Black families will be like that of course. I feel that for a community to make progress, right kind of role models need to come up. They need a thousand MLK's to come up at once to change their mindset.

Micheal Jordan
Oprah Winfrey
Tiger Woods
Johnnie Cochran
Barrack Obama

That's just off the top of my head.

Blacks have more role models than any non-white race on the planet.

 

[Technics 1210]

It is the Left political propaganda. They are one of the reasons why Black people are still stuck in poverty.

Black people are stuck in poverty mainly due to victimhood.

There are countless stories of how blacks moved out of poverty through hard work.

 

[Technics 1210]

I will still wait for his answer, as he seems to know a lot about the role race plays in everything.

But how come when blacks are put in jail or are victims of police, it is because of their race, and when they are perpetrators of savage crimes it is because of their poverty? Very convenient.

This. Your last para is exactly what people have realised over the years.

 

[Bigboii]

They seem to be stuck in a cycle of violence. Not all Black families will be like that of course. I feel that for a community to make progress, right kind of role models need to come up. They need a thousand MLK's to come up at once to change their mindset.

No it won't

Only thing that can make a change is economic change

Cut the welfare

Put that money into school systems, technical skills, small business loans
everything will get better on its on

And people especially indians have this superiority complex of sort in ragards to black people that my spidy senses are picking up...

You put a generationally poor man from India in the same situation hell do the same things as a poor black man do in inner city forget centuries of enslavement

 

[RajBan]

No it won't

Only thing that can make a change is economic change

Cut the welfare

Put that money into school systems, technical skills, small business loans
everything will get better on its on

And people especially indians have this superiority complex of sort in ragards to black people that my spidy senses are picking up...

You put a generationally poor man from India in the same situation hell do the same things as a poor black man do in inner city forget centuries of enslavement

Indians certainly know a thing or two about enslavement, social discrimination and how inspite of all those troubles honest hard work and grabbing opportunities that come their way can lead to both economic and social upliftment. They also have their fair share who are lazy, ready to give excuses of not getting everything their way and remain in economic disadvantage. But here is the thing, in most of those cases while conditions in terms of education , infrastructure, health services are not perfect, those who prosper do this inspite of all the challenges rather than cribbing and those who don't are themselves to blame as a primary reason for not doing enough (barring few regions where feudal societies are still strong).

There is a saying - You can take the horse to the river, but if he declines to have water, it will be very difficult to quench his thirst. Indians have quite a few of those horses. It's likely Blacks have as well and denial won't help.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION], asking again. Why in US, the black females are 4 times more likely to be killed by their partners compared to white females? What is the reason behind this?

What do you think the reason is?

 

[James]

How bizarre and surprising to discover that at least three of the people on this forum who understand the concept of structural racism are born-and-bred Brits (myself, Robert, Rishwat), and two of us are white.

 

[Technics 1210]

How bizarre and surprising to discover that at least three of the people on this forum who understand the concept of structural racism are born-and-bred Brits (myself, Robert, Rishwat), and two of us are white.

I think most of us in UK understand what structural racism is, some of us are saying Roberts examples of it are simply not true.

 

[Technics 1210]

No it won't

Only thing that can make a change is economic change

Cut the welfare

Put that money into school systems, technical skills, small business loans
everything will get better on its on

And people especially indians have this superiority complex of sort in ragards to black people that my spidy senses are picking up...

You put a generationally poor man from India in the same situation hell do the same things as a poor black man do in inner city forget centuries of enslavement

I have always maintained austerity is the root cause of facism and racism.

Cutting welfare etc will not help though.

What has to change is the underlying model of western capitalism and the distribution of wealth. In particular, debt.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What do you think the reason is?

I want to learn from the expert. Waiting for his reply.

 

[CricketCartoons]

How bizarre and surprising to discover that at least three of the people on this forum who understand the concept of structural racism are born-and-bred Brits (myself, Robert, Rishwat), and two of us are white.

More people will understand this concept if you (or the other two) share the data. Show us the data that a white murderer is less likely to be jailed compared to a black murderer. Show us the light.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How bizarre and surprising to discover that at least three of the people on this forum who understand the concept of structural racism are born-and-bred Brits (myself, Robert, Rishwat), and two of us are white.

I think living deeply inside white society is a key here. A lot of posters are looking from outside, and what they are saying isn't necessarily untrue, just missing some depth. Britain is miles ahead of most countries in a lot of ways, but there are reasons for that as well.

 

[sweep_shot]

Valencia: Alleged racist comment sees team leave pitch

Valencia walked off the pitch during Sunday's 2-1 La Liga defeat at Cadiz after an alleged racist comment, before later returning to complete the match.

Mouctar Diakhaby reacted furiously after a first-half clash with Cadiz's Juan Cala and spoke with the referee.

Valencia's players left the pitch in protest and the club said Diakhaby, 24, "received a racial insult".

He later asked his team-mates to return and they resumed the game but without Diakhaby, who was substituted.

Valencia defender Jose Gaya said after the game that the team either had to resume playing or risk a points deduction.

"Diakhaby told us he heard a racist insult so we all went off the pitch," Gaya told Spanish network Movistar.

"We were told that we had to play because if we didn't, they would take the three points off us and maybe we'd be docked more points.

"Diakhaby asked us to play on. We wouldn't have done so if he hadn't done so. He said he wasn't in the right state of mind to keep playing. He is devastated."

The game was 1-1 at the time, with Kevin Gameiro having equalised after Spanish defender Cala opened the scoring for Cadiz.

Cala, 31, was also substituted at half-time, before Marcos Mauro's 88th-minute goal gave Cadiz a 2-1 victory.

"We offer our complete backing to Mouctar Diakhaby," Valencia said of the decision to return to the pitch.

"The team have held a meeting and decided to continue the game, in order to fight for the honour of the club, but denounce racism of any kind."

Gaya said he had heard the comment Cala made to Diakhaby.

He added: "It was a very ugly insult which I won't repeat. We haven't been able to speak with Cala because he was the last player to leave the pitch. I'm certain that he said something. It was a very strange game."

Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56633404.

 

[Bigboii]

Indians certainly know a thing or two about enslavement, social discrimination and how inspite of all those troubles honest hard work and grabbing opportunities that come their way can lead to both economic and social upliftment. They also have their fair share who are lazy, ready to give excuses of not getting everything their way and remain in economic disadvantage. But here is the thing, in most of those cases while conditions in terms of education , infrastructure, health services are not perfect, those who prosper do this inspite of all the challenges rather than cribbing and those who don't are themselves to blame as a primary reason for not doing enough (barring few regions where feudal societies are still strong).

There is a saying - You can take the horse to the river, but if he declines to have water, it will be very difficult to quench his thirst. Indians have quite a few of those horses. It's likely Blacks have as well and denial won't help.

So basically blacks are just lazy and don't work hard enough?

 

[RajBan]

So basically blacks are just lazy and don't work hard enough?

You probably did not get my message. My take in plain and simple terms is inspite of all the welfare and help that is extended by the Government and society in general a certain section prefers to stay in welfare and not necessarily grabs those opportunities and be independent because they are comfortable when things are given to them for free. And they are the ones who crib the most and make it political if things don't go their way while everything actually is given to them in a plate. It is what I have seen in India , it is what I have seen in America.

You can always point out to the centuries of subjugation and social injustices and all of it wil remain true. But many blacks work hard inspite of that, they excel at their professional places, they send their children to school for a better education, when they return home in the evening they sit with their children to understand what happened in school and help them to prepare for the next day. They had the the option to complain on their destiny but they did not like some others.

 

[Bigboii]

You probably did not get my message. My take in plain and simple terms is inspite of all the welfare and help that is extended by the Government and society in general a certain section prefers to stay in welfare and not necessarily grabs those opportunities and be independent because they are comfortable when things are given to them for free. And they are the ones who crib the most and make it political if things don't go their way while everything actually is given to them in a plate. It is what I have seen in India , it is what I have seen in America.

You can always point out to the centuries of subjugation and social injustices and all of it wil remain true. But many blacks work hard inspite of that, they excel at their professional places, they send their children to school for a better education, when they return home in the evening they sit with their children to understand what happened in school and help them to prepare for the next day. They had the the option to complain on their destiny but they did not like some others.

So we basically agree
Welfare are terrible that's why my solutions for the problem were related to powering black people by teaching the people how to fish
Cutting welfare and investing in people who want to work and US as the richest country on Planet is more than capable of it

No it won't

Only thing that can make a change is economic change

Cut the welfare

Put that money into school systems, technical skills, small business loans
everything will get better on its on

And people especially indians have this superiority complex of sort in ragards to black people that my spidy senses are picking up...

You put a generationally poor man from India in the same situation hell do the same things as a poor black man do in inner city forget centuries of enslavement

 

[Bigboii]

You probably did not get my message. My take in plain and simple terms is inspite of all the welfare and help that is extended by the Government and society in general a certain section prefers to stay in welfare and not necessarily grabs those opportunities and be independent because they are comfortable when things are given to them for free. And they are the ones who crib the most and make it political if things don't go their way while everything actually is given to them in a plate. It is what I have seen in India , it is what I have seen in America.

You can always point out to the centuries of subjugation and social injustices and all of it wil remain true. But many blacks work hard inspite of that, they excel at their professional places, they send their children to school for a better education, when they return home in the evening they sit with their children to understand what happened in school and help them to prepare for the next day. They had the the option to complain on their destiny but they did not like some others.

But not doing anything is a terrible look gov job is to empower the poorer sections especially for a country like US so sitting on thier a** is not an option

 

[RajBan]

So we basically agree
Welfare are terrible that's why my solutions for the problem were related to powering black people by teaching the people how to fish
Cutting welfare and investing in people who want to work and US as the richest country on Planet is more than capable of it

Absolutely. Welfare is needed but should be targeted to people who genuinely needs it. Welfare often gets exploited as political tools and the lazy mass.

All for empowering people .

 

[Robert]

So we basically agree
Welfare are terrible that's why my solutions for the problem were related to powering black people by teaching the people how to fish
Cutting welfare and investing in people who want to work and US as the richest country on Planet is more than capable of it

That will just push more and more Americans into abject poverty. Nearly all that wealth you boast is concentrated in very few hands. What you are talking about is the return of the workhouse. There has to be a safety net below which people cannot fall.

No. Look at examples from Scandinavia. Raise taxes, spend money on education and social programmes, have unionised workforces and good state pensions, and poverty and crime will start to come down.

 

[Robert]

Whites have done more for Blacks than blacks have.

Forget USA and UK, look at Africa. Not a single BLM supporter says a thing about the injustices in Africa.

In 1980s, Ethiopia was suffering from famine. Millions of children were dying but not a single black person in the West stood up. It took a white man; Bob Geldof to do something about it.

If Blacks do not respect their own race, they have no right to demand respect from other races.

An Irish man, so he understands structural racism and oppression too.

USA for Africa was led by Quincy Jones.

You ignore the role of the UN. That’s not just “whites”. It just so happens that “white lands” Europe and USA have lots of money.

 

[Robert]

How bizarre and surprising to discover that at least three of the people on this forum who understand the concept of structural racism are born-and-bred Brits (myself, Robert, Rishwat), and two of us are white.

It’s important to remember that much of the desi community looks down on blacks. Perhaps because the British set imported Indians up as the middle class in Kenya and other nations, about the black natives?

The Empire didn’t devastate Subcontinent culture to the same extent as it did African-Caribbean culture, eradicating religion and language and literacy, deliberately splitting up family and tribal units.

 

[Robert]

I want to learn from the expert. Waiting for his reply.

It took me a long time to work this one out.

If you treat people humanely, they usually act humanely. If you treat people systemically inhumanely, some will become inhumanity.

They can’t get at the levers of the white power structure so they take out their frustrations on their own people. Destroying their own neighbourhood, battering their women, killing each other.

Like the trumpeter in Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom which I suggest you watch.

 

[CricketCartoons]

It’s important to remember that much of the desi community looks down on blacks. Perhaps because the British set imported Indians up as the middle class in Kenya and other nations, about the black natives?

The Empire didn’t devastate Subcontinent culture to the same extent as it did African-Caribbean culture, eradicating religion and language and literacy, deliberately splitting up family and tribal units.

so desis look down upon blacks because the whites put the browns above the blacks in the color spectrum. And while the whites started treating blacks as infants who needed to be saved by the whites, the desis have been slow to copy the whites and continue to look down upon the blacks.

 

[CricketCartoons]

It took me a long time to work this one out.

If you treat people humanely, they usually act humanely. If you treat people systemically inhumanely, some will become inhumanity.

They can’t get at the levers of the white power structure so they take out their frustrations on their own people. Destroying their own neighbourhood, battering their women, killing each other.

Like the trumpeter in Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom which I suggest you watch.

In short, the disproportional black on black violence compared to white on white violence is because the blacks have been oppressed by the whites.

 

[topspin]

We know racism towards black among Desis is rampant as it has always been.

Desis don't let our sisters and daughters marry black men all because of the colour of their skin.

Your opposition to the BLM is just another form of your covert racism.

 

[Bigboii]

That will just push more and more Americans into abject poverty. Nearly all that wealth you boast is concentrated in very few hands. What you are talking about is the return of the workhouse. There has to be a safety net below which people cannot fall.

No. Look at examples from Scandinavia. Raise taxes, spend money on education and social programmes, have unionised workforces and good state pensions, and poverty and crime will start to come down.

Put that money into school systems, technical skills, small business loans

This is teaching people how to make money, giving tham skills to make money

You can't keep repeating the cycle of providing for people and making the system over bloated

It never works you should never incentivize people to stay in the same economic conditions

Scandanevia is a small country, homogeneous country it's reality is totally different from how US works especially it's gov departments...

Living standards of most people in the US are a whole lot better due to lassie faire economy and less power to the gov

Compare US to any decently sized country with decent population US will come out on top in living standards

The rich is rich but also everyone has economic opportunity, the poor is also growing with the rich (not at the same pace as rich but still growing and prospering)

This is what matters as long as it's net positive it's good!

(Btw scandanevia tax the hell out of poor and middle with up to 70% type taxes while corporate taxes are lower so at the end of the day it's the people who fed themselves not the rich class)

 

[Robert]

Put that money into school systems, technical skills, small business loans

This is teaching people how to make money, giving tham skills to make money

You can't keep repeating the cycle of providing for people and making the system over bloated

It never works you should never incentivize people to stay in the same economic conditions

Scandanevia is a small country, homogeneous country it's reality is totally different from how US works especially it's gov departments...

Living standards of most people in the US are a whole lot better due to lassie faire economy and less power to the gov

Compare US to any decently sized country with decent population US will come out on top in living standards

The rich is rich but also everyone has economic opportunity, the poor is also growing with the rich (not at the same pace as rich but still growing and prospering)

This is what matters as long as it's net positive it's good!

(Btw scandanevia tax the hell out of poor and middle with up to 70% type taxes while corporate taxes are lower so at the end of the day it's the people who fed themselves not the rich class)

The Scandis accept high taxation because they want to put into society as a whole. They are the happiest people on Earth. Free university education and very low crime.

Americans are taught that they have to hack out their slice of the pie, and that means a lock of social cohesion. There is real poverty among whites too in some of the rural states too.

 

[Technics 1210]

The Scandis accept high taxation because they want to put into society as a whole. They are the happiest people on Earth. Free university education and very low crime.

University isn't not free, it's funded through the tax payer.

 

[RajBan]

Put that money into school systems, technical skills, small business loans

This is teaching people how to make money, giving tham skills to make money

You can't keep repeating the cycle of providing for people and making the system over bloated

It never works you should never incentivize people to stay in the same economic conditions

Scandanevia is a small country, homogeneous country it's reality is totally different from how US works especially it's gov departments...

Living standards of most people in the US are a whole lot better due to lassie faire economy and less power to the gov

Compare US to any decently sized country with decent population US will come out on top in living standards

The rich is rich but also everyone has economic opportunity, the poor is also growing with the rich (not at the same pace as rich but still growing and prospering)

This is what matters as long as it's net positive it's good!

(Btw scandanevia tax the hell out of poor and middle with up to 70% type taxes while corporate taxes are lower so at the end of the day it's the people who fed themselves not the rich class)

Th is is true. Scandanavia is a wrong example to quote. They don't have the cut throat competition for survival like US and UK.

 

[RajBan]

We know racism towards black among Desis is rampant as it has always been.

Desis don't let our sisters and daughters marry black men all because of the colour of their skin.

Your opposition to the BLM is just another form of your covert racism.

Is this a satire or are you serious? Desis are usually a protective society and parents likely to have an opinion if sons and daughters marry into other communities specially if it is another non Desi - white , black, latino etc. You may say that many Desis actually marry white and that is true because those Desis(a section of the Desi population) probably have been to the same school or office as their white counterparts and hence part of a cosmopolitan crowd. That's not necessarily racism.

One can't complain of racism because some girl refuses to date him or refuses to sleep with him. That does not make any sense, if at all that is regressive and weird sense of medieval entitlement.

 

[ElRaja]

It’s important to remember that much of the desi community looks down on blacks. Perhaps because the British set imported Indians up as the middle class in Kenya and other nations, about the black natives?

the vast majority of desi people in this country have zero connection to africa or the Caribbean so i dont buy the explanation. the indian subcontinent has an very deep obsession with fair skin and there can be tonnes of potential explanations where it came from.

The Scandis accept high taxation because they want to put into society as a whole. They are the happiest people on Earth. Free university education and very low crime.

Americans are taught that they have to hack out their slice of the pie, and that means a lock of social cohesion. There is real poverty among whites too in some of the rural states too.

scandis put into society because for the most part they know they're governments are relatively accountable. if they saw there tax money being drowned into corporate welfare im pretty sure theyd also have a problem with high tax rates.

its a lot easier seeing the benefits of your taxes in a country of 5 to 10 million people versus the US, which is basically a continent that uses tax payer money to exercise global influence.

How bizarre and surprising to discover that at least three of the people on this forum who understand the concept of structural racism are born-and-bred Brits (myself, Robert, Rishwat), and two of us are white.

structural racism exists, but no where near the extent that it would make social progression for ethnics impossible.

you may not agree with me, but its something outside our (britpaks) immediate control.

i tell my mates (britpak and other) work hard, make ur money, invest, educate your kids, teach them about building assets and managing money and where u can give a bro a chance to tag along to your success. i know this aint the utopian view of a post racial society but its the only thing within our control.

what do britpaks like the ones on this forum have to gain from dwelling on the intricacies of structural racism?

 

[Bigboii]

scandis put into society because for the most part they know they're governments are relatively accountable. if they saw there tax money being drowned into corporate welfare im pretty sure theyd also have a problem with high tax rates.

its a lot easier seeing the benefits of your taxes in a country of 5 to 10 million people versus the US, which is basically a continent that uses tax payer money to exercise global influence.

exactly last thing that Americans trust their own gov..
Every new tax goes to war, corporate tax cuts, defense of other countries

 

[Robert]

Th is is true. Scandanavia is a wrong example to quote. They don't have the cut throat competition for survival like US and UK.

And are better countries for it.

 

[RajBan]

And are better countries for it.

That's subjective. Definitely better for Scandanavians but I don't see many US citizens aspiring to shift their base.

 

[Stewie]

That's subjective. Definitely better for Scandanavians but I don't see many US citizens aspiring to shift their base.

Seriously? Why would Americans want to go somewhere where they have to learn a new language? Why would Americans want to go anywhere for that matter?

Some people live here in subject poverty. California has a huge homeless people problem.
Why aren’t more Americans leaving?

Because they don’t know there is anything outside america, that’s your answer. Most Americans live and die in the state they were born in. Most never venture outside. It’s very rare. America is a cocoon. People talk about going to Canada for good but there is already plenty of RW rhetoric about how these countries are now socialist republics, with extremely high taxes, zero freedoms, and no go zones where Muslims have taken over (Canada, Europe, etc)

 

[Technics 1210]

An Irish man, so he understands structural racism and oppression too.

USA for Africa was led by Quincy Jones.

You ignore the role of the UN. That’s not just “whites”. It just so happens that “white lands” Europe and USA have lots of money.

Hang on. So when a white person helps a black person we should look at the ethnicity of the white person, but when a black person is a victim of a person man, then we look at the colour of skin?

 

[Technics 1210]

* when a black man is a victim of a white person

 

[RajBan]

Seriously? Why would Americans want to go somewhere where they have to learn a new language? Why would Americans want to go anywhere for that matter?

Some people live here in subject poverty. California has a huge homeless people problem.
Why aren’t more Americans leaving?

Because they don’t know there is anything outside america, that’s your answer. Most Americans live and die in the state they were born in. Most never venture outside. It’s very rare. America is a cocoon. People talk about going to Canada for good but there is already plenty of RW rhetoric about how these countries are now socialist republics, with extremely high taxes, zero freedoms, and no go zones where Muslims have taken over (Canada, Europe, etc)

What I meant was an US citizen will likely stay in US as that is his homeland for generations inspite of all the day to day challenges.

 

[Stewie]

What I meant was an US citizen will likely stay in US as that is his homeland for generations inspite of all the day to day challenges.

That part I agree with.

On BLM, though, let me just share a few thoughts that I am sure some of you have already read on different threads.
In the US, this is a genuine cause. Now like all other causes, if some people are starting to abuse it, well thats too bad.. but it doesnt nullify the cause. even if you dont think any of the shootings are uncalled for, you have to admit there is systemic racism in the States. It is so funny most posters would try and counter that with different arguments but being a Pakistani I know for a fact how racist Pakistanis and Indians are towards blacks and generally speaking against people with darker complexions.

I also noticed a lot of the PPers opposing BLM are those who dont live in the states. I dont know what is the cause of their particular opposition against BLM, maybe there was also undue unrest and violence on their streets in the name of BLM.. who knows??
But ill end my thoughts with this statement. If we (muslims/Pakistanis) can complain about the world stereotyping us as terrorists and lumping us in with ISIS/Al Qaeda/Taliban, etc mainly because of our race/religion.. whatever, what is generally our argument? Isnt it "Well if a small minority of folks are using the name of our religion to do evil deeds, doesnt mean we are all evil"

Same argument applies here.. BLM is a just cause but just because some people have used it to loot stores/destroy properties, etc does not mean that black people do not get targeted for extraordinary police harassment and violence and that they do not get subjected to racial discrimination.

If we continue to lump them all in with the looters and thugs, then are being hypocrites!

 

[RajBan]

That part I agree with.

On BLM, though, let me just share a few thoughts that I am sure some of you have already read on different threads.
In the US, this is a genuine cause. Now like all other causes, if some people are starting to abuse it, well thats too bad.. but it doesnt nullify the cause. even if you dont think any of the shootings are uncalled for, you have to admit there is systemic racism in the States. It is so funny most posters would try and counter that with different arguments but being a Pakistani I know for a fact how racist Pakistanis and Indians are towards blacks and generally speaking against people with darker complexions.

I also noticed a lot of the PPers opposing BLM are those who dont live in the states. I dont know what is the cause of their particular opposition against BLM, maybe there was also undue unrest and violence on their streets in the name of BLM.. who knows??
But ill end my thoughts with this statement. If we (muslims/Pakistanis) can complain about the world stereotyping us as terrorists and lumping us in with ISIS/Al Qaeda/Taliban, etc mainly because of our race/religion.. whatever, what is generally our argument? Isnt it "Well if a small minority of folks are using the name of our religion to do evil deeds, doesnt mean we are all evil"

Same argument applies here.. BLM is a just cause but just because some people have used it to loot stores/destroy properties, etc does not mean that black people do not get targeted for extraordinary police harassment and violence and that they do not get subjected to racial discrimination.

If we continue to lump them all in with the looters and thugs, then are being hypocrites!

Stewie- Agree with everything that you have written and that is exactly what some of us trying to say in essence from a different angle

Agree that not every black is a thug, we can't and should not generalize a community because of few and those few are also in many cases result of discrimination , poverty , lack of opportunity etc

Likewise not every white is a racist and out there to harm the blacks. Yes the system has been wrong and they were part of the system , but it is also a large section of the whites who raise their voices to change their society to a more rational and inclusive one inspite of one dimensional media narrative.

Similarly don't stereotype the Desis as well. Yes , Desis are racists but believe me that kind of racism is part of every community which is majorly due to lack of cultural understanding of others and it's true for not just Desis, but Arabs, Blacks, Latinos, Chinese every society. In the global world as they come in contact with each other , there are cultural frictions and then gradual assimilation from their onwards. Think about the India and Pakistan not just now but last 500-700 years when it was an united entity. We had multiple cultures and languages side by side , and naturally where there are unknowns, one would have questions and weird judgements of others at times based on your culture but rarely there has been a history of consistent racial killing and discrimination by one set of people over other. So to say Desis are racist is a very blanket statement and lack any nuances. Infact long before Globalization , Desis were already an organic synthesis of myriad of culture and languages, definitely with biases but without the violence that has been rampant in other regions between tribes and factions.

 

[Robert]

That's subjective. Definitely better for Scandanavians but I don't see many US citizens aspiring to shift their base.

I bet they might to get socialised health care, when they see what a racket the US medical system is.

On the other hand I would not see many Scandis moving to the USA. What possible advantage could there be?

 

[CricketCartoons]

being a Pakistani I know for a fact how racist Pakistanis and Indians are towards blacks and generally speaking against people with darker complexions.

So indians and pakistanis are not racists against chinese or people who look chinese. And indians and pakistanis are definitely not racist towards whites. Got it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I bet they might to get socialised health care, when they see what a racket the US medical system is.

On the other hand I would not see many Scandis moving to the USA. What possible advantage could there be?

Good weather and that's about it.

 

[Robert]

Hang on. So when a white person helps a black person we should look at the ethnicity of the white person, but when a black person is a victim of a person man, then we look at the colour of skin?

No. You mentioned one specific individual Irishman. I mentioned another specific individual American. Look at Irish history. The Irish were subjugated and oppressed by the English for centuries. That may have helped Mr Geldof empathise with the plight of the East Africans. Or maybe he’s just a good guy.

Curious that no black artists appeared n Live Aid though. No Eddie Grant, Steel Pulse, Aswad, Labi Siffre, Joan Armatrading. Were they asked?

 

[CricketCartoons]

We know racism towards black among Desis is rampant as it has always been.

Desis don't let our sisters and daughters marry black men all because of the colour of their skin.

Your opposition to the BLM is just another form of your covert racism.

Endogamy is not racism. Marrying people who come from better socio-economic background is also not racism.

 

[RajBan]

I bet they might to get socialised health care, when they see what a racket the US medical system is.

On the other hand I would not see many Scandis moving to the USA. What possible advantage could there be?

Weather is an immediate response. Diverse cosmopolitan culture in urban areas is another.

If one is ready to work hard and have high business or corporate aspirations, US is an excellent place to be inspite of the insurance mafia, gun culture and screwed up public transport. US is not perfect but it is a damn good country for its 35cr population.

 

[CricketCartoons]

That may have helped Mr Geldof empathise with the plight of the East Africans. Or maybe he’s just a good guy.

Wonder why you don't apply this "may have" and "maybe" when a police officer is catching a black with a long criminal past. Maybe the police officer hated criminals and was color blind, maybe the officer wanted to keep the neighbourhood crime free.

 

[Robert]

Weather is an immediate response. Diverse cosmopolitan culture in urban areas is another.

If one is ready to work hard and have high business or corporate aspirations, US is an excellent place to be inspite of the insurance mafia, gun culture and screwed up public transport. US is not perfect but it is a damn good country for its 35cr population.

Well, I wouldn’t live there. I would live in Canada, though. Or the southern parts of Norway or Sweden.

 

[Robert]

Wonder why you don't apply this "may have" and "maybe" when a police officer is catching a black with a long criminal past. Maybe the police officer hated criminals and was color blind, maybe the officer wanted to keep the neighbourhood crime free.

Firstly, said officer has a long history of such incidents. Secondly, a criminal record does not mean a citizen deserves to be murdered.

You come across as a person who sided with the power structure whether it does the right thing or not. Try to judge case by case and stick up for what is humane and decent.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Firstly, said officer has a long history of such incidents. Secondly, a criminal record does not mean a citizen deserves to be murdered.

You come across as a person who sided with the power structure whether it does the right thing or not. Try to judge case by case and stick up for what is humane and decent.

Was it murder or manslaughter? How many criminals were killed by the officer during arrest? You take the liberty of generous use of "may be" when it suits you, but there is no room for "may be" for the officer, because calling him a white racist who hates blacks is the humane and decent thing to do? Like you attributed black on black violence on the whites.

I only side with what is correct, not what is politically correct.

 

[Stewie]

Stewie- Agree with everything that you have written and that is exactly what some of us trying to say in essence from a different angle

Agree that not every black is a thug, we can't and should not generalize a community because of few and those few are also in many cases result of discrimination , poverty , lack of opportunity etc

Likewise not every white is a racist and out there to harm the blacks. Yes the system has been wrong and they were part of the system , but it is also a large section of the whites who raise their voices to change their society to a more rational and inclusive one inspite of one dimensional media narrative.

Similarly don't stereotype the Desis as well. Yes , Desis are racists but believe me that kind of racism is part of every community which is majorly due to lack of cultural understanding of others and it's true for not just Desis, but Arabs, Blacks, Latinos, Chinese every society. In the global world as they come in contact with each other , there are cultural frictions and then gradual assimilation from their onwards. Think about the India and Pakistan not just now but last 500-700 years when it was an united entity. We had multiple cultures and languages side by side , and naturally where there are unknowns, one would have questions and weird judgements of others at times based on your culture but rarely there has been a history of consistent racial killing and discrimination by one set of people over other. So to say Desis are racist is a very blanket statement and lack any nuances. Infact long before Globalization , Desis were already an organic synthesis of myriad of culture and languages, definitely with biases but without the violence that has been rampant in other regions between tribes and factions.

I will not spend time discussing asians and their racist attitudes towards blacks.. but I will concede to you that as always and everything else, it’s not all of us.. getting into it will simply detail the topic.


Back to the topic at hand. You can honestly go over this entire thread and see why I said what I did. Some people here have made it clear what their thoughts are on BLM, and I am not saying it’s you, but it’s quite a few of the right leaning people here, from either side of the Pak-India border.

You cannot deny these people I pointed to do not exist because some of the posts on this thread are fairly appalling and disappointing when it comes to the hypocrisy of Asian people. They jump up and down when it’s them being subjected to discrimination or when they are stereotyped but have no problem doing it to others.

 

[Stewie]

So indians and pakistanis are not racists against chinese or people who look chinese. And indians and pakistanis are definitely not racist towards whites. Got it.

They are NOT! Whether you want to admit it or not. This is the age old subcontinental trend which might be dying out but in your country I have heard and read of way too many stories about skin whitening products, same with Pakistan too. Dark completed females cannot have a career in showbiz unless they whiten themselves up.

 

[CricketCartoons]

They are NOT! Whether you want to admit it or not. This is the age old subcontinental trend which might be dying out but in your country I have heard and read of way too many stories about skin whitening products, same with Pakistan too. Dark completed females cannot have a career in showbiz unless they whiten themselves up.

That is colorism at best, not racism. One family can have one fair and one dark sibling. The dark sibling doesn't become a separate race. Skin lightening is no different than skin tanning. This is not racism. Strange woke logic!

 

[CricketCartoons]

According to wokies, whites who go for skin tanning are racists, or only those who go for skin lightening are racists? What woke gymnastics is used to explain this, I wonder?

 

[Stewie]

Yes absolutely, you guys are simply “colorist” and not even one soul is racist in India. Blacks are all loved and cherished. Seems like you are harbhajan and think us “wokes” are aussies you are trying to convince you called us a maan ki gaali and not called us monkey.

Very very convincing argument like harbhajan’s I must say, cricketcartoon.. true to your name..
Cartoonish! Keep it up!

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes absolutely, you guys are simply “colorist” and not even one soul is racist in India. Blacks are all loved and cherished. Seems like you are harbhajan and think us “wokes” are aussies you are trying to convince you called us a maan ki gaali and not called us monkey.

Very very convincing argument like harbhajan’s I must say, cricketcartoon.. true to your name..
Cartoonish! Keep it up!

I was not debating if indians or racists or not, I was debating the stupid examples you cited. If using whitening products is racism, then skin tanning is also racism. What a joke! At least give better examples.

Your whole point was that desis are racists towards darker skin is wrong, as you havent shown any evidence to support it. Desis can be racists towards fair skin people as well.

cartoonish? Like your logic of terming siblings as separate race based on their skin tone?

 

[Bigboii]

Look I have no doubt that racism exist most minorities who have lived in the west for a long time and seen the culture in and out know that

No racism is a delusion

but the way people are combatting is creating more problems for society than solving them

 

[Stewie]

Look I have no doubt that racism exist most minorities who have lived in the west for a long time and seen the culture in and out know that

No racism is a delusion

but the way people are combatting is creating more problems for society than solving them

Please elaborate on "people" and what do you mean when you say they are "combatting" racism?

 

[Bigboii]

Please elaborate on "people" and what do you mean when you say they are "combatting" racism?

woke crowd, Enslaved liberals they are making a mess of it

They have facist tendencies, terrible for society
They incentivize poverty
They think throwing money can solve every problem of the world when it clearly doesn't
Instead of providing of equal opportunities focus is shifting to equal outcome

I can go on and on

Their ways are creating deep fundamental problems and if they are not stopped damage to the whole society at large will be immense

 

[Stewie]

woke crowd, Enslaved liberals they are making a mess of it

They have facist tendencies, terrible for society
They incentivize poverty
They think throwing money can solve every problem of the world when it clearly doesn't
Instead of providing of equal opportunities focus is shifting to equal outcome

I can go on and on

Their ways are creating deep fundamental problems and if they are not stopped damage to the whole society at large will be immense

So who is woke? What is the woke crowd? If I believe in BLM do i automatically qualify for these magnificent titles?

 

[MenInG]

Guys - stop getting personal and keep your calm

 

[Stewie]

just for the benefit of people BLM is not created by people who are asking for socialized benefits or promote fascism. They are just tired sick of being shot by cops, and not having their voice heard.

Does anybody remember colin kapernick? so he took a different approach. he was a silent protestor. but apparently that didnt sit well with people either. they labelled him a traitor for kneeling and protesting or not standing up for anthem, disrespecting the flag.. etc

So blacks cant protest in peace or silently, if they do protests, then they are labelled promoting violence. if people support their cause, they get labelled "woke" or "fascists" or promoting "socialized/fascist agenda" .. isnt all that over simplification or generalization? maybe some people do genuinely consider this to be a worthy cause and want an end to the inequality (without the violence and other negative nonsense).. can you label everybody as woke or the entire BLM cause as "wrong" under those pretenses?

I hope you understand what I am trying to say. I am not denying that some people have used this to promote their own agenda and they are as bad as anyone, but should we allow them to really distort the movement and take the attention away from the problem at hand?

 

[OMB]

Racism surely exists and BLM is a true movement. While whites (and why only whites, even Natives, Asians, Hispanics and Middle-easterners) must do more to eradicate this scourge, I have some basic questions

1) What are the Black Communities themselves doing to control this other than social media outbursts or taking a knee (not that it is not important)?

2) Why is is that Blacks suffer more than other communities like say Asians? cannot be poverty as the Hispanics are also poor and so were the native Indians who are all but diminished.

3) Why is it that in a land where the rule of law is quick and decisive (comparing to India) do the Blacks feel Justice is denied to them?

 

[Robert]

woke crowd, Enslaved liberals they are making a mess of it

They have facist tendencies, terrible for society
They incentivize poverty
They think throwing money can solve every problem of the world when it clearly doesn't
Instead of providing of equal opportunities focus is shifting to equal outcome

I can go on and on

Their ways are creating deep fundamental problems and if they are not stopped damage to the whole society at large will be immense

Ok, you know fascist and liberal are diametric opposites?

USA needs more social programmes not less. Then you will start to catch up to Western Europe.

 

[Robert]

Was it murder or manslaughter? How many criminals were killed by the officer during arrest? You take the liberty of generous use of "may be" when it suits you, but there is no room for "may be" for the officer, because calling him a white racist who hates blacks is the humane and decent thing to do? Like you attributed black on black violence on the whites.

I only side with what is correct, not what is politically correct.

That’s what the court case is for. All the maybes will be burned away and we will learn what is correct. I hope.

 

[CricketCartoons]

That’s what the court case is for. All the maybes will be burned away and we will learn what is correct. I hope.

But people have already termed the officer as racist before the court case, including you. The maybes are applied on convenience.

 

[CricketCartoons]

just for the benefit of people BLM is not created by people who are asking for socialized benefits or promote fascism. They are just tired sick of being shot by cops, and not having their voice heard.

Blacks are marginalized in general, and they have every right to protest against bigotry towards them. But to put all the blame squarely on that is lazy and blacks should also do something about what they call the "black culture". Poverty doesn't explain their violence. If hindus kill muslims, should it be justified or sympatheized with that it is because of years of being under muslim rule, and that is the cause of the violence? Or will you ask people to take responsibility for their actions instead of blaming everything on the whites? BLM without soul searching is meaningless and hollow.

 

[Stewie]

Racism surely exists and BLM is a true movement. While whites (and why only whites, even Natives, Asians, Hispanics and Middle-easterners) must do more to eradicate this scourge, I have some basic questions

1) What are the Black Communities themselves doing to control this other than social media outbursts or taking a knee (not that it is not important)?

2) Why is is that Blacks suffer more than other communities like say Asians? cannot be poverty as the Hispanics are also poor and so were the native Indians who are all but diminished.

3) Why is it that in a land where the rule of law is quick and decisive (comparing to India) do the Blacks feel Justice is denied to them?

1)BLM movement IS created by the Black community to manage this but it is quite clear that some factions have thrown a very neagative light on it and it is under attack by a campaign of character assassination and being completely misconstrued. Blacks do also have protests but the law authorities in the USA have had a record of using very different standards to handling those protests as compared to those conducted by whites (capitol riots are an example).

2) Obviously it is the prejudice and bias of people towards them. They are stereotyped as the criminal or uneducated class in the country. and because of that they are denied opportunities other minorities are not. Why and how they ended up in this mess is a long story. But when you have been subjugated for years, not even considered a human being and you have to fight for your rights, you develop some rebellious tendencies and there have been blacks who were completely disenfranchised with their situation and turned to crime. I am not justifying their actions but shedding light on them and why their situation is different from other minorities who by and large came over to the US of their own accord (asians, latinos, etc) and were never enslaved or had that "baggage" or of slavery or the chip on their shoulder.

3) The rule of the law in the US is quick and decisive but not entirely fair. This part may have to do more with classicism than racism (or maybe a bit of both).. if you have money.. lots of it.. you can get good legal representation that can get you away with murder (OJ simpson) or other major crimes. But if not, they can come own on you hard. Petty criminals have faced 12-15 years for selling a bag of weed, whereas those who committed crimes worth millions got away scot free or did a few weeks in jail.
The legal system here is very pro "established" norms and the word of he policeman trumps your word every single time in the USA, unless (again refer to the point about quality legal representation)
So obviously blacks, a poor minority overall, is going to struggle in such situations. But I intentionally made an effort to use OJ Simpson as an example here (because he is black) because I feel this has more to do with classicism than racism and blacks are basically victims of their circumstances here than race.

But when it comes to police brutality, the numbers are obviously very skewed towards them. WHY?
I think its because the same problem of stereotyping blacks as criminals is also with the police departments who view black men as genuine threats and develop itchy fingers when dealing with them. Thats my take on it.

 

[OMB]

1)BLM movement IS created by the Black community to manage this but it is quite clear that some factions have thrown a very neagative light on it and it is under attack by a campaign of character assassination and being completely misconstrued. Blacks do also have protests but the law authorities in the USA have had a record of using very different standards to handling those protests as compared to those conducted by whites (capitol riots are an example).



2) Obviously it is the prejudice and bias of people towards them. They are stereotyped as the criminal or uneducated class in the country. and because of that they are denied opportunities other minorities are not. Why and how they ended up in this mess is a long story. But when you have been subjugated for years, not even considered a human being and you have to fight for your rights, you develop some rebellious tendencies and there have been blacks who were completely disenfranchised with their situation and turned to crime. I am not justifying their actions but shedding light on them and why their situation is different from other minorities who by and large came over to the US of their own accord (asians, latinos, etc) and were never enslaved or had that "baggage" or of slavery or the chip on their shoulder.


3) The rule of the law in the US is quick and decisive but not entirely fair. This part may have to do more with classicism than racism (or maybe a bit of both).. if you have money.. lots of it.. you can get good legal representation that can get you away with murder (OJ simpson) or other major crimes. But if not, they can come own on you hard. Petty criminals have faced 12-15 years for selling a bag of weed, whereas those who committed crimes worth millions got away scot free or did a few weeks in jail.
The legal system here is very pro "established" norms and the word of he policeman trumps your word every single time in the USA, unless (again refer to the point about quality legal representation)
So obviously blacks, a poor minority overall, is going to struggle in such situations. But I intentionally made an effort to use OJ Simpson as an example here (because he is black) because I feel this has more to do with classicism than racism and blacks are basically victims of their circumstances here than race.

But when it comes to police brutality, the numbers are obviously very skewed towards them. WHY?
I think its because the same problem of stereotyping blacks as criminals is also with the police departments who view black men as genuine threats and develop itchy fingers when dealing with them. Thats my take on it.

1) Yes, I agree that BLM was created by blacks. It is a genuine movement creating awareness in the minds of whites who possess impressionable frame of mind and acts as a deterrent for those who do not. But Blacks have to do more. If somebody has to solve this issue, it has to be the Blacks themselves. There are very few practical support systems created by successful blacks such as scholarships for students or support in healthcare / insurance / legal etc. If you just rant or riot or keep on taking knee, the BLM will not influence the Whites positively, instead it will turn the young blacks even more revolutionary. Already the ghetto anger and crime is destroying their life.
BLM should disassociate itself from the "American police brutality" issue and increase its net as an issue of racial injustice in other parts of the world. It will get more teeth then.

2) You are spot on with the assessment about prejudice and bias. I differ though in the conclusion that other races didn't suffer.
Long story was that it happened long back. While other races have moved on and understood that there are no entitlements and everything has to be earned, the majority blacks I feel are somewhat lacking. Perhaps because they were inhumanly treated for so long that the scars remain. However the black community rage is only turning their youth to anger, whereas what they need is to see that other races are doing and work for reconciliation. Whites need to help more but blacks must not spoil the spirit of help with their cries of entitlement.
Reconciliation can happen. it has happened with the Jews. 10 million of them died in holocaust but they are not exactly considered as criminals or rioters anymore. Germany and Israel might even jointly host the Olympics to showcase that they have together overcome this tragedy. Almost similar cases but the way it was much better handled by the Jews.


3) Rule of law is fast and fair in USA. It is very strong. I was comparing with India as a comparison where the seekers die before they get justice and the saying goes "Justice delayed is Justice denied". That way atrocities on black community do get a hearing. In fact the American blacks have it easy in this one aspect, in remote parts of India (& other world), police gets away with custodial deaths with some suspensions and shuffling of posts.

I agree with you about the Legal representation costs. This is where the BLM movement should work. Protest and support outside and inside the courts. Also this poor vs rich legal costs issue is there in every country.

 

[Robert]

But people have already termed the officer as racist before the court case, including you. The maybes are applied on convenience.

So what?

It’s a false equivalence anyway, between a great humanitarian and an alleged murderer.

 

[Technics 1210]

So what?

It’s a false equivalence anyway, between a great humanitarian and an alleged murderer.

So what? Guilty until proven is the society you want to live in?