Brexit: the UK has left the European Union

[Technics 1210]

Part of the negotiation problem seems to be that what the British call "sovereignty" is meaningless to the EU.

Nope. EU understand sovereignty, they just will not bestow it upon the UK because it'll set a precedent for other EU members, Hungary and Poland for example.

Support the UK for once, not the EU.

 

[Robert]

Nope. EU understand sovereignty, they just will not bestow it upon the UK because it'll set a precedent for other EU members, Hungary and Poland for example.

Support the UK for once, not the EU.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2020/11/27/a-peculiar-definition-of-sovereignty-is-the-root-cause-of-a-failed-brexit/

I think they would be glad to be rid of Poland and Hungary.

 

[Technics 1210]

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2020/11/27/a-peculiar-definition-of-sovereignty-is-the-root-cause-of-a-failed-brexit/

I think they would be glad to be rid of Poland and Hungary.

Just like Yuogoslavia?

Just goes to show how EU, and Europe, have been a failure. So much for preventing the rise of the right and war in Europe.

Heil Germany!

 

[Robert]

Just like Yuogoslavia?

Just goes to show how EU, and Europe, have been a failure. So much for preventing the rise of the right and war in Europe.

Heil Germany!

No such nation as Yugoslavia, it broke up in the early nineties. The resultant smaller nations are all EU members and at peace.

Germany seems like a paragon of nations to me. Excellent manufacturing, education and health care.

 

[Technics 1210]

No such nation as Yugoslavia, it broke up in the early nineties. The resultant smaller nations are all EU members and at peace.
.

I know, but you missed the small detail of war during the break up.

My point is simple, Europe is a war mongering contInent, and the EU will never achieve peace but promote the rise of right - as we're already witnessing.

 

[Robert]

I know, but you missed the small detail of war during the break up.

My point is simple, Europe is a war mongering contInent, and the EU will never achieve peace but promote the rise of right - as we're already witnessing.

But Yugoslavia wasn’t in the EEC.

Since Treaty of Rome in1957, EEC/EU states have been at peace with each other.

The identitarian populist right seems to be surging all across the world. People who grew up not realising that they had privilege feel that anything that increases equality is oppression.

 

[Technics 1210]

But Yugoslavia wasn’t in the EEC.

Since Treaty of Rome in1957, EEC/EU states have been at peace with each other.

The identitarian populist right seems to be surging all across the world. People who grew up not realising that they had privilege feel that anything that increases equality is oppression.

Exactly, wasn't in the EEC, so war was the answer. Very European. After butchering the place, the broken states became members. This pattern is all to common with Europe.

As for the rise of RW ideologies, I'm not sure how many time this can be explained, but austerity is the cause. How did the EU/EZ help the youth of the EU? By bestowing the highest level of unemployment, and lowest levels of opportunity.

EU has been an abject failure at the fundamental level.

 

[Robert]

Exactly, wasn't in the EEC, so war was the answer. Very European. After butchering the place, the broken states became members. This pattern is all to common with Europe.

As for the rise of RW ideologies, I'm not sure how many time this can be explained, but austerity is the cause. How did the EU/EZ help the youth of the EU? By bestowing the highest level of unemployment, and lowest levels of opportunity.

EU has been an abject failure at the fundamental level.

Not sure what your point is - an unstable country outside the EEC broke up, into peaceful states which are now EU members. The EU therefore helped stabilise the Balkans.

France and Germany were at nearly constant war for centuries but that stopped with Treaty of Rome. The structures underpinning the EU make war between member states impossible. This is a good thing!

UK was the only EU nation to impose austerity for long. Other Western European nations such as Germany emerged faster from the crash of 2008 through loans to stimulate business. These nations have no significant identitarian populist right.



In the UK, some very rich people

 

[Technics 1210]

Not sure what your point is - an unstable country outside the EEC broke up, into peaceful states which are now EU members. The EU therefore helped stabilise the Balkans.

France and Germany were at nearly constant war for centuries but that stopped with Treaty of Rome. The structures underpinning the EU make war between member states impossible. This is a good thing!

UK was the only EU nation to impose austerity for long. Other Western European nations such as Germany emerged faster from the crash of 2008 through loans to stimulate business. These nations have no significant identitarian populist right.



In the UK, some very rich people

My point is Europe is a warmongering continent and EU will never change this so please stop promoting this myth that Europe/EEC/EZ/EU has delivered peace - quite the opposite.

You are false about Germany. Germany did not emerge faster, it emerged at a slower growth rate than the UK. Also this isn't just about Germany. Go ask Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece etc - they are subservient to EZ controls and are unable to stimulate their economies. What happened to the largest single market? It was meant to be resilient, but thus far has failed to deliver.

Finally, you are naive if you think there will be another war with boots, tanks, and planes. The world has moved on, we're now in the midst of a cyber, currency, and biological war.

EU has created more divisions, more austerity, more RW ideologies, and above all is undemocratic in every sense of the word (still trying to over turn Brexit).

I don't know where you get the idea the EU respects the UK. France vetoed UK membership twice, and once again France has vetoed.

I've never seen you side with the UK when it comes to EU matters, but I now understand why.

 

[Robert]

My point is Europe is a warmongering continent and EU will never change this so please stop promoting this myth that Europe/EEC/EZ/EU has delivered peace - quite the opposite.

It's the truth. No wars between EEC or EU states. The warmongering continent of old is at peace. France and Germany have forgiven each other after centuries.

You are false about Germany. Germany did not emerge faster, it emerged at a slower growth rate than the UK. Also this isn't just about Germany. Go ask Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece etc - they are subservient to EZ controls and are unable to stimulate their economies. What happened to the largest single market? It was meant to be resilient, but thus far has failed to deliver.

Errm, each member state could stimulate their economy. Germany did, UK didn't.

One area where I am critical of the EU is that the strong economies are bailing out the basket cases. I would have much preferred a sort of EU stellar implosion post-2008 forming a dense core of UK, Germany, France, Belgium, Denmark and Sweden with the southern economies going into orbit round it but we chose to leave the star system altogether, sadly.

On the other hand, the EU has given depressed maritime regions such as South Wales and Cornwall an awful lot of money over the last two decades, making infrastructure and educational improvements and setting up businesses, which I am grateful for.

Finally, you are naive if you think there will be another war with boots, tanks, and planes. The world has moved on, we're now in the midst of a cyber, currency, and biological war.

Putin must be naive too then, because he is spending 5% or Russian GDP on defence including new tanks and aircraft - so he clearly thinks he wants them to roll somewhere.

EU has created more divisions, more austerity, more RW ideologies, and above all is undemocratic in every sense of the word (still trying to over turn Brexit).

Err, no, they are negotiating the withdrawal agreement.

EU is more democratic than UK which has an unelected upper House and Lords Spiritual - clerics making laws would you believe?

I don't know where you get the idea the EU respects the UK. France vetoed UK membership twice, and once again France has vetoed.

1. EU is not France.
2. De Gaulle died in 1970.
3. Of course they want to veto our ridiculous fishing waters claim. I would if I were them.

I've never seen you side with the UK when it comes to EU matters, but I now understand why.

It is our incompetent goverment I side against. Verhofstadt, Barnier and von der Leyen are the adults in the room, while we send idiots like Johnson. So it is difficult to by sympathetic when our representatives are useless. A competent Tory like Thatcher would sit on the ERG, bring back a Norway or Switzerland or Canada type deal and this would all be sorted.

 

[Technics 1210]

It's the truth. No wars between EEC or EU states. The warmongering continent of old is at peace. France and Germany have forgiven each other after centuries.



Errm, each member state could stimulate their economy. Germany did, UK didn't.

One area where I am critical of the EU is that the strong economies are bailing out the basket cases. I would have much preferred a sort of EU stellar implosion post-2008 forming a dense core of UK, Germany, France, Belgium, Denmark and Sweden with the southern economies going into orbit round it but we chose to leave the star system altogether, sadly.

On the other hand, the EU has given depressed maritime regions such as South Wales and Cornwall an awful lot of money over the last two decades, making infrastructure and educational improvements and setting up businesses, which I am grateful for.




Putin must be naive too then, because he is spending 5% or Russian GDP on defence including new tanks and aircraft - so he clearly thinks he wants them to roll somewhere.



Err, no, they are negotiating the withdrawal agreement.

EU is more democratic than UK which has an unelected upper House and Lords Spiritual - clerics making laws would you believe?

I don't know where you get the idea the EU respects the UK. France vetoed UK membership twice, and once again France has vetoed.

1. EU is not France.
2. De Gaulle died in 1970.
3. Of course they want to veto our ridiculous fishing waters claim. I would if I were them.



It is our incompetent goverment I side against. Verhofstadt, Barnier and von der Leyen are the adults in the room, while we send idiots like Johnson. So it is difficult to by sympathetic when our representatives are useless. A competent Tory like Thatcher would sit on the ERG, bring back a Norway or Switzerland or Canada type deal and this would all be sorted.

I said Europe, not just an economical and political union. Please stop pigeon holing the truth.

You are wrong though. Each member state cannot stimulate their economies. Italy for example cannot reduce VAT, cannot indulge in QE, and cannot weaken the Euro in their country. Did I mention Greece? They nearly dropped the EU for their own Drachma currency because their pensions and saving were raided during the Euro currency crisis.

UK however did stimulate the economy, on their own terms, through QE, and reduction of VAT and interest rates - because the UK is NOT a member of the EZ. Germany approves QE/VAT/Rates for all EZ members.

As for EU giving money to Cornwall etc, mate, that EU membership in fees, where does it go? It's given back to the UK under the guise of investment and grants etc. Now why couldn't the UK government just hand the cash directly over to Cornwall instead?

As for Putin, he's done the right thing pointing his missiles to Europe. UK, Europe, and USA have been doing the same to other countries. UK should've strengthen ties with Russia, especially since Russia was an ally for both WWs. As it's said, don't hate the player, hate the game.

I finally understand why Remainers side with EU, they never understood sovereignty because Remainers believe it implies division and superiority. Man the stigma of the British Empire is still strong.

Irony is, Brits fought two WWs to avoid German rule, when in the end, EU membership is just the same - ruled by Germany.

 

[Robert]

I said Europe, not just an economical and political union. Please stop pigeon holing the truth.

You are wrong though. Each member state cannot stimulate their economies. Italy for example cannot reduce VAT, cannot indulge in QE, and cannot weaken the Euro in their country. Did I mention Greece? They nearly dropped the EU for their own Drachma currency because their pensions and saving were raided during the Euro currency crisis.

Eurozone nations cannot print money but they can certainly set VAT about the rate of 15% (or drop it to 15% though not below) and can give stimulus loans to industry, as Germany did (and UK should have done).

UK however did stimulate the economy, on their own terms, through QE, and reduction of VAT and interest rates - because the UK is NOT a member of the EZ. Germany approves QE/VAT/Rates for all EZ members.


As for EU giving money to Cornwall etc, mate, that EU membership in fees, where does it go? It's given back to the UK under the guise of investment and grants etc. Now why couldn't the UK government just hand the cash directly over to Cornwall instead?

It goes to the mechanisms of the EuroParl, maintaining the CU, Agricultural Fund, Social Fund, EuroPol, EurAtom, ESA and Erasmus.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-norway/http://

I worked out that for every £1 the Cornish taxpayer sends to the EU, £5 has come back for road improvements, Falmouth Uni, NQY / AeroHub, Eden Project, fast broadband, improvements to ports and shedloads of business startups. Some 30,000 jobs have been created in twenty years, which is about 1/10th the working population. Despite this, Cornwall voted to Leave. The CAP and CLP are unpopular (though the farmers will lose their EU subsidies and the fishermen will go broke if tariffs go on - so there must be a CU deal of sorts).

Why won't Westminster match this funding? I guess other regions shout louder.

As for Putin, he's done the right thing pointing his missiles to Europe. UK, Europe, and USA have been doing the same to other countries. UK should've strengthen ties with Russia, especially since Russia was an ally for both WWs. As it's said, don't hate the player, hate the game.

USSR was a totalitarian dioctatorship that wanted to roll Western Europe so no chance of being friends with them.

Wait a minute, you said tanks and planes are obsolete a minute ago.... things were getting calmer under Yeltsin but since 2008 or so, the Russians have started probing our air and sea defences again. This is not the act of a friend. Plus they want their old lands in the Baltics back and we have to help defend out new Baltic NATO mates from all the shiny new Russian kit.

You can hate the player and the game. Putin is not a good guy. We would never have this discussion if we were in Russia. I would get disappeared for it.

I finally understand why Remainers side with EU, they never understood sovereignty because Remainers believe it implies division and superiority. Man the stigma of the British Empire is still strong.

If UK cuts a deal, that is an expression of sovereignty. If it falls back to WHO rules, that is also an expression of sovereignty, but we have to match EU standards in order to trade with them so how sovereign are we really? Just some little island doing what a bloc with five times its GDP tells it to. Whereas we used to express our sovereignty in the EU by helping set the rules for the bloc and for third countries.

 

[Technics 1210]

Eurozone nations cannot print money but they can certainly set VAT about the rate of 15% (or drop it to 15% though not below) and can give stimulus loans to industry, as Germany did (and UK should have done).



It goes to the mechanisms of the EuroParl, maintaining the CU, Agricultural Fund, Social Fund, EuroPol, EurAtom, ESA and Erasmus.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-norway/http://

I worked out that for every £1 the Cornish taxpayer sends to the EU, £5 has come back for road improvements, Falmouth Uni, NQY / AeroHub, Eden Project, fast broadband, improvements to ports and shedloads of business startups. Some 30,000 jobs have been created in twenty years, which is about 1/10th the working population. Despite this, Cornwall voted to Leave. The CAP and CLP are unpopular (though the farmers will lose their EU subsidies and the fishermen will go broke if tariffs go on - so there must be a CU deal of sorts).

Why won't Westminster match this funding? I guess other regions shout louder.




USSR was a totalitarian dioctatorship that wanted to roll Western Europe so no chance of being friends with them.

Wait a minute, you said tanks and planes are obsolete a minute ago.... things were getting calmer under Yeltsin but since 2008 or so, the Russians have started probing our air and sea defences again. This is not the act of a friend. Plus they want their old lands in the Baltics back and we have to help defend out new Baltic NATO mates from all the shiny new Russian kit.

You can hate the player and the game. Putin is not a good guy. We would never have this discussion if we were in Russia. I would get disappeared for it.



If UK cuts a deal, that is an expression of sovereignty. If it falls back to WHO rules, that is also an expression of sovereignty, but we have to match EU standards in order to trade with them so how sovereign are we really? Just some little island doing what a bloc with five times its GDP tells it to. Whereas we used to express our sovereignty in the EU by helping set the rules for the bloc and for third countries.

Yes I said tanks and planes are now obsolete in war. Russia walked in the UK and used chemical weapons, and is indulging in cyber warfare, and if we belive the left, also influenced Brexit and Trump. Russia is also cornering the market for natural gas and Palladium. Welcome to the new style of warfare.

You say Russia is not a friend if it probes the sea and air? Remind me what the West continues to do? USA almost went to war over the cuban missile crises because it was on their doorstep, but Russia should ignore the persistent goading by NATO and the West?

The lesson here is an enemy of the USA, isn't your enemy. You've just fallen for the government lies and accepted them enemies.

As for Westminster. When the government want to invest in infrastructure to increase the country's economic and employment capacity, it's the left/green who shout 'climate change'. Take Heathrow. While the world is building new airports for a new futures, we're still debating on a 3rd runway for the past 25 years.

Look, I see Brexit as a great opportunity to make a difference. UK flourished in the 80s, there was no EU, no reason it cannot be the same again. However please stop believing the EU and USA have our best interests at heart. We got played in WW1, got played in WW2, and make no mistake, we're getting played now.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Lots of noise on Twitter about a Brexit deal being agreed.

 

[Firebat]

Brexit: UK and EU 'haggling', as hopes for trade deal rise

The EU and UK are continuing talks on post-Brexit trade, amid mounting speculation that they are close to agreeing a deal.

BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said it was looking "very likely" the two sides were "heading towards" an agreement.

But this was "not signed and sealed", with "haggling" going on, she added.

Disputes over fishing rights and business competition rules remain the key hurdles to reaching a deal.

An EU official close to the talks said: "It is crunch time. But talk of a deal announcement is premature."

And a Downing Street source said it was "possible but far from certain" that an agreement could be secured later on Wednesday.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55422729

 

[sweep_shot]

Brexit: UK-EU trade talks continue ahead of expected deal

Talks between the UK and the EU on a post-Brexit trade agreement are continuing into the night, but a deal is expected to be unveiled on Thursday.

Negotiators in Brussels are said to be trying to finalise details on fishing quotas, which have proved an obstacle to an agreement during months of talks.

PM Boris Johnson has briefed his cabinet on the progress reached.

BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said Downing Street now seemed "very confident" of a deal.

Amid speculation that both sides were close to unveiling a deal on Wednesday evening, European Commission spokesman Eric Mamer tweeted just after midnight GMT to confirm the talks would be continuing.

"Work will continue throughout the night. Grabbing some sleep is recommended to all Brexit-watchers at this point," he said.

"It will hopefully be an early start tomorrow morning..."

The deal document is thought to be around 2,000 pages long, with both sides having until 31 December - when the UK leaves EU trading rules - to get it approved by parliamentarians.

A deal would end the prospect of the two sides imposing widespread import taxes - tariffs - on each other's goods from 1 January, which could have affected prices.

EU sources said Mr Johnson and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen had been in contact in recent days an attempt to break the deadlock before an expected pause in negotiations for Christmas.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55433410.

 

[James]

Deal is done. Being announced today.

 

[Giannis]

I think Brexit is good, France and Germany need the UK not the other way around.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Seeing lots of meltdowns like this today.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The xenophobes and racists get their Brexit deal. Stand by for more xenophobia and racism... and more blame avoidance over Covid-19... ⁦<a href="https://twitter.com/NewStatesman?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NewStatesman</a>⁩ <a href="https://t.co/FUXHTEFJsH">https://t.co/FUXHTEFJsH</a></p>— Paul Mason (@paulmasonnews) <a href="https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1342010274572853249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Technics 1210]

The language in these meltdown tweets from the radical left remoaners says it all. They are still hell bent in subverting democracy.

If the remoaners don't like Brexit and love the EU, then leave the UK because you lot are creating more division and harm to society than anyone or anything else.

 

[Robert]

Deal is done. Being announced today.

What a relief. Trucks will start rolling again soon, so no food shortages at least.

Dominic Grieve says the deal is very thin and importers/exporters will have more red tape to deal with. But no tariffs. Fishers will stay in business. How this affects the Japanese car giant plants has yet to be seen. So the Brexit damage is less severe than No Deal.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-55433447

 

[Robert]

Seeing lots of meltdowns like this today.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The xenophobes and racists get their Brexit deal. Stand by for more xenophobia and racism... and more blame avoidance over Covid-19... ⁦<a href="https://twitter.com/NewStatesman?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NewStatesman</a>⁩ <a href="https://t.co/FUXHTEFJsH">https://t.co/FUXHTEFJsH</a></p>— Paul Mason (@paulmasonnews) <a href="https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1342010274572853249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Xenophobes and racists seem to want No Deal, so this deal will make them cross with Johnson.

 

[Firebat]

Brexit trade deal in sight, but haggle over fish grinds on

LONDON/BRUSSELS (Reuters) -Britain and the European Union were on the cusp of striking a narrow trade deal on Thursday, swerving away from a chaotic finale to a Brexit split that has shaken the 70-year project to forge European unity from the ruins of World War Two.

While a last-minute deal would avoid the most acrimonious ending to the divorce on Jan. 1, the United Kingdom is set for a much more distant relationship with its biggest trade partner than almost anyone expected at the time of the 2016 referendum.

Sources in London and Brussels said a deal was close - but possibly still some hours away - after British Prime Minister Boris Johnson held a late-night conference call with senior ministers, and negotiators in Brussels pored over reams of legal texts.

Johnson was expected to hold a news conference, just seven days before the UK turns its back on the EU’s single market and customs union at 2300 GMT on Dec. 31.

“Certainly the momentum and the expectation is that we will get a Christmas Eve Brexit deal and I can tell you that will be an enormous relief,” Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney told RTE radio.

However, haggling over just how much fish such as sole, sand eels and herring EU boats should be able to catch in British waters was delaying the announcement of one of the most important trade deals in recent European history.

“There is some sort of last-minute hitch” related to “small text” of the fisheries agreement, Coveney said.

A UK source said the talks in Brussels could still have “some hours to run”, and an EU official agreed that wrangling over fishing rights could take several hours to work through.

News that a deal was imminent, first reported by Reuters on Wednesday, triggered a 1.5% surge in the pound against the dollar. Bond yields rose across the world.

The UK formally left the EU on Jan. 31 but has since been in a transition period under which rules on trade, travel and business remained unchanged until the end of this year.

If the sides have struck a zero-tariff and zero-quota deal, it would help to smooth trade in goods that makes up half their $900 billion in annual commerce. It would also support the peace in Northern Ireland - a priority for U.S. President-elect Joe Biden, who had warned Johnson that he must uphold the 1998 Good Friday peace agreement.

Even with an accord, some disruption is certain from Jan. 1 when Britain ends its often fraught 48-year relationship with a Franco-German-led project that sought to bind the ruined nations of post-World War Two Europe together into a global power.

After months of talks that were at times undermined by both COVID-19 and rhetoric from London and Paris, leaders across the EU’s 27 member states have cast an agreement as a way to avoid the nightmare of a “no-deal” exit.

But Europe’s second-largest economy will still be quitting both the EU’s single market of 450 million consumers, which late British prime minister Margaret Thatcher helped to create, and its customs union.

Read more: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-but-haggle-over-fish-grinds-on-idUSKBN28Y02R

 

[Firebat]

Brexiteer Farage says UK will be too closely aligned to EU

LONDON (Reuters) - Brexit campaigner Nigel Farage said on Thursday that he suspected the United Kingdom would remain far too closely aligned to the European Union’s rules after Prime Minister Boris Johnson clinches a trade deal.

“Winning a war is one thing, winning peace is another: I suspect we are going to find ourselves far too closely aligned to EU rules in the years to come,” Farage told Talk Radio.

He said he hoped “this is the beginning of the end of the European Union,” according to a Talk Radio transcript.

“Hey, is [the deal] better than where we were five years ago? Yes, it is. Is it good enough to allow us to become Singapore, the really dynamic booming economy? No,” Farage said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ll-be-too-closely-aligned-to-eu-idUSKBN28Y0Y3

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">UK and EU agree post-Brexit trade deal after months of deadlock, meaning big changes from 1 January 2021<a href="https://t.co/tEVuZhcVJY">https://t.co/tEVuZhcVJY</a></p>— BBC Breaking News (@BBCBreaking) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1342120938926723074?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IMMY69]

Listening to the president of the EU makes me think what idiots we have here.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Listening to the president of the EU makes me think what idiots we have here.

EU politicians sound pretty level headed most of the time (that too when speaking in their 2nd or 3rd language) - our lot sound like lunatics even when talking in their native tongue.

That said, the EU are just as responsible for Brexit as anyone else. They should have given David Cameron some proper concessions back in 2015/2016 and then this whole thing would never have happened.

Oh well no point looking back now, hope it all works out well. Have a feeling that it won’t be as disastrous as the pro EU lot tell us but it won’t be as wonderful as the other side say either - life will probably just go on more or less like it is.

 

[IMMY69]

EU politicians sound pretty level headed most of the time (that too when speaking in their 2nd or 3rd language) - our lot sound like lunatics even when talking in their native tongue.

That said, the EU are just as responsible for Brexit as anyone else. They should have given David Cameron some proper concessions back in 2015/2016 and then this whole thing would never have happened.

Oh well no point looking back now, hope it all works out well. Have a feeling that it won’t be as disastrous as the pro EU lot tell us but it won’t be as wonderful as the other side say either - life will probably just go on more or less like it is.

You're absolutely right about the concessions but let's all be honest here, no one ever thought Leavers would win that referendum, not even Farage...

Our democratic loving friends here on PP call remainers remoaners and throw insults but Farage himself said he would continue to fight if Leavers lost.

 

[Technics 1210]

Let the revolution begin!

Bad luck Remoaners. Your accusations of xenophobia, racism, facism, fraud, lies, hypocrisy, insecurity - AND my personal favourite - "Planes falling out the sky" (HA HA) - have amounted to nothing. You've ended up embrassing yourself and anoiting yourself as traitors!

The enemies of democracy have no right to criticise totalitarian/dictatorship governments, and can never be trusted again! These traitors spent 4.5 years trying to overturn a democratic result and created mass social and political division; now you pay the price for your treachery!

These snake oil salesmen are free to leave the UK for the EU, just remember if you return, you will be subjected to a new points based immigration system starting on the 1st Jan 2021 @ 00:00:01

2021 is looking great already!

 

[ElRaja]

anyone got a summary on the deal?

 

[MenInG]

Downing Street says the UK & EU have agreed a post-Brexit trade deal which says "protects the integrity of our internal market" while delivering "everything that the British public was promised" during the referendum

 

[IMMY69]

Downing Street says the UK & EU have agreed a post-Brexit trade deal which says "protects the integrity of our internal market" while delivering "everything that the British public was promised" during the referendum

One word: Immigration

 

[MenInG]

The EU and UK have reached a post-Brexit trade deal, ending months of disagreements over fishing rights and future business rules.

At a Downing Street press conference, Boris Johnson said: "We have taken back control of our laws and our destiny."

The prime minister added that although arguments had been "fierce" it was a "good deal for the whole of Europe", driving jobs and prosperity.

EU chief Ursula von der Leyen said it was a "fair and balanced" deal.

In a press conference in Brussels, the European Commission president said: "This was a long and winding road but we have got a good deal to show for it.

"It is fair, it is a balanced deal, and it is the right and responsible thing to do for both sides."

She added that now was "time to turn the page and look to the future" and that the UK "remains a trusted partner".

There will be a five-and-a-half year transition period for the fishing industry, she indicated.

And co-operation will continue on issues including climate change, energy, security and transport.

In a statement, Downing Street said: "We have taken back control of our money, borders, laws, trade and our fishing waters."

Echoing Mr Johnson's general election slogan, it added "we have got Brexit done".

Mr Johnson tweeted a picture of himself smiling with both thumbs lifted in the air.

At his press conference, he said: "We have completed the biggest deal yet worth £668bn a year.

"A comprehensive Canada-style deal between the UK and the EU. A deal that will protect jobs across this country, that will enable UK goods to be sold without tariffs, without quotas in the EU market.

"A deal which will allow our companies to do even more business with our European friends."

Relief to businesses
He said he hoped the UK Parliament would be recalled on 30 December to vote on deal - it will also need to be ratified by the European Parliament.

The opposition Labour Party - which is widely expected to back the deal - said it would be setting out its formal response "in due course".

The full text of the free trade agreement is expected to be published in the coming days.

Wales First Minister Mark Drakeford said a deal was better than no deal but criticised the timing just a week before the UK exits the EU single market and customs union.

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said: "Brexit is happening against Scotland's will - and there is no deal that will ever make up for what Brexit takes away from us.

"It's time to chart our own future as an independent, European nation."

The deal will come as a major relief to many British businesses, already reeling from the impact of coronavirus, who feared disruption at the borders when the UK leaves EU trading rules next Thursday.

The government's economic watchdog, the Office for Budget Responsibility, had warned that leaving without a deal would have shrunk the national income by 2% next year and led to major job losses.

Down to the wire
There were also concerns it would lead to higher prices in the shops for many imported goods.

Negotiations in Brussels went down to the wire over what EU fishing boats are allowed to catch in UK waters. Fishing makes up just 0.12% of the UK's economy.

There are still big question marks about what the deal will mean for the rest of British business.

Firms that trade with the 27 member states have carried on as normal for the past year during the so-called transition period that kicked in when Britain left the EU.

They will still face extra paperwork when the country leaves the EU single market and customs union next week.

But the threat of tariffs - import taxes - between the UK and its biggest trading partner will be removed.

 

[Technics 1210]

No need for snow this Christmas, plenty of snowflakes around! )

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Brexit: Seven things changing in January and others that remain unresolved

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54195827

 

[IMMY69]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54195827

So the biggest and possibly so far the only thing that's really been sorted out is Immigration...

 

[MenInG]

Labour leader confirms party will vote for deal

Sir Keir Starmer says no-deal is "simply not an option" as it would have dire consequences.

The Labour leader adds that his party is firmly against such a scenario.

He says he does not agree with those who have been calling for the party to abstain in a Brexit deal vote.

"It is just not credible" for the party to be on the sidelines," Sir Keir adds.

He confirms Labour will vote for the deal when it is put before Parliament on 30 December.

 

[Manunited18]

I'm glad the immigration noose has tightened, to many EU migrants were a massive load on the public purse of the United kingdom.

 

[IMMY69]

I'm glad the immigration noose has tightened, to many EU migrants were a massive load on the public purse of the United kingdom.

See now what you just said is a pile of rubbish.

 

[Technics 1210]

I'm glad the immigration noose has tightened, to many EU migrants were a massive load on the public purse of the United kingdom.

Indeed. These EU freeloaders were willing to work for a paltry price because it still meant they would earn more back home.

The entire Eastern block of the EU are ex-communist, but no, we got muppets in the UK who believe these people are safe cos they're white.

 

[Pakpak]

You're absolutely right about the concessions but let's all be honest here, no one ever thought Leavers would win that referendum, not even Farage...

Our democratic loving friends here on PP call remainers remoaners and throw insults but Farage himself said he would continue to fight if Leavers lost.

To be fair I knew Leavers would win. Let's be honest, we know what the average pro UKIP voter thinks. You're older than me so probably know more about communal relations in the UK but reading how the tabloid rags bash Muslims and immigrants each day for years I wasn't surprised when the vote came to leave. A lot, not all but a lot, of votes to leave were due to keeping 'Muslims out', when infact due to the out vote UK needs FAR more immigrants to fill the gap left by EU migrants. I know that to be true for NHS atleast!

I am glad at the no tariffs. That saves a lot of trouble for the cost of goods and medicines esp during Covid times.

 

[Manunited18]

See now what you just said is a pile of rubbish.

For you my friend it may be rubbish, for me a big step in the right direction.

 

[IMMY69]

For you my friend it may be rubbish, for me a big step in the right direction.

You said they are a massive load on the public purse..
Please elaborate. How are they a burden?

 

[Technics 1210]

Ask youself. If EU believed in free movement, why not open free movement with Turkey?! Turkey is a member of Nato, EU customs union, and the G20.

Here's the answer, the EU is the 5th Reich - Nazis in disguise. They only care about the pure white race.

 

[IMMY69]

To be fair I knew Leavers would win. Let's be honest, we know what the average pro UKIP voter thinks. You're older than me so probably know more about communal relations in the UK but reading how the tabloid rags bash Muslims and immigrants each day for years I wasn't surprised when the vote came to leave. A lot, not all but a lot, of votes to leave were due to keeping 'Muslims out', when infact due to the out vote UK needs FAR more immigrants to fill the gap left by EU migrants. I know that to be true for NHS atleast!

I am glad at the no tariffs. That saves a lot of trouble for the cost of goods and medicines esp during Covid times.

I never expected Leave to win.
I know others who didn't either and didn't even turn out to vote which is the silliest thing ever.

We know what drove the leave vote...
the fear was confounded by the play on Muslim Immigrants, what Germany took in will eventually come here.

Anyway, this deal just highlights what was important and that was to get Immigration done!
The rest, including tariff free trade etc, is all subject to further discussion on individual goods and on case by case basis with independent adjudication in case of dispute...

What helps in terms of meds etc is that an extension has been agreed to keep the current status quote up to June 2021...

Please forgive me if I'm wrong on any of this. Happy to stand corrected.

 

[Manunited18]

Ask youself. If EU believed in free movement, why not open free movement with Turkey?! Turkey is a member of Nato, EU customs union, and the G20.

Here's the answer, the EU is the 5th Reich - Nazis in disguise. They only care about the pure white race.

But but the EU sympathizers don't see this

 

[Pakpak]

I never expected Leave to win.
I know others who didn't either and didn't even turn out to vote which is the silliest thing ever.

We know what drove the leave vote...
the fear was confounded by the play on Muslim Immigrants, what Germany took in will eventually come here.

Anyway, this deal just highlights what was important and that was to get Immigration done!
The rest, including tariff free trade etc, is all subject to further discussion on individual goods and on case by case basis with independent adjudication in case of dispute...

What helps in terms of meds etc is that an extension has been agreed to keep the current status quote up to June 2021...

Please forgive me if I'm wrong on any of this. Happy to stand corrected.

Plans were till the transition period everything goes smoothly as it has been but to be honest bigger worry was border delays and people getting their meds on time, decisions on whether to stockpile stuff or not and so on. As for racists, I know there are far more IMGs (International medical grads) who have started arriving since Brexit. Almost all of them are either Pakistani or Indian, I think you have someone you know in the NHS, they will say the same. Maybe I am wrong but from what I know before a lot of them couldn't come as there was a restriction that they can't get Tier 2 visas unless their job pays them £30,000 in the NHS. So which meant a lot of junior doctor jobs at Fy1 for instance went unfilled. That restriction I have heard is either being removed or has been removed so there will be doctors in their thousands from Pakistan and India in the coming years. I am assuming this will be also beyond the healthcare industry, when the European workers leave UK will still need others to fill the gap. So far from removing Muslims or ethnic minorities, there will be more of them now. I am wondering which bogeyman any racist will blame now that the UK is out of the EU.

 

[KingKhanWC]

There are good points of leaving and bad points too. Good points include a divide with broken nations such as France , Greece and a few right wing eastern european nations. Bad points include UK will be worser off financially.

Overall it wont make much difference to the avg Brit. Boris and co havent done anything special at all.

 

[IMMY69]

Plans were till the transition period everything goes smoothly as it has been but to be honest bigger worry was border delays and people getting their meds on time, decisions on whether to stockpile stuff or not and so on. As for racists, I know there are far more IMGs (International medical grads) who have started arriving since Brexit. Almost all of them are either Pakistani or Indian, I think you have someone you know in the NHS, they will say the same. Maybe I am wrong but from what I know before a lot of them couldn't come as there was a restriction that they can't get Tier 2 visas unless their job pays them £30,000 in the NHS. So which meant a lot of junior doctor jobs at Fy1 for instance went unfilled. That restriction I have heard is either being removed or has been removed so there will be doctors in their thousands from Pakistan and India in the coming years. I am assuming this will be also beyond the healthcare industry, when the European workers leave UK will still need others to fill the gap. So far from removing Muslims or ethnic minorities, there will be more of them now. I am wondering which bogeyman any racist will blame now that the UK is out of the EU.

You make a very good point regarding the doctors...
those working in care homes will be really missed though.

I do have friends who are in the NHS, my own daughter is a third year medic.

 

[Pakpak]

There are good points of leaving and bad points too. Good points include a divide with broken nations such as France , Greece and a few right wing eastern european nations. Bad points include UK will be worser off financially.

Overall it wont make much difference to the avg Brit. Boris and co havent done anything special at all.

I agree with the overall point. But a lot of towns which had tens of thousands of jobs, at car factories or areas such as North East, which received a lot of EU funding and jobs due to EU business are all out of business. All these places voted leave too. But the bold bit I agree with totally.

 

[Pakpak]

You make a very good point regarding the doctors...
those working in care homes will be really missed though.

I do have friends who are in the NHS, my own daughter is a third year medic.

That's great to hear, tell her to enjoy the University years. The first two years of being a junior doctor are back breaking.

 

[Pakpak]

 

[observer1]

Can someone give me a basic breakdown about what benefits the average Joe in the UK gets?

Nobody seem to be able to give a simple answer

 

[sweep_shot]

Brexit: EU diplomats to get trade deal briefing

EU ambassadors are to receive a Christmas Day briefing on the post-Brexit trade deal reached with the UK.

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier will update the diplomats on the agreement, reached after months of fraught talks on fishing rights and business rules.

The UK is set to exit EU trading rules on 31 December - a year after officially leaving the 27-nation bloc.

MPs are still waiting to see the full text of the free trade deal ahead of a vote in Parliament on 30 December.

Labour said it was a "thin agreement" but they would back it as the only alternative to a no deal, meaning it should win approval.

The European Parliament also needs to ratify the deal but is is unlikely to do so until the new year, meaning its application will formally be provisional until then.

The UK's chief trade negotiator Lord Frost, said the deal document, which is made up of about 1,500 pages - including approximately 1,000 pages of annexes and footnotes - would be published soon.

In a Christmas video message, posted on Twitter on Thursday evening, Prime Minister Boris Johnson held a draft copy of the document aloft.

He said: "Tonight, on Christmas Eve, I have a small present for anyone who may be looking for something to read in that sleepy post-Christmas lunch moment, and here it is, tidings, glad tidings of great joy because this is a deal.

"A deal to give certainty to business, travellers, and all investors in our country from January 1. A deal with our friends and partners in the EU."

Earlier, at a Downing Street press conference soon after the deal was announced, Mr Johnson said: "We have taken back control of our laws and our destiny," but stressed the UK "will remain culturally, emotionally, historically, strategically and geologically attached to Europe".

In a press conference in Brussels, European Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen said the deal was "fair" and "balanced" and it was now "time to turn the page and look to the future". The UK "remains a trusted partner," she added.

The deal comes four-and-a-half years after the UK voted to leave the EU and will define the future relationship for decades.

Goods will continue to be traded free of tariffs and quotas, and there will be independent arbitration to resolve future disputes.

It will mean big changes for business, with the UK and EU forming two separate markets, and the end of free movement.

But it will have come as a major relief to many British businesses, already reeling from the impact of coronavirus, who feared disruption at the borders and the imposition of tariffs, or taxes on imports.

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer - who campaigned against Brexit - said his party would vote for the deal in the Commons, ensuring it will pass.

He said the deal "does not provide adequate protections" for jobs, manufacturing, financial services or workplace rights and "is not the deal the government promised".

But with no time left to renegotiate, the only choice was between "this deal or no deal," he added.

At his press conference, Boris Johnson said the £668bn a year agreement would "protect jobs across this country".

He said the UK had not got all it wanted on financial services, a vital part of the UK economy, but he insisted the deal was "nonetheless going to enable our dynamic City of London to get on and prosper as never before".

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55443780.

 

[Robert]

Can someone give me a basic breakdown about what benefits the average Joe in the UK gets?

Nobody seem to be able to give a simple answer

There are no benefits.

Some rich people will benefit, the disaster capitalists who enrich themselves in times of instability, but not the average Joes and Joannas.

 

[Robert]

Ask youself. If EU believed in free movement, why not open free movement with Turkey?! Turkey is a member of Nato, EU customs union, and the G20.

Because they are not members of the EEA or EU. There are not a liberal enough society to be admitted. When they get a more liberal government, they will be allowed EEA or EU membership and gain free movement.

 

[Firebat]

Brexit: EU diplomats briefed on Brexit trade deal

EU ambassadors have received a Christmas Day briefing on the post-Brexit trade deal reached with the UK.

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier updated them on the agreement, reached after months of fraught talks on fishing rights and business rules.

MPs will vote on the deal in Parliament on 30 December, with the UK set to exit existing trading rules on 31 December.

The 1,246-page document, which includes about 800 pages of annexes and footnotes, has been seen by the BBC.

A 34-page summary of the deal has been published on the UK government's website, but not the complete text.

Labour said it was a "thin agreement" but they would back it as the only alternative to no deal, meaning it should win approval.

The European Parliament needs to ratify the deal but it is unlikely to do so until the new year, meaning its application will formally be provisional until then.

Sebastian Fischer, a spokesman for the German presidency of the Council of the EU, joked ahead of the EU diplomats' meeting that he was looking forward to it "because nothing is more fun than to celebrate Christmas among socially distanced colleagues".

Meanwhile, French Europe minister Clement Beaune said it was a "good agreement", adding that the EU had not accepted a deal "at all costs".

In a Christmas video message, posted on Twitter on Thursday evening, Prime Minister Boris Johnson brandished a draft copy of the document.

He said: "Tonight, on Christmas Eve, I have a small present for anyone who may be looking for something to read in that sleepy post-Christmas lunch moment, and here it is, tidings, glad tidings of great joy because this is a deal.

"A deal to give certainty to business, travellers, and all investors in our country from January 1. A deal with our friends and partners in the EU."

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen described the agreement as "fair" and "balanced", saying it was now "time to turn the page and look to the future". The UK "remains a trusted partner," she added.

Struck four and a half years after the UK voted to leave the EU, the deal will define the future relationship for decades.

Goods will continue to be traded free of tariffs and quotas and there will be independent arbitration to resolve future disputes.

It will mean big changes for business, with the UK and EU forming two separate markets, and the end of free movement.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55443780

 

[Technics 1210]

Because they are not members of the EEA or EU. There are not a liberal enough society to be admitted. When they get a more liberal government, they will be allowed EEA or EU membership and gain free movement.

I know Turkey is not, you're stating the obvious, but happy to have them in Nato and EU customs zone.

Anyway, Turkey not liberal enough but Eastern communist block is fine.

As I said EU is a racist endeavour; Turkey is not admitted because of its Islamic culture.

Thank God we're out.

 

[Robert]

I know Turkey is not, you're stating the obvious, but happy to have them in Nato and EU customs zone.

Anyway, Turkey not liberal enough but Eastern communist block is fine.

As I said EU is a racist endeavour; Turkey is not admitted because of its Islamic culture.

Thank God we're out.

There is no Communist bloc. Czech Republic, Slovakia and Slovenia are liberal democracies.

Islam isn't a race. The EU's problem is with Erdoyan's regressive policies. When they retrun to a rtegard for humans rights, and meet the Copenhagen Criteria for entry, they will be in.

Membership requires that candidate country has achieved stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights, respect for and protection of minorities, the existence of a functioning market economy as well as the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union. Membership presupposes the candidate's ability to take on the obligations of membership including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.

 

[Technics 1210]

There is no Communist bloc. Czech Republic, Slovakia and Slovenia are liberal democracies.

Islam isn't a race. The EU's problem is with Erdoyan's regressive policies. When they retrun to a rtegard for humans rights, and meet the Copenhagen Criteria for entry, they will be in.

Membership requires that candidate country has achieved stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights, respect for and protection of minorities, the existence of a functioning market economy as well as the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union. Membership presupposes the candidate's ability to take on the obligations of membership including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.

Only a few EU members meet all these requirements.

Hungary does not respect the rights of minorities with it's recent court ruling. Poland doesn't respect religious rights. Switzerland didn't agree to free movement nor the monetary union. The entire Eastern block didn't have an economy let alone a functioning one. UK didn't agree to a monetary Union. Greece failed its economic scrutiny before joining the EU. The list is endless.

It's pick and choose. Turkey not liberal enough is just an excuse because when it comes to war the EU can count on Turkey's support under NATO while a passage for EU goods to ME/ASIA.

Anyway, like Trump, both Brexit and EU are history. Time to look at the bright future beyond a failed and facist experiment known as the EU.

 

[Pakpak]

There is no Communist bloc. Czech Republic, Slovakia and Slovenia are liberal democracies.

Islam isn't a race. The EU's problem is with Erdoyan's regressive policies. When they retrun to a rtegard for humans rights, and meet the Copenhagen Criteria for entry, they will be in.

Membership requires that candidate country has achieved stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights, respect for and protection of minorities, the existence of a functioning market economy as well as the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union. Membership presupposes the candidate's ability to take on the obligations of membership including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.

I think Technics posts are all an round joke but I disagree here. Even tho it's an utterly stupid move being out of the EU, the reason Turkey isnt allowed is due to the fact it's Muslim. Nations with dictators all in but name like Hungary who openly hate homosexuals for instance same as Poland with their recent questionable leadership are allowed but Turkey isnt. I have lived and travelled in Eastern Europe for years so trust me when I tell you that those nations have corrupt leaders who have done nothing for the common man, there is massive hatred and racism towards Roma (I have seen Roma get battered for something as small as accidentally bumping into a car) with my own eyes. You know I'm an atheist and I have bashed Pakistan for being in the stone age with minorities but I have not seen minorities in Pakistan being abused in one lifetime than I saw Roma being abused in a month. They're not allowed education and if they are it's segregated. There colonies aren't allowed water proper infrastructure. Nothing. They live on the edges of cities. I remember one taxi driver sadly telling me he wants a leader who makes the Roma vanish. This is one example. I can make a book. Czechs are far ahead in economy but even their police treated Roma horridly. Just do a simple YouTube search. The average Eastern European absolutely hates their leaders too. Examples are the months long protests in Sofia. The only reason those nations were in the EU was to annoy and irritate Russia. I have also travelled to Turkey and it is without a doubt ten times ahead in terms of economy, governance, infrastructure than most Eastern European nations. 100 percent.

I respect you as a poster so don't take this as post as any insult. Brexit was a big mistake but EU is not benign at all.

 

[Robert]

I think Technics posts are all an round joke but I disagree here. Even tho it's an utterly stupid move being out of the EU, the reason Turkey isnt allowed is due to the fact it's Muslim. Nations with dictators all in but name like Hungary who openly hate homosexuals for instance same as Poland with their recent questionable leadership are allowed but Turkey isnt. I have lived and travelled in Eastern Europe for years so trust me when I tell you that those nations have corrupt leaders who have done nothing for the common man, there is massive hatred and racism towards Roma (I have seen Roma get battered for something as small as accidentally bumping into a car) with my own eyes. You know I'm an atheist and I have bashed Pakistan for being in the stone age with minorities but I have not seen minorities in Pakistan being abused in one lifetime than I saw Roma being abused in a month. They're not allowed education and if they are it's segregated. There colonies aren't allowed water proper infrastructure. Nothing. They live on the edges of cities. I remember one taxi driver sadly telling me he wants a leader who makes the Roma vanish. This is one example. I can make a book. Czechs are far ahead in economy but even their police treated Roma horridly. Just do a simple YouTube search. The average Eastern European absolutely hates their leaders too. Examples are the months long protests in Sofia. The only reason those nations were in the EU was to annoy and irritate Russia. I have also travelled to Turkey and it is without a doubt ten times ahead in terms of economy, governance, infrastructure than most Eastern European nations. 100 percent.

I respect you as a poster so don't take this as post as any insult. Brexit was a big mistake but EU is not benign at all.

Thank you for this useful and informative post.

I think that the EU would like to throw Poland and Hungary out because of their recent moves to regressive government.

If Eastern European nations want to join NATO and the EU it is to get protection from an expansionist Russia, and to develop their economies within the postwar liberal order framework.

Roma are treated badly everywhere including UK, sad to say. They don’t have enough facilities such as safe camp sites.

When I was in Turkey I saw a developing economy. Standard of living was lower than Western Europe but not by much. It was really not much different to Spain or the south of France. The Muslim thing is a red herring - the EU’s problem is the regressive policies of Erdogan, plus some issues with financial control mechanisms.

 

[Firebat]

Brexit: UK and EU can have 'special relationship', says Michael Gove

The UK and EU will be able to enjoy a "special relationship" as a result of the post-Brexit trade deal, Cabinet Secretary Michael Gove has said.

Writing in the Times, Mr Gove said he hoped the agreement will also see politics move away from the bitterness surrounding the 2016 referendum.

He wrote: "We can now embark on a new, more hopeful, chapter in our history."

It comes as EU ambassadors received a Christmas Day briefing on the trade deal from EU negotiator Michel Barnier.

Mr Barnier updated them on the agreement, which was reached on Christmas Eve after months of fraught talks on issues such as fishing rights and business rules.

MPs will vote on the deal in Parliament on 30 December, with the UK set to exit existing trading rules on 31 December.

A 1,246-page document, which has been published on the UK government's website, sets out the post-Brexit trade deal with the EU and includes about 800 pages of annexes and footnotes.

Writing in the Times newspaper, Mr Gove, who was a leading campaigner for the Brexit vote in the 2016 referendum, said he "won't deny it's been difficult" for many people since then.

"Friendships have been strained, families were divided and our politics has been rancorous and, at times, ugly. Through the past four years, as a politician at the centre of this debate, I've made more than my share of mistakes or misjudgements, seen old friendships crumble and those closest to me have to endure pressures they never anticipated."

He said he had felt "conscious of a responsibility" to deliver Brexit, adding: "I asked people to vote Leave so they could have their voices heard."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55451102

 

[Firebat]

Britain and EU publish text of narrow Brexit trade deal

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain on Saturday published the text of its narrow trade agreement with the European Union just five days before it exits one of the world’s biggest trading blocs in its most significant global shift since the loss of empire.

The text includes a 1,246-page trade document, as well as agreements on nuclear energy, exchanging classified information, civil nuclear energy and a series of joint declarations.

The “Draft EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement” means that from 2300 GMT on Dec. 31, when Britain finally leaves the EU’s single market and customs union, there will be no tariffs or quotas on the movement of goods originating in either place between the UK and the EU.

The treaty explicitly recognises that trade and investment require conditions for “a level playing field for open and fair competition.”

On financial services, which drive the British economy, the two sides simply commit “to establish a favourable climate for the development of trade and investment between them”.

The text includes many detailed annexes including on rules of origin, fish, the wine trade, medicines, chemicals and security data cooperation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/bri...ext-of-narrow-brexit-trade-deal-idUSKBN29007I

 

[Pakpak]

Thank you for this useful and informative post.

I think that the EU would like to throw Poland and Hungary out because of their recent moves to regressive government.

If Eastern European nations want to join NATO and the EU it is to get protection from an expansionist Russia, and to develop their economies within the postwar liberal order framework.

Roma are treated badly everywhere including UK, sad to say. They don’t have enough facilities such as safe camp sites.

When I was in Turkey I saw a developing economy. Standard of living was lower than Western Europe but not by much. It was really not much different to Spain or the south of France. The Muslim thing is a red herring - the EU’s problem is the regressive policies of Erdogan, plus some issues with financial control mechanisms.

The thing is Roma in UK are not the same as Roma in eastern Europe. The Roma in Europe are mostly Muslim, look Indian and Pakistani and know nothing of travelling. Many times I was treated like Roma till my British accent came out and the sudden respect and attitude change was hilarious and disturbing at the same time. This was not a one time thing but common everyday interaction. Any bad job such as sweeping streets doing sewage homeless people were all Roma. You'd see them in cities on battered bikes staying away from the average Joe less they were abused and beaten. I'm absolutely baffled how EU never raised this despite acknowledging this many times. Many visits the first things the locals would say to me is beware of the Roma. Roma in Europe are not travellers, their housing, to call it housing is rich, shacks or poorly built structures were deliberately kept out of the city with no water no proper electricity and no education or segregated education. The problem was so bad I know universities in some countries forced by the EU to make university seats reserved for Roma students. As that's the only way they'd get in. Ironically I was treated with utter respect and love by any Roma I came across. If turkey did this they would absolutely be hammered 24/7.

 

[Robert]

The thing is Roma in UK are not the same as Roma in eastern Europe. The Roma in Europe are mostly Muslim, look Indian and Pakistani and know nothing of travelling. Many times I was treated like Roma till my British accent came out and the sudden respect and attitude change was hilarious and disturbing at the same time. This was not a one time thing but common everyday interaction. Any bad job such as sweeping streets doing sewage homeless people were all Roma. You'd see them in cities on battered bikes staying away from the average Joe less they were abused and beaten. I'm absolutely baffled how EU never raised this despite acknowledging this many times. Many visits the first things the locals would say to me is beware of the Roma. Roma in Europe are not travellers, their housing, to call it housing is rich, shacks or poorly built structures were deliberately kept out of the city with no water no proper electricity and no education or segregated education. The problem was so bad I know universities in some countries forced by the EU to make university seats reserved for Roma students. As that's the only way they'd get in. Ironically I was treated with utter respect and love by any Roma I came across. If turkey did this they would absolutely be hammered 24/7.

A very informative post. I suppose this group is Indo-Aryan originally. The ones I met have all been White British or White Irish.

Antiziganism is recognised by the EUParl and Commission. The housing rights of the Roma are enshrined in the Europe Integration strategy but it reads like there is a way to go.

 

[Pakpak]

A very informative post. I suppose this group is Indo-Aryan originally. The ones I met have all been White British or White Irish.

Antiziganism is recognised by the EUParl and Commission. The housing rights of the Roma are enshrined in the Europe Integration strategy but it reads like there is a way to go.

You're right it is acknowledged by the EU but there is a LONG way to go. There are organisations who do work in this regard, not sure how successful they are.

 

[Technics 1210]

Remainers are mostly silent on the point of Turkey for reasons and that are obvious. Not only is the hypocrisy of remainers exposed, but so too their racism and fascism.

Europe has always been a warmongering racist continent. More people have died through the hands of Europe. They will break bread with the white race; all else is game.

Do not be fooled. Germany twice attempted to conquer Europe with their warped ideology and 2 World Wars, yet here we have Remainers desperate to hand Germany a victory.

Germany now controls Europe through the EZ/EU, and we got folk thinking wars are fought old skool style.

Remainers are an embarrassment to British values.

 

[Technics 1210]

On a side note, Remainers blow the trumpet of EU democracy and freedoms, yet ignore and subvert the result of the largest democratic result in the UK.

Remainers only approve of democracy if the result suits them. These snakes deserve to be the fuel of hell fire.

Never believe a word of democracy from the mouths of Remainers - trojen brainwashed horses.

Never let a remainer moan about USSR/Russia again.

 

[James]

Looks like a middling deal - not brilliant and also not awful - which restores a degree of sovereignty and will provide a platform for further negotiations, codicils and addendums.

There are positives, negatives, and misnomers.

The zero-tariff, zero-quota piece is a definite win. Exiting the Common Agricultural Policy will be beneficial for animal welfare. And despite obvious UK concessions in Christmas week, the transitional route out of the Common Fisheries policy is still set to gradually restore Britain's control of its waters.

Additional red tape at the borders is a hit, and could cause significant logistical and haulage issues. The new immigration bill to replace free movement has holes and flaws in it. Also, dispensing with Erasmus is a poor decision for youngsters.

The ECJ relinquishing its jurisdiction meanwhile could be a potential misnomer, as there will still be "independent arbitration panels" to settle trade and civil disputes. A different kind of faux rebrand has been applied to the much-vaunted Pet Passport, which has been less attractively packaged as the drab Animal Health Certificate --- even though the two items offer essentially the same purpose, function and particulars.

Leaving the EU without a deal would have been a great threat to jobs, the economy, and peace in Northern Ireland. These major pitfalls have been avoided. It's definitely better to get an agreement done and signed off than to leave without any agreement at all.

Time will tell on the broader long term effects, and will determine whether this whole Brexit thing was ever a good idea in the first place!

 

[ElRaja]

On a side note, Remainers blow the trumpet of EU democracy and freedoms, yet ignore and subvert the result of the largest democratic result in the UK.

was amusing to see the hard left being led by a brexiteer right when they wanted a remainer the most tho, lolol.

 

[Pakpak]

was amusing to see the hard left being led by a brexiteer right when they wanted a remainer the most tho, lolol.

Surprised you're supporting a bigot and a troll like Technics. Farage and leave said before the vote that if they lost a close vote they'd protest too.

It's unbelievable Asians supporting the vote along with the far right and racists in the UK.

 

[Bewal Express]

The UK leaving the EU has weakened both parties. The EU has lost one of its main contributors and power blocs and the UK is like a Lion looking for its own pride.

 

[Technics 1210]

The biggest fear for the EU now is if the UK economy prospers with this deal, it will set a precedent for other EU members to leave.

This ofcourse will not happen overnight, but with the UK out now, Hungary and Poland may follow suit sooner than expected.

 

[Firebat]

Brexit offers Britain chance to do financial services differently -minister

LONDON (Reuters) - Brexit offers Britain a chance to do things differently in financial services, finance minister Rishi Sunak said on Sunday, but it will co-operate with the European Union on an approach to the sector despite little detail on the topic in its trade deal.

From Jan. 1, British-based financial services groups lose automatic access to the EU’s single market, and both sides have said new market access must be negotiated outside the trade agreement in specific equivalence deals.

“Now that we’ve left the European Union, we can do things a bit differently (in financial services),” Sunak told broadcasters.

Britain and the EU clinched a trade deal on Thursday, but Prime Minister Boris Johnson has admitted it is an accord which does not have as much as he would have liked about the financial services sector and regulatory equivalence.

Under a system known as equivalence, access to EU markets will not be granted to banks, insurers and other financial firms based in Britain unless their home rules are deemed by Brussels to be “equivalent”, or as robust as regulations in the bloc.

The two sides will aim to agree a memorandum of understanding on regulatory cooperation in financial services by March 2021, and Sunak said that such language should provide reassurance.

“This deal also provides reassurance because there’s a stable regulatory co-operative framework mentioned in the deal,” he said.

“I think (that) will give people that reassurance that we will remain in close dialogue with our European partners when it comes to things like equivalence decisions.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/bri...l-services-differently-minister-idUSKBN2910AW

 

[ElRaja]

Surprised you're supporting a bigot and a troll like Technics. Farage and leave said before the vote that if they lost a close vote they'd protest too.

It's unbelievable Asians supporting the vote along with the far right and racists in the UK.

1. im not supporting @technics1210, i dont know if hes a bigot or a troll. i dont care really. i supported brexit tho, and found the irony of what i stated in the previous post amusing.

2. would be fair enough to challenge a close vote, but it was nearly 4% diff, not that close. farage would have challenged because that was his whole political career, his support would have diminished massively tho.

3. why is it unbelievable asians vote different to how you think they should?

 

[Technics 1210]

Almost every Asian I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so for a fair immigration policy. There is nothing bigoted about this. 17.4M voted, are they all bigots? According to looney left they are.

In fact it's remainers who are the bigots and racists, like PakPak, they will happily allow white Europeans through without checks, but others have to jump through rings of fire just to enter/settle in the UK.

From 1st Jan 2021 a fair and just immigration policy will come into existence.

Don't like the new and bigoted UK, then leave the country.

By the way, I cannot wait to renew my passport. Blue passport is back for anyone who was alive in the 70s/80s in the UK.

 

[Robert]

Brexit offers Britain chance to do financial services differently -minister

LONDON (Reuters) - Brexit offers Britain a chance to do things differently in financial services, finance minister Rishi Sunak said on Sunday, but it will co-operate with the European Union on an approach to the sector despite little detail on the topic in its trade deal.

From Jan. 1, British-based financial services groups lose automatic access to the EU’s single market, and both sides have said new market access must be negotiated outside the trade agreement in specific equivalence deals.

“Now that we’ve left the European Union, we can do things a bit differently (in financial services),” Sunak told broadcasters.

Britain and the EU clinched a trade deal on Thursday, but Prime Minister Boris Johnson has admitted it is an accord which does not have as much as he would have liked about the financial services sector and regulatory equivalence.

Under a system known as equivalence, access to EU markets will not be granted to banks, insurers and other financial firms based in Britain unless their home rules are deemed by Brussels to be “equivalent”, or as robust as regulations in the bloc.

The two sides will aim to agree a memorandum of understanding on regulatory cooperation in financial services by March 2021, and Sunak said that such language should provide reassurance.

“This deal also provides reassurance because there’s a stable regulatory co-operative framework mentioned in the deal,” he said.

“I think (that) will give people that reassurance that we will remain in close dialogue with our European partners when it comes to things like equivalence decisions.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/bri...l-services-differently-minister-idUSKBN2910AW

This is key because financial services are such a large part of the UK economy. I hope the thin deal we have can be built on.

I'm pleased to see that my EHIC card is still good for a few more years, so I won't have to buy health insurance when I take Mrs Robert to France and Italy (though she will have to).

So wither Remainers now? Do we become Rejoiners? I think that fight will wait for a few years. Perhaps other international alliances are possible in the short- to medium-term, with Five Eyes nations.

It's interesting that the people of NI now have the best deal in the UK - EU customs union access, and their students can still take advantage of Erasmus.

What about EurAtom? Importers and exporters must gain licensing to have access. Presumably the NHS will have to apply as a single unit.

 

[Robert]

Almost every Asian I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so for a fair immigration policy. There is nothing bigoted about this. 17.4M voted, are they all bigots? According to looney left they are.

In fact it's remainers who are the bigots and racists, like PakPak, they will happily allow white Europeans through without checks, but others have to jump through rings of fire just to enter/settle in the UK.

From 1st Jan 2021 a fair and just immigration policy will come into existence.

Don't like the new and bigoted UK, then leave the country.

By the way, I cannot wait to renew my passport. Blue passport is back for anyone who was alive in the 70s/80s in the UK.

Easier access for Asian-born people is a fair point about Brexit. I imagine that we will see more Indian faces when the trade deal with India is done - which white British racists won't like

I still have my eighties passport - it is black, not blue.

Don't think I will renew my British passport, I will stick with my Irish one which means I keep the four freedoms.

 

[Pakpak]

1. im not supporting @technics1210, i dont know if hes a bigot or a troll. i dont care really. i supported brexit tho, and found the irony of what i stated in the previous post amusing.

2. would be fair enough to challenge a close vote, but it was nearly 4% diff, not that close. farage would have challenged because that was his whole political career, his support would have diminished massively tho.

3. why is it unbelievable asians vote different to how you think they should?

I have already made tons of posts in this thread, I can't be bothered making them again.