Brian Lara or Ricky Ponting - Who was the better batsman?

[Hasan123]

Who the better player in your opnion?


I'll go with Lara just. Had to carry the West Indies batting line up and I think he was a better player of spin than Punter which gives him the advantage for me.

 

[Gilly]

I'd go with Ponting, he was a match winner and played the quicks much better than Lara which gives him the advantage for me.

 

[Chrish]

Lara easily..

Not really debatable tbh

 

[Ab Fan]

Lara..

Ponting had quite a few flaws :

Failed to carry the weaker team post the retirement of Mcgy, Gilly, Warney and Haydos.

Struggled against strongest bowling attacks.

Was a walking wicket in India.

In odis, Ponting was better though.

 

[PakLFC]

Lara for sure. Rickey excelled in a mostly excellent Aussie side where as Brain did in a mostly average West Indies one.

 

[QalandarFan]

Lara was probably better in Tests, but I am a big Ponting fan!

Ponting was Better in ODI's though.

 

[Buffet]

I will go with Lara over Ponting.

 

[Sachin136]

Ponting's peak was better, but I will go with Lara.

Ponting was better in ODIs by a fair distance.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Ponting

Lara was probably the best in the world in early 90s. After that he was way too inconsistent.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Quality pace and spin bowling always had Ponting in trouble. Lara on the other hand was so much better against any kind of bowling.

 

[Madplayer]

Ponting's peak was better, but I will go with Lara.

Ponting was better in ODIs by a fair distance.

Hard to find a better peak than Ponting's

 

[The_Odd_One]

Quality pace and spin bowling always had Ponting in trouble. Lara on the other hand was so much better against any kind of bowling.

Averages 61 in Asia (excluding India) in 14 tests.

And quality pace has never troubled Ponting. That is the most absurd thing to say. The guy was a beast and probably the best batsman against pace in the last 2 decades, averages 67 vs Pakistan and 47 vs SA, two best pace bowling teams of his time.

 

[Zak_Fan]

Averages 61 in Asia (excluding India) in 14 tests.

And quality pace has never troubled Ponting. That is the most absurd thing to say. The guy was a beast and probably the best batsman against pace in the last 2 decades, averages 67 vs Pakistan and 47 vs SA, two best pace bowling teams of his time.

Tell me more about the Pakistani attack he dominated. Don't go by reputations blindly. Wasim and Waqar were a shadow of themselves when Ponting hit his peak. As for the South African attack, please check Ponting's average in matches where Steyn and Morkel played.

Not to mention, among the so called ATGs, Ponting is the only one to average a disappointing 40 in two continents where he played most of his matches outside Australia. I am not hating on him, but he is simply nowhere in comparison to Lara.

 

[Itachi]

Ponting.... Lara was too inconsistent.

 

[starbuck]

Tests - Lara

ODI's - Ponting

Test + ODI's - Ponting

 

[The_Odd_One]

Tell me more about the Pakistani attack he dominated. Don't go by reputations blindly. Wasim and Waqar were a shadow of themselves when Ponting hit his peak. As for the South African attack, please check Ponting's average in matches where Steyn and Morkel played.

Not to mention, among the so called ATGs, Ponting is the only one to average a disappointing 40 in two continents where he played most of his matches outside Australia. I am not hating on him, but he is simply nowhere in comparison to Lara.

I do not even need to pull up detailed stats for Ponting. When someone bats at one down and plays 128 of his 168 games in Australia, England, SA, and NZ and still averages 52, has to be a bloody good batsmen against pace bowling.

 

[Hitman]

I'm a big fan of both of them. And both of them were fantastic, so won't be able to pick one. I'd say it's even-steven.

 

[Napa]

Who the better player in your opnion?

Has to be Kohli

 

[JaDed]

Lara in tests and Ponting in ODI.

 

[MMHS]

Lara by some margin. Being a non Asian batsman, he was the best ever spin payer I had seen & he had century at WACA, J'burg as well against stiff bounce. Besides, he was probably the best batsman on difficult wicket. Ponting's peak was phenomenal, and to his luck AUS played lots of Test that time, but still he struggled at his peak against spin (robbed in IND) & swing bowling. He played for one of the best ever teams & most of the time he thumped opponents form a dominating position, but those few occasions like in IND, SRL, he couldn't raise above the challenge.

In ODI, Lara is one of the most under rated batsman ever, because most of the posters haven't seen him between 1990 to 1995-96; when he batted in top 3. AFter that, he faded away in ODI, but for those 5/6 years, he was the most dominant ODI player who reserved his best for the best & for the big matches. Ponting's overall ODI record puts him statistically at upper spot, but Lara was unmatched in those 5/6 years.

 

[Robert]

Lara because he faced better bowlers. He was unstoppable. I find that this place overrates Ponting. He did not turn into a run machine until the really good quicks were bowing out.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Prefer to watch Ponting.

 

[Timewaster]

Lara, I remember a 37 year old Lara scoring a hundred in Aussie in Tests. But the thing that impressed me the most in that innings was his pull shots against Brett Lee bowling 150kph every ball,and Lara just getting on top of the bounce and pulling him in front of square

 

[pacesensation]

Has to be Kohli

even kkr guy wasim akram admitted that lara was the toughest to bowl to

waqar admitted that lara was the most difficult bowler to bowl at
majority of indians think (in their own mind) sachin is better than kohli


so lara is better than both sachin and kohli. )

 

[pacesensation]

Lara by some margin. Being a non Asian batsman, he was the best ever spin payer I had seen & he had century at WACA, J'burg as well against stiff bounce. Besides, he was probably the best batsman on difficult wicket. Ponting's peak was phenomenal, and to his luck AUS played lots of Test that time, but still he struggled at his peak against spin (robbed in IND) & swing bowling. He played for one of the best ever teams & most of the time he thumped opponents form a dominating position, but those few occasions like in IND, SRL, he couldn't raise above the challenge.

In ODI, Lara is one of the most under rated batsman ever, because most of the posters haven't seen him between 1990 to 1995-96; when he batted in top 3. AFter that, he faded away in ODI, but for those 5/6 years, he was the most dominant ODI player who reserved his best for the best & for the big matches. Ponting's overall ODI record puts him statistically at upper spot, but Lara was unmatched in those 5/6 years.

who do you think is the best player of these three lara ponting and sachin

1 when we are talking about match winning abilities?

2 and who is best among them in your own personal opinion?

 

[Hasan123]

Has to be Kohli

Lol has a long way to go to get to the levels of Punter and Lara

 

[Hasan123]

Lara by some margin. Being a non Asian batsman, he was the best ever spin payer I had seen & he had century at WACA, J'burg as well against stiff bounce. Besides, he was probably the best batsman on difficult wicket. Ponting's peak was phenomenal, and to his luck AUS played lots of Test that time, but still he struggled at his peak against spin (robbed in IND) & swing bowling. He played for one of the best ever teams & most of the time he thumped opponents form a dominating position, but those few occasions like in IND, SRL, he couldn't raise above the challenge.

In ODI, Lara is one of the most under rated batsman ever, because most of the posters haven't seen him between 1990 to 1995-96; when he batted in top 3. AFter that, he faded away in ODI, but for those 5/6 years, he was the most dominant ODI player who reserved his best for the best & for the big matches. Ponting's overall ODI record puts him statistically at upper spot, but Lara was unmatched in those 5/6 years.

Why did he fade away in odis after 96 than? After 96 in your opnion did he underachieve in odis?

 

[TestMatch]

Lara for me, mostly because he played for a weaker team and played tougher bowlers.

Why did he fade away in odis after 96 than? After 96 in your opnion did he underachieve in odis?

Moved down the ODI order, and kept changing positions, from 98 onwards to let younger players into the team. Bad management. Should have always opened.

 

[Hasan123]

Lara for me, mostly because he played for a weaker team and played tougher bowlers.



Moved down the ODI order, and kept changing positions, from 98 onwards to let younger players into the team. Bad management. Should have always opened.

Ah right he should have always batted in the top 3 in odis

 

[Hasan123]

Sachin and Lara are 2 players I will always respect no matter what because of the way they had to carry there batting line up for many years. Even if they scored big there was no guarantee that they would win the match as the other batsmen didn't always support them. Indias bowling also wasn't very strong so this put Sachin under more pressure when batting.

Doing it for so long is something that should be admired and respected by all cricket fans.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Lara both in test and odi, don't go by stats in odi , Lara stopped playing at top 3 position and his stats took a hit, his 100 against south Africa in 96 world cup was thing to watch.

 

[Protea Fan]

People always talk about the one side when comes to ponting

Yes he had a very good team with some solid openers, so his job was always easier and he hasn't had too many single handed over my dead body kind of innings from as like lara

But just think he was from australia he wouldn't have had a long career as we all know the australian board mindset: “Sack the player if he is not in form, even if he is the captain" ......and ponting accomplished everything in this circumstance

Anyone who watch peak ponting will know there were times the opposition did not want take the first australian wicket which meant ponting would come to the crease such is his impact….I atll think lara ahead in test because ponting has got one of the worst decline in late but he emerged from the front in crucial matches and he led his team to most victories, most WW, most series so i always rate ponting only second to sachin overall as a batsman

 

[street cricketer]

Quality pace and spin bowling always had Ponting in trouble. Lara on the other hand was so much better against any kind of bowling.

You are underselling Punter here. Yes, he had his struggles against spin but not pace. He was one of the best (definitely the best I've ever seen) players of the short ball and he didn't really struggle against pace bowling. Ponting had the perk of playing in a stronger team, but I think people are underselling Ponting here a bit. Lara ironically didn't have a single ton against any great genuine pacer he faced in his career.

 

[Bewal Express]

Lara is certainly the most entertaining of the guys usually mentioned amongst the ATG but his legacy for me is sullied by his selfishness for the 2 records on dead pitches and his running away from Glen McGrath at Perth. Great batsman don't run away from great bowlers.

 

[Chrish]

Pointing is light years ahead in OdI.. it's not up to debate really

My assessment is based on test

 

[Chrish]

Quality pace and spin bowling always had Ponting in trouble. Lara on the other hand was so much better against any kind of bowling.

Ponting was undoubtedly better player of pace among his generation

 

[MMHS]

who do you think is the best player of these three lara ponting and sachin

1 when we are talking about match winning abilities?

2 and who is best among them in your own personal opinion?

In terms of match winning abilities I'll go with the order you have put - Lara, Ponting & Tendulkar
In terms of best batsman, I'll go with Lara, Tendulkar, Ponting as Ponting struggled against spin & swing
In terms of pure batting perfection, I'll go by Tendulkar, Lara & Ponting. The first 2 were outstanding with their technique, therefore even in late 30s, they were top players under difficult condition.

Someone mentioned here - I didn't list that innings as one of the best in loses as it was made in 1st innings, but that 223 at Adelaide at 36+ indicates how good Lara was. Same can be said for ST - his innings against Styen were near perfect innings. In that regard, Panta faded away once his eye & reflex reached 35 years of age.

3 wonderful players - I kept Lara in my first XI of all-time Test team & the other 2 in 2nd XI along with Greg Chappel, because Ponting at his prime was almost unreal (unless it starts to spin sharp).

 

[anikrc1]

In terms of match winning abilities I'll go with the order you have put - Lara, Ponting & Tendulkar
In terms of best batsman, I'll go with Lara, Tendulkar, Ponting as Ponting struggled against spin & swing
In terms of pure batting perfection, I'll go by Tendulkar, Lara & Ponting. The first 2 were outstanding with their technique, therefore even in late 30s, they were top players under difficult condition.

Someone mentioned here - I didn't list that innings as one of the best in loses as it was made in 1st innings, but that 223 at Adelaide at 36+ indicates how good Lara was. Same can be said for ST - his innings against Styen were near perfect innings. In that regard, Panta faded away once his eye & reflex reached 35 years of age.

3 wonderful players - I kept Lara in my first XI of all-time Test team & the other 2 in 2nd XI along with Greg Chappel, because Ponting at his prime was almost unreal (unless it starts to spin sharp).

interesting. why do you reverse your order of lara and sachin in best batsman and in pure batting perfection? i can understand the ranking being different in match-winning abilities. but don't being ahead in batting perfection mean you are a better batsman or vice versa ?( i am assuming batting perfection consisits of all required aributes of a batsman like defensive technique, shot making ability, tempearment etc)

 

[MMHS]

interesting. why do you reverse your order of lara and sachin in best batsman and in pure batting perfection? i can understand the ranking being different in match-winning abilities. but don't being ahead in batting perfection mean you are a better batsman or vice versa ?( i am assuming batting perfection consisits of all required aributes of a batsman like defensive technique, shot making ability, tempearment etc)

I put it this way - if I want to describe a perfect batsman to someone trying to be a pro cricketer; I'll take ST - technique, balance, all-round game against spin, pace, front/back foot attacking & defensive game, hunger for runs, value for wicket - you name an idol for a batsman, it was him.

But professional sports is not about coaching manual only, you have find a way to do it in the middle & on time. On pure driving skills, Alain Prost was probably better than both Senna & Schumi - but the later two were crazy on wheel, in rain, in corners, in overtaking. In every sports you find some genius who were beyond coaching manual -think about Ali, Seb Balestoros, Ronnie O'Sullivan .. they did things in their own way which they were master. As a fast bowler, I'll always suggest to follow Mac, but few things that Wasim could do were unreal.

Tendulkar is a near perfect batting prototype which you can use as a specimen; but think about him & Virat 5 years later....

 

[Barragan]

Lara.

Ponting couldn't even handle harbajhan. LOL

 

[anikrc1]

have seen only schumi among them.so can't really relate to your examples

 

[Justcrazy]

Lara , every day.

 

[pacesensation]

In terms of match winning abilities I'll go with the order you have put - Lara, Ponting & Tendulkar
In terms of best batsman, I'll go with Lara, Tendulkar, Ponting as Ponting struggled against spin & swing
In terms of pure batting perfection, I'll go by Tendulkar, Lara & Ponting. The first 2 were outstanding with their technique, therefore even in late 30s, they were top players under difficult condition.

Someone mentioned here - I didn't list that innings as one of the best in loses as it was made in 1st innings, but that 223 at Adelaide at 36+ indicates how good Lara was. Same can be said for ST - his innings against Styen were near perfect innings. In that regard, Panta faded away once his eye & reflex reached 35 years of age.

3 wonderful players - I kept Lara in my first XI of all-time Test team & the other 2 in 2nd XI along with Greg Chappel, because Ponting at his prime was almost unreal (unless it starts to spin sharp).

It was a real shame tbh

When i started watching cricket in 1996, people would say lara lara lara but i never really saw that magic of hs in odis that he used to demonstrate in period 1990-1995. I mean he hammered wasim and waqar at their peak.


Btw, my personal favorite is ponting. I did not know much about him but in mini world cup 1998 he scored 60ish against india in a losing cause.
Then him and gilly chased 300 against us. Then in 1999 when they were 3 for 48, he still pulled elworthy for a six in that pressure situation, i think he scored 2 sixes.

When i saw that innings of his i recognized him as one of the best. He was so young and yet he showed nerves of steel.

 

[Hasan123]

Lara is certainly the most entertaining of the guys usually mentioned amongst the ATG but his legacy for me is sullied by his selfishness for the 2 records on dead pitches and his running away from Glen McGrath at Perth. Great batsman don't run away from great bowlers.

How did he run away from McGrath?

 

[MMHS]

How did he run away from McGrath?

He did indeed.

In 1996 WACA Test, he came to bat about 30 minutes before lunch - then somehow managed to go to lunch for 1. AUS was all-out in Day 1 & Mac bowled 25 overs in Day 2; 18 when Lara was at wicket & throughout this period ball ran away from his bat until he was out for 132 in 3.5 hours at 73 SR, on a wicket, where a Test finished in 8 sessions.

Who haven't seen Lara in WSC of 1996, 1992 or in SAF 1993, doesn't know what was BC Lara in ODI.

 

[Dead Ball]

People using Ponting's away record as an argument to say Lara was better need to have a closer look at Lara's away record.

Lara was mediocre in India and NZ. Very very inconsistent in Aus despite his borderline 40 average there courtesy of a couple of dead rubber tons. In both his 1996 and 2005 tours in Aus he didnt score runs when the series was alive. In Pakistan too, it wasn't until he faced one of the worst Pakistani attacks in history that he managed to gather a couple of tons.( consisting of Gul/Nazir/Kaneria/Razzaq/Malik) Before that he averaged 22 in Pakistan.

As far as away performances as concerned, there is little to separate both.

Both formats combined, i would take Ponting by a whisker despite acknowledging that Lara probably had the greatest ODI peak in the early 90's.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I think this thread warrants a detailed comparison.

Performance throughout their careers
------------------------------------------

Let's compare their cumulative averages:

First 25 tests: Lara=56, Ponting=40
<b>First 50 tests: Lara=51, Ponting=45
First 75 tests: Lara=48, Ponting=56
First 100 tests: Lara=52, Ponting=58</b>
First 125 tests: Lara=53, Ponting=57
After 131 tests: Lara = 53, Ponting=56 (Lara retired)

As you can clearly see, Lara was the best batsman in the world in the first half of the 90s. He had a dream start but his average fell from 56 to 48 in the next 50 tests that he played from the mid 90s to early 2000s.

From Jan 1 1996 to Dec 31, 2002, Lara just averaged 44 in 55 matches.

He had another peak from 2003, averaged 60 in 41 tests which brought his average back to 53 when he retired.

So, the argument that Ponting had a peak when all ATGs retired or were in their twilight years apply to Lara's 2nd peak as well.

However, like most batsmen, Ponting had a slow start then he hit an astounding peak after that he had sharp decline which lowered his overall career average.

Lara, on the other hand, had a phenomenal start, hit a rock bottom in the middle and then had another peak before he retired.


Consistency
-------------

Now, let's take the series in which they averaged 50+. Lara did so in 17 of 39 series, Ponting did it in 25 of his 59 series.

The ratio is 0.43 which is about the same for both batsmen.

Now, let's take the innings in which Lara scored a 50+ score. He did so in 82 of his 232 innings that is in every 2.8 innings.

Ponting did the same in 103 of his 287 innings that is in every 2.8 innings.

Again, the ratio is about the same.

Interestingly, the ratio for this innings in which they scored less than 30 is also about the same which is in every 2nd inning.


Performance against top bowlers of their time
---------------------------------------------------

One more thing to notice is that if Ponting never had to face Warne and McGrath then Lara also never had to face Ambrose and Walsh.

Against Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, Pollock, and Steyn, Ponting averages 51 in 42 matches.

Against Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Donald, Pollock, McGrath, and Warne, Lara averages 44 in 51 matches.


Performance in Countries
-----------------------------

The 3 worst countries for Lara were 33 in India, 37 in NZ, and 42 in Australia. Lara averages 50+ only in WI, SL, and Zimbabwe. Lara averages less than 40 only in India and NZ.

The 3 worst countries for Ponting were 26 in India, 31 in Zimbabwe, and 42 in England. Ponting averages 50+ in Australia, NZ, Pakistan/UAE, SL, and Bangladesh. Ponting averages less than 40 only in India and Zimbabwe. Note that Ponting just played one test in Zimbabwe.

So, in most of the countries, Ponting did better than Lara.


Conclusion
------------

Ponting did better than Lara in the same number of matches that Lara played. However, Ponting had one of the worst terminal declines which took his average from 58 to 52. I think in ODIs, Ponting was comfortable better and in tests, he was as good as Lara if not better. So, that makes him a better overall batsman for me.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Lara from 1992 to 1998 averaged 50 at 80 SR. Ponting never had such a great peak in ODIs. However, Ponting had a much longer career and ended with better stats 42@80 and 30 100s compared to Lara's 40@80 and 19 100s despite playing 76 more games.

 

[Hasan123]

He did indeed.

In 1996 WACA Test, he came to bat about 30 minutes before lunch - then somehow managed to go to lunch for 1. AUS was all-out in Day 1 & Mac bowled 25 overs in Day 2; 18 when Lara was at wicket & throughout this period ball ran away from his bat until he was out for 132 in 3.5 hours at 73 SR, on a wicket, where a Test finished in 8 sessions.

Who haven't seen Lara in WSC of 1996, 1992 or in SAF 1993, doesn't know what was BC Lara in ODI.

Ahh interesting.

Never saw Lara in the nineties so when I see his odi stats seem as though he underachieved

 

[Bewal Express]

How did he run away from McGrath?

It was a test at Perth for which I can't remember the date but when I originally made this point someone found the cricinfo commentary. From memory a player flicked to fine leg and Lara refused the single because McGrath was rampant.

 

[MMHS]

Why did he fade away in odis after 96 than? After 96 in your opnion did he underachieve in odis?

Could be that he lost interest in that format, because there were too many ODI matches played that time by WI. If you are a player who loves to hit boundary, sometimes ODI batting can be boring.

Lara is someone, once set he was unstoppable, hence concentration should never be an issue for him. But, I saw him several times wasting good starts in ODI & not converting big scores - the same player had probably 20 innings of 150+ in Test; a 500, 2 or 2 other 300+ in FC cricket. In 1993 & 1994 County season, he probably had 15 scores of 150 or more in FC cricket & about 2/3rd of those in boundaries. I just didn't find him the player who'll put 4 balls to long on/off or sweeper cover & walk a single.

Sometimes in 1998, he scored a 44 ball hundred against us at Dhaka - just after getting 100, he played on in 16th or 17th over, with every fielder started to move from out side of line (inner or outer circle) - a single was given at will. After his innings, someone told him that he missed the chance to get a double in ODI in 30+ overs when he was out for 115 (?). He said something like it's too boring to bat after 15 overs (those days fielding restrictions). This is the same man, a bit selfishly scored 375 & 401* in Test.

I actually have found him to be far better ODI player in low scoring matches where Captains often put 6 men inside circle - even on belters, against spread-out fielding, he was too impatient for his standard of concentration.

 

[hk031992]

Performance against top bowlers of their time
---------------------------------------------------

One more thing to notice is that if Ponting never had to face Warne and McGrath then Lara also never had to face Ambrose and Walsh.

Against Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, Pollock, and Steyn, Ponting averages 51 in 42 matches.

Against Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Donald, Pollock, McGrath, and Warne, Lara averages 44 in 51 matches.

.

This is why its so silly to compare stats

Lara faced Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Pollock, McGrath and Warne and Murali AT THEIR PEAKS. That is seven all time great bowlers who were all in/around their prime when Lara faced them multiple times. Akhtar was a dangerous bowler and was devestating on his day even though he falls short of all time greatness.

Lara had to deal with these bowlers for most of his prime

On the other hand, there was not a single ATG quick in the early 2000's until Steyn emerged in 08. McGrath was the only one and he was playing for Pontings team. Pollock was not the same bowler in the 2000's. Neither were the two W's and Walsh and Ambrose were gone by 2000/01

Of course Ponting was going to have better stats vs these guys. He faced them when they were in the later stages of their careers and were fading away. Lara faced them when they were at their absolute peak.

Apples and oranges really. Lara had to face geniune ATG bowlers from the start of his career until nearly the end. Ponting faced some of these guys and did not have to consistently deal with them especially at his peak.

 

[Chrish]

 

[The_Odd_One]

This is why its so silly to compare stats

Lara faced Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Pollock, McGrath and Warne and Murali AT THEIR PEAKS. That is seven all time great bowlers who were all in/around their prime when Lara faced them multiple times. Akhtar was a dangerous bowler and was devestating on his day even though he falls short of all time greatness.

Lara had to deal with these bowlers for most of his prime

On the other hand, there was not a single ATG quick in the early 2000's until Steyn emerged in 08. McGrath was the only one and he was playing for Pontings team. Pollock was not the same bowler in the 2000's. Neither were the two W's and Walsh and Ambrose were gone by 2000/01

Of course Ponting was going to have better stats vs these guys. He faced them when they were in the later stages of their careers and were fading away. Lara faced them when they were at their absolute peak.

Apples and oranges really. Lara had to face geniune ATG bowlers from the start of his career until nearly the end. Ponting faced some of these guys and did not have to consistently deal with them especially at his peak.

You took one part of my post and clearly left out another one.

Lara's first peak was from 1991-95. He averaged in 40s between 1996 to 2002. From 2003 onwards, he had one final peak. So, if lack of ATG fast bowlers is the reason for Ponting's peak so the same should be true for Lara. Now before mentioning McGrath and Warne, remember that Lara for a decade did not have to face his own bowlers like Ambrose, Walsh, and Bishop.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Also one thing which people completely ignore is that you don't have to be an ATG bowler to run through opposition team's batting. Asif and Aamir did it in 2010 and they are not ATGs. Any bowler can hit a purple patch in any series. The right way of looking at it is to compare bowling averages on series by series basis.

 

[hk031992]

You took one part of my post and clearly left out another one.

Lara's first peak was from 1991-95. He averaged in 40s between 1996 to 2002. From 2003 onwards, he had one final peak. So, if lack of ATG fast bowlers is the reason for Ponting's peak so the same should be true for Lara. Now before mentioning McGrath and Warne, remember that Lara for a decade did not have to face his own bowlers like Ambrose, Walsh, and Bishop.

nobody is saying that lack of ATG bowlers is the reason for Pontings peak. Ponting was my favourite batsmen during the 2000s, is still one of my favourites. But comparing his average to Lara's vs specific bowlers is misleading because Lara faced seven generally considered all time greats for a decade. Ponting faced some atg's on a less regular basis and most of them were already past their primes.

Yes Lara did not face Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop. But he did regularly face five other generally considered atgs for a decade when all of these guys were in their prime. The same can't be said for Ponting.

Its very close between these two. However, as good as Ponting was, i don't remember him having as dominant a series vs a world class attack as Lara had vs the Australians in 99. Yes, Ponting did play some great knocks vs great bowlers but Lara gets the edge there.

In ODI,s, Ponting is slightly better. In tests, Lara is slightly ahead.

 

[Hasan123]

It was a test at Perth for which I can't remember the date but when I originally made this point someone found the cricinfo commentary. From memory a player flicked to fine leg and Lara refused the single because McGrath was rampant.

Not many people bring that up. People on this forum prefer to mention his selfishness over this incident

 

[Boxer]

Lara at his prime was matched only by one and it was not Ponting

 

[Bewal Express]

Not many people bring that up. People on this forum prefer to mention his selfishness over this incident

Make no mistake Lara along with Viv and Sehwag is amongst the 3 most entertaining players to play test cricket. But I think he was too selfish and this incident along with Donald destroying him when they were both at the their peak in 97 has slightly sullied his otherwise great career.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Ponting, Lara is overrated and a selfish player.

 

[Hitman]

Lara at his prime was matched only by one and it was not Ponting

Sachin, right?

 

[SL_Fan]

In Tests Lara but in LOIs Ponting. Overall it’s a close call but Lara just ahead for mine. As cricketers tho I would go with Ponting. Besides the batting one of the greatest ever fielders and captains to go with it.

 

[The_Odd_One]

nobody is saying that lack of ATG bowlers is the reason for Pontings peak. Ponting was my favourite batsmen during the 2000s, is still one of my favourites. But comparing his average to Lara's vs specific bowlers is misleading because Lara faced seven generally considered all time greats for a decade. Ponting faced some atg's on a less regular basis and most of them were already past their primes.

Yes Lara did not face Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop. But he did regularly face five other generally considered atgs for a decade when all of these guys were in their prime. The same can't be said for Ponting.

Its very close between these two. However, as good as Ponting was, i don't remember him having as dominant a series vs a world class attack as Lara had vs the Australians in 99. Yes, Ponting did play some great knocks vs great bowlers but Lara gets the edge there.

In ODI,s, Ponting is slightly better. In tests, Lara is slightly ahead.

Lara averages 30 in 7 matches he played against Wasim and Waqar and did not not score a single century.

Lara did not score a single century vs SA when Donald played. His 2 centuries came in 2003/2004 when Donald retired and as per you Pollock was not the same bowler. Both of those matches were high scoring.

Lara did better against Australia, that I agree.

So, you cannot use the logic that Lara scored runs facing ATG bowlers in their peak when that was certainly not the case.

 

[transitional]

Lara by miles.

 

[Pantani]

Lara slightly in tests. His penchant for big scores puts him ahead of Ponting, who never got a triple hundred.

Ponting in ODIs by a considerable margin. He has the better stats and also played a number of remarkable innings, in the 2003 WC final, in the 434-438 game, and in the 2011 WC quarter final.

 

[hk031992]

Lara averages 30 in 7 matches he played against Wasim and Waqar and did not not score a single century.

Lara did not score a single century vs SA when Donald played. His 2 centuries came in 2003/2004 when Donald retired and as per you Pollock was not the same bowler. Both of those matches were high scoring.

Lara did better against Australia, that I agree.

So, you cannot use the logic that Lara scored runs facing ATG bowlers in their peak when that was certainly not the case.

That was not my logic. My logic was that Lara's average was negatively affected by having to face seven atg bowlers for the vast majority of his prime.