British Muslim schoolteacher denied entry to US

[TahirFan]

CNN) — A British teacher on a school field trip was escorted off an Icelandair flight to New York as 39 students looked on in shock.

"As I was making my way out of the plane I looked back at the kids to tell them everything was going to be okay. The look I got off the kids, they were shocked, they couldn't believe what was happening. This is when I felt like I was a criminal," Juhel Miah, a math teacher at Llangatwg Comprehensive School in Wales told CNN.



Miah, 25, was one of four school staff accompanying the children, aged 12-15, on a trip to New York, that included a one-night stopover in Reykjavik, Iceland.


British citizen

Miah, who is Muslim, was born in Birmingham, England, and grew up in Swansea, Wales. The trip was due to be his first visit to the US. He was traveling on his British passport with a US visitor's visa, he told CNN. Miah is not a citizen of any other country.








'Ticked all the right boxes'

"It all started when I met the first official. I gave her my passport. My first name is Mohammad. Straight away she looked at me and said you have been randomly selected for a security check," Miah told CNN.

After a brief search, Miah was allowed to board the plane. But shortly after that, he was informed he had been denied entry to the US and wouldn't be able to travel.

"I asked her on what ground was I denied access. I got my ESTA [US visitor's] visa, I have a British passport, I ticked all the rights boxes. She did not give me an answer," he said.

Icelandair told CNN, "We refused carriage to Mr. Miah based on a recommendation from the US Customs and Border Protection Agency and line with our conditions of carriage."

The school trip proceeded but the teacher's removal from the flight left students "shocked and distressed," the school district said in a statement. The students, aged 12-15, returned from the US on Monday.

Miah returned to the United Kingdom the following day.


'Act of discrimination'

In a letter to British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, Carwyn Jones, the First Minister of Wales, said the incident appeared to be "an act of discrimination against a UK passport holder, and asked Johnson to seek an explanation from US authorities.

Jones said the incident appeared to contradict Foreign Office advice for UK citizens traveling to the US, and statements made by Johnson.

Days after President Donald Trump's executive order travel ban was signed on January 27, Johnson told the House of Commons, "We have received assurances from the U.S. Embassy that this executive order will make no difference to any British passport holder, irrespective of their country of birth or whether they hold another passport."

The British Foreign Office said in a statement provided to CNN, "We are providing support to a British man who was prevented from boarding a flight in Reykjavik," but did not provide further details.

The Muslim Council of Wales said it was "deeply troubled" by the incident.

 

[Rayyman]

Disgraceful.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] me dream of attending the grandest stage of them all WRESTLEMANIA! one day may have been shattered , what if I change me name to paul, follow George Michaels version of religion and where like loads of foundation/make-up so you know I get away with it hehe will I have a chance then?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I love stories like this, anything which portrays the Americans as a bunch of Tea Party rednecks always makes Britain look far more civilised in all the ways that really matter. You can only feel sympathy for the Pakistani Muslims living in the US, most of them probably walk around wearing 'I heart Donald Trump' t-shirts and waving silly US flags just to avoid being abused in the streets.

No wonder the guy in the picture is wearing a broad smile on his face, he's probably thinking the same thing.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] rofl rofl convert to Takerism. Submit to the Higher Power.

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] me dream of attending the grandest stage of them all WRESTLEMANIA! one day may have been shattered , what if I change me name to paul, follow George Michaels version of religion and where like loads of foundation/make-up so you know I get away with it hehe will I have a chance then?

Grow a beard, don't have a shower for a month, find some tree chopping attire and change your name to Bear Grylls and you'll be fine. With a bit of luck, you might even get take part in the Royal Rumble

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] rofl rofl convert to Takerism. Submit to the Higher Power.

Grow a beard, don't have a shower for a month, find some tree chopping attire and change your name to Bear Grylls and you'll be fine. With a bit of luck, you might even get take part in the Royal Rumble

Am coming

 

[Yossarian]

[MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] me dream of attending the grandest stage of them all WRESTLEMANIA! one day may have been shattered , what if I change me name to paul, follow George Michaels version of religion and where like loads of foundation/make-up so you know I get away with it hehe will I have a chance then?

Don't worry, they have access to all of Her Majesty's Passport Office I.T. Systems, meaning your previous name and passport history. Along with access to most other UK government databases such as Police records, Immigration etc. It's just that the UK government hasn't told the UK public about it.

 

[Usman]

Truly shocking. The Brits started it with Brexit - we all know that the reason why the illiterate voted in their masses for Brexit was because fundamentally, they are racists. The plague then spread to America. Now it's spreading to both the Netherlands and France.

I honestly did not believe that in my life time I would witness Muslims being discriminated against like this. The Holocaust was just a few decades ago - within the lifetime of some people alive today. The fact that it's happening again is down to the sheer stupidity of the masses. They are too dumb to even understand.

Yet the signs have been there for some time. Before this latest wave of anti-Islam started, I was on a trip to Germany with several other white British people. One by one I watched customs let everyone through with smiles and laughter. When it was my turn, I was stopped and the atmosphere changed. In quite an aggressive manner, I was asked a series of questions about why I had come to Germany, what were my intentions, where I was staying, when I was checking out, when my return flight was etc etc.

The experience left me shaken - I asked myself, what was the difference between me and everyone else? We all held British passports. I came to the conclusion that the difference was the colour of my skin and my Muslim name. And this was Germany - a country which is supposedly more tolerant than most. I was eventually let in and I put the whole thing behind me, had a fantastic time in Germany where the locals were very friendly. It just goes to show though that we live in a world become less and less tolerant with every passing day, and that is sad.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=758]Usman[/MENTION] to characterise Brexit purely as a racist thing is untrue. A lot of British Pakistanis in my local area voted for Brexit too. Also its a severe mischaracterisation to say another Holocaust is happening. The Holocaust happened due to unique historical and socio political circumstances. The horrors of the Nazis is drilled into all Westerners. All of Europe now are democracies not fascist dictatorships and this is a Europe that has known peace and stability for 70 odd years. The horrors of war and militarism is all there for us to see.

 

[Usman]

[MENTION=758]Usman[/MENTION] to characterise Brexit purely as a racist thing is untrue. A lot of British Pakistanis in my local area voted for Brexit too. Also its a severe mischaracterisation to say another Holocaust is happening. The Holocaust happened due to unique historical and socio political circumstances. The horrors of the Nazis is drilled into all Westerners. All of Europe now are democracies not fascist dictatorships and this is a Europe that has known peace and stability for 70 odd years. The horrors of war and militarism is all there for us to see.

I go back to my point about stupidity and racism. I too know of Pakistanis who voted for Brexit and if you ask them why, the answer you generally get is "oh there are too many Romanians and Poles in this country". That's stupid because a) these Pakistanis are either first or second generation immigrants b) if anyone spoke about them in these terms, they would cry racism c) every credible piece of research has shown that just as many people enter the UK from outside Europe as inside Europe, so to single out Europeans as the problem is stupid and to expect their numbers to drastically reduce post-brexit is also unrealistic. Couple that with the fact that Brexit affects the City of London's ability to make money and therefore pay taxes which bankroll the rest of the country, most of which survives on the hand out from London (paying for everything from free health care, benefits, schools etc), and you can see why the decision is stupid. The reason that the stats show that illiterate people voted in their masses for Brexit is because those capable of thinking mostly could see past all the hate speech. Like Trump supporters in America however, illiterate people seemed to really quite liked the idea of being racist.

I didn't say another Holocaust is happening but we are certainly seeing again the events which led up to it. I am not saying that we will end up with concentration camps, but Brexit and Trump are two of the biggest signs of growing intolerance and the elections in France and the Netherlands may result in far right leaders taking the presidency - the once unthinkable is now looking more and more possible. Even Germany has seen the rise in right wing populism but given that country's history, the rise of the right to power is not likely. It's not looking good for the rest of us.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Where are all them Trump Supporters ?????

 

[Yossarian]

Truly shocking. The Brits started it with Brexit - we all know that the reason why the illiterate voted in their masses for Brexit was because fundamentally, they are racists. The plague then spread to America. Now it's spreading to both the Netherlands and France.

I honestly did not believe that in my life time I would witness Muslims being discriminated against like this. The Holocaust was just a few decades ago - within the lifetime of some people alive today. The fact that it's happening again is down to the sheer stupidity of the masses. They are too dumb to even understand.

Yet the signs have been there for some time. Before this latest wave of anti-Islam started, I was on a trip to Germany with several other white British people. One by one I watched customs let everyone through with smiles and laughter. When it was my turn, I was stopped and the atmosphere changed. In quite an aggressive manner, I was asked a series of questions about why I had come to Germany, what were my intentions, where I was staying, when I was checking out, when my return flight was etc etc.

The experience left me shaken - I asked myself, what was the difference between me and everyone else? We all held British passports. I came to the conclusion that the difference was the colour of my skin and my Muslim name. And this was Germany - a country which is supposedly more tolerant than most. I was eventually let in and I put the whole thing behind me, had a fantastic time in Germany where the locals were very friendly. It just goes to show though that we live in a world become less and less tolerant with every passing day, and that is sad.

For many years I've never had any negative experiences going in and out of European countries. There was one time however when we had our annual company conference in Spain. About 10 of us were on a separate flight to the other main groups. I was the only 'non white' in the group. Just like your experience in Germany, all of my colleagues were allowed through customs without being stopped, whereas I was 'randomly' picked out and had every item in my luggage examined.

At the rate which attitudes are changing, I worry about my kids and the problems they may face when they grow up and start travelling around Europe in similar circumstances to myself.

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=758]Usman[/MENTION] to characterise Brexit purely as a racist thing is untrue. A lot of British Pakistanis in my local area voted for Brexit too. Also its a severe mischaracterisation to say another Holocaust is happening. The Holocaust happened due to unique historical and socio political circumstances. The horrors of the Nazis is drilled into all Westerners. All of Europe now are democracies not fascist dictatorships and this is a Europe that has known peace and stability for 70 odd years. The horrors of war and militarism is all there for us to see.

Good post. Yes there's an increase in hateful rhetoric towards Muslims but we are many, many steps removed from the point of state-sanctioned violence or apartheid against Muslims. We now have a system of international laws and rights that came out of the wreckage of WW2 so any European government attempting to revive 30s-style fascism will receive immediate pushback. These parties like UKIP, FN and others, whilst I disagree strongly with their politics, are powderpuff compared to their 1930s predecessors.

However what is ghastly is the toxic rhetoric towards minorities that is now commonplace on social media, fuelled by fake news filth like Breitbart and Drudge Report who spread lies about "Muslim refugee crime waves in Europe" to legitimise their racism. The "alt right" are trying to make bigotry fashionable and appealing to the younger generation through memes, video gaming communities and chatrooms.

Take this Milos Yiannopoulos guy for example, an absolute no-mark who has made himself a minor celebrity on the back of popularising casual bigotry on the internet whilst hiding under the banner of free speech.

 

[Markhor]

At the rate which attitudes are changing, I worry about my kids and the problems they may face when they grow up and start travelling around Europe in similar circumstances to myself.

The progress that minorities have made since the 1960s is under attack. We need young Muslims to engage in local and national politics, make their voice heard in the media and reverse this tide of poison and hatred. That'll require them to get off Snapchat and Instagram, and see what's going on in the world.

There's an old song about racism by Big Bill Broonzy and the chorus goes like this:

"If you're white, you're alright.

If you're brown, stick around.

But if you black, get back get back get back."

I guess now if you're brown you can't stick around.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] dont get me wrong right wing populism is on the rise and it is worrying especially with those who spread hateful bile and then claim its just "trolling" and provocation like Milo does. he claims Muslim families in the U.K think that sexual abuse of young girls and gang rape is a cultural norm i think aspects of the left wing establishment also hasnt helped by covering up certain things under the guise of political correctness. The U.K has a long trend and established trend of democracy its the most resistant country to fascism. The same with the U.S although Trump is an authoritarian for sure and is worrying the way he wants to stifle criticism. The Nazis are drilled into us so much that for them to return would take something fantastical. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt challenged the excesses of right wing populism.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] dont get me wrong right wing populism is on the rise and it is worrying especially with those who spread hateful bile and then claim its just "trolling" and provocation like Milo does. he claims Muslim families in the U.K think that sexual abuse of young girls and gang rape is a cultural norm i think aspects of the left wing establishment also hasnt helped by covering up certain things under the guise of political correctness. The U.K has a long trend and established trend of democracy its the most resistant country to fascism. The same with the U.S although Trump is an authoritarian for sure and is worrying the way he wants to stifle criticism. The Nazis are drilled into us so much that for them to return would take something fantastical. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt challenged the excesses of right wing populism.

That's ironic since he's just been dropped from the American Conservative Political Action Conference where Trump is due to speak on Friday because it's emerged he endorsed gay sex between an adult and a 13 year old boy. His book deal's been cancelled as well.

 

[Slog]

I love stories like this, anything which portrays the Americans as a bunch of Tea Party rednecks always makes Britain look far more civilised in all the ways that really matter. You can only feel sympathy for the Pakistani Muslims living in the US, most of them probably walk around wearing 'I heart Donald Trump' t-shirts and waving silly US flags just to avoid being abused in the streets.

No wonder the guy in the picture is wearing a broad smile on his face, he's probably thinking the same thing.

pretty sad post that you are taking enjoyment out of someone's misery just to get some imaginary one-up. Downright disgusting if you ask me..

If British Pakistanis as a community focused more on themselves and strived to get the world class education and employment opportunities which a first world country like UK offers, they could actually help themselves and may not need to scour for other people's sad stories for their own happiness. Maybe then they could compete with the Pakistani American community on educational and economic indicators rather than ending near the bottom of the pile on most metrics

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

pretty sad post that you are taking enjoyment out of someone's misery just to get some imaginary one-up. Downright disgusting if you ask me..

If British Pakistanis as a community focused more on themselves and strived to get the world class education and employment opportunities which a first world country like UK offers, they could actually help themselves and may not need to scour for other people's sad stories for their own happiness. Maybe then they could compete with the Pakistani American community on educational and economic indicators rather than ending near the bottom of the pile on most metrics

That comment was made in jest but I guess these are sensitive times so perhaps you guys across the pond have lost your sense of humour. I wouldn't worry about it, Trump will probably be gone before his term is up, then the American Pakistanis can hold their heads up high again. At least in the more cosmopolitan areas.

 

[Usman]

For many years I've never had any negative experiences going in and out of European countries. There was one time however when we had our annual company conference in Spain. About 10 of us were on a separate flight to the other main groups. I was the only 'non white' in the group. Just like your experience in Germany, all of my colleagues were allowed through customs without being stopped, whereas I was 'randomly' picked out and had every item in my luggage examined.

At the rate which attitudes are changing, I worry about my kids and the problems they may face when they grow up and start travelling around Europe in similar circumstances to myself.

Yep the situation is not good. I think one of the major reasons for all of this is because of what's going on in Syria - with liberal politicians scared of what happened to the reputations of Blair and Bush, they have taken a hands off approach to Syria, with the result that hundreds and hundreds of thousands have been killed and millions have fled to the west, scared for their lives. For a while, all the headlines were about the influx of large numbers of immigrants. That has allowed the far right to play on people's fears. So by not intervening in Syria, liberal politicians may have done even more damage to themselves.

 

[Yossarian]

Yep the situation is not good. I think one of the major reasons for all of this is because of what's going on in Syria - with liberal politicians scared of what happened to the reputations of Blair and Bush, they have taken a hands off approach to Syria, with the result that hundreds and hundreds of thousands have been killed and millions have fled to the west, scared for their lives. For a while, all the headlines were about the influx of large numbers of immigrants. That has allowed the far right to play on people's fears. So by not intervening in Syria, liberal politicians may have done even more damage to themselves.

This is where I disagree with you. The uprisings such as the one in Syria don't take place 'spontaneously' by the 'locals rising up'. They are orchestrated and planned. And carefully coordinated so as to create violent and deadly confrontations between the demonstrators and the regimes security forces, thereby ensuring casualties amongst the demonstrators, footage of which is then beamed around the world to garner support and sympathy, and justification for outside involvement and regime change in the guise of humanitarian intervention.

The only surprising thing was that the whole plan was not put into action years earlier. And of course the fact that those orchestrating it all didn't forsee the security vacuum created, due to the chaos and weakening of the Assad regime, being filled with the rise of Isis.

Libya is another similar example of a 'spontaneous uprising'

 

[ExpressPacer]

pretty sad post that you are taking enjoyment out of someone's misery just to get some imaginary one-up. Downright disgusting if you ask me..

If British Pakistanis as a community focused more on themselves and strived to get the world class education and employment opportunities which a first world country like UK offers, they could actually help themselves and may not need to scour for other people's sad stories for their own happiness. Maybe then they could compete with the Pakistani American community on educational and economic indicators rather than ending near the bottom of the pile on most metrics

Not possible. Most Pakistani immigrants in the UK were basically illiterate Mirpuri's who made it to Great Britain on the back of the Govt. sending them and never really plan for the long term. American immigrants were always hard working people who put emphasis on education right from the start and even more so when getting used to the fast paced life of USA.

British Pakistani's are too spoiled. They have the comfort of a huge Pakistani community with the same, mostly semi-educated people to cater to through their small desi restaurants or businesses like boutiques providing women with Pakistani clothes.

The youth are an even funnier story. They've formed their own cult. Like a secret society. They hate the white Brits. Have their own version of the British accent which is an insult to English - primarily based on slang and matching Jamaican English. Honestly a stain on Pakistani's because this is most definitely not what Pakistani's are like. These are just BBCD's. What makes it worse is that despite living in the Western world, most British Pakistani's I have come across have super extreme views regarding religion and are very ...backward. I don't know if that's the right word but they're very influenced by the Wahabbi ideologies which scream out terrorism. No wonder Britain has more people joining ISIS compared to Pakistan.

 

[Yossarian]

Not possible. Most Pakistani immigrants in the UK were basically illiterate Mirpuri's who made it to Great Britain on the back of the Govt. sending them and never really plan for the long term. American immigrants were always hard working people who put emphasis on education right from the start and even more so when getting used to the fast paced life of USA.
.

Yet again the old rubbish being spouted by those completely ignorant of the background and demographics of those first groups of Pakistanis who went to the UK as opposed to those who went to the USA.

Here, read this, it might help you to understand:

OK, let me try and explain.

As mentioned previously, the Pakistanis came to work as manual labourers in the cotton & woollen mills of the North and the heavy industries of the Midlands. So just like most newly arrived, uneducated immigrants, they performed the worst and lowest paid jobs. To make matters worse, apart from feeding and looking after themselves, they also needed to send the little money they had back to support their families back home.

Result? They congregated together, living in the cheapest and most deprived parts of the twon and cities. As newcomers came, they too gravitated towards the same areas. Then they brought their families to live with them - again in the same areas. They formed ghettos.

When the factories closed en mass and caused massive unemployment, those living in these ghettos were the worst off - for all the reasons explained earlier.

But, those that did manage to improve their lot, acquire decent education / good jobs / acquire a little bit of wealth, they started to move out and disperse into the more upmarket suburbs, with better schooling, better facilities, lower unemployment etc. You will find that these British Pakistanis, by and large, are just as integrated as their American counterparts (- having lived/worked in the States for a few years, and now living in one such area, I can verify this personally).

As for the American Pakistanis, coming from middle class/ wealthier / educated backgrounds (as students, doctors, engineers etc), their starting point in the States was very similar to those British Pakistanis who had managed to move out of the deprived inner city areas. Not only that, but they had no need to send money back to support their wealthy middle class families back home. meaning that they could afford better housing, live in better areas with better schooling etc. You get the picture.

It's not easy as you may think. Living in a deprived area means worst schools, fewer jobs, higher crime rates - and even organisations like Banks and Insurance companies (say for insuring your car - which is compulsory in the UK otherwise you can't drive the car on a public road) work against you by increasing their rates and/or denying you loans and refusing to insure you.

Let me give you an example of a current situation which does not even involve someone living in a deprived area.

Because of the large discrepency of house prices in the UK between London & the South east versus the North, if a family man living in the North, with a good job and a decent house in a good neighbourhood, is made redundant but is offered a new job in London / the South-East (even with a larger salary), he will most likely turn it down.

Why? You may ask.

The reason being that the price he will obtain for selling his big family house in the North, will unlikely be enough for a flat/house half the size in a deprived area of London ie Not large enough for him and his family to live in. Thus he's stuck in the North unless he can get a mega increase in his salary for relocating which will enable him to take on a much larger mortgage for a larger house in a decent area of London.

Now translate that to someone low paid or unemployed living in a deprived inner city area of a Northern town trying to move to the suburbs with better housing, better facilities, better schools, better prospects for employment. Basically, he's stuck in his ghetto, that of the British Pakistani community containing none other than British Pakistanis, with all the aforementioned probems. And so the circle continues for his children. (That's not to say that every now and then some, like my parents, manage to break out of that circle and move to better areas where 'they can integrate')

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...e-UK-has-failed-Discuss&p=9046539#post9046539

Incidentally, my father (who first went to the UK) was neither illiterate nor was he a Mirpuri. He was an educated Punjabi from a village in the district of Lyallpur (Faisalabad).

 

[ExpressPacer]

Yet again the old rubbish being spouted by those completely ignorant of the background and demographics of those first groups of Pakistanis who went to the UK as opposed to those who went to the USA.

Here, read this, it might help you to understand:



http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...e-UK-has-failed-Discuss&p=9046539#post9046539

Incidentally, my father (who first went to the UK) was neither illiterate nor was he a Mirpuri. He was an educated Punjabi from a village in the district of Lyallpur (Faisalabad).

Very lengthy and detailed post and I enjoyed reading what you said and may even have grown a soft side for the British Pakistani's but how do you explain the extremism? You're not going to deny it, are you? That has nothing to do with living in deprived areas or even in upscale parts of the city.

I'm not saying this for you, I don't even know what religion you follow but 90% of the British Muslims I've met have shown me heights of religious fanaticism. They hate the whites, they judge you for not wearing a Hijab, they hate Shia's, they have a grudge against people living in Pakistan because they're too modern, they judge you for not praying and it goes on and on.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Very lengthy and detailed post and I enjoyed reading what you said and may even have grown a soft side for the British Pakistani's but how do you explain the extremism? You're not going to deny it, are you? That has nothing to do with living in deprived areas or even in upscale parts of the city.

I'm not saying this for you, I don't even know what religion you follow but 90% of the British Muslims I've met have shown me heights of religious fanaticism. They hate the whites, they judge you for not wearing a Hijab, they hate Shia's, they have a grudge against people living in Pakistan because they're too modern, they judge you for not praying and it goes on and on.

If you know British Pakistanis so well, why would you develop a soft side for them based on a random post on the internet? Especially if they hate whites, Shias, women and modern life as per your knowledgeable claim.

You and your friend Moiza are coming off as totally ignorant and offensive. At least when I was taking the mick out of US Pakistanis I was doing it tongue in cheek, I can't detect any humour in your posts, just fear and hysteria.

That's not to say that there aren't problem areas in some parts of Britain with insular Pakistanis, especially those who are by nature a bit rough and ready. But they tend to live adjacent to the white version of the same sort and usually have the same problems. Low level crime mostly, generally poorly maintained neighbourhoods and somewhat backward mentality. At least they aren't shooting each other on street corners like they do in your beloved US. Yes, I've seen The Wire.

 

[ExpressPacer]

If you know British Pakistanis so well, why would you develop a soft side for them based on a random post on the internet? Especially if they hate whites, Shias, women and modern life as per your knowledgeable claim.

You and your friend Moiza are coming off as totally ignorant and offensive. At least when I was taking the mick out of US Pakistanis I was doing it tongue in cheek, I can't detect any humour in your posts, just fear and hysteria.

That's not to say that there aren't problem areas in some parts of Britain with insular Pakistanis, especially those who are by nature a bit rough and ready. But they tend to live adjacent to the white version of the same sort and usually have the same problems. Low level crime mostly, generally poorly maintained neighbourhoods and somewhat backward mentality. At least they aren't shooting each other on street corners like they do in your beloved US. Yes, I've seen The Wire.

You, my friend are the perfect example of what we call a blind patriot. I didn't think I said anything you'd take so personally. I'm not posing any demographics, any statistics or facts. This is just my personal experience. And the fact that there's more people joining ISIS from the UK compared to USA or even Pakistan is enough proof what I said about extremism. Again, you don't need to come from a privileged and educated background to know that you're not supposed to kill innocent people.

 

[Yossarian]

Very lengthy and detailed post and I enjoyed reading what you said and may even have grown a soft side for the British Pakistani's but how do you explain the extremism? You're not going to deny it, are you? That has nothing to do with living in deprived areas or even in upscale parts of the city.

I'm not saying this for you, I don't even know what religion you follow but 90% of the British Muslims I've met have shown me heights of religious fanaticism. They hate the whites, they judge you for not wearing a Hijab, they hate Shia's, they have a grudge against people living in Pakistan because they're too modern, they judge you for not praying and it goes on and on.

If 90% of the British Muslims you've met have shown you heights of religious fanaticism, then all I can say is perhaps you ventured into the wrong neighbourhood.

The city I lived in when working in the States is amongst the wealthiest and most cosmopolitan cities in the USA. When I first moved there with my family, I bought my house in a reasonably well off neighbourhood (having sold my house in a middle class suburb on the outskirts of London - and this at a time when the £ to $ rate was at it's peak - almost $2 to the £).

When looking for a halal meat shop, a taxi driver gave me the address of one in another neighbourhood. It was only a few miles away, but it was like entering the slums in the worst parts of Soweto during Apartheid. The shop door was only remotely opened by the shopkeeper after he had checked out the incoming customers on the cctv. The only Pakistani Americans I met during the first 3 months were taxi drivers or shopkeepers similar to the one mentioned.

Your comment re-judging British citizens of Pakistani origin based upon the "90% of Pakistanis" that you've met would be the equivalent of me judging all Pakistani Americans on the basis of those I met during my first 3 months in the States.

 

[Musakhel]

Not possible. Most Pakistani immigrants in the UK were basically illiterate Mirpuri's who made it to Great Britain on the back of the Govt. sending them and never really plan for the long term. American immigrants were always hard working people who put emphasis on education right from the start and even more so when getting used to the fast paced life of USA.

British Pakistani's are too spoiled. They have the comfort of a huge Pakistani community with the same, mostly semi-educated people to cater to through their small desi restaurants or businesses like boutiques providing women with Pakistani clothes.

The youth are an even funnier story. They've formed their own cult. Like a secret society. They hate the white Brits. Have their own version of the British accent which is an insult to English - primarily based on slang and matching Jamaican English. Honestly a stain on Pakistani's because this is most definitely not what Pakistani's are like. These are just BBCD's. What makes it worse is that despite living in the Western world, most British Pakistani's I have come across have super extreme views regarding religion and are very ...backward. I don't know if that's the right word but they're very influenced by the Wahabbi ideologies which scream out terrorism. No wonder Britain has more people joining ISIS compared to Pakistan.

religion doesn't impede on socio-economic progress otherwise the religious jews and religious muslim Gujaratis wouldn't be so successful, of course a lack of entrepreneurial culture is one factor but many British Pakistanis rather just live off the state rather than improve their condition also the whole thing with bringing over a spouse who will always struggle to find a professional job with their village background and skill level doesn't help apart from preserving 'culture' if it is worth preserving in the first place.

 

[Pakistanian]

I got some fam in england, not all of 'em are fobs